1 While you are right that there is a lot of unwarranted breathlessness about this story there are some interesting bits that are only touched on by certain reporters.

The big discovery here is a means of preparing the metal in a form that oxidizes without forming a skin that would otherwise bring the process to a halt. And there is a lot of oxygen waste but since you can use the oxygen in combustion and then vent the water vapor kind of like a rocket jettisoning a stage after the fuel is used only in a slow and continuously weight loss. And the aluminum that is "consumed" is meant to be recycled so while it is not a new "power source" it is a new means of power storage that does not need high pressure hydrogen tanks. Other research projects are looking at ways to may the reduction back to metalic aluminum more efficient but I can't comment on the progress on that. Maybe this will be less useful for cars than for trucks, trains, or other transport, or even for home power supply (it produces waste heat which can be stored for underground for winter).

I have also heard that the weight of the water and metal will be not much more than an extra really fat passenger but I might have misremembered that so don't quote me.   

2 Aluminum in its natural state is aluminum oxide.

Where the hell is the gain?

3 Saul Wall sez:

And there is a lot of oxygen waste but since you can use the oxygen in combustion...

Except that you can't.  In this process, the waste oxygen isn't in a form useful for combustion.

1st to fight sez:

Aluminum in its natural state is aluminum oxide.

Well there's some unoxidized aluminum in the natural universe, but for the most part, that's right.

Where the hell is the gain?

There isn't one--no NET gain, anyway.  The (chemically) free aluminum and water combination is just being used as an energy storage machanism--and not a particularly mass-efficient one.  This is one of those "solution in search of a problem" things.

4 I personally have plans for a special carburetor, that the oil companies have tried to suppress, that will allow you to get 90 MPG in your car. For plans just send me $19.95 + shipping and handling.

5 Saul Wall sez:

The big discovery here is a means of preparing the metal in a form that oxidizes without forming a skin that would otherwise bring the process to a halt.

Except that's not a new discovery, either.  Materials--including metals--capable of inhibiting aluminum surface oxidation have been known long before the present time.  Now I don't know that indium and gallium (group IIIA metals) have previously been specifically demonstrated to exhibit this property, but it's prefectly reasonable to expect that they would have this effect.  Mercury (a group IB metal) has been well-known for this inhibiting property for a long time.  World War II legend has it that allied saboteurs concocted an oxide-inhibiting paste capable of rotting German warplanes to pieces.  Some say the key ingredient in the paste was mercury.

6 Randman sez:

I personally have plans for a special carburetor, that the oil companies have tried to suppress, that will allow you to get 90 MPG in your car. For plans just send me $19.95 + shipping and handling.

That's funny.  I know a guy whose uncle's friend invented one of those years ago, except that his got 150 MPG--in a Lincoln Town Car, no less!  The car companies (all of them) broke in one night and stole his car and all the plans.  Their engineers took it apart and figured out exactly how it worked.  I know this is true because my cousin's best friend's boss' grandfather was one of the engineers, and he spilled the beans on his death bed.  (He also admitted that there really are aliens stored at Roswell and professional wrestling is absolutely real.)

At any rate, after figuring out how this carburetor worked, the car companies, in collusion with the oil companies, the Bilderbergs, the international Illuminati and the New World Order (aka "Novus Ordo Seclorum"--check out your money), successfully lobbied Congress to amend the laws of physics to specifically prevent this sort of thing from ever happening again.  Bastards.

7 I'd like to have a good carbide wheat lamp...  Bet we could make a carbide steam ginny that way.  Maybe even blow ourselves up trying.  who's in?

8 Another thing that they left out is that aluminum oxide requires tremendous energy to separate the AL form the O.

asw

9 #8  exactly!

It takes HUGE amounts of electricity to extract aluminum from oxide.  That is why the columbia river dams were built ... to power the aluminum industry.  That's why aircraft manufacturers (such as Boeing) were in the Northwest too.

It would take huge amounts of electricity to recover the aluminum from the waste oxide.  Overall it would be a major energy net loss.

The simple fact is that it consumes more energy to break the bond in the molecule than you get back when you recombine them.  It would probably be less of an energy loss to simply use excess nighttime nuclear power to create hydrogen electrically and inject it into the natural gas system and use the hydrogen enriched gas in fuel cells.

10 "Except that you can't.  In this process, the waste oxygen isn't in a form useful for combustion."

Right. I had the concept of electrolysis of water in my head when I wrote that. Sorry.

While the skin prevention might not be new, the engineery type guys seem to think that something is novel about their process. (More economically viable than other methods, faster conversion? You would have to ask them why they are all excited about it.)

If it is not very good in it's mass versus energy ratio, maybe it could have other uses. I have also heard of other metals being proposed as sources of hydrogen such as zinc. Could there be a metal out there which can be reduced more efficiently than aluminum yet still release usable amounts of hydrogen? I realize that MSNBC and other non science media folks often get overworked about these stories but there are other, more science and technology oriented publications covering this. If this was a completely asinine idea, shouldn't they have been told by some of their consultants?

Anyway, I am in favor of coal-fired cars. They leave cool black fumes and it would provide work for all the little kids that we will get to shovel the stuff into the steamer in the trunks. Or maybe we could breed monkeys to do that. Fire-monkeys. They would need to be bald to avoid accidents. Bald fire-monkeys.

11 crosspatch said: "It would probably be less of an energy loss to simply use excess nighttime nuclear power to create hydrogen electrically and inject it into the natural gas system and use the hydrogen enriched gas in fuel cells."

My knowledge of the physics of gases is as weak as my knowledge of metallurgy but if they need pressurized tanks to keep usable amounts of hydrogen in a car, would the amount of energy gained from enrichment of natural gas with low pressure hydrogen be all that much of a boost to the energy content? Otherwise were back to the original problem of hydrogen being hard to store in a car.

Coal cars people. That's the future.

12 What they don't talk about was they guy in California that took the idea from the guys house on the east coast.  I'm sure you've seen it he has solar cells and a whole back yard of crap.  Well there is a fuel cell that uses solar energy and electrolysis to ceate hyrogen and oxygen to run a fuel cell.  He shrank it down a resonalble cost and size.  As I recall six or eight of these would run a house and also provide excess back to the grid just like solar.  But it saved fuel made during the day so it workeds worked at night. Only problem it decentralized power production. You paid money one time you got power and could by the extre if you neded it. The power compaines can't allow you to have/own/operate this. If they can't control it, it must die.  Seems there was some stories in 2004. I'll look around. Probably the idea was bought and buried so deep....

13 So, like, what are Transformers powered by?

14

Much like Superman is powered by our yellow sun, I'm pretty sure Transformers are powered by the incredible white-hot, alloy-melting hotness of Megan Fox.  Just being in her presence is enough to keep them fully energized.

Hell, I'm pretty damn "energized" right now just watching her in a video clip...

15 SUPERMAN gets his powers from the earths yellow sun he is sepepital to green krpytonite but blue krptonite can heal him

16 If the price of ethanol keeps raising the price of corn get ready for smaller steaks and then soy bean pork chops.

1 I just paid $2.93 for the "cheap stuff" in Las Vegas. My gas records from a year ago say I paid $2.50 on 3 Apr 06 for the same "cheap stuff." Thanks, Harry and Nancy! :-P

2 The Dims give me gas.

They have a new angle that they are sending out in their newletter that ask for your ideas for an ad about the Iraq war. You can use it to send them a little love note like I did. Enjoy.

http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/IraqAd

3 The dimms have a plan, expect the amount of taxes you pay for gas to increase as fast as gas prices.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=16834
 

4 I suppose I'm the only one here who's fine with the high gas prices.

5 Why do all your vehicles have engines that can power an M1 Abrams?

$2.93! You'd better keep that quiet or we'll be over there taking your gas and selling it over here in Blighty for THREE times the price.

6 Ragnar Danneskjold, Arrogant Prick,
 
Jane you poor dumb ignorant slut..................
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=16834
 

7 Paid $2.73 per gallon for diesel today. Paid $2.73 per gallon a week after Katrina when the gulf rigs and distillers and 99% of gas station were shut down. Way to go democrats.   Seen Al Gore lately, He has swelled up like a pig. Global warming hasn't melted his ice cream. Cow farts are not causing global warming. Al Gore farts are.

8 I suppose I'm the only one here who's fine with the high gas prices.

I drive a Civic...I don't care.

9 "Why do all your vehicles have engines that can power an M1 Abrams?"     Because WE THE PEOPLE also happen to be the unorganized militia     The bigger the SUV, the more anarchists we can drive over the top of.       USA, all the way!

10 Randman: Ride a horse and you won't feel so quilty.

11 And I hope you never have a head on crash with me. The cops would probably make me fill out a report on what is was under my Badlander Chevy 4X4 560 Cubic Inch Diesel 4 dr. pickup. If fuel oil ever disappears I have enough room to install a wood burning steam engine in the back.

12 Republic insistance onn baed gremmor onle maekes Republic's luk laeke uneadoocated annd ijnorant childrun. It's the DEMOCRATIC PLAN wuther ewe laek id ore knot.

13

At least make it possessive - if you are gonna post in English, then post in English.

14 tbone, I still don't have you figured out yet                                
                          USA, all the way!

15 He's a crybaby with his hand out. De big white man be de problem wit de world.

16 I've got no love for either side, but I do care about the English language and alls I'm sayin is if the possesive form Democratic isn't palatable, then just say Democrat's but to have 'Democrat Plan' (I've seen this many times) and leave it like that just doesn't read well (I understand the name calling is important but it still makes the commentor sound uneducated). Dhimmicrat is creative. Anyway, what the hell do I know...

17 Nothing.

1 I don't think anyone disagrees that the climate has warmed in the last century as we have recovered from the Little Ice Age.  The issue is cause.  CO2 increase can be the RESULT of warming and not a cause.  Would billions spent on CO2 mitigation and "carbon credits" really change anything?  Can the US decrease CO2 emissions as fast as China is increasing theirs?  Doubtful.  It is also doubtful that this is the warmest period in this interglacial.  Even more doubt comes in when one learns that the interglacial before the last ice age was even warmer than this one.   Fossil trees are seen about 400 miles North of the current line where trees meet tundra in the Northern latitudes.


The major problem is that the thermometer was invented at about the same time the Little Ice Age was ending and there were no temperature records from the Medieval Warm Period aside from reports of vinyards in England, increased crop harvests in Northern Europe and less pack ice in the Northern Atlantic.  All temperature recordings taken since the invention of the thermometer show a gradual warming ... which should be just about peaked now.  I sincerely doubt we are going to get much more warming. 

The notion that Gore is trying to pass off to people is to look at the last hundred years and use that to project the next 100. 

2 One other data point.  As glaciers recede in the European alps, they are exposing tree branches and other bits of wood.  The wood carbon dates to about 5000 years ago.  At that time the areas that are now glacial were forest.  Yes, it is warming, but it is part of a natural cycle of warming and cooling.

3 But it snowed "yesterday" doesn't that prove that all theories about global warming are false.
Well if "they" are for it then I'm certainly against it.

4 John Ryan are you being sarcastic?, bombacious?, ignorant?, just a troll? Please once would you bear some fruit to your argument since open ended statements here and other places I have seen really make you look inmature.

5 Yes, the globe is warming, but how much of that warming is caused by man (anthropogenic)?

Some answers can be found at An Inconvenient Skeptic.  Lot's of vids,  documentaries and commentary not found in the MSM. Go figure!

6 This one is pretty funny.  Methane Causes Global Warming.

7

A few of you may of already surmized that I have a PHD in Climaxtology. I can say with complete certainty that if hillary is elected, the amount of man made climaxic heat that is affecting current global warming will in deed come to a complete stop and a great cooling will occur. However, an epidemic of DSBU will ensue and we will all kill each other. Why just the other day, Rooster was attacked by a bull suffering from DSBU and he had to beat him off with a stick.  It has more to do with the oceans releasing CO2 and less to do with our pal al. It's when things stop changing that we will have to worry.....

8 I think people will get to the root of this issue when/if someone digs into the newly created market in carbon credit trading.  My gut instinct is that this entire "crisis" is being created some some can make a bloody fortune in carbon credits trading.  And the sad thing is that by the time we come around to learning that temperatures are cooling again and it was all just natural variation, the "smart" money will be out of the market and the latecomers will be left holding the bag.  It is indeed a swindle and I would really like to see someone really dig into that carbon credit trading market.

9 My gut instinct is that this entire "crisis" is being created some some can make a bloody fortune in carbon credits trading.

Really? What an amazing coincidence! Algore has carbon credits for sale in a new company that he happens to chair!

Funny, that!

10 I would be interested to know if the team of climatologists who produce the majority of the AGW papers are also in that market.

11 Present day global warming isn't caused by man any more than climate chage has EVER been caused by man throughout this planet's history.  Man produces a teensy weensy fraction of the Earth's co2, and besides co2 follows temperature change, not the other way around.

12 Bullshit! Bullshit! and more Bullshit! No one really knows. One day the left decided the sky was falling, er the world was warming, so the right must prove them wrong. What a waste of time. THERE'S A WAR GOING ON.

13 oh shit!! Thanks for reminding me Rooster, I've got gulls on the grill....

14 I said about all I feel like about Gore, and climate.  On the other hand I see that GW Bush is so far down the black hole of politics, that it is ruining him. He is losing his better qualities in an effort to appease. This will not work against his foes, and only loses him friends. Mourn for GWB the fighter, for he appears to be on his death-bed. The MSM has flogged him with lies and half truths for so long, that he is nearing exhaustion.              USA, all the way!

15 Even great leaders get tired Professor, I do know for a fact that he does appreciate being told what a good job he has done and how much people appreciate his leadership. But don't count our man out, just pray that they don't choose to remember him like they did Lincoln. History will be the judge and I think it will see him as the finest at our worst time. You're an articulate fellow, tell him what you think. He doesn't always respond but given what your message will be, he won't need to.

16 I still think he's going to do something big before leaving office. Right now our two biggest carrier groups and headed toward the middle east. We've been in Iraq 5 years and suddenly we decided to send the big guns over? George knows what it takes to be #1 again.  What was his approval rating a week after we went into Iraq and kicked butt. 92%. I do believe he needs some new blood around him. But man the dude is loyal.

17 Yes, George Bush actually exceeded my expectations. If by his own actions, he had not raised my expectations so high, I'd be pretty happy with him right now. He is still doing a man's job, and we do need to respect his efforts.             USA, all the way!

18

The theory of AGW predicts a few things that we have seen or should be seeing.  Some of these predictions (as I understand it) are as follows:

1)      The warming should be spread over the globe, but with slightly greater rise at low and mid latitudes than at high latitudes.

2)      Highest warming should occur, not at the surface, but at 2-3 kilometers above the surface (I’ve even heard that it is greatest at 10km, but I’m not sure if that is correct)

3)      Most of the temperature rise will come from positive feedback mechanisms which will kick-in by the smaller push from increased CO2.

4)      The plot of the average temperature vs. CO2 concentration should track each other, except for the amplifications from the positive feedback.

What we are actually seeing is the following:

A)    The Antarctic has been getting colder over the last decade.

B)     Highest warming has occurred at the surface

C)    CO2 concentrations increased appreciably from 1940 through 1975 yet the average temperatures fell over this period.

D)    The plot of the average temperature vs. solar activity track each other with good uniformity.

E)     Adjustments for urban heat island effect have not been properly considered in some cases.

F)     Ice core data (Mr. Gore’s graph on his “documentary”) shows CO2 increases generally lag behind increases in temperature by roughly 600 years.  Some of the increased CO2 in the atmosphere we are seeing now is likely from the medieval warming period.

NASA data indicates atmospheres of both Mars and Venus have warmed slightly over the same period.

19

My conclusion (for whatever it’s worth) is that the majority of the increased temperature since the mid 1970’s is from a combination of increased solar activity and increased urban encroachment into formerly rural areas.  Do I “deny” an increase from the greenhouse effect?  No, I do not.  My best guess from the data I’ve seen is that 0.1-0.3C of the increase is from CO2, and that is starting in the mid 1800’s.  There is no evidence that any catastrophic feedback mechanism really exists.  There is some evidence that slightly warmer temperatures would be beneficial to man (such as increased crop yields).

 

Having said all that, do I think it is a good idea to continue burning hydrocarbons (especially petroleum) for fuel?  No.  We really do need to look into increased efficiency nuclear plants, especially low-waste type plants.  Oil should really be saved for making plastic and petrochemical products, but I don’t recommend ANY multinational groupthink panel to regulate its use.

20 Of course the human-blamer's heads explode when they try to rationalize this:

Mars Emerging from Ice Age Due to Global Warming:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice-age_031208.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=global+warming+Mars&btnG=Google+Search
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

Global Warming on Pluto Puzzles Scientists:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/pluto_warming_021009.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=global+warming+Pluto&btnG=Search

Global Warming on Jupiter:
http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/05/global-warming-on-jupiter.html

Wow.... didn't know my SUVs exhaust is THAT powerful....

21 The ice is melting
SUV underwater
Soon your home will be
 

22 If global warming could be classfield as a weapon of mass distruction then odds are bush is going to be wrong.

1 Delete police struck again.

2 And no rediclous lawsuits from the eco-freak clubs again