The Iraqi Ministry of the Interior announced that it has captured the Baghdad sniper known as Ali Nazar al Jubori. The name sounds eerily familiar. al Jubori....could this be the original Juba sniper? That is the claim being made.
Let me remind my readers that the "Juba the Baghdad sniper" does not exist--at least, not in the heroic sense that the jihadi crowd has painted him as. He's a myth. A piece of fictional propaganda produced by terrorists. A heroic superman for the al Qaeda supporters of the world.
This is not to say that there never was an al Qaeda linked sniper in Iraq who got the nickname "Juba", only that the popular videos showing "his" work are really compilations of not only different snipers, but also of different terror organizations. We know this because the "Juba top 10 video" shows previously released material from several different known terror groups and that at least one of the snipers who's work is shown in the video was later arrested.
But like many heroes, there may actually be a man behind the myth. Al Jubori may actually be the original "Juba Baghdad Sniper" as the Iraqis are claiming. In fact, a recent video proported to show the real "Juba" and included interviews with the Baghdad sniper.
The sniper cell he is said to have trained, also called the "Juba snipers", was also broken up and many of them arrested. Again, that is what the Iraqis are saying. We'll see.
If it is "Juba", then this is an important moral victory for the US and anti-terrorist forces in Iraq. Juba is a real hero to many in the Salafi terrror supporting community.
Expect updates.
1
Sounds similar to the story behind "Enemy at the Gates" where there was a sniper/propagandist team; the sniper killed a couple, the propagandist reported hundreds.
Posted by: Anon at November 30, 2006 11:34 AM (Vnico)
Posted by: Mike at November 30, 2006 11:52 AM (yITg4)
3
Here's hoping they put several bacon-wrapped 7.62 rounds in his sorry ass...
Posted by: TXCrawDaddy at November 30, 2006 11:58 AM (5RJ3T)
4
Bohica- media conundrum: strip him nude, collar and leash him, and make him hold a sign that says "I'm the baghdad sniper, I shot Americans."
Posted by: Dirty at November 30, 2006 12:24 PM (+9K2s)
5
Still waiting for CNN to post this story. Not holding my breath. They were hot to post this guys snuff videos, but this isn't a newsmaker?
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at November 30, 2006 12:33 PM (oC8nQ)
6
rusty are you really so upset about some geeks putting a juba blog on google?
do you really think that should be a crime? is there any good reason for such draconian curtailments of freedom of expression?
(other than your desire to stroke your own ego by becoming a "crime fighter" or legitimize your role as a "hero" by sacking blogs you hope to make illegal?)
the juba blog isnt any different from your site in its purpose.
Posted by: salaam-alaikum at November 30, 2006 01:05 PM (vYqjj)
7
Interesting.
The jubaonline site was last online "today" (30 Nov 2006) according to netcraft. I really doubt that jubaonline and the IAI sites were taken down "voluntarily" by IX Webhosting, I'd guess the .gov had a part in it but that's just a guess.
The Al-boraq Media (parent of IAI site) website is still up but they havent updated the links to the (soon to be) new Juba site yet.
On a side, I'm glad they caught "a" sniper Iraq but it's as Rusty said the individual juba is just propaganda.
Posted by: blackflag at November 30, 2006 01:06 PM (Mq5jS)
8
"the juba blog isnt any different from your site in its purpose." - Posted by: salaam-alaikum at November 30, 2006 01:05 PM
Let's see:
Rusty's web site promotes the position of a law abiding group of citizens under attack from terrorist organizations.
The Juba site promotes and/or abets these same criminal terrorist organizations that are attacking the people Rusty supports.
Can anyone besides salaam-alaikum not see the difference between these two?
{sigh}
Posted by: Lawrence at November 30, 2006 01:25 PM (cFi+z)
9
salaam-alaikum: the purpose of The Jawa Report is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America by exposing the perfidy of our enemies, both foreign and domestic. The purpose of the juba site is to enable oppression via a worldwide Caliphate through the selective use of propaganda and created stories.
To put it in terms even you can understand, you are a pig-fucking jihadi.
Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at November 30, 2006 01:25 PM (vBK4C)
10
"the juba blog isnt any different from your site in its purpose." - Posted by: salaam-alaikum at November 30, 2006 01:05 PM
Let's see:
Rusty's web site promotes the position of a law abiding group of citizens under attack from terrorist organizations.
The Juba site promotes and/or abets these same criminal terrorist organizations that are attacking the people Rusty supports.
Can anyone besides salaam-alaikum not see the difference between these two?
{sigh}
Posted by: Lawrence at November 30, 2006 01:26 PM (cFi+z)
11
Oops, Please delete any double posts.
Posted by: Lawrence at November 30, 2006 01:28 PM (cFi+z)
12
Rusty,
Just a few weeks ago you claimed Juba was either dead or did not exist.
Get your story straight.
Posted by: Greg at November 30, 2006 02:00 PM (19GwZ)
13
Good news that a possile inspiration for the Juba myth has been captured.
I can see how this myth would catch on. After you get a few vids, you pick a name and promote it, making him a hero.
As for YOU salaam-alaikum, I believe we can see a typical effort towards misdirection. SALAAM, you do not provide moral substance to your argument. The only way that a 'Juba" site would be equivalant to the Jawa Report, is if you have an Anti-American point of view.
By that I mean you would have to already be in sympathy with America's enemies, and/or you feel that America must fight with one hand tied behind it's back, because that is somehow 'fair' to the bad guys. These snipers are the bad guys. They are America's enemies. Promoting them as heroic is enemy proganda. Is that what you are defending?
Either way, if you defend America's enemies, then you are not with us. You should know what that means ....
USA all the way!
Posted by: Michael Weaver at November 30, 2006 02:12 PM (2OHpj)
14
once again greg steps up and eliminates any doubt that he is a moron.
a moron pretending to be from Texas.
Posted by: Fargo Levy at November 30, 2006 02:30 PM (PM8kH)
15
Awesome. The real war in these times of paper tigers and brave-on-video jihadis is fought largely in the propoganda sphere, and we've won one today.
Posted by: InRussetShadows at November 30, 2006 02:36 PM (TQ4G6)
16
Hey, Greg? In case you hadn't noticed, that's what Rusty is trying to do...get the story straight. It's called "making corrections," and most newspapers of the make-it-up media have a small section devoted specifically to that purpose.
The difference is that they bury theirs on page B14. Rusty's is at the top of the fold where everybody can see it, you smarmy S.O.B.
Posted by: Sloan at November 30, 2006 03:04 PM (0MpC8)
17
salaam-alaikum is in Colorado.................
Posted by: Rusty at November 30, 2006 03:39 PM (JQjhA)
18
salaam alaikum,
The fact that you cannot differentiate evil Takfiri/Ba'athist/Jihadist philosophies from websites that merely promote non-crazy viewpoints is just too bad.
Of course, if Google also permits Neo-Nazi and revolutionary Communist websites, one could argue that they are being consistant in permitting murderous jihadi websites as well.
EXCEPT that Google is an AMERICAN-based company that is sharing in the protection of the soldiers being killed in the "Juba" videos. And THAT is revolting ingratitude.
Posted by: CMAR II at November 30, 2006 04:00 PM (DnvVJ)
19
Not really surprising Rusty. The grasp of English is a bit better than you would expect from say... a Saudi national who overstayed it's education Visa. My guess is either a Muslim convert or just a hip-and-trendy "progressive" (Jew hating swine). It's funny that salaam doesnt realize that "freedom of expression", like "freedom of speech", isn't guaranteed to non-citizens by the U.S Constitution, especially if the subject happens to be a sworn enemy of the United States.
But, that sort of logic would be too difficult I suppose.
Posted by: blackflag at November 30, 2006 04:21 PM (Mq5jS)
20
hey greg - how is that 9/11 book coming...?
"soon you will know my true identity"
too funny!!!
Posted by: Clayton Matchee at November 30, 2006 04:31 PM (PM8kH)
21
salaam the moon god worshipper, I am looking for your kind every Marine Corp day.
BTW, your a POS.
Posted by: Leatherneck at November 30, 2006 04:53 PM (D2g/j)
22
"Sounds similar to the story behind "Enemy at the Gates" where there was a sniper/propagandist team; the sniper killed a couple, the propagandist reported hundreds."
Uh Vasili Zaitsev (who was a real sniper in the Second World War) really did score hundreds of kills (400 confirmed, but some say it's around 300).
Might wanna brush up on your World War II history.
Posted by: Shawn at November 30, 2006 04:54 PM (Yoj9I)
23
"The point is, that as soon as the first plane strayed, it should have been intercepted. "
Since I deal with 9/11 conspiracy theorists on a regular basis, I'm well-read on this subject.
First question: how many intercepts were there in the decade prior to 9/11? One.
They don't even scramble jets everytime a plane strays off course, and even if they did the transponders were turned off and it'd be nearly impossible to locate the target in a field of blips.
Posted by: Shawn at November 30, 2006 04:56 PM (Yoj9I)
24
"And yet we are told that the admin didn't realize an attack was under way until the second strike."
Most of us thought the first plane hitting the towers was an accident. It wasn't clearly an attack until a second plane came streaking in live on TV.
I really hope you aren't writing a book on 9/11 because you clearly aren't cogent enough in the subject.
Posted by: Shawn at November 30, 2006 04:58 PM (Yoj9I)
25
Actually it's a chapter. I pulled it from a book when I found out the editor was publishing in a socialist rag.
Here is a snippet from the chapter...
The following claim was made by National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, "I don't think anybody could have predicted that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile." –, 5/16/02.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/18/attack/main509488.shtml
President Bush made a similar claim, “Never in anybody’s thought process ... about how to protect America did we ever think the evil doers would fly not one but four commercial aircraft into precious US targets ... never.†9/15/2001
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/july-dec01/prepare_9-16.html
White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said that “the President did not – not – receive information about the use of airplanes as missiles by suicide bombers ... Until this attack took place, I think it’s fair to say that no one envisioned that as a possibility.†5/16/02
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/16/attack/main509294.shtml
In fact, there were many other instances of reports that terrorists were planning to use airliners as missiles. Here are just a few:
1993 – Pentagon expert postulates that airplane could be used as a missile to bomb national landmarks. Idea is not published in the “Terror 2000" report.
January 1995 – Philippines disrupts Operation Bojinka to explode 11 or 12 passenger planes over the Pacific Ocean and to crash 12 others into prominent US buildings. Philippines warns US of targets for attack, including CIA headquarters, Pentagon, nuclear power plant, TransAmerica Tower (San Francisco), Sears Tower, and World Trade Center. Plotter Abdul Hakim Murad is handed over to FBI in April 1995 and he identifies 10 other men in flight training who were involved.
April 1995 – Senator Sam Nunn outlines an attack on US Capitol using radio-controlled airplane (idea taken from Tom Clancey’s book, “Debt of Honorâ€).
January 1996 – US intelligence receives information of a planned suicide attack on the White House by a plane flying from Afghanistan.
July - August 1996 – US officials identify crop dusters and suicide flights as threats to the Atlanta Olympics. They ban planes from getting too close to events, deploy Black Hawk helicopters and US Customs jets to intercept suspicious aircraft, monitor crop-duster flights near downtown, place armed fighter jets on standby at local air bases, screen passengers to Atlanta more carefully, and send law enforcement agents to regional airports to make sure nobody hijacked a small airplane (these become known as the “Atlanta Rulesâ€).
October 1996 – US intelligence learns of an Iranian plot to hijack a Japanese plane over Israel and to crash it into Tel Aviv.
1997 – FBI and CIA have concerns that unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) will be used to attack a US embassy or delegates overseas.
January 1997 – Atlanta Rules used to protect against airplane attack for Clinton inauguration.
1998 – FBI’s international terrorism squad investigates possible Middle Eastern man taking flight lessons at Phoenix airport. FBI agent Ken Williams starts an investigation into possibility of terrorist learning to fly.
August 1998 – CIA asserts Arab terrorists plan to fly a bomb-laden plane from a foreign country to the World Trade Center ... FBI and FAA do not think state of aviation in unstated country makes the attack possible.
Fall 1998 – US intelligence learns of a plot to attack New York and Washington DC with airplanes ... learns that plans to attack are preceding well and 2 individuals have successfully evaded checkpoints at a New York airport.
1998-1999 – FBI issues warnings of possible terrorists training at US flight schools.
1999 – US intelligence learns that al Qaeda agent studied at flight school in Norman, Oklahoma (hijackers Mohammed Atta and Marwan Alshehhi visited school in 2000 and Zacarias Moussaoui trained there in 2001)
1999 – Britain’s M16 domestic intelligence agency reports to US that al Qaeda plans to use commercial aircraft in unconventional ways possibly as flying bombs.
1999 – FBI learns that terrorists are planning to send students to US for flight training. FBI’s Counterterrorism Section issues a notice to 24 field offices to pay close attention to Islamic students from the target country engaged in training. Ken Williams’ squad receives this memo too.
September 1999 – US intelligence suggests “Suicide bomber(s) belonging to al Qaeda’s Martyrdom Battalion could crash-land aircraft packed with high explosives ... into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or the White House...â€. Report is made by the National Intelligence Council which advises President and US intelligence on emerging threats.
1999 – Atlanta Rules used to protect against airplane attack for North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s 50th Anniversary in DC.
April 2000 – Niaz Khan, British citizen from Pakistan, tells FBI of plot to fly airliners into building. He was trained on mock cockpit of 767, including how to hijack a plane and how to smuggle guns and other weapons on board. He flew to US and was told to meet with a contact to then meet up with others to fly a plane into a building. He passes polygraph given by FBI but he is deported to London.
August 2000 – Italian intelligence wiretaps al Qaeda cell in Milan, Italy and overhears plan to attack enemies of Islam with aircraft. Warning is sent to US in March 2001.
October 2000 – Pentagon conducts an emergency drill for a crashed airline that had been hijacked and flown into Pentagon.
September 2000 - September 2001 – NORAD conducts regional war games exercises simulating hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets; one target is World Trade Center. In another exercise, jets conduct a mock shoot down of airliners over Atlantic Ocean. In another, the Pentagon is the target (but this one was called off). Exercises are called Vigilant Guardian and Northern Vigilance, and another is being held at the National Reconnaissance Office which included an airplane being used as a flying weapon.
January - August 2001 – FAA issues 15 warnings to airliners ... Bush officials claim information is so vague it does not warrant additional security ... but the warnings remain classified today.
March 2001 – Fox’s show “The Lone Gunmen†depicts an attack by terrorists against the World Trade Center using a hijacked 727.
April 2001 – FBI translators Sibel Edmonds and Behrooz Sarshar learn of a warning given to FBI by an FBI informant that al Qaeda is planning to attack US and Europe with airplanes and that al Qaeda agents are being trained in US as pilots. Edmonds says: “President Bush said they had no specific information about September 11, and that’s accurate. However, there was specific information about use of airplanes, that an attack was on the way two or three months beforehand, and that several people were already in the country by May of 2001." Says US claims about not knowing of 9/11 plan were outrageous lies ..."That's an outrageous lie and documents can prove it's a lie."
May 2001 – Pentagon practices for crashed 757 into Pentagon.
June 2001 – German intelligence warns CIA, M16, and Mossad that middle eastern terrorists are planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack “American and Israeli symbols, which stand out.â€
June 2001 – Counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke gives direct warning to FAA to increase security measures in light of impending terrorist attack and FAA refuses to implement them.
July 2001 – Attorney General John Ashcroft stops flying commercial aircraft due to unknown threat assessment.
July 2001 – FBI agent Ken Williams sends a message warning of suspicious activities involving group of middle eastern men taking flight training lessons in Arizona: subtitle of memo is “Osama bin Laden and Al-Muhrjiroun supporters attending civil aviation universities/colleges in Arizona.â€
July 2001 – US intelligence reports spike in warnings against July G-8 summit in Genoa, Italy. Head of Russia’s Bodyguard Service reports that al Qaeda will try to kill President Bush ... Egyptian intelligence discovers communication from UBL saying he would assassinate Bush and other leaders during G-8 summit using an “airplane stuffed with explosives†... US and Italy are sent urgent warnings ... Germany sends warning of UBL paying German neo-Nazis to fly remote-controlled aircraft packed with explosives into conference hall ... Bush and other leaders stay on aircraft carrier and luxury ship away from area.
July 2001 – Egyptian intelligence passes on message to CIA that 20 al Qaeda members had slipped into US and that 4 of them were training on Cessnas.
August 2001 – Britain warns US of al Qaeda attack involving multiple airline highjackings.
August 2001 – Russian President Vladimir Putin warns US that suicide pilots are training for attacks on US.
August 2001 – US intelligence learns of plot to crash airplane into US Embassy in Nairobi.
August 2001 – Actor James Woods relays concerns of four Arabic-looking men who look suspicious in first class aboard his flight ... flight staff notifies FAA ... Woods is not interviewed by FBI until after 9/11 ... all four are believed to have been involved on 9/11.
August 2001 – the “bin Laden Determined to Strike In US†memo is given to President Bush ... it reads in part: “bin Laden wanted to hijack US aircraft to gain the release†of Oman Abdul Rahman and others and tells of “suspicious activity in the US consistent with preparations for highjackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.â€
August 2001 – Zacarias Moussaoui is arrested in Minneapolis... he paid $8,300 for flight training, mostly in cash, to use a 747 aircraft simulator. He asked “how much fuel is on board a 747 and how much damage could it cause if it hit anythingâ€? He has no aviation background, little previous training, and no pilot’s license, he wants to fly only as an ego-boosting thing, he is extremely interested in the operation of the plane’s doors and control panel, and wants to know how to communicate with flight tower. He is evasive and belligerent when asked about his background. He mostly practices flying in the air rather than taking off or landing. The flight school sends information to FBI and receives little interest, so it contacts them again as says: “Do you realize how serious this is? This man wants training on a 747. A 747 fully loaded with fuel could be used as a weapon.â€
August 2, 2001 – FBI headquarters Radical Fundamentalist Unit agent calls FBI Minneapolis office supervisor that he is getting people “spun up†over Zacarias Moussaoui. The supervisor says he is trying to get people at FBI headquarters “spun up†because he is trying to make sure Moussaoui does “not take control of a plane and fly it into the World Trade Center.â€
August 23-27, 2001 – FBI agents in Minneapolis are convinced Zacarias Moussaoui is planning to do something with a plane. One agent writes he might “fly something into the World Trade Center.†They decide to pursue a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant – in more than 10,000 requests over 20 years, every single warrant has been granted – yet FBI headquarters decides against it for unknown reasons.
August 24, 2001 – Minneapolis FBI agent contacts CIA’s Counter Terrorism Center and calls Moussaoui a “suspect 747 airline attacker†and a “suspect airline suicide attacker.†FBI headquarters chastises the Minneapolis office for contacting headquarters without permission.
September 2001 – Author Salman Rushdie is banned by US from taking internal US flights due to “intelligence of something about to happen.â€
September 2001 – Sydney Olympics officials reveal that, “A fully loaded, fueled airliner crashing into the opening ceremony before a worldwide television audience at the Sydney Olympics is one of the greatest security fears for the Games.†Australia puts 6 planes in the air at all times to intercept wayward aircraft (planning is also underway for the 2002 Winter Olympics in Utah to defend against plane attacks when 9/11 occurs).
September 4, 2001 – FBI headquarters sends message to US intelligence community about the Zacarias Moussaoui investigation. Warning is given to the FAA but the FAA does not issue a security alert to the nation’s airports.
September 9-11, 2001 – NORAD runs Operation Northern Vigilance which deploys fighters to Alaska and Northern Canada to monitor Russian air force exercise in Russian arctic. US fighters are thus diverted from US. Exercise is cancelled at 9 am on 9/11.
September 10, 2001 – Eight hours prior to the attacks, San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown receives warning from his security people at the airport to be cautious when traveling ... he is headed for New York
September 10, 2001 – President Bush is staying at the Colony Beach and Tennis Resort on Longboat Key, FL. Surface to air missiles are placed on roof of the resort.
September 2001 – Pentagon officials, including US generals, are warned not to fly and canceled trips for morning of September 11.
Posted by: Greg at November 30, 2006 05:07 PM (v7DMp)
26
The point is, that as soon as the first plane strayed, it should have been intercepted. When the first tower was hit, it would have been prudent to assume that there had been an attack. And yet we are told that the admin didn't realize an attack was under way until the second strike.
Right!
Posted by: Greg at November 30, 2006 05:12 PM (v7DMp)
27
Salaam Alaikum: You stink like your goathead mama.
Posted by: Greyrooster at November 30, 2006 05:31 PM (0TutP)
28
No Greg. The point is real men don't cut and paste.
Posted by: Greyrooster at November 30, 2006 05:32 PM (0TutP)
29
Ah, such a target rich environment. Where to start?
Well, first of all Greg, can you post one shred of evidence for your assertion that
"September 2001 – Pentagon officials, including US generals, are warned not to fly and canceled trips for morning of September 11."
Just one shred and not from one of your looney-ass moronic loose change websites? I don't think so. Also, you really think the Republican government would warn Willie Brown of any impending disaster that might save his life? Highly unlikely, to say the least.
The think I just can't get enough of with these morons is the concept that explosives were placed in the World Trade Center. Let's see, it takes thousands of man-hours to rig a 30 story building for demolition and that does not include the obvious pre-cutting of structural members to make sure the building falls down correctly. Now I'm supposed to believe that numerous personnel placed several hundred or thousand pounds of explosives in the World Trade Centers (that's both of them) under the noses of everyone who worked there, except the Jews of course who didn't show up to work that day. Not a sole has reported that say, 5 floors were shut down for a month on each building to allow for the placement of those explosives.
As if that wasn't plausible enough, now we're to believe that someone was able to fly two airplanes exactly into the spot where the explosives were to make the illusion believable. On top of that, I'm supposed to believe that these explosives didn't go off out of sequence despite the fact that thousands of gallons of burning jet fuel poured down on them and burned at something over a thousand degrees. There was so much jet fuel that elevator doors 75 stories below were blowing open full of flames. Furthermore, all that destruction and I'm supposed to believe that none of the demolition wiring was damaged or destroyed by the impact of the planes, the falling debris and the jet fuel. All that and they still managed to go off in perfect sequence just as planned?
As you ponder the above, think about who frightening that someone as fucking stupid as Greg may be driving your bus or taxi, preparing your food, teaching your kids or God forbid doing your taxes. Scary, isn't it?
Posted by: Jack Burton at November 30, 2006 06:12 PM (5m29+)
30
Hell, Yeah!!!!!! ,If this is what happens when I take a day off perhaps I should do that more often!
Posted by: Howie at November 30, 2006 06:13 PM (YdcZ0)
31
Jack,
Perhaps you could explain the pools of molten iron that were found weeks after 9-11, below WTC1, 2 and 7. What was the source of fuel that melted steel? Certainly not kerosene (jet fuel).
Check out Steven Jones work.
Posted by: Greg at November 30, 2006 07:42 PM (19GwZ)
32
You do recall that WTC7 came down too? A building not exposed to jet feul, which incidently burnt off for the most part within seconds of impact, especially the second hit which was not well aligned at impact.
Posted by: Greg at November 30, 2006 07:47 PM (19GwZ)
33
It takes a special kind of stupidity to believe what Greg believes. Yes
Greg...every politician in American reads the million plus pages of
various intell reports every time they are elected. He should of known
after reading it all. And the federal employees who work in government
all their life who see politicians come and go...all of those employees
on the left, middle and right all got together and said....Hell
yeah...count me in on the conspiracy. Or maybe it was Bigfoot Greg.
My fucking cats are smarter than you and they lick their ass for fun.
Posted by: Randman at November 30, 2006 08:03 PM (Sal3J)
34
You think yourselves brave men. That you mean something and will stand up for it. When you run up against something so big it dwarfs you, you save face and refuse to look the devil in the eye.
You think you're brave, but you're a coward.
Posted by: Greg at November 30, 2006 08:05 PM (19GwZ)
35
Shawn: I didn't say he was non-existant... 400 is not thousands.
Posted by: Anon at November 30, 2006 08:10 PM (ajFCK)
36
Greg,
Seriously, are you really this fucking stupid or do you like pushing buttons. Let's see dummy, a pile of wreckage burns for weeks and you are suprised that steel melted. We all know the morons from your side figured out steel won't actually melt from jet fuel, but it sure bends. And if you knew anything about structures, which you don't and I do, you'd know that buildings are based on rigid structures that don't bend. There is always a certain amount of deflection, but deflect occurs without the frame losing it's strenght. When steel heats up and bends, it loses it's strength drastically.
As for melted steel, that can happen in a pile of buring wreckage that's allowed to burn for weeks.
And jet fuel that burned off in seconds, according to someone as apparently as smart as a soapdish. What do you think the people of Hiroshima thought about the bomb? I mean, it burned off in a few seconds, didn't it. I mean, how can something that only burned for a few seconds have killed 15,000 people in two seconds.
And finally about WTC7, a million ton structure crashes to the ground with debris being ejected in all directions. Wouldn't you say it's possible that this impacted on the central columns of WTC7 and damaged it enough to fall. Of course you don't believe it, but most organisms with a structure level higher than an amoeba realize that's what happened.
Seriously, what's with the conspiracy people? There's not a single thing that's ever been factually presented that hasn't been explained by science, physics and properties of buildings but you insist on continuing this idiotic adventure. Is it some kind of exclusive club that makes you feel special. Maybe makes you feel important but the sad truth is that your so insignificant and so fucking stupid that nobody actually cares what you think.
Posted by: Jack Burton at November 30, 2006 08:16 PM (5m29+)
37
Forget about deformed steel, I'm talking about molten pools of steel, 1370 degrees C (2500°F), 4 weeks later. What was in WTC7 that could burn that hot?
Does your cooking pot melt when you fix dinner?
Posted by: Greg at November 30, 2006 09:35 PM (19GwZ)
38
Oh, Nooo, Greg.
YOU are the Brave, Brave MAN here. We are all a bunch of snivelling cowards hiding behind our keyboards, but YOU are the HERO here.
Just keep telling that to the mirror.
The devil you need to be looking in the eye is your own perception of reality. Get help. Seriously.
Posted by: TxMarko at November 30, 2006 09:40 PM (P7QkF)
39
Uh, Mr. Conspiracy theorist, the towers didn't fall until about an hour after the hits. Leaving aside the absolutely ludicrous notion that demolition explosives strong enough and distributed well enough to bring both buildings down without anyone noticing them being planted, wiring most of the building (but not all of them; the top floors didn't collapse or explode, they came down intact until they hit the ground)... how do you (a) hit the exact right spot, twice, on featureless obelisks, and (b) have the jet fuel burn for an hour without setting off the explosives?
Or is it that the planes DAMAGED the explosive wiring and it took an HOUR to repair it and then demolish the buildings? Yeah! Volunteers musta gone UP while everyone else was going down, passing the firefighters, into the burning fuel, and fixed the wires!
Frankly, I'm impressed that an administration so inept that it can't plant WMDs in Iraq (a mostly-empty country the size of California), and can't keep its secret programs off the front page of the New York Times, could pull this incredibly massive and intricate deception off without a trace or a witness. Bush rocks!
Posted by: Zumkopf at November 30, 2006 11:14 PM (gCHCf)
40
Uh, Mr. Conspiracy theorist, the towers didn't fall until about an hour after the hits. Leaving aside the absolutely ludicrous notion that demolition explosives strong enough and distributed well enough to bring both buildings down without anyone noticing them being planted, wiring most of the building (but not all of them; the top floors didn't collapse or explode, they came down intact until they hit the ground)... how do you (a) hit the exact right spot, twice, on featureless obelisks, and (b) have the jet fuel burn for an hour without setting off the explosives?
Or is it that the planes DAMAGED the explosive wiring and it took an HOUR to repair it and then demolish the buildings? Yeah! Volunteers musta gone UP while everyone else was going down, passing the firefighters, into the burning fuel, and fixed the wires!
Frankly, I'm impressed that an administration so inept that it can't plant WMDs in Iraq (a mostly-empty country the size of California), and can't keep its secret programs off the front page of the New York Times, could pull this incredibly massive and intricate deception off without a trace or a witness. Bush rocks!
Posted by: Zumkopf at November 30, 2006 11:14 PM (gCHCf)
41
What the hell are you even talking about?
Posted by: Xanthippas at November 30, 2006 11:19 PM (tuFbw)
42
"Check out Steven Jones work"
What work?
Isn't he Jim Fetzer's butt buddy?
Steven Jones
James Fetzer
Lauro Chavez
Judy "space laser" Wood
Where the fuck do you guys finds these losers???
Posted by: Clayton Matchee at November 30, 2006 11:34 PM (PM8kH)
Posted by: God at December 01, 2006 06:07 AM (v71ET)
44
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
Where did the molten steel come from?
Posted by: Greg at December 01, 2006 09:59 AM (19GwZ)
Posted by: Greg at December 01, 2006 01:04 PM (19GwZ)
46
keep flinging your poo greg...
dance monkey dance...
lauro chavez is looking for a new job - perhaps he could clean your cage?
Posted by: Max Power at December 01, 2006 02:40 PM (R4293)
47
You lose. Thanks for playing.
Posted by: Greg at December 01, 2006 03:30 PM (Vt4qK)
Posted by: Max Power at December 01, 2006 11:22 PM (PM8kH)
49
No one really pays much attention to Greg. Personally, I think he's funny and adds to the blog. Reminds me of who and what we are dealing with. He's also a vent for frustrations. Greg is good for the ego. When you call him a sick shit you know in your heart you're right.
Gregie: Do you know how a smelter melts steel? Do you know the heat source? The fuels used. Air and fuel Gregie. That's how steel is made.
Posted by: Greyrooster at December 01, 2006 11:26 PM (BMcPj)
50
Rooster,
Your ignorance is amazing. Name one source of fuel in those buildings that burns at 1350 C or 2500 F.
Posted by: Greg at December 02, 2006 07:33 AM (19GwZ)
51
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
Where did the molten steel come from?
Greg, this is a perfect example of why imbeciles and morons shouldnt be allowed to post on the internet. Here is a clue for someone to stupid to know what to do with a clue. Go take a real good look at how a blast furnace works and then go look at the WTC again. You would have to be a complete and utter imbecile to not be able to see the obvious answer to your ignorant and imbecilic question.
Posted by: Stephen at December 02, 2006 12:33 PM (kxlLm)
52
Maybe i can help. WTC7 had a Lucent 5ESS Switch on one of the floors. The switch is powered with a DC Power Plant. That power plant is fed with power company AC. When the AC fails, huge jet engine turbines kick on to keep the DC power going. Those turbines are fed from huge amounts of jet fuel stored in tanks under WTC7.
Posted by: Jim A at December 02, 2006 01:43 PM (+Sk+p)
53
Stephen Simpleton,
The hot air blast furnace burns COKE, which maintains the very high temperatures that are needed to reduce ore to iron.
This wasn't a blast furnace, it did not have coke as fuel!
Try again, what was the fuel source that burned at 1350C or 2500F?
One can't argue that 900C melts steel, even if you let it "simmer" for a year.
Posted by: Greg at December 02, 2006 02:06 PM (19GwZ)
54
Also, there was no evidence of the amount of turbulence required in a blast furnace. What we see is smoke from smoldering hydrocarbons emerging from the buildings, not gas jets.
Posted by: Greg at December 02, 2006 02:41 PM (19GwZ)
55
To Greg the retard.
Coke burns at approx. 540c while jet fuel burns at approx. 1000c. Neither burn at the 1500c required to melt steel. However, what retards like you fail to grasp is the nature of the construction of a blast furnace, which coincidently the WTC mimicked with near perfection.
Blast furnaces put their fuel at the top and cold air is sucked in through the bottom. The process is known as convection, the evidence of that convection can be seen in the pictures of the towers burning, the amount of smoke which I might add could be seen from orbit.
Now I am fully aware that a number of conspiracy nut jobs like you believe that the dark black color of those clouds indicate that the fire was oxygen starved. Like your other imbecilic theories, this is wrong, all the dark black clouds indicate is the high percentage of polycarbonates that were also burning in the fire.
A highly oxygenated convection draft driven fire easily achieves the 1500c required to melt steel.
Posted by: Stephen at December 02, 2006 04:39 PM (kxlLm)
56
Stephen,
Not even NIST, FEMA or the 9-11 Commission Report invoke your cockamamey theory.
They were puzzled by the sulfidation of the molten steel, throwing their hands up in exasperation. Sulfidation is consistent with Thermate incindiaries.
Posted by: Greg at December 02, 2006 07:53 PM (19GwZ)
57
Stephen,
Greg is our resident troll. My advice? Don't feed him. He's a lost cause. Banning hasn't worked.
Why don't you join us on the main page?
www.mypetjawa.mu.nu
Posted by: Rusty at December 02, 2006 08:14 PM (JQjhA)
58
Stephen,
Why don't you and Rusty take a steam. Enjoy a little convection. Perhaps he'll play wood instruments for you.
Posted by: Greg at December 02, 2006 09:52 PM (19GwZ)
59
greg - king of the "cockamamey theory"
how's that judy wood death beam angle going?
Posted by: Max Power at December 02, 2006 10:45 PM (PM8kH)
60
I have personally worked steel at orange-hot heat over a hand-made Celtic reproduction hard wood charcoal forge about the size of a birdbath made from clay fed with goatskin bellows. It pulls like taffy.
Posted by: Celtic Guy at December 04, 2006 12:37 AM (wR5Hb)
61
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Posted by: Braulio at April 30, 2007 05:20 AM (CJslR)
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