1 One of the greatest guitarists ever, that's who.

2 hahah... yeah you know you're old when...

3 "One of the greatest guitarists ever, that's who."

Ok, he was a decent guitarist, but let's not get delusional (unless you were being sarcastic). And he and Pantera actually did more harm for the heavy metal genre than good.

4 There are no Headbanger "Great Guitarists" . . . Volume, not talent rules contemporary music.

Coming from an old Rock n' Roll musician who will still put Hank Ballard up against most any post-80's musician (Yeah, well, OK, Clapton, Stevie Ray, couple of others ain't bad) and they still won't come across with the riffs that man alone could make . .

But, damn, the Music Critics are getting tough!

5 Dime bag "Was" one hell of a guitarist (one of the best of his kind) Who made a huge Contribution to REAL heavy metal

6 dimebag was one of the best and even though pantera wasnt still together they are still "the shit" so fuck all of you shit talkin mother fuckers who don't even listen to their music.

7 I saw him at wall-mart last night...
The psyco anyway... u know... porn...

8 Any true metalhead will know that Pantera spawned the whole nu-metal shit that tries to pass itself off as real metal. Pantera was never "real" heavy metal. I know this is a bitter pill to swallow for people who think they're metalheads, but I'm afraid that's just how it is.

9 I listen to rap, dont do much metal (Some) But i gotta feel bad for the guy. its fucked up somebody would do that shit at a show.

10 Dimebag was by far one of the most inventive guitar players of all time. Everyone has their own style, albeit rock, metal, pop, death metal, industrial, whatever. Dime was by far the most innovative metal guitar player of our time. He will be missed, remembered, and loved by all who have heard him play.

11 Venom - Rap is a piece of shit eminem can lick D12s nuts, people need to appreciate a good guitarist. Fuck the people who wanna be smart about it - they simply havent taken notice of Pantera's hard work and what Dime had made the band.

12 Hey, I said from the beginning that he was a decent guitarist. And is was. Let's just not get delusional and assume metal benefited from Pantera. Because in reality it pretty much poisoned the genre in that ignorant children started thinking it was metal, when it fact it was mallcore crap.

13 Sorry, that should read: "And he was."

14 The only thing I know about Heavy Metal music is that it's not music at all; IT'S NOISE!!! Plain and simple noise. What happened at that nightclub is tragic with this idiot killing 4 people, injuring 2, having the brother of dimebag in a chokehold while a cop sneaked in and shot the guy to death - good for him. BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO COVER IT ALL DAY LONG!! Every minute all day long as if there was no other news to cover - sort of like waiting for the Peterson outcome but worse.

And another thing, when our troops in Iraq see the news, they wonder why there is no news about them when the most important things they see on tv and radio is the Peterson case or this nightclub scene? They ask why is that more important than them?

What happened was bad but it didn't have to take up every channel all day long. Sure, I never heard of these groups or these people and if I want to keep my sanity, I'm sure not going to listen to it, either, but a few times a day is enough coverage, thank you.

Cindy

15 I agree, his music wasn't worth any news coverage more than a few minutes. I mean, it's not like Jimmy Page got shot or anything.

By the way, there are other things happening in the world besides Iraq.

Just thought I'd point that out.

16 Dimebag was good. but he wasnt the best(Kirk Hammet is). yeah what happened was fucked up but...for christ sakes get over it.

17 Pantera is fucking awesome!!!that shits messed....and Whacky...fuck u.

18 Dead. Think on it for a minute. The Clash sang "Someone got murdered, someone is dead forever." Do you deserve to be dead? A guy plays a guitar. So do I. And he is dead. Fuck you you insnsitive pricks.

19 Meh, Kirk Hammet was decent 15 years ago, but he hasn't done anything worthwhile since. But yeah, he's definitely better than Dimebag ever was. I'd also rank Gary Holt and Rick Hunolt (Exodus), Hank Shermann (Mercyful Fate), Mantas (Venom), Marty Friedman (Megadeth), Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman (Slayer), Tom Warrior (Celtic Frost), Adrian Smith (Iron Maiden), Samoth (Emperor) and Tony Iommi (Black Sabbath) as being heads and shoulders better metal guitarists than Dimebag (Jimmy Page, btw, is in the elite status of guitarits that no one will likely ever match - Zeppelin weren't metal, but they influenced a fair bit of metal bands that existed in the 80s). And all of them were more influential to metal than Pantera ever was or will be.

20 Did they ever say WHY the guy shot them in the first place?

21 Dunno, but what a memorial here in Arlington, TX! Over 5,000 peeps showed up at the Convention Center. Eddy Van Halen gave a eulogy, along with a former Ozzy Osbourne guitarist.

I know Pantera, but didn't know Dime Bag by name. Also didn't know he had such a big following.

RIP.

22 dime was a great direction to follow.

23 The guy who shot Dimebag basically believed that it was Dimebag's fault for the break-up of Pantera (again, no big loss). He also accused Pantera of stealing his songs and his identity.

So yeah, he was a complete nutjob.

24 ALL YOU PEOPLE ARE A BUNCH OF LOSER FREAKS GET A DAMN LIFE OUTSIDE A POST BOARD

25 dimebag darrel was a great guitarist, no matter what music you listen to and how much you liked or didnt like him or pantera. you cannot deny his skills. what happened is fucked up to say the least. smoke a blunt for him.

26 this venem mother fucker needs his ass kicked or worse and i know if you read his comments you would see my point

27
"Dimebag was a dear friend of mine," Ozzy Osbourne said. "I'm absolutely beside myself with grief... Pantera toured with me many, many times. I'll always remember the signed guitar that he gave me at my 50th birthday party. My heart goes out to Dime's family, his fans and the other innocent victims who were killed in this senseless tragedy. It's just terribly, terribly sad."
OZZY OSBOURNE

This is unbelievable. To sit here and talk about Darrell in the past tense seems so wrong, so unfair, so unjust, I don't even know what to say. My heart goes out to Vinnie, to their families, to the other band members, and to the families and friends of the other people that were killed or injured, in this fucking senseless act of selfishness and stupidity.
In 1985 I was fortunate enough to meet both Darrell and his brother in Dallas on tour. The first thing me and my friend did as soon as that tour was over, was to head straight back to Dallas and hang out with Darrell and Vinnie for a long time, cuz they were the coolest muther fuckers that we had met after criss-crossing the states for three months. That was the beginning of a friendship that was anchored in love, respect, fun, outrageousness, music, booze, sweat, late nights, early mornings, hangovers, headaches, pounding eardrums, sore bodies... the list goes on.

There's a tendency in these fucked up moments to use the word "I" a lot and focus on one's own feelings of pity and shock... so instead let it just be known that thru these eyes Darrell was incredibly warm, open, fun, nutty, forthcoming, talented, embracing, unpretentious, accommodating and he always had a very attractive innocence about him that obviously made him never threatening and always welcoming.

Darrell and his brother were the cornerstone of musical adventures that were always groundbreaking, pushing boundaries, challenging to themselves and to their fans, respected by their peers and always true musicians' musicians, and today the rock world is worse off because of this untimely and senseless waste.

Much love and respect and thanks for letting me be a small part of your life and I know you are already having fun and throwing it down with Bon Scott, Keith Moon, John Bonham, Jimi, Cliff B., and the rest of the musicians and troublemakers that you are hanging with so prematurely.
Lars

I was absolutely shocked by the news. Dimebag was such a really nice genuine bloke and a great player. He was always very respectful towards me and it was lovely to have him on tour with us. He will be sadly missed.
Tony Iommi

Dime, I will never forget all the times you made us laugh. I'm so happy we got to spend the day together in London recently… We should all live our lives as full as you have. I will miss you, as will all of us... This is a sad day."
Nikki Sixx (MÖTLEY CRÜE)

I'm stunned. The taking of Dimebag Darrell's life in this horrific murder is a senseless tragedy for his fans and unfathomable loss for his family. I send my deepest condolences to Vinnie and the rest of his family. My thoughts are also with the families of all the other victims of this heinous act."
Paul Stanley

Sad to report 'Dimebag' Darrell Abbott, formerly of PANTERA, has been killed in a club incident. Our best wishes to his family and friends."
Gene Simmons

Hello everyone. My deepest condolences go out to everyone affected regarding the passing of dimebag. His mucianship was superb and his original style was and will remain an inspiration to players worldwide. His friendship can never be replaced.

I first met Dime in 1991. I was in Toronto preparing for the 'Painkiller' tour. I had MuchMusic TV on and saw this guy talking about metal and wearing a 'British Steel' shirt. From what he was saying and the PANTERA video that aired I knew right away that this man was a guitar god!

" called MuchMusic and spoke to Dime and that night went to a club and hung with the band. We jammed 'Metal Gods'. From that point on, he and the rest of the band became solid friends. My gut feeling was that this band would be huge.

So PANTERA toured with PRIEST all over Europe. Many a night I would stand off stage and watch them tear up city after city leaving everyone stunned by their intense performances. It was a thrill to watch and hear Dime invent and advance with his playing. Soon the world became Panterarised!

He was beyond beautiful. When he'd walk in the room, he'd light it up. Fuck the guitar playing -- he's right up there with Eddie and Randy and Hendrix. All he wanted to do was make everyone happy. He was the ray of sunshine. Dime will never die ever -- he's in my veins. He's sitting at God's tavern, having a cold one with Randy Rhoads and Hendrix. Dime was an original.
Zakk Wylde of Ozzy Osbourne

Of course, so much has happened since those early times and I feel that it's important now that however we take the turn of events in recent years we all stay true to the same belief that Dimebag had about his love of metal, which was to play your heart out and be real wherever you are! Some things that happen in life make no sense at all, but out of pain comes strength, and I know the metal community will take that strength and use it as an enduring memory for Dimebag.

"Love never dies."
Rob Halford

We are all gutted to hear of the senseless and tragic death of Dimebag Darrell, who was shot by a 'fan' who climbed on the stage at a show of his new band, DAMAGEPLAN. He was, of course, better known for his great playing in PANTERA.

"PANTERA were, I think, the first band that I and my son Jimmy both got equally excited about. It was Jimmy who first got me to see them. They were a great band, and Dimebag was an innovative and passionate player.

"Great musician. Terrible loss. My respects to him, to his family and friends. Also to those who were killed trying to save him and apprehend the gunman.

"RIP."
Brian May (QUEEN)

It was horrible. Darrell was a big fan of mine. He expressed that every time we ever saw each other," said the Nuge, who fondly recalled that PANTERA performed his "Journey to the Center of the Mind" and "Cat Scratch Fever" the last time they played Detroit.

"It's tragic on two dynamic levels," Nugent, an outspoken advocate of sensible gun ownership, added. "Once again, innocence is destroyed, and it's Americans destroying other Americans. This conduct runs wild in this country ... It's not the Taliban doing it. It's Americans."
Ted Nugent

28 dude i love tallica hammet does kick ass but im not gonna say hes batter than dime (though it would've been great to seem them go head to head in a "guitar battle") pantera did alot for metal listen to drowning pool, disturbed, godsmack, slipknot, the pantera influence is undeniable. dime was also one hell of a performer who played his heart out he had something that sadly very few musicians today seem to have..... a passion for playing. this trajedy is a goddamn shame and the metal world has lost a hell of a lot

29 Brad,

I understand your appreciation for Pantera, but the simple fact is that not one of those bands you listed is a metal band. They're nu-metal or mallcore, neither of which are considered metal by people who know and understand the genre.

Jay,

Fuck you. If you knew metal, then you'd understand.

30 You people are kidding. Cause it's doesn't sound like metallica or the norm it ain't metal - Grow up. They were the bench mark. If you took time to listen to how they form they,re music, They aren't hacks. Give them a pice of music and they'll play the shit, with all the stall's low's and all the other little things that makes music classical. Just because they grew up in a place without values or trust except from those close to them and learnt the lesson 'You can't be something your not. BE YOURSELF, by YOURSELF, STAY AWAY FROM Me." This is what Dimebag, Bless that man, and Pantera is all about. Respect to those who deserve it and to hell with the rest. The world is an EXTREMLY fake place. Pantera saw it and if it wasn,t for them telling it how it is i would still be caught up in that fake, FRIENDLESS world. But just because the sped up the tempo a hundred times and put ten times the effort and more heart than any into their music than you idiots could ever imagine that makes them not metal. All i can say is that was the best 17 year ride boys, thanks for changing my life for the better so fuck the rest. Pantera will never die - STRONGER THAN ALL!Cause we don't change our music like our undies.

31 James,

Pantera weren't really metal because the majority of their music didn't have metal riffs in it. While you may think this FACT is debatable, it is not. Pantera were a glam rock band that decided it was in their best interest to make their music "heavy." Making music heavy doesn't make it metal. Tool is heavy, but no one calls it metal. Ministry is heavy, but it's not metal either. Pantera may have been "heavy" to a bunch of ill-informed youth who only started listening to "heavy" music a few years ago, but that doesn't make them metal. And they aren't. Mainstream or not isn't the issue. You either have metal riffs, or you don't. Pantera doesn't, so they're not metal. Calling Pantera metal is the same as calling Vangelis a classical composer. Or calling Puff Daddy an R&B artist. It's stupid because neither of their music carries accepted traits that define their music as such. Pantera is no different.

32 What is wrong with some of you people. The guy is dead and all you seem to want to do is classify the band into some category of music and worse ...argue about it amongst yourselves. Does this make you feel better? Who gives a shit what you want to call his music style? I am a little dated as far as what is current and all the stupid titles you seem to have to classify every type of music into a tidy little box. Pantera kicks ass and always will in my mind and in the hearts of many. Pantera was not my favorite band as I don't feel the need to have a favorite. I choose to appreciate the works of many and not to argue about who is the best. You cannot deny that it was one of the most original bands in this era of music where so many bands cannot be recognized from each other. Let's face it...there are 100 bands that sound the same. When I hear Pantera, I know it's Pantera. No maybe about it. That is originality.It heavily influenced a lot of people that play music and many that only listened. It is an attitude. Did this ridiculous conversation exist when Randy Rhoads died or when Stevie Ray passed on? This senseless waste of time changes nothing. It only reinforces the fact that some people have nothing better to do and very little respect for the dead. Rest in Peace Darrell.

33 ok that guy up there that said pantera created 'nu metal' that is probably the stupidest thing i have ever heard. Let's see, what makes nu metal: 1. Riffs that are all the same just downtuned very very low. Listen to any of dimebag's riffs, all of them are very difficult fast and awesome and if they aren't that awesome than they have awesome solos. 2. Nu metal never solos. I have heard maybe one song that dimebag didn't solo in and i think that was suicide note part 1. That's 20 years of music and only one song without a solo. You obviously have a lot to know about 'real' metal and just because pantera became popular doesn't mean they weren't real metal because they were the first damn real metal band since black fuckin sabbath, and some of the good underground bands.

34 brad, i totally agree with you but i think that half the people are trying to get their point across do these dumbasses that are trying to act like pantera weren't metal. Venom, I don't know if you've ever heard of a band called black sabbath, but they created metal, or helped. Go back and listen to sabotage, volume 4, master of reality, any of it. I don't know in your opinion what makes a metal riff, but those riffs are blues riffs with distorted guitars, and they made it metal. That's what good bands do, they take stuff that isn't straight out metal, blend it with metal, and end up with real heavy metal. That's what pantera did, and i have no idea how you can say that pantera's riffs weren't metal because they were, listen to 'use my third arm' from far beyond driven, that's one of the heaviest damn songs. And also the only reason these fuckin sucky nu metal bands are influenced by pantera is they were among the few metal bands in the '90s to be influenced by, and they're a damn good one to be influenced by, which those bands obviously aren't because they don't have badass riffs and off the wall solos. But anyways dimebag was in the top 3 (yes three) guitarists behind maybe randy rhoads, and probably ahead of hendrix. He was great, and a great person. We're gonna miss you brother, R.I.P.

35 Thank you shad!

After reading all of that shit, someone finally said it. As I see it, all the great guitar players of all time are "GREAT"! You cant compare one to the other coz they came from diff genre's. Each guitar player has his own style. It's like saying that a classical guitar player is nothing compaired to a hair metal guitarist just coz the dude cant do "heavy" riffs on an accustic guitar. I love Metal, plain and simple. But I would like to point out something to venom though...

FUCK YOU FOR SAYING IT WAS NO BIG LOSS WHEN DIME DIED! Dime is pantera!

36 he was and still is one of the greatest guitarist of this or anyother generation you fuck. how can u not know Dimebag???? u suck fuckin' cock! FUCK YOU MOTHERFUCKERS WHO SAY PANTERA BREAKING UP WAS NO LOSS!!!! besides Zeppelin, they are the most influentualy group in metal. not very many metal bands can say that Dime and PANTERA didnt influence them! most of you on here are a bunch of fuckin' pricks! if Zakk Wylde saw what you were saying about Dime, he would punch your fuckin' faces in! Dime fuckin' rules, no doubt about that! fuck rap and all the wigger-ass shit we have now including Limp Bizkit! FUCK IT ALL!

DIMEBAG DARRELL ABBOTT
RIFF IN PEACE BORHTER
8/20/66-12/8/04

anyone who still misses Dime, email me

37 Anybody that does't think Darrell Abbott was a great Guitarist don't know much. I Hung out With Phil Back in the 80s when he was with "Razor White". When he joined Pantera in 1987 , I hung out with Pantera for the First time at the old Circle In The Square, in Shreveport La. that was before they made it big , The Spandex Days. I still have the Cassette of "Power Metal " that Darrell Gave me. He was Known as Diamond Darrell then. He with Ex singer Terry ,Rex Rocker and Vinnie Rocked . But when Phillip just Barely 18 joined the Band He and Darrell clicked and the result was Cowboys From Hell , A Classic Masterpiece. I went and Hung out with then In Houston At Cardi'S several Times Too . Great guys and great Artists. I last Saw Darrell At the 1999 Sabbath reunion Tour in Dallas . I had not seen him in 10 years but he knew me by name chatted a few It was A great great show . He Was a Super Guy And Artist. Long live his music!

38 I never listened to Pantera when Dimebag Darrell was alive. In fact, I was delivering pizza to somewhere in Albany NY when some black guy came up to my car and gave me (Vulgar Display of Power), roughly a month after Dimebag had died. I threw the CD into my CD player and loved the music, IMMEDIATELY. I don't really care what most other people say, I don't ask of their opinions. What I do know is that this man (DD) who is dead, was most definitely a great artist and as far as my preference goes, he is alot better than KIRK HAMMETT who loves to STEAL other people's style and can't come up with one of his own... Sorry to whoever said that up above, but you are simply a (excuse this) FUCKING IDIOT. I have been playing music since I've been in 4th grade (1994) and I can say, that even though there's alot of guys out there who can hack it on their own and make some cool noise, this guy Dimebag, if you listen to his solos and rythym over and over, it makes more and more sense. Then you realize, this guy was just ahead of everybody. People who can't find something useful about a band that IS respected by many people, just do not find what it is that gives them their status of having talent. There's alot of people out there who are getting credit for making songs that are simple, easy, catchy, and plain downright boring when repeated as many times as they are on the radio, when people like Dimebag Darrell should have been getting grammy nominations. The same goes for Randy Rhoads, and Allan Holdsworth, both artists have their own grove and made music worthwhile to listen to - but that's another story altogether. All I know is that with the technology that is coming out nowadays that makes a guitar sound like a friggen airplane engine and what have you - there's new styles to approaching that SOUND that you want to come out of that fuckin amp, and Darrell was definitely pioneering something incredible and not getting credit he deserved. I don't give a fuck if I change anyone's opinion, but I will sit there and tell you that you are a fucking idiot if you can really honestly believe that a sold out, style stealing, out-of-his-groove guitar player like Kirk Hammet has more style than Diamond Darrell. You gotta be one deeply rooted Metallica fan with a chip on your shoulder and an IQ 50 points lower than everyone else to say something SO DUMB. Kirk Hammet could never play 'New Level' or 'This Love', because he's a pentatonic tapping lord of copiness and I know that Dave Mustaine has been trying to tell people this for years. Listen, that comment actually offended me - "Dimebag was good. but he wasnt the best(Kirk Hammet is). yeah what happened was fucked up but...for christ sakes get over it."

This asshole needs to learn how to get over such a washed out little pecker faced tune stealer. He CANNOT WRITE GOOD MUSIC. He can play, ok. Great. But you're a fucking idiot to think he's ANY better than someone who actually wrote his own shit, and not only wrote his own shit, but made it sound better than anything Kirk could ever copy.

Listen to "Metallica - Kill Em All - The Four Horsemen", then listen to "Megadeth - Rude Awakening - Mechanix" and you can LISTEN to how much Kirk Hammett really sucks. Not that this is in anyway Dimebag related but cmon, you said something STUPID.

39 Yeah, nice job venom, the guitarist of emperor is better....it seems u know shit about guitars and what it takes to actually play one and not sound like a complete retard like emperor. emperor shit is so so so so so easy to play. And by the way, pantera is not nu-metal, you cant say its nu-metal asshole, pantera had been playing for years. You say dime was a decent guitarist, well i guess ozzy and others disagree, lets see when your "mighty" emperor guitarist dies if anyone will even notice it. I mean, if most of the rock bands consider him to be one of the greatest, i think your opionion means dick. I think you are in no position to say he a fair guitarist when the experts disagree, are you an expert? no, shut the fuck up.

40 Holy fuck, what a bunch of fucking crybabies you all are.

1) Pantera was nu-metal. Or mallcore, if you prefer that term. They weren't metal. Anyone who has been listening to metal for the last 20 years (like myself) knows this. I'd bet the majority of you are probably early twenties who's first taste of "metal" was bands like Machine Head, Fear Factory (Demanufacture-era), or other bands that came out in the early 90s, none of whom were really metal. Metal is about metal riffs and metal attitude. A band that downtuned their guitars is not metal. A band that emerged from being a hair band is not metal. You don't get it because none of you knows what metal is. You think you do, but you don't.

2) Shad, thank you for completely missing the fucking point. The point wasn't "is Black Sabbath metal?" (which, obviously they were - moreso than Pantera and their washed-up fans could ever hope to be). Sabbath were pretty much the originators of doom metal, and you can trace the influences of 99% of doom bands back to them. Pantera were the originators of nothing, except maybe the first transition of a hair band to shit. I, for one, was completely caught off-guard in seeing a shitty band become shittier. Oh, and Phil Anselmo's "black metal" projects are worthy of the fags you've all demonstrated yourselves to be.

3) Mark, another "thank you" for missing the fucking point. I said Samoth was a better guitarist than Dimebag (a truth). I included him in a list of other guitarists that are better and more influential to metal than Dimebag and Pantera could ever hope to be. You focusing on one guitarist I mentioned is indicative of how narrow-minded Pantera fans are. They don't know shit about metal. And, uh, yeah, I actually know a thing or two about guitars and I can tell you the composition and structure of the guitar playing in Emperor is much higher than anything that fucking dink Dimebag ever strummed out. Fuck, are you for real?

4) Fuck you all. If you knew a thing or two about metal (not the cock rock that Pantera and your other bands like to shit out their asses) feel free to reply. Otherwise, go back to your fucking candlelight vigils and leave the metal discussion to those who know a thing or two about the style, you fucking douchebags.

41 people hear need to respect and have an open mind. I listen to everything from 2pac to venom to the doors to pantera, to creedence. I respect all music, unlike u fucking twats who got to bash dime so goddamn hard, grow up, he is a great guitarist, maybe in your opinion not the best, but why dont you fucking swing a full bottle then try to play fucking regular people and floods by heart. U know what, respect music , if u dont have a open mind, you need to be killed immediately, all you do is pollute people with whats :Real metal: oh wow, all of mayham can suck my dick, they have no real groove, its all blast beats, which im sick of hearing from 300 million faggot black metal bands, ( i like black metal too not all tho), fucking respect man, you guys cant even respect shit, grow up you arrogent fool, its people like you that brainwash our fucking country with your stupid racist propaganda, i dont fuckin care about whats real metal, pantera crushed and thats all that fucking matter, they didnt puss out for the media, or for what that matter is, they didnt puss out like metallica or whatever, at least they brought thrash metal and power groove to a new level, they didnt rip off exholder eaither, ive listen to exholder, and they dont sound a like, even the members said that pantera were good friends. who cares bout nu metal, pantera might of spawned it, but if you listened to all of far beyond driven your dumbass venom (by the way, sucks ass now anyways) they arent really nu metal. You can suck my dick you fucking stereotypical metalhead, its you metalhead(s) that are really pissin everyone off, go burn your church down, while you beat off your dad, and continuiously fist your fucking self. Respect, dude, grow up, i wish i could fucking kill you people for your arrogence, im a bit goin off right now, but dude i know people who are all bout real metal (bet ya consider judas preist nu metal too), who respected dime, becuase he added a crush at the time to what type of music was being pussified, they respected him as a good guitarist, up with chuck too. they respect, they have a O P E N mind, and are considerabley nice people, people that ive met that are close minded (surely like you) are people ive had to beat the living shit out of, or pull my fucking glock on there stupid asses. Fuck you, and GROW UP.

42 Hahahahaha, ahh, luke, that was the funniest fucking thing I read all day!!

", they didnt puss out for the media"

Haha, I guess you'd call hair metal "real fucking hardcore metal," right? Haha, you fucking nimrod.

Here's the best fucking line of your idiotic rant:

"Respect, dude, grow up, i wish i could fucking kill you people for your arrogence"

LMAO! Can you say "hypocrite?" I knew you could.

"...at least they (Pantera)brought thrash metal and power groove to a new level..."

The fact you think Pantera was anywhere remotely connected to thrash metal shows you know shit about thrash metal specifically, and metal in general. Thrash metal was early Slayer, early Metallica, early Megadeth, Destruction, Kreator, Sodom, and Sacrifice, to name a few. Pantera had nothing of this in ANY of their songs. Fuck you. Whatever shred of credibility you thought you had, you lost it.

"all of mayham can suck my dick, they have no real groove, its all blast beats, which im sick of hearing from 300 million faggot black metal bands."

Metal isn't about "groove" you dumb fuck. It's about attitude and riffs. Regardless of "groove," Mayhem were infinitely more influential on metal than Pantera ever was. You don't understand, because you don't know very much about metal. Too bad, so sad for you.

"they respect, they have a O P E N mind, and are considerabley nice people, people that ive met that are close minded (surely like you) are people ive had to beat the living shit out of, or pull my fucking glock on there stupid asses."

Wow, you sure are tough. I bet you pulled a glock out on their stupid asses, didn't you, tough guy. Or, maybe more accurately, you pulled your cock out on their asses? Your hissy fit is what one might expect from a woman.

1) Learn some grammar. Yours sucks. But, then again, so does your interpretation of what metal is.

2) I never said Dimebag wasn't a good guitarist (see one of my original posts, you dumb fuck). I said he was decent, but that there were many more guitarists who were a) better, and b) more metal (i.e. metal in themselves, or influential to other metal bands). Dimebag doesn't even get an honorable mention here. His kind of music pretty much killed heavy metal and created mallcore shit that you worship.

3) Fuck off.

4) You're a complete hypocrite. You preach respect and what not, yet every second line from you is about killing me (or people like me). As a hypocrite, your opinion is completely worthless.

5) See 3.

43 Pantera YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

44 hi im YODA and i rok, YODA YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

45 pantera is still a great band, if it is metal or what...? i dont know and dont care, i never thougth of them as a metal band, but more like something hard...
of course that jazz - metal - rnr - groove guitar that made it all happen was allso the big part of it.... it was ..hmm.. it was like a slash in gnr (his guitar made all the difference, thou the whole band rules)
i think he was (darrel) even a guitarist of the year (one year after eric clapton had his accoustic layla played on mtv unplugged...)
but never the less, was the man with idea

PLANET CARAVAN was one of the songs that had sth special , especcially the fadeouted guitar, although it is remix, u can still sence the feeling the band had,
and
GOOD FRIENDS AND A BOTTLE OF PILLS
i mean listen to that guitar and say anything
i think bas guitar was just placed near the drumms and vibrated by its own at every hit of a drum...
well it was, it is, and it will be a great band and influence for me, and it was very tragic to see what happened...

theres no bussiness like show bussines

as a recording artist i think they were deep, but thou i overgrown metal and am now into all sorts of different shit, i ve kept it in my hearth and will be part of me until ... i gues.. someone shoot me off the stage

(btw; that almost did happened already FEW times to me...it sucks ass)

dunno if it helps, but im sorry that shit happened , sorry for the victoms,sorry for the band, sorry for the people on (and off) the concert, fans, realtives, but mostly im sorry for the idiots that are still present in our civilised(?!) society...

46 Venom i guess you just hate pantera so much that you cant admit dimebag was a great guitarist, that just shows how narrow-minded you are. It seems that only you know what metal is, only you know the best guitar players and the rest of us are all wrong? are you for real? dont you think you are too old to be thinking that way? Like mark said, the experts disagree, i guess you could go and tell them your opinion, maybe take a couple of guitar lessons also while you are at it?. I must however admit that i dont think pantera is heavy metal, but thats not the point. Dimebag was and is well respected, and that respect is well earned.

so here you go claiming that dimebag was "ok", let me just ask you why he is just ok, i mean could you tell me why the experts are wrong, when they say he was perhaps one of the best guitar players around, and why you are right, i would so much like to hear this one.btw, sorum is indeed a complete monkey with a guitar, i bet the experts wont disagree with me on that one.

47 those of you who say pantera did more harm then good to metal pleas your bullshitting yourself and are most likely a bunch of techno new age fags. who set there and jerk off to your latest moby or eminem cd. but those are just my thoughts on what you had to say. to those who agree that pantera was and always will be one of the classic heavy metal bands of all time good for you and keep the music going. THE TREND IS DEAD MOTHERFUCKERS

48 Wow this Venom dude is real nutcase, to say Pantera was never a metal band and their riffs werent Metal is just plain stupid!!! Ur fuckin nutjob mate along with Nathan gale.

RIP DIMEBAG 66-04 thanks for the great music and everlasting inspiration..... \m/

ps metal is music not frekin noise like that dumb bitch cindy stated! thanyou.

49 yah this fuckin venom dude really fuckin stupid. your so fuckin caught up in what you think is metal that you dont even see how great pantera is. if you even listened to them you would understand. you probably heard "walk" or "5 minutes alone"(which are great songs) and thought that was all they were good for. well fact and sad truth is they got sloppy, but you listen to cowboys from hell and you hear songs like "shattered" and "heresy" and its just fucking undeniable that Dimebag had skill that very very very few could ever posess. now thats just a record. then if you caught one of their shows and saw how drunk they were onstage and pulled off the music flawlessly you would be fucking amazed. obviously you didnt follow pantera so you have no grounds to speak any kind of disrespect especially when you hold up bullshit pussy ass reject bands like fucking "emperor" to be better than pantera. and if this whole thing was in person i would personally knock your ass out with a big ass smile on my face for even saying that panteras break up was no loss.

50 yah this fuckin venom dude is really fuckin stupid. your so fuckin caught up in what you think is metal that you dont even see how great pantera is. if you even listened to them you would understand. you probably heard "walk" or "5 minutes alone"(which are great songs) and thought that was all they were good for. well fact and sad truth is they got sloppy, but you listen to cowboys from hell and you hear songs like "shattered" and "heresy" and its just fucking undeniable that Dimebag had skill that very very very few could ever posess. now thats just a record. then if you caught one of their shows and saw how drunk they were onstage and pulled off the music flawlessly you would be fucking amazed. obviously you didnt follow pantera so you have no grounds to speak any kind of disrespect especially when you hold up bullshit pussy ass reject bands like fucking "emperor" to be better than pantera. and if this whole thing was in person i would personally knock your ass out with a big ass smile on my face for even saying that panteras break up was no loss.

51 Yeah, well just comparing dime and sorum makes me want to cry, what sorum i just one of those who lack personality, atleast dime had something original, rather than copy from other bands. Next time when you bash pantera you might consider not mentioning sorum, i mean, sorum.....come on.

52 Well, lets start off with the basics: Pantera IS metal. Dimebag WAS a great player. And nobody (at least, in the threads i've read) has talked about it much, but Pantera started off really bad. But we must also admit they managed to turn from mediocre glam metal (Metal Magic, I am the night, Power Metal, all before Cowboys from hell), into a great metal band. Is Pantera REAL metal, was Dimebag one of the best ever? Both are argueable, and both miss the real point. As a listener, i must say that:

a) Pantera, in the 4 main albums we all know, really rocks,
b) i have to include them in the metal genre,
c) Dimebag plays like few others i've heard, in this genre.

And what's "true" metal? Venom says it has to do with the riffs, and the metal attitude. I'm about 30, and i've started to listen to metal with bands like Metallica, Venom, Sabbath, Savatage, Sodom, Kiss (terrible, i know), Cooper, Priest, Manowar, Maiden, Motorhead, Slayer, Testament, etc, etc. Throughout the years, metal has changed, and we with it. I've listened to bands like Amorphis, Deicide, Pantera, and still consider them all metal, just variations from the same source. The so-called nu metal, like Deftones or Korn or Limp Bizkit, is for me quite different from Pantera, because: a) they are in no way that heavy, b) they dont have, as Venom says, the riffs or the metal attitude. They're mostly (shitty) posers. Some have qualities, like (for me) Deftones, but still i wouldnt call them "true" metal.



But i would not define "true metal" as simply "riffs and attitude", although it certainly has to do with that; considering music history, i'd say that metal is much more related to classical music, in the way that it doesnt have the "groove" that other genres tend to have, but rather a very direct, simple approach to a certain melodic structure, and type of performance. Great metal bands have great players, unlike pop, for example. Who would try to compare, without being mad or drunk, Edge from U2 to Dimebag from Pantera, or any mainstream bass player you can name, to Dimaio from Manowar?

For sure, metal doesnt have much that classical pieces do have, but it does relate to it more, than for example pop, rap, reggae, blues, or other genres. And it has anger. It has furious riffs, drums, lyrics, vocals, and yes, attitude. Not the Korn/Bizkit-like oh-poor-me-my-parents-didnt-give-me-enough-attention or my-girlfriend-left-me-so-i'll-whine-a-bit attitude,
but rather the who-gives-a-flying-fuck, hail-and-kill kind of attitude, if you get what i mean.

And Pantera had that attitude, and the talent to make some great songs. It may not be "pure" metal, as metal goes, but they were not wimps or posers. When listening to Cowboys from hell, Walk, Rise, Fucking hostile, I'm broken, Domination, Drag the waters, and many others, how can we not consider this a great metal band, displaying anger in its pure form, in a variation (if you want to be a purist) of "true metal", but still great metal nevertheless?

Well, its just my opinion. Cheers,
Rui, Portugal

53 Rui, kudos to you for actually having a brain in your head. I completely disagree with you about Pantera being metal, and most real metalheads in their 30s (read: those who grew up and saw heavy metal emerge and mature in its heydey) agree that Pantera was NOT metal. Yes, they're loud. Yes, they play fast. Me putting a disco record on 45 and cranking up the volume doesn't make it metal, but the way you listen to most of the fuckwits writing in this thread you'd think that's all that matters. Pantera wasn't metal. And yes, it is about riffs and attitude. Real heavy metal riffs (which I'd love to hear what some of these dinks consider a real heavy metal riff). And real attitude. Not the made-up kind that Pantera conned millions of pansy-assed kids (like the kind that have stood up in this thread to defend Pantera) into thinking they had.

And evan, I'm fucking stupid? At least I know how to not double-post. You might want to bone up on that while you're taking a break from boning your boyfriend.

Oh, and evan, again: Pantera's break-up was no big loss to metal, since it never even had an impact. But hey, any retard like yourself can talk big over a keyboard, so fuck you. You talk tough, but we all know you'd much rather be playing with your dollies.

As for ufo claiming that "experts" considered Dimebag one of the greatest guitarists ever...well...do I really need to debate how idiotic this statement is? I mean, what "experts?" The ones you invent in your head to administer some kind of credibility to your moronic claim? There are probably thousands of guitarists (both metal and non-metal) who are heads and shoulders better musicians than Dimebag. He was an ok guitarist with a bunch of misinformed youth thinking he was this god. It's not my fault that people like evan, luke, or any of the other douchebags who don't know a thing or two about metal are getting pissed off when I call them on it.

The fact that Dimebag is dead doesn't suddenly elevate him into this legend of a guitar player. He wasn't while he was alive, so how can he suddenly be that much better? Give it up.

54 Oh, and Rui, it sort of got lost in my last post, that while I may disagree with you about Pantera, at least your showing some knowledge about metal, which is a far cry from what most of the other idiots propping up Pantera are displaying.

55 You're all stupid, niave, little children. Dimebag sucked. I wasn't going to say it because I have respect for the dead, but just reading you all moan on and on about how much of a God he was is making me sick. He's as much of a sellout as Kerry King (but I suppose you guys will disagree with me on that one, because Kerry King is a bad ass, right?) This is what happends when musicians die, flocks of children with no sense of who they are start claiming they were fans so they can gain attention for their "loss". I bet half of you are faggot Slipknot fans. If you all had half a brain you would relize Venom was just stating facts. Pantera is NOT metal, and the length of time they've been around plays no part in which genre a band fits in. If you can't accept this, you are the only ignorant ones.

56 Venom,
Like you said, anybody can talk tough over the keyboard, but I'm not really about that shit. Email me and I will give you my address, or you can give me yours and I will beat the living shit out of your goddamn cocky ass, no problem. Don't be a pussy and do it, or you become another one of those little bitches who try to act tough over the keyboard.

57 u guys are fuck heads, Dimebag was fucking awsome, but Randy rhodes has got to be the greatest guitarest of all time hands down.

58 dude i wasnt even pissed venom, i just think you need to grow up and open your mind. I listen to the Metal you listen to, but i listen to everything from primus to pantera, to black sabbath, hell to NWA.. to classical, and blues players, i see how now the people out there look at heavy metal fans as disrespectful peices of shits, and narrow minded and ignorent. thats why i stopped acting like a metal head, and more like a man, i dont give a fuck if udont like pantera, i do, and respect that, I THOUGHT they were metal and thats a OPINION not a fucking FACT you retard. I also think Venom is metal too!,but its not about whos the HARDEST or fastest ITs about variety, and what you really like. I like pantera, cuz i like them, i know theres many great guitarists, but my opinion was dime was my favorite, so grow the fuck up and be a man and respect peoples opinions, stop acting like a 7th grade wanker. Just cuz its NOT METAL To you doesnt make it cool period!. your a selfish motherfucker. Its all facts in your book right? wrong you fuck. You are the stereotypical asshole metalhead who doesnt have a heart, just pure hate, and it do it cuz its soo cool with your culture, right? i love metal but i dont act like a rampling faggot fan, Those bands arent even as negotive or low as you get, so continue your life flipping burgers, cuz with your attitude your only going to go large amounts of shit!, oh yea i know about panteras glam albums and there not that great, but u know all bands start somewhere before they achieve the sound they want.. i started in a basic gnr type band and evovled into a metal band does that call me a poser, sorry but people start somewhere, and will GROW up eventually.

I dont even give a fuck about your stupid opinions eaither, but i RESPECT them.

59 yah venom...i dont know what im talking about because i double posted?? im not a computer nerd fuck face. and if panteras break up was no big deal then howcome half of the magazines you saw during that 2 year period all had something or other to do with what was happening next with pantera?? dont argue with me over this shit...i sure i know a lot more than you about them. so fuck you.

60 I guess ufo meant other guitarist and bands when he used the word "experts", just to let you know venom, i rather believe them than an emperor loving idiot. Dimebag did something original, but i must say that when i think of metal i dont think of pantera, they just dont mix. I like pantera myself but i can safely admit that it is not metal, i dont even know what it is but i like it, and thats enough for me. Dimebag had an impact for he is one well know guitarist and he has honestly earned that respect. Just to let the others know, venom is a stubborn asshole whose oppinion cannot be changed, consider him to be a cranky old man who only remembers the good old times, he also seems to "knows" everything, so you can just forget about everything you ever read about dimebag and how good he really was, because the messiah is here, hail venom. Why do you even give a fuck what he says anyway, theres always someone who doesnt think the same way as you guys, live with it instead of having a stupid forum "fight". Only thing i dont get is how can you disagree with the people who are in fact in the music business, the same people who consider dime to one of the greatest.

61 Venom apparently thinks he's some kind of metal trivia king, probably collects a ton of shitty unheard of metal albums because they are "classics." Well, buddy, Pantera's music influenced people just like the shit you listed as your favorites. Who cares if Pantera's sound wasnt EXACTLY like other metal bands. Actually, who CARES what fucking genre it is? I bet after you purchase a CD, you have a little list to verify that it fits every single stringent metal rule, and throw it away if it doesent meet them all, right? Music changes, if it didnt, we'd be listening to a bunch of shitty african drum beats right now. Most bands try to steer away from their genre's norm and develop a unique sound, and Pantera did that.

62 You guys... All of you... Metal is not defined as a straight-line here. Do you understand hwo many different types of metal there are? Classic Metal is what Venom is more into, obviously. And hell, Calssic is awesome. Nu-Metal is not metal at all. It isn't hard rock because for hard rock you ahve to be able to actually play your instruments. If you go through and listen to nu-metal most of it will change right there. Mudvayne released 3 cd's, I believe, and now their music is just rock. (I actually hate that band but I like their new stuff.) And you people talking about Korn having no anger or intensity. The intensity thing is right, Korn has no intesnsity. But anger.. Korn has a lot of anger, Jonathon Davis is one angry emo kid. (He was raped by his dad and the media is putting a lot of pressure on Korn and insulting them at every turn.) But just because Pantera infulenced every Nu-Metal band out there doesn't make them Nu-Metal themselves. That just means Nu-Metal bands listen to Pantera and try to copy them. You said Ministry isn't metal... It's called Industrial Metal. That is what NIN and Manson is. That is what Skinny Puppy is. Out of all the different types of metal i have heard there are... Classic Metal, New Wave of Brittish Heavy Metal (Iron Maiden), Black Metal, Melodic Metal, Goth Metal, Death Metal, Art Metal, Industrial Metal, Nu-Metal, Thrash Metal, Southern Metal, Christian Metal, Shred, Love Metal, and just plain metal.

To get to guitarists... Venom you have no right to be talking about this here. Honestly, Dimebag was a great riffer. Dimebag was a COUNTRY METAL guitarist. SOUTHERN ROCK. If you had any clue as to what music is.. you would know this. His dad taught him how to play. His dad was a country artist. Zakk Wylde is a Country Metal guitarist mixed with blues. More Southern Rock right there. If you doubt Pantera being metal, you doubt Zakk Wylde being metal. If you doubt that Zakk Wylde is metal... you start doubting Ozzy. Then you doubt Black Sabbath being metal. Though you mgiht nto think of it in your mind, you are doubting Black Sabbath being metal right when you say Pantera isn't metal. So just shut your mouth.

You people give metalheads bad names. Arguing continuously over this same topic. Throwing curses at each other. Can't you have an intelligent conversation without cursing? If you can't... you are an ignorant bastard. Telling people they probably sit there and jack off to Eminem because they like Techno... How dare you. Techno is actually awesome. But hey, I'm one of those Rythym guys. If you pay attention to music then you can start understanding everything better.

Someone said every 80's hair metal band was not metal. OZZY WAS A HAIR METAL BAND! Your stupid. Just because they were hair metal doesn't mean they weren't metal. Motley Crue was metal.. but they were Pop as well. IS there a strict line saying that you can't be pop and metal? NO.

The comment on Black Sabbath starting Doom Metal.. I totally agree. I love Doom. Like Type O Negative, Paradise Lost, Virgin Black. Those bands are awesome.

There was one more thing... The reason Dimebag was a great guitarist... You can tell his playing from anyone elses. Thats why Tony Iommi is a great player. A lot of his stuff sounds the same though. Thats why Jimi Hendrix was great. Thats why Zakk Wylde is great and Randy Rhoads. You can't put Steve Vai in that category can you? No, because everyone started sounding like him when he was in Whitesnake. And he kept that sound. Though he is a great player just from his melody he plays.

This is a thread on Dimebag's death. Why insult a dead man? That is very, very disrespectful. Dimebag went on stage pissed drunk and still played the hell out of his guitar. Better than players who were sober. He sat down with Sebastian Bach's son and showed the kid riffs when he was still VERY young. He was a great man. He loved home videos, he loved music. Thats all he is. He is music. And that one track Suicide Note pt. 1 he DID solo on it. It was a really slow solo. That will be all.

63 You know... Nobody even mentioned Damageplan here. Damageplan was the band Dime was in when he died. The singer was in Halfords solo band. The bassist was a friend of theirs from Dallas. My brother drank with Dime and Vinnie at their club in Dallas. And I was looking forward to seeing Damageplan this summer...

You know Pantera would have gotten back together in another year or two. If Nathan Gale would have been in his right mind then he would have waited. Gale was a psycho... thats all. If there was an after party Dime would have been killed there instead of in the middle of a set. He was actually looking for the after party and when he found out there wasn't one he got pissed off and did it in the club. There is horrible security at clubs. Sad really.

64 This forum has somehow turned from Pantera and Dimebag, into a lets-see-who-bashes-Venom-the-most competition.

Venom knows his metal and what he likes, and he's open and direct about it, not being an indulgent little shit like lots of people unfortunately are. Calling him names just for saying what he feels, doesnt make much sense. And Venom seems to play along, insulting the people that insulted him. It may be somehow fun, but it all still looks silly to me.

We disagree about Pantera, I think its metal, although maybe not "pure" metal, while he doesnt find it metal at all; so what? A forum, correct me if i'm wrong, is a place for debate; we all dont have to agree on everything. If we did, it wouldnt be a debate.

And Venom, I still disagree with that "real attitude", and if Pantera "conned millions of pansy-assed kids", then I must say I'm among them: I liked, and still like, a lot of their songs,
and whenever I hear Walk, I'm broken or Drag the waters,
I dont feel like a pansy, at all. I stand by what I've said: Pantera really rocks. And Dimebag is a fundamental part of their fast, heavy, ass-kicking music, a great guitar player. You have your reasons to disagree, and none of us will persuade the other. Thats quite ok.

Even so, I see your point, its a fact that Pantera didnt really follow the "true metal" path, and they somewhat took advantage of some trend that led to the current nu-metal posers we have today. Still, I like their sound. They found their own place, and evolved from tacky glam metal, into something much different, much heavier. I dont like everything from them, but I also dont like everything from bands like Maiden, Sabbath or Manowar, all of which I consider "true" metal. Do you disagree with any of these choices for "true" metal?

So, did metal die before the 90s, and everything since is just "fake" metal? I dont think so. And bands like Pantera kept metal alive, whether we like them or not. Nowadays, some people think Limp Bizkit is metal. Some pansy-asses (borrowing Venom's expression) even think that Creed or Bon Jovi are a sort a hard rock, almost-metal. I say, fuck the labels, consider what Pantera and Dimebag did really well, and if you have to bitch, do it about what other bands - that even have "metal" in their names - did: sell out. Which Pantera never did, until the end.

Again, just my opinion. Cheers,
Rui, Portugal

65 Got to agree with Brian here,and by the way, Jonathan Davis was not raped by his dad.

"People think Daddy was written because my dad fucked me up the ass, but that's not what the song's about. It wasn't about my dad or my mom. When I was a kid I was being abused by someone else and I went to my parents and told them about it. They thought I was lying and joking around, so they never did shit about it. They didn't belive it was happening to their son." - Jonathan Davis

66 RIP Dime. That's all. You didn't deserve this. You and the rest of Pantera took the metal world by storm and never let up. When things didn't work out with Pantera, you didn't let it hold you down, and you kept on making good ol' fuckin' rock. What a shame...

67 Well honestly im interested in a real discussion about metal with Brian, Rui, and Venom or anyone else who thinks they can put a coherent sentence together. Would you go more in depth Venom into what you are saying defines metal, the riffs for example? Or just use Metallica to make your point, what do you call a metal riff and where exactly did they stop? This shit is all pretty interesting to me and id like to know what you guys are thinking

peace

68 LOL, man, looks like this thread will have more staying power than anything Pantera ever did for metal...

First off, Kyle, you're a douchebag. Why the fuck would I give you my address? Because I'm scared of you? Give me a break. Like I need all the nu-metal halfwits also knowing where I live. And any dink who would travel across the country to try (emphasis on try) to kick someone's ass sounds like they're pretty fucking desperate for some kind of self-validation. What, I completely tear down your ability to discern what metal is, so you need to prove to yourself you're still a man? Pretty fucking sad. Why don't you post your address for all of us to read, tough guy? You claim you've got the balls, but I don't think you do. The degree to which you are a fag continues to boggle the mind, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Lightening: thank you. It's nice to see that some people out there still know the basic differences between what's metal and what isn't. If someone likes Pantera, you know what, I don't give a shit. That person can like them all they want. But I take issue if someone tries to equate them with metal(especially when metal as a genre is dying). They're not. And the only people who think they are are those who were born less than 20 years ago, or have only been interested in what they think is metal for a short period of time.

evan: "yah venom...i dont know what im talking about because i double posted?? im not a computer nerd fuck face. and if panteras break up was no big deal then howcome half of the magazines you saw during that 2 year period all had something or other to do with what was happening next with pantera??"

Because they know that dinks like yourself would buy their magazines because they happened to mention Pantera? C'mon, you're not this dense, are you?

"dont argue with me over this shit...i sure i know a lot more than you about them."

lol, nope, you don't. Sorry, try again.

dumdidum: Not one of those quotes that was posted earlier in this thread (from music industry "experts") was metal. How qualified are they to give an opinion as to what's metal? About as qualified as you, it seems. Knowing what's metal and what isn't doesn't make me a "messiah," but it does give me the grounding to talk about it. With a scant few exceptions here, not many others can, it seems. And, what's with the constant focusing on Emperor? Is this the only straw your grasping at to make a point?

Mike: "Who cares if Pantera's sound wasnt EXACTLY like other metal bands."

Fuck, are you missing the point here? It's not whether or not Pantera should have sounded "exactly" like other metal bands. It's that they weren't metal. Venom, Sacrifice, and early Judas Priest sounded completely different from each other, but they were all metal. Pantera wasn't. As was implied by Lightening, just because a band is considered "heavy" doesn't make them metal. Sure, Pantera had a ton of fans and they played their musi loud and had long hair and tatoos. Doesn't make them metal. There seems to be this rationale that if a band has these traits and doesn't fit the punk, alternative, or rock 'n roll mould, then they must (somehow) by default be metal. And that's the problem. They're not metal. They're nu-metal (which, despite the name, doesn't mean they're metal - the term is used in a derogatory manner by those who know what metal is).

"I bet after you purchase a CD, you have a little list to verify that it fits every single stringent metal rule, and throw it away if it doesent meet them all, right? "

You bet wrong.

"Music changes, if it didnt, we'd be listening to a bunch of shitty african drum beats right now. "

Very true, but I'm not out there calling Blink 182 "punk" just because the band only knows how to play 3 chords. And I'm not out there calling Vangelis "classical" because he uses a keyboard. To people who know what metal is, it's not really a hard distinction to make in calling Pantera nu-metal. What's the problem here?

"Most bands try to steer away from their genre's norm and develop a unique sound, and Pantera did that."

Wellll, if they're getting "away from their genre's norm," then they're not really in that genre anymore, are they? So, how can you continue to call them that genre? Not that I'm calling Pantera metal, but just to illustrate your poor grasp at logic here.

Brian: "Classic Metal is what Venom is more into, obviously. And hell, Calssic is awesome. Nu-Metal is not metal at all."

Well, yes, I do like "classic metal," but there's a lot of cool shit being created today, too. I'm just not going to jump on the bandwagon and call everything metal just because it's played loud. But yeah, nice on being another person to notice nu-metal isn't metal. Now, if only the others here could see the forest for the trees.

"Dimebag was a COUNTRY METAL guitarist. SOUTHERN ROCK. If you had any clue as to what music is.. you would know this."

Ok, c'mon. Dimebag wasn't a metal guitarist. I don't care what kind of adjective you throw in front of it, it doesn't make it so. And the fact you have to describe it as southern rock shows he (and Pantera) are not even in the same fucking ballpark as metal. Really, is this that hard to understand for people?

"Zakk Wylde is a Country Metal guitarist mixed with blues. More Southern Rock right there. If you doubt Pantera being metal, you doubt Zakk Wylde being metal. If you doubt that Zakk Wylde is metal... you start doubting Ozzy. Then you doubt Black Sabbath being metal. Though you mgiht nto think of it in your mind, you are doubting Black Sabbath being metal right when you say Pantera isn't metal. So just shut your mouth."

Oh, c'mon! I don't give a shit if his father was fucking Ozzy Osbourne himself - if there's no metal in the music, it's not metal! You don't see people calling Iggy Popp metal because he had long hair, a hard lifestyle, and tattoos. And, frankly, if YOU want to get technical about this, Black Sabbath was a lot more influenced by the blues than it ever was by country. And if you can't hear that, then you're in the wrong fucking discussion. Country metal, give me a fucking break.

"Just because they were hair metal doesn't mean they weren't metal."

Hahaha...ahh, seriously, when did you start listening to metal?

"Motley Crue was metal.. but they were Pop as well. IS there a strict line saying that you can't be pop and metal? NO."

Not a "strict line" per so, but anyone who knows the absolute basic differences between what's metal and what isn't wouldn't make this kind of comment.

Rui: "Even so, I see your point, its a fact that Pantera didnt really follow the "true metal" path, and they somewhat took advantage of some trend that led to the current nu-metal posers we have today."

You're a lot closer to hitting the nail on the head than a lot of people here.

"I dont like everything from them, but I also dont like everything from bands like Maiden, Sabbath or Manowar, all of which I consider "true" metal. Do you disagree with any of these choices for "true" metal?"

Nope, they're all metal (if only Manowar didn't have those gay-looking album covers, though).

"And bands like Pantera kept metal alive, whether we like them or not."

Nah, they didn't. If anything, they accelerated metal's demise. They kept nu-metal alive, but that's about it.

Anyhow, you like Pantera, good for you. Despite what a lot of people might think, I'm not trying to turn their tastes away from Pantera. But I'm not going to call a band metal when I know they're not. I was alive and listening to metal when it was churning out great band after great band in the 80s, and truly establishing itself as a unique genre. When you hear all those bands over a decade, and compare them to what's being passed off as "metal" now, you know what's metal. It's not about evolution of the genre. It's about ignorance of the genre.

Ben: Rather than pick songs for you, I'll give you a bunch of band names and I'll let you discover what constitutes metal (don't worry, not trying to be an asshole with you, but I find you learn more if you do it on your own). Take a listen to the following bands: early Iron Maiden, early Judas Priest, early Metallica, early Megadeth, early Slayer, Venom, Sodom, Sacrifice (these last two bands in particular are a must if anyone really digs metal), Possessed, Celtic Frost, Bathory, Death, early Morbid Angel, early Destruction, Kreator, early Exciter, early Annihilator...These bands are each a subgenre within metal, with each falling into at least one of these: classic heavy metal, thrash metal, black metal, speed metal, and death metal. There are loads of other great metal bands, but these will get you started.

Now, after listening to these bands that in large part defined what's metal, take a listen to: Pantera, Damageplan, System of a Down, Machine Head, Coal Chamber, and Korn. These are popular nu-metal bands, and you'll notice the difference right away.

Good luck.

69 Get over it, metal is dying, pantera is not metal, and why does it have to be metal? I mean for example i like korn, but i dont go around claiming that its metal just because they can play "hard" or because i just want them to be metal?. I think dimebag is a great guitarist and thats my opinion, people will always disagree if they are talking about music.

Venom is not saying pantera is crappy because its not metal, he is just saying its not metal. And if the man does not like pantera or does not have any respect for dime its his business, you think a forum "fight" is gonna change that?

And btw i do like pantera, so this has nothing to do with me not liking them. i just dont have that "pantera is metal coz they play hard lool!" attitude that you guys seem to have here. Like i said in the beginning, you dont need to call it metal just so you can listen to them.

sorry about my english, im from finland.

70 Well said, sphere. And Pantera aren't metal for many reasons, attitude is just part of the reason. Musically, they're not even in the same ballpark.

71 Indeed, i think people these days arent quite sure what is metal or even what rock is, and what i mean by this that you hear pop groups claiming that they are rock all the time. There is so many different music out there that some people have a hard time finding out what music they really are listening to, all these country metal,doom metal,trash metal terms are,to be honest,giving me a headache, so i dont even know what "kind" of music im listening these days and for me thats ok, i just enjoy it. some bands themselves dont seem to know what they are, for example korn has been influenced by so many different music styles that you just cant call it blues,metal or rock, but i guess there is a official term for korns music but either way i hope you get the point.(some page said it is trash metal?)

This discussion first started about dimebag so i guess i will give you my opinion in that matter also. I think he was great, one of my favourites, so with that said i can safely end this post.

72 For fucks sake, what the fuck is it with nu-metal this, thrash metal this, heavy metal this, i'm more of a metal head than you bullshit?

Dime WAS one of the fucking greats. Why? well if you'd ever heard that guy play, or better seen him live, you'd know. Who gives a fuck if Pantera 'spawned' nu metal (which they fucking didn't) or killed grunge or whatever, the guy was amazing, the band were amazing. That's all there is to it.

Besides, it's fucked up for ANYONE to get murdered for no reason at all, so does the fact that you did or didn't like him mean shit anyway? Being a fan makes it more of a tragedy but not being one doesn't make it any less of a bad thing.

RIP Dime

73 name 10 guitarists BETTER than dime, then see what everyone else thinks. If you can't do it, it just proves that he was one of the best (in the top 10).

74 Well, let's see...if we're talking metal guitarists (which dimebag wasn't, remember), then I'd have to say: Jeff Hanneman, Marty Friedman, Dave Mustaine, Tony Iommi, Hank Sherman, Larry Lalonde, Jeff Waters, John Ricci, Rick Hunolt, and Joe Rico, in their heydeys, were better guitarists than dimebag ever was. Hell, Kirk Hammett was better. Of course, you'll disagree with me because you've probably never heard of most of these guys, let alone listened to any of their bands' albums.

Now, if we're looking at ALL guitarists, regardless of music style, dimebag wouldn't even register in the top 100.

Sorry, that's just the way it is.

75 dime was great.

76 just listen to cemetary gates and tell me that the solo does not make the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end. If this is true, well, your dead.