1 Anyone with an IQ above room temp (to quote a famous SoCal warrior G.S. Patton) can see that the war on terror is very effective. Of course that means no one in the MSM can see it. We have a long way to go, but we've covered a lot of ground already. Not one person in Americahas been hurt by a MuslimFascists in the last three years. *VERY SUCCESSFUL* No property destroyed by MuslimFascists in the same time period. Again *VERY SUCCESSFUL*
Rod Stanton
Cerritos

2 Nice post, hotshot.

3 Coors is NOT pisswater!!!

4 Thanks for your comments guys. I am having a blast here. (Thank you Rusty!)

Jake, sorry to break the news.

5 WHY WAS THE TARGETED ASSASSINATION OF IAIN HOOK A TOP BRITISH UN OFFICIAL BY THE ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCE COVERED UP?


by Dr. Jack Shepard

WHY WAS THE TARGETED ASSASSINATION OF IAIN HOOK A TOP BRITISH UN OFFICIAL BY THE ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCE COVERED UP BY PRIME MINISTER TONY BLAIR?


Dr. Jack Shepard asks,
“ Why was the Targeted Assassination of Iain Hook a top British UN official by the Israeli Defense Force covered up by prime Minister Tony Blair?”

Excerpts published in the Syria Times political section on June 30, 2003
by Dr. Jack Shepard.

Over six months ago Prime Minister Tony Blair; knew all the facts that an Israeli Army Sniper was ordered to trap and later in the day assassinate Iain Hook, a former paratrooper from Felixstowe who was employed by crown Agents and paid for by the British Department for International Development to head the UN project to reconstruct the Jenin Refugee Camp as a warning to the Secretary General Kofi Annan.

Well aware of the facts that many other UN staff members both International and Palestinian alike have been verbally abused, stripped, beaten, shot at and killed by Israeli soldiers; including attacks on UN ambulances, Medical Personnel, UNWRA schools, Health Clinics and Offices have been hit by bombs, rockets, tank shells and gunfire by Israel soldiers endangering the lives of UN staff, This was written in an open letter by the UN International Staff working in the Palestinian Occupied Territories called “OPT: UN Staff call for Justice”

“visit the UNWAR web site”–
www.reliefweb.int
especially pages:

1)
www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsfc7ca0eaf6c79faae852567af003c69...?
OpenDocument

2) www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/c7ca0eaf6c79faae852567af003c6...?
OpenDocument

3) www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/c7ca0eaf6c79faae852567af003c6...?
OpenDocument

4)
www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/c7ca0eaf6c79faae852567af003c6...?
OpenDocument

5) www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/c7ca0eaf6c79faae852567af003c6...?


Prime Minister Tony Blair continues to cover-up these facts and even remains silent to his knowledge of Intelligence reports convening the planning and later the Assassination of a Fellow British UN Staffer who was trapped for hours in his UN Official Compound before he was shot in the back on Nov. 22, 2002. Because Mr. Hook’s Assassination was of profound importance, Mr. Blair covered-up Mr. Hook’s assassination because it might compromise his propaganda blitz for the urgency of war Iraq and MORE IMPORTANT weaken his position in dealing with the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.

At the time even the Head Rabbi of England said the policies of the Ariel Sharon Government in Israel toward UN staff and the Palestinian people made him feel uncomfortable being a Jew.

According to an article published in the Guardian; Wednesday May 7, 2003 written by Chris Mc Greal from Jerusalem ; No one believed the Israeli story that the sniper thought Iain was holding a gun, said one UN official close to the investigation. This soldier was a trained commando. He had a sights that magnified at least three times and he was only 20 meters (65ft) away. What really concerns us is the lack of an apology or remorse. The message that goes out to every Israeli soldier is that it is OK to kill the UN.

During my 7 month investigation into the murder of Iain Hook I was very fortunate to interview UN staff members that were actually living and working with Iain Hook up until his assassination and conducted several telephone interviews with Paul Mc Cann; the UNWRA spokesperson concerned with the Palestinian occupied territories.

I was told while some members of the UN staff were in Rome, Italy; Iain Hook one night after dinner at their hotel expressed to his UN staff members that he was very concerned for his and their safety after a very hostile man on a motorcycle drove up to him (Iain Hook), several weeks before his murder saying to him that; “We want you to send a message to that Fucking Nigger; Kofi Annan and you will know when we send it.”

This confirms that Iain Hook’s murder was no accident but a well planned assassination organized by the Israeli defense force to send a direct message to the UN. One must assume that this planned assassination included very high level officials in the present Israeli Government of Ariel Sharon because of the extent of the cover-up.

Until Iain Hook’s murderer; the Israeli commando sniper is bought to justice we will not know the extent of the collaboration of Mr. hook’s assassination. Mr. Hook’s Assassination operation included a major Israeli incursion into the Jenin Refugee Camp, surrounding the Jenin UN Office Compound for almost 4 hours; WHY?; blocking of the entrance so Mr. Hook and his staff were literally trapped in their compound, when Paul Wolstenholme and Mr. hook tried to leave their UN Compound through the front entrance a very powerful compression grenade was used to block their exit literally throwing Paul Wolstenholme back several meters and most important after the shooting of Mr. hook, the British UN manger of the UN Office Compound, an emergency ambulance was prevented from reaching Iain Hook by the Israeli defense Force at the front entrance to the UN Compound.

These same UN staff members living and working with Iain hook in the Jenin described the events of Mr. Hook’s murder very clearly to me. From about 9.30 AM in the morning until his assassination approximately 13.30; 2 sharp shooters had taken control of 2 apartments on the top of 2 apartment buildings situated to the right and left of the entrance to the UNWRA compound and for hours laser beams could be seen in the dust; often on Iain Hook’s shoulders. WHY?

It was very obvious to Mr. Hook’s colleagues that the Israeli Army Commando after over 3 hours of watching Iain Hook 54, who was tall with ginger hair, that the sniper using a powerful aiming sight which gave him a very close look at his victim knew that he was assassinating Iain Hook, a British Subject who headed the Jenin reconstruction project.

The spokesperson concerning the Palestinian Occupied territories, when I asked him about the very powerful compression grenade used around 12.00 to block Iain Hook’s and Paul Wolstensolme’s exit from the front entrance of the Jenin UN Compound; he was very surprised that this very important event was not included in Chris Mc Greal’s May 7, 2003– article in the Guardian; “Why was an unarmed Briton shot in the back?”

The Israeli Defense Force used this very powerful compression grenade to literally trap Iain Hook in his UN compound until the Israeli Sniper a well trained Army Commando using his magnified sight shot Iain Hook in the back ( a tactic the Israeli Defense Force has often used in the last years to send a sign as a warning to others– like a signature of assassination ) as he was walking away from the sniper in the direction of the entrance to the UN office compound only a few meters from where Paul Wolstensolme was sitting.

Iain Hook was shot in the back, not by accident but as a warning to other UN staff. Iain’s assassin used one fast-high velocity hard point bullet that entered Iain Hook’s upper right shoulder and exited in two fragments either side of Iain Hook’s belly button to shoot him at approximately 13.30, November 22, 2002.

The Guardian newspaper article written by Chris mc Greal published on May 7, 2003
entitled, “Why was an unarmed Briton shot in the back?" stated that, the day after the Israeli Commando Sniper shot Mr. hook as he stood in the UN Compound in the Jenin Refugee last Nov. 22, 2002. Israel promised Mr. straw a full accounting of the killing. Now Israel says its inquiry has been put aside.

Today Mr. Hook’s colleagues accuse Israel of covering up “ a cold-blooded murder” and the Britain and the United Nations of complicity by quietly trying to bury the truth to avoid a Political Confrontation with Israel. These are the words of 64 United Nation Foreign Staff Members working in the Palestinian Territories used in their signed open letter which blamed the Israeli army for the “cold-blooded– murder” of Mr. Hook, these are not words that my investigation proved. My investigation only confirmed what 64 United Nations Foreign colleagues of Iain Hook said.

Much of the pressure for a full account of Mr. Hook’s death came from other UN Foreign staff members working in the occupied Palestinian territories. These brave 64 UN Foreign staff members working in the occupied Palestinian Territories signed an open Letter which blamed the Israeli Army for Mr. Hook’s death and called for an end to what it described as the Israeli military refusal to respect the most elementary standards of humanity.

The Guardian Newspaper article continued that the United Nations inquiry was carried out by a former member of the United States Naval Intelligence Branch; John Logan. John Logan was quoted by Chris Mc Greal in his Guardian Newspaper article that John Logan stated to him, that he cut short his investigation because he had been threatened; you can contact the archives of the Guardian Newspaper for a copy of Chris Mc Greal’s May 7, 2003 article; “Why was an unarmed Briton shot in the back?”

You can contact the Director General of the UNRWA, by visiting their web site at
www.reliefweb.int to get contact emails and telephone numbers to request a copy of the “OPT:UN Staff call for Justice” an open letter posted and signed by 64 UN Foreign Staff. Their open letter includes these statements, “ We strongly request that the Israeli Government will bring those responsible for Iain’s killing to justice. Only the most lawless societies allow gunman in uniform the impunity to kill aid workers without fear of punishment.” Their open letter continues, “ UN staff– international and Palestinian alike– have been verbally abused, stripped, beaten, shot and killed by Israeli soldiers. Tragically Iain Hook was not the first person working with the UN to die at the hands of the IDF this year. In March, Kamal Hamdan was shot and killed while traveling in a clearly marked UNRWA ambulance in the West Bank. In April, Huni Amer died in Israeli military custody in Jenin after, according to witnesses, receiving a brutal beating by the soldiers at the time of his arrest. From its silence, we presume the Israeli authorities have ignored UN requests for an investigation and report of these incidents, and have not seen fit to take any disciplinary action against the soldiers involved. To us, this seems to confirm a pattern of utter contempt on the part of the Israeli army for the lost lives of these men, the safety of UN staff or minimum standards imposed by international law which should protect UN staff and other humanitarian workers. The official military spokesperson’s statement on the initial investigation into Iain’s killing ...contradicts eyewitness accounts of our colleagues in Jenin and information relayed by Iain to the UNRWA Field Office just prior to his death. The most charitable characterization one can make of the Official Israeli Military Spokesperson’s statement is that it lacks any credibility... We strongly request that the Israeli Government will bring those responsible for Iain’s killing promptly to justice. Only the MOST LAWLESS SOCIETIES ALLOW GUNMEN IN UNIFORM THE IMPUNITY TO KILL AID WORKERS WITHOUT FEAR OF PUNISHMENT. In these tragic circumstances, rather than easily uttered regrets, we expect the Israeli Government take the necessary steps to stop the harassment, beating and killing of UN staff. As international staff members, we hope and expect to return alive to our own countries and families after our work here ( in the Palestinian Occupied Territories) is done.”

These words written and sign by 64 UN foreign staff and colleagues of Iain Hook in their open letter, “OPT: UN staff call for justice” are their words not mine. The UN staff working with Iain Hook at the time of his murder only confirm the facts of my investigation that the Murder of Iain Hook was not an accident but a well planned Targeted Assassination by the IDF to send a warning to Secretary General Kofi Annan.

A bellicose former General Sharon has always been a controversial figure, headstrong, volatile and very violent.

You Mr. Tony Blair as Prime Minister by continuing to cover-up the assassination of Iain Hook and not even making public the facts as the UN staff themselves say that, “ UN staff-International and Palestinian alike– have been verbally abused, stripped, beaten, shot at and killed by Israeli Soldiers” only help the Government of Ariel Sharon to continue it’s volatile and violent policies which are THE ROOT CAUSE THAT motivated the Terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center;–on Sept. 11 and continue to terrorize the world.

The War on Terrorism can only be won when we have the States of Israel and Palestinian living side by side in Peace, President Bush’s vision.

The simple truth is it is the policies of Ariel Sharon’s Government that condones that an Israeli Commando Sniper can even Target and Assassinate Iain Hook a UN British Aid Worker, without even a criticism from Prime Minister Tony Blair and the Policies of the Sharon Government that condones the killings and crushing of hundreds, soon thousands of innocent Palestinians men, women, and children has lead to such a feeling of injustice in the Muslim World that out of revenge for this injustice and hopeless caused Ariel Sharon’s very violent Policies toward Palestinians created the environment where terrorists began their call for their Holy War out of desperation.

The continuation of Ariel Sharon’s very violent out of control policies toward the Palestinian civilians impedes World Peace. The World will never have peace unless these policies of Ariel Sharon’s Government targeted assassinations of UN staff and Palestinians people and his indiscriminate murder of Palestinians civilians are exposed and immediately stopped.

Prime Minister Tony Blair continues to cover-up Ariel Sharon’s very violent policies ; and his lack of criticism of the policies of the Ariel Sharon Government, shows his complicity and has caused the world crisis we have today. This complicity makes peace in the Middle East impossible.

Being the history of Tony Blair’s looking the other way concerning the unfair situation and suffering of the Palestinian People; only President George W. Bush is capable to bring peace to the World by his planned recognized of Palestine and Israel living side by side in Peace.

I Thank God; that President George W. Bush was reelected President of the United States. Now President Bush is capable implementing his greater Middle East Policy of Israel and Palestine living side by side in Peace.

President Bush can now demand that The Government of Ariel Sharon immediately change course because it is increasingly evident that the Present Policies of Ariel Sharon’s Government toward the Palestinian People are not supported by the majority of the Israeli citizens and the vast majority ( almost 100%) of the Countries in the World.

The present policies of Ariel Sharon Government have proved to be a vast failure and a very traumatic one which have drawn the world in to almost a Civil War because of his policies of injustice and unfairness in his treatment of the Palestinian people.

Ariel Sharon’s abuses of the Palestinian People and his refusal to discuss the creation of Palestine leaves President George W. Bush no choice but dictate and impose his solution to the Middle East Crisis cause by Ariel Sharon Policies.

The Arab disaffection with the unfair situation started in Palestine and now is spreading through out the world. The World Leaders and President George W. Bush can not wait any longer for the refusal of the Ariel Sharon Government to listen. The incoherence of the policies of the Sharon Government lack clearly defined objectives and is deeply disquieting to majority of Israeli citizens and world leaders.

It is now immediately necessary the systematic use of involuntary imposed pressure on the Ariel Sharon Government to immediate abandon his occupation of the Palestinian Territories and the immediate creation of Palestine, even with a period of 5 years for Palestine and Israel to work out all the details of border etc.

Once the State of Palestine is recognized by the United Nations and is even imposed on Israel and the Israeli Defense Force returns to Israel then and only then will the World be back on the road to Peace. The Policies of the Sharon Government will no longer hold the whole hostage.

Once Palestine is recognized the War on Terrorism will be well on it’s way to being won through Peace because it is impossible to be won through continued violence. The recognition of Palestine will be accepted with such happiness throughout the world that peace will be possible in Iraq very quickly; and our American Coalition forces can very soon be returning home.

President George W. Bush greatest coup, the immediate recognition of Palestine will persuade the Arab World; that American is your friend and partner in Peace. After almost 60 years it has to be accepted that Israeli’s and Palestinians are incapable of talking let allow making Peace.

The recognition of Palestine by the Leaders of the World lead by President Bush has to be imposed on both the Israeli’s and Palestinians. This one act will establish strategic links between the leaders of the Arab world and American. Our American Government, our American People and our American Soldiers will never be held responsible for the policies of Ariel Sharon’s Government ever again. By President Bush leading the Leaders of the World in imposing the recognition of Palestine on Israel; President Bush will create a sound partnership between Israel and Palestine that they have not and will never be able to do by themselves as history has proven.

Complicity makes peace in the Middle East impossible. When UN staff call for justice and protection they are not being anti-Semitic; they just wish to have a Jewish Israeli Government that respects human life where peace is possible. Until the leaders of the world learn from these brave UN staffers who work in the Occupied Territories of Palestine that to criticize the policies of the Government of Ariel Sharon is not to be called anti-Semitic.

It is only to criticize Ariel Sharon because they know that unless Sharon changes his policies, we will never have world peace. There are many other Jewish leaders in Israel who want peace, who are praying for peace. Who would never cover-up or support the out of control Policies of Ariel Sharon’s Government which allows gunmen in uniform the impunity to kill United Nation aid workers like Iain Hook or allow Israeli soldiers to kill Palestinian United Nation Employees like Husni Amer who died in Israeli custody in Jenin after receiving a brutal beating by several Israeli soldiers at the time of his arrest.

The world leaders must learn from the brave UN staffers that criticizing the killing and assassinating of UN aid workers and hundreds of Palestinians is not anti-Semitic but to not criticize this criminal behavior is complicity.

Dr. Jack Shepard is a past American Service Officer and Middle East Specialist. Dr. Shepard has had articles published in both Military and Civilian Newspapers over the past 34 years.

www.shepardusgov.com

www.flickr.com/photos/dr_jack_shepard/

dr-jack-shepard-peace-maker.blogspot.com/

6 WHY WAS THE TARGETED ASSASSINATION OF IAIN HOOK A TOP BRITISH UN OFFICIAL BY THE ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCE COVERED UP?

Well Dr. Jack, I have it on good authority (Jewish/Neocon Cabal Daily Newsletter) that we knocked off Hook because he was too close to the truth.

Nothing personal, just business.

Thanks for writing.

7 Next time you wish to write a book do it. Maybe we'll buy it, maybe we won't. But please put it where it belongs. In a book store.

8 Paranoia?

1 Colorado bad? Try an old Mississippi farmer in a 20 year old pickup truck.

1 Pimp My Jawa?

2 Hey all you need is a number on the side and they will be sand crawler races on tatoine and just imagine what its like in the pit stop?

3 Hey, it seems to me that you finally getting the hang of Rusty's work.
Stick around; you're doing allright.

Cindy

4 Rusty was lucky to have you Chad. Everyone else he tried to also guest host (and I even said I would) all bailed on him; you're the only one that didn't and I give you a lot of credit for working so hard. If you need help - hollah!!

Cindy

5 Damn right! Cranky is just, well, cranky. Though I love the jawas.

6 You're doing fine, Chad! Screw em if they can't take a joke! I'm just a stone's throw away in the Metroplex...oh, by the way, did you hear that they are NOT going to say Metroplex anymore when they refer to the D/FW area? What the hell is THAT all about?

arrrgggh.

7 Thanks for the kind words. And yes, Chad is da bomb. I was just trying to offset his quality with a little, um, not-quality.

1 Those aren't just rubber bands. They are weapons of class disruption.

2 oh damn (hi rusty) how'd i end up here ? was looking for hot star wars chick pundits.

3 Pretty soon they'll be banning pencils.

4 What's the matter? Teachers can't control their students anymore? There are a lot more important things in this world than a school debate over rubbing bands. How ludicrious.

Cindy

5 Every once in awhile, it's nice to read "stupid news."
Good Job to you and Brian.

Cindy

1 The Chicken Roaster? I put Festivus second only to The Bizarro Jerry (the one where Jerry dates man hands).

2 All good episodes...the best, though, is clearly the one where Kramer finds the old Merv Griffin set and puts it up in his apartment.

That, or the "Serenity Now!" episode.

3 Bah! Now you both are just being fusilli.

1 I know, sigh. I'm a native New Yawker myself, and my friends and family STILL think we're breaking in horses and milking the cows!

Either that, or they think that all the women are like Sue Ellen and all the men like J.R.!!

2 Anti-Texan Bigotry is everywhere. My son said something with a Southern accent last night and then said that there's my Texas slang. I wanted to kick him. He heard it on a commercial.

Most irritating it is!

3 True, true! My wife is from a small town in East Texas, and has a much heavier accent than I, who grew up in a city in Central Texas. She literally did have an oil well in her back yard, but there were none where I grew up. I wasn't part of the FFA or owned a huge belt buckle, wore boots or even owned a cowboy hat. But I love Texas, I love the Texas spirit, and, well, I love Texas! I noticed that there are very few other states where the people love their state and want to settle there, heck most want to get out. However most Texans can't get enough, of well, Texas!


Craig

(Only seven references to Texas in this post.)

4 Oh, and yeah, I have to admit I hate Austin, so it is fitting that MTV picked it, since I also hate MTV (Sixth Street, that it is cool though).

Craig

(Disclaimer : Writer graduated from Texas A&M)

5 I don't mind Austin because it is a fun town, but it's the Liberal part of Texas. Of course there's nothing wrong with that, but when you spent five years out in Lubbock, TX (city with the most churches per capita in the U.S.) Austin is like another world.

The problem with the media elite ragging on Texas is that they are just jealous we can use the phrases Texas-sized, ya'll and y'ant to without hesitation or embarassment. When they use it they sound like an outsider trying to either fit in or poke fun.

Actually, I don't think I've ever used two of those three phrases out of a joking context.

6 "Texas? Only steers and queers come from Texas"

Gunnery Sgt. Hartman, from Full Metal Jacket

Directions to get to Texas from North Carolina: Go west until you smell shit, go south until you step in it.

7 MTV? Do they have television in Texas?

8 People hate Texans for the same reason they hate Californians. We are too damn proud and love our states too damn much. That said the only good time I had in Texas was getting drunk after getting a speeding ticket at a bar in Odessa and watching cowboys, well basically watching their scrotums due to the tightness of their jeans, flip girls around. I wasn't impressed.

9 They don't even wanna go there with me.

10 Considering how many times I've heard Texans refer to the US as "Texas and the 49 lesser states", I'd advise you to be careful chucking rocks from your glass houses. There's an equal amount of evidence that Texans have an anti-unTexan bias.

11 Where is a better place to live?

12 Greyrooster:

I'd take my home state over Texas any day. As a matter of fact, I loved living here enough to give up a good job and a balmy climate to move back. I've been to Texas, I was underwhelmed.

13 Why has a post intended for humor turned into a state pissing contest? Lighten up people. Texans aren't your enemy. It's those damn North Dakotians!

14 What state would that be Brian?

15 Iggy,

I'm an Oregonian, and I have the webbed feet to prove it.

16 Brian B: Surely you must be kidding. I thought you guys were starving to death. Anyway, that's what Californians think. Why else would so many of you move south?
My thoughts. San Antone east is Okay. West Texas you can keep. I prefer green.
West Oregon is Okay. You can keep eastern Oregon. Taters, Onions and desert. Except for Farewell Bend which I find enchanting.
I guess Oregon is Okay. If anything is going on to make more than just making it.

17 On second thought the Williamette Valley is beautiful. Coos bay has great fishing. Bend Oregon was a great vacation place (haven't been their in years). Crater lake at dawn is fabulous. Port Orsford is neat when the fog is in. Medford is pretty and the trout fishing is unbelievable. Rouge River is one of a kind.
Have to rethink my previous post.

18 Greyrooster,

Yeah, the economy here sucks, but it's picking up. We could spend a whole thread on the reasons for that. If you're gonna make the economic health of a state the sole criterion for judgubg it,hell, I'd give Texas props over us in a heartbeat. But for natural beauty, it's hard to beat. And the cool thing is, except for maybe Hawaii, you can name any state in the Union and I'll show you part of Oregon that will remind you of it.

I prefer green too, which is why I love it here. There are parts of Eastern Oregon that are beautiful and fascinating. Like Paleontology? Try the John Day Fossil Beds. The Bend area has some kick-ass skiing, but it's considered Central Oregon, not Eastern. The Wallowa mountains in the northeast corner remind a lot of people of the alps, very sharp, steep, and craggy.

As for more than making it, that's subjective. We have a saying up here, "Pay me in scenery." From the freeway I frive on to and from work each day, you can see a mountain (The Three Sisters) that has snow year round. You can take a city bus to the McKenzie, one of the best fly fishing rivers in the country. a half hour drive puts me in the middle of the forest. And, most importantly, it's where I was born. For others, if you love your home state as much asI do mine, more power to you, and Irespec that, but don't pity me just because I'm not there. This is where i'm happy.

The Wilamette valley (where I live now) is OK, but it's too flat for my tastes. I grew up in roseburg, which is in souther Oregon, a more mountainous region (though we always called them "hills", I'm told they're mountains). You pegged it on the other descriptions, and I'd say that Crater Lake is the most beautiful spot inthe state. Amazing how blue the water is. Bend's become an even bigger vacation destination, especially if you ski or golf.

19 Dude is definitely more accurate the yeehaw in Austin.

Much more of a hippie culture here.

20 I've heard tales of how liberal Austin is. To be honestly self-critical, I have a hard time believing it could be as bad as Berkeley-on-the-Willamette, aka Eugene.

21 Well howdy,
coming from Toyah Texas (very small town), I can say that most Texans are really not the cowboys people say they are. As for me, I may really be a cowboy in my ranch but who cares? There are cowboys in Chily and Mexico, doesn't men they all say Yee Haa now does it? I do though ... but hey, everything's bigger in Texas and no state is friendlier and nicer! Y'all be good now y'hear?

22 Here is an interesting thought, my fiance is an Aussie. I fianlly took him to Texas (Dallas and all around the Austin area). He said he had never been anywhere that reminded him more of Australia- in attitude and places. (however we didnt get to hit the Rio Grande Valley...which I still think is in another dimension)

1 Yes and poor $zillionaire John Edwards will need some work.
Rod Stanton
Cerritos

2 One has to remember most of these frivolous lawsuits are pushed by attorneys on consignment. Hoping for a settlement by companies who don't wish the cost of defense. Right or wrong has little to do with it. Cost of defense, bad publicity, verses cost of settlement.
If consignment attorneys where held responsible for court courts of frivolous lawsuits it would slow up quick.

3 can I sue Wal-Mart for accepting a stolen and forged check on my account? They carded the MAN and even wrote HIS DL number on my check. Obviously it was a woman's check and it was just one check torn out of the book. It was for over $100.
***identity theft victim...

4 I want to sue walmart for a situation that took place to me that caused me to lose integrity in the community and then completely was found to be unsubstantiated. I do not have money to file a civil suit and do not know how to go about it.
How do you find consignment attorneys?
Can someone tell me how to go about suing walmart.

5 My son slashed both his wrist in a walmart super center. Had the knives not been in an isle my son would not have lost use of both his hands. He has depression issues. I was talking to a former walmart manager that said We indeed do have the right to sue walmart. The knives shouldnt have been out at all. any ideas?

6 I'm suing Wal-Mart for carding me when I handed them a signed Visa Debit Card. The refused the sale and evicted me from the store. I am asking for $30,000,000.00 . It is agaist the Visa policy to card customers that present a signed Visa Card. Other retailer don't ask for ID! Wal-mart will harrass every customer in an attempt to stop theft. It's downright wrong!

7 Well, it sounds like a bunch of spoiled children here. I cannot believe Hillberry vs. Wal-Mart is tring to sue Walmart for requesting id when using a VISA. I suppose the nimrod would rather lose the VISA and have someone else use it illegally at Walmart. They card you for your protection!!! Get off your drugs and use your brain to reason out reality!!!

8 "Well, it sounds like a bunch of spoiled children here. I cannot believe Hillberry vs. Wal-Mart is tring to sue Walmart for requesting id when using a VISA. I suppose the nimrod would rather lose the VISA and have someone else use it illegally at Walmart. They card you for your protection!!! Get off your drugs and use your brain to reason out reality!!!"

Posted by someone who calls him or herself reason-what a joke!

If you were reasonable, then you would expect big corporations to follow the same LAWS and CONTRACTS that the rest of us average citizens must follow. THe fact that you are so dumb as to not understand that it is VIsa that protects the customer against losses as their millions of commericals tell you. Walmart in asking for identification is only trying to protect themselves and to hell with the customers rights. I would advise you to check out some of the Visa commerical which pushes you to use their card for the sole selling point of NO ID REQUIRED as opposed to writing a check, which requires one.

Since you are a name caller, and one who calls names when they do not even know what they are talking about, leads me to believe that you are a flat out stupid a**. You probably believed Bush when he said Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, and worse, probably still believe it in light of the fact that there is now evidence showing that Bush didn't care if he had weapons, he was starting the war anyway!

Let me clue you in on something Trailer Park homie, if you looked at the documents on that website, like I did, you would see that Wal-Mart is pushing super hard with all the tricks to get the suit dismissed. I also wrote the guy and learned that Walmart was willing to settle if he would sign an agreement not to tell anyone else that it was illegal. He declined.

So YOU get off the drugs and appreciate that someone has the balls to fight for the rights of idiots like you, who frankly are't deserving of such rights to begin with. HAH, your so dumb that you give yours away.

I know that you probably do very little real reading, but look on google for a sample merchant agreement (like the one Walmart signed) and it is clear that retailers who card are breaking the contract. Now if you rent an apartment and break the lease, you get sued! Why shouldn't Walmart be treated just like every other lawbreaker?

9

Julie Doering Pierce..."The Walmart Way" Not Sam's Way...Walmart XIII AD
www.walmartassociatescentral.com

10 wal-mart didn't pay me last check after i was fired. it's been 2mths now still no check..what should i do?

11 Sue them.

12 I agree with you.

13 MY MOTHER WORKED AT WAL MART AND TRIPPED OVER A CO WORKER AROUND THE COUNTER ON THE FLOOR MEASURING SHELFS DURING THE RUSH HOUR. SHE BROKE BOTH HER ARMS, SHE JUST GET WORKMAN COMP, I THINK SHE SHOULD BE COMPENSATED FOR ALL THE TORTURE SHE HAS BEEN THROUGH. SHE CAN NOT EVEN BATH HER SELF, MY SIBLINGS AND MYSELF HAVE TAKEN TIME OFF WORK TO HELP HER, THIS IS GETTING HARD.AND WORKMAN COMP DONT EVEN COVER HER BILLS.

14 MY MOTHER WORKED AT WAL MART AND TRIPPED OVER A CO WORKER AROUND THE COUNTER ON THE FLOOR MEASURING SHELFS DURING THE RUSH HOUR. SHE BROKE BOTH HER ARMS, SHE JUST GETS WORKMAN COMP, I THINK SHE SHOULD BE COMPENSATED FOR ALL THE TORTURE SHE HAS BEEN THROUGH. SHE CAN NOT EVEN BATH HER SELF, MY SIBLINGS AND MYSELF HAVE TAKEN TIME OFF WORK TO HELP HER, THIS IS GETTING HARD.AND WORKMAN COMP DONT EVEN COVER HER BILLS.

1 I might be the only person to read this blog who knows someone from Shamokin Pa. It's a small world.

The french attacks on Santa are probably some french muzzie.
The Shamokin attacks, are just some drunk red neck, settling the score, because Santa banged his wife, on the hood of a pick up truck, behind the bar. I think Shamokin has one bar.

2 Those french teen thugs should be bureid alive under a mountian of coal until they ether learn a lession of smother they should be taken to the woodshed for a little aplication of disapline and screw the child care experts their a bunch of nambdy pambdies anyway

1 This is so simple - the holocaust involved the slaughtering of millions of people; this withdrawal involves merely the forced relocation of thousands.

If the settlers want to draw an analogy they should all wear Ben Gurion badges on their skullcaps in remembrance of the millions of Arabs who were forcibly relocated in the mid 20th Century!!!

2 This withdrawal and the systemic killing of millions of people (including millions of non-Jews) are two entirely different things.

I think it's shameful of the Israelis involved to try and stir up emotion using such a horrible event in history as their point of reference.

3 Same shit, different country. If you don't get your way bring up the Nazis and KKK.

4 Chad, I have a good answer for you but instead I'm putting it on wordpad so that I can work on this challenge you sent out to our readers.

Cindy

5 Dr. Jack Shepard says Vengeance is the Lord’s alone!

Not Israeli nor Palestinian!

To Kill to Glorify Nationalism–is Displeasing to Yahweh–Allah-God!

For Yahweh has seen how very bitter the affliction of Israel and Palestine is.

For it to end all Yahweh asks is both to do what he considers Right!

by Dr. Jack Shepard

I, Dr. Jack Shepard insists on God's role as Preordainer and Determiner of all that takes Place!.

All three major religions date back to Abraham and God speaking to him; are based on prophesy. Prophesy is simply God speaking to his seer as they were called in olden days or prophets as we call them today. By the nature of the prophetic function; the prophet is one who has an immediate experience of God, he is one to whom the holiness and will of God have been revealed; he contemplates present and future through the eyes of God; he is sent to remind men of their duty to God, and to bring them back to obedience and love.


Mohammad told his listeners that God has said to him, "I have created this family for Hell and their actions will be like unto those of the people of Hell."

To Adam God has said , "I have created this family for Paradise, and their actions will be like unto those of the people of Paradise."

Both the Prophet Mohammad and Adam taught even though man thinks he has control over his actions from the time of birth until his death it is God's role as preordainer and determiner of all that takes place and it is only the true believers who truly believe.

When the God created the world he wrote with a divine pen all that was, and all that will be as the Prophet Mohammad taught.

In the Old Testament we find the same quote in "The Prayer of Judith"-” O God, my God now hear this widow too; for you have made the past, and what is happening now, and what will follow. What is, what will be, you have planned; what has been, you designed.

In the New testament we find this same quote in the "Revelation of John" - “ Now write down all that you see of present happenings and what is still to come.”

I say the same thing that, "God created every individual thing. That God created all that was, all that is happening and all that will happen"

The view that man does possess free will and God's in His divine justice allows man the freedom of actions upon which he will be judged is how God preordained and determined some men to think; while all the time God knows all that will take place.

The term "bondage of the will" is the correct term for the true believer and term "free will" is use by nonbelievers who do not fear God. As God said to Jeremiah I knew you before you were born. The same hold true to every living thing, including and especially Man.

The present tendency of man to believe in his "predetermined role" does not lead him in most cases to his fulfillment of his moral and religious obligations, which should be "to act as a person created to act like God created the people for Paradise".

Being God created every individual thing and that God created all that was, all that is happening and all that will happen we must never forget this.

If we are ever going to have World Peace we must act like God, "We must welcome the ones who seek Him, even those who on their journey to God may have committed some mistakes along the way.

Man will earn his rewards on the basis of his faith and good deeds he does because of God's mercy and benevolence.

The people that who does not stretch their arms out to his neighbor and occupy himself with good deeds will be left alone. All is foreknown by God, we can not change the past.

The things that have happened were preordained and determined by God. So if we all learn to accept this we can all have a change of heart and reach out with the same mercy and benevolence which God offers to man on his journey to Him. Then and only then we will have World Peace in our life time.

Being the past was preordained and we can not change it. All that has happened was God's plan if we are going to survive we must look at every new day as a chance to for give and reach out to our neighbors and like God we have to learn how to forgive them; letting God be their final judge because in all truth God is.

Once we accept the fact that "man is totally dependent in all aspects of belief and deeds on God as author of virtues and vices, crimes and punishments." Once this is accepted one has no choice but to forgive the things that happened in the past, remembering Judith’s Prayer; “for you (GOD) have made the past.” Vengeance is the Lord’s alone. If we sin to take revenge one others our actions will be like unto those of the people of Hell where we will dwell forever." We have to only occupy ourselves with good deeds and our actions will be like unto those of the people of Paradise. We have to once again learn to “Love our neighbors” and live by the Lords Commandments.

Those for do not believe and continue their cycle of hatred and revenge will act like those who are on the evil path as one God created for the fire, his actions will be like those of the people of Hell, when he dies he will enter therein.

May God Bless the World with Peace, by opening the eyes of the non believers and giving them a change of Heart to remember vengeance is the Lord’s alone.

Dr. Jack Shepard, founder of People for Peace
http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/People_for_Peace_Group
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_jack_shepard/
http://dr-jack-shepard.blogspot.com/

6 Amen

I pray God Blesses the Middle East with Peace because once there is Peace between the Israeli's and the Palestinians then Peace in Iraq will be sent.

Dr. Jack Shepard

1 I'm not a homophobe . . Or at least I'm not afraid of a Homosexual. But I despise them because while they continue to tell us that Homosexuality is a genetic thing, averages tell me that it's a choice thing. In other words, they're a bunch of Perverts who have made a concious choice. A large number of entertainers are Homosexual or Bi-Sexual because they have become so callous about normal sex, it won't excite them, hence their "genetic" sexual practices.

And the thing that really gets me is that a large number of these assholes choose to make, buy or trade child porn, usually dealing with boys of all ages . . Yeah, I want one of them to be a scoutmaster for my 3 grandchildren . . in a Pigs's Ass! Be it a "Fudgepacker" or a "Carpetmuncher", they have no business looking after, educating or even being around children. All male homosexuals are Predators and at least half of the Females are! Prove me wrong!

2 Eh, I never had an issue with gays checking me out in the locker room. Hell, they want to stare and create some fantasy in their skull, they are free to do so. It's only fair, since I was visualizing killing them in painful ways, that they construct elaborate desires based on my beans and sausage.

3 Dude,

You want it bad? Try taking a shower at a gym in Seattle. I just cancelled my membership to the gym I've been a member of for 3 years because when I suggested to them they really should consider making the downstairs locker the "gay" locker room they laughed at me (what I mostly expected). It seriously creeps me OUT! Homos EVERYWHERE! Aaaaaaaahhhhh.

4 Wait, but it's still ok to like hot chicks that make out with other hot chicks, right?

5 Yeah, that's okay. You're right, as long as they're hot though. Otherwise, it becomes gross again.

6 So as GLAD/ACT UP! tries to do away with the Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy remember this--do you want your fellow soldiers checking out your junk in the shower?

Well who really cares, frankly? It doesn't mean much to me, so if it does to someone else it just seems like poor judgment (like overpaying for a bike part)... and you know what PT Barnum said about that.

7 I'd kinda like to see 70% of the male population to turn gay.
Think of the hot chick/straight guy ratio then! Yeah baby!

8 Um...your blog is so "insightful"

9 Shhhhhhh.I'm hunting wabbits.

10 The "PC bullshit" about gays IS that they are just like everyone else, except they like to have sex with other guys, you tool. If anyone was looking at you in the locker room it was likely due to the novelty of seeing someone with their head shoved up their own ass.

11 Don't worry Milton er Steve, we'll find that stapler for you...but we're going to have to move your desk.

Rusty, the dude who did the orgle...did he have his "O" face on?

12 'Oh, except for the fact that they want to, you know, have sex with other guys.'

be a man about it.

13 My take: We quit using terms of gay-speak like homophobia, or at least I do quit, since I am not afraid of homosexuality, I am simply morally and physically repulsed by it. "Homorevulsion" would be more precise than homos + phobos (same + fear). I don't want to see them kissing in my newspapers and on TV, I don't think they are clever when they invade some poor spode who puts up with their changing his lifestyle by pronouncing what's cool and what sucks in his home and closet, flouncing around him and wagging their fingers. What poor entertainment value there. And when someone inevitably writes to say "change the channel", I would tell them that I already have.

14 I dunno, I sort of get a kick out of it. It's really just a compliment. I'm sure gay men like it when women think they are attractive.

15 'My take: We quit using terms of gay-speak like homophobia, or at least I do quit, since I am not afraid of homosexuality, I am simply morally and physically repulsed by it.'

A one man war to change the world. how endearing.

16 I think adding the word 'the' in front of these words would suffice. Somehow 'the' makes things funnier.

Like 'the' gays, 'the' homophobia, 'the' AIDS, 'the' HIV....hilarious!!

17 News flash: there ARE gays in the military, always have been, always will be. They serve openly in England & Israel, & as the Royal Marines & IDF are the toughest bastards on the planet, just what we 'protecting' our boys from? I've heard a lot of whack-job arguments against gays in the army, but shower-shame takes the cake.

I especially like 'large's' child-porn crap, which is like the Jewish blood libel, & his Dan Rather-ish 'prove me wrong!' Sorry, nitwit, in the real world, if you make a whacko charge, it's up to YOU to prove it. DUH

18 I don't mean to shatter the image of gay men that some people have, but the skinny unathletic types were not the only gays. For example: the football player who used to love getting into my pants. Ah, high school. Good times...

19 I worked in an office (in San Francisco) where at least 40% of the office was gay.

Generally speaking, the gays were the most intelligent and kind-hearted men that I never wanted to have sex with.

20 Today, I understand some of what the muslims are upset about.

21 I love it. One fag gives his personal view on VH1 and all the straight boys are covering their precious virgin asses. Get a grip. No more black dudes in the locker rooms, fellas...I heard in a rap song they want to put a cap in your hairy white ass.

22 I worked in an office (in San Francisco) where at least 40% of the office was gay.

Yeah, but how many of the people in it were? Frankly, homosexuality isn't much of an issue. The issue is the effect of something euphemistically called "gay marriage" on the social institutions that are meant to be the formative environment for children. When families fall apart, civilizations fall. If it were proved to me that "gay marriage" would have no impact on that then it would be a non-issue... but somehow I just can't convince myself that that's very likely. Even Charles Murray, who doubts a lot of the statistical evidence for an effect of family structure still believes "gay marriage" will contribute to family dissolution. (He just doesn't think it's a lot.)

I should add that Charles Murray was the fellow who thought the "race gap" was primarily a matter of genetics... so he's not very likely to be concerned about something (family environments) that he has already discounted in favor of a purely genetic theory of intelligence. Most of the studies since his Bell Curve book, however, (see Dave Armor's Maximizing Intelligence) indicates that the primary impact on IQ is not genetics but family environment.

So, just how important is it to have gay marriage if the price for it is a dumbed-down population, and a wider intelligence deficit for black people? In fact the widespread opposition to gay marriage in the black community could be seen as a self-defense mechanism... an attempt to make sure things don't get even worse than they are.

Which is, in fact, the correct way to look at it.

The onus of "proof" that gay marriage would be innocuous for the society is on gays and libertarians, since they're the ones proposing to change the institutions supporting the family.

23 'If it were proved to me that "gay marriage" would have no impact on that then it would be a non-issue... but somehow I just can't convince myself that that's very likely.'

I see homophobia as something can wreck families. I don't see how other people getting married and living life in a committed relationship can wreck someone else's marriage.

24 The personal solitude I get from this is seeing history repeat itself.
The same minds that were speaking against:
1. integrating women into the population of land owners.
2. those who were opposed to slavery.
3. allowing blacks to vote and own land.
4. allowing white women to vote.
5. allowing alcohol to be consumed.
6. allowing interatial couples.
7. allowing blacks to vote.
8. allowing divorce to take place.
9. allowing gays and lesbians to live in the open.
10. allowing gays and lesbians from marrying.

As some might have figured items one through nine have been accepted by society as basic rights and those who vehimently spewed their undying fight, well what were their names again? The same thing will happen with item ten as did with item five and our grans children will sit back, while watching the history channel, and laugh at us.

To the point of worrying cause someone is going to see you naked, well as wise statement that a dead white old wise man said; "You aint got nothing we aint seen, drop them and cough!" If everyone is so worried about how they look, they should all be running their fat asses off on that treadmill another 10 hours a day. I am more offended by seeing some fatso in the gym locker room than some posturing fit body.

Get over you fat bodies and run!

25 relax guys, we're only checking out the cute guys

26 I think we should immediately boycott not only VH-1, but also Plato's Republic for condoning homosexuality. The ideas of Socrates should be purged because of his radical homo views.

27 Like a lot of the straight guys I know, I am a homophobe.


I had that realization last week when a guy named Jake gave a presentation to a meeting I was in. I disliked him on sight, though he seemed perfectly nice. And I had the realization that I thought he was defectively gendered. He didn't walk right; he didn't sit right; he didn't talk right.


I am not a fan of Jerry Falwell and Jesse Helms. I don't reject homosexuality on Biblical or in fact any other grounds. But I have a visceral reaction of hostility to men I perceive as gay.


Homosexuality seems like a performance to me, whereas heterosexual masculinity seems natural.


Now sometimes I suppose it's fair to say that homosexuality really *is* a performance. There's no doubt that Greenwich Village drag queens are at play in the fields of gender; that they're very purposefully trying to compromise the categories of male and female. And perhaps Jake, who seemed very androgynous (though in fact I don't know his sexual orientation) was consciously messing around with gender too.


But the funny thing is, heterosexual masculinity is also a performance. My ways of walking and talking and dressing and sitting were things I actually remember choosing and learning in my adolescence. At the time when my own sexual identity was fluid, I consciously chose and performed heterosexuality.


RuPaul is a performer of gender. But you know what? So is, let us say, Bruce Springsteen. The "plain" clothes (jeans and a white shirt) the studiously unkempt hair, the stage swagger: these are public performances of heterosexuality, no more "true" or "natural" than RuPaul's. In fact, the staging of heterosexual masculinity is extremely elaborate and takes a long time to learn. It is extremely elaborate performance that is supposed to be effortlessly natural.


One is simply supposed to be heterosexual and masculine, effortlessly, by nature. But the repertoire of gestures and inflections that mark one as masculine are things that must be learned. Male effeminacy is threatening because it indicates that masculinity is optional, that it is a public performance.

The attack on homosexuality has often taken the form of saying that heterosexuality is natural and homosexuality is unnatural. Heterosexuality is what mammals do in order to reproduce; homosexuality is just a distortion or a pathological state of the reproductive impulse. But in fact sexuality has many functions in mammalian life, including various kinds of partnership and bonding.


As a philosopher, I have long argued that there is absolutely no defensible distinction between the natural and the artificial. Everything human beings do is perfectly natural: we can no more violate the laws of nature than can a squirrel. Our minds are natural objects. And, by the way, everything we do is also artificial, in the sense that it is something human beings do.


Springsteen's outfits are no less artificial than RuPaul's: Springsteen also communicates an identity by his manner of dress. I say this as seriously as possible: natural and artificial are the same.


And that's how I try to reason myself out of homophobia. That's how I stopped hating Jake. But it's a constant task, a constant discipline, because homophobia is built into the structure of heterosexual masculinity.

28 you americans are fucking nuts...and who the hell watches vh1 anyway?

29 Rusty,

scroll up under your other subject on homophobia and see my response.

Cindy

30 You homophobes are nuts. What the hell are you afraid of? They know who is who and what is what and they sure as shit aren't going to hit on a straight man and anyone around you, including your bosses could be gay. I really hate this racist crap with a passion. I have a gay cousin - and he's been that way since the day he was born. On the other side of my family, I have a female gay cousin and I love them both to death, just as I love their partners. My God, people - you too Rusty - grow the hell up!! Anyone who is homophobic is that way because they aren't sure enough of themselves or it wouldn't even come to mind. Think about that.

If you want to get over your homophobia, watch TORCH SONG TRILOGY, PHILADELPHIA, BIRDCAGE and AS GOOD AS IT GETS. If you know who you are and what you are and are perfectly comfortable with that, then homophobia would NEVER enter your brain and if that's all you can think of when in a crowd of men, you have the problem, not the homosexuals. GET OVER IT AND GROW UP!!

And to the first commentator, it is not a matter of choice, its a matter of the brain and it's genetics which is why men go through hell until they come to terms with it. They were born the wrong sex. If your child was gay, it would not make you love them less and you'd know it from the day they were born and if you were stupid enough not to figure it out until it's too late, then you were ignoring the signs and not allowing them to be what they truly are; all I can say is just don't think about what they do and how they do it - just support them - they cannot help who they are or how they were born. I have never met a homosexual person who was ever violent in any way or one that would just walk up to a heterosexual person and try to "hit" on them - they know each other whether they are flamers like Carson on the FAB5 or in a 3 piece suit and tie or even a professor!!! So again, watch the movies and others like it, figure out who and what you are and get over it. If you're homophobic, YOU are the one with the problem, not the gays - whether male or female. Actually I think men are worse than women because guys like to see two women together; they don't like to see two males together.

And I have to agree with spaz - who watches VH1 anyway? I've never even heard of it much less watched it.

Oh, there's another subject here too - those are the hermaphadites - the people born with both sex organs - are you afraid of them too?? Intolerance is not a good thing to pass on to your children, Rusty, and homosexuality should be open and honest as heterosexuality but for some reason, most gay men pretty much keep it under wraps especially in public; they should be given the same respect as any of you expect. I hope I never see the word "homophobic" here on this site again.

Cindy

31 CINDY: Please be more patient with us who don't have any gay family members.

32 Grey Rooster: what's that got to do with the fear of homophobia?? Just because I have relatives that are gay has nothing to do with it; it's how I feel about everything - tolerance is probably the appropriate word; adding in my two cousins is just a bonus but being homophobic is just plain stupid.

Cindy

33 I strongly suspect that the only reason you publicly lash out against homosexuals is because you are so afraid that people might pick up on your own homosexual urges. You filthy pervert.

1 Holy crap that was funny. I am crying.

2 Next time someone here in Europe points out that the American Army has no sense of humour....I will correct them accord ling.....Class

3 Thank God they don't play those games in the Infantry.

4 Hilarious!

5 I love how he marked out the last word. Was he at 1001 words or something? lol

6 ' I will wind up living in a cardboard box because sometimes society can be a cruel, cruel entity.'

The washington times has reported that Iraq vets are starting to show up in homeless shelters.

7 Funny as hell.

Small nit to pick. RBI means "Reply by Indorsement". What happens, such as in this case, you get a written document which outlines what you've done wrong and you are required to "reply by indorsement" to that basic document telling what you did to correct the problem. You then write the "indorsement" which is appended to the basic document and forwarded up the chain of command to the person requiring the reply.

1 Aaak! The Plaid, the Horror! My eyes!

2 Its a imeperial ATAT comming in and im ready to take it down in my snow speeder BOOM BOOM BOOM scrap metal

1 Thanks for the link. I haven't been getting much love lately from the old blogosphere.

2 THE PASSION should win, hands down.

Cindy

3 that link does not work.

4 THAT LINK STILL DOESN'T WORK!!!!

1 SHUT OFF THE COMPUTER, RUSTY!!!!

2 Ummm.... Where can I get one of those cute lil cars!!!!

1 One of the greatest guitarists ever, that's who.

2 hahah... yeah you know you're old when...

3 "One of the greatest guitarists ever, that's who."

Ok, he was a decent guitarist, but let's not get delusional (unless you were being sarcastic). And he and Pantera actually did more harm for the heavy metal genre than good.

4 There are no Headbanger "Great Guitarists" . . . Volume, not talent rules contemporary music.

Coming from an old Rock n' Roll musician who will still put Hank Ballard up against most any post-80's musician (Yeah, well, OK, Clapton, Stevie Ray, couple of others ain't bad) and they still won't come across with the riffs that man alone could make . .

But, damn, the Music Critics are getting tough!

5 Dime bag "Was" one hell of a guitarist (one of the best of his kind) Who made a huge Contribution to REAL heavy metal

6 dimebag was one of the best and even though pantera wasnt still together they are still "the shit" so fuck all of you shit talkin mother fuckers who don't even listen to their music.

7 I saw him at wall-mart last night...
The psyco anyway... u know... porn...

8 Any true metalhead will know that Pantera spawned the whole nu-metal shit that tries to pass itself off as real metal. Pantera was never "real" heavy metal. I know this is a bitter pill to swallow for people who think they're metalheads, but I'm afraid that's just how it is.

9 I listen to rap, dont do much metal (Some) But i gotta feel bad for the guy. its fucked up somebody would do that shit at a show.

10 Dimebag was by far one of the most inventive guitar players of all time. Everyone has their own style, albeit rock, metal, pop, death metal, industrial, whatever. Dime was by far the most innovative metal guitar player of our time. He will be missed, remembered, and loved by all who have heard him play.

11 Venom - Rap is a piece of shit eminem can lick D12s nuts, people need to appreciate a good guitarist. Fuck the people who wanna be smart about it - they simply havent taken notice of Pantera's hard work and what Dime had made the band.

12 Hey, I said from the beginning that he was a decent guitarist. And is was. Let's just not get delusional and assume metal benefited from Pantera. Because in reality it pretty much poisoned the genre in that ignorant children started thinking it was metal, when it fact it was mallcore crap.

13 Sorry, that should read: "And he was."

14 The only thing I know about Heavy Metal music is that it's not music at all; IT'S NOISE!!! Plain and simple noise. What happened at that nightclub is tragic with this idiot killing 4 people, injuring 2, having the brother of dimebag in a chokehold while a cop sneaked in and shot the guy to death - good for him. BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO COVER IT ALL DAY LONG!! Every minute all day long as if there was no other news to cover - sort of like waiting for the Peterson outcome but worse.

And another thing, when our troops in Iraq see the news, they wonder why there is no news about them when the most important things they see on tv and radio is the Peterson case or this nightclub scene? They ask why is that more important than them?

What happened was bad but it didn't have to take up every channel all day long. Sure, I never heard of these groups or these people and if I want to keep my sanity, I'm sure not going to listen to it, either, but a few times a day is enough coverage, thank you.

Cindy

15 I agree, his music wasn't worth any news coverage more than a few minutes. I mean, it's not like Jimmy Page got shot or anything.

By the way, there are other things happening in the world besides Iraq.

Just thought I'd point that out.

16 Dimebag was good. but he wasnt the best(Kirk Hammet is). yeah what happened was fucked up but...for christ sakes get over it.

17 Pantera is fucking awesome!!!that shits messed....and Whacky...fuck u.

18 Dead. Think on it for a minute. The Clash sang "Someone got murdered, someone is dead forever." Do you deserve to be dead? A guy plays a guitar. So do I. And he is dead. Fuck you you insnsitive pricks.

19 Meh, Kirk Hammet was decent 15 years ago, but he hasn't done anything worthwhile since. But yeah, he's definitely better than Dimebag ever was. I'd also rank Gary Holt and Rick Hunolt (Exodus), Hank Shermann (Mercyful Fate), Mantas (Venom), Marty Friedman (Megadeth), Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman (Slayer), Tom Warrior (Celtic Frost), Adrian Smith (Iron Maiden), Samoth (Emperor) and Tony Iommi (Black Sabbath) as being heads and shoulders better metal guitarists than Dimebag (Jimmy Page, btw, is in the elite status of guitarits that no one will likely ever match - Zeppelin weren't metal, but they influenced a fair bit of metal bands that existed in the 80s). And all of them were more influential to metal than Pantera ever was or will be.

20 Did they ever say WHY the guy shot them in the first place?

21 Dunno, but what a memorial here in Arlington, TX! Over 5,000 peeps showed up at the Convention Center. Eddy Van Halen gave a eulogy, along with a former Ozzy Osbourne guitarist.

I know Pantera, but didn't know Dime Bag by name. Also didn't know he had such a big following.

RIP.

22 dime was a great direction to follow.

23 The guy who shot Dimebag basically believed that it was Dimebag's fault for the break-up of Pantera (again, no big loss). He also accused Pantera of stealing his songs and his identity.

So yeah, he was a complete nutjob.

24 ALL YOU PEOPLE ARE A BUNCH OF LOSER FREAKS GET A DAMN LIFE OUTSIDE A POST BOARD

25 dimebag darrel was a great guitarist, no matter what music you listen to and how much you liked or didnt like him or pantera. you cannot deny his skills. what happened is fucked up to say the least. smoke a blunt for him.

26 this venem mother fucker needs his ass kicked or worse and i know if you read his comments you would see my point

27
"Dimebag was a dear friend of mine," Ozzy Osbourne said. "I'm absolutely beside myself with grief... Pantera toured with me many, many times. I'll always remember the signed guitar that he gave me at my 50th birthday party. My heart goes out to Dime's family, his fans and the other innocent victims who were killed in this senseless tragedy. It's just terribly, terribly sad."
OZZY OSBOURNE

This is unbelievable. To sit here and talk about Darrell in the past tense seems so wrong, so unfair, so unjust, I don't even know what to say. My heart goes out to Vinnie, to their families, to the other band members, and to the families and friends of the other people that were killed or injured, in this fucking senseless act of selfishness and stupidity.
In 1985 I was fortunate enough to meet both Darrell and his brother in Dallas on tour. The first thing me and my friend did as soon as that tour was over, was to head straight back to Dallas and hang out with Darrell and Vinnie for a long time, cuz they were the coolest muther fuckers that we had met after criss-crossing the states for three months. That was the beginning of a friendship that was anchored in love, respect, fun, outrageousness, music, booze, sweat, late nights, early mornings, hangovers, headaches, pounding eardrums, sore bodies... the list goes on.

There's a tendency in these fucked up moments to use the word "I" a lot and focus on one's own feelings of pity and shock... so instead let it just be known that thru these eyes Darrell was incredibly warm, open, fun, nutty, forthcoming, talented, embracing, unpretentious, accommodating and he always had a very attractive innocence about him that obviously made him never threatening and always welcoming.

Darrell and his brother were the cornerstone of musical adventures that were always groundbreaking, pushing boundaries, challenging to themselves and to their fans, respected by their peers and always true musicians' musicians, and today the rock world is worse off because of this untimely and senseless waste.

Much love and respect and thanks for letting me be a small part of your life and I know you are already having fun and throwing it down with Bon Scott, Keith Moon, John Bonham, Jimi, Cliff B., and the rest of the musicians and troublemakers that you are hanging with so prematurely.
Lars

I was absolutely shocked by the news. Dimebag was such a really nice genuine bloke and a great player. He was always very respectful towards me and it was lovely to have him on tour with us. He will be sadly missed.
Tony Iommi

Dime, I will never forget all the times you made us laugh. I'm so happy we got to spend the day together in London recently… We should all live our lives as full as you have. I will miss you, as will all of us... This is a sad day."
Nikki Sixx (MÖTLEY CRÜE)

I'm stunned. The taking of Dimebag Darrell's life in this horrific murder is a senseless tragedy for his fans and unfathomable loss for his family. I send my deepest condolences to Vinnie and the rest of his family. My thoughts are also with the families of all the other victims of this heinous act."
Paul Stanley

Sad to report 'Dimebag' Darrell Abbott, formerly of PANTERA, has been killed in a club incident. Our best wishes to his family and friends."
Gene Simmons

Hello everyone. My deepest condolences go out to everyone affected regarding the passing of dimebag. His mucianship was superb and his original style was and will remain an inspiration to players worldwide. His friendship can never be replaced.

I first met Dime in 1991. I was in Toronto preparing for the 'Painkiller' tour. I had MuchMusic TV on and saw this guy talking about metal and wearing a 'British Steel' shirt. From what he was saying and the PANTERA video that aired I knew right away that this man was a guitar god!

" called MuchMusic and spoke to Dime and that night went to a club and hung with the band. We jammed 'Metal Gods'. From that point on, he and the rest of the band became solid friends. My gut feeling was that this band would be huge.

So PANTERA toured with PRIEST all over Europe. Many a night I would stand off stage and watch them tear up city after city leaving everyone stunned by their intense performances. It was a thrill to watch and hear Dime invent and advance with his playing. Soon the world became Panterarised!

He was beyond beautiful. When he'd walk in the room, he'd light it up. Fuck the guitar playing -- he's right up there with Eddie and Randy and Hendrix. All he wanted to do was make everyone happy. He was the ray of sunshine. Dime will never die ever -- he's in my veins. He's sitting at God's tavern, having a cold one with Randy Rhoads and Hendrix. Dime was an original.
Zakk Wylde of Ozzy Osbourne

Of course, so much has happened since those early times and I feel that it's important now that however we take the turn of events in recent years we all stay true to the same belief that Dimebag had about his love of metal, which was to play your heart out and be real wherever you are! Some things that happen in life make no sense at all, but out of pain comes strength, and I know the metal community will take that strength and use it as an enduring memory for Dimebag.

"Love never dies."
Rob Halford

We are all gutted to hear of the senseless and tragic death of Dimebag Darrell, who was shot by a 'fan' who climbed on the stage at a show of his new band, DAMAGEPLAN. He was, of course, better known for his great playing in PANTERA.

"PANTERA were, I think, the first band that I and my son Jimmy both got equally excited about. It was Jimmy who first got me to see them. They were a great band, and Dimebag was an innovative and passionate player.

"Great musician. Terrible loss. My respects to him, to his family and friends. Also to those who were killed trying to save him and apprehend the gunman.

"RIP."
Brian May (QUEEN)

It was horrible. Darrell was a big fan of mine. He expressed that every time we ever saw each other," said the Nuge, who fondly recalled that PANTERA performed his "Journey to the Center of the Mind" and "Cat Scratch Fever" the last time they played Detroit.

"It's tragic on two dynamic levels," Nugent, an outspoken advocate of sensible gun ownership, added. "Once again, innocence is destroyed, and it's Americans destroying other Americans. This conduct runs wild in this country ... It's not the Taliban doing it. It's Americans."
Ted Nugent

28 dude i love tallica hammet does kick ass but im not gonna say hes batter than dime (though it would've been great to seem them go head to head in a "guitar battle") pantera did alot for metal listen to drowning pool, disturbed, godsmack, slipknot, the pantera influence is undeniable. dime was also one hell of a performer who played his heart out he had something that sadly very few musicians today seem to have..... a passion for playing. this trajedy is a goddamn shame and the metal world has lost a hell of a lot

29 Brad,

I understand your appreciation for Pantera, but the simple fact is that not one of those bands you listed is a metal band. They're nu-metal or mallcore, neither of which are considered metal by people who know and understand the genre.

Jay,

Fuck you. If you knew metal, then you'd understand.

30 You people are kidding. Cause it's doesn't sound like metallica or the norm it ain't metal - Grow up. They were the bench mark. If you took time to listen to how they form they,re music, They aren't hacks. Give them a pice of music and they'll play the shit, with all the stall's low's and all the other little things that makes music classical. Just because they grew up in a place without values or trust except from those close to them and learnt the lesson 'You can't be something your not. BE YOURSELF, by YOURSELF, STAY AWAY FROM Me." This is what Dimebag, Bless that man, and Pantera is all about. Respect to those who deserve it and to hell with the rest. The world is an EXTREMLY fake place. Pantera saw it and if it wasn,t for them telling it how it is i would still be caught up in that fake, FRIENDLESS world. But just because the sped up the tempo a hundred times and put ten times the effort and more heart than any into their music than you idiots could ever imagine that makes them not metal. All i can say is that was the best 17 year ride boys, thanks for changing my life for the better so fuck the rest. Pantera will never die - STRONGER THAN ALL!Cause we don't change our music like our undies.

31 James,

Pantera weren't really metal because the majority of their music didn't have metal riffs in it. While you may think this FACT is debatable, it is not. Pantera were a glam rock band that decided it was in their best interest to make their music "heavy." Making music heavy doesn't make it metal. Tool is heavy, but no one calls it metal. Ministry is heavy, but it's not metal either. Pantera may have been "heavy" to a bunch of ill-informed youth who only started listening to "heavy" music a few years ago, but that doesn't make them metal. And they aren't. Mainstream or not isn't the issue. You either have metal riffs, or you don't. Pantera doesn't, so they're not metal. Calling Pantera metal is the same as calling Vangelis a classical composer. Or calling Puff Daddy an R&B artist. It's stupid because neither of their music carries accepted traits that define their music as such. Pantera is no different.

32 What is wrong with some of you people. The guy is dead and all you seem to want to do is classify the band into some category of music and worse ...argue about it amongst yourselves. Does this make you feel better? Who gives a shit what you want to call his music style? I am a little dated as far as what is current and all the stupid titles you seem to have to classify every type of music into a tidy little box. Pantera kicks ass and always will in my mind and in the hearts of many. Pantera was not my favorite band as I don't feel the need to have a favorite. I choose to appreciate the works of many and not to argue about who is the best. You cannot deny that it was one of the most original bands in this era of music where so many bands cannot be recognized from each other. Let's face it...there are 100 bands that sound the same. When I hear Pantera, I know it's Pantera. No maybe about it. That is originality.It heavily influenced a lot of people that play music and many that only listened. It is an attitude. Did this ridiculous conversation exist when Randy Rhoads died or when Stevie Ray passed on? This senseless waste of time changes nothing. It only reinforces the fact that some people have nothing better to do and very little respect for the dead. Rest in Peace Darrell.

33 ok that guy up there that said pantera created 'nu metal' that is probably the stupidest thing i have ever heard. Let's see, what makes nu metal: 1. Riffs that are all the same just downtuned very very low. Listen to any of dimebag's riffs, all of them are very difficult fast and awesome and if they aren't that awesome than they have awesome solos. 2. Nu metal never solos. I have heard maybe one song that dimebag didn't solo in and i think that was suicide note part 1. That's 20 years of music and only one song without a solo. You obviously have a lot to know about 'real' metal and just because pantera became popular doesn't mean they weren't real metal because they were the first damn real metal band since black fuckin sabbath, and some of the good underground bands.

34 brad, i totally agree with you but i think that half the people are trying to get their point across do these dumbasses that are trying to act like pantera weren't metal. Venom, I don't know if you've ever heard of a band called black sabbath, but they created metal, or helped. Go back and listen to sabotage, volume 4, master of reality, any of it. I don't know in your opinion what makes a metal riff, but those riffs are blues riffs with distorted guitars, and they made it metal. That's what good bands do, they take stuff that isn't straight out metal, blend it with metal, and end up with real heavy metal. That's what pantera did, and i have no idea how you can say that pantera's riffs weren't metal because they were, listen to 'use my third arm' from far beyond driven, that's one of the heaviest damn songs. And also the only reason these fuckin sucky nu metal bands are influenced by pantera is they were among the few metal bands in the '90s to be influenced by, and they're a damn good one to be influenced by, which those bands obviously aren't because they don't have badass riffs and off the wall solos. But anyways dimebag was in the top 3 (yes three) guitarists behind maybe randy rhoads, and probably ahead of hendrix. He was great, and a great person. We're gonna miss you brother, R.I.P.

35 Thank you shad!

After reading all of that shit, someone finally said it. As I see it, all the great guitar players of all time are "GREAT"! You cant compare one to the other coz they came from diff genre's. Each guitar player has his own style. It's like saying that a classical guitar player is nothing compaired to a hair metal guitarist just coz the dude cant do "heavy" riffs on an accustic guitar. I love Metal, plain and simple. But I would like to point out something to venom though...

FUCK YOU FOR SAYING IT WAS NO BIG LOSS WHEN DIME DIED! Dime is pantera!

36 he was and still is one of the greatest guitarist of this or anyother generation you fuck. how can u not know Dimebag???? u suck fuckin' cock! FUCK YOU MOTHERFUCKERS WHO SAY PANTERA BREAKING UP WAS NO LOSS!!!! besides Zeppelin, they are the most influentualy group in metal. not very many metal bands can say that Dime and PANTERA didnt influence them! most of you on here are a bunch of fuckin' pricks! if Zakk Wylde saw what you were saying about Dime, he would punch your fuckin' faces in! Dime fuckin' rules, no doubt about that! fuck rap and all the wigger-ass shit we have now including Limp Bizkit! FUCK IT ALL!

DIMEBAG DARRELL ABBOTT
RIFF IN PEACE BORHTER
8/20/66-12/8/04

anyone who still misses Dime, email me

37 Anybody that does't think Darrell Abbott was a great Guitarist don't know much. I Hung out With Phil Back in the 80s when he was with "Razor White". When he joined Pantera in 1987 , I hung out with Pantera for the First time at the old Circle In The Square, in Shreveport La. that was before they made it big , The Spandex Days. I still have the Cassette of "Power Metal " that Darrell Gave me. He was Known as Diamond Darrell then. He with Ex singer Terry ,Rex Rocker and Vinnie Rocked . But when Phillip just Barely 18 joined the Band He and Darrell clicked and the result was Cowboys From Hell , A Classic Masterpiece. I went and Hung out with then In Houston At Cardi'S several Times Too . Great guys and great Artists. I last Saw Darrell At the 1999 Sabbath reunion Tour in Dallas . I had not seen him in 10 years but he knew me by name chatted a few It was A great great show . He Was a Super Guy And Artist. Long live his music!

38 I never listened to Pantera when Dimebag Darrell was alive. In fact, I was delivering pizza to somewhere in Albany NY when some black guy came up to my car and gave me (Vulgar Display of Power), roughly a month after Dimebag had died. I threw the CD into my CD player and loved the music, IMMEDIATELY. I don't really care what most other people say, I don't ask of their opinions. What I do know is that this man (DD) who is dead, was most definitely a great artist and as far as my preference goes, he is alot better than KIRK HAMMETT who loves to STEAL other people's style and can't come up with one of his own... Sorry to whoever said that up above, but you are simply a (excuse this) FUCKING IDIOT. I have been playing music since I've been in 4th grade (1994) and I can say, that even though there's alot of guys out there who can hack it on their own and make some cool noise, this guy Dimebag, if you listen to his solos and rythym over and over, it makes more and more sense. Then you realize, this guy was just ahead of everybody. People who can't find something useful about a band that IS respected by many people, just do not find what it is that gives them their status of having talent. There's alot of people out there who are getting credit for making songs that are simple, easy, catchy, and plain downright boring when repeated as many times as they are on the radio, when people like Dimebag Darrell should have been getting grammy nominations. The same goes for Randy Rhoads, and Allan Holdsworth, both artists have their own grove and made music worthwhile to listen to - but that's another story altogether. All I know is that with the technology that is coming out nowadays that makes a guitar sound like a friggen airplane engine and what have you - there's new styles to approaching that SOUND that you want to come out of that fuckin amp, and Darrell was definitely pioneering something incredible and not getting credit he deserved. I don't give a fuck if I change anyone's opinion, but I will sit there and tell you that you are a fucking idiot if you can really honestly believe that a sold out, style stealing, out-of-his-groove guitar player like Kirk Hammet has more style than Diamond Darrell. You gotta be one deeply rooted Metallica fan with a chip on your shoulder and an IQ 50 points lower than everyone else to say something SO DUMB. Kirk Hammet could never play 'New Level' or 'This Love', because he's a pentatonic tapping lord of copiness and I know that Dave Mustaine has been trying to tell people this for years. Listen, that comment actually offended me - "Dimebag was good. but he wasnt the best(Kirk Hammet is). yeah what happened was fucked up but...for christ sakes get over it."

This asshole needs to learn how to get over such a washed out little pecker faced tune stealer. He CANNOT WRITE GOOD MUSIC. He can play, ok. Great. But you're a fucking idiot to think he's ANY better than someone who actually wrote his own shit, and not only wrote his own shit, but made it sound better than anything Kirk could ever copy.

Listen to "Metallica - Kill Em All - The Four Horsemen", then listen to "Megadeth - Rude Awakening - Mechanix" and you can LISTEN to how much Kirk Hammett really sucks. Not that this is in anyway Dimebag related but cmon, you said something STUPID.

39 Yeah, nice job venom, the guitarist of emperor is better....it seems u know shit about guitars and what it takes to actually play one and not sound like a complete retard like emperor. emperor shit is so so so so so easy to play. And by the way, pantera is not nu-metal, you cant say its nu-metal asshole, pantera had been playing for years. You say dime was a decent guitarist, well i guess ozzy and others disagree, lets see when your "mighty" emperor guitarist dies if anyone will even notice it. I mean, if most of the rock bands consider him to be one of the greatest, i think your opionion means dick. I think you are in no position to say he a fair guitarist when the experts disagree, are you an expert? no, shut the fuck up.

40 Holy fuck, what a bunch of fucking crybabies you all are.

1) Pantera was nu-metal. Or mallcore, if you prefer that term. They weren't metal. Anyone who has been listening to metal for the last 20 years (like myself) knows this. I'd bet the majority of you are probably early twenties who's first taste of "metal" was bands like Machine Head, Fear Factory (Demanufacture-era), or other bands that came out in the early 90s, none of whom were really metal. Metal is about metal riffs and metal attitude. A band that downtuned their guitars is not metal. A band that emerged from being a hair band is not metal. You don't get it because none of you knows what metal is. You think you do, but you don't.

2) Shad, thank you for completely missing the fucking point. The point wasn't "is Black Sabbath metal?" (which, obviously they were - moreso than Pantera and their washed-up fans could ever hope to be). Sabbath were pretty much the originators of doom metal, and you can trace the influences of 99% of doom bands back to them. Pantera were the originators of nothing, except maybe the first transition of a hair band to shit. I, for one, was completely caught off-guard in seeing a shitty band become shittier. Oh, and Phil Anselmo's "black metal" projects are worthy of the fags you've all demonstrated yourselves to be.

3) Mark, another "thank you" for missing the fucking point. I said Samoth was a better guitarist than Dimebag (a truth). I included him in a list of other guitarists that are better and more influential to metal than Dimebag and Pantera could ever hope to be. You focusing on one guitarist I mentioned is indicative of how narrow-minded Pantera fans are. They don't know shit about metal. And, uh, yeah, I actually know a thing or two about guitars and I can tell you the composition and structure of the guitar playing in Emperor is much higher than anything that fucking dink Dimebag ever strummed out. Fuck, are you for real?

4) Fuck you all. If you knew a thing or two about metal (not the cock rock that Pantera and your other bands like to shit out their asses) feel free to reply. Otherwise, go back to your fucking candlelight vigils and leave the metal discussion to those who know a thing or two about the style, you fucking douchebags.

41 people hear need to respect and have an open mind. I listen to everything from 2pac to venom to the doors to pantera, to creedence. I respect all music, unlike u fucking twats who got to bash dime so goddamn hard, grow up, he is a great guitarist, maybe in your opinion not the best, but why dont you fucking swing a full bottle then try to play fucking regular people and floods by heart. U know what, respect music , if u dont have a open mind, you need to be killed immediately, all you do is pollute people with whats :Real metal: oh wow, all of mayham can suck my dick, they have no real groove, its all blast beats, which im sick of hearing from 300 million faggot black metal bands, ( i like black metal too not all tho), fucking respect man, you guys cant even respect shit, grow up you arrogent fool, its people like you that brainwash our fucking country with your stupid racist propaganda, i dont fuckin care about whats real metal, pantera crushed and thats all that fucking matter, they didnt puss out for the media, or for what that matter is, they didnt puss out like metallica or whatever, at least they brought thrash metal and power groove to a new level, they didnt rip off exholder eaither, ive listen to exholder, and they dont sound a like, even the members said that pantera were good friends. who cares bout nu metal, pantera might of spawned it, but if you listened to all of far beyond driven your dumbass venom (by the way, sucks ass now anyways) they arent really nu metal. You can suck my dick you fucking stereotypical metalhead, its you metalhead(s) that are really pissin everyone off, go burn your church down, while you beat off your dad, and continuiously fist your fucking self. Respect, dude, grow up, i wish i could fucking kill you people for your arrogence, im a bit goin off right now, but dude i know people who are all bout real metal (bet ya consider judas preist nu metal too), who respected dime, becuase he added a crush at the time to what type of music was being pussified, they respected him as a good guitarist, up with chuck too. they respect, they have a O P E N mind, and are considerabley nice people, people that ive met that are close minded (surely like you) are people ive had to beat the living shit out of, or pull my fucking glock on there stupid asses. Fuck you, and GROW UP.

42 Hahahahaha, ahh, luke, that was the funniest fucking thing I read all day!!

", they didnt puss out for the media"

Haha, I guess you'd call hair metal "real fucking hardcore metal," right? Haha, you fucking nimrod.

Here's the best fucking line of your idiotic rant:

"Respect, dude, grow up, i wish i could fucking kill you people for your arrogence"

LMAO! Can you say "hypocrite?" I knew you could.

"...at least they (Pantera)brought thrash metal and power groove to a new level..."

The fact you think Pantera was anywhere remotely connected to thrash metal shows you know shit about thrash metal specifically, and metal in general. Thrash metal was early Slayer, early Metallica, early Megadeth, Destruction, Kreator, Sodom, and Sacrifice, to name a few. Pantera had nothing of this in ANY of their songs. Fuck you. Whatever shred of credibility you thought you had, you lost it.

"all of mayham can suck my dick, they have no real groove, its all blast beats, which im sick of hearing from 300 million faggot black metal bands."

Metal isn't about "groove" you dumb fuck. It's about attitude and riffs. Regardless of "groove," Mayhem were infinitely more influential on metal than Pantera ever was. You don't understand, because you don't know very much about metal. Too bad, so sad for you.

"they respect, they have a O P E N mind, and are considerabley nice people, people that ive met that are close minded (surely like you) are people ive had to beat the living shit out of, or pull my fucking glock on there stupid asses."

Wow, you sure are tough. I bet you pulled a glock out on their stupid asses, didn't you, tough guy. Or, maybe more accurately, you pulled your cock out on their asses? Your hissy fit is what one might expect from a woman.

1) Learn some grammar. Yours sucks. But, then again, so does your interpretation of what metal is.

2) I never said Dimebag wasn't a good guitarist (see one of my original posts, you dumb fuck). I said he was decent, but that there were many more guitarists who were a) better, and b) more metal (i.e. metal in themselves, or influential to other metal bands). Dimebag doesn't even get an honorable mention here. His kind of music pretty much killed heavy metal and created mallcore shit that you worship.

3) Fuck off.

4) You're a complete hypocrite. You preach respect and what not, yet every second line from you is about killing me (or people like me). As a hypocrite, your opinion is completely worthless.

5) See 3.

43 Pantera YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

44 hi im YODA and i rok, YODA YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

45 pantera is still a great band, if it is metal or what...? i dont know and dont care, i never thougth of them as a metal band, but more like something hard...
of course that jazz - metal - rnr - groove guitar that made it all happen was allso the big part of it.... it was ..hmm.. it was like a slash in gnr (his guitar made all the difference, thou the whole band rules)
i think he was (darrel) even a guitarist of the year (one year after eric clapton had his accoustic layla played on mtv unplugged...)
but never the less, was the man with idea

PLANET CARAVAN was one of the songs that had sth special , especcially the fadeouted guitar, although it is remix, u can still sence the feeling the band had,
and
GOOD FRIENDS AND A BOTTLE OF PILLS
i mean listen to that guitar and say anything
i think bas guitar was just placed near the drumms and vibrated by its own at every hit of a drum...
well it was, it is, and it will be a great band and influence for me, and it was very tragic to see what happened...

theres no bussiness like show bussines

as a recording artist i think they were deep, but thou i overgrown metal and am now into all sorts of different shit, i ve kept it in my hearth and will be part of me until ... i gues.. someone shoot me off the stage

(btw; that almost did happened already FEW times to me...it sucks ass)

dunno if it helps, but im sorry that shit happened , sorry for the victoms,sorry for the band, sorry for the people on (and off) the concert, fans, realtives, but mostly im sorry for the idiots that are still present in our civilised(?!) society...

46 Venom i guess you just hate pantera so much that you cant admit dimebag was a great guitarist, that just shows how narrow-minded you are. It seems that only you know what metal is, only you know the best guitar players and the rest of us are all wrong? are you for real? dont you think you are too old to be thinking that way? Like mark said, the experts disagree, i guess you could go and tell them your opinion, maybe take a couple of guitar lessons also while you are at it?. I must however admit that i dont think pantera is heavy metal, but thats not the point. Dimebag was and is well respected, and that respect is well earned.

so here you go claiming that dimebag was "ok", let me just ask you why he is just ok, i mean could you tell me why the experts are wrong, when they say he was perhaps one of the best guitar players around, and why you are right, i would so much like to hear this one.btw, sorum is indeed a complete monkey with a guitar, i bet the experts wont disagree with me on that one.

47 those of you who say pantera did more harm then good to metal pleas your bullshitting yourself and are most likely a bunch of techno new age fags. who set there and jerk off to your latest moby or eminem cd. but those are just my thoughts on what you had to say. to those who agree that pantera was and always will be one of the classic heavy metal bands of all time good for you and keep the music going. THE TREND IS DEAD MOTHERFUCKERS

48 Wow this Venom dude is real nutcase, to say Pantera was never a metal band and their riffs werent Metal is just plain stupid!!! Ur fuckin nutjob mate along with Nathan gale.

RIP DIMEBAG 66-04 thanks for the great music and everlasting inspiration..... \m/

ps metal is music not frekin noise like that dumb bitch cindy stated! thanyou.

49 yah this fuckin venom dude really fuckin stupid. your so fuckin caught up in what you think is metal that you dont even see how great pantera is. if you even listened to them you would understand. you probably heard "walk" or "5 minutes alone"(which are great songs) and thought that was all they were good for. well fact and sad truth is they got sloppy, but you listen to cowboys from hell and you hear songs like "shattered" and "heresy" and its just fucking undeniable that Dimebag had skill that very very very few could ever posess. now thats just a record. then if you caught one of their shows and saw how drunk they were onstage and pulled off the music flawlessly you would be fucking amazed. obviously you didnt follow pantera so you have no grounds to speak any kind of disrespect especially when you hold up bullshit pussy ass reject bands like fucking "emperor" to be better than pantera. and if this whole thing was in person i would personally knock your ass out with a big ass smile on my face for even saying that panteras break up was no loss.

50 yah this fuckin venom dude is really fuckin stupid. your so fuckin caught up in what you think is metal that you dont even see how great pantera is. if you even listened to them you would understand. you probably heard "walk" or "5 minutes alone"(which are great songs) and thought that was all they were good for. well fact and sad truth is they got sloppy, but you listen to cowboys from hell and you hear songs like "shattered" and "heresy" and its just fucking undeniable that Dimebag had skill that very very very few could ever posess. now thats just a record. then if you caught one of their shows and saw how drunk they were onstage and pulled off the music flawlessly you would be fucking amazed. obviously you didnt follow pantera so you have no grounds to speak any kind of disrespect especially when you hold up bullshit pussy ass reject bands like fucking "emperor" to be better than pantera. and if this whole thing was in person i would personally knock your ass out with a big ass smile on my face for even saying that panteras break up was no loss.

51 Yeah, well just comparing dime and sorum makes me want to cry, what sorum i just one of those who lack personality, atleast dime had something original, rather than copy from other bands. Next time when you bash pantera you might consider not mentioning sorum, i mean, sorum.....come on.

52 Well, lets start off with the basics: Pantera IS metal. Dimebag WAS a great player. And nobody (at least, in the threads i've read) has talked about it much, but Pantera started off really bad. But we must also admit they managed to turn from mediocre glam metal (Metal Magic, I am the night, Power Metal, all before Cowboys from hell), into a great metal band. Is Pantera REAL metal, was Dimebag one of the best ever? Both are argueable, and both miss the real point. As a listener, i must say that:

a) Pantera, in the 4 main albums we all know, really rocks,
b) i have to include them in the metal genre,
c) Dimebag plays like few others i've heard, in this genre.

And what's "true" metal? Venom says it has to do with the riffs, and the metal attitude. I'm about 30, and i've started to listen to metal with bands like Metallica, Venom, Sabbath, Savatage, Sodom, Kiss (terrible, i know), Cooper, Priest, Manowar, Maiden, Motorhead, Slayer, Testament, etc, etc. Throughout the years, metal has changed, and we with it. I've listened to bands like Amorphis, Deicide, Pantera, and still consider them all metal, just variations from the same source. The so-called nu metal, like Deftones or Korn or Limp Bizkit, is for me quite different from Pantera, because: a) they are in no way that heavy, b) they dont have, as Venom says, the riffs or the metal attitude. They're mostly (shitty) posers. Some have qualities, like (for me) Deftones, but still i wouldnt call them "true" metal.



But i would not define "true metal" as simply "riffs and attitude", although it certainly has to do with that; considering music history, i'd say that metal is much more related to classical music, in the way that it doesnt have the "groove" that other genres tend to have, but rather a very direct, simple approach to a certain melodic structure, and type of performance. Great metal bands have great players, unlike pop, for example. Who would try to compare, without being mad or drunk, Edge from U2 to Dimebag from Pantera, or any mainstream bass player you can name, to Dimaio from Manowar?

For sure, metal doesnt have much that classical pieces do have, but it does relate to it more, than for example pop, rap, reggae, blues, or other genres. And it has anger. It has furious riffs, drums, lyrics, vocals, and yes, attitude. Not the Korn/Bizkit-like oh-poor-me-my-parents-didnt-give-me-enough-attention or my-girlfriend-left-me-so-i'll-whine-a-bit attitude,
but rather the who-gives-a-flying-fuck, hail-and-kill kind of attitude, if you get what i mean.

And Pantera had that attitude, and the talent to make some great songs. It may not be "pure" metal, as metal goes, but they were not wimps or posers. When listening to Cowboys from hell, Walk, Rise, Fucking hostile, I'm broken, Domination, Drag the waters, and many others, how can we not consider this a great metal band, displaying anger in its pure form, in a variation (if you want to be a purist) of "true metal", but still great metal nevertheless?

Well, its just my opinion. Cheers,
Rui, Portugal

53 Rui, kudos to you for actually having a brain in your head. I completely disagree with you about Pantera being metal, and most real metalheads in their 30s (read: those who grew up and saw heavy metal emerge and mature in its heydey) agree that Pantera was NOT metal. Yes, they're loud. Yes, they play fast. Me putting a disco record on 45 and cranking up the volume doesn't make it metal, but the way you listen to most of the fuckwits writing in this thread you'd think that's all that matters. Pantera wasn't metal. And yes, it is about riffs and attitude. Real heavy metal riffs (which I'd love to hear what some of these dinks consider a real heavy metal riff). And real attitude. Not the made-up kind that Pantera conned millions of pansy-assed kids (like the kind that have stood up in this thread to defend Pantera) into thinking they had.

And evan, I'm fucking stupid? At least I know how to not double-post. You might want to bone up on that while you're taking a break from boning your boyfriend.

Oh, and evan, again: Pantera's break-up was no big loss to metal, since it never even had an impact. But hey, any retard like yourself can talk big over a keyboard, so fuck you. You talk tough, but we all know you'd much rather be playing with your dollies.

As for ufo claiming that "experts" considered Dimebag one of the greatest guitarists ever...well...do I really need to debate how idiotic this statement is? I mean, what "experts?" The ones you invent in your head to administer some kind of credibility to your moronic claim? There are probably thousands of guitarists (both metal and non-metal) who are heads and shoulders better musicians than Dimebag. He was an ok guitarist with a bunch of misinformed youth thinking he was this god. It's not my fault that people like evan, luke, or any of the other douchebags who don't know a thing or two about metal are getting pissed off when I call them on it.

The fact that Dimebag is dead doesn't suddenly elevate him into this legend of a guitar player. He wasn't while he was alive, so how can he suddenly be that much better? Give it up.

54 Oh, and Rui, it sort of got lost in my last post, that while I may disagree with you about Pantera, at least your showing some knowledge about metal, which is a far cry from what most of the other idiots propping up Pantera are displaying.

55 You're all stupid, niave, little children. Dimebag sucked. I wasn't going to say it because I have respect for the dead, but just reading you all moan on and on about how much of a God he was is making me sick. He's as much of a sellout as Kerry King (but I suppose you guys will disagree with me on that one, because Kerry King is a bad ass, right?) This is what happends when musicians die, flocks of children with no sense of who they are start claiming they were fans so they can gain attention for their "loss". I bet half of you are faggot Slipknot fans. If you all had half a brain you would relize Venom was just stating facts. Pantera is NOT metal, and the length of time they've been around plays no part in which genre a band fits in. If you can't accept this, you are the only ignorant ones.

56 Venom,
Like you said, anybody can talk tough over the keyboard, but I'm not really about that shit. Email me and I will give you my address, or you can give me yours and I will beat the living shit out of your goddamn cocky ass, no problem. Don't be a pussy and do it, or you become another one of those little bitches who try to act tough over the keyboard.

57 u guys are fuck heads, Dimebag was fucking awsome, but Randy rhodes has got to be the greatest guitarest of all time hands down.

58 dude i wasnt even pissed venom, i just think you need to grow up and open your mind. I listen to the Metal you listen to, but i listen to everything from primus to pantera, to black sabbath, hell to NWA.. to classical, and blues players, i see how now the people out there look at heavy metal fans as disrespectful peices of shits, and narrow minded and ignorent. thats why i stopped acting like a metal head, and more like a man, i dont give a fuck if udont like pantera, i do, and respect that, I THOUGHT they were metal and thats a OPINION not a fucking FACT you retard. I also think Venom is metal too!,but its not about whos the HARDEST or fastest ITs about variety, and what you really like. I like pantera, cuz i like them, i know theres many great guitarists, but my opinion was dime was my favorite, so grow the fuck up and be a man and respect peoples opinions, stop acting like a 7th grade wanker. Just cuz its NOT METAL To you doesnt make it cool period!. your a selfish motherfucker. Its all facts in your book right? wrong you fuck. You are the stereotypical asshole metalhead who doesnt have a heart, just pure hate, and it do it cuz its soo cool with your culture, right? i love metal but i dont act like a rampling faggot fan, Those bands arent even as negotive or low as you get, so continue your life flipping burgers, cuz with your attitude your only going to go large amounts of shit!, oh yea i know about panteras glam albums and there not that great, but u know all bands start somewhere before they achieve the sound they want.. i started in a basic gnr type band and evovled into a metal band does that call me a poser, sorry but people start somewhere, and will GROW up eventually.

I dont even give a fuck about your stupid opinions eaither, but i RESPECT them.

59 yah venom...i dont know what im talking about because i double posted?? im not a computer nerd fuck face. and if panteras break up was no big deal then howcome half of the magazines you saw during that 2 year period all had something or other to do with what was happening next with pantera?? dont argue with me over this shit...i sure i know a lot more than you about them. so fuck you.

60 I guess ufo meant other guitarist and bands when he used the word "experts", just to let you know venom, i rather believe them than an emperor loving idiot. Dimebag did something original, but i must say that when i think of metal i dont think of pantera, they just dont mix. I like pantera myself but i can safely admit that it is not metal, i dont even know what it is but i like it, and thats enough for me. Dimebag had an impact for he is one well know guitarist and he has honestly earned that respect. Just to let the others know, venom is a stubborn asshole whose oppinion cannot be changed, consider him to be a cranky old man who only remembers the good old times, he also seems to "knows" everything, so you can just forget about everything you ever read about dimebag and how good he really was, because the messiah is here, hail venom. Why do you even give a fuck what he says anyway, theres always someone who doesnt think the same way as you guys, live with it instead of having a stupid forum "fight". Only thing i dont get is how can you disagree with the people who are in fact in the music business, the same people who consider dime to one of the greatest.

61 Venom apparently thinks he's some kind of metal trivia king, probably collects a ton of shitty unheard of metal albums because they are "classics." Well, buddy, Pantera's music influenced people just like the shit you listed as your favorites. Who cares if Pantera's sound wasnt EXACTLY like other metal bands. Actually, who CARES what fucking genre it is? I bet after you purchase a CD, you have a little list to verify that it fits every single stringent metal rule, and throw it away if it doesent meet them all, right? Music changes, if it didnt, we'd be listening to a bunch of shitty african drum beats right now. Most bands try to steer away from their genre's norm and develop a unique sound, and Pantera did that.

62 You guys... All of you... Metal is not defined as a straight-line here. Do you understand hwo many different types of metal there are? Classic Metal is what Venom is more into, obviously. And hell, Calssic is awesome. Nu-Metal is not metal at all. It isn't hard rock because for hard rock you ahve to be able to actually play your instruments. If you go through and listen to nu-metal most of it will change right there. Mudvayne released 3 cd's, I believe, and now their music is just rock. (I actually hate that band but I like their new stuff.) And you people talking about Korn having no anger or intensity. The intensity thing is right, Korn has no intesnsity. But anger.. Korn has a lot of anger, Jonathon Davis is one angry emo kid. (He was raped by his dad and the media is putting a lot of pressure on Korn and insulting them at every turn.) But just because Pantera infulenced every Nu-Metal band out there doesn't make them Nu-Metal themselves. That just means Nu-Metal bands listen to Pantera and try to copy them. You said Ministry isn't metal... It's called Industrial Metal. That is what NIN and Manson is. That is what Skinny Puppy is. Out of all the different types of metal i have heard there are... Classic Metal, New Wave of Brittish Heavy Metal (Iron Maiden), Black Metal, Melodic Metal, Goth Metal, Death Metal, Art Metal, Industrial Metal, Nu-Metal, Thrash Metal, Southern Metal, Christian Metal, Shred, Love Metal, and just plain metal.

To get to guitarists... Venom you have no right to be talking about this here. Honestly, Dimebag was a great riffer. Dimebag was a COUNTRY METAL guitarist. SOUTHERN ROCK. If you had any clue as to what music is.. you would know this. His dad taught him how to play. His dad was a country artist. Zakk Wylde is a Country Metal guitarist mixed with blues. More Southern Rock right there. If you doubt Pantera being metal, you doubt Zakk Wylde being metal. If you doubt that Zakk Wylde is metal... you start doubting Ozzy. Then you doubt Black Sabbath being metal. Though you mgiht nto think of it in your mind, you are doubting Black Sabbath being metal right when you say Pantera isn't metal. So just shut your mouth.

You people give metalheads bad names. Arguing continuously over this same topic. Throwing curses at each other. Can't you have an intelligent conversation without cursing? If you can't... you are an ignorant bastard. Telling people they probably sit there and jack off to Eminem because they like Techno... How dare you. Techno is actually awesome. But hey, I'm one of those Rythym guys. If you pay attention to music then you can start understanding everything better.

Someone said every 80's hair metal band was not metal. OZZY WAS A HAIR METAL BAND! Your stupid. Just because they were hair metal doesn't mean they weren't metal. Motley Crue was metal.. but they were Pop as well. IS there a strict line saying that you can't be pop and metal? NO.

The comment on Black Sabbath starting Doom Metal.. I totally agree. I love Doom. Like Type O Negative, Paradise Lost, Virgin Black. Those bands are awesome.

There was one more thing... The reason Dimebag was a great guitarist... You can tell his playing from anyone elses. Thats why Tony Iommi is a great player. A lot of his stuff sounds the same though. Thats why Jimi Hendrix was great. Thats why Zakk Wylde is great and Randy Rhoads. You can't put Steve Vai in that category can you? No, because everyone started sounding like him when he was in Whitesnake. And he kept that sound. Though he is a great player just from his melody he plays.

This is a thread on Dimebag's death. Why insult a dead man? That is very, very disrespectful. Dimebag went on stage pissed drunk and still played the hell out of his guitar. Better than players who were sober. He sat down with Sebastian Bach's son and showed the kid riffs when he was still VERY young. He was a great man. He loved home videos, he loved music. Thats all he is. He is music. And that one track Suicide Note pt. 1 he DID solo on it. It was a really slow solo. That will be all.

63 You know... Nobody even mentioned Damageplan here. Damageplan was the band Dime was in when he died. The singer was in Halfords solo band. The bassist was a friend of theirs from Dallas. My brother drank with Dime and Vinnie at their club in Dallas. And I was looking forward to seeing Damageplan this summer...

You know Pantera would have gotten back together in another year or two. If Nathan Gale would have been in his right mind then he would have waited. Gale was a psycho... thats all. If there was an after party Dime would have been killed there instead of in the middle of a set. He was actually looking for the after party and when he found out there wasn't one he got pissed off and did it in the club. There is horrible security at clubs. Sad really.

64 This forum has somehow turned from Pantera and Dimebag, into a lets-see-who-bashes-Venom-the-most competition.

Venom knows his metal and what he likes, and he's open and direct about it, not being an indulgent little shit like lots of people unfortunately are. Calling him names just for saying what he feels, doesnt make much sense. And Venom seems to play along, insulting the people that insulted him. It may be somehow fun, but it all still looks silly to me.

We disagree about Pantera, I think its metal, although maybe not "pure" metal, while he doesnt find it metal at all; so what? A forum, correct me if i'm wrong, is a place for debate; we all dont have to agree on everything. If we did, it wouldnt be a debate.

And Venom, I still disagree with that "real attitude", and if Pantera "conned millions of pansy-assed kids", then I must say I'm among them: I liked, and still like, a lot of their songs,
and whenever I hear Walk, I'm broken or Drag the waters,
I dont feel like a pansy, at all. I stand by what I've said: Pantera really rocks. And Dimebag is a fundamental part of their fast, heavy, ass-kicking music, a great guitar player. You have your reasons to disagree, and none of us will persuade the other. Thats quite ok.

Even so, I see your point, its a fact that Pantera didnt really follow the "true metal" path, and they somewhat took advantage of some trend that led to the current nu-metal posers we have today. Still, I like their sound. They found their own place, and evolved from tacky glam metal, into something much different, much heavier. I dont like everything from them, but I also dont like everything from bands like Maiden, Sabbath or Manowar, all of which I consider "true" metal. Do you disagree with any of these choices for "true" metal?

So, did metal die before the 90s, and everything since is just "fake" metal? I dont think so. And bands like Pantera kept metal alive, whether we like them or not. Nowadays, some people think Limp Bizkit is metal. Some pansy-asses (borrowing Venom's expression) even think that Creed or Bon Jovi are a sort a hard rock, almost-metal. I say, fuck the labels, consider what Pantera and Dimebag did really well, and if you have to bitch, do it about what other bands - that even have "metal" in their names - did: sell out. Which Pantera never did, until the end.

Again, just my opinion. Cheers,
Rui, Portugal

65 Got to agree with Brian here,and by the way, Jonathan Davis was not raped by his dad.

"People think Daddy was written because my dad fucked me up the ass, but that's not what the song's about. It wasn't about my dad or my mom. When I was a kid I was being abused by someone else and I went to my parents and told them about it. They thought I was lying and joking around, so they never did shit about it. They didn't belive it was happening to their son." - Jonathan Davis

66 RIP Dime. That's all. You didn't deserve this. You and the rest of Pantera took the metal world by storm and never let up. When things didn't work out with Pantera, you didn't let it hold you down, and you kept on making good ol' fuckin' rock. What a shame...

67 Well honestly im interested in a real discussion about metal with Brian, Rui, and Venom or anyone else who thinks they can put a coherent sentence together. Would you go more in depth Venom into what you are saying defines metal, the riffs for example? Or just use Metallica to make your point, what do you call a metal riff and where exactly did they stop? This shit is all pretty interesting to me and id like to know what you guys are thinking

peace

68 LOL, man, looks like this thread will have more staying power than anything Pantera ever did for metal...

First off, Kyle, you're a douchebag. Why the fuck would I give you my address? Because I'm scared of you? Give me a break. Like I need all the nu-metal halfwits also knowing where I live. And any dink who would travel across the country to try (emphasis on try) to kick someone's ass sounds like they're pretty fucking desperate for some kind of self-validation. What, I completely tear down your ability to discern what metal is, so you need to prove to yourself you're still a man? Pretty fucking sad. Why don't you post your address for all of us to read, tough guy? You claim you've got the balls, but I don't think you do. The degree to which you are a fag continues to boggle the mind, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Lightening: thank you. It's nice to see that some people out there still know the basic differences between what's metal and what isn't. If someone likes Pantera, you know what, I don't give a shit. That person can like them all they want. But I take issue if someone tries to equate them with metal(especially when metal as a genre is dying). They're not. And the only people who think they are are those who were born less than 20 years ago, or have only been interested in what they think is metal for a short period of time.

evan: "yah venom...i dont know what im talking about because i double posted?? im not a computer nerd fuck face. and if panteras break up was no big deal then howcome half of the magazines you saw during that 2 year period all had something or other to do with what was happening next with pantera??"

Because they know that dinks like yourself would buy their magazines because they happened to mention Pantera? C'mon, you're not this dense, are you?

"dont argue with me over this shit...i sure i know a lot more than you about them."

lol, nope, you don't. Sorry, try again.

dumdidum: Not one of those quotes that was posted earlier in this thread (from music industry "experts") was metal. How qualified are they to give an opinion as to what's metal? About as qualified as you, it seems. Knowing what's metal and what isn't doesn't make me a "messiah," but it does give me the grounding to talk about it. With a scant few exceptions here, not many others can, it seems. And, what's with the constant focusing on Emperor? Is this the only straw your grasping at to make a point?

Mike: "Who cares if Pantera's sound wasnt EXACTLY like other metal bands."

Fuck, are you missing the point here? It's not whether or not Pantera should have sounded "exactly" like other metal bands. It's that they weren't metal. Venom, Sacrifice, and early Judas Priest sounded completely different from each other, but they were all metal. Pantera wasn't. As was implied by Lightening, just because a band is considered "heavy" doesn't make them metal. Sure, Pantera had a ton of fans and they played their musi loud and had long hair and tatoos. Doesn't make them metal. There seems to be this rationale that if a band has these traits and doesn't fit the punk, alternative, or rock 'n roll mould, then they must (somehow) by default be metal. And that's the problem. They're not metal. They're nu-metal (which, despite the name, doesn't mean they're metal - the term is used in a derogatory manner by those who know what metal is).

"I bet after you purchase a CD, you have a little list to verify that it fits every single stringent metal rule, and throw it away if it doesent meet them all, right? "

You bet wrong.

"Music changes, if it didnt, we'd be listening to a bunch of shitty african drum beats right now. "

Very true, but I'm not out there calling Blink 182 "punk" just because the band only knows how to play 3 chords. And I'm not out there calling Vangelis "classical" because he uses a keyboard. To people who know what metal is, it's not really a hard distinction to make in calling Pantera nu-metal. What's the problem here?

"Most bands try to steer away from their genre's norm and develop a unique sound, and Pantera did that."

Wellll, if they're getting "away from their genre's norm," then they're not really in that genre anymore, are they? So, how can you continue to call them that genre? Not that I'm calling Pantera metal, but just to illustrate your poor grasp at logic here.

Brian: "Classic Metal is what Venom is more into, obviously. And hell, Calssic is awesome. Nu-Metal is not metal at all."

Well, yes, I do like "classic metal," but there's a lot of cool shit being created today, too. I'm just not going to jump on the bandwagon and call everything metal just because it's played loud. But yeah, nice on being another person to notice nu-metal isn't metal. Now, if only the others here could see the forest for the trees.

"Dimebag was a COUNTRY METAL guitarist. SOUTHERN ROCK. If you had any clue as to what music is.. you would know this."

Ok, c'mon. Dimebag wasn't a metal guitarist. I don't care what kind of adjective you throw in front of it, it doesn't make it so. And the fact you have to describe it as southern rock shows he (and Pantera) are not even in the same fucking ballpark as metal. Really, is this that hard to understand for people?

"Zakk Wylde is a Country Metal guitarist mixed with blues. More Southern Rock right there. If you doubt Pantera being metal, you doubt Zakk Wylde being metal. If you doubt that Zakk Wylde is metal... you start doubting Ozzy. Then you doubt Black Sabbath being metal. Though you mgiht nto think of it in your mind, you are doubting Black Sabbath being metal right when you say Pantera isn't metal. So just shut your mouth."

Oh, c'mon! I don't give a shit if his father was fucking Ozzy Osbourne himself - if there's no metal in the music, it's not metal! You don't see people calling Iggy Popp metal because he had long hair, a hard lifestyle, and tattoos. And, frankly, if YOU want to get technical about this, Black Sabbath was a lot more influenced by the blues than it ever was by country. And if you can't hear that, then you're in the wrong fucking discussion. Country metal, give me a fucking break.

"Just because they were hair metal doesn't mean they weren't metal."

Hahaha...ahh, seriously, when did you start listening to metal?

"Motley Crue was metal.. but they were Pop as well. IS there a strict line saying that you can't be pop and metal? NO."

Not a "strict line" per so, but anyone who knows the absolute basic differences between what's metal and what isn't wouldn't make this kind of comment.

Rui: "Even so, I see your point, its a fact that Pantera didnt really follow the "true metal" path, and they somewhat took advantage of some trend that led to the current nu-metal posers we have today."

You're a lot closer to hitting the nail on the head than a lot of people here.

"I dont like everything from them, but I also dont like everything from bands like Maiden, Sabbath or Manowar, all of which I consider "true" metal. Do you disagree with any of these choices for "true" metal?"

Nope, they're all metal (if only Manowar didn't have those gay-looking album covers, though).

"And bands like Pantera kept metal alive, whether we like them or not."

Nah, they didn't. If anything, they accelerated metal's demise. They kept nu-metal alive, but that's about it.

Anyhow, you like Pantera, good for you. Despite what a lot of people might think, I'm not trying to turn their tastes away from Pantera. But I'm not going to call a band metal when I know they're not. I was alive and listening to metal when it was churning out great band after great band in the 80s, and truly establishing itself as a unique genre. When you hear all those bands over a decade, and compare them to what's being passed off as "metal" now, you know what's metal. It's not about evolution of the genre. It's about ignorance of the genre.

Ben: Rather than pick songs for you, I'll give you a bunch of band names and I'll let you discover what constitutes metal (don't worry, not trying to be an asshole with you, but I find you learn more if you do it on your own). Take a listen to the following bands: early Iron Maiden, early Judas Priest, early Metallica, early Megadeth, early Slayer, Venom, Sodom, Sacrifice (these last two bands in particular are a must if anyone really digs metal), Possessed, Celtic Frost, Bathory, Death, early Morbid Angel, early Destruction, Kreator, early Exciter, early Annihilator...These bands are each a subgenre within metal, with each falling into at least one of these: classic heavy metal, thrash metal, black metal, speed metal, and death metal. There are loads of other great metal bands, but these will get you started.

Now, after listening to these bands that in large part defined what's metal, take a listen to: Pantera, Damageplan, System of a Down, Machine Head, Coal Chamber, and Korn. These are popular nu-metal bands, and you'll notice the difference right away.

Good luck.

69 Get over it, metal is dying, pantera is not metal, and why does it have to be metal? I mean for example i like korn, but i dont go around claiming that its metal just because they can play "hard" or because i just want them to be metal?. I think dimebag is a great guitarist and thats my opinion, people will always disagree if they are talking about music.

Venom is not saying pantera is crappy because its not metal, he is just saying its not metal. And if the man does not like pantera or does not have any respect for dime its his business, you think a forum "fight" is gonna change that?

And btw i do like pantera, so this has nothing to do with me not liking them. i just dont have that "pantera is metal coz they play hard lool!" attitude that you guys seem to have here. Like i said in the beginning, you dont need to call it metal just so you can listen to them.

sorry about my english, im from finland.

70 Well said, sphere. And Pantera aren't metal for many reasons, attitude is just part of the reason. Musically, they're not even in the same ballpark.

71 Indeed, i think people these days arent quite sure what is metal or even what rock is, and what i mean by this that you hear pop groups claiming that they are rock all the time. There is so many different music out there that some people have a hard time finding out what music they really are listening to, all these country metal,doom metal,trash metal terms are,to be honest,giving me a headache, so i dont even know what "kind" of music im listening these days and for me thats ok, i just enjoy it. some bands themselves dont seem to know what they are, for example korn has been influenced by so many different music styles that you just cant call it blues,metal or rock, but i guess there is a official term for korns music but either way i hope you get the point.(some page said it is trash metal?)

This discussion first started about dimebag so i guess i will give you my opinion in that matter also. I think he was great, one of my favourites, so with that said i can safely end this post.

72 For fucks sake, what the fuck is it with nu-metal this, thrash metal this, heavy metal this, i'm more of a metal head than you bullshit?

Dime WAS one of the fucking greats. Why? well if you'd ever heard that guy play, or better seen him live, you'd know. Who gives a fuck if Pantera 'spawned' nu metal (which they fucking didn't) or killed grunge or whatever, the guy was amazing, the band were amazing. That's all there is to it.

Besides, it's fucked up for ANYONE to get murdered for no reason at all, so does the fact that you did or didn't like him mean shit anyway? Being a fan makes it more of a tragedy but not being one doesn't make it any less of a bad thing.

RIP Dime

73 name 10 guitarists BETTER than dime, then see what everyone else thinks. If you can't do it, it just proves that he was one of the best (in the top 10).

74 Well, let's see...if we're talking metal guitarists (which dimebag wasn't, remember), then I'd have to say: Jeff Hanneman, Marty Friedman, Dave Mustaine, Tony Iommi, Hank Sherman, Larry Lalonde, Jeff Waters, John Ricci, Rick Hunolt, and Joe Rico, in their heydeys, were better guitarists than dimebag ever was. Hell, Kirk Hammett was better. Of course, you'll disagree with me because you've probably never heard of most of these guys, let alone listened to any of their bands' albums.

Now, if we're looking at ALL guitarists, regardless of music style, dimebag wouldn't even register in the top 100.

Sorry, that's just the way it is.

75 dime was great.

76 just listen to cemetary gates and tell me that the solo does not make the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end. If this is true, well, your dead.

1 LMAO! Thanks Rusty. Just what I needed tonight. I'm at a conference and have spent the last three days preparing the presentation I gave today. This was great for letting off steam.

2 huh?

3 The creator of this is a genius. What could be better than an endless supply of bubble wrap. How about we get a link to this on the Ansar site, get those lunatics hypnotized by the bubble wrap and ambush the SOB's while they are in their trance?

4 It's so... beautiful.

5 Hmm... I've long thought about writing a grant proposal for funding a study to determine whether one or both genders prefer popping bubble wrap to sex...

6 ulcuwiucexu ahatupadzm.

1 Ummm... I've known this formula for years. Although I stopped dwelling on how evil "girls" were about the same time I left college. Women, on the other hand....

2 Totally down with the math... but don't tell my girlfriend, that.

3 I wrote that exact set of equations on the back of an exam for a class on Feminism that I had to take years and years ago. She's didn't think it was funny, but she was borning anyway.

4 Now, the wife AND the girlfriend are mad at you! ;-)

5 Looks something from my freshman Geometry class. I really hated those proofs at the time.Of course I did not hate girls; was just afraid of 'em.

6
That fear was well placed. If you got over it you will soon find the reason why you had it in the first place. First instincts should never be ignored.

7 Why do I have the feeling the reason BRD hasn't been blogging as of late has to do with women troubles????

8 'Cause you remembered how to do math?

9 I got some math fer ya hahaha!!!!!
Many of women's problems can be traced to the male gender?MENstration
MENopause..............
MENtal Breakdown................
GUYnocology............
HIMmorrhoids.............
MENustraton.........
PreMENstal Craps........ Need I say more... hahaha

10 Good one Andrea.

Waiting for james and venom to take exception to our light heartedness and remind us that there are hungry women in Uganda and its all Bush's and America's fault.

1 its all to much to bare

2 My hubby likes Meg Ryan.... But he DROOLS for Julia Roberts..

1 I guess the tin foil hat was on too tight for that first couple, b/c the last time I checked, the ends of a swastika point clockwise. Oh well, I already knew they clearly were not students of history anyhow...

2 Aren't these the same nutcases who dawn masks and use sling shots against law enforcement officers outside of WTO meetings? I guess in such short notice the bums couldn't get enough money up to buy enough ripple for the street people to join them in their slingshot leden fun.

Also, that is a swastika but not the right one for what they wanted to convey which shows canadian literacy is sorely lacking.

3 On the other hand, it would really suck to actually know useless bits of information like which way a swastika's arms are supposed to point. Not to mention a little scary, too.

4 Up there in canaduuuhhh we se these idiots in their usial stupid protests compairing bush ti hitler just where did they get their educations? or did they play hookie all the time and they have just shown why they are ignorant about a lot of things and at one time my father wanted to move to canaduuhhh just shows their IQ must be a 00000% and to think that jerk fact micheal moore called americans dumb and so did that left-wing english rag THE LONDON DAILY MIRROR(or is it the DAILY SEWER?)

5 5000 protesters ultimately showed up. I'm not sure what the expected turnout was.

6 Hahahaha, way to try and set the record straight, sandpiper!! I mean, with your run-on sentences, spelling mistakes, and self-taught grammar skills, you're clearly one of the bright ones, right?

Exactly what point were you trying to prove, blandpiper? That you're smarter than the average Canadian? lmao! I've seen ebonics that made more sense.

7 My favorite person in the Engineering firm I sold 6 years ago had perfect grammer. Wrote great reports. Many accolades from Federal, State and major city officials on his presentation of our proposals.
HE WORKED FOR ME MANY YEARS. I even co-signed a loan for his home in Walnut Creek, Calif. Great guy with great literary skills.

1 Kylie singing... to me! I should be so lucky.