March 06, 2007

Kenneth Bigley was in Iraq as a civilian engineer when he was captured by Abu Musab al Zarqawi's "Tawhid wal Jihad", later changed to "al Qaeda in Iraq". Several hostage propaganda videos were released in which Bigley was seen wearing the orange jumpsuit of Abu Ghraib and in which he made demands on the the Blair government for his release. In his last video, Kenneth Bigley is seen making more demands on Tony Blair and seems to be unaware that the man standing behind him, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, is about to murder him.
UPDATE: Jeremy Reynalds identifies the man as Abdul Rahman Saleem. Where have you heard that name before? He is the follower of Omar Bakri Mohammed who was put on trial for his part in the Mohammed cartoon protests when he advocated murdering blasphemers. He pleaded not guilty, of course.
We are not sure the name of the person justifying the murder of Ken Bigley, but another video, recorded at the same time, shows that just to the speaker's left sits a more familiar character: Abu Izzadeen. The speaker, then, is most likely a follower of Omar Bakri Mohammed.
Izzadeen is under indictment in the U.K. for inciting terrorism, but as far as we can tell the speaker in this video is walking around the streets of London or Birmingham inciting more Muslims to commit acts of murder, terrorism, or treason. Bakri Mohammed's followers in Britain unanimously support recruiting for jihad in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, they want British Muslims to fight British troops--the very definition of treason.
In the video, the speaker justifies Kenneth Bigley's murder on the grounds that Bigley was in Iraq to help fix military hardware which would then be used to "kill Muslims". This is not true. Kenneth Bigley, Jack Hensley, and Eugene Armstrong were in Iraq to work on civilian reconstruction efforts. They were there helping Muslims. It is al Qaeda in Iraq that continues to murder Muslims to this day.
The speaker then says Bigley was in Iraq to "steal the money of the Muslims". Which, of course, is also patently untrue. Ken Bigley was being paid by the U.S. government to help the Iraqis rebuild their country so that Muslims in Iraq would have a functioning economy so that they could earn money for themselves. It is those that murdered Ken Bigley that steal money from Muslims by blowing up Iraq's infrastructure.
The speaker, in what seems to be a bit of "humor", warns that people involved in the reconstruction effort--or, as he deems it, "stealing from Muslims"---should "mind your head". No doubt, a reference to the dozens of civilians beheaded by al Qaeda and other jihadi groups in Iraq.
Last, even though Bigley "converted" to Islam at the point of a knife, the speaker reiterates that since Islam forbids forced conversions, then Bigley must have become a Muslim of his own free will. See if you follow that sick and twisted logic? And if that is the case, even though the speaker does not say it in this video, those listening would undoubtedly understand another reason why his murder was "justified". To the Salafi jihadi mind, Muslims helping the U.S. and U.K. in Iraq are "traitors".
To get some ideas for yourself on how you can help, see Jeremy Reynald's book: Fighting the Online Jihad.
The video is below. If you saw the video of Kenneth Bigley being murdered, you might want to remove any objects from your reach that can be thrown at your computer. more...
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Posted by: Jester at March 06, 2007 04:12 PM (iwtIO)
Posted by: greyrooster at March 06, 2007 09:37 PM (wTIrf)
Posted by: wb at March 07, 2007 09:33 PM (hiEju)
June 30, 2006
Now, you too can rub out the former al-Queda-in-Iraq leader.
Kuma Reality Games announced today the release of Kuma\War’s 75th episode, “The Death of Zarqawi", whicb simulates the strike that killed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi on June 7th.
Created within two weeks of the real-life bombing, the episode allows gamers to join the U.S.-led coalition stationed just outside the house where al-Zarqawi is meeting with other insurgent leaders and choose between two strategies of attack: calling-in the real-life air strike that killed Zarqawi, or an alternate on-foot ambush which involves storming the guarded house and attempting to capture the terrorist leader alive.
Naw, much better to off him in the most brutal and painful way imaginable for bonus points.
UPDATE: Rusty finds the link! Play the game here. The download is free.
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June 29, 2006
Though Abu-Mus'ab Al-Zarqawi is no longer a player in the Iraqi arena, it is important to review and analyze the military and political circumstances in Iraq surrounding his killing. This report presents the deterioration, prior to Al-Zarqawi's death, of his relations with his Sunni allies, which had reached the point of violent clashes and mutual killings. This violence emanated from the increased political participation by Sunni organizations and parties in the elections and, subsequently, in the establishment of a new democratic government in Iraq - and from Al-Zarqawi's opposition to these developments.more...
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June 16, 2006
William Teach comments: more...BAGHDAD, June 16, 2006 – The new lead terrorist in Iraq is a founding member of al Qaeda in Iraq and had a close relationship with the now-killed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, coalition officials said.
Officials revealed yesterday that Abu Ayyub al-Masri succeeded Zarqawi following the Jordanian terrorist's elimination June 7 in a precision-bomb attack on his safe house in Iraq. They said Masri fully bought into Zarqawi's bloody tactics that have left thousands of innocent men, women and children across Iraq dead or maimed.
Al-Masri - which means "the Egyptian" - is another foreign fighter who trained in Afghanistan like Zarqawi, coalition officials said. No one knows his real name.
The terrorist is said to be about 38 years old and got his beginning in Egypt, where he joined the Islamic Brotherhood. He fled from Egypt and moved to Afghanistan, where he trained in explosives at the al-Faruq Al Qaeda camp. There he met Zarqawi, officials said.
After the fall of the Taliban, Masri escaped to Iraq and set up with the Jordanian-born Zarqawi. The Egyptian specialized in vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices. He helped establish the Baghdad cell of Al Qaeda in early 2003, officials said.
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June 13, 2006
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"he's just one terrorist."
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at June 13, 2006 03:12 PM (8e/V4)
Posted by: john ryan at June 13, 2006 04:33 PM (TcoRJ)
Posted by: greyrooster at June 13, 2006 08:19 PM (ZVFO9)
Posted by: Jester at June 13, 2006 09:04 PM (TuAMG)
In the last week we've heard a lot of different explanations for where this intelligence came for. We've heard that a lot of it came from tapping into al Qaeda's use of cell phones and their use of the internet. We've heard that locals gave it away. We've heard that Sunnis did it because they were tired of the slaughter. We've heard that al Qaeda brass finally decided that Zarqawi was no longer an asset alive. We've been hearing stories about "smart dust". We've now heard that it was part of a quid pro quo in setting up the Iraqi government.
What I think we're seeing is a disinformation campaign, which is intended in part to disguise and distract people from figuring out how they really found him, and in part to seriously affect al Qaeda's morale and operations.
After all, any of those things could be correct, and from now on al Qaeda operatives are going to be nervous about damned near everything. Are the neighbors snitches? Can I trust my fellows in the organization? How do I communicate with others when my communications could be getting intercepted? ...and so on.
From my study of history and the way that these kinds of intelligence breakthroughs are generally exploited, this kind of disinformation campaign is quite common, and pretty much the one thing you can be sure of is that the real story is one you haven't heard.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at June 13, 2006 11:06 PM (+rSRq)
There are so many ways to slip up. At some point he'd have the Bonnie & Clyde finish.
From here on in it would seem that we've got an 'in'.
I can't see AQ in Iraq sealing off the intelligence breaches.
I'd expect that many players are bugging out right now. Perceived risk has exploded.
The Iraqi Army is about to 'flood the zone' in Baghdad.
The end of the Sunni phase may be at hand.
Posted by: blert at June 14, 2006 12:59 AM (a1gzd)
Posted by: Howie at June 14, 2006 07:32 AM (/Xibe)
June 12, 2006
The Jordanian security official told TIME that the bombing killed Abdul-Rahman and Mr. X, in addition to al-Zarqawi's 16-year-old wife.
Since his baby was 18 months old, that means he impregnated his wife when she was 13 or 14 years old. That is one more reason to hope he is burning in hell.
H/t to LGF.
Update: The autopsy says Zarqawi died of internal injuries caused by the 2 500lb bombs. There were no firearm injuries.
Posted by: cbjohnson at
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ie, racism can be good.
Posted by: Rachel Ann at June 12, 2006 06:17 AM (OGPU0)
Posted by: actus at June 12, 2006 06:39 AM (nnhSu)
THERE AIN'T NO VIRGINS THERE SUCKER.
Wake up, islam, before it's too late for the rest of you.
Posted by: n.a. palm at June 12, 2006 06:40 AM (2ePu9)
Posted by: AbbaGav at June 12, 2006 07:05 AM (5XR09)
Posted by: greyrooster at June 12, 2006 07:19 AM (KM2nY)
Posted by: Jester at June 12, 2006 02:25 PM (TuAMG)
Posted by: sandpiper at June 12, 2006 09:19 PM (FpZEl)
June 09, 2006

[Right: Abu Musab al Zarqawi can be seen reading a message shortly before he murders Jack Hensly. Below: Jack Hensley appears on Zarqawi propaganda video in which the al Qaeda leader announced that he would murder the hostage unless all his demands were met]
Unlike the father of Zarqawi murder victim Nick Berg--who continued to blame President Bush for his sons death despite the fact that the al Qaeda leader personally cut his son's head off--the Hensly family seems to be having a more rational response to Zarqawi's death.
AP:
The brother of a Georgia man who was taken hostage and killed in Iraq said justice was served in the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the presumed mastermind of Jack Hensley's killing."I'm thankful this guy can't hurt anybody else," Ty Hensley told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Thursday.
But Ty Hensley, who lives in Charlotte, N.C., also said he feels renewed sadness and anger toward Al-Zarqawi.
"It is a personal thing," he said. "He desecrated my family."

Pati Hensley [Jack's wife] was relieved by the news of al-Zarqawi's death, said Jake Haley, a family friend who spoke to reporters at her home at her request. She left town to avoid the media spotlight.And some people are saying its wrong to celebrate Zarqawi's death? Fools, all.Jake Haley said he e-mailed the news to Pati Hensley before dawn Thursday. Shortly afterward, he visited the home and the two sat out in the back deck talking.
"We cried," Haley said. "We were both happy about it. It's not just Jack. This guy murdered a bunch of people. There were a lot of really nice Iraqi people that this man killed the same way."
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Posted by: Jack's Smirking Revenge at June 09, 2006 11:41 AM (CtVG6)
Posted by: Jack Miller at June 09, 2006 12:01 PM (CnDtU)
Posted by: Jack Miller at June 09, 2006 12:02 PM (CnDtU)
Posted by: Jack Miller at June 09, 2006 12:04 PM (CnDtU)
Good riddence to really bad rubbish.
Posted by: Jenn at June 09, 2006 12:09 PM (QD9ey)
Posted by: George ramos at June 09, 2006 12:17 PM (CnDtU)
anyways I came across this on some blog...
Since America is typically represented by an eagle, Saddam should have read up on his muslim passages. The following verse is from the Koran:
Koran (9:11) for it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome eagle. The wrath of the eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah, and lo, while some of the people trembled in dispair, still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.
notice the verse number....hmmmmm?
Interestingly we are on the road to peace.
Posted by: Billy Faeth at June 09, 2006 01:01 PM (frD3Z)
Posted by: Billy Faeth at June 09, 2006 01:03 PM (frD3Z)
Posted by: Oyster at June 09, 2006 01:56 PM (ULAbo)
Posted by: sandpiper at June 09, 2006 07:41 PM (XnXsx)
Posted by: Laura at June 09, 2006 07:57 PM (WeRWZ)
Posted by: davec at June 09, 2006 08:54 PM (CcXvt)
Posted by: Gormless Norman at June 10, 2006 12:44 AM (3MMCf)
Posted by: Martin at June 10, 2006 02:32 AM (2JBmV)
Posted by: REMF at June 10, 2006 04:01 AM (7RMSi)
Posted by: REMF at June 10, 2006 04:20 AM (7RMSi)
June 08, 2006

Al Qaeda in Iraq's leader, Abu Musab al Zarqawi is dead! This post to be updated throughout the day.
[Right: An image of the dead al Zarqawi from Howie]
Vinnie's original report on Zarqawi's death. Demosophist: The Jeb Stuart al Zarqawi connection.
Today is one of the happiest days of my life. When I heard the news, I literally started crying.

To quote myself: Ding dong, the bitch is dead!!! Update: Great minds think alike.
Long-time readers know that The Jawa Report has had a personal grudge against al Zarqawi. Zarqawi first appeared on our radar screen when he was the leader of Tawhid and Jihad and began producing beheading snuff films distributed on the internet.
It was the murder of Nick Berg by Zarqawi, more than anything else, that set The Jawa Report on its present path. Seeing Nick Berg being murdered by al Zarqawi caused a reaction in my that is difficult to describe. It angered me. It made the war on terror personal. It made killing Zarqawi a personal goal for me.
In fact, over the past year or so not a single day has gone by when I have not fantasized that Zarqawi was either dead or captured. Today, my dream has come true!
Flashback: Nick Berg Gave Password to Terrorist
Log-time reader and hostage watcher George: Nick Berg and Eugene Armstrong's killer has finally died. I would have prefered he be beheaded but at least he's dead. Nick and Eugene are smiling from above. I am sure of that. Maybe now we'll finally get Bin Laden. I have more hope now. I always knew we would get Zarqawi since he was in Iraq. Today is a good day Rusty. RIP Nick and Eugene.
Amen!
Report from Baghdad on Iraqi reaction:
Mid-morning local time the news broke, Abu Musab al Zarqawi has been killed. The celebrations on the street and the cheers at the press conference announcing this news may seem odd to some in the comfortable confines of the west. While a BBC reporter today referred to al Zarqawi as a “controversial leader of the resistance†the reaction among most Iraqis lacks such nuance, they are glad for one simple reason, al Zarqawi is dead.More reaction from Iraq: CONGRATULATIONS TO IRAQ, CONGRATULATIONS TO THE WHOLE WORLD ON THIS VICTORY.The reactions among Iraqis to the death of al Zarqawi is quite different than that to the similar demise of Uday and Qusay. The deaths of the brothers Hussein was met with a jumble of emotions among Iraqis in 2003: some saw them as leaders while most saw them as the homicidal maniacs they were. The reaction to the death of al Zarqawi is far more visceral, akin to ridding one’s house of a menacing rat.
A reserved Sunni intellectual who is quite particular in the language he uses summed up the feeling surrounding al Zarqawi’s death: “Goddamn that motherfucker for what he has done to Iraq.â€
The death came courtesy of Task Force 145.
Video of al-Maliki announcing it.
The husband [of one of Zarqawi’s sisters], who identified himself as Abu Qudama, said: “We’re not sad that he’s dead.â€According to CENTCOM, one of Zarqwi's key lieutenants was also killed in the raid, spiritual advisor Sheik Abd-Al-Rahman.“To the contrary, we’re happy because he’s a martyr and he’s now in heaven,†added the man, who said he lost one of his legs fighting Russian forces in Afghanistan as part of the Islamic Mujahedein.
Reaction from the Left. Cut-and-run. And more. More Lefty 'elation'.
Nick Berg's father feels no relief that son's murderer killed. More from the 'peace dad'.
More insanity from Mr. Berg: Zarqawi's death will foster anti-American resentment among Al Qaeda members
Image before it was cleaned up via Michelle who has a roundup of her own.
How is Haditha related to Zarqawi's death? Because pro-insurgent forces love to lie about each and every incident in which someone in Iraq is killed. For instance, Lawrence at Is Full of Crap points us to this reaction from a resident of the town in which Zarqawi was killed as reported in the NY Times:
"Zarqawi. Zarqawi. Zarqawi. That's all we hear about. Zarqawi was not here. This home belonged to displaced people,'' said a village resident, holding up a teddy bear and a child's knapsack buried in the destruction.So, one of the most evil & vile scumbags on the earth is killed and the reaction is....blame the Americans for killing children. See how this works and why we should be skeptical of claims of massacres in Iraq?
Think Bluto's post about the MSM reaction is overblown? Read this report from the Financial Times. Not only is the importance of the Zarqeermaster's death downplayed, the al-Qaeda link is also questioned.
Right reaction: Beth:
HAHA, you fucking son of a whore, may the maggots in hell choke on the stench of your filthy rotting corpse. Fuck you, you dead piece of less-than-worthless garbage! Let Satan himself and all his pet goats skull-fuck you until your ugly fucked up head pops off. 72 virgins? Heh. Virgin leper hogs, maybe.Somewhere in Hell there will be 72 very sore sheep tonight
Welcome to hell, Abu, you goat-raping half-a-man.
Hot damn, pizzas for everyone!
The elimination of Zarqawi and his henchmen will kneecap the foreign insurgency.
See-Dub: I guess that machine gun he was working so hard at firing didn’t come in to handy, now, did it?
National Day of Mourning declared by French youth
Human Rights Groups Kill Abu Masab al-Zarqawi
Oyster: do not pass go, do not collect any virgins:
Pundit with good roundup. Lot's over at Hugh Hewitt from Hugh and Mary Katherine. more...
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Posted by: Michelle Z. at June 08, 2006 09:20 AM (fXkLc)
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/08/berg.interview/
Posted by: Jack Miller at June 08, 2006 09:20 AM (CnDtU)
Posted by: Jack Miler at June 08, 2006 09:22 AM (CnDtU)
Let's chop his head off too. That'll learn him.
Posted by: Party Pooper at June 08, 2006 09:28 AM (UHKaK)
Posted by: Jack Miller at June 08, 2006 09:39 AM (CnDtU)
Posted by: Party Pooper at June 08, 2006 10:20 AM (UHKaK)
Just reading the links show that Nick Berg was a jew traitor to this country giving passwords and assistnace to these filthy arabs. He got what he deserved in the end--a just reward for his anti American activities.
I personally plan to show the Berg video at my 8 year olds birthdy party next month and to all of his friends so they can see what happens to traitors and who the enemy really is, all arabs.
So Zarqawi is finally dead, fine. We will not rest until every arab man woman and child has also been slaughtered.
God Bless America
Posted by: Unashamed Patriot at June 08, 2006 10:22 AM (Nhfns)
Posted by: Oyster at June 08, 2006 10:31 AM (ULAbo)
Posted by: Grim Reaper at June 08, 2006 10:33 AM (fO5UN)
Good thing for Bush now, since his ratings plummeted. Maybe now that Zarqawi's dead, it'll take the heat off of those poor Marines accused of shooting civilians at random.
Posted by: Laura at June 08, 2006 10:33 AM (WeRWZ)
Posted by: glenn at June 08, 2006 10:41 AM (UHKaK)
Posted by: Oyster at June 08, 2006 10:44 AM (ULAbo)
Posted by: Party Pooper at June 08, 2006 10:51 AM (UHKaK)
RIP, Berg, Armstrong, Bigley, and all the others.
This news is not going away anytime soon. The allegations against those Marines will take a much needed break. I hope they get off, fuck 'em, this is a war, right? Anything goes.
Posted by: Laura at June 08, 2006 10:57 AM (WeRWZ)
That seals it for me. I need no further proof that Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at June 08, 2006 11:00 AM (8e/V4)
Posted by: glenn at June 08, 2006 11:05 AM (UHKaK)
Exactly, screw this "winning hearts and minds" shit.
Blow away a couple of their toddlers and old ladies, maybe they'll start getting it: don't fuck with the USA.
Posted by: Party Pooper at June 08, 2006 11:12 AM (UHKaK)
http://angelaaronscc.blogspot.com/
Posted by: slimangel at June 08, 2006 11:20 AM (ZYbRZ)
Thanks also to all those who would have pushed for rights for this maniac had he been captured. The US Military was thinking of you when they decided to drop bombs through the roof instead of special forces through the windows!
Posted by: Fred Fry at June 08, 2006 11:22 AM (JXdhy)
Arabs are subhuman filth lower than cockroaches. I teach my son that if you ever encounter an arab you shoot them first no questions asked. He must know that arabs only wish to harm others and rape children.
Praise Jesus and God Bless America
Posted by: Unashamed Patriot at June 08, 2006 11:28 AM (Nhfns)
Posted by: Cmunk at June 08, 2006 11:31 AM (7teJ9)
Posted by: Greg at June 08, 2006 11:41 AM (q5wwn)
I think ALL of Bluto's reactions to the MSM are overblown, fueled largely by sweeping generalizations, logical fallacies and non sequiturs that stretch the bounds of reason.
Posted by: glenn at June 08, 2006 12:46 PM (UHKaK)
More evidence Liberals suffer from a mental disorder.
I'm staring at the pic of dead Zarqawi and it fills me with such a calm and peace. I can actually feel the endorphins and dopamine begin to flow. Is that wrong? He looks like he's sleeping peacefully, but his soul is now burning in an everlasting eternal hell.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at June 08, 2006 12:50 PM (8e/V4)
Though I am somewhat saddened, now who will I make fun of for being a stupid monkey unable to fire a gun in a propaganda video made to make us fear them?
Unashamed Patriot...you sound like Guy de Lusignan or Reynauld de Chatillon. They believed much the same thing before setting out for Hattin. God and Jesus were on their side, it did not matter that Saladin held vast numerical superiority in a startegically and logistically superior position. It did not get them too far (especially Reynauld). Fighting smart, not zealously, wins the day.
Posted by: Ranba Ral at June 08, 2006 12:53 PM (S+598)
Posted by: TheWingedAvenger at June 08, 2006 12:57 PM (UHKaK)
to prepare us for a huge attack here that they can then
say was revenge.watch!!!
Posted by: judd at June 08, 2006 01:03 PM (PTskS)
I saw a reporter ask someone why didn't they show the rest of Zarqawi's body, and just the face? They said it was "too gruesome" from the attack....bullshit! Bring it on! Hey, we saw the beheading videos, this would be a piece of cake to watch!
Then again, maybe his head is all that's left of the bastard.
GOD BLESS AMERICA. REJOICE!!!
Posted by: Laura at June 08, 2006 01:12 PM (WeRWZ)
Posted by: blackdog at June 08, 2006 01:13 PM (U5mdE)
Posted by: George Ramos at June 08, 2006 01:19 PM (CnDtU)
Hmmm....
Posted by: Party Pooper at June 08, 2006 01:28 PM (UHKaK)
Posted by: George Ramos at June 08, 2006 01:30 PM (CnDtU)
Posted by: Party Pooper at June 08, 2006 01:33 PM (UHKaK)
Posted by: iGNORANT jACKOFF at June 08, 2006 02:31 PM (ZucvC)
>>>What pisses me off is that Nick's father doesn't appreciate the fact that his son's killer is dead.
That seals it for me. I need no further proof that Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at June 8, 2006 11:00 AM
------------------------------------------------
Yeah, really. Wasn't Jesus a screwball? I'll bet that wacko is spewing some kind of love your enemy garbage that only liberals with mental disorders agree with. Kill'em all. The real god will sort them out.
Posted by: iGNORANT jACKOFF at June 08, 2006 02:34 PM (ZucvC)
ROPMA
Posted by: Leatherneck at June 08, 2006 02:49 PM (D2g/j)
I guess youse guys don't "see" my tongue in my cheek, eh? Do you really think I condone innocent civilians getting killed? Hell no. But when insurgents are shooting at you, using them as human shields, what the fuck else is left to do? Stand there and take it? War sucks, get over it.
Posted by: Laura at June 08, 2006 02:49 PM (WeRWZ)
anyways i just like to say Al-Zarqawi got Pwn3d!!!!!!11111
C'mon say it with me. ALLAHU AKBAR! indeed.
...you gotta say that phrase at the correct moment.
Posted by: Billy Faeth at June 08, 2006 03:18 PM (c6Dyg)
But what if it really is revealed the three Marines the investigation is targeting actually walked in to this house, shot that old lady in her wheelchair, a mom and her kid in bed, and 19 other unarmed men, women and children?
I'd say it kinda makes it hard to sell ourselves as liberators and friends, not to mention un-doing the "hearts-and-mids" work of tens of thousands of other soldiers over the past three years, don't you think?
Are you willing to "Get over that?" Betcha the miliary Courts-Martial won't.
Posted by: Party Pooper at June 08, 2006 03:40 PM (UHKaK)
Posted by iGNORANT jACKOFF at June 8, 2006 02:31 PM
Is he any less dead? conspiracy kooks coming out of the woodwork I see -- did Karl Rove use the Roswell space saucer, with it's anti-matter ray to kill him IJ?
Have you see his body below the neckline?
Posted by: davec at June 08, 2006 03:48 PM (CcXvt)
Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Were you an OJ supporter as well?
Posted by: Laura at June 08, 2006 03:59 PM (WeRWZ)
Can you imagine the field day you conspiracy theorists would be having if he had been damaged beyond recognition??? lol! Sorry to dissapoint you.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at June 08, 2006 04:22 PM (8e/V4)
Posted by: Jester at June 08, 2006 04:23 PM (oDbIP)
Posted by: George Ramos at June 08, 2006 04:47 PM (CnDtU)
Did you see the words "what if" in my post? That means "WHAT IF they are," not "they are." You gotta take a minute to read all the way through for comprehension.
Posted by: Party Pooper at June 08, 2006 05:43 PM (oxMjD)
-C
Posted by: Chris at June 08, 2006 05:52 PM (EHnBF)
Posted by: greyrooster at June 08, 2006 08:23 PM (4Ospb)
Posted by: REMF at June 08, 2006 09:09 PM (7RMSi)
Posted by: George Ramos at June 09, 2006 06:59 AM (CnDtU)
Posted by: john ryan at June 09, 2006 07:46 AM (TcoRJ)
Who gives a crap. Serves the bitch right for being married to the guy. Too bad for the kid I guess. I consider him just another victim of Zarq's terrorism.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at June 09, 2006 08:08 AM (8e/V4)
Posted by: George Ramos at June 09, 2006 08:26 AM (CnDtU)
Posted by: George Ramos at June 09, 2006 08:34 AM (CnDtU)
Posted by: George Ramos at June 09, 2006 08:42 AM (CnDtU)
Alan Combs bitched about them killing him. He said he was probably more valuable alive than dead. He said if we knew he was in there, why didn't we take him as prisoner? Well, maybe it's because we failed on the other 56 attempts!
Posted by: Laura at June 09, 2006 08:42 AM (WeRWZ)
Posted by: George Ramos at June 09, 2006 08:59 AM (CnDtU)
I don't know if it's true though, that he tried to escape from the gurney.....the reporters have said that the only took a head shot of him dead because the rest of him was "too gruesome" to be shown....which would mean the rest of him must've been blown off or mangled, so how could he try to run away? I believe this with a grain of salt, like I do all other reports.
But one thing we do know for sure....the bastard's DEAD!
Posted by: Laura at June 09, 2006 09:04 AM (WeRWZ)
Posted by: Spanky at June 09, 2006 09:57 AM (Xk8Hy)
Posted by: Nice man at June 10, 2006 08:50 PM (c7ncZ)
Posted by: ARGENTO at June 10, 2006 11:09 PM (tuzo2)
Posted by: Jester at June 11, 2006 04:16 PM (TuAMG)
The very term "terrorist" denotes one who uses terror as a primary weapon.
Guess what? They win-even when you blow one up. They'll just recruit another one. You, on the other hand, still go to bed afraid, and still allow your government to strip your "American way of life" in the interests of "security". You still keep spending boatloads of money that could be fortifying dikes in LA, sending boatloads of men to die in Iraq that could instead be helping to rebuild New Orleans. You think blowing up one guy or even 1000 guys is going to make the rest of them run and hide? You obviously don't get the mentality of these ppl.
There is only one way to win the "war on terror".
Stop making it a war. Go about your day, live your life like it's your last day on earth, stick up for your constitutional rights. Be an American. Sure, there will still be bombs, hijackings, and shootings. But there's also going to be earthquakes, floods, cat 5 hurricanes, tsunamis, and other natural disasters that take lives. There's gonna be car accidents, and gas line explosions, and house fires, and heart attacks, and cancer, and accidental overdoses, and drownings, and all other manner of death.
So ask yourself if it's worth the headache.
Posted by: CanadianThinker at June 12, 2006 12:53 AM (kl/Lw)
Posted by: pual at June 12, 2006 03:32 PM (c7ncZ)
This is Abu Musab Al Zarqawi. I have come back from the dead to tell you that Allah has run out of virgins. Instead, you will all have to screw your own mothers after you die as martyrs. I personally have chosen to screw my mother's rear end for all eternity here in heaven. Allah bless you and curse the American Satan!!!
Yours truly,
Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi
Posted by: Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi at June 13, 2006 02:15 PM (jmn+D)
In closing, let me say that for what ever reason we are still there, I may not support the reasons, but none the less, I support the troops. They are doing the job they are there for. I support the civilians that are there supporting the troops and wish them Godspeed. I also support the Iraqi nation and hope that after this is all done, they find democracy in their own time in their own way. My heart goes out to all the families that have lost loved ones of ALL nations whether through military actions, accidents, health problems, or death by cowards. They have done their jobs and they are remembered by at least one.
Posted by: Takamo at July 18, 2006 12:38 AM (b0TPK)
May 06, 2006

John Gibson via FOXNEWS : This was the raw tape of the Zarqawi video propaganda session in which he was to portray himself as the Arab superhero slaying the enemies of the Arab people and the enemies of Islam as well.A reasonable test methinks.That's why the black jihadi outfit. That's why the Popeye forearms. That's why the gun blasting away. That's why it hurts that he doesn't know how to actually operate the weapon. The tough guy needs his helper to figure out his gun.
In the Arab world this didn't play so well, which figures.
But on the other hand, the Americans evidently come out looking bad on this too.
That's the part that sounded weird to me…
...."The reason the Americans haven't captured or killed al-Zarqawi is that they need an Al Qaeda connection to justify their occupation of Iraq."
I guess they haven't heard we actually want to leave Iraq.
I suggest to any Iraqi who knows where Zarqawi is, please, test the Americans on this point.
Tell the Americans where he is and see if they ignore the information and let him go on with his bombing and beheading, or whether the Americans take the information, go to the location and leave a smoking crater where Zarqawi was last seen standing.
Hat Tip: Michael Hampton who is hosting the Video on youtube here more...
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Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at May 06, 2006 06:11 AM (0yYS2)
May 05, 2006

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Posted by: Michael Hampton at May 05, 2006 08:38 PM (FVbj6)
Clay I wish you invisible and walked into my room.
Be allright tonight!!
Posted by: Cindy Mc at May 05, 2006 10:17 PM (y6n8O)
April 26, 2006

UPDATE: I've added the full transcripts below.
Interestingly, the video shows Zarqawi railing against Zionism and linking the fight against America in Iraq to the fight against Israel. Why is this so intriguing? Because the full video highlights the use of Qassam rockets in Iraq....the rocket developed by none other than the new leaders of the Palestinian Authority, Hamas.
Hat tip to Allahpundit, now blogging at Hot Air. more...
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Posted by: Dan at April 26, 2006 01:16 PM (Z2OsI)
Posted by: Jester at April 26, 2006 03:10 PM (TuAMG)
Where are the lions of Salah Aldeen?
Didn't I see dogs eating their bloated corpse flesh, on the streets of Fallujah?
Posted by: davec at April 26, 2006 08:16 PM (CcXvt)
Posted by: RepJ at April 26, 2006 09:11 PM (+6FAX)
Posted by: Richard at April 26, 2006 09:31 PM (7KF8r)
What's this part all about:
O’ Banner’s holders stand,
Where are the lions of Anbar?
Where are the lions of Salah Aldeen?
Where are Baghdad’s men?
Where are the knights of Ninawah and the champions of Dyalah?
Where are the courageous of Kurdustan?
Where are you the lions of Monotheism?
Posted by: Mohab Dinkerhoff at April 27, 2006 01:48 AM (FzCpE)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at April 27, 2006 05:08 AM (0yYS2)
Where are the lions of Anbar?
Where are the lions of Salah Aldeen?
Where are Baghdad’s men?
I have difficulty understanding this jibberish, but it seems like this is bald-face pleading for new recruits, indicating they are running low on slugs. Or am I making too much of this?
Posted by: Mohab Dinkerhoff at April 27, 2006 12:58 PM (MswPd)
Sudan here we come! We'll stop off to fatten once we are out of Iraq. Because fat boy eats everything and we don't expect a big lunch in Sudan but we may live longer.
Posted by: Howie at April 27, 2006 01:07 PM (D3+20)
Posted by: Last gasp Larry at April 28, 2006 10:52 AM (FCC6c)
He is not alluding to the crusades. The arabic words you see there are the names of Provinces and areas within Iraq.
Posted by: Jac Medius at April 30, 2006 07:08 AM (4H5/0)
April 25, 2006

The leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, has appeared in a new 34 minute high-production value video released by the media arm of the terrorist umbrella organization known as The Mujahidin Shura Council. The Jawa Report has obtained a copy of the video. Images from it are shown throughout this post. A translation of a statement released by the Mujahidin Shura Council is posted below.
UPDATE: I've added a transcript of the video below. You can watch the Zarqawi video with English subtitles by clicking here. The MEMRI translation only covers portions of the 34 minute long video showing Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's monologue.
For a copy of the video, please e-mail the author of this post directly at the contact information above. UPDATE: You can view the video here, but it is a mother of a download. UPDATE II: Apparently BKP is banned at some workplaces--alternate video downloading here. Update III: Here is a synopsis video from the MSM. The original is 34 minutes.
Several things are striking about the video. The first thing is that Zarqawi is shown with an American assault weapon, and not the standard AK-47 wielded by terrorists. Second, the high-production value of the video means that it must have been weeks in the making. If it was timed for release to coincide with the Egyptian bombings yesterday, then a great deal of coordination must have gone into it. Last, the high-production value of the video also suggests that it was not a reaction to the appointment of a new PM in Iraq. However, the statement released today by The Mujahidin Shura Council is clear that they are worried about it [statement below].
The video also comes on the heels of several reports which suggested that Zarqawi had a) been demoted from the leadership of al Qaeda in Iraq b) been officially disavowed by the Shura Council. Neither now appears to be the case.
What is not being reported in the media, though, is that Osama bin Laden's voice is also in the video. This suggests that Zarqawi's group was in possession of the audio before its popular release yesterday.
In a rare video posted on the Internet, al-Qaida in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi accused the West and the United States of waging a “crusader†war against Islam, but said Muslim holy warriors were standing firm.Athena notes:He also said the formation of a new government in Iraq was an attempt to help the United States get out of what he called the dilemma it faces in Iraq.
“Your mujahedeen sons were able to confront the most ferocious of crusader campaigns on a Muslim state. They have stood in the face of this onslaught for three years,†Zarqawi said on the video.
He is also wearing a suicide vest, which would corroborate statements by Sheikh Abu Omar al-Ansari, who met him in Iraq, that he wears this vest in order to "martyr" himself in this instance that Coalition forces (or angry Iraqis) come very close to apprehending him.However, it looks more like a standard AK-47 ammo vest to me.

Over at CT, Bill Rogio notes that this may be a sign that the new PM of Iraq has hurt al Qaeda's cause there.
UPDATE: Walid Phares (personal note to Walid: what happened to you at the MPSA?) has a pretty detailed analysis here. Apparently the video was made on the 21st. The bin Laden audio was released on the 23rd.
Wizbang links this analysis from DEBKA:
Our sources reported Monday that the Egyptian authorities are investigating whether a 10-man cell reportedly held ready by Zarqawi in N. Sinai or Gaza for a large-scale attack was responsible for the third Sinai bombing attack in two years.More at Stop the ACLU and Hot Air.
UPDATE: New York Times shows its brilliance with this headline, "Video Appears to Show Zarqawi Urging on Insurgents". Because, you know, we wouldn't want the NY Times to go out on a limb here. Here's part of the story:
The grainy images in today's video showed him accompanying armed fighters in black vests through sandy terrain in what was an apparent training mission. It also showed him seated on the floor in a room with several fighters with their faces covered in black.Which leads me to believe that Christine Hauser at the Times hasn't seen the video which is about as crystal clear as I've ever seen. In fact, the video runs at 512 mbs. I had to make the images smaller for this post as the originals would have taken nearly the entire center column! If you read the rest of the column, you realize that what Hauser had done was read an AFP story and then simply repeated most of it!
Hat tip: AWOL GI at the forum more...
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Also, he looks exhausted…dog-tired… worn out. Is there any life to his voice, or do his inflections sound as defeated as these still images suggest?
Posted by: Bob Owens at April 25, 2006 02:02 PM (g5Nba)
I have said here several times the last year that my liberal Presient's PC AG was not up to the task. One of my points has been the maladroit,slovenly handling of the Umer Hayat case. Well the verdict is now in. Alberto got his lunch eaten for him; again.
Either Bush does not want to win the War on Terror or he is just too far to the left to promote people based on ability; not their skin color.
Posted by: Rod Stanton at April 25, 2006 02:24 PM (SACIn)
Posted by: J Summers at April 25, 2006 02:25 PM (y7gpG)
Posted by: Howie at April 25, 2006 03:10 PM (D3+20)
And there he is with that finger in the air when he talks. Al despots and fascists do that regularly. I don't know why.
Posted by: Oyster at April 25, 2006 03:18 PM (VzV77)
Posted by: Rusty at April 25, 2006 03:24 PM (JQjhA)
Hey I had a rocket just like that called the Estes Mean Machine. Very similar looking. One can build a rocket like that from many model rocket companies over the internet. It's a great sport you can go as big as your wallet allows.
Posted by: Howie at April 25, 2006 03:31 PM (D3+20)
Posted by: sk8 at April 25, 2006 03:33 PM (y6dNe)
Posted by: Howie at April 25, 2006 03:48 PM (D3+20)
http://www.bsdrocketry.com/
http://www.a2zhobbies.com/Rockets.html
http://www.commonwealth.net/rocketstore/
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/rockets.html
http://www.nar.org/
http://www.rocketfun.com/
Posted by: Howie at April 25, 2006 03:52 PM (D3+20)
Jesus Christ, how many times was "Al-Zarqawi" arrested, killed, deported, escorted and wounded in the past? Stop propagating the propaganda.
Wake up, you slaves.
MEEEEEEH, Meeeehhhh....TERRORISTS ARE GONNA GET YOU, GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS.
Meeeehhh.
Posted by: Zlatko Grozl at April 25, 2006 04:17 PM (WVc4h)
First, what is the Z-man doing with a 5.45mm AKSU in Iraq? (the little AK Sub-machinegun behind him, that you ALWAYS see in OBL's old videos) The Iraqis use the 7.62mm variant of the AK and, as far as I know, haven't used the 5.45mm variant (at least, not in any quantity - can some who have been in Iraq confirm this?). Therefore, ammo must be hard to get - unless you don't actually shoot it at the "Crusaders" much - or maybe it is just a "Lookee here! I'm in Al Queda, too!" prop.
Posted by: cliffg at April 25, 2006 04:19 PM (IN/2Q)
Posted by: jesusland joe at April 25, 2006 04:28 PM (rUyw4)
Maybe, it is time to love them to death.
Peace be on you brothers, and may allah, (spit), give you wives that do not look like your mother's back bla, bla, bla mohammad, (spit), peace be on him, also jehad, jehad POS idiots!
ROPMA
Posted by: Leatherneck at April 25, 2006 04:38 PM (D2g/j)
And what the hell is up with that decor? While making the video his wife must have been yelling at him constantly about not getting any gun oil on her cushions.
Posted by: Graeme at April 25, 2006 05:24 PM (N5vCl)
Posted by: jesusland joe at April 25, 2006 05:28 PM (rUyw4)
Posted by: dude at April 25, 2006 05:32 PM (CW9G2)
Sort of like that other brave scumbag Che -- never killed anybody who didn't have his hands tied behind him.
Posted by: Wood Yi at April 25, 2006 05:39 PM (Cs03u)
Posted by: Leatherneck at April 25, 2006 06:05 PM (D2g/j)
Posted by: Graeme at April 25, 2006 06:22 PM (N5vCl)
Posted by: ShannonKW at April 25, 2006 07:50 PM (dT1MB)
It isn't the looks of the SOCOM that I like so much, but the butt-kicking power of the .308 cal bullet. It is dynamite compared to the .223 Rem.(5.56mm), and is also much better than the 7.62 Russian.
Don't get me wrong, Graeme, I like my AK-47 very much, and I also have 2 Ruger Mini-14's in .223 cal that I like to shoot, but do not consider powerful enough for heavy use. I absolutely hate the M-16 and all its variants. Sorry, all you M-16 fans out there, but that is how I feel after owning one for ten years. Traded it for a Mini-14 and a Colt .45 cal auto. Best damn trade I ever made.
Posted by: jesusland joe at April 25, 2006 07:55 PM (rUyw4)
Posted by: EDH at April 25, 2006 08:06 PM (ZBnKn)
Brad, it has now become your job to snuff out ole Abu.
Posted by: jesusland joe at April 25, 2006 08:12 PM (rUyw4)
He does look tired, but well-fed, which tells me that he's hiding out but not sleeping much, and is probably moving at night and trying to sleep whenever he can. The house where the video was filmed apprears clean and well-kept, so he probably has a rich patron, or even a government official helping him out. Or they might have just murdered the rightful occupants and taken their place.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at April 26, 2006 05:45 AM (0yYS2)
Posted by: delta at April 26, 2006 05:49 AM (W32Cn)
Posted by: Oyster at April 26, 2006 06:09 AM (YudAC)
I fear it is more likely that Abu and co will come for me here in the “People’s Republicâ€.
This aint Texas bro.
Posted by: Brad at April 26, 2006 07:23 AM (BJYNn)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at April 26, 2006 07:48 AM (0yYS2)
Hmm...Brad, it looks like they are getting desperate and have called in reinforcements from San Francisco. The Redneck Regiment is at your disposal if you need us, Brad. Get back to me if ole Abu shows his face!
Posted by: jesusland joe at April 26, 2006 04:41 PM (rUyw4)
Posted by: stacey at April 28, 2006 01:06 PM (bHzNB)
Posted by: Alibababoobie at May 07, 2006 12:58 PM (iEmfh)
Posted by: Terorist at May 23, 2006 06:29 PM (fi+xq)
Posted by: tarek at June 06, 2006 03:39 AM (G0FQB)
Posted by: moren at June 09, 2006 05:08 AM (jwMm7)
November 21, 2005
*Sigh*
Not that killing the al Qaeda in Iraq leader--and the man personally responsible for beheading innocent civilians---would really end the Salaafist insurgency in Iraq. It wouldn't. But it would be nice to know he was dead.
Vengeance: natures way of calming the nerves.
Of course over at dKos, when the erroneous news that Zarqawi dead broke, there were immediate signs of dismay. For the hardcore Left, any good news for our troops is bad news for them. They have pinned their political hopes on the defeat of our troops.
Not that they ever would come out and say, "We hope we lose."--Okay, occasionally they do actually let that slip from time to time-- But they do constantly downplay any good news and constantly barrage us with 'cover up' stories when there is even the slightest hint that some civilian in Fallujah might have got his feelings hurt because a U.S. soldier didn't present a search warrant from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals upon entering his house in the middle of a firefight.
Hence, the Left is skeptical of any and all progress in Iraq.
So, if we seem to bring you too many "Yipee, Zarqawi is dead" stories, please forgive us. Unlike our friends on the Left, we are anxious to see the enemies of the United States of America dead.
Call it being overzealous for the cause of America.
On Saturday, police Brig. Gen. Said Ahmed al-Jubouri said the raid was launched after a tip that top Al Qaeda operatives, possibly including al-Zarqawi, were in the two-story house.However, Trent Duffy, a White House spokesman, said Sunday that reports of al-Zarqawi's death were "highly unlikely and not credible."
"I don't think we got him," said U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, answering questions from reporters about whether al-Zarqawi had been killed in Mosul. Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, said there was "no indication" that the terror leader had been killed.
Hat tip: Ron Wright who pointed us to this post by Evan Kohlmann and Dan Riehl, who has more here.
UPDATE: Howie e-mails me with this article from CNN. Apparently, Zarqawi's family and 'tribe' have disowned him. Don't worry al-Khalaylehs, every family has a 'Zarqawi' or two they are ashamed of.
UPDATE II: Let me be clear on this, I used the word 'hard Left' to describe those who want us to lose not 'liberal' or 'Democrat'. Yes, I believe the people over at dKos want us to lose. They don't want our soldiers to die, but they do want us to lose. They actually believe America is the greatest force for evil in the world. If you believe that then the conclusions to be drawn are inevetable.
If we are the bad guys then the only thing for a moral person to do is to support our enemies.
And, yes, wishing for the U.S. to pull out of Iraq now is the same thing as wishing for our enemies to win.
It doesn't matter if in your heart you love America. Withdrawal is failure. Hence, wishing withdrawal now is wishing failure.
I am not Jesus. I don't care what is in your heart. What I care about is the extent to which you support the victory of the United States of America.
In the comments though, Ryan (unlike the madmatt troll) raises a legitimate concern wanting some evidence that the Left celebrates. Okay Ryan, here you are. Of course, they don't come out and say "Hooray, Zarqawi" but they do boo the home team. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
From the Democratic Underground:
I wonder when he can stop talking about Zarqawi, I want a new Boogie Man!Nothing will happen with Zarqawi until October 2006 Just in time for the election, in an appearance to make it look "normal" when Diebold once again scams an election.
We can't pull out of Iraq now. After all, we almost caught Zarqawi. I'll bet if we stay another year we'll almost catch him 10 or 12 more times. Plus we'll kill his No. 2 man at least twice. What a steaming crock of bullshit.
I don't think Al Zarqawi was there, and I don't think they thought he was there. This is like all those stories about how certain they were that they had killed Hussein in the first bomb attack of the war, or that they'd killed Bin Laden when they murdered that poor farmer and his two sons with their unmanned drone. They just want Americans to say "Wow, look, they have a reason for all this stuff" and go back to watching Family Guy before BushCo quietly says "Well, we missed him, but it was close."
It's a good thing they missed him...otherwise they would have to invent another Al-Qaida terroist for us to focus on.
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Posted by: madmatt at November 21, 2005 09:01 AM (h1rMx)
Posted by: Graeme at November 21, 2005 09:03 AM (nt3NF)
Posted by: Graeme at November 21, 2005 09:09 AM (nt3NF)
Posted by: john Ryan at November 21, 2005 09:12 AM (ads7K)
But don't you DARE question their patriotism.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2005 09:12 AM (8e/V4)
How's everyone doin'??
Posted by: Laura at November 21, 2005 09:15 AM (L3PPO)
Unbelievable! What are you guys smoking? No wonder the Right is burning up the last shreds of credibility.
Posted by: Ed at November 21, 2005 09:23 AM (yfKhZ)
"Celebrations ? Rusty could you give any links to that nonsense ?"
Okay John, www.liberalsmustalldie.com, there's your link.
"I would like to see why anyone who celebrate."
Look in the mirror perhaps.
"The only 2 leftie sites I know web addresses for are antiwar.com and the kos site."
Gee, I wonder how you know those two...
"Yesterday I plowed through about 1/3 of the 150 or so comments on the kos site and none seem to show any celebrations."
Yeah, more like an atmosphere of general glee. I guess they're saving the champagne until he releases his next headchopping video. Liberals all need to be killed in as painful a manner as may be contrived by modern technology.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at November 21, 2005 09:31 AM (0yYS2)
The fact that you feel the need to lie about the issue says an awful lot about the security of your position.
Posted by: Tom Ames at November 21, 2005 09:34 AM (XuQJ6)
Just how stupid do you think your readers are? You must have a pretty low opinion of your wingnut buddies if you think that "logic" makes any sense at all.
What am I saying? You all bought into Bush's idiotic war, so you must be very gullible or very slow. You probably think everything Rush says is gospel, too.
NOBODY celebrated the report that Zarkawi wasn't among the dead. He's a murdering terrorist who deserves death and I defy you to find a single Liberal who actually was pleased he escaped.
And your misleading headline doesn't accomplish anything but brand you as a liar.
Posted by: Percy's PoP at November 21, 2005 09:35 AM (CMyz0)
Posted by: jimbo at November 21, 2005 09:41 AM (5Caqu)
Really, man. If you want to make an argument against liberals, don't make it so stupid. You hurt the cause.
Posted by: Bruce at November 21, 2005 09:47 AM (SSjeP)
Posted by: Paul Turner at November 21, 2005 09:47 AM (4lS1R)
"The death if Zarqawi would be a positive step in fighting terrorism and, one hopes, suppressing the violence in Iraq."
Why do you call this a sign of dismay?
Can't you stop lying for even a moment?
Stupidity: it's a renewable resource!
Posted by: Fred at November 21, 2005 09:49 AM (eO3MK)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at November 21, 2005 09:52 AM (0yYS2)
Untreated syphilis can damage the brain and cause dementia.
Posted by: circlethewagons at November 21, 2005 09:52 AM (7Fqgx)
If we win, you lose but can continue to live in a free country and have all the rights free men enjoy, including, as demonstrated here, freedom of speech and expression. If the other side wins, you will be put to death, pay the dhimmi tax, be forced into slavery or have to convert to Islam. The way I see it, I prefer to win the war, but you libs, well, you seem to want to test fate. So be it.
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 21, 2005 09:55 AM (rUyw4)
It is really stunning how disgusting some people can become with a keyboard in their hand.
I'm off now to take a shower and wont be back. May I suggest that as an appropriate response for the rest of the commenters?
Posted by: Observer at November 21, 2005 10:11 AM (8x2CG)
Posted by: norbizness at November 21, 2005 10:12 AM (EneHm)
Are all liberals opponents of the Iraq war?
Are all opponents of the Iraq war liberals?
Are all liberals the same?
Are they secular humanists and elitist academics, who drink chardonnay, drive Volvos, speak french, and just want to give Zarqawi a great big fat hug?
Or are they dirty scruffy pot smokers and filthy degenerates who just want to root for the downfall of America?
Because, as we all know, Islamofascists love secularism and alcohol.
And they really really dig sex, drugs and rock and roll.
Posted by: circlethewagons at November 21, 2005 10:14 AM (7Fqgx)
Posted by: Independent at November 21, 2005 10:17 AM (2MDoJ)
So I guess Bush was right after all-- they do hate us for who we are, they hate us for our freedoms. Thanks for affirming that.
So are you libertines as willing to change your lifestyles in order to suit the terrorists as you are to see the U.S. change its policies to suit them? I think not. What could be more ironic than a dope smoking morally degenerate Liberal calling for the U.S. to change its policies in order to make fundamentalist islamic terrorists stop hating us. Too rich. It boggles the mind how myopic you people are.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2005 10:24 AM (8e/V4)
"This Shackleford guy seems to be the absolute lowest of the low. It is really stunning how disgusting some people can become with a keyboard in their hand."
Somewhere a pot and a kettle are laughing hysterically at that statement.
Posted by: Graeme at November 21, 2005 10:24 AM (nt3NF)
"The death if Zarqawi would be a positive step in fighting terrorism and, one hopes, suppressing the violence in Iraq.
What it will not be however, is a solution for our troubles in Iraq, whose roots are political in nature. Zarqawi is not and has not been the source of our troubles in Iraq. It is the intractable political problems of the sectarian power struggle between Shia, Sunni and Kurd."
Dr. Shackleford describes this as "dismay."
Dr. Shackleford is a liar. Unambiguously so.
Posted by: Geek, Esq. at November 21, 2005 10:25 AM (2yc8s)
I realize in asking these questions I am hurting the American troops, for that I am sorry...but I just had to know.
Posted by: Sean Braisted at November 21, 2005 10:27 AM (dXncd)
Damn you editorial board!!!
;-)
Posted by: The Ghost of Macktastick Rusty Wicked at November 21, 2005 10:38 AM (JQjhA)
If you read all the comments in the entire thread it becomes clear that the majority of people there would prefer to have Zarqawi alive and well if his death would mean potential help for the President.
Posted by: traderrob at November 21, 2005 10:40 AM (3al54)
Personally, I think some of the commenters are 'idiots'.
But that is just my opinion. Opinions, by definition, cannot be 'lies'.
But thanks for playing.
Posted by: The Ghost of Macktastick Rusty Wicked at November 21, 2005 10:44 AM (JQjhA)
If a fight breaks out between fascists like yourself and liberals like me, don't be so damn cocky about who would win.
First of all, we outnumber you. Check the polls.
Second, many of us support the entire Bill of Rights which includes the Second Ammendment (yes, I'm armed). And I can use it. Like many Liberals, I'm ex-military.
Third, currently unarmed Liberals could learn to use a gun faster than you could learn to stay alive on a battlefield. Brains are more important than balls - ask any vet. And reading the posts above there is no doubt in my mind which side is smarter.
So go ahead and start a civil war. I look forward to putting a cap through your pinhead. It would be a challenge to put one through your brain, but ohhhhhh, so satisfying...
Posted by: joviel at November 21, 2005 10:46 AM (tgsAE)
I think the overwhelming defeat of the cut and run resolution has something to do with it, and the thought of Zarqawi being killed scared them as well.
Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at November 21, 2005 10:49 AM (RHG+K)
joviel,
us "fascists" are well armed. I personally have 2,000 rounds of armour piercing just waiting for you to bring it. And I know where to instantly get 2,000 more. What are you going to use? Foul language? Your own anti-gun dogma has reduced you to no better than sheep to the slaughter if you ever think to bring your "revolution". We'll gleefully mow you down by the thousands.
And no, you don't outnumber us. Temporary dissaproval of Bush doesn't a Liberal make. Every poll puts self-proclaimed Liberals in this country at less than 20%, while self-proclaimed conservatives approach 35%. Just bring it dudes.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2005 10:54 AM (8e/V4)
I was in Desert Storm, and I know what soldiers complain about, and I'm just not seeing much of that from the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, but rather bright, optimistic men and women, some no more than children to my eyes now, who believe in what they are doing and who want to help the people of Iraq become free and prosperous, so that we never have to fight them again. If only political correctness hadn't stopped us from taking out Saddam in '91, we wouldn't be here today, but the liberals interfered then too, and look where it got us; into another war.
For any society, war is eventually inevitable, because all it takes is a madman to invade peaceful neighbors, but many are avoidable if only the leadership has the backbone to do what is necessary when necessary. If Europe and America had stood up to Hitler at the first, he never would have invaded Poland or Czekoslovakia, but we didn't so we had to fight another war because of our leaders' timidity and shortsightedness. There is no such thing as "peace in our time" without the willingness to fight for it.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at November 21, 2005 10:56 AM (0yYS2)
Posted by: Max Scheinin at November 21, 2005 10:57 AM (N0a7W)
No?
I guess Max is too busy spending time between San Francisco and NYC. Man, I love characitures that are real........
Posted by: The Ghost of Macktastick Rusty Wicked at November 21, 2005 11:06 AM (JQjhA)
lying is out of the question."
Let's roll the tape. Dr. Shackleford wrote that "when the erroneous news that Zarqawi dead (Dr. Shackleford write like Tonto talk), there were immediate signs of dismay. For the hardcore Left, any good news for our troops is bad for them. They have pinned their political hopes on the defeat of our troops."
For this, he cites this quote from a liberal: "The death of Zarqawi would be a positive step in fighting terrorism, and one hopes, suppressing the violence in Iraq."
Either Dr. Shackleford is a liar, or he should consider remedial reading.
Posted by: Geek, Esq. at November 21, 2005 11:06 AM (2yc8s)
I personally hope Fundamentalists all over will realise the futility of their cause, embrace centrisms (or acceptance of other POVs) and this world will be a better place because of it. Unfortunately I'm not optomistic enough to think that will happen.
Posted by: Sean Braisted at November 21, 2005 11:13 AM (dXncd)
So-called conservatives who think they're fighting the war on terrorism when the policies (and in particular, the moronic Iraq war diversion) they support are actually helping to lose the war on terror.
Posted by: circlethewagons at November 21, 2005 11:18 AM (7Fqgx)
The real point is this: OBL got away because Cheney's merry little bund turned its attention away to Iraq.
Posted by: ATS at November 21, 2005 11:22 AM (aDFHl)
The real point is this: OBL got away because Cheney's merry little bund turned its attention away to Iraq.
Posted by: ats at November 21, 2005 11:23 AM (aDFHl)
Posted by: john Ryan at November 21, 2005 11:32 AM (ads7K)
Posted by: jimbo at November 21, 2005 11:38 AM (5Caqu)
Shall I make a big blog headline out of that saying "Conservatives call for the destruction of America"? It would be as big a lie as your rantings that liberals openly support the killing of American soldiers.
Improbulus, I've argued with you before and you just spit venom and vulgarities without any kind of reason or thought. Rant away, so that all will know you for the fool you are.
I do hope you meet up with my son someday. He's a Marine, a Liberal and a Democrat - and proud of all three. According to your silly rant he should be rooting for his own death in Iraq. Since he's a liberal and you are calling for the death of all liberals, maybe the headline should be "Conservative calls for death of American Marines."
Then again, I doubt you'd really want to meet up with him. He has this silly idea that the Constitution means we're all equal citizens, left, right, liberal, conservative, man, woman, etc. And that anyone who wishes for the death of other Americans like you do, doesn't have a very good grasp of what being a Patriot or an American is all about.
Posted by: Percy's PoP at November 21, 2005 11:51 AM (CMyz0)
Posted by: Rodney King at November 21, 2005 12:22 PM (IpG/2)
circlejerk,
you're just spouting neo-Lib talking points. You haven't a shred of empirical evidence that we're "losing" the war on terror. So far, zero terrorist strikes on the U.S., that's my evidence.
The neo-Lib message is so convoluted and backasswards that half of you neo-Libs don't even believe terrorism is a real threat, and the other half of you believe that "we had it coming to us" because of our "foreign policies". Yet the same hippie degenerates who decry our "foreign policy" are the first decadent westerners jihadis would decapitate if they had the chance. You're a bunch of clueless morons with a death wish.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2005 12:49 PM (8e/V4)
Posted by: circlejerk at November 21, 2005 12:54 PM (7Fqgx)
Posted by: circlejerk at November 21, 2005 01:07 PM (7Fqgx)
Posted by: circlejerk at November 21, 2005 01:08 PM (7Fqgx)
Isn't this the same Zarqawi whose training camp the Pentagon located 2-3 times before the Iraq invasion, but Bush chose not to bomb his camp because he feared it would undermine the case for going in? And then Colin spent all this time in his 2003 UN speech talking about how bad Zarqawi was, as a reason for attacking Iraq, despite no cooperation between Zarqawi and Saddam.
"On at least three occasions between mid-2002 and the invasion of Iraq, the Pentagon presented plans to the White House to destroy [Zarqawi's] Khurmal camp. Each time the White House declined to act or did not respond at all."
http://www.slate.com/id/2108880
The article estimates Zarqawi alone is responsible for 1000 deaths since then, deaths that only happened because of political opportunism by your personal heroes.
Posted by: clb72 at November 21, 2005 01:12 PM (MGcSD)
That's pathetic. What is the average period of time between (Islamic) terrorist strikes in the US? 10 years or so? I sincerely hope that the efforts of the Bush administration will help slow down the terrorists, but there's really no way to measure. I do know that the frequency of terror strikes happening in Iraq since we invaded is practically daily, and at huge cost to the people we're supposedly trying to liberate. Imagine how they must feel when Bush says we're fighting terrorists there so we won't have to at home. No wonder 85% of them want us to leave.
Posted by: Randy at November 21, 2005 01:27 PM (bc3Ko)
let me show you mine:
"That year [1996] the government of Sudan offered to arrest bin Laden, then living in its capital city, and turn him over to American authorities, the Washington Post and several British newspapers reported last week. This prompts two questions: If President Clinton could have taken bin Laden into custody, prosecuted him for murderous attacks on Americans in Somalia and spared the lives of thousands who were killed or wounded in future attacks, why didn't he do it?"
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/rminiter/?id=95001289
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2005 01:38 PM (8e/V4)
Randy,
circlejerk appears to have figured out a way to measure it. Ask him. I did, and so far zip, nada, bupkiss.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2005 01:40 PM (8e/V4)
Posted by: john Ryan at November 21, 2005 01:46 PM (ads7K)
The White House hasn't clearly answered that question, and that is a large part of the problem, IMHO.
Do you define it as the destruction of terrorist organizations and the rouge governments that support them? If so, we've still got Syria and Iran to go for sure, and potentially other countries as well.
Do you define it as the destruction of radical Islam? That would involve not only overthrowing governments, but eradicating entirely the most violent sects of Islam, and ruthlessly hunting down its members and destroying them. After what Germany attempted to do in WWII this seems unpalatable to most, but it is possible. The British, after all, were able to destroy the Thuggee. This destruction of violent Islam would also have to be done while encouraging the more liberal forms of Islam to fill the power vacuum in Islamic countries.
Do you define victory as the total destruction of Islam itself?
I think President Bush and most people would define victory as the destruction of terror organizations and the government that support them, but Bush has gone both beyond that and has done less than that at the same time. Bush has undoubtedly brought down two terrorist-sponsoring governments in Iraq and Afghanistan, and this has triggered Libya to turn over their WMD programs, and spurred democratic revolutions in several countries. But while the governments were relatively easy to topple, cutting out terror groups is a bloody, tedious process, but one that certainly can be done. So this goal is partially over, and perhaps once we’ve established democratic governments that are strong enough to stand on their own, with military and police forces strong enough to fight their own internal terrorists, we can declare this a victory.
Or perhaps we should fight for the second or third types of victory.
Islam itself states it is incompatible with other religions that can otherwise coexist with each other. Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and Christians have all proven they can lives side-by-side with one another (and in my church at least, under the same roof), but Islam states bluntly that they world must be totally Islamic. At some point, there will perhaps be an all out war on Islam brought about by Islamic delusions of world conquest, but is now that time?
I, like Sean, hope sensible minds will take control of Islam and moderates will reform the religion. If not, they may set the stage for a war that will make the Crusades look like child’s play.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at November 21, 2005 02:27 PM (g5Nba)
Posted by: john Ryan at November 21, 2005 02:46 PM (ads7K)
Posted by: Mike Filancia at November 21, 2005 03:15 PM (c1Sxs)
Posted by: Laney at November 21, 2005 03:21 PM (a6MF7)
Posted by: John Gillnitz at November 21, 2005 03:22 PM (eHLUP)
Posted by: Mike Filancia at November 21, 2005 03:31 PM (c1Sxs)
Just for fun I still have a W sticker on my truck, and not one of you lefty shitheads have the guts to even say anything to me. Unless you are on the computer and then you pretend to be bad asses. Please, all of you lefties, it's just about pizza delivery time, you had better report to work or your mommie might kick you out of the basement. LOL!
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 21, 2005 03:37 PM (rUyw4)
Posted by: The Heretik at November 21, 2005 03:44 PM (mLyjh)
Posted by: Bill at November 21, 2005 04:11 PM (0jJ9w)
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 21, 2005 04:27 PM (rUyw4)
Mike,
funny you should say that. Most people currently fighting the war in Iraq DID vote for Bush.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2005 04:30 PM (8e/V4)
Even when the leftists and liberals did everything in their power to keep the military guys votes from being counted. The hypocricy of these liberals knows no bounds!
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 21, 2005 04:34 PM (rUyw4)
10 points if you can tell me where that's from.
Posted by: Uncle Fluffy at November 21, 2005 04:37 PM (gxVyt)
God Bless USA!!!
Posted by: jesusland twotooth at November 21, 2005 04:42 PM (YClF7)
Some of you are passionate, some apparently have some serious personality disorders. Vitriolic refexive name calling and dreaming of the deaths of those with whom you disagree are not signs of good mental health or social adjustment. They are signs of childishness and an inability to communicate in any effective way.
Make your point, back it up with facts, and maybe...just maybe someone will really consider what you are saying. But if you are compelled to toss around horrible invectives and profess hatred and intolerance of anyone of differing opinions you just label yourself as an unbalanced weirdo and I don't believe thinking people follow the lead of such hyperactive overcharged zealots of either side of this war argument. Real wisdom is never accompanied by such unwarrented dogmatic aggression.
Just my 2 cents and a plea for reason in on line discussions. This forum can be good but wading through the nut-job posts is getting a little tedious. Happy Harping!
Posted by: DMan at November 21, 2005 05:18 PM (6pXHD)
Posted by: Bill at November 21, 2005 05:25 PM (ThwLj)
The problem with liberls and democrats is that all traitors, sickos and such we have encountered on this blog are liberals and democrats. So they get grouped together. As long as the liberal establishment contains people like Greg the traitor, Colon Baber, Ernie and such you will naturally be suspect. Kick the deviates out of your group then dialogue can begin for the good of all.
I will not work with muslims when they claim Osama ben Laden and rat face Zaqueery are part of their group. I will not work with liberals while they agree with commies like Greg the traitor and Colon Baber.
Clean the grap out of your ideals or be considered one of them.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 21, 2005 05:26 PM (ZaAd/)
Better go rip that big fat W bumper sticker off your car asap.
Posted by: the_truth at November 21, 2005 05:29 PM (ocHBO)
So you hope we do "pullout and run" so you can "stick it" to the republicans? possible Iraqi civil war, emboldened Jihadi warriors, and a caliphate state, but you'll get your zinger!! what an american!
I bet you also "support the troops" right?
Posted by: dave at November 21, 2005 05:33 PM (CcXvt)
Ask for facts and I guess this is what you get; wild emotional and a mob mentality devoid of introspection or dispassionate analysis.
Ask for reason and thought and you get a red-faced rant, full of hyperbole and devoid of rational discourse. Oh well, I asked for it. Manners, like good taste or class, are something that as an adult you either have or you do not. At least its obvious who is who in here. A Boor is a boor on either side of the argument.
Posted by: DMan at November 21, 2005 05:41 PM (6pXHD)
That's (barely) debateable.
But just in case I have some great news for them: Rummy and Bush are still running the show in the war.
Posted by: Robert at November 21, 2005 05:43 PM (cETWZ)
I think that's bullshit. The distinction between "the Left" and "liberals" was made in an ass-covering addendum, and it's nothing other than silly hair-splitting anyway. In the original post, "the Left" clearly refers to those who harbor left-wing beliefs; I wonder where you draw your line between mainstream liberals and far-to-the-margins wacks. I don't see any evidence that you show much respect for either. The real distinction, to me at least, is between liberals whose beliefs reflect nothing other than knee-jerk partisanship and liberals whose views are based on actual coherent outlooks/reading up on facts (I don't think that the Iraq war should ever have been about a left/right split -- just sanity versus insanity). In any case, my response to you is that I was referring to the substance of the post and I think "Update II" is disingenuous.
I live in neither San Francisco or NYC, incidentally. Nor does splitting my time between two locations take up all my non-flying hours. Still I'm curious which liberal caricatures (and as a caricature of a liberal elitist I have to inform that you misspelled that word) I confirmed in my post. Is it the caricature of liberals who post to conservative blogs without actually reading what they're responding to? I was unaware of that one. Or is it the caricature of liberals who reside in New York state and the Bay Area? Because that's not really a caricature; it's a fact of demographics.
Best,
Max
Posted by: Max Scheinin at November 21, 2005 05:44 PM (36mN0)
CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- Leaders of Iraq's sharply divided Shiites, Kurds and Sunnis, seeking common ground for their political future together, agreed Monday there should be a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign troops, and that resistance was the right of all -- but that acts of terror should be condemned.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Egypt-Iraq-Conference.html
Posted by: bobby at November 21, 2005 05:45 PM (nP2fm)
Posted by: Bill at November 21, 2005 05:59 PM (frPZV)
"As mankind becomes more liberal they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protection of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost in examples of justice and liberality."
--- George Washington, Letter to the Roman Catholics, March 15, 1790
Posted by: Bill at November 21, 2005 06:02 PM (frPZV)
the_trooth,
maybe you've been living in a cave because you appear not to have noticed that when given a chance to vote for a troop withdrawal, only 3 Dem moonbats voted for it. The rest must have been hiding in that cave with you. Thrash about mindlessly all you want, but the troops are staying until the mission is completed and the President calls them home. You don't like it? Then win some elections for a change.
It's obvious that you absolutely need America to fail in Iraq so that you can regain political power. But we aren't going to hand Iraq to terrorist anarchy just because you Libs have a greater loyalty to party than your own country.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2005 06:17 PM (8e/V4)
That's why I sometimes refer to you as neo-Libs. You're primarily Leftists and soft stalinists, not Liberals in the traditional sense (Washington wouldn't even recognize you), while the old school Kennedy Liberals have migrated to the conservative camp.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2005 06:21 PM (8e/V4)
Comparing Kazinski and Mcveigh sickos to muslims terrorist is an example of why a shut-in should stay in the fire house. The Irish are "correctly or not" fighting for their countries freedom. Religion is a secondary issue. Mcveigh and Kazinski where not religious zealots. Comparing two killers to thousands is stupid. Mcveigh was striking back for what he perceived as liberals taking over the country. Mainly, Clintons gang of social misfits like Janet Renos killing hundreds of men, women and children at Waco, Tx.
And since you are a booring idiot with nothing new to add. Time to get lost. We've heard the same bullshit before.
Go get bugger by a muslim. That is if your boyfriend isn't one.
You can bet your ass that the sorry assed government employees that were having fun killing these people were 100% democrats. As most parasites living off the tax payers are.
Your bullshit don't hunt here.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 21, 2005 07:14 PM (ZaAd/)
Ok, how bout 99.99999% of terrorists are muslims. Better?
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2005 07:19 PM (8e/V4)
A real liberal would side with the people not the dictators. Scratch beneath the surface of the "hard left" and what you'll find is hard core green, marxist, socialist, communist - but I repeat myself.
Centrist Dem
Posted by: Demi at November 21, 2005 07:50 PM (Yxvls)
You wouldn't know a fact if it kicked you in the ass. Now go back to the DU swamp and wallow with your fellow traitors. The HYPOCRISY of you liberals is beyond the pale.
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 21, 2005 08:21 PM (rUyw4)
Ever notice how most of the posters who threaten violence and dream of killing have "Jesus" in their handle? I can see these interbred Billy-Bobs laying back, masturbating during the week to visions of disemboweled liberals twisting in the wind, then heading off to their local Southern Baptist bible-thumper on Sunday so they can proudly feel that they are more born again than their neighbors...
Guess what guys? Jesus wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire, you poor pathetic hypocrites. Tell me in what way you are one degree better than those you hate. This what religion does to the feeble-minded. I'll take a moral atheist over you amoral holyrollers anyday.
If your type gets into heaven, I'm not going. I have some standards, you know.
Posted by: Joviel at November 21, 2005 09:47 PM (tgsAE)
how bout we aren't traitors who have put loyalty to party before country in a desperate effort to regain power even if it means damaging our own country. That's gotta be good for at least a couple of degrees, no?
Posted by: dcb at November 21, 2005 10:43 PM (8e/V4)
This sounds to me like a classic case of projection.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2005 11:00 PM (8e/V4)
Posted by: john Ryan at November 21, 2005 11:02 PM (ads7K)
Posted by: DMan at November 22, 2005 03:02 AM (6pXHD)
bango. you just hung yourself with your own rope.
Posted by: Uncle Fluffy at November 22, 2005 09:47 AM (gxVyt)
You are exactly correct, but given that any society is comprised of a ratio of sane to insane people, and that the insane ones are more likely to engage in abberant behavior, such as murdering innocent people in the name of X and fighting against the US military, and that insane fanatics going against the US military have a pretty short life expectancy, the ratio quickly becomes skewed in the favor of the sane people. In Iraq, a country of 25,000,000, the US military could not hold one inch of ground if the people didn't want us there, at least not without massive slaughter on a daily basis. So, the fact that 14 of 18 provinces are peaceful, and trouble is mainly concentrated in a few cities, tells me that the "insurgency" consists of a tiny, infinitesimally miniscule minority of thugs and idiots who are lining up in the express line to go meet their god, and the rest of the people are trying very hard to live normal lives of peace and prosperity, if only their "brothers in allah" would stop murdering them.
"I personally hope Fundamentalists all over will realise the futility of their cause, embrace centrisms (or acceptance of other POVs) and this world will be a better place because of it. Unfortunately I'm not optomistic enough to think that will happen."
I hope so too, but they probably won't, because that's a one-way street with little chance to turn around. Once one is within that society, to leave means nothing less than death. Most likely, we'll have to keep killing them for a long time to come. Your lack of optimism is realistic and valid.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at November 22, 2005 10:14 AM (0yYS2)
You idiot. Jesusland is a place. It says nothing about religion. Can you be as stupid as you seem?
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 22, 2005 10:17 AM (rUyw4)
Do you even know what fascism is, little boy? And what makes you think you would win any fight? Do you have fully automatic, armor piercing protest signs or something? There are over 200 million guns in America, almost completely owned by we evil non-libtards.
"First of all, we outnumber you."
Which is why you can't win national elections. Because you outnumber us. Right?
"Check the polls."
You mean that ones that are written and conducted by liberals, in liberal areas, with questions slanted to produce a desired result? Let me poll you: Is pedophilia okay or is George Bush evil? Oh, wait, sorry, you're a liberal, so it would be "all of the above".
"Second, many of us support the entire Bill of Rights which includes the Second Ammendment (yes, I'm armed). And I can use it.
Yeah that's great. Guess what? A liberal with a gun just makes a more justifiable target. When TSHTF and you go out on a rampage with your black and islamic brothers, destroying the very city you live in, it will just make it that much easier to identify and kill you.
"Like many Liberals, I'm ex-military."
Wow, that's really impressive. What was your unit? Dates of service? Duty posts? MOS? You do know that real veterans, like me, can spot a faker a mile away, don't you?
"Third, currently unarmed Liberals could learn to use a gun faster than you could learn to stay alive on a battlefield."
You keep thinking that.
"Brains are more important than balls - ask any vet."
That's funny. Well, I am a vet of Desert Storm, and I know that battlefield survival requires brains and balls, of which you fairy-ass liberal nancy boys have none. One guy I shared a tent with in Iraq, and stood guard duty every day, told me that he would surrender rather than fight because he didn't believe we should be there in the first place. He was another liberal who joined the Army because he wanted the free college money, and was horrified when he discovered we were going to war, and actually tried to desert, but got caught. You don't impress me much, because I've seen your kind and know them well. You are chickenshit cowards who shit yourselves and run at the first sign of trouble.
"And reading the posts above there is no doubt in my mind which side is smarter."
That's so funny in so many ways that you'll never understand. Thanks for the laugh!
"So go ahead and start a civil war."
It's your fellow idiot libtards who are always going on about a revolution, so go ahead and start one, you little chickenshit punkass bitch.
"I look forward to putting a cap through your pinhead."
And I would gladly give you the opportunity, and then add your empty skull to my collection of fencepost ornaments.
"It would be a challenge to put one through your brain, but ohhhhhh, so satisfying..."
And not likely considering that you'd soil your pants and cry like a little girl at the first hostile contact. I've been shot at before, and by a real man, so I'm not worried about a little nancy-boy like you, or any other liberal waste of space.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at November 22, 2005 10:48 AM (0yYS2)
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 22, 2005 10:59 AM (8e/V4)
Posted by: THANOS35 at November 22, 2005 11:16 AM (66BHq)
Do not think for one moment that we don't know you for the traitors you are, or that you will escape justice forever. Because of the efforts of groups like the ACLU, Amnesty International, ANSWER, the Dhimmicratic party, et al, it's only a matter of time before the government is weakened to the point of being incapable of defending our nation, and then we shall see a wave of attacks as never before imagined, and our infrastructure will collapse, and there will be riots in the streets of every major city every day that will make the current events in Europe look like a frat party. That's when the gloves will come off and you will have to choose between standing with your country, or with its enemies, but it will be too late for you; you have already chosen, and your corpses will be stacked with all the other enemies of liberty, and nobody will shed a tear for you, because you are traitors.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at November 22, 2005 11:53 AM (0yYS2)
fluffy,
it's some kind of a big secret that the Left is fully vested in the defeat of American "empire" in Iraq? Not at all. The future of the American Left for decades to come depends on it. You know it, we know.
You see, we don't use the word "traitor" the way you use "nazi"-- i.e., for shock value. The American Left are LITERALLY traitors. Read Rusty's latest post for a more in-depth explanation.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 22, 2005 12:23 PM (8e/V4)
To the right, it's all about being on the winning side. They always beat their chest about winning the elections (no matter how many American voters they disenfranchise to do it).
In this case, maybe the lefties are on the side of the insurgents, because they want to be on the winning side. After all the US forces are led by Rumsfeld, and a President who couldn't lead his country out of a rainstorm.
Posted by: Robert at November 22, 2005 01:40 PM (cETWZ)
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 01:49 PM (s5QlR)
Bill,
You have no idea why the Pentagon passed on Zarqawi, therefore you have no real point to make. The best you can do from the comfort of hindsight is say it was some kind of a blunder. Beyond that it's just hot air. But it wasn't nearly the blunder Clinton made when he refused Osama Bin Laden when Sudan offered him on a platter. Answer that one if you really came here for some kind of dialogue.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 22, 2005 02:55 PM (8e/V4)
When told that Iraqi insurgents wanted to defeat the US forces, didn't our President say "bring it on"?
Oh that's right, we save the forests by opening them to logging companies, we help get cleaner air to breathe by rolling back emission standards, and we support the troops by baiting our enemies and reducing veterans benefits back home.
We also get to support the war by reducing taxes for the rich.
Makes as much sense as Christians who favor the rich over the poor.
Posted by: Robert at November 22, 2005 03:11 PM (cETWZ)
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 03:46 PM (V2qBv)
Bill,
I'm afraid your superiors have lied to you again. Here is the audiotape of Bill Clinton himself admitting to the Long Island Association in Woodbury, New York, during the group's annual luncheon in February 2002 that he refused Sudan's offer because he had no "basis" on which to hold him.
http://www.newsmax.com/audio/BILLVH.mp3
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 22, 2005 04:10 PM (8e/V4)
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 04:25 PM (V2qBv)
So, I am to assume upon hearing President Bush on TV saying that, peaceful people all over the world, grabbed their AK-47's and their Quran and headed for Iraq? ready for Jihad because Bush said "Bring it on" ?
The only people harping on those words are the left, indeed I can say without a doubt, not one terrorist, or insurgent fighting in Iraq came to do so because of a invitation from the President of the United States "Bring it on" statement.
I can also say without a doubt that the left is enbolding terrorists by attacking the troops and the war on a daily basis, with calls for a withdraw, and asking if troops should be prosecuted for "war crimes", Bin Ladens words in regards to Mogadishu is a testament to what terrorists think about the U.S armed forces, and they're correct in the fact that when the killing starts, the politicians want them home.
we support the troops by baiting our enemies
tough words to our enemies in a time of war? who has heard of such ? I'm to assume the President should tell them "we'll stop if you stop?" - "Say Uncle!!"
what about your sides plan to run? that is supporting the troops? has that not emboldened our enemies?
With all this talk of a withdrawal "Time Table" they now know, they only have to wait us out of Iraq.
Posted by: dave at November 22, 2005 04:42 PM (CcXvt)
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 04:45 PM (V2qBv)
Bill,
let's talk about Bill Clinton, then we'll talk about Bush.
The only reason Bill had no "basis" to take Osama, and that there was no "linkage" between the terrorists acts and bin Laden is because Bill was still treating terrorism as a law enforcement issue, with formal rules of criminal evidence, probable cause, proper jurisdiction and yada yada yada instead of as a national security threat issue-- even after the 1993 bombing of the world trade center. That is why he had no "basis" and no "linkage". The fact is however that we already knew Al Qaida was involved in the '93 bombing, and we already knew Osama was AQ. But treating AQ as a national security threat instead of a law enforcement issue would have been far too controversial for Bill. It was a hot potato, and Bill avoided hot potatos at any cost. Had he shown some balls, it's very possible he could have nipped this war in the bud.
Now Bush. I haven't the slightest clue why Bush or whoever neglected to bomb Zarqawi. But given that Zarqawi was pretty much a nobody back then, and that Iraq was an extremely target rich environment at the time, I'm going to chalk it to a pretty big blunder (but still smaller than Bill's) that is now only apparent in hindsight. I fail to see how "politics" had anything to do with it.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 22, 2005 04:46 PM (8e/V4)
In other words, terrorists are listening carefully to some American citizens and some American politicians, but not at all moved by something the President says.
Does that argument really make sense to you?
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 04:50 PM (V2qBv)
The politics of the Bush administration decision not to allow the killing of Zarqawi are very simple to understand and explained in the original Pentagon report: killing him would "undercut the rational for invasion." The Bush people were trying to make a case for invasion and one of their rationals was that terrorists were being trained there. They had to muddy up the issue a bit, because they knew Zarqawi was not really being trained by Saddam's people. Saddam didn't like Zarqawi because he felt Zarqawi was a religious fanatic.
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 05:00 PM (V2qBv)
Clinton fired cruise missles at a terrorist training camp when he thought bin Laden was there. He was 45 minutes late. On that day, he had spent the entire morning in deposition answering questions about oral sex. Clinton had a drug factory in the Sudan bombed. The CIA said that the factory was making explosive materials. Republicans lambasted him for this bombing, saying he was trying to "change the subject." According to the 9-11 commission report, Clinton "shook the trees" in the intelligence community relentlessly leading up to 2000. They were able to thwart a planned bombing of airports on New Years 2000. I'm really not sure what you mean by the "if he had the balls" thing. The record shows Clinton was completely immersed in fighting terrorism.
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 05:14 PM (V2qBv)
I thank you for your reply to dave.
Your reply was right on target.
A lesson for the both the left and the right is to "switch" your complaint.
That way you can see things from both sides.
Could you imagine the reaction if someone high-up in VP Al Gore's office was accused of outing a CIA agent?
Could you see Scalia dumping states rights to hand Gore the Presidency in 2000?
Could you imagine the howls of dissent if Clinton told our enemies to bring it in?
Is there any doubt we'd live in a one party country if the Dems were in charge on 9/11/2001?
This is why we need to scrap the 2-party system.
Posted by: Robert at November 22, 2005 05:16 PM (cETWZ)
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 05:24 PM (V2qBv)
My response to that is Gannon/Guckert: Secret Service and FBI records show that a male prostitute under an assumed name visited the Whitehouse at night without checking out over 15 times and the media isn't interested???!!! People who believe in a liberal media conspiracy need to explain that one to me.
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 05:38 PM (Mt1UV)
Robert, with respect, I do doubt that. Remember that when 8 servicemen were killed in Mogadishu, barely a couple months into Clinton's first term, some republicans were calling for him to resign. Throughout the 90's republicans looked for any way to bring the democrat down. If Gore were in the Oval Office on 9-11-01, I have no doubt that Congressional republicans would have called for his resignation and called for immediate investigations.
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 05:47 PM (Mt1UV)
What an idiotic statement! three words said by the President three years ago -- versus day after day of the media making statements about torture, and "possible" use of Chemical Weapons in Iraq, Cindy Sheenan, anti-war protests covered 24/7, fake coffins and "Grim Milestones", Micheal Moore movies, congressman calling for a full withdrawal of troops, hours and hours of media coverage of Senators and Congressman accusing the President of the United States of lying about the intelligence.....
Posted by: dave at November 22, 2005 06:10 PM (CcXvt)
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 06:24 PM (Mt1UV)
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 06:26 PM (Mt1UV)
Anti-war protests covered 24/7?
By who, Al-Jazeera?
I remember them briefly being covered by the press before the war. I also remember the protesters were mocked in that same coverage as "professional protesters, tree-huggers, pacafists, etc.
I think a better name for the protesters might be "prescient".
I also remember the president saying he will not govern based on the ideas of "focus groups". Which must have sent the energy company executives into a tizzy.
Posted by: Robert at November 22, 2005 06:33 PM (cETWZ)
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 06:37 PM (Mt1UV)
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 22, 2005 06:40 PM (rUyw4)
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 06:48 PM (Mt1UV)
If you believe the words of terrorists, you are indeed special.
So let me see if this makes sense to you:
United States attacks and destroys all terrorist, and insurgent resistance in the City of Fallujah.
Terrorists attack a wedding party, during a strike against civilian Hotels in Jordan killing fellow Muslim citizens then quote it was justified because of the American attack on Fallujah, I don't even know how you even had the balls to quote that.
Posted by: dave at November 22, 2005 06:48 PM (CcXvt)
Posted by: Bill at November 22, 2005 06:56 PM (Mt1UV)
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 22, 2005 06:57 PM (rUyw4)
You used one of the most unpopular terrorist attacks, to prove a point that terrorists do not care what the U.S people, or politicians say, I guess I missed the point.
It's not questioning the Government that is "unamerican" it's the constant attack against the United States armed forces, that is unamerican -- even your comments regarding civilian attacks, using chemical weapons (and you accuse me of hysteria?) point to the fundamental point I am making, you believe the worse of the U.S army at any given time, without proof or doing any research. You believe the enemy -- that my friend is unamerican.
It's the same as the people that are demonstrating outside Walter Reed and taunting wounded soldiers, and people carrying flag-draped coffins in Veterans days marches, that crosses the line from questioning the Government, to attacking the Soldiers and that is unamerican.
Posted by: dave at November 22, 2005 07:10 PM (CcXvt)
Bill,
sounds like spin to me. An argument could just as easily be made that Bush could have strengthened the terrorism case BY bombing the camp. Obviously, when handed a list of several hundred viable targets by the Pentagon, Bush made some choices, and now the usual political spinmeisters and conspiracy theorists are having their usual heyday with it.
Similarly, I'm not going to second guess Bill. Hindsight is 20/20, and I only raised the issue because people in glass houses like that shouldn't throw stones.
And I never got caught up in the Monica affair given I was a Democrat at the time. I still like Bill, actually, but he perjured himself in a sexual harrassment suit and he was rightly punished for it.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 22, 2005 07:57 PM (8e/V4)
When did Murtha, Michael Moore, etc carry out any, never mind constant, attacks against the United States armed forces?
By the way, you might want to point your missives at the Republican controlled Congress, who can't find a cut to veteran's benefits they won't support.
I don't think Bill believes the enemy, he's just pointing out what they've said.
You believe the Bush administration even though, at this point, it flies in the face of common sense.
Here's some news for you, sometimes those in authority lie.
And unless you are a CEO or part of the top-earning 1% super rich in this country, your President is not acting in your best interests.
Just thought you should know.
Posted by: Robert at November 22, 2005 07:58 PM (cETWZ)
The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win. Get it, Mr. Bush?
Michael Moore
Comparing the terrorists in Iraq, who use homicide bombs to kill civilians and united states soldiers to the founding fathers of America, and saying they'll defeat our Soldiers -- I'm sure you don't find that offensive but I'm sure the soldiers do.
Robert: He does believe the enemy:
hey were motivated by our Falluja operation in which we basically flattened an entire Iraqi town and used chemical phosphorus weapons on civilians to boot.
That isn't a quote from anywhere, that is his words.
I believe the Bush Administration because I say attacking the troops is unamerican?
Reality called, says he misses you.
Posted by: dave at November 22, 2005 08:15 PM (CcXvt)
I apologize.
I didn't realize you were in Fallujah during the attack and saw it with your own eyes.
How long have you been back?
Are you going back there anytime soon?
I hope not. I'm looking for troop-supporters, like you, to help fight the veterans benefit reductions the Republican-controlled Congress is trying to push through.
Feet still firmly planted on the ground,
Robert
Posted by: Robert at November 23, 2005 12:35 AM (cETWZ)
The liberals and democrats screwed it up. It's resonable debate only if it fits their childish view of things. Anything else is unreasonable debate. Now go get your paycheck from the taxpayers and piss and moan about not getting a raise for sitting on your ass.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 23, 2005 04:44 AM (ZaAd/)
your weakly veiled sarcasm is pretty pitiful.
let me break it down for you again so maybe you can comprehend:
"used chemical phosphorus weapons on civilians"
1. Phosphorus rounds, or shells are not chemical weapons.
2. The United States Armed Forces does not target Civilians.
You and Bill however, continue to make my point. When someone says something bad about Soldiers (murder/chemical weapons/torture/moonbat theory) you're on-board, you're so there, wearing your Che T-Shirt, and flying your American flag upside down, burning with fake outrage.
Here is a little newsflash for you if you believe that large portions of the U.S Armed forces, which is made up of your fellow countrymen have no problem murdering civilians, using chemical weapons and routinely take part in torture and murder then you're no longer questioning the Government you're attacking the soldiers.
Your ilk used to wait at airports and spit on soldiers too, and then say they were fighting against the Government and their War.
Posted by: dave at November 23, 2005 07:00 AM (CcXvt)
dave,
Robert accuses them of wantonly killing civilians with chemical weapons and the he cries in his soup for their "veterans benefits". LOL! These people just won't get their story straight. More likely he thinks he's found a wedge in yet another lame attempt to vilifiy "Bush".
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 23, 2005 08:59 AM (8e/V4)
Thank you! And thank you for defanging the trolls on this thread. They truly are scum. They demoncrats did everything in their power to disenfranchise military personel in the last election, and then they have the cheek to come in here and accuse our soldiers of all kinds of atrocities.
I tell you I am sick of their kind. I would hate to know what I would do if one of these punks even tried to spit on one of our soldiers in my presence. Jail or not, I would do everything in my power to put the little punks(guy or girl) lights out.
When all the soldiers get back, the Left in this country will have some things they will have to answer for.
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 23, 2005 10:22 AM (rUyw4)
WTF are you talking about?
You're both on this thread to vilify the left because in your tiny minds, those that think this war is wrong hate our soldiers.
(and those that think 2+2 doesn't equal 6 hate numbers).
Idiots.
Listen up morons. I like the soldiers. I feel bad they've been thrown into a disastrous situation without the proper numbers or battle gear (like the cut in veterans benefits we're not supposed to talk about that either--lest the hypocrisy becomes overwhelming).
Let me ask you. What have YOU sacraficed for this war you so believe in?
Are you paying higher taxes to support our troops?
No we cut taxes for the richest 1% earners in this country, but pay no attention to the fact our soldiers were sent to battle without the right gear.
(See, 2+2 does equal 4).
You 2 idiots couldn't give a shit about the soldiers. You're just using this canard so you won't have to admit you voted for a moron and his evil sidekick.
BTW, you're the last 2 people to admit it. Everyone else already knows.
Posted by: Robert at November 23, 2005 02:15 PM (cETWZ)
I apologize for sinking to their level in the last reply.
It's just that it's aggravating to have them make believe they miss the point so consistently.
First they start by saying the left hates our soldiers, unlike the Bush supporters.
When I point out Bush's "bring it on line", they dismiss it.
When i point out the lack of funding for the war and the vets, they miss that one too.
They may not be idiots, but they play idiots on the web.
Posted by: Robert at November 23, 2005 02:22 PM (cETWZ)
Robert
Robert accuses Soldiers of commiting atrocities in the battle for Fallujah, then wrings his hands in anguish that Veterans are not getting their benefits, what next Robert are you going to suggest we need to purchase Ace bandages for those injured by repetitive stress syndrome from kicking puppies?
Let me ask you. What have YOU sacraficed for this war you so believe in?
Are you paying higher taxes to support our troops?
Are you? no one is idiot!
let me guess you had a pan drive, to collect pans from your neighbours to melt down to make bombers ala WWII?
You 2 idiots couldn't give a shit about the soldiers. You're just using this canard so you won't have to admit you voted for a moron and his evil sidekick.
Bzzzt! wrong, I didn't vote Moron! thanks for playing!
You don't care about veterans, or the soldiers, you're just playing that card as a "zinger" towards the republicans the closest your side gets to Veteran care is standing outside Walter Reed taunting the wounded soldiers.
You're slime.
Posted by: dave at November 23, 2005 03:03 PM (CcXvt)
Posted by: Robert at November 23, 2005 03:15 PM (cETWZ)
Care to lie about me again?
The soldiers represent Americans. I am an American.
Why do you hate our soldiers??
Posted by: Robert at November 23, 2005 03:18 PM (cETWZ)
Bring it on!
Bring it on!
Bring it on!
This is what you get when a cartoon character leads your country.
Posted by: Robert at November 23, 2005 03:20 PM (cETWZ)
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 23, 2005 03:45 PM (rUyw4)
You know damned well the Demoncrats and the Left did everything in their power to disenfranchise our soldiers, and you are a liar if you say otherwise.
You accuse others of missing your points, and then ignore anything they say, so pot...kettle....black, do these words mean anything to you?
Now, what I think. I wish our soldiers were home today, not tomorrow. I have too many friends and relatives either wounded or killed(my wife's cousin was killed there last year) in Iraq already. But I have enough sense to know that we cannot leave Iraq until we have the situation stabalized, and their Army or Guard is ready to take over. If Iraq is left to the radicals, then it will be used as a springboard to engulf the region in a major war, most unlike what we have there now.
No one I know wants a war just for the sake of war, and the Left constantly saying that is nothing but a lie. If you think that, then you, sir, are wrong...wrong....wrong!
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 23, 2005 04:07 PM (rUyw4)
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 23, 2005 05:37 PM (8e/V4)
Oh that's right, because someone with a keyboard and internet access said so.
How about a little proof? And don't tell me its because some film maker made a comment about how our troops shouldn't be in Iraq.
1) he's a film maker, and 2) he's right.
Now to your second point: I agree, we need to get our troops out of harm's way, but that's going to be a difficult task. The US is in a "you broke it, you fix it" situation.
Unfortunately, I think Civil War in Iraq is inevitable due to tribal history.
I don't have any answers for how we can make this work for both the US and Iraqi citizens.
Another of my concerns is that the US does not want democracy in Iraq. Our nations history has often shown this to be the case (Chile 1973, Iran 1952, etc). Are we really going to sit by and let Iraq control their own resources and cut better deals with the Chinese than with us?
I tend to think that those who pushed this war will think it was unsuccessful if that happens.
One thing we should all (left, right and middle) have learned from this debacle is that "BEFORE we let our leaders start a war is EXACTLY the time to question them".
I'm all for disdain of the Dems and the Left, but
it's because they let themselves be cowed by a bunch of clueless cowboys.
The tough questions (like "where's the proof", "what's the plan", etc) were never asked for fear that their Patriotism would be called into play. What a bunch of weenies.
As to jesusland carlos,
I've already pointed out how concerned the republicans are for our troops. (Not at all).
So other than me and you, who else?
Happy Thanksgiving to the troops. Hope to see you back in the US soon.
Posted by: Robert at November 24, 2005 11:05 AM (cETWZ)
November 18, 2005
Foxnews: Zarqawi made clear he was not about to stop the bloodshed, warning he will attack more tourist sites in Jordan and threatening to behead King Abdullah II. He said he was targeting Jordan because it is serving as a "protector" for Israel, helps the U.S. military in Iraq and has become a "swamp of obscenity," with alcohol and prostitution in its tourist sites. "Your star is fading. You will not escape your fate, you descendant of traitors. We will be able to reach your head and chop it off," al-Zarqawi said, referring to the king.I think Zaqueery is serious eh Murtha?
Also see Jihad Watch.
Just in case you need another example of this lunacy here you go.
Still not enough? Try this. More you say?
Posted by: Howie at
10:52 PM
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Post contains 176 words, total size 2 kb.
British historian David Irving was arrested last Friday while on a speaking tour of Austria. He's charged with denying the "holocaust". In minority-dominated Europe, you can deny Jesus, you can deny that the earth is round, but you cannot question a carved-in-stone Hollywood version of World War II. In fact, you are not permitted to be a historian of WW II, only a propagandist for an establishment determined historical line. If you have any doubts or other opinions, you'd better shut up.
The Associated Press (Nov. 17, 2005) reports: "Austrian police have arrested controversial British historian David Irving on a warrant accusing him of denying the Holocaust, the Interior Ministry said today. Irving was arrested last Friday in Styria province said police Maj. Rudolf Golia, a spokesman for the Interior Ministry, and transferred to judicial prison in Graz, the provincial capital. He was detained on a warrant issued in 1989 under Austrian laws making Holocaust denial a crime, Golia said."
Freedom is desperately under attack across the Western World. Publisher Germar Rudolf has been deported from the U.S. to Germany, where he may face many years in prison for questioning some of the exterminationist assertions. The U.S.A, is awash in millions of Mexican illegals and hordes of foreign criminals, but the INS that has all but given up on the invaders, dutifully barks to the whistle of its neo-con, Israel First masters, and deportrs this studious scholar, married to a U.S. citizen and proud father of a nine-month old daughter.
Publisher Ernst Zundel now faces a continuation of his trial in Mannheim too old, too involved with Ernst or for being a revisionist. His crime under Section 130 of the German Criminal Code, involves questioning the new secular religion's doctrine about WW II.
David Irving is a prolific and highly readable WW II historian. His books on the Allied atrocities at Dresden, on Field Marshall Rommel, and on Churchill and Hitler (Churchill's War; Hitler's War) are classics. His original research has taken him to the archives of many countries and to interviews and diaries of many of the key participants and their staffs.
Having run afoul of Canada's powerful Jewish lobby, Irving was banned from Canada in 1992 largely through the efforts of cabinet minister Gerry Weiner who just happened to be -- you guessed it -- a strident Zionist. Irving has since been banned from Australia, New Zealand, Germany and Soouth Africa.
Mr. Irving's British lawyer Adrain Davies advises that Mr. Irving now has an Austrian lawyer and that he's been visited in prison by a representative of the British Foreign Office.
You can help David Irving. Phone, FAX, write or e-mail the Austrian Emnassy in your country today. Let them know that their arrest of a historian is a disgrace. It's un-European. It's the sort of anti-intellectual behaviour we'd expect in some seedy Third World dictatorship. It's unworthy of the nation that gave us the music of Mozart and Beethoven and the culture of Vienna.
Austrian Embassy in Canada,
445 Wilbrod St.,
Ottawa, ON, K1N 6M7
PH: 613-789-1444
FAX: 613-789-3431
e-mail: Ottawa-OB@BMaA.gv.at
Austrian Embassy to the U.S.A.,
3524 International Ct., N.W.,
Washington, D.C., 20008,
U.S.A.
Posted by: menenzes' ghost at November 18, 2005 11:47 PM (eYI8D)
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 19, 2005 12:15 AM (rUyw4)
Dan
Posted by: Dan at November 19, 2005 01:44 AM (9lOIm)
Like, uh, I don't know, Cuba? But then Cuba is run by Castro (and for a while that hip cat named Che) and he wouldn't summarily imprison / execute anyone without a very, very good reason, so I guess it's not worth condemning.
Posted by: Graeme at November 19, 2005 05:38 AM (0CNoJ)
Anyway, check his website for yourselves: www.fpp.co.uk
The BBC gives the following list:
COUNTRIES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Israel
Lithuania
Poland
Slovakia
Switzerland
Posted by: henry at November 19, 2005 06:57 AM (eN2p7)
You're kidding, right?
Hitler: ".. we have no intention of being emotional anti-Semites who want to create the atmosphere of a pogrom. Instead, our hearts are filled with an inexorable determination to attack the evil at its roots and to extirpate it root and branch. In order to reach our goal every means will be justified, even if we have to make a pact with the devil." [emphasis mine]
Mein Kampf, as well, is riddled with such statements.
He was fully aware of mass executions of Jewish people and to imply that he wasn't just because no one has quoted him as saying, "Kill them," is one of the most intellectually dishonest statements one can make.
I will withhold comment regarding the free speech of holocaust deniers in other countries. But there is more to the story of Germar Rudolf than meets the eye in one news report. He has not been deported. They haven't ruled yet on his legal status here and won't even be reviewing it until next year.
Posted by: Oyster's Doppelganger at November 19, 2005 07:49 AM (YudAC)
That the Holocaust happened cannot be denied, and that it has been used as a scourge against Christianity, democracy, Western civilization, and non-Jewish white people in general since it happened also cannot be denied either. There has been so much propaganda and disinformation since WW2, from all parties involved, that many actual facts have long since been discarded for profitable fiction, to the benefit of various parties, many of whom have no right to any benefits derived from reparations for crimes done in the name of a liberal socialist ideology.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at November 19, 2005 08:40 AM (0yYS2)
Actually, I myself have problems with European Denial Laws - less to do with Free Speech (its their countries and they control speech routinuely on many subjects which you would support).
These laws are actually intended to distant themselves from the actions of their own peoples and government in the past. Kinda a CYA slight-of-hand change the direction of subject kind of thing.
Posted by: hondo at November 19, 2005 08:49 AM (Jvmry)
It was a good site for those not afraid of scientific enquiry into the subject.
Posted by: Hendrik at November 19, 2005 09:29 AM (qRCLD)
Posted by: Boomerscout at November 19, 2005 09:47 AM (6krEN)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at November 19, 2005 10:56 AM (0yYS2)
Deception seems to be the primary method of anti-Revisionists:
http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/holocaust/student_revisionists_letter_to_Nizkor.htm
Posted by: Hendrik at November 19, 2005 11:11 AM (qRCLD)
Posted by: Menezes' ghost at November 19, 2005 11:14 AM (eYI8D)
Oh, any picks for Sunday's games?
A Jew, a Polack, A Mick, and a black guy go into this hardware store owned by an Eyety ... the Jew says ...
What were we taking about?
Posted by: hondo at November 19, 2005 11:42 AM (Jvmry)
Maybe if Irving had black skin and natty dreads amnesty international might come to his aid?
Oh no, they won't do that because he's not a political dissident, he's spreading "hate".
Posted by: Where is the justice? at November 19, 2005 04:36 PM (+ql9V)
Posted by: Sijima at November 19, 2005 06:06 PM (yJBT/)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at November 19, 2005 06:40 PM (0yYS2)
My troubled Jewess.
These men aren't denying that holocausts occurred, They are questioning the magic number, 6,000,000. Declaring that only 5,999,999 Jews perished is a crime. What crap.
You Zionists have learned well from your former masters, the Nazis.
Posted by: Menezes' ghost at November 19, 2005 06:59 PM (eYI8D)
my fascist friend,
The people who "question" the Holocaust are almost all anti-semites and almost all anti-semites are Holocaust deniers, hence obviously Holocaust denial is just an excuse to attack Jews. Ultimately it just helps keep the memory alive so these people are having an effect opposite of what they want. I think that anyone who commits a crime, deserves to spend some time in jail and think about what they did. Since racism is a mental disorder, I would probably favor putting these people in institutions to help them conquer the illness. Drugs, counseling, surgery, and electric shock therapy are very effective at curing other forms of dilusional paranoia and shizophrenia. Inside every racist there is a human being screaming for help. You dont have to spend the rest of your life as human garbage, hated by all of humanity, living on the fringe of soicety, you can get help, there are alot of ex-racist who overcame their affliction and became productive members of society.
Posted by: Sijima at November 19, 2005 07:40 PM (yJBT/)
Good grief, you sound like a Zionist version of Dr. Joseph Mendelev with your calls for surgery, electric shock and drugging. By emulating your former masters, the Nazis, you have become what you hate.
Fortunately, most Jews don't share your sickness; http://www.jppi.org/ inter alia.
Were on to you. AIPAC has been exposed for the spies nest it is. This just won't go away:
www.informationclearinghouse. info/article7545.htm
(REMOVE SPACES)
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=6890
Posted by: Menezes' ghost at November 19, 2005 08:16 PM (eYI8D)
Posted by: Menenzes' ghost at November 19, 2005 08:16 PM (eYI8D)
Mendelev is the chemist who invented the periodic table, Mengele is the nazi doctor who loved murdering children. I guess I am really good and chemistry, thanks. You need to spend more time reading books and less time surfing nazi propoganda sites.
Answer me one question: Why is it that the people who support racism are the trash of society? My theory is mental illness, you got a better one?
Posted by: Sijima at November 19, 2005 11:52 PM (yJBT/)
Sijimi:"Why is it that the people who support racism are the trash of society? My theory is mental illness, you got a better one?"
I beg your pardon, I have not spoken a a racist word. You whining ZioNazis play the race card so deftly. Please respond to the accusation that AIPAC is a den of spies.
Posted by: Menezes' ghost at November 20, 2005 12:16 AM (eYI8D)
Tell me about your love for muslims and Palestinians. Who are the true racists?
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."
Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin
Posted by: Menezes' ghost at November 20, 2005 12:42 AM (eYI8D)
The Jewish War On Freedom Of Speech
Corporate West causes terror in order to profit from it
by John Kaminski
ENGLEWOOD FL -- (OfficialWire) -- 11/19/05 -- One by one, those who oppose the manipulated Jewish version of history are being forcibly removed from society, and silenced because their views conflict with the program of mind-controlled slavery that has been meticulously crafted by the people who control the world by controlling the money.
Four leading historical revisionists - first, Ernst Zundel; then, Siegfried Verbeke and Germar Rudolf; now, David Irving - are all under the gun in European courts, charged with crimes they are not even allowed to defend themselves against.
But the worldwide Jewish assault on freedom of speech reaches much, much farther than that. A kangaroo court packed with Israeli settlers as witnesses is now roasting Palestinian benefactor Sami Al-Arian in Tampa. Anyone who realizes Sami's innocence (prosecution of him would not have been possible before the passage of the Patriot Act) and supports him suddenly receives a home visit from the FBI and IRS aimed at intimidating them into silence. The tactic works. Sami's support has dwindled.
And at least two deposed leaders of nations - Slobodan Milosevic of Serbia and Saddam Hussein of Iraq - have through their words from unjust imprisonment risen to the status of heroes in the fight against the Jewish war machine that slaughters innocents in many countries around the world, and trumpets its right to pretend to an exalted, immune status that they insist non-Jews are simply not eligible for. Everything the Western press has said about both vilified characters has been deliberately twisted negatively. Media manipulation of the facts of history is the second-best weapon in the arsenal of the Jewish war machine. The first, of course, would be money.
Orwell's "newspeak" thus arrives in nonfiction history couched in the language of the Jewish spy agency named the Anti-Defamation League. Anyone who questions the unprovable story of gas chambers in World War Two immediately gets slammed into jail, especially if you live in Germany or Canada, two satellite toadies to the Jewish-controlled U.S./UK/Israeli axis of evil now plundering the planet for profit.
Jewish observers of these statements immediately lapse into their disingenuous fusillade of aspersions beneath the banner of their cynical credo - anti-semitism - most, without realizing that many millions of people now know of centuries-long plans by the world's elitist organizations - notably churches - to subvert and control the minds of the human citizens of this planet. The Jews are not without a very curious history of collapses of societies in which they have risen to prominence: Rome, Venice, Spain, Britain, Russia, Germany, and now, the United States.
Today, new laws in most Western nations (arbitrary geographic divisions of the monolithic social force known as the Corporate West) prohibit even discussing such matters. The macabre legal phraseology the thought-controllers use is "defaming the memory of the dead."
The great laugh in this, as one of my fellow alarmists once mentioned, is that the creators of this law may feign concern about the reputations of deceased martyrs, but they sure don't care much about the living, judging by other behavior by the same group.
But this is no laughing matter. Because the real issue is freedom of speech for every person, and even more than that, it's about freedom of thought.
Fact: In most countries of the Corporate West, you may not even consider that much-maligned assertion trumpeted with certainty by men with such intellectual integrity as Rudolf and Zundel, both of whom are dismissed as white supremacists and sequestered from the realm of human communication so the the rest of the world won't get the information Jews are so desperately trying to conceal - namely, about their perfidy during World War II and their control of the financial forces that allow them to unduly influence all of the major governments in the world.
The dean of the Holocaust Revisionist movement, Robert Faurisson of France, has been expressing it best for almost 30 years. "Show me or draw me a Nazi gas chamber!"
And in all that time, despite the ubiquitous and obscene hysteria of Jewish sewer tales, this evidence proving the existence of the Auschwitz gas chambers has yet to be brought forth for comprehensive public scrutiny. There can be only one answer to this mystery.
Yet with calculated choruses of ritualized mourning, the new Jewish Holocaust religion creeps around the world, spread by the efforts of a powerful yet clandestine network of Jewish supremacists, stifling thought and promoting Jewish profligacy and poverty and misery for everybody else wherever it spreads.
This is the result, despite the best efforts of the worldwide Jewish spin machine - which includes public schools and medical profession - of trying to convince us there was a deliberate policy of extermination of a certain ethnic group during World War II, and most importantly, that this is a tragedy that we should worship.
No one quibbles that Jews died, although the actual number ranges all the way down to 875,000, a number once reported by the Associated Press. But it is the argument about the gassings, and other side issues that put the Jews in a bad light, that sends all these people to jail.
To that end, hundreds if not thousands of Holocaust museums have sprung up across the United States, all funded by taxpayer dollars. Gee, imagine that? Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
As trenchant Jewish critic Norman Finkelstein has pointed out, the Jewish community has made a mockery of decency by shoving this Holocaust worship down the throats of everyone else. Lenni Brenner and other relatively objective Jewish observers have chronicled the sorry role of international Jewish organizations complicit with Hitler in the manipulation of Europe's Jewish population for purposes of finagling a Jewish state in Palestine.
Yet most Jewish critics of Jewish behavior continue to deny the basic fiction of the German gassings even as they bemoan the pathology of the Jewish proclivity to suggest that Jewish dead are somehow more valuable than non-Jewish dead.
And anyone who tries to stand up to this thought-control tyranny, if they are in the truculent satellite countries of the Corporate West axis of evil, is immediately silenced and thrown into jail for saying things that are simply not allowed by our Jewish keepers.
Perhaps an even worse effect is that hundreds of otherwise progressive news sources are effectively constrained from even reporting honestly on this very crucial issue to human development because of these insane hate speech laws regarding the Holocaust that are spreading around the world.
Ironically, the real hate speech comes from the very people who passed these laws.
The assertion that six million Jews were murdered in gas chambers by Germans does not stand in the light of critical and objective scrutiny, and never has. It is only the Zionist spin machine, which controls far more of your thought than you know, insisting on the fiction, repeating the propaganda, that has allowed this mistaken idea to take hold in the public mind. Call it the Lee Harvey Oswald principle.
It is merely a twisted legend of remembered misery fostered by a self-referential hysteria based upon an ancient edict that declares one random group of people in the desert are, in perpetuity, so vastly superior to every other group of humans on the planet that they may commit any crime against any non-Jew without penalty. And this is precisely the madness that today has our world in a death grip.
Humans are decent people, not robotoids who need to be molded by social forces into banal, braindead docility.
The infinite flower that is the human individual should be nurtured and cherished, not controlled, abused and murdered for reasons that are lies.
Ladies and gentlemen: Some few of you already know this, but most of you don't. Especially note the number of apparently progressive publications who will not run this story because it mentions Jews. Do you now realize you yourself are a prisoner in the Jewish war on freedom of speech?
As you sit there on your couch reading, in your comfortable home, watching a Hollywood movie, eating corporate food, believing in a groovy, synthetic god, sucking down an aspartame-laden Diet Coke, do you have any idea of what the poet William Blake once called "mind-forg'd manacles?"
Be careful what you think. You could be jailed for it at any time, especially if what you think is about Jews. This is the new American way. I wonder where it came from.
John Kaminski is a writer who lives on the Gulf Coast of Florida. For more information visit www.johnkaminski.com.
Posted by: Henry Barth at November 20, 2005 01:15 AM (Iiozc)
There are many who have no problem with Scooter Libby being indicted for lying about something he was never charged with. But let one guy get arrested for possible visa violations even though it was likely brought about because of dangerous speech and everyone's in an uproar. Does anyone see the hypocrisy here?
Henry Barth qouted: "The assertion that six million Jews were murdered in gas chambers by Germans..." (The rest of the article is really pathetic in defending Milosevic and Hussein among other things. I sincerely question whose mind is under control here.)
That one quote was crafted in such a way to ellicit a certain emotion or thought. Let's be clear about it. It's estimated that six million people of many nationalities and beliefs died under Nazi policies. Primarily Jews. They were worked and starved to death, they lived under inhumane conditions which promoted disease which killed them, they were gassed, they were experimented on by insane doctors led by Mengeles, they were shot - this is only a few causes of death for many millions.
And some are arguing about whether the logistics and technicalites allowed for what ever number may have died in any given gas chamber?
Disgusting.
Posted by: Oyster at November 20, 2005 05:55 AM (YudAC)
Note: start another thread, if it's off topic here.
"Holocaust denial" is a smear term trying to install some prejudices into a debate. Revisionists do not "deny", they question or dispute specific claims. This is by no means more a crime then questioning or disputing the alleged reality of fairies, ghosts or witches riding on broom sticks.
Posted by: Hendrik at November 20, 2005 07:47 AM (qRCLD)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at November 20, 2005 08:22 AM (0yYS2)
God, man, our own soldiers saw with there own eyes what was going on in these camps. Please quit trying to protect these Nazi scum. And millions of other people were killed, too, including gypsys, Poles, Russians, the handicapped, the mentally ill, etc. 20 million of them!
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 20, 2005 08:26 AM (rUyw4)
Precisely Joe,
Israel does not own the term, "Holocaust".
Joe:'God, man, our own soldiers saw with there own eyes"
Did our soldiers count to 6 million? How many fingers do they have?
Posted by: Menezes' ghost at November 20, 2005 08:39 AM (eYI8D)
My apologies - howie set up this thread comment and it was immediately hijacked.
If you got an issue post your own fuckin' thread!
Not only is this rude and disrepectful to howie - its the blog way to tell him to get out of the way and go fuck himself!
When I see this happening I will respond (if at all) with meaningless satire and jokes and ignore the idiots that started this.
I wish others would do the same.
Now its Sunday - who likes who in what game matchups.
Posted by: hondo at November 20, 2005 09:02 AM (Jvmry)
No historian would claim today that Dachau or Belsen were indeed "Extermination camps" (a postwar term). What "our soldiers" saw there was the result of an economically collapsing Germany. People were starving because there were no more supplies going to those camps. Not because there was any policy to get them killed. In Auschwitz btw the Red Army found many healthy and well fed prisoners. However exterminationists claim that Auschwitz was an "extermination camp". Guess someone needs to get his story straight.
Posted by: Hendrik at November 20, 2005 01:51 PM (qRCLD)
In the end, the mandated understanding of the Holocaust is a state-sanctioned political conspiracy that fits in perfectly with the machinations of the political world order- it is socially and politically desirable. The revisionist scholars are victims of opposition to the state ideology, not unlike the political prisoners that filled concentration camps in WWII or under Stalin. Freedom of speech has been lost and totalitarian control has once again taken root unnoticed within our modern "democratic" society.
Posted by: Twisted Straight at November 20, 2005 02:19 PM (1Op5p)
Posted by: Sijima at November 20, 2005 04:45 PM (yJBT/)
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 20, 2005 05:14 PM (rUyw4)
You are completely missing the point, you may agree or disagree with the 6,000,000 figure...
But should people be imprisoned for thought crime?
That's the question at issue.
Posted by: Menezes' ghost at November 20, 2005 05:47 PM (eYI8D)
Finally, if you come up with a definition and argue for imprisonment, are you willing to take it one step further and neuter the human spirit by utilizing surgery and other invasive means, as Sijima has argued for?
Posted by: Menezes' ghost at November 20, 2005 05:59 PM (eYI8D)
Revisionism as a disciplinary study was sparked by left-wing radicals in France. Rassinier, Faurisson, Thion etc. and is also evident in Germany (Fritjof Meyer) etc. There are others that don't fit the racist characterization. Yes, Faurisson is critical of political Jewry today, but that is because he too has suffered under the draconian laws that they have pushed through in France and he is identifying the political lobbyists that have instigated the totalitarian "history" of the present.
If ever there was a subject in the history of the humanities that is deserved of careful scrutiny it is the Holocaust. No tenured professor is likely to investigate the merits of the revisionist arguments because you know that he would also be persecuted ipso facto. Look at poor Joel Hayward. His life was ruined also- until he fully renounced his thesis. And he is part-Jewish, I believe.
The persecution of free-thinkers is a crime against humanity.
Posted by: Twisted Straight at November 20, 2005 06:21 PM (1Op5p)
Menuhin's son forced to resign over 'anti-Semitic' interviews
From Roger Boyes in Berlin
THE son of the violinist and humanist Yehudi Menuhin has been ousted as head of the German branch of his father’s foundation because of his extreme right-wing views.
Gerard Menuhin, 57, caused uproar by suggesting that Germany was being blackmailed by an international Jewish conspiracy preying on the country’s war guilt. He was forced to resign as chairman of the Yehudi Menuhin Foundation (YMF) in Germany, which was established to encourage the musical talent of young immigrants.
“It was a logical and comprehensible decision in this re-educated land,†Mr Menuhin, an Old Etonion who lives in Switzerland and Britain, said. “But I’m not going to change my opinions because of it.â€
Mr Menuhin is one of two sons of the violinist with his second wife, the British dancer Diana Rosamond Gould, and he has taken over a number of family responsibilities. Apart from his chairmanship of the YMF in Dusseldorf, he sits on the board of the Menuhin Festival in Gstaad.
Until now his political views have barely registered with the outside world even though he has a regular column in the Munich-based ultra-nationalist National Zeitung. One of his more vitriolic columns condemned Jewish “souvenir hunters†who gather evidence in Germany to help them to lodge financial claims for wartime persecution.
“Apart from a few curious comments about America, we weren’t really aware of his politics,†Winfried Kneip, YMF’s chief executive, said.
Mr Menuhin outed himself as a clear sympathiser with the neo-Nazi cause in two published interviews this month. In Deutsche Stimme, voice of the National Party of Germany, he used classical anti-Semitic language while still staying within the boundaries of German law.
“An international lobby of influential people and organisations is trying to keep the Germans under pressure,†he said. “Some nations — mainly America, but other Europeans, too — are profiting from an obedient Germany.â€
It was unfair, he said, that Germany should continue to be punished for its Nazi past. “The main tool of this endless blackmail was supplied by the Germans themselves, although the tainted period of 12 years really was only 12 years in over 2,000 years of immaculate development.â€
The Menuhin family is descended from Russian Jews, and Baron Menuhin of Stoke d’Abernon, who became a life peer in 1993, was regarded as a great humanist who worked to bring communities together. Hence the shock that his son should let himself be fêted by German parties that stir up sentiment against foreigners and often glorify the Nazis.
In an interview with the National Zeitung, organ of the German Peoples’ Union, Mr Menuhin called on Germans to stop paying taxes and thus protest at the outflow of German funds to the European Union.
“People cannot be eternally exploited in this way,†he said, “as long as there is a budget deficit, no German public money should flow abroad.â€
Mr Menuhin, who describes himself as a film producer and writer, is something of a maverick within the family. “He was the least musically gifted,†a family friend said, “and he suffered from that emotionally.â€
There has, in fact, been a history of family sympathy for German nationalists. Mr Menuhin’s grandfather, Moshe, was a determined anti-Zionist and expounded his views in the National Zeitung; he was arts editor from 1968 to 1970 although he was aware of its extreme German nationalism. He left the job only because the paper was not anti-Zionist enough.
Lord Menuhin earned applause from German Nationalists when he played with the conductor Wilhelm Furtwängler, who had been a Nazi supporter. But Lord Menuhin’s point was to demonstrate that music can heal wounds. German nationalists, however, regarded the gesture as being something more, a sign of understanding for those who believed in national socialism.
That, and the dedication of some concerts to the plight of German refugees from the East, gave the Menuhin family some standing among German rightwingers. Although Lord Menuhin had humanitarian motives, Gerard appears to have interpreted his father’s gestures as a family blessing for his nationalist opinions.
The Yehudi Menuhin Foundation in Germany was set up by the violinist shortly before his death in Berlin in 1999. Its brief is “to use art to teach peaceful coexistence to children in social crisis areas with high immigrant populationsâ€.
HOW DISCORD WAS SOWN
On a Jewish conspiracy:
“An international lobby of influential people and organisations is trying to keep the Germans under pressure . . .â€
“Some nations — mainly America, but Europeans too — are profiting from an obedient Germany . . . Those claiming to speak in the name of (Holocaust) victims have better networks than those representing other groups of survivors. Just think of the survivors of murdered Cambodians, American Indians or the Armenians. I am not the only Jew who thinks in this way . . .â€
On the need for a greater role for the far Right:
“The radical parties have to speak a clear language, offer alternatives, especially now that the parties of the centre are virtually indistinguishable and lack courage or solutions . . .â€
On the EU:
“The European Union has swollen to gigantic proportions — a monster that is swallowing vast sums, most of which are paid for by Germanyâ€
Posted by: Endicott at November 20, 2005 06:43 PM (IrJGI)
I dont know or care to know anything about AIPAC, if someone commited a crime, he wll be sent to jail. I suspect the Begin quote is fake, give me a CREDIBLE source to prove it otherwize (preferably in the original language). Also I dont see how either one is related to our discussion, stay on topic.
You ask if its humane to use counseling / drugs / EST / surgery/institutionalization to cure racism, I think it is. Racism is a mental illness like any other and should be treated likewize. Shizophrenics that are deemed dangerous to themselves or others are put into mental homes. They are given counseling to work out their problems, if they are violent they may be given drugs but 99% volunteer to take the medication. Thousands of Americans every year volunteer for electric shock therapy, it looks gruesome but it helps with depression and other severe illnesses, many people chose EST when the alternative is chronic depression or suicide. In extreme cases people ask for surgery to the frontal cortex which helps remove some kinds of depression, contrary to popular rumors these surgeries do not produce big behavioral changes, though some small problems may appear, again its better than suicide.
Racism, antisemitism, Holocaust denial is not anyhow related to free speech. Its mental illness, take a paranoid shizophrenic's rant about the mutated squirles that can read his thoughts, and replace the squirles with Jews, and you get a David Duke speech. If I run around Time Square screaming about super intelligent potatoes that are controling the media, I will be locked up in the loony bin. Insane ramblings are not free speech and locking luntatics up is not censorship.
Now answer my question, why is it that the trahs of humanity has no problem believing revisionists, while intellectual people that think critically of authority and government dont? And why is it that NOT ONE SINGLE HISTORIAN supports revisionism?
Posted by: Sijima at November 20, 2005 07:37 PM (yJBT/)
I am an American of Norweigan/Swede heritage and proud of it. I am a racist for damn good reason. What the fuck are you. Bet you are so ashamed of what you are that you will not truthfully say it. You low life. Who do you think you are? Racists rule. Racists are the only truthful people left on this planet. Asshole.
Posted by: greyrooster at November 20, 2005 07:43 PM (ZaAd/)
But Sijima, not even Rooster deserves a FORCED lobotomy, which is what you advocated in your original rant. Even Klansmen deserve a voice.
Posted by: menezes' ghost at November 20, 2005 09:09 PM (eYI8D)
The credible source is none other than the 39th President of The United States, Jpmmy Carter. I choose to believe President Carter over your revisionist friends. The original language was a heavily accented English.
Posted by: Menezes' ghost at November 20, 2005 09:35 PM (eYI8D)
Posted by: Menenzes' ghost at November 20, 2005 09:36 PM (eYI8D)
Posted by: Sijima at November 20, 2005 09:41 PM (yJBT/)
Posted by: Jester at November 20, 2005 09:49 PM (BypR5)
Posted by: Menezes' ghost at November 20, 2005 10:11 PM (eYI8D)
Posted by: Sijima at November 20, 2005 11:14 PM (yJBT/)
I commend your calm approach. I would have pulled the plug on this thread long ago and sent them all to the History Channel board (All Hitler, All the Time).
Posted by: hondo at November 20, 2005 11:34 PM (Jvmry)
Posted by: greyrooster at November 21, 2005 07:28 AM (ZaAd/)
Posted by: Menezes' ghost at November 21, 2005 07:52 AM (eYI8D)
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 21, 2005 09:04 AM (rUyw4)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at November 21, 2005 03:21 PM (0yYS2)
Attorney at Law
P. O. Box 3905
Montgomery, AL 36109
Tel. 334-270-8223
November 21, 2005
Her Excellency Eva Nowotny
Republic of Austria
3524 International Court N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20008
Your Excellency:
It is disturbing that British historian David Irving, an erudite scholar on matters pertaining to World War Two, has been imprisoned by the Republic of Austria. What is his crime? His honest pursuit of truth?
What is wrong with that picture? Has anyone been harmed by Mr. Irving’s endeavors to honestly report events occurring some 6 or 7 decades ago? The real harm by your country’s actions is denial of an inalienable right of humans - that of liberty of speech, which covers the concepts of free inquiry, free expression and free thought.
Jewish Supremacists and other enemies of liberty of speech around the globe are gloating over your country’s action but advocates for genuine liberties for individuals are shocked, once again, that a man can go to jail for his opinions.
I know Mr. Irving personally, having hosted him at a presentation in Prattville, Alabama on July 6. He is not the monster that one might be led to believe if one relies on mass media reporting or propaganda from persons who profit from popular notions about mass deaths of innocents in Europe.
I urge you to deliver the message to your government that Mr. Irving has a lot of support in the United States and that in the name of liberty and justice for all, including people who offend powerful and wealthy interests, Mr. Irving should be released immediately.
Further, is it not time to repeal all such laws that suppress liberty of speech, often called hate crime laws? Perhaps the Republic of Austria will use this unfortunate event as a catalyst to lead Europe out of decades of such intellectual darkness. A new age of enlightenment is desperately needed and your nation might lead the way.
In the United States we face a similar situation with enemies to liberty promoting more hate laws. I am seeking the Democratic nomination for Alabama Attorney General. See the attached press release, my first, in which I speak of the plight of Mr. Irving and other victims of oppressive governments that will not trust their citizens to hear dissent and decide matters for themselves.
I look forward to your reply and a favorable action by the Republic of Austria.
For Light and Liberty,
Larry Darby
+++
LARRY DARBY FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL
P. O. BOX 3722 MONTGOMERY AL 36109 TEL. 334-324-7545
Response to Calls for More “Hate Crime†Legislation – 18 November 2005
Montgomery attorney and candidate for the Democratic nomination for Alabama Attorney General, Larry Darby opposes recent calls by Rep. Alvin Holmes and others to amend the state’s “hate crime†laws to include anti-gay attacks; instead, Darby urges more reasonable leaders to act to repeal all such existing laws. Hate crime laws are contrary to Sections 1 (Equality and rights of men), 3 (Religious freedom) and 4 (Freedom of speech) of the Alabama Constitution, inter alia, as well as the US Constitution.
Calls for expanded hate crime laws followed reports of Billy Sanford being attacked allegedly for homosexual aggression by Sanford against Marcus Kelley.
While unjustifiable acts of violence are wrong and adequately punishable under existing law, hate crime laws are not necessary and in fact violate fundamental individual freedoms, particularly free speech, which includes the rights to free inquiry and freedom of opinion. Hate crime laws subtly allow for and will eventually lead to punishment for holding unpopular opinions, effectively establishing an Orwellian Ministry of Truth. The Legislature should not enact laws that can be used to prosecute citizens who challenge popular political notions or otherwise engage in free expression of ideas that others find offensive, including faith-based views against homosexuality.
By repealing all hate crime laws the Legislature will demonstrate a commitment to protection of fundamental liberties for individuals, possibly leading other states to reject similar laws, preventing the loss of liberty of speech citizens in Europe and Canada have lost. Another way of looking at this is that hate crime laws are a revival of blasphemy laws, where you can be punished solely for your opinions. If you subscribe to the wrong religion or no religion at all, hate crime laws put you at risk.
Ake Green, a Pentecostal pastor, was prosecuted under Sweden’s hate laws for preaching that homosexuality is a violation of the Jewish commandments (157-159) of the Old Testament. Dieudonne M’Bala M’Bala, a French comedian and atheist was prosecuted in France for pointing out that Judaism is the source of racism (chosen people of God). British historian David Irving has been detained in Austria for allegedly denying “the holocaust.†Former Tennessee resident Ernst Zundel is in a jail in Germany today because his speech offended people who had the power to enforce hate laws. Whether or not an opinion is offensive must be irrelevant to the law.
As Alabama’s Attorney General, Larry Darby will work with the Legislature to insure that existing or proposed laws are constitutional and just. The Alabama Legislature must act to guard against the insidious nature of hate laws or legislation.
Posted by: Larry Darby at November 22, 2005 03:29 AM (9ckmS)
PS: I am not a Zionist sweetheart, looks like you are making up information again (where is that Begin quote again?)
Posted by: Sijima at November 22, 2005 07:42 PM (yJBT/)
Those were the methods used at the so-called psychiatric hospitals in the old Soviet Union. If someone wants to deny the holocaust, then that is their business. Frankly, I doubt the success of the methods you suggest, and am convinced using them would cause way more harm than a few people denying the holocaust ever could.
The methods would cause resentment, anger, agitation, and would lead to the worst kind of hate based on the idea of persecution and martyrdom. We all know where that has led.
Posted by: jesusland joe at November 22, 2005 09:13 PM (rUyw4)
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/
Another excellent source is the American Council for Judaism: http://www.acjna.org/
Neither site could possible be called anti-Semitic –
Posted by: Henry Barth at November 24, 2005 12:58 AM (avFY6)
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/051124/w112444.html
He now believes that the key revisionist lie that there were no gas chambers in nazi concentration camps is false. Very enlightened of him, this shows that anti-Holocaust denial laws work. He would never repent if he wasnt forced to defend his lie. This is another death blow to an already dead ideology. Holocaust deniers are scrambling to retreat to a more plausible position: Gas chambers existed, but were not used to kill Jews, this lie will be discredited in due time. For now it is nice to see that holding hatemongers accountable for their actions will yield results. Irving must now pay for his crimes by spending some time behind bars, an exellent opportunity to write that anti-revisionist book he has been planning :~)
Posted by: Sijima at November 25, 2005 05:59 AM (yJBT/)
Posted by: test at November 28, 2005 01:53 PM (ZGmcv)
September 12, 2005
Some Arab and hardcore Leftist presses have often repeated the claim that the U.S. is using chemical, biological, and even nuclear weapons in Iraq. [related story here]
Zaraqawi's audio speeches have often come at times when it appeared that al Qaeda was on the run. This tape comes as US forces have launched an all out offensive against al Qaeda in Iraq, with a large measure of success. A similar audio tape emerged after reports that Zarqawi had been shot and after the fall of Fallujah to U.S. forces. Both tapes promised the immenent defeat of the U.S. at a time when al Qaeda was on the run.
On the audiotape, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is heard to say:
The Crusaders mobilised their big armies and used the most destructive and lethal weapons and the most deadly and hurtful poison gas together with their stooges. But God made them drink at the hands of the mujahedeen the different kinds of death and made them face horrible things that they will never forget. [source]Zarqawi is also heard urging his fighters to be prepared for 'a final battle' with the Americans who he calls 'cowards'. Even though it is al Qaeda that uses the tactics of hit and run attacks, IEDs, murdering hostages, beheading, and hiding among the civilian population, Zarqawi is heard calling US forces 'cowards who always seek to run away."
Tel Afar is now controlled by the Coalition troops and al Qaeda forces are reported to have fled the city. Who was it that ran away Zarqawi?
SITE has a partial translation here, in which Zarqawi claims that hurricane Katrina was an act of Allah brought about by the prayers of the faithful:
I believe that the destructive hurricane which hit America, within its own house, was nothing but the result of a prayer of a father or a mother whose son was killed, or of boy who became an orphan, or of a woman whose honor was violated on the lands of Afghanistan, Iraq or othersâ€.According to Centcom, the Tel Afar offensive continues. 41 suspected terrorists were captured in that city on Sep. 10th as a result of 'Operation Restoring Rights'. Other media reports indicate that as many as 157 al Qaeda linked insurgents were killed in the Tel Afar offensive.
This morning, another operation was launched to root out al Qaeda linked terrorists in Iraq's al Anbar province. The new offensive, Operation 'Cyclone', targetted the terrorist safe haven of Rutbah.
For the past several months, terrorists within Rutbah have escalated their intimidation and murder campaign against the local populace and city government officials. The resulting effect was an increased ability to move freely within the area and a base for them to launch attacks against innocent civilians, Iraqi Security Forces and Coalition Forces.
In recent days, Coalition Forces have also captured Ammar ‘Abd-Al-Hafiz ‘Abd Muhummad (aka Ammar Amam Wakhtif or Sheik Ammar), an admitted terrorist and leader of the lnu’man Brigade, in a raid earlier in September in the Ramadi area. Sayf-al-Din Yahya 'Anad (aka Sheik Sayf or Abu Hamza), a Nu’man Brigade cell leader, was also captured during the raid. He was responsible for organizing and directing attacks against Iraqi Security and Coalition Forces.
Abu Zayd, (above right) identified as the current Al Qaeda in Iraq military emir of Mosul, was also killed in a raid.
Others: In the Bullpen
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Posted by: sandpiper at September 12, 2005 08:57 AM (7/75z)
Posted by: Howie at September 12, 2005 09:08 AM (D3+20)
Posted by: FIlthy Allah at September 12, 2005 09:15 AM (5ceWd)
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 12, 2005 09:39 AM (q9AWQ)
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 12, 2005 10:04 AM (JQjhA)
Many insurgents escape US-Iraqi sweep
Check that a moment. Google News used those headlines, but the underlying stories did not - San Jose Mercury news. The San Jose Mercury News reported: Militant positions were found mainly deserted Sunday, and the invading force discovered a network of tunnels below the city through which the insurgents were believed to have fled to the surrounding countryside.
Brig. Gen. Abdul Aziz Mohammed-Jassim, spokesman for the Iraqi army in Tal Afar, said the final insurgent death toll was 157, with 291 suspected militants captured. He said one Iraqi soldier was killed Monday, bringing the army death toll to at least six for the entire operation. Six civilians died, he said.
The U.S. military reported a similar number of insurgent deaths, 141, a day earlier. No U.S. soldiers were killed, it said. Sounds to me like they got a bunch of terrorists to me. No way to know why or how Google News put together that headline except out of wishful thinking?!
Posted by: lawhawk at September 12, 2005 10:22 AM (AcoYr)
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 12, 2005 11:40 AM (5ceWd)
Posted by: dave at September 12, 2005 01:08 PM (CcXvt)
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 12, 2005 01:39 PM (q9AWQ)
Posted by: sandpiper at September 12, 2005 01:40 PM (U+eLg)
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 12, 2005 01:55 PM (q9AWQ)
Posted by: Oyster at September 12, 2005 02:19 PM (fl6E1)
"What de faaaack! Day keep on comming! Don't dez Freakin Infidels stop shooting at us for 5 fuking minutes? Mahmoood! Stop bleeding on my carpet...you are leaking like a sieve you ass! I just bought that. Dammit!"
Posted by: Filthy Allah at September 12, 2005 03:24 PM (5ceWd)
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 12, 2005 04:42 PM (q9AWQ)
Posted by: sandpiper at September 13, 2005 09:46 AM (ILvmZ)
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