January 21, 2006
CAIR Calls for Hostage Release (Sort of)
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) is making a big deal out of the fact that they have sent two representatives to Iraq to work for Jill Carroll's release. Instead of taking the opportunity to show Islam as a humane religion by forcefully rejecting all hostage taking as barbarism, they base their appeal on the fact that Jill Carroll was an antiwar journalist.
Perhaps American hostages Dean Sadek and Jeffrey Ake don't merit CAIR's attention since they were in Iraq working with the U.S. or Iraqi governments.
CAIR press release:
“We, the undersigned representatives of the American Muslim community, call for the immediate and unconditional release of Jill Carroll, a journalist with a well-documented record of objective reporting and respect for both the Iraqi people and Arab-Islamic culture.By "objective" CAIR means that she emphasized the suffering of the Iraqi people under war time conditions--something that would be immediately recognized as an anti-American statement in the Muslim world.
One might say that the conditional attached by CAIR was simply a tactic aimed at winning over the hostage takers. It is possible that CAIR finds all hostage taking barbaric, but chooses only to emphasize Jill Carroll's reporting because that might help win her freedom. But if that is the case, why did CAIR not send any one to Iraq when Jeffrey Ake or Roy Hallums was taken hostage?
“We ask that her captors show mercy and compassion by releasing her so that she may return to her family. Certainly, no cause can be advanced by harming a person who only sought to let the world know about the human suffering caused by the conflict in Iraq.â€The Islamofascist front group CAIR again reveals the shallowness of their devotion to the basic premise that taking hostages is uncivilized. I wonder if CAIR believes that a cause might be advanced had the hostage been some one dedicated to revealing what slimy pieces of filth the Iraqi 'resistance' really is?
If CAIR is the best that American Muslims can do, they are truly hurting for leadership.
Posted by: Rusty at
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1
I'm praying for Jill Carroll. However, Dean Sadek is dead. Nothing has been heard from him for a year. No demands were ever issued. Just a video begging for his life. I'm not sure about Jeffrey Ake. It's been almost a year. He might still be alive but his company has never negotiated with the captors unlike the case with Roy Hallums who was later rescued. Jeffrey's wife tried to sell her house to pay for a very high ransom but the captors stopped calling her last May. I agree with you that since Jill is a very pretty woman and a journalist, the iraqi officials are fighting more for her release than they did with other Americans who were later beheaded.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 21, 2006 04:32 PM (5E0ex)
2
CAIR has long been known for having Muslime terrorist contacts. Several of CAIR's members have in fact been arrested on terrorism charges.
This is clearly a PR ploy used by these goat herders and no one should be fooled. It's time the western human bloggers got together and got this porKoranic oil tick club shut down once and for all.
I'm not buying any of pIslam's conversion or death crap and I sure the hell will never give into the Dhimmicrat liberals protecting this world domination at all costs desert cult.
This is clearly a PR ploy used by these goat herders and no one should be fooled. It's time the western human bloggers got together and got this porKoranic oil tick club shut down once and for all.
I'm not buying any of pIslam's conversion or death crap and I sure the hell will never give into the Dhimmicrat liberals protecting this world domination at all costs desert cult.
Posted by: Pagan Allah at January 21, 2006 04:44 PM (4KFmw)
3
At the beheading video place. (www.LOL@lol.com) I'm sure you're familiar with that website.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 21, 2006 07:20 PM (rUyw4)
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CAIR and groups like it are a clear and present danger to the US. They have no business in the western hemisphere.
Posted by: Richard at January 21, 2006 08:34 PM (W8EsU)
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Wouldn't it be sooo terrible if the CAIR crew ended up kidnapped?
Posted by: Phillep at January 21, 2006 11:23 PM (DllvA)
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i think everyone needs to get off their soapbox and realize that a life is at stake. I am glad CAIR is taking a proactive approach. I think as Americans we've had enough of this "Islamiphobia" because it is honestly getting old. When someone is doing something good they should be commended and CAIR being the only American organization to send a delegation warrants respect, not bigotry.
Posted by: Aaron at January 22, 2006 03:46 AM (vR0eu)
7
Matt Maupin wasn't beheaded. His death was quick and painless. He was shot once in the head and twice in the chest. The video is not on the internet. Matt Maupin's family and the United States Army refuses to believe he is dead but he is. Terrorists have no reason to feed a soldier they declared dead two years ago. It's a shame a good patriot had to die at the hands of monsters. He was a hero. That's the damn truth. I'm in a military family myself. My father served in the Marines and Army for 30 years. He retired last March. Anyway at least Matt wasn't beheaded. A bullet to the head is nothing compared to your head being sawed off.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 22, 2006 09:33 AM (5E0ex)
8
When your criticism becomes ideology, then you are no different than the extremists you revile. CAIR, for all its faults, is making an effort to save and innocent persons life. At the very least, instead of falling back on your own deep seated prejeudice, try and reflect on that. They are actually doing alot more to save Jill Carrolls life than you are.
Posted by: Kazi at January 22, 2006 11:53 AM (5V/0S)
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I agree with Kazi and Aaron. This IS getting old, how many more soldiers have to die for us to understand that this war is not ours to fight. It is truly sad that this young lady was caught in the middle.
Did you ever think the reason why they are emphasizing her "objective" approach to reporting in order to appeal to the people who supposedly have her?
Did you ever think the reason why they are emphasizing her "objective" approach to reporting in order to appeal to the people who supposedly have her?
Posted by: Samantha at January 22, 2006 12:54 PM (RbqXF)
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Yes, yes, let's sing the praises of CAIR, a radical group posing as moderate that seeks to gain a foothold in the US for radical Islam.
I really don't know when you people are going to wake up to what these Islamists intend to do. 3,000 people killed in the WTC seems to be meaningless to you people. I wish to hell all of you CAIR supporters would take the time to look at what the people who formed CAIR have had to say in the past. They have supported Hamas among other terrorist groups. What more proof do you need? And yes, you will get real tired hearing all the Islamophobia before everything is settled, I'm sure.
But it seems strange to me that every time a terrorist attack is perpetuated by these Islamists all we hear from CAIR is protect us from Islamophobia. Did it ever occur to you people to ask why CAIR is not condemning these Islamists? I can tell you why, because CAIR is nothing more than a front group for them. And I don't see them trying to help anyone else in Iraq other than Muslims, so the credibility of CAIR is zero.
I really don't know when you people are going to wake up to what these Islamists intend to do. 3,000 people killed in the WTC seems to be meaningless to you people. I wish to hell all of you CAIR supporters would take the time to look at what the people who formed CAIR have had to say in the past. They have supported Hamas among other terrorist groups. What more proof do you need? And yes, you will get real tired hearing all the Islamophobia before everything is settled, I'm sure.
But it seems strange to me that every time a terrorist attack is perpetuated by these Islamists all we hear from CAIR is protect us from Islamophobia. Did it ever occur to you people to ask why CAIR is not condemning these Islamists? I can tell you why, because CAIR is nothing more than a front group for them. And I don't see them trying to help anyone else in Iraq other than Muslims, so the credibility of CAIR is zero.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 22, 2006 04:28 PM (rUyw4)
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As I said, all reservations about CAIR aside, what they are doing in Iraq is a GOOD thing. Lets try and separate the organization from the act that they just did - they are intervening on behalf of a non-Muslim journalist (who we only know is sympathetic to Iraqis) and advocating for her release. This is a good thing, regardless of CAIRs past dealings. THey are setting a precedent for other Muslims groups to intervene in these incidents. That cannot be a bad thing, to have America Muslims flying over to Iraq to try and save innocent human beings caught in the cross fire.
The fact is that when you attack CAIR even when they do something half way decent, you are essentially saying that there is nothing that the American Muslim community can do to change your perception that they are a bunch of terrorists and that Islam is thet root of all evil.
Which means you are not really interested in making the situation better, you are just interested in sticking your head in the sand and singing the same stupid song to yourself because your imagination is too limited to conceive of a Muslim doing something positive.
That sir, lies at the roots of racism.
The fact is that when you attack CAIR even when they do something half way decent, you are essentially saying that there is nothing that the American Muslim community can do to change your perception that they are a bunch of terrorists and that Islam is thet root of all evil.
Which means you are not really interested in making the situation better, you are just interested in sticking your head in the sand and singing the same stupid song to yourself because your imagination is too limited to conceive of a Muslim doing something positive.
That sir, lies at the roots of racism.
Posted by: Kazi at January 22, 2006 07:51 PM (/Kfu8)
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You, sir, are wrong. Muslims are not a race. So how in the world can that be racism? I'm anxiously awaiting an answer, sir.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 22, 2006 07:59 PM (rUyw4)
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*crickets*
Posted by: dave at January 22, 2006 08:23 PM (CcXvt)
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As a matter of fact, Kazi, if you use your criteria, then Muslims are racists. Muslims have a derogatory term they use for non-Muslim(kaffirs), claim Islam is surperior to every other religion, and force non-Muslims to live under a set of laws that do not apply to Muslims.
So you tell me who the racist is, Mr. Kazi, sir? I'm still waiting for a response.
So you tell me who the racist is, Mr. Kazi, sir? I'm still waiting for a response.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 22, 2006 08:31 PM (rUyw4)
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CAIR cannot and should not be Trusted for ANYTHING
Posted by: Takinstraight at January 22, 2006 09:01 PM (wZLWV)
Posted by: Takinstraight at January 22, 2006 09:04 PM (wZLWV)
Posted by: Takinstraight at January 22, 2006 09:04 PM (wZLWV)
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Should the KKK be lauded for doing something considered "good"? Hell no. They shouldn't exist as an organization.
Same goes for the "Council on American-Islamic Relations"
Same goes for the "Council on American-Islamic Relations"
Posted by: Takinstraight at January 22, 2006 09:08 PM (wZLWV)
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Jesus what a bunch of leftards that came to crap here. Every goddamn liberal on the planet needs to be bulldozed into a giant hole in the ground and covered up; just imagine the things sane people could accomplish if we didn't have this bunch of idiots running around screwing things up constantly.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 22, 2006 10:57 PM (0yYS2)
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for a HUGE organization like CAIR, you cannot condemn the whole organization for one or two bad apples. I know we are all more responsible than that. and the proof is in the pudding. you need to stop throwing out your venomous rhetoric and get off your Daniel Pipes bandwagon dance. If you truly care for your country, you will embrace Muslims because they are here to stay. I swear the bigotry in this country at this point and time is eerily similar to that during the civil rights struggles of the African Americans and Japanese and we all know no one wants to go down that horrific path. Fyi, statements CAIR as made against the “islamistsâ€
Posted by: aaron at January 23, 2006 12:35 AM (vR0eu)
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for a HUGE organization like CAIR, you cannot condemn the whole organization for one or two bad apples. I know we are all more responsible than that. and the proof is in the pudding. you need to stop throwing out your venomous rhetoric and get off your Daniel Pipes bandwagon dance. If you truly care for your country, you will embrace Muslims because they are here to stay. I swear the bigotry in this country at this point and time is eerily similar to that during the civil rights struggles of the African Americans and Japanese and we all know no one wants to go down that horrific path. Fyi, statements CAIR as made against the “islamistsâ€
http://www.cair.com/html/911statements.html
http://www.cair.com/html/911statements.html
Posted by: aaron at January 23, 2006 12:36 AM (vR0eu)
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Again, you guys are missing the bigger picture. If you think CAIR is a terrorist organization, I seriously have to laugh at that.
Should the KKK members all be deported to .....wherever they came from?
KKK Hide their faces, CAIR is very open and accessible. How many have talked to Muslims before? Have any of you aired your concerns.
You are missing the bigger picture and making this poor girl your scapegoat. Would you have felt better had they done nothing?
Thank God I am not a Bushite.
Should the KKK members all be deported to .....wherever they came from?
KKK Hide their faces, CAIR is very open and accessible. How many have talked to Muslims before? Have any of you aired your concerns.
You are missing the bigger picture and making this poor girl your scapegoat. Would you have felt better had they done nothing?
Thank God I am not a Bushite.
Posted by: Samantha at January 23, 2006 12:37 AM (RbqXF)
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Samantha, et al,
Then tell me why there is growing opposition to CAIR among Muslims here in the good ol' USA? CAIR isn't doing them any favors and they are slowly awakening to that realization.
Go here www.freemuslims.org
If you want to know how they feel about CAIR and their lack of support for ending Islamofascism then read this letter
You don't know what you're talking about. Yes, some of us HAVE "aired our concerns". And the KKK hasn't "hidden their faces" for decades. And how is your point about their deportation relevant? How has anyone made this girl a "scapegoat"?
You're flailing here.
Then tell me why there is growing opposition to CAIR among Muslims here in the good ol' USA? CAIR isn't doing them any favors and they are slowly awakening to that realization.
Go here www.freemuslims.org
If you want to know how they feel about CAIR and their lack of support for ending Islamofascism then read this letter
You don't know what you're talking about. Yes, some of us HAVE "aired our concerns". And the KKK hasn't "hidden their faces" for decades. And how is your point about their deportation relevant? How has anyone made this girl a "scapegoat"?
You're flailing here.
Posted by: Oyster at January 23, 2006 06:54 AM (YudAC)
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Saying Muslims are not a race is crazy Jesusland Joe. That's like saying the Holocaust never happened. Muslims are a race. Therefore you are a racist.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 23, 2006 08:33 AM (5E0ex)
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Muslim is not a race. If a blond-haired, blue-eyed man is a Muslim then what race is he?
Posted by: Oyster at January 23, 2006 08:43 AM (osKlJ)
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George, you need to do some research. Muslims are not a race, they cover the entire spectrum of races, from Causcasians to Africans to Asians. And saying Muslims are not a race is like saying the Holocaust never happened? George, please get a grip on yourself. I know you're a kid, but surely you are more intelligent than this.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 23, 2006 08:43 AM (rUyw4)
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Now back to CAIR. Samantha and other supporters of CAIR should know that CAIR is nothing more than a front group for the Islamists.
Why do you make the assumption that if I am against CAIR I am against Muslims? CAIR does not represent the Muslims I know. All, and I mean all, of them are mistrustful of CAIR and see it for what it is. So don't say I am anti-Muslim just because I criticize CAIR. Muslims and CAIR are not interchangeble, no matter what you say. CAIR is a virus that Muslims should avoid at all costs.
Why do you make the assumption that if I am against CAIR I am against Muslims? CAIR does not represent the Muslims I know. All, and I mean all, of them are mistrustful of CAIR and see it for what it is. So don't say I am anti-Muslim just because I criticize CAIR. Muslims and CAIR are not interchangeble, no matter what you say. CAIR is a virus that Muslims should avoid at all costs.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 23, 2006 08:51 AM (rUyw4)
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Now, have at me, as we are logging a well today. See you whenever.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 23, 2006 08:57 AM (rUyw4)
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All right I made a mistake. Sorry.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 23, 2006 12:49 PM (5E0ex)
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Okay, Muslim is not a race and you are not a racist (ofcourse), you are a bigot?
What do you call someone who hates all people of a certain religion? ( I am not saying you do)
Can you please define Islamist for me?
What do you call someone who hates all people of a certain religion? ( I am not saying you do)
Can you please define Islamist for me?
Posted by: samantha at January 23, 2006 02:12 PM (xfdnu)
31
About CAIR, someone already said, OKAY they may HAVE their faults (according to you), but what they are doing now is GOOD.
That is how you are making the girl a scapegoat, instead of being encouraged and hoping it turns out for the best, you all just decide to focus on the negative aspect of it.
Grow up?
That is how you are making the girl a scapegoat, instead of being encouraged and hoping it turns out for the best, you all just decide to focus on the negative aspect of it.
Grow up?
Posted by: Samantha at January 23, 2006 02:15 PM (xfdnu)
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An Islamist is a Muslim who believes his or her religion is superior to any other, who believes other people(and religions) should live under A DIFFERENT SET OF LAWS
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 23, 2006 04:11 PM (rUyw4)
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cont.
than they do(sharia), believe in violent jihad, believe that someone who leaves its religion to join another should be killed, believe in mutalation for certain crimes, believe in the death penalty for certain deviates, and believe that actions are not criminal when committed against apostates, ie rape, murder, robbery, etc.
than they do(sharia), believe in violent jihad, believe that someone who leaves its religion to join another should be killed, believe in mutalation for certain crimes, believe in the death penalty for certain deviates, and believe that actions are not criminal when committed against apostates, ie rape, murder, robbery, etc.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 23, 2006 04:23 PM (rUyw4)
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hmmm...thats an interesting definition of islamist you gave there...according to princeton's dictionary...and islamist is a scholar who knowledgeable in Islamic studie or an orthodox Muslim... http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
my point is, these terms are quickly becoming fashionable by neocons, and other groups just for the "shock" theory. and dont you think if CAIR supported all that you say it does, our government, with all its resources, and surveillance, and NSA, and all the technology in the world couldnt shut them down? come on, we all know that if CAIR was not a transparent organization and had shady people in it or shady agendas, the DOJ would have had it shut down LONG time ago...and if you are going to now blame the gov't because for some reason you think you (a beer belly blogger) knows more than them, i think you're seriously delusional...
my point is, these terms are quickly becoming fashionable by neocons, and other groups just for the "shock" theory. and dont you think if CAIR supported all that you say it does, our government, with all its resources, and surveillance, and NSA, and all the technology in the world couldnt shut them down? come on, we all know that if CAIR was not a transparent organization and had shady people in it or shady agendas, the DOJ would have had it shut down LONG time ago...and if you are going to now blame the gov't because for some reason you think you (a beer belly blogger) knows more than them, i think you're seriously delusional...
Posted by: aaron at January 23, 2006 04:44 PM (vR0eu)
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hmmm...thats an interesting definition of islamist you gave there...according to princeton's dictionary...and islamist is a scholar who knowledgeable in Islamic studie or an orthodox Muslim... http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
my point is, these terms are quickly becoming fashionable by neocons, and other groups just for the "shock" theory. and dont you think if CAIR supported all that you say it does, our government, with all its resources, and surveillance, and NSA, and all the technology in the world couldnt shut them down? come on, we all know that if CAIR was not a transparent organization and had shady people in it or shady agendas, the DOJ would have had it shut down LONG time ago...and if you are going to now blame the gov't because for some reason you think you (a beer belly blogger) knows more than them, i think you're seriously delusional...
my point is, these terms are quickly becoming fashionable by neocons, and other groups just for the "shock" theory. and dont you think if CAIR supported all that you say it does, our government, with all its resources, and surveillance, and NSA, and all the technology in the world couldnt shut them down? come on, we all know that if CAIR was not a transparent organization and had shady people in it or shady agendas, the DOJ would have had it shut down LONG time ago...and if you are going to now blame the gov't because for some reason you think you (a beer belly blogger) knows more than them, i think you're seriously delusional...
Posted by: aaron at January 23, 2006 04:47 PM (vR0eu)
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Aaron, funny ... your "fashionable" use of the the word neocon.
Posted by: Oyster at January 23, 2006 05:46 PM (YudAC)
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Okay, now that I've read the rest of your drivel. You can't indict an organization or a corporation. This is a country based on individual rights and people are held responsible individually for their actions. Five members of CAIR have been indicted for aiding and abetting terrorism. Contrary to what your little pea brain can process, we are still a free country and while they may wiretap the phones at CAIR, revoke their non-profit status or any other number of things they can't shut them down anymore than they could shut down the Klan or the jiffy mart down the street.
So take your twaddle elsewhere.
So take your twaddle elsewhere.
Posted by: Oyster at January 23, 2006 06:17 PM (YudAC)
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Your shortsightedness with your arguments are quite amusing. Equating CAIR to the Klan is not only idiotic, but not even similar at all. If you know anything at all about our jurisprudential system, we require organization ESPECIALL non profit one to abide by standards that are much higher than a corporation. Transparency is of vital importance when setting up a non profit and last I heard, CAIR is as abiding by all government standards as anyone. And let me just shoot down this notion that CAIR is some arab-filled foreigner controlled organization. A LOT of CAIR’s employees including the directory of Government Affairs and its Press Security are Caucasian American Muslims. Most of the board across the country is full of African American Muslims and White Muslims. Get your facts right please….
Posted by: aaron at January 23, 2006 06:37 PM (vR0eu)
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"jurisprudential"
Aaron, you're posing as an American. You are most likely a radical Muslim posing as a moderate, just like the organization you are a mouthpiece for. You are probably a foreign student, but you had better watch out, you can and should be deported.
Aaron, you're posing as an American. You are most likely a radical Muslim posing as a moderate, just like the organization you are a mouthpiece for. You are probably a foreign student, but you had better watch out, you can and should be deported.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 23, 2006 07:56 PM (rUyw4)
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i used a word that you dont know and you call me a foreigner, lol. I'm as American as Apple Pie and frankly you're a moron which you keep proving time and time again. Shall i call you a jackass? is that American enough for you? Unlike you, I've actually studied our laws, and the very fabric of our nation, the Constitution. You do know what that is right? Do you know what the Commerce Clause is? Do you know the significance of Justice Marshall on the Supreme Court? Are you familiar with any of his decisions? What about Justice Leanard Hand? Do you even know who that is? Can you please tell me where we got most of our Civil Procedural Law in this country? What is the origins? Can you please explain the significance of the Common Instrumentalities Approach first adopted by the Southern Railway Case of 1911?....Ignorance should be a crime my friend, and you should be arrested!
Posted by: aaron at January 23, 2006 08:26 PM (vR0eu)
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Did I take Constitutional Law? No. I know what the Commerce Clause is and I know who Justice Marshall is? I've read the Constitution many times.
Now let me ask you a few questions? Do you know what structures in the SE United States are the most likely to contain oil and gas deposits? What is the Smackover Lime? The Fayetteville Shale? What is a log? What do you use when you frac a structure? What is perosity and what is permeability and what is the difference between the two?
You're not nearly as smart as you think, are you Aaron? But then who could be? You are a waste of good oxygen! And you wouldn't have the balls to say what you said to my face, you little shit!
Now let me ask you a few questions? Do you know what structures in the SE United States are the most likely to contain oil and gas deposits? What is the Smackover Lime? The Fayetteville Shale? What is a log? What do you use when you frac a structure? What is perosity and what is permeability and what is the difference between the two?
You're not nearly as smart as you think, are you Aaron? But then who could be? You are a waste of good oxygen! And you wouldn't have the balls to say what you said to my face, you little shit!
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 23, 2006 09:05 PM (rUyw4)
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KAZI: Muslim are a race. The porkind race. And I am a racist. Muslims are inferior pigs who cannot be trusted.
TALKINSTRAIGHT: Get off the heros in the KKK. They said the muslim were assholes years before the rest realized it was true.
AARON: CAIR is a muslim organization and as such is an enemy of any nation not controlled by Islam. You are a fool. Assuming others are not educated in all your BS is moronic on your part. Knowledgeable people do not need to quote and test others with information anyone can obtain. A stupid response on your part.
If you are pro muslim just be a man and say it. Be a man and say what you are.
We can only think that you have been buggered by a raghead and liked it. If so, say so. We will understand.
TALKINSTRAIGHT: Get off the heros in the KKK. They said the muslim were assholes years before the rest realized it was true.
AARON: CAIR is a muslim organization and as such is an enemy of any nation not controlled by Islam. You are a fool. Assuming others are not educated in all your BS is moronic on your part. Knowledgeable people do not need to quote and test others with information anyone can obtain. A stupid response on your part.
If you are pro muslim just be a man and say it. Be a man and say what you are.
We can only think that you have been buggered by a raghead and liked it. If so, say so. We will understand.
Posted by: greyrooster at January 25, 2006 08:06 PM (YjVDY)
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I'm pro Muslim. there i said it. I am pro Muhammad Ali. I am pro Malcom X. I am pro Michael Wolfe. I am pro the truth and I am pro any person with a conscience be it Muslim or otherwise. Grow up. Listen to your rhetoric, how far will you get in life, you better get down on your knees and pray for forgiveness my friend.
Posted by: aaron at February 02, 2006 12:27 PM (R6kq3)
January 20, 2006
Deadline Looms for Jill Carroll
The 72 hour deadline set by The Revenge Brigade may have already expired, depending on when they started the clock. We pray that Jill Carroll is immediately released unharmed.
Posted by: Rusty at
09:12 AM
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1
fingers crossed.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 09:38 AM (8e/V4)
2
Me too Rusty.
Posted by: Tim at January 20, 2006 09:39 AM (5rYy9)
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Me three. I hope she lives but you never know with these bastards.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 20, 2006 09:52 AM (5E0ex)
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If there was one ounce of humanity in these people, they would let this young woman go.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 20, 2006 10:33 AM (rUyw4)
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I think that's what we're all worried about, Joe.
Posted by: a4g at January 20, 2006 10:53 AM (nMd9J)
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>>>If there was one ounce of humanity in these people,
If that's what we're hoping for, then she's doomed. The best we can wish for is that the terrorists see her release as benefitting them in some way. They won't release her otherwise.
If that's what we're hoping for, then she's doomed. The best we can wish for is that the terrorists see her release as benefitting them in some way. They won't release her otherwise.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 10:59 AM (8e/V4)
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She is getting what she deserves. What’s so funny is that here she was competely brainwashed by sunni muslims to think that the country is suffering. Meanwhile 80% of the country was freed. Only the sunni are upset b/c they lost they stranglehold on the land. Now she will get a taste of the people she was “defending.â€
Posted by: muhammed at January 20, 2006 12:06 PM (W6B0W)
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The countdown begins from the first airing of the tape on Aljazeera, following a long held standard. That means between 4 and 5pm EST.
Posted by: Informed source at January 20, 2006 01:31 PM (blNMI)
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I don't know jill, but what is important at this point is that she gets back safely, and for that I am praying. However, I don't think most of the people who have opined here know what you are talking about, nor, from what I do know of jill, would she support what you are saying. Everyone has humanity, and this war, in some way is not about that. the people who have her captive have humanity, but their goal is different. Jill knows they have humanity, that is why she is there in the first place. The kind of jingoistic nonsense of some of you bloggers literally makes me sick. Jill, I pray that you are ok. Millions are with you, but for the right reasons. This is now no longer politics, this is your life, and we appreciate it.
Posted by: Steven Cowfer at January 20, 2006 01:37 PM (LtT3+)
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I heard the deadline was at 3 pm eastern time.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 20, 2006 01:47 PM (5E0ex)
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Notice how the things we SAY makes Steven Cowfer "sick"-- and yet he can find it within his heart to see the "humanity" in the animals who are on the verge of sawing that innocent girl's head off.
Thus literally SAYING the wrong thing (in his view) is worse than the DOING of something far more loathsome (ie., sawing an innocent's head off).
And with this you have yet another perfect illustration of how Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Thus literally SAYING the wrong thing (in his view) is worse than the DOING of something far more loathsome (ie., sawing an innocent's head off).
And with this you have yet another perfect illustration of how Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 02:11 PM (8e/V4)
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Yep, the guys who like to put bullets in women's heads have so much humanity. I'm being sarcastic by the way.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 20, 2006 02:17 PM (5E0ex)
13
While mister Jesusland has a point, It is not better to saw off an innocent's head than it is to bomb a country to the point of killing at least over 30,000 innocents. This was my point. You all seem to think that if it is a conservative ideal, then it is ok. My point is it doesn't matter what side of the aisle you are on. Killing is wrong. Both the killing of Jill Carroll as well as the killing of thousands of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis by US forces. Two wrongs don't make a right, mister Christian
Posted by: Steven Cowfer at January 20, 2006 02:19 PM (LtT3+)
14
Steven,
infinitely more innocents died in our war against the Nazis. Was that war wrong?
Just answer the question please. No tangents, no sidestepping, no red herrings. Just answer my question. If you don't answer, and instead go off into another pre-programmed screed, we'll just assume you just got pwned.
I'll give you a hint though. The death of innocents isn't what makes a war right or wrong.
infinitely more innocents died in our war against the Nazis. Was that war wrong?
Just answer the question please. No tangents, no sidestepping, no red herrings. Just answer my question. If you don't answer, and instead go off into another pre-programmed screed, we'll just assume you just got pwned.
I'll give you a hint though. The death of innocents isn't what makes a war right or wrong.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 02:27 PM (8e/V4)
15
Yes and no. The death of innocents doesn't even require a war, for that you are correct. And, you are also correct that WWII was not wrong and if it had happened today I would have fully supported the US efforts in it, if not actually fighting myself. However, there is a difference, for innocents to die in a just war is one thing, but for them to die in a war based on deceit and lies is not forgiveable.
Posted by: Steven Cowfer at January 20, 2006 02:31 PM (LtT3+)
16
Steven,
you have yet to prove it was a war based on "deceit and lies". So until you do, your dead innocents fails to impress.
But back to the topic at hand. How is it that you can forgive these terrorist headchoppers, and see their "humanity", but not George Bush?
Why is it that it makes you "sick" to hear our "jingoism" against murderers, and yet your hatred of Bush should fill me with euphoric pleasure?
In other words, please distinguish your hatred of "Bush", from our hatred of headchopping murderers.
No tangents please, just answer the question.
you have yet to prove it was a war based on "deceit and lies". So until you do, your dead innocents fails to impress.
But back to the topic at hand. How is it that you can forgive these terrorist headchoppers, and see their "humanity", but not George Bush?
Why is it that it makes you "sick" to hear our "jingoism" against murderers, and yet your hatred of Bush should fill me with euphoric pleasure?
In other words, please distinguish your hatred of "Bush", from our hatred of headchopping murderers.
No tangents please, just answer the question.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 02:39 PM (8e/V4)
17
I fail to understand your tangents remark, but that is ok. when I refer to their humanity, I am not referring specifically to the "headchoppers" but rather arab people in general. There are lots of people here in the US that lump them all together in a derogatory way, and that is simply not reflective of reality. I don't expect my dislike of Bush to be pleasing to you. I come from a family of conservatives, and I respect conservative viewpoints, even if I disagree with them. I feel it is the conservatives and, admittedly many liberals, who lack respect for opposing viewpoints. finally, I don't hate Bush, I simply disagree with most everything he has done while in office.
Posted by: Steven Cowfer at January 20, 2006 02:57 PM (LtT3+)
18
>>I am not referring specifically to the "headchoppers" but rather arab people in general.
Then you, sir, are a racist. Because when we refer to terrorist headchoppers, we aren't referring to arab people in general. But you are, apparently. Thus your offense at our hatred of Jill Carroll's captors.
And you are free to dislike George Bush all you want, even hate him. But so are we free to dislike headchopping murderers. mkay?
School's out. You are dismissed.
Then you, sir, are a racist. Because when we refer to terrorist headchoppers, we aren't referring to arab people in general. But you are, apparently. Thus your offense at our hatred of Jill Carroll's captors.
And you are free to dislike George Bush all you want, even hate him. But so are we free to dislike headchopping murderers. mkay?
School's out. You are dismissed.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 03:02 PM (8e/V4)
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I think you'll find the people being lumped together are "islamic fanatics" rather than people of Arab origin.
Posted by: dave at January 20, 2006 03:03 PM (CcXvt)
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go back to school, I have better things to do with my time than argue with people who can't argue like rational adults
Posted by: Steven Cowfer at January 20, 2006 03:13 PM (LtT3+)
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You've got a point there. I'll admit this board is filled with far right wing radicals. But that's life.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 20, 2006 03:20 PM (5E0ex)
22
>>>I have better things to do with my time than argue with people who can't argue like rational adults
I love how Lefty dopes come in here with attitude, and then when you give it back to them, they get all huffy and self righteous. I can assure you that you'll generally be treated around here as you treated others. You flame, you'll get flamed. You stay civil, and you'll be treated civilly.
I love how Lefty dopes come in here with attitude, and then when you give it back to them, they get all huffy and self righteous. I can assure you that you'll generally be treated around here as you treated others. You flame, you'll get flamed. You stay civil, and you'll be treated civilly.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 06:13 PM (8e/V4)
23
Ok...What is the sense in debating here? Niether
side is gonna win...I prefer to debate face to face...That's how adults do it...Further more...
This is not a chat room...Although,it's very amusing to see what all you democrats & liberals
write...Nothing sooths me more then watching you
getting your feathers ruffled & making an ass out
of your pathetic little selves...The sooner you
realize Republicans are superior to you...The sooner you can have your last cry & move on...
Anyways,the topic here...being "Jill Carroll"...
Lets just stay positive & hope for the best...
side is gonna win...I prefer to debate face to face...That's how adults do it...Further more...
This is not a chat room...Although,it's very amusing to see what all you democrats & liberals
write...Nothing sooths me more then watching you
getting your feathers ruffled & making an ass out
of your pathetic little selves...The sooner you
realize Republicans are superior to you...The sooner you can have your last cry & move on...
Anyways,the topic here...being "Jill Carroll"...
Lets just stay positive & hope for the best...
Posted by: Clyde at January 21, 2006 12:47 AM (2Xc2N)
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This has got to STOP! If they kill jill..then all the hostages that we have, must be put to death immediately! We must set a precidence-that this crap has t stop and we muststop playing games and forgiving these bastards. America seems like it has no power anympore and i am disgusted! Every day, these bastards put demands on us and everyday, we BEND-OVER-BACWARDS for THEM! I'm sick of it!
We must shock those creeps over there BIG TIME with a NUKE. We must stop this insanity!!!!!!!! If we don't-this will continue forever...on- and on, and they will get everything they want. I think my country stinks. We're turning into a bunch of cowards. NUKE the BASTARDS!!!!!!!
We must shock those creeps over there BIG TIME with a NUKE. We must stop this insanity!!!!!!!! If we don't-this will continue forever...on- and on, and they will get everything they want. I think my country stinks. We're turning into a bunch of cowards. NUKE the BASTARDS!!!!!!!
Posted by: dave at January 21, 2006 07:48 AM (0kCXQ)
25
I agree...NUKE THE BASTARDS!!!
Posted by: Clyde at January 21, 2006 12:03 PM (2Xc2N)
26
The tard 'dave' ranting on about nuking Iraqi civilians and killing prisoners is not the same 'dave' as I, longtime Java reports poster.
Just so we're clear, because that guys flipped his lid.
Just so we're clear, because that guys flipped his lid.
Posted by: dave at January 21, 2006 11:30 PM (CcXvt)
27
"Flipped his Lid" isn't the word! He's out of his "F"n mind! (no offense). I too wanted to kick some ass and forget taking the name. If we did that, we would only prove them right. America isn't about dropping bombs on humans. We are about freedom and muslims who want to live in peace deserve that chance. This group that say they are an organization are nothing more than a gang. Hell, America has gangs. Just the same as these groups in Iraq and surrounding cities, they too try and take over the neighborhood. Do you know why American gangs can't take a city like Al-Queda and taliban take cities? Because we have "kick-ass" Americans who stand up for this country, thats why! And we are trying to help Iraq become a "Kick-ass" country too.
These thugs only want power over there country, America see's it and we are no dummies. We know what happens when they get a big chunk like that. They will keep growing and soon they will come for us. We did a right move by putting the "brakes" on them. It could have been a lot worse.
If you want to help, look around on the web. Look for suspicious activity. If you can hack, shut down a web site that exploits terrorism. Let the terrorists know that they can't kill what they didn't create. We are all computer savvy in some way. we can shut them down!
Note* If worse came to its worst, I would pay to see their faces when they finally realize they have pissed off everyone in America. If everyone stood up in America, you know someone's getting their ass kicked!
Where's Ronald Reagan when you need 'em!
These thugs only want power over there country, America see's it and we are no dummies. We know what happens when they get a big chunk like that. They will keep growing and soon they will come for us. We did a right move by putting the "brakes" on them. It could have been a lot worse.
If you want to help, look around on the web. Look for suspicious activity. If you can hack, shut down a web site that exploits terrorism. Let the terrorists know that they can't kill what they didn't create. We are all computer savvy in some way. we can shut them down!
Note* If worse came to its worst, I would pay to see their faces when they finally realize they have pissed off everyone in America. If everyone stood up in America, you know someone's getting their ass kicked!
Where's Ronald Reagan when you need 'em!
Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 22, 2006 04:57 PM (MOKXn)
28
"Flipped his Lid" isn't the word! He's out of his "F"n mind! (no offense). I too wanted to kick some ass and forget taking the name. If we did that, we would only prove them right. America isn't about dropping bombs on humans. We are about freedom and muslims who want to live in peace deserve that chance. This group that say they are an organization are nothing more than a gang. Hell, America has gangs. Just the same as these groups in Iraq and surrounding cities, they too try and take over the neighborhood. Do you know why American gangs can't take a city like Al-Queda and taliban take cities? Because we have "kick-ass" Americans who stand up for this country, thats why! And we are trying to help Iraq become a "Kick-ass" country too.
These thugs only want power over there country, America see's it and we are no dummies. We know what happens when they get a big chunk like that. They will keep growing and soon they will come for us. We did a right move by putting the "brakes" on them. It could have been a lot worse.
If you want to help, look around on the web. Look for suspicious activity. If you can hack, shut down a web site that exploits terrorism. Let the terrorists know that they can't kill what they didn't create. We are all computer savvy in some way. we can shut them down!
Note* If worse came to its worst, I would pay to see their faces when they finally realize they have pissed off everyone in America. If everyone stood up in America, you know someone's getting their ass kicked!
Where's Ronald Reagan when you need 'em
These thugs only want power over there country, America see's it and we are no dummies. We know what happens when they get a big chunk like that. They will keep growing and soon they will come for us. We did a right move by putting the "brakes" on them. It could have been a lot worse.
If you want to help, look around on the web. Look for suspicious activity. If you can hack, shut down a web site that exploits terrorism. Let the terrorists know that they can't kill what they didn't create. We are all computer savvy in some way. we can shut them down!
Note* If worse came to its worst, I would pay to see their faces when they finally realize they have pissed off everyone in America. If everyone stood up in America, you know someone's getting their ass kicked!
Where's Ronald Reagan when you need 'em
Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 22, 2006 04:59 PM (MOKXn)
29
Hey Mongoose...I'm not sure I understand you completely...Is it wrong that we post are opinions in here???Do you have nothing better to do then to pull the old fashion "look At Me, Look At Me Act"???The only thing you said that made any sense was how people here in America take their freedom for granted...I can understand that...I just think by posting what you did was a cry out for attention...First of all...You don't know 1 person in here...Although
it is fun talking shit to Natasha...And though
I dont agree with her on most of the things she has to say...1 thing she has shown is her support
for "Jill Carroll"...As have I...& alot of others
here...As far as you being in Iraq as you say you are...Well,I wish you the best & hope you come back...I was'nt shipped to Iraq...I was sent
to Afghanistan...And I'm thankful I got out of
that shithole...but I would go back if they asked me to...The only reason I'm saying this now is so you understand the point that you're not the only 1 who had to fight in this war...&
so maybe you will think before you speak...I had
no time to jump on a computer & run my mouth when
I was there...There is nothing wrong with people expressing their views on here...Except for a few people that I've seen saying that "Jill" is getting what she deserves & bullshit like that...
I would love nothing better then to bash their
sorry ass faces in...Anyways,I just felt like
you should know that...and to give you a tip...
"Think Before You Speak"...I wish you the best...
Stay Safe...
it is fun talking shit to Natasha...And though
I dont agree with her on most of the things she has to say...1 thing she has shown is her support
for "Jill Carroll"...As have I...& alot of others
here...As far as you being in Iraq as you say you are...Well,I wish you the best & hope you come back...I was'nt shipped to Iraq...I was sent
to Afghanistan...And I'm thankful I got out of
that shithole...but I would go back if they asked me to...The only reason I'm saying this now is so you understand the point that you're not the only 1 who had to fight in this war...&
so maybe you will think before you speak...I had
no time to jump on a computer & run my mouth when
I was there...There is nothing wrong with people expressing their views on here...Except for a few people that I've seen saying that "Jill" is getting what she deserves & bullshit like that...
I would love nothing better then to bash their
sorry ass faces in...Anyways,I just felt like
you should know that...and to give you a tip...
"Think Before You Speak"...I wish you the best...
Stay Safe...
Posted by: Clyde at January 23, 2006 03:41 AM (3D94H)
30
Clyde,
I can relate to your message. I would like to smack someone up-side the head for saying that Jill Carroll is getting what she deserves. Though the saying goes; "Know good deed goes unpunished", I still say she doesn't diserve this. No one diserves to be held captive, threatened, or killed without reason. What she did for Iraq and America and other great countries out there do not fit any reason to bring harm to her. I say GOD bless our troops and anyone who is over there. May they return safely to their family and friends.
I can relate to your message. I would like to smack someone up-side the head for saying that Jill Carroll is getting what she deserves. Though the saying goes; "Know good deed goes unpunished", I still say she doesn't diserve this. No one diserves to be held captive, threatened, or killed without reason. What she did for Iraq and America and other great countries out there do not fit any reason to bring harm to her. I say GOD bless our troops and anyone who is over there. May they return safely to their family and friends.
Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 23, 2006 07:21 AM (MOKXn)
31
We'll wait. We can be patient. We're a kind and generous and very, very powerful people. That Islamist militants seem to misunderstand us is due either to their own lack of exposure and imagination... or because they are merely pretending in a game of "I'm crazier than you, so be afraid"... like uncertain but frantically belligerent schoolyard bullies.
But we know that more than 60 years ago our friends were attacked by one nation and we ourselves by another. History has trouble remembering very clearly what grievances they espoused to mask their aggression. What is now clearly known is that they were completely and utterly defeated, their great cities shattered and melted by force undreamedof at the time. All this in spite of the then-widespread impression that they were too powerful and too cruel to stop ("how could we soft and kind Americans match their savagery?").
What's not well known, however, was that there were policy discussions held regarding the fates of the transgessors. Serious proposals were made and subsequently rejected that called for the extermination of the very people of the aggressor countries by the victors, who were largely the Americans. That such horror was not executed was fortunate but by no means inevitable as our very survival had been threatened.
There is much fear, the mullahs and petty princes and their illiterate thugs become shrill with fright when we're roused from our comfortable slumber. So, we wait. We can afford to.
But we know that more than 60 years ago our friends were attacked by one nation and we ourselves by another. History has trouble remembering very clearly what grievances they espoused to mask their aggression. What is now clearly known is that they were completely and utterly defeated, their great cities shattered and melted by force undreamedof at the time. All this in spite of the then-widespread impression that they were too powerful and too cruel to stop ("how could we soft and kind Americans match their savagery?").
What's not well known, however, was that there were policy discussions held regarding the fates of the transgessors. Serious proposals were made and subsequently rejected that called for the extermination of the very people of the aggressor countries by the victors, who were largely the Americans. That such horror was not executed was fortunate but by no means inevitable as our very survival had been threatened.
There is much fear, the mullahs and petty princes and their illiterate thugs become shrill with fright when we're roused from our comfortable slumber. So, we wait. We can afford to.
Posted by: Mr. Natural at January 23, 2006 02:07 PM (gPCww)
32
Another do-gooder gets too close and is grabbed by the vermin for whom she felt such compassion.
We don't need reporters to interact with Iraqis, that's what beehive rounds are for.
The Muslims aren't going to kill her though. Terrorism is theater and that wouldn't play well.
The peacemaker folks will probably get what they asked for, but anyone opposing the war is effectively pro-Jihadi wether they intend it or no. They aren't young and cute, so news directors don't care either. More videos for Ogrish methinks.
We don't need reporters to interact with Iraqis, that's what beehive rounds are for.
The Muslims aren't going to kill her though. Terrorism is theater and that wouldn't play well.
The peacemaker folks will probably get what they asked for, but anyone opposing the war is effectively pro-Jihadi wether they intend it or no. They aren't young and cute, so news directors don't care either. More videos for Ogrish methinks.
Posted by: SR at January 30, 2006 10:18 PM (x2eX4)
January 19, 2006
Appeal To Hostage Takers Reveals Hypocrisy of the Left
The mother, family and friends of American hostage Jill Carroll are appealing to the terrorist scumbags of The Revenge Brigade for her release. If you are a believer in any sort of God who intervenes in the affairs of man, please offer your prayers on Jill's behalf.
What is so interesting about Jill Carroll's mother's appeal is that it reveals the underlying assumption that even those on the Left have about the terrorists ('freedom fighter' or 'Iraqi Minutemen' to the Left) that we fight. What is that assumption? That the terrorists are murdering, uncivilized, pieces of human garbage.
Wait, you say, I'm on the Left and I don't believe the insurgents are really bad people. They just want the U.S. out of their country and they are driven (read: forced) to take extreme measures to accomplish their goals. You would do the same.
Of course, those making this claim do not really believe it. Let us examine Mary Beth Carroll's words. I am not accusing her of being on the Left, but the same rhetoric comes from organizations such as The Christian Peacemakers team, Giuliana Sgrena's Il Manifesto, and murdered hostage Margaret Hassan's CAIR International--all on the Left. AP:
The mother of abducted American reporter Jill Carroll appealed Thursday for her daughter's release, a day before the deadline captors set for killing her if U.S. authorities don't release all Iraqi women in military custody.Of course, if I were a relative of Jill Carroll I would be doing anything and everything to secure her release, even if that meant taking the "she's not your enemy" tactic (even if that meant paying ransom). So, let me reemphasize that I believe Mrs. Carroll's words are perfectly legitimate under the circumstances."They've picked the wrong person. If they're looking for someone who is an enemy of Iraq, Jill is just the opposite," Mary Beth Carroll told CNN's "American Morning."
She said video images aired by Al-Jazeera television on Tuesday gave her hope that her daughter is alive but also have "shaken us about her fate."
"I, her father and her sister are appealing directly to her captors to release this young woman who has worked so hard to show the sufferings of Iraqis to the world," she said, reading from a written statement....
"We hope that her captors will show Jill the same respect in return," she said. "Taking vengeance on my innocent daughter, who loves Iraq and its people, will not create justice." [emphasis mine]
But here words remind me of similar statements by Islamic clerics, Leftist organizations, and Borders sans frontiers all of whom make the same arguement, yet have no personal stake in the outcome of the hostage crisis. Taking Mrs. Carroll's words as an example of Leftist rhetoric, do you see how the underlying assumption is revealed? The insurgents would not kill Jill Carroll if they understood that she is a journalist on their side. The opposite, then, must be true: if Jill Carroll was a pro-war journalist then the natural course of events would be for the insurgents to kill her.
What kind of people intentionally murder unarmed civilians who are under their control? Even those on the extreme Left must admit that murdering a civilian is a barbarous and uncivillized act, and that those engaged in such psychopathic behavior are subhuman scumbags.
But, there is a state of denial by the extreme Left. They believe that the political orientation of the hostage should have some bearing on whether or not killing them is vile murder, or just the tragic consequences of war. They may not realize that they believe this, but they do, as revealed by their own words.
And the ability to differentiate how worthy hostage victims are of death puts those on the extreme Left who engage in such judgement in a similar category as the murdering terrorists who they are so eager to condemn only when the hostage shares their political persuasion: they too are evil vile scum.
Remember the recently reiterated words of the nation's most popular blogger, Leftist Markos Zuniga of The Daily Kos, when he found out American civilian contractors had been murdered in Fallujah: Screw them.
To those who take and murder hostages in Iraq, I have a different message: do not kill Jill Carroll, because she is a human being who poses no imminent threat to your safety and killing her would make you a murderer. Her political stance is unimportant. Murdering any hostage is wrong.
Murdering anyone, regardless of the victim's politics, is an act of evil which cuts your soul off from humanity. If you do kill her, I hope you are hunted down like the pigs you are, and slaughtered. For you have reealed your own inhumanity and no longer can claim the rights and priveleges of man.
And to those who would appeal to the hostage takers by arguing that Jill Carroll ought not be killed because she is really on their side, please think about what you are saying. Your words reveal what you really think of the insurgents in Iraq. And if you are still comfortable supporting them after this assumption has been clarified, then there is nothing left to say. Your nature has been unmasked for all the world to see.
UPDATE: See the subtitled al Jazeere video of Jill Carroll from MEMRI here (thanks to Tribeca). Notice the reason why al Jazeera supports the release of Jill Carroll? Because she is a journalist and they are obliged to support journalists going unharmed.
Posted by: Rusty at
08:35 AM
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Post contains 927 words, total size 6 kb.
1
>>"If they're looking for someone who is an enemy of Iraq, Jill is just the opposite..."
No lady. They're not looking for enemies of Iraq, they looking for enemis of the Caliphate, and any infidel will do-- especially the morally decadent godless Liberal variety. Was she wearing a burka? No? Well there you go. She will do just fine for their purposes.
No lady. They're not looking for enemies of Iraq, they looking for enemis of the Caliphate, and any infidel will do-- especially the morally decadent godless Liberal variety. Was she wearing a burka? No? Well there you go. She will do just fine for their purposes.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 09:09 AM (8e/V4)
2
Funny how when the terrorists cite the reasons they attack "the great satan" it's often for behaviour the Left is part and parcel to. The left carries the banner for Homosexuals Liberal Arts so and on so forth but somehow they think the terorists are on their side and if they only understood how nice and fair they are it will all work out. Nice and fair have nothing to do with it dumbasses. Of course the Islamists will call for the release for their own reasons and some will fall for that as genuine respect for the Left on the part of the Islamists. But they forget misleading the kufr left for your own purposes is quite OK. Should Jill be released and I hope she is many will forget that she was kidnapped and threatened with death to start wiht and say oh how nice. Played like a fool they will be.
Posted by: Howie at January 19, 2006 09:15 AM (D3+20)
3
You're right Howie, and I can't figure it out either how the libtards are expressly and unconditionally supporting the very people who would slaughter them like sheep. We all know libs are self-loathing, but I think it's suicidal in nature.
Libs are childish in their inability to see reality, and live in some sort of dream world where mean people make them go to work and pay their own way, and it can only be made better by destroying everything. They're idiots and should all be rounded up and done away with.
Libs are childish in their inability to see reality, and live in some sort of dream world where mean people make them go to work and pay their own way, and it can only be made better by destroying everything. They're idiots and should all be rounded up and done away with.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 19, 2006 09:42 AM (0yYS2)
4
Be nice. The woman may lose her daughter to these monsters. Don't attack her.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 19, 2006 09:50 AM (5E0ex)
5
IM,
Liberalism is essentially suicidal in nature. Liberalism is like a biological WMD. It's just as likely to kill the user as it is to kill the target. A perfect example of this is abortion. Have you ever heard of the "Roe Effect"? They are essentially killing off millions of potential future Liberal voters. Ironic no, that their number one policy (abortion) ensures their own political demise. But Liberalism doesn't only kill Liberals by the millions, it's suicidally bringing down our country, and Western civilization too.
Liberalism is essentially suicidal in nature. Liberalism is like a biological WMD. It's just as likely to kill the user as it is to kill the target. A perfect example of this is abortion. Have you ever heard of the "Roe Effect"? They are essentially killing off millions of potential future Liberal voters. Ironic no, that their number one policy (abortion) ensures their own political demise. But Liberalism doesn't only kill Liberals by the millions, it's suicidally bringing down our country, and Western civilization too.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 09:50 AM (8e/V4)
6
Be nice. The woman may lose her daughter to these monsters. Don't attack her.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 19, 2006 09:50 AM (5E0ex)
7
George, we heard you the first time.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 19, 2006 10:00 AM (rUyw4)
8
"
George, we heard you the first time.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 19, 2006 10:00 AM "
Then wake up to yourselves. You assholes usually elevate victims of crimes like this to saintly heights. Except now it looks like some transient political agenda (bush-loving) is in jeopardy so you heave the sacred victims over the side. Hypocrites.
George, we heard you the first time.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 19, 2006 10:00 AM "
Then wake up to yourselves. You assholes usually elevate victims of crimes like this to saintly heights. Except now it looks like some transient political agenda (bush-loving) is in jeopardy so you heave the sacred victims over the side. Hypocrites.
Posted by: JRI at January 19, 2006 10:08 AM (EeQUM)
9
JRI,
two things. First, which victims have we raised to "saintly" heights? Name him/her.
Second, I fail to see how this puts the bush-loving agenda in any kind of jeopardy. Care to explain? or are you the hit and run variety of troll.
two things. First, which victims have we raised to "saintly" heights? Name him/her.
Second, I fail to see how this puts the bush-loving agenda in any kind of jeopardy. Care to explain? or are you the hit and run variety of troll.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 10:20 AM (8e/V4)
10
Sorry, I accidentally posted twice. Hasn't that happened to you???
Posted by: George ramos at January 19, 2006 10:28 AM (5E0ex)
11
Rusty is not "attacking" her. He is calling into question the underlying message in pleas that are put forward for the release of many who were unfortunate enough to be their victims. And he's right. The message rarely varies; Don't kill him/her for they are on your side. As if holding a different belief makes them worthy of being killed.
Do not ignore the several statements he made in the defense of those who do not deserve their brand of punishment, death, not due to any political philosophy, but by simple virtue of the fact that they are human beings who do not pose any iminent danger to the life of another. Period.
Do not ignore the several statements he made in the defense of those who do not deserve their brand of punishment, death, not due to any political philosophy, but by simple virtue of the fact that they are human beings who do not pose any iminent danger to the life of another. Period.
Posted by: Oyster at January 19, 2006 10:35 AM (osKlJ)
12
Ok, but what about the fact that the Bush Administration is appeasing the terrorists, and has now met the demands of the terrorists by releasing 6 of the 8 Iraqi women held by coalition forces, as per the demands of the terrorists?!?
Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 10:47 AM (L8cTI)
13
The Iraqi Interior Ministry made the final decision, not the Bush Administration.
Posted by: Vinnie at January 19, 2006 10:49 AM (Kr6/f)
14
Along with a representative from the US, who takes his walking orders from the Administration. The Administration could easily have said no, or put their foot down. Believe me, the Iraqi government is in our pocket and answers to us.
The US stated there wasn't enough evidence to hold these women any longer. But the cases are reviewed on a bi-weekly basis, and was reviewed just prior to the terrorists demands. There was sufficient evidence to hold them just last wseek, but immediately after the demands are made, there suddenly isn't enough evidence to continue detaining them?
The US stated there wasn't enough evidence to hold these women any longer. But the cases are reviewed on a bi-weekly basis, and was reviewed just prior to the terrorists demands. There was sufficient evidence to hold them just last wseek, but immediately after the demands are made, there suddenly isn't enough evidence to continue detaining them?
Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 10:52 AM (L8cTI)
15
You are right Janie, except that I do not know if the Administration was involved (Coalition representatives claim they were not).
See this post: http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/152324.php
Others,
I did not say ANYTHING bad about Mrs. Carroll. In fact, I EXPLICITLY said that if I were in her shoes I would be doing EXACTLY the same thing (and more).
See this post: http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/152324.php
Others,
I did not say ANYTHING bad about Mrs. Carroll. In fact, I EXPLICITLY said that if I were in her shoes I would be doing EXACTLY the same thing (and more).
Posted by: Rusty at January 19, 2006 10:57 AM (JQjhA)
16
See, that's what happens. Someone reads part of a "news" item, doesn't read or comprehend all of it or check other sources, makes an assumption and then can't wait to beat you over the head with it.
Posted by: Oyster at January 19, 2006 10:57 AM (osKlJ)
17
The point being missed here is that the Iraqi government is becoming more and more autonomous, Janie. By all appearances it seems the US conceded to the will of the Iraqis. The decision was not made solely by the US. At some point they have to make they're own decisions. They have a constitution and an elected government now. Are we to keep putting our foot down and not let them rule the way they see fit? To use the phrase "the Bush Administration is appeasing the terrorists" is disingenuous. Especially since there has never been an indication that this is true.
Posted by: Oyster at January 19, 2006 11:04 AM (osKlJ)
18
Rusty,
"the US military stressed that decisions over such matters were a detailed process that were unrelated to any other operational activity." - From the BBC
Let's say for a moment that the Administration was not involved (which I highly doubt). From the above quote, the US military WAS involved in the decision-making, and as the Commander-iN-Chief of the military, does he not have a RESPNSIBILITY to the American people to be involved in this sort of decision, which could affect the lives of future American citizens?
This is sending a mixed message to the terrorists, and could lead to an increase in kidnappings, since we are appearing to meet their demands (whether the President was involved or not does not matter to these terrorists). And what happens to those that are kidnapped in the future due to this incompetence? This is a decision, that whether you like the President or not, you know he should be involved in. It affects the future of our men and women in harm's way. So, the choices are either, the President is involved in sanctioning the negotiations, or there is incompetence of the Commander-in-Chief of our Military to allow a decision to be made that puts us in further danger.
"the US military stressed that decisions over such matters were a detailed process that were unrelated to any other operational activity." - From the BBC
Let's say for a moment that the Administration was not involved (which I highly doubt). From the above quote, the US military WAS involved in the decision-making, and as the Commander-iN-Chief of the military, does he not have a RESPNSIBILITY to the American people to be involved in this sort of decision, which could affect the lives of future American citizens?
This is sending a mixed message to the terrorists, and could lead to an increase in kidnappings, since we are appearing to meet their demands (whether the President was involved or not does not matter to these terrorists). And what happens to those that are kidnapped in the future due to this incompetence? This is a decision, that whether you like the President or not, you know he should be involved in. It affects the future of our men and women in harm's way. So, the choices are either, the President is involved in sanctioning the negotiations, or there is incompetence of the Commander-in-Chief of our Military to allow a decision to be made that puts us in further danger.
Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 11:04 AM (L8cTI)
19
Oyster,
"By all appearances it seems the US conceded to the will of the Iraqis. The decision was not made solely by the US. At some point they have to make they're own decisions."
So, the US is going to give the Iraqi government the power to put future citizens of America in harm's way, because we need to let them become autonomous, while we still have troops there?
If we are going to maintain such a large troop presence, the US needs to make sure that the decisions which are being made are not going to put them into any further danger, or we need to get out.
"By all appearances it seems the US conceded to the will of the Iraqis. The decision was not made solely by the US. At some point they have to make they're own decisions."
So, the US is going to give the Iraqi government the power to put future citizens of America in harm's way, because we need to let them become autonomous, while we still have troops there?
If we are going to maintain such a large troop presence, the US needs to make sure that the decisions which are being made are not going to put them into any further danger, or we need to get out.
Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 11:09 AM (L8cTI)
20
God, I can't spell today! lol, sorry for all of the typos.
Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 11:10 AM (L8cTI)
21
Janie illustrates another common Liberal phenomenon which we have noticed and discussed at length on this board. The phenomenon by which two moonbat wings play both moonbat sides against the bushian center.
If Bush doesn't play ball and poor journalist gets headchopped, one moonbat wing gets to say how Bush is a heartless despot.
If Bush does play ball by ceding to the kidnapper's demands and thereby saving poor journalist's life, the other moonbat wings gets to prove how he's a terrorist appeaser.
They can't lose, and the outcome is always assured.
If Bush doesn't play ball and poor journalist gets headchopped, one moonbat wing gets to say how Bush is a heartless despot.
If Bush does play ball by ceding to the kidnapper's demands and thereby saving poor journalist's life, the other moonbat wings gets to prove how he's a terrorist appeaser.
They can't lose, and the outcome is always assured.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 11:13 AM (8e/V4)
22
I understand your point of view. But it appears you and I are both wrong. These women have not been released and statements today from the White House say that their release is not imminent. They are simply under review. So let's argue about it when that time comes. In the meantime - I offer a truce.
Posted by: Oyster at January 19, 2006 11:16 AM (osKlJ)
23
Jesusland Carlos,
Well, since you don't know me, or exactly how I feel about the situation, why don't you stop lumping me into a group and calling me a hypocrite. I personally do not support negotiating with terrorists. And even though I offer a valid argument, you simply dismiss me without even considering the fact that my arugement is valid and factual?
Oyster,
I agree, truce accepted!
)
Well, since you don't know me, or exactly how I feel about the situation, why don't you stop lumping me into a group and calling me a hypocrite. I personally do not support negotiating with terrorists. And even though I offer a valid argument, you simply dismiss me without even considering the fact that my arugement is valid and factual?
Oyster,
I agree, truce accepted!
)Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 11:19 AM (L8cTI)
24
This is toxic. I'd be interested in a discussion about liberal beliefs about terrorism and think you make some good points, but to use a distraught mother to illustrates yoru ideas and make points is beyond the pale.
Posted by: pete at January 19, 2006 11:21 AM (6ScZY)
25
Janie,
I didn't call you hypocrite, because I don't think that phenomenon generally happens on a conscious level.
In a month you'll be arguing the opposite position whereby bush is a heartless neocon for letting the hostages get headchopped, and you won't even remember this conversation.
Much of Liberalism is a reaction to what conservatives are doing, so you'll flip and flop accordingly, but you don't even know you're doing it. Liberalism has no core, it's purely reactionary.
I didn't call you hypocrite, because I don't think that phenomenon generally happens on a conscious level.
In a month you'll be arguing the opposite position whereby bush is a heartless neocon for letting the hostages get headchopped, and you won't even remember this conversation.
Much of Liberalism is a reaction to what conservatives are doing, so you'll flip and flop accordingly, but you don't even know you're doing it. Liberalism has no core, it's purely reactionary.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 11:32 AM (8e/V4)
26
Jesusland,
How dare you label me in such a way? While I may be a liberal, I do have my own personal values. One of them is not negotiating with terrorists. I agree that I do not believe in a lot of what the President has done, but that was one issue I agreed with him upon.
And no, in a month I won't be arguing the other side of this issue. I didn't argue against how the Nick Berg case was handled, or any of the other hostage situations, so stop making judgments about me, based on what you THINK about libearals. You obviously don't know very much.
Your problem is that you have no tolerance, and listen to what other people tell you. How many liberals do you actually know in the real world? How many liberals do you have meaningful conversations with about politics? I would venture to guess that number is nil.
As for your comments about liberalism being reactionary: tell me, did the liberal movement of the 90's under Clinton fit the definition of reactionary? I think not. It may APPEAR that way today, because Democrats have no real power in the House or Senate. They have to be reactionary at the moment, because all of the branches of government are controlled by one party. When they cannot even submit a bill to get onto the agenda, they must REACT to what IS put on the agenda – only way to get across where they stand on that particular issue. Not even the vote to withdrawal troops back in November was a Democrat-sponsored bill, it was that of Duncun Hunter (R – CA). And if THAT whole charade doesn’t fit the bill of “reactionaryâ€, I don’t know what does.
How dare you label me in such a way? While I may be a liberal, I do have my own personal values. One of them is not negotiating with terrorists. I agree that I do not believe in a lot of what the President has done, but that was one issue I agreed with him upon.
And no, in a month I won't be arguing the other side of this issue. I didn't argue against how the Nick Berg case was handled, or any of the other hostage situations, so stop making judgments about me, based on what you THINK about libearals. You obviously don't know very much.
Your problem is that you have no tolerance, and listen to what other people tell you. How many liberals do you actually know in the real world? How many liberals do you have meaningful conversations with about politics? I would venture to guess that number is nil.
As for your comments about liberalism being reactionary: tell me, did the liberal movement of the 90's under Clinton fit the definition of reactionary? I think not. It may APPEAR that way today, because Democrats have no real power in the House or Senate. They have to be reactionary at the moment, because all of the branches of government are controlled by one party. When they cannot even submit a bill to get onto the agenda, they must REACT to what IS put on the agenda – only way to get across where they stand on that particular issue. Not even the vote to withdrawal troops back in November was a Democrat-sponsored bill, it was that of Duncun Hunter (R – CA). And if THAT whole charade doesn’t fit the bill of “reactionaryâ€, I don’t know what does.
Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 12:10 PM (L8cTI)
27
I'll try to put it into terms Market idolators will understand: a trader must understand her client/opponent's goals in his own terms, not hers. Telling the captors that killing this woman doesn't even make sense in their terms is very astute, since appeals that begin with "You're irrational monsters," don't work.
But many (not all) on the Right would rather avoid femmy/"traitorous" abilities like empathy and a-macho rationalism even if they'll work. I'd rather know how my opponents think and use it to my advantage, even if I have to figuratively wash my hands afterward---guess why I'm reading this site?
But many (not all) on the Right would rather avoid femmy/"traitorous" abilities like empathy and a-macho rationalism even if they'll work. I'd rather know how my opponents think and use it to my advantage, even if I have to figuratively wash my hands afterward---guess why I'm reading this site?
Posted by: Wesley Mooch-Crusher at January 19, 2006 12:11 PM (3cqm8)
28
I have never posted to a message board before. I always just sat back and watched liberals and conservatives bash each other and laugh. There's not anything here too incendiary, just more hate.
Like this, which is why I come to read these things, just priceless humor: "Liberalism is essentially suicidal in nature. Liberalism is like a biological WMD. It's just as likely to kill the user....", or even better: "They're ('libtards') idiots and should all be rounded up and done away with" - blah blah blah same old tired name calling mindlessness. Does anybody with a healthy political interest NOT template their thoughts to whatever party they ascribe to? Isn't it possible that both liberal and conservative viewpoints can both have validity. Or do you just read your talking points memo before you speak? I guess I'm looking in the wrong place for thoughtfull debate. Don't get me wrong, liberals have become as equally worthless as consertives. It's hard to see when your eyes are filled with so much hatred of Bush. As a matter of fact, I would find it pointless to even post on the leftist blogs I have read, as everybody cheerleads each other. But both sides are idealogically rigid, with no room for compromise. Both parties in Washington could give a shit about any of us. I guess the idea of a third party will never emerge, because there's too many sheep (trolls, as I have seen them called on both political teams' blogs) that don't, who can't, think for themselves. Too many stupid & divisive issues like this article exist solely for the purpose of delivering a blow to your political enemy. It seems the author of this cares more about hating Leftist Rhetoric, than if the hostage is actually released. And again, liberals are the same stupid way, so don't accuse me of a bleeding heart, I hate you both.
Like this, which is why I come to read these things, just priceless humor: "Liberalism is essentially suicidal in nature. Liberalism is like a biological WMD. It's just as likely to kill the user....", or even better: "They're ('libtards') idiots and should all be rounded up and done away with" - blah blah blah same old tired name calling mindlessness. Does anybody with a healthy political interest NOT template their thoughts to whatever party they ascribe to? Isn't it possible that both liberal and conservative viewpoints can both have validity. Or do you just read your talking points memo before you speak? I guess I'm looking in the wrong place for thoughtfull debate. Don't get me wrong, liberals have become as equally worthless as consertives. It's hard to see when your eyes are filled with so much hatred of Bush. As a matter of fact, I would find it pointless to even post on the leftist blogs I have read, as everybody cheerleads each other. But both sides are idealogically rigid, with no room for compromise. Both parties in Washington could give a shit about any of us. I guess the idea of a third party will never emerge, because there's too many sheep (trolls, as I have seen them called on both political teams' blogs) that don't, who can't, think for themselves. Too many stupid & divisive issues like this article exist solely for the purpose of delivering a blow to your political enemy. It seems the author of this cares more about hating Leftist Rhetoric, than if the hostage is actually released. And again, liberals are the same stupid way, so don't accuse me of a bleeding heart, I hate you both.
Posted by: logicland at January 19, 2006 12:17 PM (fpt7S)
29
Market Idolators? Now that is a new one! Its suppose to imply some kind of insight and wisdom ... instead, I fell out of my chair laughing!
I love this!
I love this!
Posted by: hondo at January 19, 2006 12:22 PM (3aakz)
30
>>>"terms Market idolators will understand:
lmao! clever. Kudos for that rare bit of humour and originality.
Unfortunately, when the Left tries to "understand" our enemies it's usually for the purposes of blaming America-- NOT for the purposes of defeating that enemy.
Janie,
I've been a Liberal all my life. You might call me an apostate of sorts. Which means I know you Libs better than you know youselves because I've had both the inside and outside view.
lmao! clever. Kudos for that rare bit of humour and originality.
Unfortunately, when the Left tries to "understand" our enemies it's usually for the purposes of blaming America-- NOT for the purposes of defeating that enemy.
Janie,
I've been a Liberal all my life. You might call me an apostate of sorts. Which means I know you Libs better than you know youselves because I've had both the inside and outside view.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 12:24 PM (8e/V4)
31
I love it! Since Republicans have controlled all three branches of government we have seen very creative ways to blame liberals for just about everything under the sun. keep up the creative work!
Im working on a piece about how the Evol Liberal Elite Hollywood B-Movie Actors Association of America (ELEHBMAA) is working with North Korea to create hyper-strains of Bird Flu to make George look bad. Will be posting on my blog soon!
Im working on a piece about how the Evol Liberal Elite Hollywood B-Movie Actors Association of America (ELEHBMAA) is working with North Korea to create hyper-strains of Bird Flu to make George look bad. Will be posting on my blog soon!
Posted by: liberul elite hippy commie at January 19, 2006 12:28 PM (YClF7)
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 12:31 PM (8e/V4)
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 12:35 PM (8e/V4)
34
Jesusland,
Ah, so you're the anti-David Brock. I know how the Neo-Cons work as well.
You know, I have NO problem with true Conservatives. I would probably vote for John McCain, or someone of the ilk of the 1950's Republicans.. the ones that actually stuck to their values, and didn't follow blindly, going against what the party stands for (you know, smaller government, low defecit, wars only out of necessity, etc.). It's the Neo-cons that I take issue with, as they have hijacked what was once a normal party.
I figured you were a formal liberal, since that's where the Neo-con movement started from. Try reading "Blinded By the Right", might give you even more insight.
But again, keep throwing around labels, when you have NO clue who I am or what I believe.. just proves that the neo-cons are the party of ignornace, since by beliefs are staring you right in the face.
Ah, so you're the anti-David Brock. I know how the Neo-Cons work as well.
You know, I have NO problem with true Conservatives. I would probably vote for John McCain, or someone of the ilk of the 1950's Republicans.. the ones that actually stuck to their values, and didn't follow blindly, going against what the party stands for (you know, smaller government, low defecit, wars only out of necessity, etc.). It's the Neo-cons that I take issue with, as they have hijacked what was once a normal party.
I figured you were a formal liberal, since that's where the Neo-con movement started from. Try reading "Blinded By the Right", might give you even more insight.
But again, keep throwing around labels, when you have NO clue who I am or what I believe.. just proves that the neo-cons are the party of ignornace, since by beliefs are staring you right in the face.
Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 12:36 PM (L8cTI)
35
JC
Admit it! You were a liberal in your youth for the same reason I was - Jenny Bronstein. Well, did you get any?
Admit it! You were a liberal in your youth for the same reason I was - Jenny Bronstein. Well, did you get any?
Posted by: hondo at January 19, 2006 12:43 PM (3aakz)
36
>>>You know, I have NO problem with true Conservatives.
Another attempt to play both sides against the bushian center.
When you're not attacking bush, the 50s Republicans were greedy penny-pinchers who hate the poor, as well as warmongering Cold Warriors-- BECAUSE they "stuck to their values", values you've spent the last 50+ years decrying.
But when you are attacking bush, you claim to love those values, and the 50s Republicans magically transform themselves in the "good time of Republicans", not today's neocons.
Whatever. You just proved my exact point.
Another attempt to play both sides against the bushian center.
When you're not attacking bush, the 50s Republicans were greedy penny-pinchers who hate the poor, as well as warmongering Cold Warriors-- BECAUSE they "stuck to their values", values you've spent the last 50+ years decrying.
But when you are attacking bush, you claim to love those values, and the 50s Republicans magically transform themselves in the "good time of Republicans", not today's neocons.
Whatever. You just proved my exact point.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 12:46 PM (8e/V4)
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 12:49 PM (8e/V4)
38
Well the U.S has said that detainees won't be released anytime soon. It's the Iraqi government that is bending over to the terrorists. Jill may very well die tomorrow unless the terrorists do like they did with the peacemaker team and just disappear without ever mentioning her fate.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 19, 2006 12:53 PM (5E0ex)
39
Jesusland,
Shows how much you know about the current political arena. Bush has run up the biggest deficit in our nation's history. He has also expanded the role of government, not reduced it. He also began a war on questionable pretenses.
I'm not trying to play the center of ANYTHING. This is what I believe. If you can't handle that someone within the Democratic Party differs from those that run the party, shows that you will follow WHATEVER the Republican Party does, no matter what YOUR personal values are.
And honey, I haven't spent the last 50+ years decrying anything... I'm 24 for Christ's sake.
And the Conservatives from yore were NOT what Bush is in anyway, shape or form. If you read history, you'd know that.
Besides, I said that I have NO problems with true conservatives, and that I'd probably vote for McCain. I didn't say I agree with every single thing they did, or EVERYTHING they believed. I look for what's right about EACH party before making a final decision. But again, you blindly follow, so you wouldn't understand what that's like.
Shows how much you know about the current political arena. Bush has run up the biggest deficit in our nation's history. He has also expanded the role of government, not reduced it. He also began a war on questionable pretenses.
I'm not trying to play the center of ANYTHING. This is what I believe. If you can't handle that someone within the Democratic Party differs from those that run the party, shows that you will follow WHATEVER the Republican Party does, no matter what YOUR personal values are.
And honey, I haven't spent the last 50+ years decrying anything... I'm 24 for Christ's sake.
And the Conservatives from yore were NOT what Bush is in anyway, shape or form. If you read history, you'd know that.
Besides, I said that I have NO problems with true conservatives, and that I'd probably vote for McCain. I didn't say I agree with every single thing they did, or EVERYTHING they believed. I look for what's right about EACH party before making a final decision. But again, you blindly follow, so you wouldn't understand what that's like.
Posted by: janie at January 19, 2006 01:17 PM (L8cTI)
40
Janie,
I know about Bush's deficits, and we conservatives have been quite vocal about our concern. But the complaints just sound hilarious coming from you Libs considering you've always loved deficits, and I have no doubt whatsoever that had Kerry won the deficits would be even higher-- and you'd be loving him for it. Something about "the poor", and the "starving children."
And that's great that you love McCain. I love Joe Lieberman. So what does that prove.
Having said that, I would agree that today's conservatives are not "50's conservatives." They're more like JFK Liberals, if anything. Which is what I am.
Today's Liberals, however, are not like their 50s counterparts either. You're just good ol fashion Leftists now. JFK would be APALLED.
I know about Bush's deficits, and we conservatives have been quite vocal about our concern. But the complaints just sound hilarious coming from you Libs considering you've always loved deficits, and I have no doubt whatsoever that had Kerry won the deficits would be even higher-- and you'd be loving him for it. Something about "the poor", and the "starving children."
And that's great that you love McCain. I love Joe Lieberman. So what does that prove.
Having said that, I would agree that today's conservatives are not "50's conservatives." They're more like JFK Liberals, if anything. Which is what I am.
Today's Liberals, however, are not like their 50s counterparts either. You're just good ol fashion Leftists now. JFK would be APALLED.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 01:29 PM (8e/V4)
Posted by: jomama at January 19, 2006 01:35 PM (pBKzg)
42
It's a dirty shame that you are picking apart the words of a worried and dismayed family and using them to make a point about how you imagine individuals may think about the many different people from different groups who are causing violence in Iraq.
It isn't philosophically sound.
It's barely thought-provoking.
It's sophomoric and naive.
It's unethical.
It's downright unfeeling.
It isn't philosophically sound.
It's barely thought-provoking.
It's sophomoric and naive.
It's unethical.
It's downright unfeeling.
Posted by: Jude at January 19, 2006 01:45 PM (bp7yd)
43
Libs love deficits??? LMAO! Tell that to Clinton who had one of the largest surpluses in history, and was promptly squandered by Bush!!!! Wow, you're priceless! Do you even believe what you're saying???
My first intoduction to a Democratic President was Clinton. His fiscal policy is what I want this current President to do, or the next Democrat President.
My first intoduction to a Democratic President was Clinton. His fiscal policy is what I want this current President to do, or the next Democrat President.
Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 01:57 PM (L8cTI)
44
>>>My first intoduction to a Democratic President was Clinton.
Then you're too young to know the difference. Dems have been running deficits since FDR. But it was for "the poor" and the "starving children" so it's all good.
Then you're too young to know the difference. Dems have been running deficits since FDR. But it was for "the poor" and the "starving children" so it's all good.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 02:02 PM (8e/V4)
45
moreover, Bush spends like a Liberal, so what are you complaining about. I can complain because conservatives have always objected to this kind of spending, but it's a joke from you Libs. Overspending is how you've bought your votes all these years.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 02:08 PM (8e/V4)
46
why am I asking you? I've already stated the reason: playing both sides against the middle.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 02:10 PM (8e/V4)
47
What's the deal here? This is someone's daughter, remember? That's just mad-dog disgusting that you'd go after her mom for appealing to terrorists at that time, liberal or otherwise. Let her make her appeal for her duaghter's life, for God's sake. She isn't some hard-assed army colonel. Enough of this posturing. It makes you look like a major a-hole and does nothing for the cause.
The terrorists would gladly have taken a southern baptist missionary hostage over one more liberal journalist anyway. They think we're all equally immoral, moreso perhaps if you're a good Christian. Can't blame the liberals for dividing the USA anymore...
The terrorists would gladly have taken a southern baptist missionary hostage over one more liberal journalist anyway. They think we're all equally immoral, moreso perhaps if you're a good Christian. Can't blame the liberals for dividing the USA anymore...
Posted by: greedo at January 19, 2006 02:16 PM (fDsCh)
48
1. Yes, I'm too young to remember the other's spending habits. But I am a history major, so what's your point? Just because I wasn't alive doesn't mean I don't know what happened before me. That's completely ignorant.
2. Bush spends like a liberal? Yeah, on tax cuts for the wealthy that are being financed by the Chinese. If there had to be that much money spent, yes, I would prefer it to be spent on a proper Medicare fund, unlike the one he put into place that's currently bankrupting the states.
2. Bush spends like a liberal? Yeah, on tax cuts for the wealthy that are being financed by the Chinese. If there had to be that much money spent, yes, I would prefer it to be spent on a proper Medicare fund, unlike the one he put into place that's currently bankrupting the states.
Posted by: Janie at January 19, 2006 02:17 PM (L8cTI)
49
You make some interesting points about an extreme side of liberalism - believing that reason will work with someone, even if they may be a danger to us and will never change.
I would like to point out an extreme side of conservatism - believing that everyone who agrees with your worldview is good, and that everyone disagrees with your worldview is at best damaged and at worst evil.
It is this worldview which I believe Bush and his administration have taken advantage of, and which has allowed him to continue to have some support, even in the face of persistent failure, deceit, and corruption.
I think you know, in your heart of hearts, that if Clinton had gotten the exact same results as Bush from his efforts, you would find Clinton's actions absolutely unacceptable. And you would be right to.
Let's all clear our eyes. I'll try to keep the beam out of mine, as a liberal; I ask you all to do the same as conservatives. Stop making excuses for Bush. He's a grown-up man.
I would like to point out an extreme side of conservatism - believing that everyone who agrees with your worldview is good, and that everyone disagrees with your worldview is at best damaged and at worst evil.
It is this worldview which I believe Bush and his administration have taken advantage of, and which has allowed him to continue to have some support, even in the face of persistent failure, deceit, and corruption.
I think you know, in your heart of hearts, that if Clinton had gotten the exact same results as Bush from his efforts, you would find Clinton's actions absolutely unacceptable. And you would be right to.
Let's all clear our eyes. I'll try to keep the beam out of mine, as a liberal; I ask you all to do the same as conservatives. Stop making excuses for Bush. He's a grown-up man.
Posted by: jim at January 19, 2006 02:27 PM (l+abj)
50
This tread was about jill, right? When I get confused I just watch.
Posted by: hondo at January 19, 2006 02:34 PM (3aakz)
51
Tax cuts for the wealthy? You mean the "wealthy"-- cause I got a tax cut and I ain't wealthy. The tax cuts took some 2 million low-income taxpayers off the tax roles entirely, so it’s hard to argue that working families didn’t get a financial benefit. But you Lefties continue to work as best aw you can around these facts. If you look at the CBO report yourself, you will indeed see that the total tax share by the richest 1 percent did declined modestly from 2001 to 2004. But that wasn’t because of the tax cut. It was because of the recession. When the economy contracts and incomes fall as they did in 2001 and 2002, tax payments by the wealthy fall the fastest. This is because of the progressive rate structure of the income tax. In other words, if everyone’s income falls by 10 percent, the overall percentage of taxes paid by the wealthy falls fastest, because they pay a higher marginal tax rate. But why am I telling you this. I'm working with facts, while you're operating from platitudes.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 02:37 PM (8e/V4)
52
I love all of the liberals here who think I am attacking them. You will notice I used the term "extreme Left" to describe those I am talking about and never "liberal". The two are in no ways interchangeable. If you are a liberal and have taken offense I would suggest that you reread the post--in which case you should take no offense--or are misinformed as to your own values and are not a "liberal". If you are an "extreme Leftist", as I wrote, then go to hell.
And to all the new readers who do not know the history of this website, please understand that this website is the foremost advocate for hostages on the web. We have HUNDREDS of posts about hostages being captured by terrorists in Iraq. So, we speak with some bit of authority on the subject rather than those who suddenly become concerned about hostages only when the MSM tells them to be. I trust you are concerned with Jill Carroll, as much as we are, but it would have been nice to hear from you as these people were murdering 12 Nepalese civilians (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/043601.php) or beheading Turks and Iraqis (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/044009.php).
So, please excuse us if it is difficult for us to take your protests seriously. The media and the extreme Left only seem to care when these hostages are their political allies. We have been advocating on their behalf regardless of their nationality or political affiliations for much, much longer.
And to all the new readers who do not know the history of this website, please understand that this website is the foremost advocate for hostages on the web. We have HUNDREDS of posts about hostages being captured by terrorists in Iraq. So, we speak with some bit of authority on the subject rather than those who suddenly become concerned about hostages only when the MSM tells them to be. I trust you are concerned with Jill Carroll, as much as we are, but it would have been nice to hear from you as these people were murdering 12 Nepalese civilians (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/043601.php) or beheading Turks and Iraqis (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/044009.php).
So, please excuse us if it is difficult for us to take your protests seriously. The media and the extreme Left only seem to care when these hostages are their political allies. We have been advocating on their behalf regardless of their nationality or political affiliations for much, much longer.
Posted by: Rusty at January 19, 2006 02:54 PM (JQjhA)
53
Exactly, where were you when Ronald Schulz and Jeffrey Ake's lifes were at stake? Ronald is dead and Jeffrey is still missing and presumed dead by the media.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 19, 2006 03:16 PM (5E0ex)
54
Jesusland carlos,
You're a hoot. The line about Bush spends like a liberal is one of the best I've seen on the blogs in years.
Hey everybody, JC thinks Bush is spending money hand over fist to help the poor and needy!!
Crack up.
And leave Janie alone. She already said she's not Ronald Reagan (doesn't negotiate with terrorists).
You're a hoot. The line about Bush spends like a liberal is one of the best I've seen on the blogs in years.
Hey everybody, JC thinks Bush is spending money hand over fist to help the poor and needy!!
Crack up.
And leave Janie alone. She already said she's not Ronald Reagan (doesn't negotiate with terrorists).
Posted by: Robert at January 19, 2006 03:24 PM (ByaZN)
55
No Jesusloon, I will not admit it. Can you possibly understand that it's not about labels and political parties and separating left and right, Liberals and Conservatives, which are one in the same corrupt, money loving government. You're proving my point that you're not worth a quality debate. You aren't able to see past red and blue. You obviously cannot imagine beyond your own reality. It's like dealing with a child. Honestly, what's your proof that any group is more 'wacky'? Your hard years of experience as great american liberal? How pathetic. Since you have supposedly been a Liberal all your life, and you constantly assail them, that means you hate yourself (if you were stating that as a joke, that you have the liberal 'inside' info, then your sense of humor is just not funny).
But I know what you're doing. You want me to defend an argument that plays into your hateful little hands, one that you argue every single day. I can see you goading people, and I fell into it. People like you exist to piss everyone else off. Anybody who classifies themselves as one thing or another is a fool. Toe the line politics is brainwashing. And when you state that a Liberal is this or that, you're playing that brainless game. How about this? Next time, instead of calling all liberals idiots, name particular bi-partisan idiots (there's plenty from all walks), and you might just gain some credibility.
God would be pissed that such a hateful person goes around sporting a jesus moniker.
But I know what you're doing. You want me to defend an argument that plays into your hateful little hands, one that you argue every single day. I can see you goading people, and I fell into it. People like you exist to piss everyone else off. Anybody who classifies themselves as one thing or another is a fool. Toe the line politics is brainwashing. And when you state that a Liberal is this or that, you're playing that brainless game. How about this? Next time, instead of calling all liberals idiots, name particular bi-partisan idiots (there's plenty from all walks), and you might just gain some credibility.
God would be pissed that such a hateful person goes around sporting a jesus moniker.
Posted by: logicland at January 19, 2006 03:26 PM (fpt7S)
56
>>>Hey everybody, JC thinks Bush is spending money hand over fist to help the poor and needy!!
Robert,
Bush's prescription drug program is the biggest social spending plan in 40 years. Hey everybody! What a hoot.
Robert,
Bush's prescription drug program is the biggest social spending plan in 40 years. Hey everybody! What a hoot.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 03:33 PM (8e/V4)
57
>>>Since you have supposedly been a Liberal all your life, and you constantly assail them, that means you hate yourself
logicland,
you need to change your name to moronland, seeing as logic doesn't appear to be your forte, to say the least. I'm no longer a Liberal-- but a conservative-- thus "hating" Liberals would actually mean I love myself.
All you've done in that extended rant is prove that you don't have to be a Liberal to be a total moron.
logicland,
you need to change your name to moronland, seeing as logic doesn't appear to be your forte, to say the least. I'm no longer a Liberal-- but a conservative-- thus "hating" Liberals would actually mean I love myself.
All you've done in that extended rant is prove that you don't have to be a Liberal to be a total moron.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 03:40 PM (8e/V4)
58
Jesusland,
if you think that the wealthiest 1%'s share of taxes decreased due to recession, you don't know what you are talking about. I don't mind conservatives, I just mind liars, and you are one. Further, the prescription drug benefit is not the biggest social spending plan in 40 years, not by a long shot. And more important, that spending goes to drug companies with only the slightest of help to the elderly. Again, Bush spends a lot, but it is handouts to defense contractors and drug companies. It is not traditinal social spending on porgrams that benefit the public, unless you argue trickle down. That is a huge distinction. pillaging medicare and welfare programs and burdening states while giving away money to drug and bomb makers can hardly be considered social spending. Why don't you get your highschool degree before you post like you have some education.
if you think that the wealthiest 1%'s share of taxes decreased due to recession, you don't know what you are talking about. I don't mind conservatives, I just mind liars, and you are one. Further, the prescription drug benefit is not the biggest social spending plan in 40 years, not by a long shot. And more important, that spending goes to drug companies with only the slightest of help to the elderly. Again, Bush spends a lot, but it is handouts to defense contractors and drug companies. It is not traditinal social spending on porgrams that benefit the public, unless you argue trickle down. That is a huge distinction. pillaging medicare and welfare programs and burdening states while giving away money to drug and bomb makers can hardly be considered social spending. Why don't you get your highschool degree before you post like you have some education.
Posted by: jomama at January 19, 2006 03:41 PM (pBKzg)
59
This is truly disgusting and your attempts to cloak yourself in prior advocacy is pathetic.
What you have done in this post can be judged on it's own merit and it has none.
You have taken the statements of a mother (whom you acknowledge has a right to try anything to try to secure the release of her daughter), and create a strawman of "extreme left" to argue against.
Well guess what you ass, she is a mom, not a senate minority whip or a repesentative of the "extreme left", and all the views you posit to argue against are unsupported by a citation to the holder. In other words, why should I take your view of what extreme left wing people think. In fact, why should I accept your view of anything, since you are just making it up as you go along. You dolt.
What you have done in this post can be judged on it's own merit and it has none.
You have taken the statements of a mother (whom you acknowledge has a right to try anything to try to secure the release of her daughter), and create a strawman of "extreme left" to argue against.
Well guess what you ass, she is a mom, not a senate minority whip or a repesentative of the "extreme left", and all the views you posit to argue against are unsupported by a citation to the holder. In other words, why should I take your view of what extreme left wing people think. In fact, why should I accept your view of anything, since you are just making it up as you go along. You dolt.
Posted by: Joe Chicago at January 19, 2006 03:41 PM (9+hGc)
Posted by: Robert at January 19, 2006 03:48 PM (ByaZN)
61
It seems unreasonable and exploitive to seize upon an appeal by a woman who is just trying to figure out how to say something, anything, that will carry some weight with her daughter's potential murderers--and then hold it up as some kind of exemplar of "Leftist rhetoric" to make a political point.
Posted by: trrll at January 19, 2006 03:50 PM (6ORla)
62
Oh, boy, here come the moonbat trolls. Go back to Kos and see if he says 'screw em' when he talks about Jill Carroll. That is his view on others who were captured and beheaded in Iraq. When you can give me a link or comment where you showed your concern for other hostages other than the Lefty variety, then come back. Otherwise all you trolls need to begone!
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 19, 2006 03:54 PM (rUyw4)
63
Jommama,
Platitudes. That's all we get from you Lefties. Statements of "fact" that aren't fact, no examples, no evidence, nothing. Oh, and accusations of "ignorance" and of being "liars". This isn't Kos.
If you know of a bigger social spending program in the last 40 years than Bush's prescription drug program, I'd be happy to hear about it. Otherwise SHUT YOUR YAPPERS.
Platitudes. That's all we get from you Lefties. Statements of "fact" that aren't fact, no examples, no evidence, nothing. Oh, and accusations of "ignorance" and of being "liars". This isn't Kos.
If you know of a bigger social spending program in the last 40 years than Bush's prescription drug program, I'd be happy to hear about it. Otherwise SHUT YOUR YAPPERS.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 03:56 PM (8e/V4)
64
"prescription drug program"
Which just goes to show Bush is wasting his time (and money) if he thinks spending like a liberal is going to get him any liberal votes.
Which just goes to show Bush is wasting his time (and money) if he thinks spending like a liberal is going to get him any liberal votes.
Posted by: dcb at January 19, 2006 04:27 PM (8e/V4)
65
crickets
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 04:29 PM (8e/V4)
66
Jesusland, you read two lines and called me moronland. Brilliant. Just like a little kid.
You're no longer a liberal, right, you've changed brains. Did you just put the 'conservative chip' in? Even your language - moonbat trolls - is so unoriginal, every political hack calls everyone else that.
You're clearly incapable of having an adult discussion. I'm beginning to think 'all your life' isn't all that long. Or your losing it - ....Must...stick...to....conservative....idealogies...
I guess we could sit around a call each other morons all day, but that's not worth it to me. So have a good ignorant life. The gene pool is shallow my friend, and you are flapping in the wind.
And you clearly you need to change the Jesusland title with all that hateful bile dribbling out of you.
You're no longer a liberal, right, you've changed brains. Did you just put the 'conservative chip' in? Even your language - moonbat trolls - is so unoriginal, every political hack calls everyone else that.
You're clearly incapable of having an adult discussion. I'm beginning to think 'all your life' isn't all that long. Or your losing it - ....Must...stick...to....conservative....idealogies...
I guess we could sit around a call each other morons all day, but that's not worth it to me. So have a good ignorant life. The gene pool is shallow my friend, and you are flapping in the wind.
And you clearly you need to change the Jesusland title with all that hateful bile dribbling out of you.
Posted by: logicland at January 19, 2006 04:38 PM (fpt7S)
67
moronland,
all I asked you if us conservatives were less wacky, and then you flamed me. So please don't talk to me about "adult discussions" and "hateful bile." It's clear I'm dealing with an idiot.
all I asked you if us conservatives were less wacky, and then you flamed me. So please don't talk to me about "adult discussions" and "hateful bile." It's clear I'm dealing with an idiot.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 04:49 PM (8e/V4)
68
jesusland,
Social security, Medicare, Medicaid and Interest payments on public debt all swarf the prescription drug program. Or did you mean NEW spending program. You might have had to finish highschool to understand how leaving out a single word can change the truth value of any statement. Now you may go back to being poor, uneducated and fearful.
Social security, Medicare, Medicaid and Interest payments on public debt all swarf the prescription drug program. Or did you mean NEW spending program. You might have had to finish highschool to understand how leaving out a single word can change the truth value of any statement. Now you may go back to being poor, uneducated and fearful.
Posted by: jomama at January 19, 2006 04:55 PM (pBKzg)
69
But taking Mrs. Carroll's words as an example of Leftist rhetoric, do you see how the underlying assumption is revealed? The insurgents would not kill Jill Carroll if they understood that she is a journalist on their side. The opposite, then, must be true: if Jill Carroll was a pro-war journalist then the natural course of events would be for the insurgents to kill her.
Argghhh!!! Jawa Report, you cannot take the modus tollens and then simply reverse the implication. For fuck's sake, learn some basic logic! Arrgghhh!
Argghhh!!! Jawa Report, you cannot take the modus tollens and then simply reverse the implication. For fuck's sake, learn some basic logic! Arrgghhh!
Posted by: elendil at January 19, 2006 05:01 PM (QrbjA)
70
Jommoma,
maybe you were playing hookie the day they taught us math because I said "the last 40 years", and Social Security goes back to the days of FDR. Do I need to count backwards for you?
Also, Medicaid was created just OVER 40 years ago in July of 1965, and the same goes for Medicare.
Like I said, bro, this isn't Kos. Thanks for playing though.
maybe you were playing hookie the day they taught us math because I said "the last 40 years", and Social Security goes back to the days of FDR. Do I need to count backwards for you?
Also, Medicaid was created just OVER 40 years ago in July of 1965, and the same goes for Medicare.
Like I said, bro, this isn't Kos. Thanks for playing though.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 05:03 PM (8e/V4)
Posted by: dcb at January 19, 2006 05:09 PM (8e/V4)
72
We can't?
Posted by: Howie at January 19, 2006 05:15 PM (D3+20)
73
Perhaps you should learn to read instead of playing 'gotcha' and 'take quotes out of context'.
I am not accusing her of being on the Left, but the same rhetoric comes from organizations such as The Christian Peacemakers team, Giuliana Sgrena's Il Manifesto, and murdered hostage Margaret Hassan's CAIR International--all on the Left....
Of course, if I were a relative of Jill Carroll I would be doing anything and everything to secure her release, even if that meant taking the "she's not your enemy" tactic (even if that meant paying ransom).
I am not accusing her of being on the Left, but the same rhetoric comes from organizations such as The Christian Peacemakers team, Giuliana Sgrena's Il Manifesto, and murdered hostage Margaret Hassan's CAIR International--all on the Left....
Of course, if I were a relative of Jill Carroll I would be doing anything and everything to secure her release, even if that meant taking the "she's not your enemy" tactic (even if that meant paying ransom).
Posted by: Rusty at January 19, 2006 05:27 PM (JQjhA)
74
Jesusland,
Go read your post. You should have said "new" or "created." Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid are all programs that have been active in the last 40 years, regardless of when they were created. You see the distinction? Probably not. Maybe you should finish highschool. And that says nothing of the fact that the precription drug plan benefits drug companies far more than the public. Why I even bother with poor, uneducated hicks like you from the heartland, I'll never know. Your religion and fear have damaged your brain.
Go read your post. You should have said "new" or "created." Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid are all programs that have been active in the last 40 years, regardless of when they were created. You see the distinction? Probably not. Maybe you should finish highschool. And that says nothing of the fact that the precription drug plan benefits drug companies far more than the public. Why I even bother with poor, uneducated hicks like you from the heartland, I'll never know. Your religion and fear have damaged your brain.
Posted by: jomama at January 19, 2006 05:28 PM (pBKzg)
75
I have updated the post to reflect the fact that I did not intend to attack Mrs. Carroll. I apologize if my words could have been read that way because of some amount of clumsiness.
Posted by: Rusty at January 19, 2006 05:37 PM (JQjhA)
76
So some of the people on the left are hypocratic - this is your headline? Mind blowing stuff really.
Rightos (the millions of them) never show an ounce of hypocrisy about anything, especially death.
So what did you teach us that we didn't already know? Oh right, you didn't give a shit about that, just pointing to the evil "other side". Everbody is capable of hypocrisy. This particular brand you describe is detestable, I agree, but instead of naming people who actually said these things, you intend on offending as many people as possible. So what's the point? With divisive people like this, there's no hope for any of us.
Rightos (the millions of them) never show an ounce of hypocrisy about anything, especially death.
So what did you teach us that we didn't already know? Oh right, you didn't give a shit about that, just pointing to the evil "other side". Everbody is capable of hypocrisy. This particular brand you describe is detestable, I agree, but instead of naming people who actually said these things, you intend on offending as many people as possible. So what's the point? With divisive people like this, there's no hope for any of us.
Posted by: floyd at January 19, 2006 06:19 PM (6KkLz)
77
jommoma,
Congrats. You win on a grammatical typo. Enjoy your thin gruel.
And yet, my statement that Bush spends like a Liberal still stands. hahaha!
dcb,
Bush can spend twice as much and it won't buy a single Liberal vote. It just brings out the Libs and their newfound concern for deficit spending.
Congrats. You win on a grammatical typo. Enjoy your thin gruel.
And yet, my statement that Bush spends like a Liberal still stands. hahaha!
dcb,
Bush can spend twice as much and it won't buy a single Liberal vote. It just brings out the Libs and their newfound concern for deficit spending.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 06:29 PM (8e/V4)
78
jesusland - you're only care is winning. your life must be sad.
Posted by: taoland at January 19, 2006 06:33 PM (6KkLz)
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 06:35 PM (8e/V4)
80
and you sound like a lost little boy, who's scared and strikes back at all who comes near. have a nice life in your hole.
Posted by: taoland at January 19, 2006 06:41 PM (6KkLz)
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 06:42 PM (8e/V4)
82
Jesusland,
Do you have another insult than troll, for christ's sake? I can see basically you're the only common post here throughout. What a loser.
Do you have another insult than troll, for christ's sake? I can see basically you're the only common post here throughout. What a loser.
Posted by: kundt at January 19, 2006 06:45 PM (6KkLz)
83
>>>"Do you have another insult than troll,"
how bout "you stupid cocksucker".
haha!
boy, you people are dopes.
how bout "you stupid cocksucker".
haha!
boy, you people are dopes.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 06:49 PM (8e/V4)
Posted by: kundt at January 19, 2006 06:54 PM (6KkLz)
85
>>>man, you're great. You take the bait every time.
I bet that's what you'd tell someone if he clocked you one and you were lying on the ground seeing stars. You MEANT for him to do that!!!
hahaha!
what a dope.
I bet that's what you'd tell someone if he clocked you one and you were lying on the ground seeing stars. You MEANT for him to do that!!!
hahaha!
what a dope.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 06:59 PM (8e/V4)
86
I'm sorry, how does that logic work? Oh that's right you're a jesus freak and don't follow logic. Ever heard of irony? Oh that's right you'll just follow the next post with an insult and hahaha, unable to realize what a fucking tool you are.
Posted by: kundt at January 19, 2006 07:06 PM (6KkLz)
87
>>>Ever heard of irony?
is THAT what it was? Oh, you Libs and your "irony." You see, I just thought it was plain ol fashion stupidity. I guess I got too much jaaaaaysus in my head!
And this one's for you: hahaha!
is THAT what it was? Oh, you Libs and your "irony." You see, I just thought it was plain ol fashion stupidity. I guess I got too much jaaaaaysus in my head!
And this one's for you: hahaha!
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 07:16 PM (8e/V4)
88
man, you never quit. this is much fun. i could do this all night. your a great preparation for all the assholes in this world that i have to deal with on a daily basis. i gotta rack my brain as to how fucking stupid a person has to be to come up with the responses you have. i bet your proud of yourself that as everyone else gets on with their life, like i'll be doing now, all you get is the last word on a message board. loser.
Posted by: kundt at January 19, 2006 07:47 PM (6KkLz)
89
omg, you sound like such a whiny little bitch. Trying to act all brave when it's obvious you're on the verge of tears. I bet you went home crying to mama. What a loser.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 19, 2006 08:12 PM (8e/V4)
90
"The insurgents would not kill her if they knew that she was a journalist on their side."
Why are you putting your own thoughts into Jill Carroll's mother's mouth? You're rephrasing the administration's now-abandoned mantra: "you're either with us or against us". Karen Hughes and her predecessors miserable ongoing "make-kissy-face" tour is all about trying to convince former allies and supporters around the world we never really meant that.
Jill Carroll reported on the reality in Iraq: our commanders wanting more troops, contrary to what Rummy tells us; the huge majority of Iraqis believing we don't care about their security and safety and wanting us to leave; Rumsfeld's ineptitude that has resulted in Iran calling the shots instead of us -- and you have to paint her as being "on [the insurgents'] side". The same spin the president has been selling for two years. But she HAS gotten on Rummy's "enemies" list. So, if her family did want to try and appeal to the insurgents on the basis of "the enemy of your enemy is your friend", you ought to just keep your pie hole closed.
You're a tough guy to talk trash about the family of a girl threatened with death. I admire you for your unflinching willingness to face her demise.
Why are you putting your own thoughts into Jill Carroll's mother's mouth? You're rephrasing the administration's now-abandoned mantra: "you're either with us or against us". Karen Hughes and her predecessors miserable ongoing "make-kissy-face" tour is all about trying to convince former allies and supporters around the world we never really meant that.
Jill Carroll reported on the reality in Iraq: our commanders wanting more troops, contrary to what Rummy tells us; the huge majority of Iraqis believing we don't care about their security and safety and wanting us to leave; Rumsfeld's ineptitude that has resulted in Iran calling the shots instead of us -- and you have to paint her as being "on [the insurgents'] side". The same spin the president has been selling for two years. But she HAS gotten on Rummy's "enemies" list. So, if her family did want to try and appeal to the insurgents on the basis of "the enemy of your enemy is your friend", you ought to just keep your pie hole closed.
You're a tough guy to talk trash about the family of a girl threatened with death. I admire you for your unflinching willingness to face her demise.
Posted by: Svejk at January 19, 2006 08:33 PM (m/Lj/)
91
Hey Svejk,
Thanks for the insight, one question? where were you as Rusty stated earlier on the hundreds of posts about people from Nepal/Iraq/Morocco/Sudan/Jordan/etc were kidnapped threatened with death from insurgents?
Nice of you to finally make an appearance, I think most of you are proving his point.
Thanks for the insight, one question? where were you as Rusty stated earlier on the hundreds of posts about people from Nepal/Iraq/Morocco/Sudan/Jordan/etc were kidnapped threatened with death from insurgents?
Nice of you to finally make an appearance, I think most of you are proving his point.
Posted by: dave at January 19, 2006 08:49 PM (CcXvt)
92
"Karen Hughes and her predecessors miserable ongoing "make-kissy-face" tour is all about trying to convince former allies and supporters around the world we never really meant that."
Now who's putting words in other people's mouth.
Now who's putting words in other people's mouth.
Posted by: dcb at January 19, 2006 08:53 PM (8e/V4)
93
Rusty you're an idiot. The woman is appealing for the release of her daughter and I imagine she'd say anything she thinks would work. The idea that her appeal reveals something about "the left" is just stupid.
Posted by: mike at January 19, 2006 09:01 PM (1tVHw)
94
Why don't you dumb asses read what Rusty said? Every bit of it. Damn, you're stupid. Just read what Rusty said. He is not criticizing the family at all, and sympathizes with their plight. He even says he would do the same thing, as any of us would if it were our family member that was a hostage of these animals.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 19, 2006 10:25 PM (rUyw4)
95
Jill is a journalist; neutral. She doesn't deserve to be harmed in any way.
Prayers going out for her.
This blog by the "Dr" makes me ill.
Terrorists are losing this battle. They will be crushed in the long run. And, if anything bad happens to Jill, let the Coalition send a wave of pain over the terrorist cowards.
Prayers going out for her.
This blog by the "Dr" makes me ill.
Terrorists are losing this battle. They will be crushed in the long run. And, if anything bad happens to Jill, let the Coalition send a wave of pain over the terrorist cowards.
Posted by: Jackie at January 20, 2006 12:08 AM (0o9Js)
96
As a friend of Jill Carroll, and someone who just stumbled across this piece of crap blog trying to find information, I have to say this: fuck you.
To turn this into a political football demeans not only the situation but what her family and friends are going through. This is an amazing woman, someone whose strength and intelligence you couldn't even imagine. And to sit here and talk the absolute bullshit that you are... well, karma's gonna be a bitch. I can only hope.
You hide behind your stupid fucking stage names and make jokes and remove yourself from the situation. You hold Jill's mother as an example of the left or the "extreme left" or whatever and it disgusts me. These terrorists are a bunch of cowards, hiding in anonymity and taking advantage of a female journalist, putting her family through hell. But you guys aren't like that, no. That sounds nothing like your modus operandi. Do not hold the Carroll family up as some metaphor for your imaginary enemies. And I'm not misunderstanding you: you'd do the same thing if you were in Mrs. Carroll's shoes. But then you'd be robbed of the golden opportunity to bitch about the media and liberals and homosexuals and whatever retarded tangent your mind takes you to.
I can't believe I have to answer back to a bunch of unthinking idealogues spouting bullshit on a page based around Star Wars. (Good luck at the Dungeons and Dragons tournament.) But it's just too much. You're all a bunch of heroes. Really. Honestly, I can't understand these terrorists for the life of me. I can't understand you any more. And I vote in the same elections as you.
I appreciate everyone who's stood up for Jill and what her family is going through. To the rest of you, I wish you'd say it to my face instead of starting pissing matches online.
To turn this into a political football demeans not only the situation but what her family and friends are going through. This is an amazing woman, someone whose strength and intelligence you couldn't even imagine. And to sit here and talk the absolute bullshit that you are... well, karma's gonna be a bitch. I can only hope.
You hide behind your stupid fucking stage names and make jokes and remove yourself from the situation. You hold Jill's mother as an example of the left or the "extreme left" or whatever and it disgusts me. These terrorists are a bunch of cowards, hiding in anonymity and taking advantage of a female journalist, putting her family through hell. But you guys aren't like that, no. That sounds nothing like your modus operandi. Do not hold the Carroll family up as some metaphor for your imaginary enemies. And I'm not misunderstanding you: you'd do the same thing if you were in Mrs. Carroll's shoes. But then you'd be robbed of the golden opportunity to bitch about the media and liberals and homosexuals and whatever retarded tangent your mind takes you to.
I can't believe I have to answer back to a bunch of unthinking idealogues spouting bullshit on a page based around Star Wars. (Good luck at the Dungeons and Dragons tournament.) But it's just too much. You're all a bunch of heroes. Really. Honestly, I can't understand these terrorists for the life of me. I can't understand you any more. And I vote in the same elections as you.
I appreciate everyone who's stood up for Jill and what her family is going through. To the rest of you, I wish you'd say it to my face instead of starting pissing matches online.
Posted by: Michael at January 20, 2006 12:16 AM (byT59)
97
You'd think from the hysterical rant above that Rusty had said "fuck em" or something. But unlike the Leftwing scumbag Marcos Zuniga, who actually cheered when American contractors were dismembered and burned, Rusty actually is quite clear about how unfortunate this entire situation is. And Rusty's point is valid, even if you're emotional proximity renders you unable to see it. This woman's appeal is a reflection of a larger issue. Care to address it? If not, we'll understand.
Posted by: dcb at January 20, 2006 12:47 AM (8e/V4)
98
As a liberal, naturally I have a lot of sympathy for terrorists. The best way to solve problems is through violence and force, not through vigorous negotiation and politics. Because I'm a vegetarian, I fully understand their willingness to burn American mercenar...excuse me, contractors and behead captors. Because I'm a believer in separation of church and state, I fully sympathize with al Qaeda's goal to "restore" the caliphate, institute Sharia and drive Islamic infidels like Saddam from power.
I'm glad to see that the rightwing fully understands the situation in the Middle East and is capable of recognizing that bin Ladenism equals support for gay marriage, affirmative action, privacy, and a United States so weakened it actually feels honor bound to abide by agreements it signed.
I'm glad to see that the rightwing fully understands the situation in the Middle East and is capable of recognizing that bin Ladenism equals support for gay marriage, affirmative action, privacy, and a United States so weakened it actually feels honor bound to abide by agreements it signed.
Posted by: tristero at January 20, 2006 08:16 AM (Ea1SS)
99
You commie liberal morons are alot of the reason this propblem has not been solved .... it should have been dealt with when the first US hostages were murdered by these animals.
I will say it again ... in hopes that Mr Bush is reading. Pull our civilians out of there and DEAL with the situation. Deal with these fanatical idiots ... HARSHLY once and for all.
We are fighting enemies we cannot see. They will not stand up and fight us like men. These cowards deserve no sympathy from us, and they certainly do not deserve any respect.
Wake up!!!
I will say it again ... in hopes that Mr Bush is reading. Pull our civilians out of there and DEAL with the situation. Deal with these fanatical idiots ... HARSHLY once and for all.
We are fighting enemies we cannot see. They will not stand up and fight us like men. These cowards deserve no sympathy from us, and they certainly do not deserve any respect.
Wake up!!!
Posted by: Dee at January 20, 2006 08:39 AM (HUims)
100
Jill Carroll is a foreign correspondent, trying with a great deal of courage to cover the news. She has put herself into a dangerous place to write for one of the most respected publications in the United States so that people can gain some insight into what is going on in Iraq. She is not an ideological football. She may well be doomed. That is sad. I have spent more years than I would like to think about myself as staff correspondent for international publications in a lot of countries in Asia. There are very few among us whom I have met who are seeking to advance an agenda. We are in the countries we work in because we are seeking to understand, sometimes in great danger, what drives them, and to relate what we have learned to the world. Bloggers seem content to sit in their undershirts, drinking Pepsi through straws, trolling the internet to confirm their prejudices. Jill Carroll does not appear to be that kind of person. She is a journalist in the best sense of the word. I hope she is not dead.
Posted by: John Berthelsen at January 20, 2006 08:47 AM (hOPt7)
101
John,
that sounded almost like a eulogy. Very touching. But I don't see any comments on this blog that might suggest Ms. Carroll isn't/wasn't possibly the finest human being that ever lived.
But the issue is not Jill Carroll, but her mom's comments. Care to address the substance of the post? That was a rhetorical question obviously. Rusty's post nails you people to the wall, so instead we get all the faux outrage and touching eulogies.
that sounded almost like a eulogy. Very touching. But I don't see any comments on this blog that might suggest Ms. Carroll isn't/wasn't possibly the finest human being that ever lived.
But the issue is not Jill Carroll, but her mom's comments. Care to address the substance of the post? That was a rhetorical question obviously. Rusty's post nails you people to the wall, so instead we get all the faux outrage and touching eulogies.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 09:13 AM (8e/V4)
102
"Enemy of Iraq" could mean so many things that it's essentially an empty phrase. Does it mean one who is against the insurgency? Or one who is against the average Iraqis who strive to live in a peaceful democracy?
Rusty's post seems to assume the former; I'm not sure the mother wasn't talking about the latter w/r/t her daughter. She says that her daughter loves the Iraqi people (whom we are trying to secure and liberate); Rusty interprets that to mean that her mother is telling the insurgents that her daughter is somehow "on their side." And even if that weren't the case, the phrase "enemy of Iraq" is still so vague as to make it impossible to infer subtext from the mother's statement and draw a corollary from it.
Personally, I think when the mother said that Jill was not an "enemy of Iraq," she meant exactly what Rusty said: "she is a human being who poses no immediate threat to [the insurgents'] safety." It does not necessarily mean she was telling the insurgents that Jill is on their side.
Rusty's post seems to assume the former; I'm not sure the mother wasn't talking about the latter w/r/t her daughter. She says that her daughter loves the Iraqi people (whom we are trying to secure and liberate); Rusty interprets that to mean that her mother is telling the insurgents that her daughter is somehow "on their side." And even if that weren't the case, the phrase "enemy of Iraq" is still so vague as to make it impossible to infer subtext from the mother's statement and draw a corollary from it.
Personally, I think when the mother said that Jill was not an "enemy of Iraq," she meant exactly what Rusty said: "she is a human being who poses no immediate threat to [the insurgents'] safety." It does not necessarily mean she was telling the insurgents that Jill is on their side.
Posted by: Ryan at January 20, 2006 09:54 AM (2TKeV)
103
Another fine example of conservatives conflating insurgents and terrorists for the purpose of ridding the world of refined thinking.
Also a disservice to Jawas everywhere.
Also a disservice to Jawas everywhere.
Posted by: Necromancer at January 20, 2006 09:59 AM (fcGkj)
104
Fine, here it goes. Mrs. Carroll's comments reveal nothing about the left or right. It reveals a woman who is trying to do everything she can to get her child back. She's not going to say how she's going to kill them all.
To make a leap from her cry for mercy to supposed blindness on the left is as disconnected, illogical, and insensitive as me trying to compare your navel-gazing, arrogant writing to the reason why conservatives haven't cured cancer yet. The substance of the post is ridiculous and it nails no one to a wall.
To make a leap from her cry for mercy to supposed blindness on the left is as disconnected, illogical, and insensitive as me trying to compare your navel-gazing, arrogant writing to the reason why conservatives haven't cured cancer yet. The substance of the post is ridiculous and it nails no one to a wall.
Posted by: Michael at January 20, 2006 10:00 AM (cQv/5)
105
>>>Personally, I think when the mother said that Jill was not an "enemy of Iraq," she meant exactly what Rusty said: "she is a human being who poses no immediate threat to [the insurgents'] safety." It does not necessarily mean she was telling the insurgents that Jill is on their side.
Finally one single solitary courageous Lefty takes up the challenge! Hat's off to you, Ryan.
And yet even assuming that what you say is true, and given the wording of her appeal, then Mrs. Carroll would also have to be implying that the terrorist kidnappers themselves aren't enemies of Iraq. Feel me so far? And by logical extension, therefore, she's implying that our troops and the elected government of Iraq IS the enemy of Iraq.
Her only out (and yours) is to argue that everybody killing each other over there is a friend of Iraq-- just in their own different ways. But that pretty much puts you back in the terror symp camp all over again. It's a conundrum.
Finally one single solitary courageous Lefty takes up the challenge! Hat's off to you, Ryan.
And yet even assuming that what you say is true, and given the wording of her appeal, then Mrs. Carroll would also have to be implying that the terrorist kidnappers themselves aren't enemies of Iraq. Feel me so far? And by logical extension, therefore, she's implying that our troops and the elected government of Iraq IS the enemy of Iraq.
Her only out (and yours) is to argue that everybody killing each other over there is a friend of Iraq-- just in their own different ways. But that pretty much puts you back in the terror symp camp all over again. It's a conundrum.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 10:05 AM (8e/V4)
106
J.C. - I'm having trouble highlighting text, so I'll just respond without quoting what you wrote.
I see what you're saying... without delving into the thick forest that is trying to determine the meaning of the phrase "enemy of Iraq," I would say that logically speaking, you are correct - in saying that her daughter is not an enemy to Iraq, the mom is implying that the insurgents are also not enemies of Iraq.
My response to that takes us out of the realm of cold logic to a much more basic place - it appears she's telling the insurgents what they want to hear. Or not necessarily what they want to hear, but something which might appeal to whatever humanity still lies within them. Since she's speaking to the insurgents, it really doesn't matter what you or I think "enemy of Iraq" means - it's about what the insurgents think it means, and whether or not it's enough to free her daughter.
Like Rusty said, I think any of us would say *anything* in order to free one of our children from such a situation. It does not necessarily mean she truly believes that the insurgents are friends to Iraq, and/or that our troops are its true enemies. Accordingly, it really doesn't make the phrase "enemy of Iraq" any less empty, at least for the purposes of inferring and deriving the respective philosophies of the left or right w/r/t the GWOT and/or Iraq.
I see what you're saying... without delving into the thick forest that is trying to determine the meaning of the phrase "enemy of Iraq," I would say that logically speaking, you are correct - in saying that her daughter is not an enemy to Iraq, the mom is implying that the insurgents are also not enemies of Iraq.
My response to that takes us out of the realm of cold logic to a much more basic place - it appears she's telling the insurgents what they want to hear. Or not necessarily what they want to hear, but something which might appeal to whatever humanity still lies within them. Since she's speaking to the insurgents, it really doesn't matter what you or I think "enemy of Iraq" means - it's about what the insurgents think it means, and whether or not it's enough to free her daughter.
Like Rusty said, I think any of us would say *anything* in order to free one of our children from such a situation. It does not necessarily mean she truly believes that the insurgents are friends to Iraq, and/or that our troops are its true enemies. Accordingly, it really doesn't make the phrase "enemy of Iraq" any less empty, at least for the purposes of inferring and deriving the respective philosophies of the left or right w/r/t the GWOT and/or Iraq.
Posted by: Ryan at January 20, 2006 10:21 AM (2TKeV)
107
Ryan,
I too would say whatever it took to get my daughter released. And that's why Rusty isn't really jumping down the lady's throat about it. He's using her comments as metaphor, and he explains how far better than I could. I don't think that means we're using their plight as a "political football." But this is happenning in a larger context, and I think it's ok to talk about that.
I too would say whatever it took to get my daughter released. And that's why Rusty isn't really jumping down the lady's throat about it. He's using her comments as metaphor, and he explains how far better than I could. I don't think that means we're using their plight as a "political football." But this is happenning in a larger context, and I think it's ok to talk about that.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 10:43 AM (8e/V4)
108
>>>Another fine example of conservatives conflating insurgents and terrorists
From the look of it, Jill Carrol and her mom are pretty terrorized.
From the look of it, Jill Carrol and her mom are pretty terrorized.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 11:02 AM (8e/V4)
109
Jesusland,
You people are so rabidly right-wing that you see conspiracy everywhere.
The woman was just trying to appeal to whatever humanity the kidnappers have left.
She certainly did not say that her daughter was on the side of the insurgents/terrorists.
For you to read that in her words indicates how sick and depraved your mind really is.
You people are so rabidly right-wing that you see conspiracy everywhere.
The woman was just trying to appeal to whatever humanity the kidnappers have left.
She certainly did not say that her daughter was on the side of the insurgents/terrorists.
For you to read that in her words indicates how sick and depraved your mind really is.
Posted by: Devil's Advocate at January 20, 2006 11:21 AM (jNXzj)
110
Devil,
maybe you should look up the word "conspiracy", and go back to high school and touch up on your reading comprehension skills.
maybe you should look up the word "conspiracy", and go back to high school and touch up on your reading comprehension skills.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 11:39 AM (8e/V4)
111
jesusland
The "metaphor" dodge is pretty lame. If his argument really had any validity at all, he shouldn't have had any difficulty finding an example that would make his point without exploiting the plight of a woman desperately trying to find some kind--any kind--of argument that might save her daughter's life.
The "metaphor" dodge is pretty lame. If his argument really had any validity at all, he shouldn't have had any difficulty finding an example that would make his point without exploiting the plight of a woman desperately trying to find some kind--any kind--of argument that might save her daughter's life.
Posted by: trrll at January 20, 2006 03:25 PM (6ORla)
112
Negotiate with Terrorists? That sounds familiar.
Reminds my of those days in the 80's when the famous leftist Ronald Reagan negotiated with terrorists on several occasions.
That list of terrorists would include Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Ladin, amongst many others in the middle east.
Remember the Iranian Hostages? Terry Waite? All of them returned with Ronnie Reagan negotiation$.
"You're doing a heck of a job, Rummy." -Saddam Hussein (translated from Arabic to Republican)
bok bok Chicken Hawks
(nice post by Michael - I second it)
Reminds my of those days in the 80's when the famous leftist Ronald Reagan negotiated with terrorists on several occasions.
That list of terrorists would include Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Ladin, amongst many others in the middle east.
Remember the Iranian Hostages? Terry Waite? All of them returned with Ronnie Reagan negotiation$.
"You're doing a heck of a job, Rummy." -Saddam Hussein (translated from Arabic to Republican)
bok bok Chicken Hawks
(nice post by Michael - I second it)
Posted by: Lars Gruber at January 20, 2006 05:43 PM (NXi5I)
113
Lars,
you're an idiot. You don't can't even tell the difference between a terrorist and a dictator. No matter, as long as you can make your idiotic point.
See, as despicable as Saddam is, he isn't a terrorist. He's a dictator. Ditto the Iranians.
Regarding your Osama crack, he's Jimmy Carter's creating. Learn your history.
you're an idiot. You don't can't even tell the difference between a terrorist and a dictator. No matter, as long as you can make your idiotic point.
See, as despicable as Saddam is, he isn't a terrorist. He's a dictator. Ditto the Iranians.
Regarding your Osama crack, he's Jimmy Carter's creating. Learn your history.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 06:17 PM (8e/V4)
114
40 years a military dependent-former Republican
Dad was a nuke spook/former spouse Special Warfare-
May I suggest that any and all progressive, thinking Americans (OK, liberal to you facist types) who are wasting time on these type of blogs and NOT getting up OFF THE COUCH to really change things, please do so now.
This whole blogging thing is wonderful if we the living, who know change is critical for America's health and the declaration of victory in Iraq, are also OUT IN PERSON, Kay?
Please spend time away from your keyboards to share your rational observations and solutions beyond the privacy of your own home office or wherever.
If the thugs in DC don't see us in person, we don't really exist. Remember how easily the 2004 Election was hijacked by Diebold Corporation. What was said in the blogosphere changed nothing...
Dad was a nuke spook/former spouse Special Warfare-
May I suggest that any and all progressive, thinking Americans (OK, liberal to you facist types) who are wasting time on these type of blogs and NOT getting up OFF THE COUCH to really change things, please do so now.
This whole blogging thing is wonderful if we the living, who know change is critical for America's health and the declaration of victory in Iraq, are also OUT IN PERSON, Kay?
Please spend time away from your keyboards to share your rational observations and solutions beyond the privacy of your own home office or wherever.
If the thugs in DC don't see us in person, we don't really exist. Remember how easily the 2004 Election was hijacked by Diebold Corporation. What was said in the blogosphere changed nothing...
Posted by: ANNE GABRIEL at January 20, 2006 07:00 PM (eg8Dg)
115
"If the thugs in DC don't see us in person, we don't really exist."
Even when they see you in person they don't really care. They know you aren't going to vote for them no matter what, plus they like the occassional freak shows you put on display for regular folks. It only makes them stronger.
Even when they see you in person they don't really care. They know you aren't going to vote for them no matter what, plus they like the occassional freak shows you put on display for regular folks. It only makes them stronger.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 20, 2006 08:11 PM (8e/V4)
116
"Remember how the 2004 elections were hijacked by Diebold Corporation"
And some of you libs accused us of being conspiracy prone. Now that's a good one, just as I heard today where more Demothugs PLEAD GUILTY TO VOTING FRAUD.
And some of you libs accused us of being conspiracy prone. Now that's a good one, just as I heard today where more Demothugs PLEAD GUILTY TO VOTING FRAUD.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 20, 2006 08:39 PM (rUyw4)
117
You do know that all countries who say they don't negociate with terrorists actually do negociate, right? Even Israel.
Posted by: Sirkowski at January 21, 2006 05:39 AM (KKR9m)
118
Jesusland is a moronic, ignorant, and bigoted fundie. He is also clinically paranoid like all extreme right-wingers. Let's ignore him. There is no point responding to the lurid muck he spews on a regular basis.
Posted by: Devil's Advocate at January 21, 2006 08:29 AM (ImpfT)
119
Anyone who criticizes the parents of this poor young woman is sick. The family is doing anything and everything they can to secure the safety of their child. You, I, and anyone else would do the same. Any normal parent would walk on hot coals for their children.
I would imagine both parents had some help on what might be helpful to say from US and perhaps Iraqi officials as well, as the wrong response could likely inflame these fanatics rather than soften them.
I believe one Jawa poster is correct on the point that releasing Ms Carroll has to benefit them in some way, otherwise it is not likely to happen. If she is harmed, I still call for Mr Bush to unleash our full potential on these people.
We are sick of being held powerless by the aclu and other liberal morons. If anyone doesn't agree, they need to be prepared for kidnap and torture right here in our own neighbourhoods, because it WILL happen.
All liberals - Sit down and shut up!
I would imagine both parents had some help on what might be helpful to say from US and perhaps Iraqi officials as well, as the wrong response could likely inflame these fanatics rather than soften them.
I believe one Jawa poster is correct on the point that releasing Ms Carroll has to benefit them in some way, otherwise it is not likely to happen. If she is harmed, I still call for Mr Bush to unleash our full potential on these people.
We are sick of being held powerless by the aclu and other liberal morons. If anyone doesn't agree, they need to be prepared for kidnap and torture right here in our own neighbourhoods, because it WILL happen.
All liberals - Sit down and shut up!
Posted by: Dee at January 21, 2006 08:45 AM (HUims)
120
Dee,
Did you mistake this blog for a liberal blog?
Read the main piece: it's a rightnut, paranoid, rant, implying somehow that Mrs Carroll's words show sympathy for the kidnappers.
As for you, poor extreme right-wing victims of the ACLU and the "Left" (whatever that term means), I do not feel your pain.
It is us, true conservatives (you know, the ones who believe in fiscal responsibility and in keeping the government out of our homes and lives) who are hostages of the right-wing radicals who are running this country into a ditch.
So, sit down, Dee, and shut the fuck up!
Did you mistake this blog for a liberal blog?
Read the main piece: it's a rightnut, paranoid, rant, implying somehow that Mrs Carroll's words show sympathy for the kidnappers.
As for you, poor extreme right-wing victims of the ACLU and the "Left" (whatever that term means), I do not feel your pain.
It is us, true conservatives (you know, the ones who believe in fiscal responsibility and in keeping the government out of our homes and lives) who are hostages of the right-wing radicals who are running this country into a ditch.
So, sit down, Dee, and shut the fuck up!
Posted by: Devil's Advocate at January 21, 2006 09:31 AM (NvhA8)
121
Dee,
you're a bigger moron than even Devils advocate. Nobody has criticized the parents of this woman. Can't you people READ? Is it really possible you're really this stupid? Or is it just hippie laziness. No wonder you hippies all end up working at Tower records.
you're a bigger moron than even Devils advocate. Nobody has criticized the parents of this woman. Can't you people READ? Is it really possible you're really this stupid? Or is it just hippie laziness. No wonder you hippies all end up working at Tower records.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 09:35 AM (8e/V4)
122
Jesus-ass is stuck in a time warp. Hippies went out of fashion a long time ago.
And yes, his dumb head is firmly stuck up his ugly ass.
And yes, his dumb head is firmly stuck up his ugly ass.
Posted by: Evil Progressive at January 21, 2006 09:47 AM (NvhA8)
123
The ones that aren't stupid hippies are hippie wannabes. That's why you spend your time protesting and blocking traffic and lying in the street pretending to be "dead" while the rest of us are being productive citizens, and actually WORKING. Get a job, loser.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 09:57 AM (8e/V4)
124
Jesus-kook, I bet you are a NASCAR fan, and that you have never read a book in your entire pathetic life.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I have better than a job, I actually have a career. And I do not lie on the streets: the ground is too dirty. I would not want to ruin my expensive clothes.
Again, hippies went out of fashion thirty some years ago. Join the 21st century!
Got your head out of your pimply butt, yet?
Sorry to disappoint you, but I have better than a job, I actually have a career. And I do not lie on the streets: the ground is too dirty. I would not want to ruin my expensive clothes.
Again, hippies went out of fashion thirty some years ago. Join the 21st century!
Got your head out of your pimply butt, yet?
Posted by: Evil Progressive at January 21, 2006 10:34 AM (h2HXW)
125
I forgot to tell you, Jesus-six-pack-Joe that I am one of these elitist intellectual, who lives in Manhattan (New York not Kansas), frequents the opera, loves art movies, drinks good wines, and speaks fluent French.
Now, I picture you as a beer-bellied slob, who speaks in tongues in front of hysterical audiences in some backward church somewhere in the heartland where people are so dumb that they do not believe in science (not that they would recognize it if it bit them in the ass). I bet you watch nothing but Faux News and that you listen to fat druggie Limbaugh. I bet that you have never been outside of the U.S. and that you are totally ignorant of the ways of the world.
In other words, like most of the morons who believe in Bush, you are just white trash.
Have a nice weekend.
Now, I picture you as a beer-bellied slob, who speaks in tongues in front of hysterical audiences in some backward church somewhere in the heartland where people are so dumb that they do not believe in science (not that they would recognize it if it bit them in the ass). I bet you watch nothing but Faux News and that you listen to fat druggie Limbaugh. I bet that you have never been outside of the U.S. and that you are totally ignorant of the ways of the world.
In other words, like most of the morons who believe in Bush, you are just white trash.
Have a nice weekend.
Posted by: Evil Progressive at January 21, 2006 10:44 AM (h2HXW)
126
Evil,
never seen NASCAR, but I don't have a problem with it. Do you? Why? Is being a self-superior elitist snot a requirement for you Libs? As far as my edumacation, I could tell you, but that would only make me as big an elitist snot as you.
never seen NASCAR, but I don't have a problem with it. Do you? Why? Is being a self-superior elitist snot a requirement for you Libs? As far as my edumacation, I could tell you, but that would only make me as big an elitist snot as you.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 10:47 AM (8e/V4)
127
>>>I bet that you have never been outside of the U.S.
hahaha! that's the best one yet. I've travelled on four continents and lived on three. I grew up overseas, you fucking idiot. You can't even CONCEIVE of a life like mine. That's my one concession to your Liberal elitist contest-- which you would LOSE hands down if I deigned to keep playing it with you. You, on the other hand, think yourself a world beater because of your one semester abroad to Costa Rica. Wow! impressive! Shocking!
hahaha! that's the best one yet. I've travelled on four continents and lived on three. I grew up overseas, you fucking idiot. You can't even CONCEIVE of a life like mine. That's my one concession to your Liberal elitist contest-- which you would LOSE hands down if I deigned to keep playing it with you. You, on the other hand, think yourself a world beater because of your one semester abroad to Costa Rica. Wow! impressive! Shocking!
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 11:14 AM (8e/V4)
128
"edumacation"?
"A semester in Costa Rica"? Where did I write this? Are you on drugs in addition to being stupid, or have you missed your daily dose of anti-psychotic medication?
Again, have a nice weekend in your backward, unsophisticated, stultifying, mediocre, world.
I am off to pursue some elitist interests with my elitist friends in my elitist city.
"A semester in Costa Rica"? Where did I write this? Are you on drugs in addition to being stupid, or have you missed your daily dose of anti-psychotic medication?
Again, have a nice weekend in your backward, unsophisticated, stultifying, mediocre, world.
I am off to pursue some elitist interests with my elitist friends in my elitist city.
Posted by: Evil Progressive at January 21, 2006 11:41 AM (NvhA8)
129
>>>"edumacation"? "A semester in Costa Rica"? Where did I write this?
Oh, I don't know. Where did I write Rush Limbaugh and NASCAR?
Boy, you people are dopes.
Oh, I don't know. Where did I write Rush Limbaugh and NASCAR?
Boy, you people are dopes.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 11:48 AM (8e/V4)
130
>>>unsophisticated
Most Libs only play at being "sophisticated." I've hung around Libs all my life, so I know. And I can assure you--also having hung around with sophisticated people all my life in my years overseas-- that they don't go around trying to prove how sophisticated they are. The more you try to prove it, the more of a wannabe you are. You're little more than a nameless, faceless, wage slave apartment-dweller in some disease-infested blue city who blames "the Man" for your sorry plight, and who pays so much just to live in that city that you've got nothing left with which to pursue your "elitist interests." Wishful thinking.
Most Libs only play at being "sophisticated." I've hung around Libs all my life, so I know. And I can assure you--also having hung around with sophisticated people all my life in my years overseas-- that they don't go around trying to prove how sophisticated they are. The more you try to prove it, the more of a wannabe you are. You're little more than a nameless, faceless, wage slave apartment-dweller in some disease-infested blue city who blames "the Man" for your sorry plight, and who pays so much just to live in that city that you've got nothing left with which to pursue your "elitist interests." Wishful thinking.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 21, 2006 12:03 PM (8e/V4)
131
Evil Progressive,
You are truly one of the most disgusting people I have ever seen post on a blog. Do you think anyone here cares whether you go to the opera, love artsy-fartsy movies, drinks whatever wine, speaks French(the better to surrender with, I suppose), and lives in NYC? You just make us sorry that you weren't in the WTC on 9/11.
You are truly one of the most disgusting people I have ever seen post on a blog. Do you think anyone here cares whether you go to the opera, love artsy-fartsy movies, drinks whatever wine, speaks French(the better to surrender with, I suppose), and lives in NYC? You just make us sorry that you weren't in the WTC on 9/11.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 21, 2006 02:28 PM (rUyw4)
Posted by: Evil Progressive at January 22, 2006 09:39 AM (nlWFp)
133
White trash from you I accept as a compliment. You should be at the opera, or perhaps fellating a Islamist. You are nothing but a whore, anyway.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 22, 2006 02:44 PM (rUyw4)
134
Be careful what you write here people. If you string together too many words like "terrorist", "roadside bomb", "Al-Qaeda", "insurgent training camp" or "jihad" you'll trip some code at the NSA and might receive an unwelcome visit.
Posted by: PetDragon at January 23, 2006 03:26 PM (rxBPn)
135
Why would I be scared of a visit from NSA or the FBI? Are you scared of one?
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 23, 2006 04:25 PM (rUyw4)
January 18, 2006
Iraqis Cave to Hostage Demands, Release Six of Eight Female Detainees
Why terrorists take hostages.
1) Take hostage.
2) Make demands.
3) Demands are met.
4) Release hostage.
Lesson learned? Taking hostages is effective. Take more hostages.
Iraq's ministry of justice has told the BBC that six of the eight women being held by coalition forces in Iraq have been released early.Even if the women would have eventually been released, as the article suggests, releasing them now certainly sends the wrong message to the terrorist scum that ransom hostages for money or political goals.The six were freed because there was insufficient evidence to charge them, a justice ministry spokesman said.
The US forces have refused to confirm the releases, but say they would not be based on any operational activities.
The group holding US journalist Jill Carroll has said she will die unless all Iraqi women prisoners are freed.
The status of prisoners held by coalition forces is reviewed twice a week by a committee made up of the justice, human rights and interior ministries, and a representative of the US-led coalition.
The justice ministry spokesman said it was this committee which had studied the cases of the six women and found insufficient evidence against them.
UPDATE: Speaking of caving to terrorists demands, the sister of the Iraqi Interior Ministry has been released. If you will recall, she was taken hostage by a group claiming to be The Revenge Brigade. This is the same group that is holding Jill Carroll hostage.
Thanks to George for sending this BBC link:
The sister of Iraq's interior minister has been freed some two weeks after being kidnapped at gunpoint, an interior ministry official has said.Ali al-Khaqani confirmed Bayan Jabr's sister had been released, but would not say whether a ransom had been paid.
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Terrorism pays.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 18, 2006 10:31 AM (8e/V4)
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EXACTLY.
Posted by: Rusty at January 18, 2006 10:37 AM (JQjhA)
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LOL, At least Jill Carroll lives. I agree that saying they have insufficient to charge them is bullshit. I wonder what will become of the two other female prisoners.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 18, 2006 10:39 AM (5E0ex)
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Also you're welcome Rusty. I'm glad I can be of service. Personally I think Bayan Jabr paid ransom to free his sister but hey if it was your sister. You would do the same thing.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 18, 2006 10:42 AM (5E0ex)
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As long as the media refuses to report negatively on terrorist acts, and continues to give them good press, these things will continue.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 18, 2006 10:54 AM (0yYS2)
6
If it were up to me there would be a permanent, scrupulous no-hostage policy everywhere under U.S. jurisdiction. The sooner and with greater certitude we can associate taking hostages with overwhealming force coming down on your head like a stack of bricks, the less we will have to deal with it.
Unfortunately it's not up to me, nor are Ms. Carroll's captors under U.S. jurisdiction, so the Iraqis are free to make us look like pantywaists by caving to the demands. Let's just hope we didn't pressure them into it.
Unfortunately it's not up to me, nor are Ms. Carroll's captors under U.S. jurisdiction, so the Iraqis are free to make us look like pantywaists by caving to the demands. Let's just hope we didn't pressure them into it.
Posted by: ShannonKW at January 18, 2006 10:58 AM (dT1MB)
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>>>if it was your sister. You would do the same thing.
I would sacrifice the lives of ten other people to save my sister, so the fact that I would "do the same thing" is pretty irrelevant. I would hope that our government leaders would be a little bit more dispassionate than that in their decisionmaking. Wouldn't you?
I would sacrifice the lives of ten other people to save my sister, so the fact that I would "do the same thing" is pretty irrelevant. I would hope that our government leaders would be a little bit more dispassionate than that in their decisionmaking. Wouldn't you?
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 18, 2006 11:45 AM (8e/V4)
8
I would number it a little differently:
1)Group targets the innocent.
2)Group kills the innocent.
3)Member of group is captured.
4)
5)Released member rejoins group.
6)Go to #1.
1)Group targets the innocent.
2)Group kills the innocent.
3)Member of group is captured.
4)
5)Released member rejoins group.
6)Go to #1.
Posted by: slug at January 18, 2006 11:59 AM (0YdQw)
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Odd. Number four was supposed to be your numbers 1 thru 4.
Posted by: slug at January 18, 2006 12:03 PM (0YdQw)
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Shannon:
Your theory of a U.S backed Iraqi cave in, is hollow in the respect of how many other U.S citizens have had their head cut off for our refusal to release those prisoners, with the same demand, when they were under U.S command, and not Iraqi forces. So why start now?
Your theory of a U.S backed Iraqi cave in, is hollow in the respect of how many other U.S citizens have had their head cut off for our refusal to release those prisoners, with the same demand, when they were under U.S command, and not Iraqi forces. So why start now?
Posted by: dave at January 18, 2006 01:36 PM (CcXvt)
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Surprisingly this hasn't made the national news. BBC is the only news organization that mentioned this.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 18, 2006 02:12 PM (5E0ex)
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Give it a few more days and see how it plays out - I'm holding judgement till then.
You know - there is another way to deal with hostage situations - old fashioned and tried and true - it works virtually everytime. We don't do it for PR reasons. It is possible its done in region off-camera and away from media/world scrutiny to some degree.
Simple - grab someone the hostage takers do care about - wives, children, friends - and make a trade. I'd do it - in total secrecy of course - strictly professional - not personal - and I'm a nice guy!
You know - there is another way to deal with hostage situations - old fashioned and tried and true - it works virtually everytime. We don't do it for PR reasons. It is possible its done in region off-camera and away from media/world scrutiny to some degree.
Simple - grab someone the hostage takers do care about - wives, children, friends - and make a trade. I'd do it - in total secrecy of course - strictly professional - not personal - and I'm a nice guy!
Posted by: hondo at January 18, 2006 04:09 PM (3aakz)
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Hondo that's a good idea cept you assume they care about wives and children. From what I've seen women and children are not considered that valuable. Now his brother or his buddy maybe.
Posted by: Howie at January 18, 2006 04:13 PM (D3+20)
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Their own women and children are - its a universal thing separate from islam - its even semi-codified in tribal laws in the region - ask Jane - she has first hand experience.
Posted by: hondo at January 18, 2006 04:29 PM (3aakz)
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Ok
Posted by: Howie at January 18, 2006 04:37 PM (D3+20)
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Hondo is that like if I kick my dog it's one thing if you kick my dog it's a different matter.
Posted by: Howie at January 18, 2006 04:52 PM (D3+20)
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Hondo,
I seem to remember the Soviets doing something similar in Lebanon to stop attacks against their people there.
I seem to remember the Soviets doing something similar in Lebanon to stop attacks against their people there.
Posted by: Tim at January 18, 2006 04:54 PM (5rYy9)
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Bad, bad policy to release the prisoners in exchange for a hostage if this is what actually took place. I wonder?
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 18, 2006 05:05 PM (rUyw4)
19
The Soviets were big into it - the Lebanon story involves a pair of testicles in a glass jar (early 80's) - its famous among some quarters.
They used the tactic big time in Afganhistan in prisoner exchanges - worked with the locals - not so much with the foreign fighters.
Its my understanding, the KGB started to pay locals for info just for names and home countries of some foreign fighters so they could threaten and target their families back home.
I hear it got - very ugly.
They used the tactic big time in Afganhistan in prisoner exchanges - worked with the locals - not so much with the foreign fighters.
Its my understanding, the KGB started to pay locals for info just for names and home countries of some foreign fighters so they could threaten and target their families back home.
I hear it got - very ugly.
Posted by: hondo at January 18, 2006 05:17 PM (3aakz)
In a nation of 26 million, the U.S. holds only EIGHT female Iraqi prisoners
Yesterday The Revenge Brigade released a video tape of American journalist and hostage Jill Carroll claiming they would murder her if all female Iraqi prisoners were not released by the U.S. That demand--that women be released from prison--has been a common one among jihadi terrorists in Iraq.
No doubt those jihadis believe the lies and propaganda put out by pan-Arabic and Leftwing media that the U.S. is detaining hundreds--if not thousands--of women. Worse than that, these media outlets claim that U.S. forces routinely murder, rape, and purposefully humiliate Iraqi women.
So, how many women is the U.S. holding in Iraq? EIGHT.
No doubt there have been abuses in Iraq, but to claim that America is systematically demoralizing Iraq's women when only eight of them are being detained is a lie of magnificient proportions. Such lies and propaganda have consequences. The continued killing of American troops and kidnapping of civilian hostages is one of them.
U.S. forces in Iraq said on Wednesday they were holding eight women prisoners, after the abductors of an American journalist threatened to kill her if the authorities did not free all Iraqi women within 72 hours."We have eight females. They are being held for the same reasons as the others, namely that they are a threat to security," said Lieutenant Aaron Henninger, a spokesman for the U.S. military detentions operation. Some 14,000 men are held at Abu Ghraib and other jails on suspicion of insurgent activity.
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I could have swore there were 9 female detainees, but who am I to argue with cold,hard facts?
Posted by: goesh at January 18, 2006 10:15 AM (vX0fY)
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What you are reading 'now' after the 'pan-Arabic' media is also 'media'. Everyone reads the news and apparently choses to believe the agency with the most charismatic appeal. Most of the American people are still in a severely skewed view of how many US soldiers have died in the war. The government doesn't want them to know the real cost of war has been in trillions of dollars.
Reuters: "Economist estimates that it cost 260 billion dollars for US to go to war in Iraq"..
BBC: "Economist explained how the real cost of war in iraq war has gone above 1.2 trillion dollars"
Reuters: "Economist estimates that it cost 260 billion dollars for US to go to war in Iraq"..
BBC: "Economist explained how the real cost of war in iraq war has gone above 1.2 trillion dollars"
Posted by: magnumquest at January 18, 2006 07:04 PM (jxAh3)
January 17, 2006
American Jill Carroll Hostage Video Emerges
UPDATE 2/09/06: Third Jill Carroll hostage video here.
UPDATE 2/09/06: Third Jill Carroll hostage video here.UPDATE 1/30: Second Jill Carroll hostage video emerges.
Scroll through for updates or check the MAIN PAGE here or our pages dedicated exclusively to Jill Carroll for the latest news on Jill Carroll and other hostages in Iraq.
-----------
A new video has emerged of the American journalist Jill Carroll taken hostage by terrorists in Iraq. The fifteen second long video aired by al Jazeera television was broadcast with no audio. The terrorists claim they will murder Jill Carroll in 72 hours if their demand for the release of all female prisoners in Iraq is not met.
The Jawa Report is currently searching for a copy of the unedited, original hostage video and will post links to it and images from it as soon as they are available. If you have a copy of the video, please send via the e-mail listed at the contact page above.The YNC has some of the video as aired on Fox News, but not the original. Shawn has the BBC video of the same. Both are worth a look. Jill looks like she is in good shape on it. Pray for her release.
The Jawa Report was the first American media to reveal Carroll's name after she was taken hostage on January 7th. The Christian Science Monitor had asked news media to not report miss Carroll's name in those early hours, no doubt taking advice from the State Department which believes such information can be harmful. We disagree. Experience has shown that the more these hostages names are in the headlines, the greater the chance for their survival. Background on Jill Carroll can be found in The Jawa Report's Jill Carroll archive.
UPDATE: Jill Carroll's translator Allan Enwiya was murdered at the time she was captured. Iraqi in America is soliciting donations to help Allan Enwiya's family here.
Al Jazeera, never missing a beat, chooses to play up the angle that Carroll was against the war. Presumably the video mentions which group took Jill Carroll hostage, but al Jazeera does not give the public that information. UPDATE with hat tip to Jesusland Joe: While al Jazeera continues to say that no group has claimed the tape, this from the AP notes that the video played on al Jazeera was emblazed with a logo reading "The Revenge Brigade". Often when a group is named 'brigade' it is an indication that it is a smaller subunit within a larger organization. More on "The Revenge Brigade" below.
The fact that the terror organization is demanding the release of all women prisoners is not a good sign. This is a common demand from Salafist organizations such as Abu Musab al Zarqawi's al Qaeda and The Islamic Army in Iraq. Both groups routinely murder those they hold hostage. An earlier announcement said to be from al Qaeda in Iraq claimed they were holding Jill Carroll hostage. Al Jazeere:
The abductors of US journalist Jill Carroll have threatened to kill her if the United States does not free Iraqi women prisoners within 72 hours.Reuters:Aljazeera aired a brief video on Tuesday showing Carroll speaking to the camera, without broadcasting her voice.
Carroll had been on her way to a meeting with Adnan al-Dulaimi, a Sunni Arab leader whom she had intended to interview, the newspaper had said.
Carroll's former employers The Jordan Times published a Sunday editorial, stating: "The kidnappers who abducted her could not have chosen a more wrong target. True, Jill is a US citizen. But she is also more critical of US policies towards the Middle East than many Arabs… Jill has been from day one opposed to the war, to the invasion and occupation of Iraq. "
The abductors of U.S. journalist Jill Carrol have threatened to kill her if the United States does not free Iraqi women prisoners within 72 hours, Al Jazeera television said on Tuesday.Hat tip George and others.The station aired a brief video apparently showing Carroll speaking to the camera, without broadcasting her voice.
More on The Revenge Brigade: A group with the same name held an Iraqi born Christian named Minas Ibrahim al-Yusufi, who had Swedish citizenship, hostage for some months. The group initially threatened to behead him, released a hostage video, and then he was released unharmed. At the time, rumor was that a ransom had been paid.
More recently the group has kidnapped the sister of the Iraqi Interior Ministry and made the same demands that they are making for the release of Jill Carroll. Oddly enough, the group also demanded an apology for the raiding of a Shia mosque, yet Interior Minister Bayon Jabar is also Shia. UPDATE 1/18: Jabar's sister has been released. Did they pay the ransom demand?
Thanks to George for sending this BBC link:
The sister of Iraq's interior minister has been freed some two weeks after being kidnapped at gunpoint, an interior ministry official has said.Bacground. Reuters:Ali al-Khaqani confirmed Bayan Jabr's sister had been released, but would not say whether a ransom had been paid.
A previously unknown group says it has kidnapped the sister of Iraq's interior minister and set conditions for her release, including the freeing of some Iraqi women prisoners, Al Jazeera television said on Wednesday.Jawa Cobloggers: Traderrob at OpiniPundit: Threatening a women who has a track record of caring and consideration for the Arab people certainly isn't going to help their image in the regionThe group which called itself the Revenge Brigade said in a statement received by Al Jazeera that it wanted the release of women who were detained on charges of resisting the occupation.
Al Jazeera said the group also called for a halt "to the storming campaign launched by the security forces which are affiliated with the interior and defence ministries".
Others: Digger's Realm notes that Jill is the 31st journalist taken hostage in Iraq.
Chad at In the Bullpen believes this might be a ransom case.
Thirdee: Those with any type of understanding of the enemy we face know that these animals couldn't care less about Iraqi female prisoners.
Clarity and Resolve: Way to go, Team Jihad.
EuphoricReality has their usual great commentary. I would remind them, though, that the demand for the release of female prisoners is quite common. The same demand was used right before they murdered CAIR International worker Margaret Hassan.
All Searching Eye notices that the MSM doesn't want to use the 'T' word to describe Jill Carroll's captors.
Tin foil patrol:
Bombing, raping & torturing civilans... Oh wait if its being done by the good old US of A its not the same.Funny that those whom we dub "terrorists" in Iraq
would be viewed as "the resistance" if WE were
under occupation by a foreign power.Funny that some people CANNOT see beyond their own noses.
First of all, exactly what in the hell is a moral war? I am not under the impression that a war can be moral.
Next, why do WE kidnap civilians in Iraq with regularity? Why do WE torture people to death in Iraq? Why do WE torture kids in the presence of their parents in Iraq? You're obviously not equipped to answer these questions, so take them as rhetorical and go do some reading.
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Rusty, you have data and a causal theory about revealing the identities of hostages in Iraq. Why not write it up social-science-style?
Posted by: See-Dubya at January 17, 2006 04:30 PM (IcOvg)
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"The Jawa Report was the first American media to reveal Carroll's name after she was taken hostage on January 7th. The Christian Science Monitor had asked news media to not report miss Carroll's name in those early hours, no doubt taking advice from the State Department which believes such information can be harmful. We disagree."
I didn't know you guys were this type of jerks.
I didn't know you guys were this type of jerks.
Posted by: actus at January 17, 2006 04:33 PM (CqheE)
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What's a 'social science'?? Anyway, from talking to hostages and their families, this is THEIR theory which I respect a lot more than that of the State Department.
Posted by: Rusty at January 17, 2006 04:33 PM (JQjhA)
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We all know what kind of a jerk you are, Actus. Why don't you go troll somewhere else? My theory is you are the dumb ass agents we had here for several weeks before you started commenting again. They have now mysteriously disappeared, and you have reappeared. What a coincidence.
Rusty, you have done it right. Keep up the good work. Actus has never shown any concern for our hostages before, as he and his ilk are more likely to say "screw 'em".
Rusty, you have done it right. Keep up the good work. Actus has never shown any concern for our hostages before, as he and his ilk are more likely to say "screw 'em".
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 17, 2006 04:47 PM (rUyw4)
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The kind of 'jerks' who have actually taken the time to talk to the families of hostages and who listen to what the hostages themselves have to say about it. That kind.
Posted by: Rusty at January 17, 2006 04:49 PM (JQjhA)
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"My theory is you are the dumb ass agents we had here for several weeks before you started commenting again. "
Who?
"Actus has never shown any concern for our hostages before, as he and his ilk are more likely to say "screw 'em"."
I have a friend who knows this girl, and am delighted that you have ignored the requests of the people she was working for.
Who?
"Actus has never shown any concern for our hostages before, as he and his ilk are more likely to say "screw 'em"."
I have a friend who knows this girl, and am delighted that you have ignored the requests of the people she was working for.
Posted by: actus at January 17, 2006 05:15 PM (CqheE)
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What is it about libtards that they just have to try to make good, decent people hate them? I can't say why myself, but I'd like to line 'em all up and shoot them with one bullet if I could, just to avoid wasting more than one bullet.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 17, 2006 05:18 PM (0yYS2)
8
Does any one think that Bush will do as Al-Qaeda is requesting?
No
This is what Bush is living by he instigates and creates such rehearsed acts.
The publicity just gives more reason for Bush to stay in Iraq under false justification.
Bush ordered her taking and her killing.
Bush is the terrorist.
It is time now to reveal the truth and from this day on whoever of you who decide to take up with any of Allah's enemies and the ones that have turned on Islam
Let it be known that Allah is great and he knows who each and every one of you is the trader the enemy and the hypocrite.
So let us make option number four option number one of Bin Laden and Bin Laden alone without any members of the al-qaeda.
Let us say that Bin Laden is working with President Bush right now as we speak and lets say that even going back to the 9/11 and to the bus load of children in Russia to the London attacks.
Please let us continue with the truth and let me reveal the truth I know that most typical Americans do not like the truth and they do not accept the truth, mainly because the people of the USA are on satins path and that is the easy path do not disturb all things handed only evil filled with greed with no principals of life and no values at all.
So now we have the truth out and all that really care to go with Allah in the after and those who really care about peace on earth you will listen and you will see the truth and you will take the defense of this earth for peace for Allah and for Islam.
Please make your minds clean for one moment and listen to all that is going to be said to you.
Just imagine Bin Laden teamed up with Bush,
All recruiters from Islam seek Bin Laden for the justice and the principals and loyalty that each individual has to fight for the cause of Islam and to fight against the enemies that have invaded their lands killing their people every day.
These individuals are fighting for the same cause that the USA military is fighting for in a matter of speaking, but what is the same is that they are both fighting by the same guides they are both being MIS LEAD.
USA military is lead by Bush with his orders for what?
To fight to justify the 9/11 and to take out a bad President.
That is not what the USA military is there for at all it is all an illusion created by the enemy of Allah Satan and he lives and breathes from the Washington, DC each and every USA President Satan lives through.
Now you have Bin Laden he recruits by telling the people they need to fight for a good cause Islam for Allah against the enemies and all is understandable and taken and right,
But, Bin Laden is not having the ql-qaeda fighters for the real principals No,
Just like Bush they have their own reasons for this fight for these killings, a show that will never end conflicted chaos by the USA as usual Satan loves nothing better then to cause chaos and put one another against each other causing so much chaos that you will not even know who the enemy is any more.
But for sure Bush and Laden think that they have fooled the world and they have but not this one no I am lead and I have been chosen by Allah to guide the good people to the right direction and save the good Muslims from turning.
After the 9/11 attacks yes Bush had planned for the hide out for Bin and secure of his family.
The end results for these two are world dominance control of the world inflicted by evil greed by Satan him self.
Bush and Bin have certain attacks set up to be taken out by a mislead faithful good Muslim who is only thinking that he is serving Allah when in fact he is only serving Satan for mislead by Bush and Bin.
After these attacks are taken out the blame goes on to the Muslims of Islam as from the beginning of the 9/11,
Then Bush keeps his excuses and he justifies why he is invading other countries, because Iraq is the first on the list.
Sure the USA gov society has made you now wanting to go against the Muslims because you want their oil yah you want because you are mislead by evil greed by Satan.
Then while innocent good loyal Muslims are fighting by mislead reasons Bush has justification to continue his terror acts around the world.
Who do you think killed those school children in Russia?
Yes, you know as Bush said al-qaeda but what Bush left out is that al-qaeda is Bush and Bin.
You see so while the entire world is being mislead and brainwashed thousands of lives each day are being killed all for Satan to have his way.
The USA is great for causing chaos they have caused so much chaos in Iraq that Bush succeeded his plan so far.
But that is because he has not been revealed until now.
Bush plans to let the Muslims kill each other pull out the USA troops now because he knows his work is in full motion.
Then Bin get s to come in after all USA troops are gone and Bin as promised get s to lead Iraq and the Islam worlds but little does Bin know that Satan really lies within Bush and Bush will have Bin killed and then he will have control over all the people and take out Islam.
This is his plan and then he will be in control of the oils just as the USA started with invading and killing the Indians Satan is still at his work.
If you can take another minute and look back at history of chaos inflicted by the USA.
The biggest discrepancy through Islam and christen is Jesus as who he is.
There is no one in this world that can justify who Jesus was.
The only thing that is possible to say and to know is that Jesus was a messenger of GOD and the only acknowledgment of Jesus that is important and fact is that all people should agree on this.
Islam does agree on this so why the conflict?
Because the USA wants to create chaos Satan wants to create chaos by the Americans being evil and ignorant to just cause chaos they turn around and say Jesus is GOD.
When in fact I as I speak know that Jesus is not GOD.
In the Quran it states that you are not a true believer if you do not believe and accept that Jesus was a messenger of GOD and most of you do not even know that.
You only know what Satan wants you to know.
I If I call on each person in the world to open up your hearts and minds and turn to Allah and seek in him the answer from the information that I have just revealed to all of you on behalf of Allah.
As I will not stand by and watch this ignorance and dis respect of Allah and his people and his earth not one more second.
I have revealed the truth and I will do what ever I have to in order to protect Allah by the principals of Islam for my true good brothers and sisters of Islam.
Islam calls for peace and unity between Muslims not chaos amongst ourselves.
The Quran also demands for justice to defend Islam for peace and stability of the Muslims make no doubt about this and all shall do as Allah expects from us.
The enemy has spreaded his evil across the world and creating chaos every where you turn.
If we all did what is expected of us from Allah there would not be is much chaos.
Allah will seek to help us true believers on his own.
At his will he will wipe out Millions not thousands by any hurricane or earthquake or other disasters as such as the people still are turning away from him.
He now will take the bird flu and he will make a start himself there will be millions and millions to die it will be so bad that you will see people laying in the streets dying from this disease.
It is not curable at Allah's will you cannot change.
This will be the final awareness that you will receive of this matter.
It is up to each and every person here on this earth to choose which path they will take keep with Satan Bush and Bin relief and peace through Allah.
Americans must reestablish a new government and Islam must establish a new jihad with principals by the Quran only.
I am ready to help both sides I have solutions for both sides but it is all up to the people as to what they want and what they choose.
The dat will come soon that I will be able to reveal all of my plans and we can then unite and work for real world peace.
Your Islam Sister,
Alison Shunstrom
ashunstrom@yahoo.com
No
This is what Bush is living by he instigates and creates such rehearsed acts.
The publicity just gives more reason for Bush to stay in Iraq under false justification.
Bush ordered her taking and her killing.
Bush is the terrorist.
It is time now to reveal the truth and from this day on whoever of you who decide to take up with any of Allah's enemies and the ones that have turned on Islam
Let it be known that Allah is great and he knows who each and every one of you is the trader the enemy and the hypocrite.
So let us make option number four option number one of Bin Laden and Bin Laden alone without any members of the al-qaeda.
Let us say that Bin Laden is working with President Bush right now as we speak and lets say that even going back to the 9/11 and to the bus load of children in Russia to the London attacks.
Please let us continue with the truth and let me reveal the truth I know that most typical Americans do not like the truth and they do not accept the truth, mainly because the people of the USA are on satins path and that is the easy path do not disturb all things handed only evil filled with greed with no principals of life and no values at all.
So now we have the truth out and all that really care to go with Allah in the after and those who really care about peace on earth you will listen and you will see the truth and you will take the defense of this earth for peace for Allah and for Islam.
Please make your minds clean for one moment and listen to all that is going to be said to you.
Just imagine Bin Laden teamed up with Bush,
All recruiters from Islam seek Bin Laden for the justice and the principals and loyalty that each individual has to fight for the cause of Islam and to fight against the enemies that have invaded their lands killing their people every day.
These individuals are fighting for the same cause that the USA military is fighting for in a matter of speaking, but what is the same is that they are both fighting by the same guides they are both being MIS LEAD.
USA military is lead by Bush with his orders for what?
To fight to justify the 9/11 and to take out a bad President.
That is not what the USA military is there for at all it is all an illusion created by the enemy of Allah Satan and he lives and breathes from the Washington, DC each and every USA President Satan lives through.
Now you have Bin Laden he recruits by telling the people they need to fight for a good cause Islam for Allah against the enemies and all is understandable and taken and right,
But, Bin Laden is not having the ql-qaeda fighters for the real principals No,
Just like Bush they have their own reasons for this fight for these killings, a show that will never end conflicted chaos by the USA as usual Satan loves nothing better then to cause chaos and put one another against each other causing so much chaos that you will not even know who the enemy is any more.
But for sure Bush and Laden think that they have fooled the world and they have but not this one no I am lead and I have been chosen by Allah to guide the good people to the right direction and save the good Muslims from turning.
After the 9/11 attacks yes Bush had planned for the hide out for Bin and secure of his family.
The end results for these two are world dominance control of the world inflicted by evil greed by Satan him self.
Bush and Bin have certain attacks set up to be taken out by a mislead faithful good Muslim who is only thinking that he is serving Allah when in fact he is only serving Satan for mislead by Bush and Bin.
After these attacks are taken out the blame goes on to the Muslims of Islam as from the beginning of the 9/11,
Then Bush keeps his excuses and he justifies why he is invading other countries, because Iraq is the first on the list.
Sure the USA gov society has made you now wanting to go against the Muslims because you want their oil yah you want because you are mislead by evil greed by Satan.
Then while innocent good loyal Muslims are fighting by mislead reasons Bush has justification to continue his terror acts around the world.
Who do you think killed those school children in Russia?
Yes, you know as Bush said al-qaeda but what Bush left out is that al-qaeda is Bush and Bin.
You see so while the entire world is being mislead and brainwashed thousands of lives each day are being killed all for Satan to have his way.
The USA is great for causing chaos they have caused so much chaos in Iraq that Bush succeeded his plan so far.
But that is because he has not been revealed until now.
Bush plans to let the Muslims kill each other pull out the USA troops now because he knows his work is in full motion.
Then Bin get s to come in after all USA troops are gone and Bin as promised get s to lead Iraq and the Islam worlds but little does Bin know that Satan really lies within Bush and Bush will have Bin killed and then he will have control over all the people and take out Islam.
This is his plan and then he will be in control of the oils just as the USA started with invading and killing the Indians Satan is still at his work.
If you can take another minute and look back at history of chaos inflicted by the USA.
The biggest discrepancy through Islam and christen is Jesus as who he is.
There is no one in this world that can justify who Jesus was.
The only thing that is possible to say and to know is that Jesus was a messenger of GOD and the only acknowledgment of Jesus that is important and fact is that all people should agree on this.
Islam does agree on this so why the conflict?
Because the USA wants to create chaos Satan wants to create chaos by the Americans being evil and ignorant to just cause chaos they turn around and say Jesus is GOD.
When in fact I as I speak know that Jesus is not GOD.
In the Quran it states that you are not a true believer if you do not believe and accept that Jesus was a messenger of GOD and most of you do not even know that.
You only know what Satan wants you to know.
I If I call on each person in the world to open up your hearts and minds and turn to Allah and seek in him the answer from the information that I have just revealed to all of you on behalf of Allah.
As I will not stand by and watch this ignorance and dis respect of Allah and his people and his earth not one more second.
I have revealed the truth and I will do what ever I have to in order to protect Allah by the principals of Islam for my true good brothers and sisters of Islam.
Islam calls for peace and unity between Muslims not chaos amongst ourselves.
The Quran also demands for justice to defend Islam for peace and stability of the Muslims make no doubt about this and all shall do as Allah expects from us.
The enemy has spreaded his evil across the world and creating chaos every where you turn.
If we all did what is expected of us from Allah there would not be is much chaos.
Allah will seek to help us true believers on his own.
At his will he will wipe out Millions not thousands by any hurricane or earthquake or other disasters as such as the people still are turning away from him.
He now will take the bird flu and he will make a start himself there will be millions and millions to die it will be so bad that you will see people laying in the streets dying from this disease.
It is not curable at Allah's will you cannot change.
This will be the final awareness that you will receive of this matter.
It is up to each and every person here on this earth to choose which path they will take keep with Satan Bush and Bin relief and peace through Allah.
Americans must reestablish a new government and Islam must establish a new jihad with principals by the Quran only.
I am ready to help both sides I have solutions for both sides but it is all up to the people as to what they want and what they choose.
The dat will come soon that I will be able to reveal all of my plans and we can then unite and work for real world peace.
Your Islam Sister,
Alison Shunstrom
ashunstrom@yahoo.com
Posted by: Alison Shunstrom at January 17, 2006 05:19 PM (y6n8O)
9
The evil ones are the ones taking hostages.
Not Rusty. Not the State Department.
There are no right answers when you're guessing on which methodology works better with a bunch of homicidal maniacs.
Do you cut the red wire, or the blue wire? When the timer is at 00:01, you close your freakin' eyes and cut.
Not Rusty. Not the State Department.
There are no right answers when you're guessing on which methodology works better with a bunch of homicidal maniacs.
Do you cut the red wire, or the blue wire? When the timer is at 00:01, you close your freakin' eyes and cut.
Posted by: a4g at January 17, 2006 05:26 PM (k3V8s)
10
The really scary thing about Allison is that she is an AOL user. That means she's here, in the U.S. I shiver to think.....
Posted by: Rusty at January 17, 2006 05:32 PM (JQjhA)
11
The ID thing is water under the bridge - I myself felt it was a mistake without at least family permission.
Either way - back on topic
It doesn't look good for her. The MSM is in a bind. Its staked itself out as essentially anti-Bush's Iraq - but can't acknowledge its own fears and dislikes of the nature & ideology of the actual enemy.
Engage a muslim (conservative or otherwise) in discussion - you will discover their contempt and distain for the Western Left and its values - its amazing!
At least she had the courage to go outside and confront her fears and aprehensions to cover a story (regardless of her slant). The rest of the MSM will remain in their hotels and within the Green Zone and phonne it in ala Hunter Thompson.
Either way - back on topic
It doesn't look good for her. The MSM is in a bind. Its staked itself out as essentially anti-Bush's Iraq - but can't acknowledge its own fears and dislikes of the nature & ideology of the actual enemy.
Engage a muslim (conservative or otherwise) in discussion - you will discover their contempt and distain for the Western Left and its values - its amazing!
At least she had the courage to go outside and confront her fears and aprehensions to cover a story (regardless of her slant). The rest of the MSM will remain in their hotels and within the Green Zone and phonne it in ala Hunter Thompson.
Posted by: hondo at January 17, 2006 05:32 PM (3aakz)
12
Guess the mothership has arrived!
Posted by: hondo at January 17, 2006 05:35 PM (3aakz)
13
And all along I thought the anti-Christ was going to be a man, and it turns out to be female named Allison. Who'd a thunk it?
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 17, 2006 05:52 PM (rUyw4)
14
So Alison, I believe Jesus is the Son of God. One of the three parts of the Trinity and I will never change that belief. I am willing to leave you alone with your heresy.
What would you do with me?
What would you do with me?
Posted by: Brad at January 17, 2006 05:58 PM (3OPZt)
Posted by: Vinnie at January 17, 2006 06:09 PM (Kr6/f)
16
How ironic that the leftard Allison posted right after me, considering what I had said. It's going to be great when they do decide to try to take over America, I'm going to build a mountain of skulls and park my recliner on top of it.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 17, 2006 06:13 PM (0yYS2)
17
"actus, go back to getting ripped apart by Goldstein."
Mr. 'i'm not end of history but I know you are."
Mr. 'i'm not end of history but I know you are."
Posted by: actus at January 17, 2006 06:19 PM (CqheE)
18
Actus, just go back anywhere but here!
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 17, 2006 06:22 PM (rUyw4)
19
Alison, go take your Midol.
Posted by: slug at January 17, 2006 06:26 PM (0YdQw)
20
That screed by Allison has to be the best one yet. It isn't a lack of Midol that caused it, slug, but a complete lack of any sense. My God, girl, seek immediate medical attention!
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 17, 2006 06:32 PM (rUyw4)
21
Rusty, I think someone is trying to provoke a poopstorm against this alison by posting her email address here attached to this crap. Especially since you said the poster tracks back to an AOL address but apparently uses a yahoo email.
Posted by: See-Dubya at January 17, 2006 06:42 PM (IcOvg)
22
I think you are doing a good job Rusty. When hostages are brought to the attention of the media all the time it does save the hostage's life. When people forget about hostages, the terrorists kill them. Look at Dean Sadek, Aban Elias and Jeffrey Ake. They have been missing for a year and nothing has been mentioned of them. Dean and Aban's captors never made a single demand. Their families have been silent. In my opinion, the fact that Roy Hallums's family(God bless them) kept Roy's plight in the media helped him greatly. It kept him alive because the terrorists knew that Roy's family and compnay were willing to negotiate.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 17, 2006 06:43 PM (5E0ex)
23
I can't believe Allison is anything but a troll. But assuming she isn't, you can see what we're up against. Self-loathing American liberals so bent on trying to be fair-minded, that they lose touch with reality and endanger this country. I'm with the guy who wanted to get 'em all with just one bullet. I'm sure some of you remember the late 60s in the US. That was wild and sometimes violent. But I can't ever remember the kind of vitriolic hatred expressed by the left for the country that makes their pathetic lives possible. Makes me want to puke.
Posted by: Richard at January 17, 2006 07:02 PM (W8EsU)
24
According to the Associated Press, The name of the group that kidnapped Jill Carroll is The Revenge Brigade. The name appeared in a logo on the video. It looks like Al Qaeda was full of shit when it said they kidnapped her.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 17, 2006 08:16 PM (5E0ex)
25
As if NOT revealing the identity of Carroll would have kept her safer. Puleeeze.
And Allison, could you repeat that please?
And Allison, could you repeat that please?
Posted by: Thirdee at January 17, 2006 08:39 PM (zhvTF)
26
thirdee
Safer? No.
But it would have shielded the family here in the US from media attention which could have been unwanted (at a time of family crisis) and disturbing.
Its my understanding Rusty spoke to the family prior - I hope so. If not, (and it was my family) I would be pissed.
Anyone want to argue that with me - feel free.
It may appear I'm siding with actus on this particular point - so what.
Safer? No.
But it would have shielded the family here in the US from media attention which could have been unwanted (at a time of family crisis) and disturbing.
Its my understanding Rusty spoke to the family prior - I hope so. If not, (and it was my family) I would be pissed.
Anyone want to argue that with me - feel free.
It may appear I'm siding with actus on this particular point - so what.
Posted by: hondo at January 17, 2006 09:04 PM (3aakz)
27
I think it was common knowledge in the journalism ranks that Jill Carroll was the only female reporter in Iraq working for the Christian Science Monitor. The press already knew it was Jill, so I don't know why Rusty publishing her name had any effect on the family, but hey, I could be wrong. I do know that Rusty has been there for the hostages when no one else even cared, and that covers a lot of sins as far as I am concerned.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 17, 2006 09:16 PM (rUyw4)
28
Had the family asked us not to publish her name, we would have respected their wishes. It was the CSM that asked, not the family, and not because it might hurt the family. For some odd reason these organizations believe that the less publicity the better.
Posted by: Rusty at January 17, 2006 09:41 PM (JQjhA)
29
Also, had the CSM asked us we also would have complied for a time, but they didn't. I guess we are a little below their radar screen, eh?
Posted by: Rusty at January 17, 2006 09:50 PM (JQjhA)
30
More from our good friend Alison, perhaps from a previous life.
http://victoriaadvocate-proxy.nandomedia.com/special_sections/I_remember/story/2154489p-2495918c.html
http://victoriaadvocate-proxy.nandomedia.com/special_sections/I_remember/story/2154489p-2495918c.html
Posted by: Alex at January 17, 2006 09:59 PM (l2oeP)
31
Rusty
That's all you gotta say - I trust you.
When my unit first deployed to Iraq that was one of our fears - some guy getting himself captured - and the media camping out in front of the family's home for reaction.
NYC is THE media market - imagine the possiblitiy.
We set up an ad hoc rear group just in case .. off the clock, civilian clothes - even touched bases (un-offical of course) with the local PD pcts.
Anything goes down - we'd be there. Media would expect an unopposed circus - instead they'd get a variation of "the family business approach".
That's all you gotta say - I trust you.
When my unit first deployed to Iraq that was one of our fears - some guy getting himself captured - and the media camping out in front of the family's home for reaction.
NYC is THE media market - imagine the possiblitiy.
We set up an ad hoc rear group just in case .. off the clock, civilian clothes - even touched bases (un-offical of course) with the local PD pcts.
Anything goes down - we'd be there. Media would expect an unopposed circus - instead they'd get a variation of "the family business approach".
Posted by: hondo at January 17, 2006 10:06 PM (3aakz)
32
First of all, I do not believe Alison is a female. Female muslims are not allowed to speak as she did in that post.
Second of all, the male terrorist supporter is in a country that allows the use of the internet. This means they could very well be in the US. As someone else pointed out, that is a very scary thought, but it is possible there are many of them here.
We have allowed them to come here and hide out, waiting for the right time. It's coming, don't think for one moment we are safe from them here.
They are fanatics, incapable of reason or morals as we know them. They hate our way of life, our freedoms, and the fact that, while we are not perfect, we have options in life. They do not, and will never have.
We can never be like you, so we will kill you ubless you become backward, fanatical, and violent. That is the long and the short of it.
They cannot be reasoned with, understood, changed, shamed, or sanctioned. They have nothing to lose and no incentive to live tis life well. The only incentives given to them are to die for allah so they can go to heaven
Got the picture????? Geeeeezzzzz. How mny people will have to star in one of their snuff films before the people in the rest of the world wake uop?
Or do we want to be afraid in our own neighbourhoods of these things happening here? It's coming folks.
Second of all, the male terrorist supporter is in a country that allows the use of the internet. This means they could very well be in the US. As someone else pointed out, that is a very scary thought, but it is possible there are many of them here.
We have allowed them to come here and hide out, waiting for the right time. It's coming, don't think for one moment we are safe from them here.
They are fanatics, incapable of reason or morals as we know them. They hate our way of life, our freedoms, and the fact that, while we are not perfect, we have options in life. They do not, and will never have.
We can never be like you, so we will kill you ubless you become backward, fanatical, and violent. That is the long and the short of it.
They cannot be reasoned with, understood, changed, shamed, or sanctioned. They have nothing to lose and no incentive to live tis life well. The only incentives given to them are to die for allah so they can go to heaven
Got the picture????? Geeeeezzzzz. How mny people will have to star in one of their snuff films before the people in the rest of the world wake uop?
Or do we want to be afraid in our own neighbourhoods of these things happening here? It's coming folks.
Posted by: Dee at January 17, 2006 10:17 PM (HUims)
33
Why bother reacting to a denizen from the Mothership? Its un-necessary wear and tear on the keyboard.
Posted by: hondo at January 17, 2006 10:25 PM (3aakz)
34
I think that whoever kidnapped this woman and is threatening to kill her are agents of Satan and despicable demonic monster scumbag sons of whores who deserve to die a slow torturous death.. What bunch of evil woman killers..you morons.. you lowlife monsters..
Posted by: Geoffrey at January 17, 2006 11:47 PM (Tw02g)
35
>>>but I'd like to line 'em all up and shoot them with one bullet if I could, just to avoid wasting more than one bullet.
roflmao!!!
roflmao!!!
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 18, 2006 01:10 AM (8e/V4)
36
Family permission? Since when did that stop the major news networks from publishing names of kidnapped people known worldwide, huh? IMHO if Rusty was the first to publish in America it doesn't change anything at all. Please don't pay any attention to the noise of the tinfoil brigades, whose agenda as we know is to divert attention and blame everyone else except the evil kidnapping thugs who created this situation in the first place. Shame on them, not Rusty.
Posted by: V at January 18, 2006 04:20 AM (BeTNH)
37
Somebody call CNN, and find Eason Jordan. It turns out somebody really is targeting journalists and reporters.
Posted by: SCSIwuzzy at January 18, 2006 06:34 AM (35Dku)
38
I agree with the decision to publicize the name of the hostage. It humanizes her and makes bad propaganda if they kill her.
I recall that the Dept of Defense advised the families of Vietnam POWs not to draw attention to their husbands in Communist captivity, for fear it would make their situation worse. It was bad advice. When the wives mounted their own propaganda campaign to publicize the plight of their husbands, it turned the tables on the North Vietnamese. Their treatment improved from that point forward because so much attention was focused on them. Admiral Stockdale claimed that his wife saved his life by publicizing his situation.
Quite frankly, the State Department has never impressed me as a bastion of good judgement. I would not accept their advice at face value.
That said, my gut feeling is that the reporter's kidnappers are common criminals posing as terrorists who will settle for a ransom covertly paid. We should not pay it but rather post a reward for information leading to the capture or killing of the kidnappers.
I recall that the Dept of Defense advised the families of Vietnam POWs not to draw attention to their husbands in Communist captivity, for fear it would make their situation worse. It was bad advice. When the wives mounted their own propaganda campaign to publicize the plight of their husbands, it turned the tables on the North Vietnamese. Their treatment improved from that point forward because so much attention was focused on them. Admiral Stockdale claimed that his wife saved his life by publicizing his situation.
Quite frankly, the State Department has never impressed me as a bastion of good judgement. I would not accept their advice at face value.
That said, my gut feeling is that the reporter's kidnappers are common criminals posing as terrorists who will settle for a ransom covertly paid. We should not pay it but rather post a reward for information leading to the capture or killing of the kidnappers.
Posted by: Tantor at January 18, 2006 08:47 AM (K3i9w)
39
You see, once again, religious beliefs cloud a persons mind. Alison believes that Islam fights for a good cause, "ALLAH". When in fact she had no knowledge of ALLAH when she was born. ALLAH was taught to her by her parents because that is what they believed. She (like so many others) failed to to stand up for her self. Be a leader not a follower. She (like so many others)fall upon a "follow" state of mind. NOTE* I am not a DR. in the phsycological area. I am not a doctor at all. I consider myself an American because I live here, I was born here. I am a "leader" I choose what I want to believe in. I have read the stories of Jesus and Allah and see no difference in the sense that both state that what they do is for good and to believe in them or in Jesus's case, his father. I do not care for either. I don't know of any God's. I have never met one and if you have, by all means introduce me to him/her. What I do see is racial, religious, mislead psycos taking an innocent civilian and killing him/her. I don't recall seeing a U.S. Military soldier doing this. I don't see President Bush living the "high-life" while his country lives poverty. I like the way America does business. We have become the most powerful country because we have everyone from around the world (that includes muslims) unite with us. They help pay (with taxes) and defend their own freedom. This is what no other country will give them. If Islam is so great why do muslims move to America. Does Allah have stock in 7-eleven stores. (LOL- j/k .I had to throw that one in.) Listen, all I'm saying is that we are all human beings and just because we have different beliefs and opinions. we don't need to fight over that. You have to live for the moment. GET A LIFE AND WHEN YOU DO, ENJOY IT!
Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 18, 2006 10:07 AM (MOKXn)
40
The Islamic Witch test
If she can demonstrate her support for terror her 'credentials' will win her release.
If she is innocent she will be beheaded.
The irony being that rather then being burned at the stake, as a witch, she is released to burn us.
So we can only hope she is a collaborator and so earns her safe release.
That is why, I suspect, her fellow newsies wanted to cover up the abduction as that would provide them time to demonstrate she 'deserved' to be released.
Also...
How many of these 31 newsies siezed were on their way to an interview? Doesn't that always seem to be the pattern?
So why isn't anyone investigating the potential 'leaks' of these interviewees to terrorists?
If she can demonstrate her support for terror her 'credentials' will win her release.
If she is innocent she will be beheaded.
The irony being that rather then being burned at the stake, as a witch, she is released to burn us.
So we can only hope she is a collaborator and so earns her safe release.
That is why, I suspect, her fellow newsies wanted to cover up the abduction as that would provide them time to demonstrate she 'deserved' to be released.
Also...
How many of these 31 newsies siezed were on their way to an interview? Doesn't that always seem to be the pattern?
So why isn't anyone investigating the potential 'leaks' of these interviewees to terrorists?
Posted by: DANEgerus at January 18, 2006 11:04 AM (J8yxJ)
41
I feel for Jill, just the same as I would for anyone (including muslims) who is threatened and/or killed without reason. She like so many others were doing what they enjoyed most, telling the truth. She reported so many things that were vital to everyone. She saw first hand what was really happening. The only mistake was being there. (my opinion) Just because you want to be noble and do the right thing doesn't always mean you have to put yourself in harms way. As I can say for myself. I wouldn't be there unless I really had to. She had a choice just like others (nicholas berg). It's the same as what's going on in the next city. For instance, The next city over from yours is known as a high crime rate with killings almost everyday. Do you buy a house there. HELL NO!! And that is what she did. She knew the consiquences and put up tent in there front lawn. I feel bad saying all this but if I have to spell this one out to save lives, I will. America has Military. They are trained to defend and kill if necessary, Oh and some of our U.S. Military soldiers do have Islam background. How's that for Ironic. But, just the same they too are brave and they too are Americans that I would stand next to and be proud to defend our freedom. With that said, let them handle the situation, mean while, any non-military person, please stay away from there. I wish the safe return of Jill and everyone else there, especially our troops.
Don't be religious, BE CIVIL
Don't be religious, BE CIVIL
Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 18, 2006 11:06 AM (MOKXn)
42
T.B.:
There's lots of killing done by non-religious people, too. Don't fall prey to "post hoc, ergo propter hoc."
YBP
There's lots of killing done by non-religious people, too. Don't fall prey to "post hoc, ergo propter hoc."
YBP
Posted by: youngbourbonprofessional at January 18, 2006 03:01 PM (tdhAh)
43
Point Taken Youngbourbonprofessional,
i was just speaking to the issue at hand. This war is based solely on religious beliefs. "Jihad". But, I do see your point as well. I think others have jumped on the band wagon. Also, I didn't mean "don't be religious" as it came out wrong. Be religious and have your beliefs but don't try to make others understand them. It's offensive.
i was just speaking to the issue at hand. This war is based solely on religious beliefs. "Jihad". But, I do see your point as well. I think others have jumped on the band wagon. Also, I didn't mean "don't be religious" as it came out wrong. Be religious and have your beliefs but don't try to make others understand them. It's offensive.
Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 18, 2006 03:20 PM (MOKXn)
44
Dear Taco Bandit: Hmmm. How about "Try To Explain Why You Believe Something But Don't Force Your Beliefs On Others"?
Pax,
YBP
Pax,
YBP
Posted by: youngbourbonprofessional at January 18, 2006 03:57 PM (tdhAh)
45
the U$ should release all iraqi female prisoners- the only reason they hold them is for bargaining chips against iraqi males who participate in defending their homeland.
once they are released- and according to the BBC they just released all but 2 of the iraqi female prisoners today, then Jill should be released.
this website still sucks balls tho'
once they are released- and according to the BBC they just released all but 2 of the iraqi female prisoners today, then Jill should be released.
this website still sucks balls tho'
Posted by: Jawa Sucks at January 18, 2006 04:34 PM (n3EHA)
46
YBP,
I take it that you are religious. If so, may ask what religion? Whay are you religious? an Why did you choose that religion out of so many religions?
Taco Bandit
I take it that you are religious. If so, may ask what religion? Whay are you religious? an Why did you choose that religion out of so many religions?
Taco Bandit
Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 18, 2006 04:49 PM (MOKXn)
47
That is true you are no Doctor or anything in that nature.
I am a native American, I was deprived learning Islam, I was born Muslim and since I found Islam by the grace of Allah leading me where I belong.
That is where you are correct, I would have been weak and could not claim such if I were only taught by my parents Islam, but for my strength that Allah has given me to be a true good Muslim I am more stronger and more wiser then the Muslims of Islam that were brought up Islam by their parents.
I do not have to answer to any of you, I only have to answer to Allah.
But as a good Muslim, I would like to offer this to you as you were in the dark and now that you have been en lightened by this truth you it may help guide you and make you realize that what I speak is of only truth.
As for me being a female and you saying that I as a female Muslim am not allowed to speak you see that is how deprived you also have been and without knowledge of Islam.
Allah expects of a woman the same loyalty and faithfulness as of the man.
Allah expects the woman to act accordant and feminine yes but Allah Loves more the woman that can fulfill all of Allah's wishes and then to be loyal to Allah's wishes to help spread protect and defend Islam.
Please all of you go to your local Mosque and you can ask for a Quran and read it.
You should not fear the truth.
It is typical for Americans to ignore the truth and to not accept it.
But the time has come that it is demanded to live by the truth and no more lies.
You will find out that you CANNOT be a true Muslim If you do not Believe and accept Jesus as Allah's messenger.
You see, you people do not know anything about Islam you just listen to all the lies.
None of you accept Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) Allah's last and final messenger.
This is the conflict and the problem, you then try to turn around and cause chaos and create problems by saying that Jesus, Allah's messenger is in fact Allah is in fact GOD.
Do you know how ignorant you people are to even suggest such an ignorant thing?
It shows that you disrespect Allah and you do not appreciate your lives.
The USA just wants to create chaos spreading their evil ways so they can profit and change and be in charge.
You have no respect for any one or anything.
You think the way that others live are wrong because you could not live the way they live.
Go to another country a poor one and you will see who has the principals who has the values and who are the happy ones you will see that you are the losers and you are the jealous and you are the evil ones filled with hate, to just destroy and take over not thinking about any one or anything.
Only your greedy selves in what you can get and take.
I am a native American, I was deprived learning Islam, I was born Muslim and since I found Islam by the grace of Allah leading me where I belong.
That is where you are correct, I would have been weak and could not claim such if I were only taught by my parents Islam, but for my strength that Allah has given me to be a true good Muslim I am more stronger and more wiser then the Muslims of Islam that were brought up Islam by their parents.
I do not have to answer to any of you, I only have to answer to Allah.
But as a good Muslim, I would like to offer this to you as you were in the dark and now that you have been en lightened by this truth you it may help guide you and make you realize that what I speak is of only truth.
As for me being a female and you saying that I as a female Muslim am not allowed to speak you see that is how deprived you also have been and without knowledge of Islam.
Allah expects of a woman the same loyalty and faithfulness as of the man.
Allah expects the woman to act accordant and feminine yes but Allah Loves more the woman that can fulfill all of Allah's wishes and then to be loyal to Allah's wishes to help spread protect and defend Islam.
Please all of you go to your local Mosque and you can ask for a Quran and read it.
You should not fear the truth.
It is typical for Americans to ignore the truth and to not accept it.
But the time has come that it is demanded to live by the truth and no more lies.
You will find out that you CANNOT be a true Muslim If you do not Believe and accept Jesus as Allah's messenger.
You see, you people do not know anything about Islam you just listen to all the lies.
None of you accept Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) Allah's last and final messenger.
This is the conflict and the problem, you then try to turn around and cause chaos and create problems by saying that Jesus, Allah's messenger is in fact Allah is in fact GOD.
Do you know how ignorant you people are to even suggest such an ignorant thing?
It shows that you disrespect Allah and you do not appreciate your lives.
The USA just wants to create chaos spreading their evil ways so they can profit and change and be in charge.
You have no respect for any one or anything.
You think the way that others live are wrong because you could not live the way they live.
Go to another country a poor one and you will see who has the principals who has the values and who are the happy ones you will see that you are the losers and you are the jealous and you are the evil ones filled with hate, to just destroy and take over not thinking about any one or anything.
Only your greedy selves in what you can get and take.
Posted by: Alison at January 18, 2006 09:50 PM (Ffvoi)
48
The false prophet seeks to decieve by speaking of Jesus. Yes Lucifer tells many lies and appears as an Angel of light. The basis of Satanism is to offend god. That is why they say the Lords Prayer backwards. It's the same as when terrorists call out to god as they butcher an innocent. No man or woman can live and "equitable relationship" with God. What man can stand before God and be judged. None not one. Well there is one whom Allison speaks of. But had she ever known him she would see the idol worship and how the offense to God in his name make Lucifer smile.
We are bless because of Gods will not in spite of it. Tell me if Islam is doing God's will why are it's countries not the most blessed. Would God ever bestow such great blessing to our stewardship if it were as you describe? Would he let so many of his children in the middle east suffer if they deserved better? It's not us screwing up the world and blaming us for it misplaced.
You reap what you sow and the middle east is lying in the bed that it made itself. The wages of sin is death.
I'll send you one Gospel if you want to save yourself from the Prince of Lies.
We are bless because of Gods will not in spite of it. Tell me if Islam is doing God's will why are it's countries not the most blessed. Would God ever bestow such great blessing to our stewardship if it were as you describe? Would he let so many of his children in the middle east suffer if they deserved better? It's not us screwing up the world and blaming us for it misplaced.
You reap what you sow and the middle east is lying in the bed that it made itself. The wages of sin is death.
I'll send you one Gospel if you want to save yourself from the Prince of Lies.
Posted by: Howie at January 18, 2006 10:34 PM (D3+20)
49
That alison person just reinforces the problem in defending these animals in any way. As a native American, you should be shot for treason for defending them.
You think its ok to butcher people? You think its ok to torture women and children? You think its ok to saw off peoples heads, tape it, and send the tape to anyone? Wow. You are some piece of work.
You are sick. This just proves Pres Bush's reason for needing to listen to people's conversations in an attempt to stop these morons from commiting terrorism here in the US. You and John Walker Lindh. Even US citizens can be supporters of these fanatical hoodlums.
We are at war with an enemy we can't see. We are at war with ghosts, cowards, and sickos. They disguise themselves as civilians so we can't tell who is good or bad; we can't tell who they are either there OR here.
Mr Bush, order our civilians out of that part of the world and proceed to take care of business. The first bombs should drop the second they harm Ms Carroll. They should have dropped when they killed the first US civilian hostages.
Liberals .. sit down and shut up on this one.
You think its ok to butcher people? You think its ok to torture women and children? You think its ok to saw off peoples heads, tape it, and send the tape to anyone? Wow. You are some piece of work.
You are sick. This just proves Pres Bush's reason for needing to listen to people's conversations in an attempt to stop these morons from commiting terrorism here in the US. You and John Walker Lindh. Even US citizens can be supporters of these fanatical hoodlums.
We are at war with an enemy we can't see. We are at war with ghosts, cowards, and sickos. They disguise themselves as civilians so we can't tell who is good or bad; we can't tell who they are either there OR here.
Mr Bush, order our civilians out of that part of the world and proceed to take care of business. The first bombs should drop the second they harm Ms Carroll. They should have dropped when they killed the first US civilian hostages.
Liberals .. sit down and shut up on this one.
Posted by: Dee at January 19, 2006 08:51 AM (HUims)
50
liberals are a bunch of communist in hiding
Posted by: celtic cross at January 19, 2006 02:41 PM (/8Kri)
51
Well,I still think everything I said before was right...but as someone posted on here before...This is about "Jill Carroll".However,
it is about her,and I've said really all I can say in reguards to her...I just dont think it hurt anything by voicing my opinion about other things as well...And The only reason I did that is because I was sick and tired of alot of you saying its Bush & his administrations fault for everything that is happening.You can only say that so many times before you start pissing people off...You only do that because you dont understand the facts of the situations we get put in...If you take the time and look at the facts of each situation...Then you will see what
I'm talking about...and you will also see that everything you thought before was pretty fuckin' stupid...Then & only then will you finally come out of your denial state of mind & take your first step into reality...Anyways,moving on...I'm having a hard time forming an opinion on
the "No Negotiating With Terrorist" subject...
Usually my answer is "Hell No"...but then I think about if it was one of my loved ones in that situation...I would do everything I could to save them...and the U.S. is conducting raids
as we speak to try & save Jill...but they wont negotiate with terrorist...and I understand that...but just think if it was the Presidents daughters being held hostage...You think he would negotiate then???...and Im not knocking my
President at all...I'm all for him...but whether
you're a democrat or republican or whatever else...The U.S. Policy is "No Negotiating With
Terrorist".That goes for even the highest in power in our political offices...but secretly...
you really think they're not gonna negotiate for their sons & daughters?I think they would...
but for us little people they just turn the other
cheek...that goes for "Jill Carroll" too.All we can do as hope & pray her captors will release her...or that we will get to her in time...My
thoughts & Prayers are with her family & loved ones...Lets just hope for the best....
it is about her,and I've said really all I can say in reguards to her...I just dont think it hurt anything by voicing my opinion about other things as well...And The only reason I did that is because I was sick and tired of alot of you saying its Bush & his administrations fault for everything that is happening.You can only say that so many times before you start pissing people off...You only do that because you dont understand the facts of the situations we get put in...If you take the time and look at the facts of each situation...Then you will see what
I'm talking about...and you will also see that everything you thought before was pretty fuckin' stupid...Then & only then will you finally come out of your denial state of mind & take your first step into reality...Anyways,moving on...I'm having a hard time forming an opinion on
the "No Negotiating With Terrorist" subject...
Usually my answer is "Hell No"...but then I think about if it was one of my loved ones in that situation...I would do everything I could to save them...and the U.S. is conducting raids
as we speak to try & save Jill...but they wont negotiate with terrorist...and I understand that...but just think if it was the Presidents daughters being held hostage...You think he would negotiate then???...and Im not knocking my
President at all...I'm all for him...but whether
you're a democrat or republican or whatever else...The U.S. Policy is "No Negotiating With
Terrorist".That goes for even the highest in power in our political offices...but secretly...
you really think they're not gonna negotiate for their sons & daughters?I think they would...
but for us little people they just turn the other
cheek...that goes for "Jill Carroll" too.All we can do as hope & pray her captors will release her...or that we will get to her in time...My
thoughts & Prayers are with her family & loved ones...Lets just hope for the best....
Posted by: Clyde at January 19, 2006 06:17 PM (2Xc2N)
Posted by: Clyde at January 19, 2006 06:28 PM (2Xc2N)
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I agree, you can't negotiate with terrorists. However faggots like Jesusland Carlos, brad and Jesusland Joe call me a liberal. Oh how I would love to break their knees with a baseball bat.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 19, 2006 07:24 PM (5E0ex)
54
Alison is definitely a retard, but ptobably a retard with explosives in the closet. If we are lucky, Bush will spy on Alison before she becomes the next suicide bomber.
If Ms Carroll is not released, BOMBS AWAY on Iraq!
If Ms Carroll is not released, BOMBS AWAY on Iraq!
Posted by: Dee at January 19, 2006 10:04 PM (HUims)
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I feel sorry for the agents who spy on her...something that nasty you could catch over the phone...And I agree...BOMB AWAY!!!
Posted by: Clyde at January 19, 2006 11:07 PM (2Xc2N)
56
T.B.
I became a convert to Catholicism after studying the major religions because I found it to be the truth.
YBP
I became a convert to Catholicism after studying the major religions because I found it to be the truth.
YBP
Posted by: youngbourbonprofessional at January 20, 2006 06:03 AM (tdhAh)
57
If God is as pissed off at organized religion as I think He must be by now, don't think I want to be involved in any of it lol
BTW, yes I DO believe in God .. a loving God. The God I know would never reward those terrorist sickos that do their disgusting deeds in the name of their god ... how SICK!!!!
BTW, yes I DO believe in God .. a loving God. The God I know would never reward those terrorist sickos that do their disgusting deeds in the name of their god ... how SICK!!!!
Posted by: Dee at January 20, 2006 08:20 AM (HUims)
58
This Alison is not an American. Her use of the English language is very much like an Arab would have when they come here to study in a university. Sorry, Alison, but you are an imposter. I just wonder how many of these jihadist sympathizers we have in the US. Thank you, Jesus, for blessing us with the 2nd Amendment.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 20, 2006 06:05 PM (rUyw4)
59
I went to middle school and high school with Jill Carrol, hell my best friend went on a date with her and I had several classes with her. I hope to God she makes it out of Iraq alive and in one piece. But, if I saw Mr. Bush today I would spit in his face because I know that if it was one of his daughters in her spot he would try everything in his power to get her free. The man is only concerned with himself and his kind. (wealthy)
God please be with Jill.
God please be with Jill.
Posted by: Chris at January 21, 2006 05:24 PM (iJ1XP)
60
They have no right to kidnap/Kill innocent people like that !
They are just a bunch of ignorant insurgents who are using religion for their own ends ,I`'m a Moslem but killing people and kidnapping people is not even in the "Koran" and now the question is how could they do that and everytime they kill someone they always said "ALLAH AKBAR" That is tottaly Bullshit !ALLAH has nothing to do with kidnap/killing and things like that ,every religion teach that killing and kidnaping people is inspiring evil !!!!
But anyway for Jill Caroll and family I hope that all is going to be fine and we shall pray for it.
*PS. Sorry people my english is poor and correct me if I'm wrong
They are just a bunch of ignorant insurgents who are using religion for their own ends ,I`'m a Moslem but killing people and kidnapping people is not even in the "Koran" and now the question is how could they do that and everytime they kill someone they always said "ALLAH AKBAR" That is tottaly Bullshit !ALLAH has nothing to do with kidnap/killing and things like that ,every religion teach that killing and kidnaping people is inspiring evil !!!!
But anyway for Jill Caroll and family I hope that all is going to be fine and we shall pray for it.
*PS. Sorry people my english is poor and correct me if I'm wrong
Posted by: Harry " Indonesian" at January 22, 2006 12:31 AM (08dzx)
61
HEY, IT IS WHAT IT IS.YEAH ITS PRETTY SAD TO SEE WHAT HAPPEND TO JILL CARROLL.BUT CAN YOU REALLY BLAME THE TERRORISTS.THE IRAQI PEOPLE HAVE GONE THROUGH A LOT.A LOT OF UNFAIR TREATMENT BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND I CANT REALLY BLAME THEM AT ALL.IF I HAD A COUNTRY, AND THE U.S. WERE CONTINUALLY BOMBING IT FOR OIL PROFITS AND KILLING INNOCENT LITTLE CHILDREN,(BECOUSE BOMBS HAVE NO NAME ON THEM) - I'D BE A LITTLE UPSET TOO.YOU KNOW.FAR MORE INNOCENT IRAQI'S HAVE DIED AT THE HANDS OF THE U.S. THAN YOU REALLY THINK.SO WHY BE MAD AT THE TERRORISTS.THEY ARE ONLY DOING WHAT THEY FEEL IS RIGHT.THE UNITED STATES HAS DESTROYED IRAQ'S LANDSCAPE AND KILLED TOO MUCH PEOPLE.ITS ONLY CALLED BAD KARMA.ASK THE AFRICAN AMERICAN,HE CAN TELL YOU RAW STORIES OF WHAT HAS HAPPEND TYO HIS PEOPLE AS WELL TOO.I'M HEAVILY SURPRISED THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS DON'T PICK UP A GUN AND FIGHT THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT AS WELL FOR ALL THE MISTREATMENT THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS.BUT NOBODY LIKES TO TALK ABOUT THAT.FREE JILL CARROLL - FREE JILL CARROLL THEY WOULD CHANT.ONLY TO FALL ON DEAF TERRORIST EARS WHO WILL MOST LIKEY KILL HER INNOCENT SOUL ONLY FOR WHAT HER PEOPLE HAVE DONE TO OTHER INNOCENT PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE GLOBE.I GUESS ITS WHAT THE BIBLE CALLS "AN EYE FOR AN EYE".SEE THE PROBLEM IS THAT JILL CARROLL IS THIS REPORTER LADY WHO IS AGAINST THE U.S. WAR AND SPEAKS BAD OF THE PRESIDENT,BUT THE PROBLEM WAS THAT ITS TOO LATE.PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT ANYMORE.THEY ARE JUST TIRED AND FED UP AMERICAN EVIL.DON'T BELEIVE ME ? ASK THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN HIROSHIMA.THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE SO IGNORANT AND CONCEEDED.THEY FEEL AS IF AN AMERICAN LIFE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY OTHER LIFE OF PEOPLE IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY.THE ONLY AMERICAN LIFE THAT IS PROBABLY NOT THAT IMPORTANT IS THE NEGROE PROBABLY.(BUT WHO CARES ABOUT HIM,HE'S ONLY HERE FOR MANUAL LABOR ANYHOW.)BUT STILL I GUESS THEIR ARROGANT CRY FOR JILL CARROLL'S FREEDOM MOST LIKELY WILL NOT BE HEARD AS TERRORISTS ALWAYS DO.ITS A SHAME . MIGHT AS WELL NAME A STREET AFTER HER OR SOMETHING !
Posted by: eric at January 22, 2006 05:33 AM (FBfzU)
62
Jill Carroll's story is interesting except she might die. I am *NOT* on top of the data and kinds of techniques you are. I want her to go free though same as everyone. My message is that she's a victim of police entrapment. Bin Laden is an extortionist who can obviously have ties with the police. All the Iraqis, particularly the women, who are in the US now must be aware of her abductors identities. Apart of the confusion to get results in her case is due to Stalinist politics and more hidden agendas which you probaly think possible. I believe that she is still alive and I will continue praying for her with my mother.
Posted by: Mark Adamkiewicz at January 22, 2006 10:56 AM (T1xzP)
63
ALISON,
Poor, Poor Alison. You have taken every word I have said out of context. I am not denying you of your rights to be a muslim. I was mearly suggesting that you should put down the "religious shield" and come to realize one thing. Realize that you "in a universal sense" are like every woman, man, or child that has ever walked this earth. You are no different except that the fact that you hold your own beliefs. Thus, it changes your personality, your perception in life, and your aura. This is what creates the karma around you. You praise ALLAH, excellent! Prasie ALLAH if that's what makes you sleep at night.
(my opinion) You praise something that is written in a book some odd years ago. A book written by someone you don't know or will ever know. If that is your GOD, than so be it. If I could however, recommend "Clifford, the Big Red Dog" you might enjoy life better as he doesn't believe in Jihad or that every one else in the world are infidels because they didn't read his book. (my opinion) I believe this would save you the hassle and it would save the world many lives.
Here's a few questions. there are so many religions out there in the world. I have come accross so many different opinions on personal beliefs. What makes yours more important? Is it important because you say so? Is it important because others believe the same? What if you lived your life through Allah all this time and when you die, there is no ALLAH? what if that GOD is another GOD, say; "Jesus" or maybe "Bumba" (The supreme god and creator of the Boshongo, people in Zaire)Why not, they are GODs just like your GOD. You can both sit down and argue till your both dead and then low and behold, you are both wrong. You come to find out that there was no GOD when you got there. What is wrong with that? Was your life that terrible that you had to quit believing in yourself and start putting faith in another? How can you be 100% and I mean really 100% that your GOD or anyone else's GOD in that matter are the true GOD? What is so wrong with opening your eyes to the beauty that lies around you?
I know of one thing, we were all given a gift. A gift of each other. We (me, you and all those that live) have what no GOD will ever have a chance to do. We have a chance to show the GODs that no matter what kingdom they reside in. Our kingdom is here and now. We have a chance to prove them wrong! They may want us to fight, I don't know. But, if that's the case, I say screw 'em. We can be better than that!
Here's a thought: If you want someone to tell you how to live your life and promise something better in your after life, call me. I will tell you what to do and promise you the world. And when you die and there is no after life then you will see that it was infact not me that has lied to you but, yourself that has lied to you. Then you can come back to me and complain. You can pay me what you give to your Mosque each week.
Forget what you hear, believe what you know!
Poor, Poor Alison. You have taken every word I have said out of context. I am not denying you of your rights to be a muslim. I was mearly suggesting that you should put down the "religious shield" and come to realize one thing. Realize that you "in a universal sense" are like every woman, man, or child that has ever walked this earth. You are no different except that the fact that you hold your own beliefs. Thus, it changes your personality, your perception in life, and your aura. This is what creates the karma around you. You praise ALLAH, excellent! Prasie ALLAH if that's what makes you sleep at night.
(my opinion) You praise something that is written in a book some odd years ago. A book written by someone you don't know or will ever know. If that is your GOD, than so be it. If I could however, recommend "Clifford, the Big Red Dog" you might enjoy life better as he doesn't believe in Jihad or that every one else in the world are infidels because they didn't read his book. (my opinion) I believe this would save you the hassle and it would save the world many lives.
Here's a few questions. there are so many religions out there in the world. I have come accross so many different opinions on personal beliefs. What makes yours more important? Is it important because you say so? Is it important because others believe the same? What if you lived your life through Allah all this time and when you die, there is no ALLAH? what if that GOD is another GOD, say; "Jesus" or maybe "Bumba" (The supreme god and creator of the Boshongo, people in Zaire)Why not, they are GODs just like your GOD. You can both sit down and argue till your both dead and then low and behold, you are both wrong. You come to find out that there was no GOD when you got there. What is wrong with that? Was your life that terrible that you had to quit believing in yourself and start putting faith in another? How can you be 100% and I mean really 100% that your GOD or anyone else's GOD in that matter are the true GOD? What is so wrong with opening your eyes to the beauty that lies around you?
I know of one thing, we were all given a gift. A gift of each other. We (me, you and all those that live) have what no GOD will ever have a chance to do. We have a chance to show the GODs that no matter what kingdom they reside in. Our kingdom is here and now. We have a chance to prove them wrong! They may want us to fight, I don't know. But, if that's the case, I say screw 'em. We can be better than that!
Here's a thought: If you want someone to tell you how to live your life and promise something better in your after life, call me. I will tell you what to do and promise you the world. And when you die and there is no after life then you will see that it was infact not me that has lied to you but, yourself that has lied to you. Then you can come back to me and complain. You can pay me what you give to your Mosque each week.
Forget what you hear, believe what you know!
Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 22, 2006 11:19 AM (MOKXn)
64
Note* How is it possible that America and countries alike are capable of getting so many different religions, cultures, and races to live amongst each other in unity for so long? Is it wrong for ALLAH biding muslims to live and learn from infidels as they have and still do? You hate our religion and our life style yet you bang on our gates to let you in it.
CHRIS -- I'm sorry for you and the family and friends of Jill. Out of all of us on this blog, you appear to be the closest to her. I hope she returns safely. My heart goes out to her.
YBP -- congrats on finding your truth. I was born into catholic myself and to speak freely ment I could not be biased for one religion. I gave up my right to be catholic for a better right. I gained the right to say we are all gods in one way or another. If being a god is what creates, then we have created many. If being a GOD is what explains only that, that can not be explained, then we have found a reason for it (i.e.higher power) We are all heroes in some sense and some form.
You can save a person by smiling and acknowledging them.
CHRIS -- I'm sorry for you and the family and friends of Jill. Out of all of us on this blog, you appear to be the closest to her. I hope she returns safely. My heart goes out to her.
YBP -- congrats on finding your truth. I was born into catholic myself and to speak freely ment I could not be biased for one religion. I gave up my right to be catholic for a better right. I gained the right to say we are all gods in one way or another. If being a god is what creates, then we have created many. If being a GOD is what explains only that, that can not be explained, then we have found a reason for it (i.e.higher power) We are all heroes in some sense and some form.
You can save a person by smiling and acknowledging them.
Posted by: Taco Bandit at January 22, 2006 12:38 PM (MOKXn)
65
My prayers are with Jill Carroll and her family. I am constantly following her story on the media and hope that she has the same outcome as Roy,only shorter. Carrie and I were on CNN last night on the Carol Lin Sat evening show and talked about how we have 311 days of experience in what we did in our situation . Carrie has made a new website
hostagefamilymatters.com Every hostage over there matters. We felt that Roy was forgotten at times and that was very painful. It seems that the media is covering Jill much more and that makes me very happy. It is a hostage crisis if there is any hostage anywhere... they are all important. I thank the Jawa for always being there to remember Roy . Rusty brought it out in the beginning all the way to the wonderful finish! I am sincerely appreciative of Dr. Rusty. I hope Jill and the others have the same miracle as my family, God Bless, Susan Hallums
hostagefamilymatters.com Every hostage over there matters. We felt that Roy was forgotten at times and that was very painful. It seems that the media is covering Jill much more and that makes me very happy. It is a hostage crisis if there is any hostage anywhere... they are all important. I thank the Jawa for always being there to remember Roy . Rusty brought it out in the beginning all the way to the wonderful finish! I am sincerely appreciative of Dr. Rusty. I hope Jill and the others have the same miracle as my family, God Bless, Susan Hallums
Posted by: Susan Hallums at January 22, 2006 02:22 PM (OjS5b)
Posted by: Uribe at January 24, 2006 10:50 PM (qYAl0)
67
We the people of christ, love Jill.
Psalms 31:4 Pull me out of the net that they have laid for me: for thou art my strength.
Psalms 35:17-18 how long wilt thou look on? Rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions. v18 I will give thee thanks in the great congregation: I will praise thee among the people.
Psalms 102:19-20
v19 for he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; form heaven did the LOrd behold the earth; v20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death.
May God himself free Jill.
Psalms 31:4 Pull me out of the net that they have laid for me: for thou art my strength.
Psalms 35:17-18 how long wilt thou look on? Rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions. v18 I will give thee thanks in the great congregation: I will praise thee among the people.
Psalms 102:19-20
v19 for he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; form heaven did the LOrd behold the earth; v20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death.
May God himself free Jill.
Posted by: Rev. Kerry Wayne Mallard at January 25, 2006 06:40 AM (lzC8o)
68
God is with Jill.
I have studied the Bible and I have studied the Quran. I have found them to be quite similar in teachings. Although I view Alison to be somewhat misled, I also view some of you to be misled. I say that respectfully. I must say in Alison’s defense that it is true, Jesus was/is NOT God as most Christians view him. If "Christians" would simply read a Bible without being lazy and allowing priests and pastors etc... to dictate it's meaning to them, they would find this very Truth. We all have the God-given ability to understand for ourselves. Jesus NEVER once proclaimed to be God in the original Bible. Don’t want to trust me just because I’m not YOUR priest or pastor that you’ve blindly trusted? Then I challenge you to go read it for yourself. If you haven’t already studied it for yourSELF, then you don’t have any right to even try to deny what I’m saying.
For 30 years of my life I was told that Jesus was God - and simply because I was told this, I believed that he was (I was raised Catholic and am now of no denomination - just "spiritual"). That UNtruth about Jesus came from another persons understanding instead of my OWN understanding... an untruth that has been handed down from generation to generation. It wasn't going to stop in my family until I picked up a Bible and read it for mySELF. The fear instilled in Christians that they will perish in the afterlife if they don’t believe what someone has told them to believe is what has kept them from leaving the organized religion and from even daring to question it. It was all based on money and organized control. Most Christians are still prisoners of that age-old continuing control. Don’t want to believe me or trust me? I don't blame you - you shouldn't be trusting pastors and priests with your life either. So go get your very own Bible that you do trust and start reading it. I have no desire to convince you – your own Bible will do that if you dare to put down your fear and simply read it. I only suggest you start with the New Testament since that’s where Jesus teaches you about himself and what you need to be doing with your life. Don't trust yourself to understand it for yourself? Then you're not trusting that God has any "power" to help you!! Do you want to believe people - or God? You decide.
To anyone else not hung up on everything I’ve just typed: A simple fact of life has always been, “you can't expect someone else to change when you won't even try to change yourselfâ€. Being a hypocrite is in conducive to anything. There are "religious fanatics" in EVERY religion. Just because there are religious fanatics in every religion, that doesn't make each religion "wrong". There have been just as many "Christian" fanatics killing innocent people in the history of the world as there have been any other type of religious fanatics killing innocent people. Just about every religion has blood on it's hands. Most Christians would simply be appalled at the history of Christianity and the innocent people it has killed simply for not believing in it!!
The place to start in making it all stop is for each of us to take responsibility for our own spirituality... Christians as well as Muslims. Notice I said spirituality and NOT "religion". They are two totally separate things. Even if you never picked up a Bible in your life, or a Quran or any other spiritual teaching material, you STILL have the God-given ability to understand good from bad for your SELF. Live in good conscience. By your example others will follow. Trust that God guides you!!
When people are knocking their heads together on an issue, it's because neither side is being open-minded. If you're being open-minded, then it's IMPOSSIBLE to knock heads with even someone who is trying to knock heads with you. If you feel you are knocking your head with someone else’s head, then therein lies your warning that you are being closed minded.
We have to stop shutting out the Muslim understanding (as well as any other religions understanding) simply because we fear it based on it's fanatics. The basics of every religion (without fanatics) are saying the exact same things. We simply have to find the common everyday language where we ALL realize this fact. There is where peace will begin to flourish.
Alison is having the same problem other people on this blog seem to be having: you can't force your religious opinions on anyone else. It simply doesn't work. You have to take what you've learned in your "religion" and apply it to life in everyday terms. Instead of talking at people with all yer religious mumbo jumbo - bring it down to today’s life and terms! In language we ALL understand. Then, keep in mind, the only thing ANYONE can truly change is themselves. Start with yourSELF.
That's the challenge in the Bible. It's the same challenge in the Quran. Are you willing to make the changes from bad to good in yourSELF that bring you closer to perfection? If not, to coin someone else's quote on here, "you reap what you sow".
Love to all…
God is with Jill.
I have studied the Bible and I have studied the Quran. I have found them to be quite similar in teachings. Although I view Alison to be somewhat misled, I also view some of you to be misled. I say that respectfully. I must say in Alison’s defense that it is true, Jesus was/is NOT God as most Christians view him. If "Christians" would simply read a Bible without being lazy and allowing priests and pastors etc... to dictate it's meaning to them, they would find this very Truth. We all have the God-given ability to understand for ourselves. Jesus NEVER once proclaimed to be God in the original Bible. Don’t want to trust me just because I’m not YOUR priest or pastor that you’ve blindly trusted? Then I challenge you to go read it for yourself. If you haven’t already studied it for yourSELF, then you don’t have any right to even try to deny what I’m saying.
For 30 years of my life I was told that Jesus was God - and simply because I was told this, I believed that he was (I was raised Catholic and am now of no denomination - just "spiritual"). That UNtruth about Jesus came from another persons understanding instead of my OWN understanding... an untruth that has been handed down from generation to generation. It wasn't going to stop in my family until I picked up a Bible and read it for mySELF. The fear instilled in Christians that they will perish in the afterlife if they don’t believe what someone has told them to believe is what has kept them from leaving the organized religion and from even daring to question it. It was all based on money and organized control. Most Christians are still prisoners of that age-old continuing control. Don’t want to believe me or trust me? I don't blame you - you shouldn't be trusting pastors and priests with your life either. So go get your very own Bible that you do trust and start reading it. I have no desire to convince you – your own Bible will do that if you dare to put down your fear and simply read it. I only suggest you start with the New Testament since that’s where Jesus teaches you about himself and what you need to be doing with your life. Don't trust yourself to understand it for yourself? Then you're not trusting that God has any "power" to help you!! Do you want to believe people - or God? You decide.
To anyone else not hung up on everything I’ve just typed: A simple fact of life has always been, “you can't expect someone else to change when you won't even try to change yourselfâ€. Being a hypocrite is in conducive to anything. There are "religious fanatics" in EVERY religion. Just because there are religious fanatics in every religion, that doesn't make each religion "wrong". There have been just as many "Christian" fanatics killing innocent people in the history of the world as there have been any other type of religious fanatics killing innocent people. Just about every religion has blood on it's hands. Most Christians would simply be appalled at the history of Christianity and the innocent people it has killed simply for not believing in it!!
The place to start in making it all stop is for each of us to take responsibility for our own spirituality... Christians as well as Muslims. Notice I said spirituality and NOT "religion". They are two totally separate things. Even if you never picked up a Bible in your life, or a Quran or any other spiritual teaching material, you STILL have the God-given ability to understand good from bad for your SELF. Live in good conscience. By your example others will follow. Trust that God guides you!!
When people are knocking their heads together on an issue, it's because neither side is being open-minded. If you're being open-minded, then it's IMPOSSIBLE to knock heads with even someone who is trying to knock heads with you. If you feel you are knocking your head with someone else’s head, then therein lies your warning that you are being closed minded.
We have to stop shutting out the Muslim understanding (as well as any other religions understanding) simply because we fear it based on it's fanatics. The basics of every religion (without fanatics) are saying the exact same things. We simply have to find the common everyday language where we ALL realize this fact. There is where peace will begin to flourish.
Alison is having the same problem other people on this blog seem to be having: you can't force your religious opinions on anyone else. It simply doesn't work. You have to take what you've learned in your "religion" and apply it to life in everyday terms. Instead of talking at people with all yer religious mumbo jumbo - bring it down to today’s life and terms! In language we ALL understand. Then, keep in mind, the only thing ANYONE can truly change is themselves. Start with yourSELF.
That's the challenge in the Bible. It's the same challenge in the Quran. Are you willing to make the changes from bad to good in yourSELF that bring you closer to perfection? If not, to coin someone else's quote on here, "you reap what you sow".
Love to all…
God is with Jill.
Posted by: Truth at January 25, 2006 03:27 PM (nsEn7)
69
It is apparent that most people here, and around the world, Buddishts, Christians, Muslims, Liberals, Democrats, Homosexuals, Atheists; and all the other labels that people have been slapped with; or they have slapped upon themselves; are ignorant. This is why there is war.
Posted by: Not the Truth at January 26, 2006 04:49 AM (HbFYT)
70
No - it's because there are people pretending to be God by sitting in a "judgment seat" and getting "pissed off" and hateful towards people who don't see everything THEIR way - as if "their way" were the ONLY way; as if "they" are "perfect". NO ONE is perfect! If anyone were perfect, that perfect person wouldn't even be here. Pointing fingers only causes MORE hate. But Loving and at least trying to understand everyone else causes people to open their minds so that the lines of communication stay open and the possibility for positive change can take place.
It's the responsibility of EVERYONE in the world to stop judging. There isn't just one person or group of people or even multiple groups of people with "labels" in the world that are guilty of judging - ALL peoples are doing it. For each of us in the entire world to NOT point our own fingers at ourselves so that we can change the only person that we even CAN change is "ignorance".
It's the responsibility of EVERYONE in the world to stop judging. There isn't just one person or group of people or even multiple groups of people with "labels" in the world that are guilty of judging - ALL peoples are doing it. For each of us in the entire world to NOT point our own fingers at ourselves so that we can change the only person that we even CAN change is "ignorance".
Posted by: Truth at January 26, 2006 12:03 PM (nsEn7)
71
Sometimes it's not enough to speak truth to power; power can be very 'ignorant' when its beliefs and values are called into question. It is the responsibility of every human being to question just how much or how little 'power' they have. It's very bleak when all this strife and unrest is happening at the same time that people around the world are still concerned with their own petty squabbles and inconsequential hate and bitterness. Someone or something has to give in. Will the powers that be do it? Or will we keep fighting for someone else's beliefs? Does open lines of communication instill in everyman the real power to look past their own indignance or does it provide them with more fodder to fuel the flames of their burning desire for vindication? I burn everytime I see people spread hate and fire and believe in its justness and righteousness. And though speaking truth to power may not always be enough, I still believe in its potency and potential.
Posted by: Not the Truth at January 27, 2006 06:34 AM (HbFYT)
72
Truth IS 'power'. But depending on how much faith and understanding you put in knowing it, determines the magnitude of the power.
Then again, this isn't the place that TRUE Truth/power reins. The material world is non-existent in the spiritual world and vice versa. So really, I have no place to speak. I realized this last night. We only dream that we have any sort of control over anything... when really, we don't. All we each can do is continue our own personal journey to what we consider real Truth. My understanding and my process of continuing to understand new things works for ME. Truth is powerful in MY little corner of this world. I've witnessed Love and Truth transform the gravest of situations into what others might call "miracles". But that doesn't necessarily mean my understanding can work on a greater/global scale. I'm not Jesus and I don't think I have enough understanding to be so self-sacrificial for the greater good.
I apologize if I have expressed my opinions disrespectfully here! I think I have a lot of left over passion stirring in me from my initial realization that I had been deceived regarding what the Bible REALLY says. I think that is what provoked me to respond on this blog. I don't know what I thought I would accomplish - I apologize. I need to put it to rest once and for all in my own heart.
If I could speak to Jill I would say: Keep being who you are... it appears that you Love the Truth and have been willing to stand up for it in your life. There is nothing more honorable than that. Hopefully, your captors will realize this and let you continue to help them. I've never met you - but I Love you - you are a wonderful example of what we all should be. I admire you and I pray for your safe return. I also pray that your captors will realize that NOT harming you will help the world to respect them and their cause.
Love to all...
God is with Jill.
Then again, this isn't the place that TRUE Truth/power reins. The material world is non-existent in the spiritual world and vice versa. So really, I have no place to speak. I realized this last night. We only dream that we have any sort of control over anything... when really, we don't. All we each can do is continue our own personal journey to what we consider real Truth. My understanding and my process of continuing to understand new things works for ME. Truth is powerful in MY little corner of this world. I've witnessed Love and Truth transform the gravest of situations into what others might call "miracles". But that doesn't necessarily mean my understanding can work on a greater/global scale. I'm not Jesus and I don't think I have enough understanding to be so self-sacrificial for the greater good.
I apologize if I have expressed my opinions disrespectfully here! I think I have a lot of left over passion stirring in me from my initial realization that I had been deceived regarding what the Bible REALLY says. I think that is what provoked me to respond on this blog. I don't know what I thought I would accomplish - I apologize. I need to put it to rest once and for all in my own heart.
If I could speak to Jill I would say: Keep being who you are... it appears that you Love the Truth and have been willing to stand up for it in your life. There is nothing more honorable than that. Hopefully, your captors will realize this and let you continue to help them. I've never met you - but I Love you - you are a wonderful example of what we all should be. I admire you and I pray for your safe return. I also pray that your captors will realize that NOT harming you will help the world to respect them and their cause.
Love to all...
God is with Jill.
Posted by: Truth at January 27, 2006 03:36 PM (nsEn7)
73
Whoever this Alison is should be taken a prisoner herself. Would her family cheer for her like at a football party if she was flashed acrossed CNN pleading for her life? Why not find out? She has no regard for anyone's rights, feelings or freedoms - but, she has the right to have her own.
Her language skills do not sound like that of an American. Someone before had mentioned that also - good call. Not even a REALLY bad U.S. student. If she hates us, why is she here? For an "education"? If we're so horrible than why can't she educate herself in her own country? Why take a university spot away from an American student?
I am a strong believer in the 1st amendment. I think we all are to some extent. She's not an American. Even if it turns out she has a birth certificate for here, she wouldn't be one because she would be classified as a traitor. So, she's not entitled to the first amendment. It only applies to our citizens. This is also why I am a huge believer in the 2nd amendment. And people that speak like she does make me thankful we have it.
My heart goes out to Jill Carroll's family. No one would want to see their girlfriend, sister, daughter or granddaughter go through this. Nor would they want to endure it. If Alison wants to practice "jihad", go for it. Do it overseas in your "homeland" and take care of the job for us. Not every person who is Islamic is like this. That's sad because we group them in. However, Americans can not tell a good person from a bad person and we're not willing to see another 9/11 if it can be prevented. I think we can all agree.
So Miss Alison, instead of popping a Midol, you should follow in the footsteps of another anti-American extremist. Since you already speak like a genocidal Hitler, pop a cyanide capsule and wait for us to find your body. You give women a bad reputation, you psycho bitch.
Her language skills do not sound like that of an American. Someone before had mentioned that also - good call. Not even a REALLY bad U.S. student. If she hates us, why is she here? For an "education"? If we're so horrible than why can't she educate herself in her own country? Why take a university spot away from an American student?
I am a strong believer in the 1st amendment. I think we all are to some extent. She's not an American. Even if it turns out she has a birth certificate for here, she wouldn't be one because she would be classified as a traitor. So, she's not entitled to the first amendment. It only applies to our citizens. This is also why I am a huge believer in the 2nd amendment. And people that speak like she does make me thankful we have it.
My heart goes out to Jill Carroll's family. No one would want to see their girlfriend, sister, daughter or granddaughter go through this. Nor would they want to endure it. If Alison wants to practice "jihad", go for it. Do it overseas in your "homeland" and take care of the job for us. Not every person who is Islamic is like this. That's sad because we group them in. However, Americans can not tell a good person from a bad person and we're not willing to see another 9/11 if it can be prevented. I think we can all agree.
So Miss Alison, instead of popping a Midol, you should follow in the footsteps of another anti-American extremist. Since you already speak like a genocidal Hitler, pop a cyanide capsule and wait for us to find your body. You give women a bad reputation, you psycho bitch.
Posted by: LNotti1 at January 30, 2006 06:18 PM (xP7vn)
74
Who cares if she's executed???
Why in the hell is she over there???
She SHOULD BE EXECUTED for being so STUPID!
It's a fucking war zone people....Stay out if you don't want to face the consequences.
I have no sympathy for this dumbass.
Why in the hell is she over there???
She SHOULD BE EXECUTED for being so STUPID!
It's a fucking war zone people....Stay out if you don't want to face the consequences.
I have no sympathy for this dumbass.
Posted by: me at January 30, 2006 06:32 PM (c7Ula)
75
I'm not calling her a genius, nor am I saying she should be there. I said it was a rough situation. Very much for her family because they didn't make the choice. My sympathy was with them - reread my words before you twist my words. I have not ripped anyone apart, nor do I plan to. You are an American and I'm an American. I have family that has been KIA for this country and friends and family in Iraq now. My only hatred is for those who plot against us. They are the focus and deserve the nasty shit that's been said. Not those who don't think. I refuse to waste anger on an American who thinks with their ass. They are still one of us. In the long run, that's what matters. When you turn against your own it doesn't make you any better than the terrorists. They turn against their own and strap bombs to their chests. Should she be there? Hell no. It was her choice and now she has consequences. It's out of everyone's hands. Am I going to bash her because she's about to be beheaded? No, because it's not fair to the family. However, to go as far as to say it should be done to her, that's a bit sick. It's like you are endorsing what the terrorists do. It's ok to behead to teach a lesson. It's ok to take down the trade centers because it teaches a lesson. It's time THEY were taught a lesson. Do you honestly think her parents didn't tell her the same shit you said before she left? She should have listened.
Posted by: LNotti1 at January 30, 2006 10:42 PM (llDYC)
76
She obviously went there because she is an activist. She wanted to DO something that was important to her. Many great people with noble causes endanger their lives. That doesn't make them stupid. If more of us would do something instead of complain and argue more would get DONE. People are different, she is exceptional. So is everyone else over there risking their lives. She realized there was a place not so comfortable as her own surroundings and wanted to make a difference against all odds. Everyone has at least one correct piece of this puzzle - if all would listen to one another instead of killing anyone who crosses their own personal line. I am reading the Bible for myself and its interesting you say to start with the NEW TESTAMENT. I believe in starting with the first page. I've been going to church long enough so to me, its the right thing to do. Only, I find the OLD TESTAMENT to be extremely violent so far. For example, when people complain about food, GOD curses them to be so stuffed with food that it comes out of their nostrils. What about babies heads being bashed on rocks?? I look for scientific proof also. We have the dead sea scrolls, Noahs Ark in Turkey, etc. My boyfriend had a highschool teacher who particicipated in the exorcism that the movie was created from. He taught in a private school in Missouri, the exorcism done in St. Louis. The govt says they don't negotiate with terrorists, but in reality they do. The things we know are frightful, but they are only the tip of the iceberg. I have great concern for our children and grandchildren. Surely everyones heard of the New World Order. One or two sites on any topic could be lies, but there are thousands on this one. Current day Babylon is not in Iraq, but America. Bush is, at least was friends with Osama. The FBI even spyed on John Lennon. This govt does not like anyone who promotes peace. God bless this woman, all hostages, and every soul in Iraq and America to do the right thing with their lives.
Posted by: Shewalkslikesumr at January 31, 2006 03:33 AM (yUdEH)
77
It's interesting to observe individual views on this matter. For that I respond.
When I first heard that Jill Carroll was captured I could not avoid thinking about it. I'm well aware of the horrible acts that have taken place up to this point- on America's side and on Iraq's side. It hurt to hear about these events. But this was different.
After witnessing footage of Jill's disappearance, something drifted with me as I went about my week. Never had any news story whispered like this. I had only seen brief footage of her kidnapping. Why did this "mean something to me?"
Days later I witnessed a first video release on the evening news. I didn't know the facts. I didn't know her background. What I did know was that she needed someone. When I looked into her eyes I found myself in her shoes, knowing that if there was one soul who cared for my plea, one soul who "really cared" and didn't forget my name with the news story seeing me as "another hostage" it would count more than life itself.
This is her only hope. This is what the tears in her eyes plead for, as I witnessed tonight, January 30, with a second video release. If I could I would snatch her from that dreadful position right away, not caring about statics, background, or views. She's human. I'm human. That's enough for me.
It has not been the television set that has given life to my thoughts of Jill. The night I saw the first video release I went for a walk in the night, my thoughts far from her captivity.
Then it happened.
I saw her face flash into my mind. I refused to disreguard this "hunch" though it would have been convenient to do so. At that moment I laid aside my exciting plans for the next day and did all I could do: I asked, if it was his will, for God to help her. To set her free.
This is not a story of religion. These are my feelings, plain and simple. I prayed longer that night than I had prayed in years. "Pleaded" would be a more fitting word. With the thought of her I could not refrain from it.
Days went by. I went about life. She was never far. I knew where I was and I knew where she was. She was hanging on to every second as I was sitting comfortably in my bedroom. I cared from the bottom of my heart.
Tonight the same thing is true for all of us. Our lives are not at stake and our hearts aren't beating with fear. Jill has thought of things we haven't even come close to in our lives. Let's keep that in mind.
Everyone here has something important to say. I'm not asking you believe as I believe. I KNOW you desire Jills release. I KNOW your heart goes out to her reguardless of your view. This isn't religion speaking. This is human dignity. We know what we would care about if we were in her shoes: The right to live.
I know the situation isn't hopeless. To some of you that is a crazy thing to say, and it is. But I believe it. There are things we can't explain that live in the realm of possibility. Life teaches us that.
This I leave in closing: "keep her in mind"
It's interesting to observe individual views on this matter. For that I respond.
When I first heard that Jill Carroll was captured I could not avoid thinking about it. I'm well aware of the horrible acts that have taken place up to this point- on America's side and on Iraq's side. It hurt to hear about these events. But this was different.
After witnessing footage of Jill's disappearance, something drifted with me as I went about my week. Never had any news story whispered like this. I had only seen brief footage of her kidnapping. Why did this "mean something to me?"
Days later I witnessed a first video release on the evening news. I didn't know the facts. I didn't know her background. What I did know was that she needed someone. When I looked into her eyes I found myself in her shoes, knowing that if there was one soul who cared for my plea, one soul who "really cared" and didn't forget my name with the news story seeing me as "another hostage" it would count more than life itself.
This is her only hope. This is what the tears in her eyes plead for, as I witnessed tonight, January 30, with a second video release. If I could I would snatch her from that dreadful position right away, not caring about statics, background, or views. She's human. I'm human. That's enough for me.
It has not been the television set that has given life to my thoughts of Jill. The night I saw the first video release I went for a walk in the night, my thoughts far from her captivity.
Then it happened.
I saw her face flash into my mind. I refused to disreguard this "hunch" though it would have been convenient to do so. At that moment I laid aside my exciting plans for the next day and did all I could do: I asked, if it was his will, for God to help her. To set her free.
This is not a story of religion. These are my feelings, plain and simple. I prayed longer that night than I had prayed in years. "Pleaded" would be a more fitting word. With the thought of her I could not refrain from it.
Days went by. I went about life. She was never far. I knew where I was and I knew where she was. She was hanging on to every second as I was sitting comfortably in my bedroom. I cared from the bottom of my heart.
Tonight the same thing is true for all of us. Our lives are not at stake and our hearts aren't beating with fear. Jill has thought of things we haven't even come close to in our lives. Let's keep that in mind.
Everyone here has something important to say. I'm not asking you believe as I believe. I KNOW you desire Jills release. I KNOW your heart goes out to her reguardless of your view. This isn't religion speaking. This is human dignity. We know what we would care about if we were in her shoes: The right to live.
I know the situation isn't hopeless. To some of you that is a crazy thing to say, and it is. But I believe it. There are things we can't explain that live in the realm of possibility. Life teaches us that.
This I leave in closing: "keep her in mind"
Posted by: Michael at January 31, 2006 03:40 AM (sK19L)
78
I saw Jill's tears in the last video recorded by terrorists: it is a shame their behaviour!
I know nothing about Jill, besides I'm an Italian citizen not an American one, but when I saw the video, my first feeling was rage. How is it possible so much hate to a person? Terrorists are men like the others: we have the same heart, but they comletely forgot it and could be ready to die for their idea.
The only thing I can do now is praying for her and maybe, when she is freed, she will read this message.
God bless you, dear Jill
I know nothing about Jill, besides I'm an Italian citizen not an American one, but when I saw the video, my first feeling was rage. How is it possible so much hate to a person? Terrorists are men like the others: we have the same heart, but they comletely forgot it and could be ready to die for their idea.
The only thing I can do now is praying for her and maybe, when she is freed, she will read this message.
God bless you, dear Jill
Posted by: Dario at January 31, 2006 06:25 AM (kRZUP)
79
I read only now the Alison's message..
I remember you that God created everything for life not for death. Infact, also who lives for death(like the terrorists) wants to say something positive, because Man wants to be happy!
So, terrorists surely want to be happy but think that their happyness consists in imposing their idea.
And this is an error!
Always men thought that the only way to save the humanity consists in killing a part of men. This is false, infact we have a lot of examples: the French revolution, the Russian revolution, Auschwitz: they are illusions!
No, the world is always the same, and the evil is the same. The evil in the world didn't die, and all of us can do it: How many times I love a person but sometimes I don't treat her well, although I love her. There is only a hope for our world: that God comes in the Earth to help us.
There is only a fact in the humanity in which God didn't kill a part of men to save the world, on the contrary died for evey man, and then raised again to show us that He is stronger than death. This is not an idea, but is a fact. You can believe in it or not, but it is a fact!
Bye and sorry for my English
I remember you that God created everything for life not for death. Infact, also who lives for death(like the terrorists) wants to say something positive, because Man wants to be happy!
So, terrorists surely want to be happy but think that their happyness consists in imposing their idea.
And this is an error!
Always men thought that the only way to save the humanity consists in killing a part of men. This is false, infact we have a lot of examples: the French revolution, the Russian revolution, Auschwitz: they are illusions!
No, the world is always the same, and the evil is the same. The evil in the world didn't die, and all of us can do it: How many times I love a person but sometimes I don't treat her well, although I love her. There is only a hope for our world: that God comes in the Earth to help us.
There is only a fact in the humanity in which God didn't kill a part of men to save the world, on the contrary died for evey man, and then raised again to show us that He is stronger than death. This is not an idea, but is a fact. You can believe in it or not, but it is a fact!
Bye and sorry for my English
Posted by: Dario at January 31, 2006 07:01 AM (kRZUP)
80
I just reread what Alison posted on here. First I decided that I had forgotten what she had typed... then, before I began to read it all again, I realized that I should keep an open mind and really try hard to understand what she was saying since her English isn't so good. I decided it was only "fair" and that it couldn't do any harm to just simply keep my own mind open. That's what I always hope for people who are listening to me or reading me to do for me as well... so it was only fair.
Now it seems to me that, because of the broken English, Alison's meaning behind her words can easily be misunderstood. Compounding that problem is the fact that she comes across as "accusing" by using the word "you" a lot. What Alison may not understand is that most people don't like to be accused of anything and once they have been, they immediately put themselves on the defense. That's just human nature. So it's not a good thing to help people be defensive by accusing them of anything when what you really want to do is help people understand what you understand - especially if what you are saying truly is good.
Ok... so I got past the broken English and then I got past the accusations and I read in-between all those things. And now what it's sounding like she is saying is that she sees there are bad people of every nationality and creed etc... just as there are good people of every nationality and creed etc... and that she is standing up for all of the GOOD Muslims, not the bad ones. She agrees that people who do bad things are not worthy of God's Love and protection. And this all seems to be the same things everyone else on here is saying, just in broken English and with accusations that put people on the defense.
She's also talking about the wrath of God - which most people believe in as well - and that it will effect ALL "bad" people, bad Muslims as well as bad Christians etc... and that the bad people won't be able to escape it. However, the good people will be protected because God "knows his own" kinda thing... and she's not just talking about good Muslims either, she is also saying that ALL good people of all nations and creeds etc... will be protected. She refers to this sort of thing as the "truth" that she knows and she's warning everyone - much the same way the Bible does.
She's also appealing to Christians to understand that the Quran talks about Jesus and that Muhammad (the writer of the Quran) teaches that anyone who doesn't believe the things Jesus taught is not a true and good Muslim. She agrees and is empathizing with Christians to try and show that she is not attacking them, rather she believes Jesus' teachings. Although, she disagrees with the thought that Jesus was/is "God". Which is the same thing a lot of "spiritual" American's understand as well. As I do myself.
She's also trying to explain something she claims to understand about "Bush and Bin". She's trying to warn EVERYONE that Bush and Bin are both being misled and therefore they are misleading everyone else. She doesn't agree with EITHER ONE of them! And she reiterates that she is all for only what is good - as God wants her to be and she appeals to everyone to be the same way else they "reap what they sow" kinda thing.
Basically, she's saying everything we are all saying. Only we couldn't get past the broken English and the number of times she used the word "you" and "evil" and "satan" and "Allah" etc... it's a problem with semantics... not what she's actually saying.
It's no wonder a person gets frustrated enough to turn hateful over simple misunderstandings of semantics. This proves the same thing I said before though: we have to stop using words from the Bible or the Quran to try and communicate with! We HAVE to bring it down into simple terms that we ALL understand - like "good", "bad" and "indifferent" etc... so people will stop being defensive and so it doesn't look like we are pointing fingers thus putting people on the defense.
Alison, are you reading me??? I hear what you are saying! And I see how badly you want to help and get your understanding across to people... but if you truly want to help, then you have to be careful that you are not appearing to put blame on people - because then they won't listen to what you are trying to say - they will close their minds to you instead of opening them to you (that's just human nature) - and then it won't be only their fault that they are not understanding you, it will be your fault too because you "blamed" them instead of "Loved" them. "Communicating" isn't just all about whether or not other people HEAR you - you also have to take responsibility for HOW you are saying what you want to say. And, if you truly want to be a good Muslim and believe as the Quran teaches - then yes, you have to also believe what Jesus taught - and one of the MAIN things Jesus taught was to LOVE EVERYONE - even those that PERSECUTE you!!!! When Jesus was killed/persecuted, he CONTINUED to LOVE even the men that HATED him and sentenced him to death. He did everything he could to UNDERSTAND them and their point of view even though they didn’t understand him. He never had anything bad to say about them and he NEVER ONCE said anything bad to their face either! He TRULY LOVED them all the way down deep in his HEART! He even secretly prayed to God and said, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do". He didn't say it TO them - he said it to GOD only. He said it in his HEART. And in case you don't understand what that means, I'll tell you how I understand it and maybe that will help you draw your own conclusion: I think it means he truly wished them no harm... not from him or from God, especially since he knew that they just didn't understand and therefore didn't really deserve for bad things to happen to them for what they were doing. He wished them only good. Alison, Muhammad teaches this very same thing. Say what you have to say with nothing but LOVE in your heart, as Jesus did, and people will begin to understand what you are saying. And they should, because it seems to me you are saying good things - just maybe in a not so good way.
Alison, think about what you said, "Americans must reestablish a new government and Islam must establish a new Jihad with principles by the Quran only." You're leaving out something from the Muslim religion! Don't forget that Muhammad also teaches Muslims to be like Jesus! How can Muslims be like Jesus unless they study what Jesus taught as well as study the Quran? According to Muhammad (since he teaches to also follow Jesus' teachings), the Jihad should be based on BOTH the Quran AND Jesus' teachings! Jesus' MAIN message is to LOVE EVERYONE! Although he taught so much more.
I hope I haven't come across as a bad person. I'm trying really hard here to be careful to not point fingers at anyone yet to say plainly what I understand so hopefully it all makes sense to everyone. Alison, I’m really trying hard to do my part by studying the Bible AND the Quran and to understand ALL people’s points of view. I just want to ask, do you think the “good Muslims†that you speak of are doing the same thing? Are they also trying to be like Jesus as well as Muhammad? Because I think that’s what we have to do in order to make a difference, don’t you?
Now it seems to me that, because of the broken English, Alison's meaning behind her words can easily be misunderstood. Compounding that problem is the fact that she comes across as "accusing" by using the word "you" a lot. What Alison may not understand is that most people don't like to be accused of anything and once they have been, they immediately put themselves on the defense. That's just human nature. So it's not a good thing to help people be defensive by accusing them of anything when what you really want to do is help people understand what you understand - especially if what you are saying truly is good.
Ok... so I got past the broken English and then I got past the accusations and I read in-between all those things. And now what it's sounding like she is saying is that she sees there are bad people of every nationality and creed etc... just as there are good people of every nationality and creed etc... and that she is standing up for all of the GOOD Muslims, not the bad ones. She agrees that people who do bad things are not worthy of God's Love and protection. And this all seems to be the same things everyone else on here is saying, just in broken English and with accusations that put people on the defense.
She's also talking about the wrath of God - which most people believe in as well - and that it will effect ALL "bad" people, bad Muslims as well as bad Christians etc... and that the bad people won't be able to escape it. However, the good people will be protected because God "knows his own" kinda thing... and she's not just talking about good Muslims either, she is also saying that ALL good people of all nations and creeds etc... will be protected. She refers to this sort of thing as the "truth" that she knows and she's warning everyone - much the same way the Bible does.
She's also appealing to Christians to understand that the Quran talks about Jesus and that Muhammad (the writer of the Quran) teaches that anyone who doesn't believe the things Jesus taught is not a true and good Muslim. She agrees and is empathizing with Christians to try and show that she is not attacking them, rather she believes Jesus' teachings. Although, she disagrees with the thought that Jesus was/is "God". Which is the same thing a lot of "spiritual" American's understand as well. As I do myself.
She's also trying to explain something she claims to understand about "Bush and Bin". She's trying to warn EVERYONE that Bush and Bin are both being misled and therefore they are misleading everyone else. She doesn't agree with EITHER ONE of them! And she reiterates that she is all for only what is good - as God wants her to be and she appeals to everyone to be the same way else they "reap what they sow" kinda thing.
Basically, she's saying everything we are all saying. Only we couldn't get past the broken English and the number of times she used the word "you" and "evil" and "satan" and "Allah" etc... it's a problem with semantics... not what she's actually saying.
It's no wonder a person gets frustrated enough to turn hateful over simple misunderstandings of semantics. This proves the same thing I said before though: we have to stop using words from the Bible or the Quran to try and communicate with! We HAVE to bring it down into simple terms that we ALL understand - like "good", "bad" and "indifferent" etc... so people will stop being defensive and so it doesn't look like we are pointing fingers thus putting people on the defense.
Alison, are you reading me??? I hear what you are saying! And I see how badly you want to help and get your understanding across to people... but if you truly want to help, then you have to be careful that you are not appearing to put blame on people - because then they won't listen to what you are trying to say - they will close their minds to you instead of opening them to you (that's just human nature) - and then it won't be only their fault that they are not understanding you, it will be your fault too because you "blamed" them instead of "Loved" them. "Communicating" isn't just all about whether or not other people HEAR you - you also have to take responsibility for HOW you are saying what you want to say. And, if you truly want to be a good Muslim and believe as the Quran teaches - then yes, you have to also believe what Jesus taught - and one of the MAIN things Jesus taught was to LOVE EVERYONE - even those that PERSECUTE you!!!! When Jesus was killed/persecuted, he CONTINUED to LOVE even the men that HATED him and sentenced him to death. He did everything he could to UNDERSTAND them and their point of view even though they didn’t understand him. He never had anything bad to say about them and he NEVER ONCE said anything bad to their face either! He TRULY LOVED them all the way down deep in his HEART! He even secretly prayed to God and said, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do". He didn't say it TO them - he said it to GOD only. He said it in his HEART. And in case you don't understand what that means, I'll tell you how I understand it and maybe that will help you draw your own conclusion: I think it means he truly wished them no harm... not from him or from God, especially since he knew that they just didn't understand and therefore didn't really deserve for bad things to happen to them for what they were doing. He wished them only good. Alison, Muhammad teaches this very same thing. Say what you have to say with nothing but LOVE in your heart, as Jesus did, and people will begin to understand what you are saying. And they should, because it seems to me you are saying good things - just maybe in a not so good way.
Alison, think about what you said, "Americans must reestablish a new government and Islam must establish a new Jihad with principles by the Quran only." You're leaving out something from the Muslim religion! Don't forget that Muhammad also teaches Muslims to be like Jesus! How can Muslims be like Jesus unless they study what Jesus taught as well as study the Quran? According to Muhammad (since he teaches to also follow Jesus' teachings), the Jihad should be based on BOTH the Quran AND Jesus' teachings! Jesus' MAIN message is to LOVE EVERYONE! Although he taught so much more.
I hope I haven't come across as a bad person. I'm trying really hard here to be careful to not point fingers at anyone yet to say plainly what I understand so hopefully it all makes sense to everyone. Alison, I’m really trying hard to do my part by studying the Bible AND the Quran and to understand ALL people’s points of view. I just want to ask, do you think the “good Muslims†that you speak of are doing the same thing? Are they also trying to be like Jesus as well as Muhammad? Because I think that’s what we have to do in order to make a difference, don’t you?
Posted by: Truth at January 31, 2006 01:12 PM (nsEn7)
81
Michael...
Your words could have very well been my own. You put it so perfectly! I can't stop thinking about her either - and I won't, as long as I know in my heart that it is doing some good. And it is... I'm sure! We are her. We are all one.
Your words could have very well been my own. You put it so perfectly! I can't stop thinking about her either - and I won't, as long as I know in my heart that it is doing some good. And it is... I'm sure! We are her. We are all one.
Posted by: Truth at January 31, 2006 05:46 PM (d4HNT)
Posted by: Michael at February 01, 2006 12:42 AM (sK19L)
83
I thought this was about Jill but just like everything else, the religious zealots have to shove their agendas/ideologies down our throats every chance they get. When is everyone going to wake up and smell the coffee there is no GOD !!! nor has there ever been We are all ALONE!!! Now and Forever so deal with it. Why is that so hard to accept?
Maybe if people focused more on how to deal with this life and not some so called promised after-life we wouldn’t be in this situation. Religion makes me sick. The answer our current problems is the annihilation of the entire human race. This planet needs a hard reset. Can you say Ice Age! F you all!
Maybe if people focused more on how to deal with this life and not some so called promised after-life we wouldn’t be in this situation. Religion makes me sick. The answer our current problems is the annihilation of the entire human race. This planet needs a hard reset. Can you say Ice Age! F you all!
Posted by: DOG at February 01, 2006 04:16 PM (bG/YT)
84
This goes out to Dog,
My name is Michael. Your previous comment suggests you believe in no God. I respect your believe.
Your words do more "shoving" than anything posted. Just as you "believe" there is no God, others believe in the possibility of God. Don't mistake "honest belief" for "zealot belief".
I do more thinking of today than tomorrow. I do more thinking of Jill than the afterlife. Your words were ironic to hear, because "dealing with this life" and dealing with today is the only way we can ever grow. That's the only way I've come to believe principles my "open" mind has weighed for itself.
I know the people you speak of. Don't mistake one for another. By shoving upon others what you "BELIEVE"(there is no God, ect.), you become the very thing you claim to detest.
Religion does not make you sick. The way people think is what makes you sick. Many are not open minded. I can stand with you on this matter. Lack of curiosity creates a state of mind that blocks out growth. I like to say "now is forever".
And this about Jill, here and now. The best way I've come to deal with what frustrates you is by holding to the confidence in my own heart. And I AM confident that there is HOPE for Jill. I AM confident that those who hold her in their thoughts make a difference. I DO believe in possibilities beyond our comprehension, standing confidently in the light that you don't.
It's easy to accept hopelessness. It requires no strength. It's easy to say everything is meaningless. It requires no thought. Religion has nothing to do with this situation. It never did and never has with anything else in history. Only thoughts and intentions. Religion defines nothing. It is only a word used in conjunction with someone's mentality. "People" make or break this world. And everybody has thier own thoughts and beliefs in life, reguardless of what "religion" they claim to be.
Let's focus our "thoughts and intentions" on Jill Carroll.
My name is Michael. Your previous comment suggests you believe in no God. I respect your believe.
Your words do more "shoving" than anything posted. Just as you "believe" there is no God, others believe in the possibility of God. Don't mistake "honest belief" for "zealot belief".
I do more thinking of today than tomorrow. I do more thinking of Jill than the afterlife. Your words were ironic to hear, because "dealing with this life" and dealing with today is the only way we can ever grow. That's the only way I've come to believe principles my "open" mind has weighed for itself.
I know the people you speak of. Don't mistake one for another. By shoving upon others what you "BELIEVE"(there is no God, ect.), you become the very thing you claim to detest.
Religion does not make you sick. The way people think is what makes you sick. Many are not open minded. I can stand with you on this matter. Lack of curiosity creates a state of mind that blocks out growth. I like to say "now is forever".
And this about Jill, here and now. The best way I've come to deal with what frustrates you is by holding to the confidence in my own heart. And I AM confident that there is HOPE for Jill. I AM confident that those who hold her in their thoughts make a difference. I DO believe in possibilities beyond our comprehension, standing confidently in the light that you don't.
It's easy to accept hopelessness. It requires no strength. It's easy to say everything is meaningless. It requires no thought. Religion has nothing to do with this situation. It never did and never has with anything else in history. Only thoughts and intentions. Religion defines nothing. It is only a word used in conjunction with someone's mentality. "People" make or break this world. And everybody has thier own thoughts and beliefs in life, reguardless of what "religion" they claim to be.
Let's focus our "thoughts and intentions" on Jill Carroll.
Posted by: Michael at February 02, 2006 04:09 AM (sK19L)
85
Well said Michael!
Posted by: Truth at February 03, 2006 04:13 PM (nsEn7)
86
I have prayed often for Jill during this trial but more importantly, I have prayed for her capitors. I believe she is still alive because God has heard my prayers along with millions of others of us. The men who are holding Jill have hearts and minds like all the rest of us...God will somehow, someway, impress on one of the captors that what they are doing is wrong - no matter what religious belief he shares. Every day until Jill is released, I will continue to pray for the men who hold her captive...
Posted by: StarLitSky at February 03, 2006 04:41 PM (An+H1)
87
I love the strengh that good people can bring out. This is the kind of strengh that makes a difference.
Posted by: Michael at February 04, 2006 01:34 AM (17R3T)
88
STRENGTH! My mistake.
Posted by: Michael at February 04, 2006 01:35 AM (17R3T)
89
What I meant was "STRENTH". My mistake, though you probably knew what I meant.
Meaning is the main thing.
Meaning is the main thing.
Posted by: Michael at February 04, 2006 01:48 AM (17R3T)
90
O.K., for the last time S T R E N G T H .
Posted by: Michael at February 04, 2006 01:53 AM (17R3T)
91
For anyone who has said something reasonable here, thank you. For anyone who hasn't turned this board into something other than what it should be, thank you. Jill is a friend of a friend.
Posted by: izzy at February 06, 2006 03:53 PM (Rq4Bo)
92
lol Michael
Posted by: Truth at February 07, 2006 04:07 PM (nsEn7)
93
hmm...
Posted by: Clyde at February 07, 2006 08:40 PM (gWDLm)
94
Truth, yes I read and I thank you for your understanding in all matters all thanks to Allah.
I feel the way I write if I do not get too proper all can understand me as you ere able to the ones that will understand me are the ones that want to understand even if I spoke a different language then anyone if any one really wants to understand in for the good Allah is all know er Allah is all wise he will make it so all can understand.
But anything that is good in this world is hard work bad is easy.
It is all up to us as individuals as to what we want and what we do about it.
I feel the way I write if I do not get too proper all can understand me as you ere able to the ones that will understand me are the ones that want to understand even if I spoke a different language then anyone if any one really wants to understand in for the good Allah is all know er Allah is all wise he will make it so all can understand.
But anything that is good in this world is hard work bad is easy.
It is all up to us as individuals as to what we want and what we do about it.
Posted by: Alison Shunstrom at February 07, 2006 09:53 PM (Ffvoi)
95
But I can tell all people in the world this that the ultimate reason for most negative and fighting among each other then the evil that conflicts it is us as brother and sister in a home one trying to get our parents attention always trying to be better then the other so we get noticed no matter what way we do it is always for recognition and mentally this is what is happening between each of us fighting as brothers and sisters trying to win Allah's Love trying to get his attention this is what it all comes down to atleast for the good ones this is what it comes down to.
But if we think about this and picture it and care enough to understand it you will see that this is the truth.
What Allah our one GOD wants as our parents want is for each of us to get along to make Allah proud of us as brothers and sisters and some times we are being selfish and UN appreciative that we do not even think of why we do what we do and most to even think about why they would simple feel to bad and hurt for the way they have acted that it would hurt them too much to consider to change and admit and accept the truth so they go and ignore to try to hide their true feelings and the truth.
But if we think about this and picture it and care enough to understand it you will see that this is the truth.
What Allah our one GOD wants as our parents want is for each of us to get along to make Allah proud of us as brothers and sisters and some times we are being selfish and UN appreciative that we do not even think of why we do what we do and most to even think about why they would simple feel to bad and hurt for the way they have acted that it would hurt them too much to consider to change and admit and accept the truth so they go and ignore to try to hide their true feelings and the truth.
Posted by: Alison Shunstrom at February 07, 2006 10:06 PM (Ffvoi)
96
So what do you think Clyde?
Posted by: Michael at February 08, 2006 01:36 AM (17R3T)
97
I think I'm about ready to go to sleep...
Posted by: Clyde at February 08, 2006 09:29 PM (gWDLm)
98
I've been thinking a lot about that "Dog" person's comment on here. Funny how he/she used the word "God" backwards as a name for posting on here!
I just simply can't see any logic in his/her comments. I always pride myself on being able to put myself in another person's shoes and see how they see things - and I guess I can understand how he/she is frustrated... but still, ALL of these issues - ESPECIALLY "religion" are important when talking about Jill.
Jill has respected the Muslim religion. She appears to me to be a very open minded person, which, that in itself, warrants respect for her choices. Since Jill has been open minded enough to show respect for the Muslim religion, then that should warrant our respect for it as well... or at LEAST an open minded approach to even the possibility that there must be some importance and relevance in it! So I just have to rule out "Dog"s comments as being just plain ignorance and/or fear from ignorance.
Religion IS what even Jill's situation is ALL about. To NOT discuss it while discussing Jill would be "wrong"! When we can break down the barriers that "religions" have placed between us, then there won't even be any situations like what the world has been dealing with since 9/11.
The Islamic culture feels misunderstood... and they ARE!! Thus they are lashing out. And at the same time we are misunderstood TOO! So we are lashing out as well. "Religion" plays a HUGH role. It HAS to be discussed, EVERYWHERE, in order to dispel fears and misunderstandings!
Maybe I can help in even a small way... is there anyone here reading this that doesn't know much about the Muslim religion and who maybe has some fear about it or just some questions that maybe I can help explain? I'm not a Muslim, but I have studied the Quran... maybe I can help by explaining in UNbroken English, in terms American's are used to hearing.
I just simply can't see any logic in his/her comments. I always pride myself on being able to put myself in another person's shoes and see how they see things - and I guess I can understand how he/she is frustrated... but still, ALL of these issues - ESPECIALLY "religion" are important when talking about Jill.
Jill has respected the Muslim religion. She appears to me to be a very open minded person, which, that in itself, warrants respect for her choices. Since Jill has been open minded enough to show respect for the Muslim religion, then that should warrant our respect for it as well... or at LEAST an open minded approach to even the possibility that there must be some importance and relevance in it! So I just have to rule out "Dog"s comments as being just plain ignorance and/or fear from ignorance.
Religion IS what even Jill's situation is ALL about. To NOT discuss it while discussing Jill would be "wrong"! When we can break down the barriers that "religions" have placed between us, then there won't even be any situations like what the world has been dealing with since 9/11.
The Islamic culture feels misunderstood... and they ARE!! Thus they are lashing out. And at the same time we are misunderstood TOO! So we are lashing out as well. "Religion" plays a HUGH role. It HAS to be discussed, EVERYWHERE, in order to dispel fears and misunderstandings!
Maybe I can help in even a small way... is there anyone here reading this that doesn't know much about the Muslim religion and who maybe has some fear about it or just some questions that maybe I can help explain? I'm not a Muslim, but I have studied the Quran... maybe I can help by explaining in UNbroken English, in terms American's are used to hearing.
Posted by: Truth at February 09, 2006 04:25 PM (nsEn7)
99
Alison:
You're right about people understanding you if they want to understand you. But you still have to take responsibility for EXPRESSING GOD/Allah. It's not enough to just KNOW God/Allah - we also have to EXPRESS God/Allah. If we're not expressing God/Allah, then God/Allah isn't truly WITH us! It isn't enough to just KNOW what's in the Quran or Bible... we also have to LIVE it. Just telling other people HOW to be or even going through rituals that SHOW we know about God/Allah (like kneeling down and praying) isn't enough - we must also BE it all the way down deep in our hearts and souls!! If not, then we are doing the OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught. Jesus taught us to not only make clean the outside of our bodies, but also the INSIDE as well. That means our hearts. We have to BE what we want the rest of the world to BE. Does that make sense?
We can't just say whatever we feel like saying and then leave it up to some magical "being" outside of our self to make it all come out right. We have to take RESPONSIBILITY for expressing God/Allah correctly. And that means doing it with nothing but Love and respect for not only ourselves but for EVERYONE around us. Do you like trying to guess at what people are saying? I'll bet not. So then you shouldn't expect other people to guess at what you are saying either. And you can't just say "Oh well, Allah must not want them to understand." That's not fair to Allah. Allah gave us the intelligence and the patience to choose our words wisely - if we don't, then we are being lazy. It's like you said, "... anything that is good in this world is hard work, bad is easy." We can't take the "easy" way out. We have to do the "hard" work and WORK at expressing ourselves in ways that others can understand.
I'll leave you with your own thought, "It's all up to us as individuals as to what we want and what we do about it." What do you really want?
You're right about people understanding you if they want to understand you. But you still have to take responsibility for EXPRESSING GOD/Allah. It's not enough to just KNOW God/Allah - we also have to EXPRESS God/Allah. If we're not expressing God/Allah, then God/Allah isn't truly WITH us! It isn't enough to just KNOW what's in the Quran or Bible... we also have to LIVE it. Just telling other people HOW to be or even going through rituals that SHOW we know about God/Allah (like kneeling down and praying) isn't enough - we must also BE it all the way down deep in our hearts and souls!! If not, then we are doing the OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught. Jesus taught us to not only make clean the outside of our bodies, but also the INSIDE as well. That means our hearts. We have to BE what we want the rest of the world to BE. Does that make sense?
We can't just say whatever we feel like saying and then leave it up to some magical "being" outside of our self to make it all come out right. We have to take RESPONSIBILITY for expressing God/Allah correctly. And that means doing it with nothing but Love and respect for not only ourselves but for EVERYONE around us. Do you like trying to guess at what people are saying? I'll bet not. So then you shouldn't expect other people to guess at what you are saying either. And you can't just say "Oh well, Allah must not want them to understand." That's not fair to Allah. Allah gave us the intelligence and the patience to choose our words wisely - if we don't, then we are being lazy. It's like you said, "... anything that is good in this world is hard work, bad is easy." We can't take the "easy" way out. We have to do the "hard" work and WORK at expressing ourselves in ways that others can understand.
I'll leave you with your own thought, "It's all up to us as individuals as to what we want and what we do about it." What do you really want?
Posted by: Truth at February 09, 2006 04:50 PM (nsEn7)
100
Alison:
I like the things you said in your last comment. It seemed clear to understand. I agree with what you are saying too. But there is something I understand differently... I think people are wrong for trying to please God as if God were something outside of us. Do you know what I mean?
God isn't outside of us. There isn't anything to "please" on the outside of us, other than other people. This is where I think so many religions have it "wrong". They paint a picture of there being some person type of God who is separate from us that can point a finger and make some sort of magic happen. I don't agree with that. I see it as a very wrong concept.
I see God as being a PART of us - not separate from us. We choose to express God or we choose not to express God. Period. No magic. We're in control of it. God is something to be expressed - not seen as if God were a separate being apart from us. This is why "no one has ever SEEN God". The closest anyone can come to "seeing" God as a separate being from us is to "see" God in a flower, a bird or in the eyes of a child kind of thing. It's LOVE, beauty, care, principle, harmony etc... There are 7 synonyms used in the Bible to describe God, and they are: Life, Love, Truth, Mind, Soul, Principle, Spirit... none of which are TANGIBLE "things" or "beings". God is not material. So to even try to "win God's attention" as if God were separate from us is silly. We're not in "competition" with each other - we ARE each other!
But I think you're right - what you said IS what people are thinking - but I know all the way down in my heart that they are wrong and that's why all of their efforts to "win God's attention" don't work
It just ends in disaster. So we have to help in anyway we can to help people understand that trying to "win God's attention" isn't even going to work in the first place. We have to express God in order to know God.
I like the things you said in your last comment. It seemed clear to understand. I agree with what you are saying too. But there is something I understand differently... I think people are wrong for trying to please God as if God were something outside of us. Do you know what I mean?
God isn't outside of us. There isn't anything to "please" on the outside of us, other than other people. This is where I think so many religions have it "wrong". They paint a picture of there being some person type of God who is separate from us that can point a finger and make some sort of magic happen. I don't agree with that. I see it as a very wrong concept.
I see God as being a PART of us - not separate from us. We choose to express God or we choose not to express God. Period. No magic. We're in control of it. God is something to be expressed - not seen as if God were a separate being apart from us. This is why "no one has ever SEEN God". The closest anyone can come to "seeing" God as a separate being from us is to "see" God in a flower, a bird or in the eyes of a child kind of thing. It's LOVE, beauty, care, principle, harmony etc... There are 7 synonyms used in the Bible to describe God, and they are: Life, Love, Truth, Mind, Soul, Principle, Spirit... none of which are TANGIBLE "things" or "beings". God is not material. So to even try to "win God's attention" as if God were separate from us is silly. We're not in "competition" with each other - we ARE each other!
But I think you're right - what you said IS what people are thinking - but I know all the way down in my heart that they are wrong and that's why all of their efforts to "win God's attention" don't work
It just ends in disaster. So we have to help in anyway we can to help people understand that trying to "win God's attention" isn't even going to work in the first place. We have to express God in order to know God.
Posted by: Truth at February 09, 2006 05:09 PM (nsEn7)
101
I think Jill was expressing God with her work in Iraq. That's the hope that I hang onto that she will be fine.
Posted by: Truth at February 09, 2006 05:11 PM (nsEn7)
102
Are you going to let him get away with that gramma?
Posted by: Truth at February 09, 2006 06:05 PM (d4HNT)
Posted by: Gramma at February 09, 2006 06:08 PM (d4HNT)
Posted by: Gramma at February 09, 2006 06:08 PM (d4HNT)
105
What In The Blue Hell Was That???
Posted by: Clyde at February 10, 2006 03:06 AM (gWDLm)
106
lol
Posted by: Truth at February 10, 2006 12:03 PM (nsEn7)
107
Anybody got $10 bucks I could borrow?
Posted by: Clyde at February 18, 2006 07:35 PM (y2xyn)
January 10, 2006
U.S. Forces Raid Umm al-Qura Mosque
U.S. forces raided Baghdad's Umm al-Qura mosque Sunday after receiving a tip that activities related to Jill Carroll's kidnapping were going on inside:
ABC Online—Sunni Arabs in Iraq have branded a US raid on a mosque complex a "sinful assault" and say it will worsen their relations with the US military.
The United Nations (UN) has also criticised Sunday's military operation.
Sunni Arab political parties say the raid on the Baghdad offices of the influential Muslim Clerics Association targeted the clergy and violated a place of worship.
Witnesses say US soldiers slid down ropes from helicopters as troops on the ground burst into the mosque complex, blowing doors off hinges and ransacking offices.
It came two days before the major religious holiday of Eid al-Adha.
A UN statement from the office of special envoy Ashraf Qazi says he "noted with regret the incident at the Umm al-Qora mosque" and that it "underlined the importance of all parties respecting the sanctity of holy sites and places of worship".
A UN spokeswoman, amplifying the statement, says Mr Qazi was referring specifically to the US and Iraqi military operation. ...
The United Nations criticized the raid. I say leave no stone unturned ...
Resources:
These images show that the Umm al-Qura mosque is very near the Al-Adel district where Jill Carroll was kidnapped:
Satellite image: Umm al-Qura mosque
Satellite image: Umm al-Qura mosque/Al-Adel district in west Baghdad
Google maps: Al-Adel district in west Baghdad
Cross-posted at OpinionBug.com
Related at Rocket's Brain Trust
Update (1/10/2006 9:37pm):
Here is a story about SRSG Ashraf Qazi's reaction to the Umm al-Qura raid:
UN—Reacting to an incident at the Umm al-Qura mosque in Iraq, the senior United Nations envoy to the country today stressed that all parties must honour the sanctity of holy sites.
In a statement released in Baghdad, Ashraf Qazi voiced regret at the event yesterday, when some security forces entered the mosque.
Mr. Qazi called on the responsible authorities to ensure that the issue is investigated as quickly and transparently as possible.
This incident, following others in recent weeks involving places of worship, should serve as a reminder of the need to eschew violence and build mutual trust and confidence, Mr. Qazi said, calling on all concerned to support a fully inclusive political process that would increase stability and a peaceful future for the people of Iraq. ...
Before I blow a gasket I want to respond to Mr. Qazi's outrageous remarks.
Mr. Qazi, a "holy" site becomes unholy when it allows terrorists to defile it.
Mr. Qazi, the raid on the Umm al-Qura mosque was the direct result of intelligence that indicated activities related to Jill Carroll's kidnapping were going on inside.
Mr. Qazi, a young woman was kidnapped and her companion murdered in cold-blood and you express regret and call for an investigation into a raid whose sole purpose was to possibly rescue her? How dare you Sir!
And Mr. Qazi, you say the raid on Umm al-Qura should be a reminder of the need to eschew violence and build mutual trust and confidence? Eschew violence? How dare you Sir! What about the senseless violence directed at Jill Carroll? What about the blood of Alan John Ghazi spilled on an al-Adel street!
With all due respect Sir, your remarks are about as asinine as any I've ever read. And by them, you make yourself a part of the problem rather than a part of its solution.
"Leave no stone unturned."
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Who gives a shit about their stupid f'ing religion! If they are doing anything terroristy in a mosque, it is fair game. Bomb the place. At this point, is there really any hope of mending the schism between the west and Islamofascism anyway? NO! So let loose the tomahawks and to hell with those hadjis. If their religion was so sacred, they wouldn't use the mosques as rallying points for insurgents and IEDs anyway. Violence is the only thing these people understand, so lets oblige them. Enough pussyfooting around; we need to take lessons from the Israelis and simply brutalize these people. Beat them into submission. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am so f'ing sick of these people kidnapping and killing noncombatants, planting roadside bombs and all manner of other cowardly shit, staging all of it from mosques, and then becoming outraged when these same mosques are targeted for raids. Are IQs just lower in that part of the world? It is the same logic that makes them think it is their duty to come to America to destroy buildings, which is cool, but the thought of an infidel in the holy land is cause enough do do what? Come to America and destroy buildings. Beheading someone in the name if Islam is cool, but conducting a search of a mosque is a inconsolable outrage. Enough is enough. Fuck their religion and fuck respecting their religion. Nuke them until they glow and then shoot them in the dark. Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Posted by: Jack's Smirking Revenge at January 10, 2006 05:07 PM (CtVG6)
2
As I have said, these people deserve neither compassion, sympathy, OR respect. They have no problem with killing any of us, our women, or even children. Nothing is off limits to them.
NO apologies, NO symapthy.
They hate us and our way of life, it's that simple. They hate that we have a system that, while not perfect, enables to live far better than their rat-like existences. They hate that our ideals enables us to have choices in life while they remain dominated and ruled by a backward set of beliefs under threats of losing their heads.
THEY CAN'T STAND IT
These people cannot be fixed or reasoned with in any sense.
They will never have peace, they would not know how, nor are they willing to learn! War and death are all they know or understand.
I am all for getting this problem under control in any manner necessary so that the rest of us can live peaceably.
NO apologies, NO symapthy.
They hate us and our way of life, it's that simple. They hate that we have a system that, while not perfect, enables to live far better than their rat-like existences. They hate that our ideals enables us to have choices in life while they remain dominated and ruled by a backward set of beliefs under threats of losing their heads.
THEY CAN'T STAND IT
These people cannot be fixed or reasoned with in any sense.
They will never have peace, they would not know how, nor are they willing to learn! War and death are all they know or understand.
I am all for getting this problem under control in any manner necessary so that the rest of us can live peaceably.
Posted by: Dee at January 12, 2006 01:24 PM (HUims)
January 09, 2006
American Reporter Jill Carroll Held Hostage by al Qaeda in Iraq
UPDATE Jan 17th: Jill Carroll hostage video emerges. For more background on Jill Carroll visit the Jill Carroll archives.
UPDATE Jan 17th: Jill Carroll hostage video emerges. For more background on Jill Carroll visit the Jill Carroll archives.As posted on The Jawa Report on January 7th, an American reporter named Jill Carroll has been kidnapped by Abu Musab al Zarqawi's al Qaeda in Iraq. The Jawa Report was the first American media to report the hostage's name. Today, the Christian Science Monitor confirmed that Jill Carroll had been kidnapped.
After Tim's first post on Jill Carroll, we had an e-mail conversation about whether it was appropriate to name hostages before the U.S. State Department or other official sources released her name. The long standing policy of The Jawa Report has been that the more publicity given to hostages while they are still alive, the greater the chances of their survival. The U.S. State Department's policy of not-naming hostages publicly is borderline insanity and serves no rational purpose.
Let us keep Ms. Carroll in our prayers. Christian Science Monitor:
Jill Carroll, a freelance journalist currently on assignment for The Christian Science Monitor, was abducted by unknown gunmen in Baghdad Saturday morning. Her Iraqi interpreter was killed during the kidnapping.The Christian Science Monitor article states that no group has claimed responsibility for Jill Carroll's kidnapping, but other sources claim that al Qaeda was behind it. Times Online:"I saw a group of people coming as if they had come from the sky," recalled Ms. Carroll's driver, who survived the attack. "One guy attracted my attention. He jumped in front of me screaming, 'Stop! Stop! Stop!' with his left hand up and a pistol in his right hand."
One of the kidnappers pulled the driver from the car, jumped in, and drove away with several others huddled around Carroll and her interpreter, said the driver, who asked not to be identified. "They didn't give me any time to even put the car in neutral," he recounted.
The body of the interpreter, Allan Enwiyah, 32, was later found in the same neighborhood. He had been shot twice in the head, law enforcement officials said. There has been no word yet on Carroll's whereabouts.
The kidnapping occurred within 300 yards of the office of Adnan al-Dulaimi, a prominent Sunni politician, whom Carroll had been intending to interview at 10 a.m. Saturday local time, the driver said.
Mr. Dulaimi, however, turned out not to be at his office, and after 25 minutes, Carroll and her interpreter left. Their car was stopped as she drove away. "It was very obvious this was by design," said the driver. "The whole operation took no more than a quarter of a minute. It was very highly organized. It was a setup, a perfect ambush."
Attempts were being made last night to locate an American journalist who was kidnapped in Baghdad yesterday after a meeting with a senior Sunni politician. Her Iraqi translator was killed, writes Ali Rifat.The Left's 'Freedom Fighter's' at work........Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility for the kidnapping in a statement posted on the internet.
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Cue the tearful hostage Video.
Those AQ "Lions of Allah" are some real tough guys when they point weapons at women and make them beg.
I know that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi claimed he would not kill a women. He also claimed he would have released Margaret Hassan if he had her, but she was murdered and found inside Fallujah which at the time was his stronghold.
I still have my doubts if his "Lions" weren't the ones behind it.
I hope for her safe return.
Those AQ "Lions of Allah" are some real tough guys when they point weapons at women and make them beg.
I know that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi claimed he would not kill a women. He also claimed he would have released Margaret Hassan if he had her, but she was murdered and found inside Fallujah which at the time was his stronghold.
I still have my doubts if his "Lions" weren't the ones behind it.
I hope for her safe return.
Posted by: dave at January 09, 2006 05:39 PM (CcXvt)
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We'll definitely be seeing a video of her soon. Since A l Qaeda's the group behind it. It doesn't look good since she's an American. I hope people don't forget about her like they did about Jeffrey Ake and Tom Fox.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 09, 2006 05:59 PM (5E0ex)
3
I am adopting a wait and see attitude on all hostages from now on if they are not military or associated. It is a dangerous environment and it is getting like you need a scorecard to know whos who walking around it.
Posted by: hondo at January 09, 2006 10:40 PM (3aakz)
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I'm just a teensy bit suspicious that all these kidnappings are not much more than publicity stunts. Wait for the book, and mark my words.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 10, 2006 12:10 PM (0yYS2)
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Well she's an American so she's not in on it. The kidnappers may let her go since she's a woman but who knows. You thought the peacekeepers faked it but guess what? They are still missing and probably dead.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 10, 2006 01:18 PM (5E0ex)
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Who cares about this journalist! i bet she is a liberal commie traitor who should be shot on sight! I bet she is pro-abortion too! We should be happy that al-quaeda took this book reading liberal out of america!
hahahahahahhahahaha
ahhahahahahahahahah
....this is how ridiculous you guys sound.
ernie
hahahahahahhahahaha
ahhahahahahahahahah
....this is how ridiculous you guys sound.
ernie
Posted by: ernie at January 10, 2006 02:17 PM (X4Dyg)
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Ernie is an uninformed IDIOT. The kidnapped woman works for one of the most respected, conservative newspapers in the world -- and you can bet that she's also opposed to abortion.
It's very sad that such a quality minded ournalist
has been kidnapped - or any human being for that
matter. It's stupid idiots like Ernie who deserve to be kidnapped and tortured.
Take the time to learn the truth before exposing your ignorance, you fool.
It's very sad that such a quality minded ournalist
has been kidnapped - or any human being for that
matter. It's stupid idiots like Ernie who deserve to be kidnapped and tortured.
Take the time to learn the truth before exposing your ignorance, you fool.
Posted by: Frank at January 10, 2006 04:15 PM (C/QX2)
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What's wrong with being pro abortion? I don't support abortion but this is America and women have the right to choose. If they want an abortion,let them. Also just because a person's liberal doesn't mean they deserve to be kidnapped and beheaded. So to answer your question, who cares about the journalist? I do because she's a human being. Unlike you.
ASS!!!
ASS!!!
Posted by: George Ramos at January 10, 2006 04:18 PM (5E0ex)
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You don't support abortion but you support a woman's right to choose what? Abortion. That means you support abortion. j/s.
Posted by: jesusland joe at January 10, 2006 06:09 PM (rUyw4)
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Hey george, nobody cares what you say, because you're such a moron that you couldn't say anything of consequence even by accident. Fuck off with your little friend ernie ya dipshit.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at January 10, 2006 06:57 PM (0yYS2)
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Go fuck yourself you far right mother fucker. No I don't support abortion but if woman want to do it. Let them. I can't stop them. Think. And go fuck yourself Maximus. OHHH I'm so scared. Mommy he hurt my feelings.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 11, 2006 06:51 AM (5E0ex)
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Let me explain better. I'm 18 years old so I'm not married. If I had a wife and she became pregnant, I would not want her to have an abortion. I couldn't live with myself knowing that I killed my child. However if other women want to have an abortion then I won't stop them. This is America and they have the right to do what they want. I don't know them personally so it's none of my business what they do. I'm a moderate so I support some of what Democrats and Republicans do but I also think they both screw up on some of what they do. Now do you understand Jesusland Joe? By the way, what in the name of Jesus(Pardon the pun) is J/S???
Posted by: George Ramos at January 11, 2006 08:04 AM (5E0ex)
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Hey you guys? I think we're forgetting about the important thing in this situation here...a young woman was kidnapped and is posibly being tortured. What does it matter what she stands for? She was kidnapped doing a job that's intention is to keep us informed about the current state of the world. Her professors at UMass Amherst are now my professors and all of them can only speak about how wonderful she is as a person. Please don't turn this into an argument about religious questions - just wish and hope and pray or do whatever you do to ask forher safe return, do your arguing somewhere else. Thanks.
Posted by: Amanda at January 11, 2006 10:15 AM (2HjB3)
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There is no end to the lunacy of these people, nor are there any boundaries as to what is off limits for them ... NO act is taboo to them if they think it furthers their craziness. I feel for this young woman and pray for her return alive and well, however, the chances of this are not good. Killing a woman has more shock value than killing a man and they know this.
Their goal is to shock and anger us as much as possible, and to try to make us feel powerless at their hand. No one can reason with fanatics.They do not want nor are they incapable of comprehending reason.
I say STOP trying to understand them. We should not try, nor should we apologize for our actions in attempting to rescue any of our people from them. If any one of them is offended, TOO BAD. I believe the only people we should pull out of there are our civilians and then deal with these people in any manner that is necessary to get them under control before we find ourselves having to do it on our own soil.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!
Their goal is to shock and anger us as much as possible, and to try to make us feel powerless at their hand. No one can reason with fanatics.They do not want nor are they incapable of comprehending reason.
I say STOP trying to understand them. We should not try, nor should we apologize for our actions in attempting to rescue any of our people from them. If any one of them is offended, TOO BAD. I believe the only people we should pull out of there are our civilians and then deal with these people in any manner that is necessary to get them under control before we find ourselves having to do it on our own soil.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!
Posted by: Dee at January 11, 2006 11:25 AM (HUims)
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Agreed, I'm praying for this woman.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 11, 2006 12:36 PM (5E0ex)
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While Jill Carroll remains in the hands of
the terrorists, we must not cease to pray
for her and to take what actions we can.
Jill is an intelligent and resourceful
young woman. Let us pray that God gives
her the words to say to her captors which
result in her quick release.
the terrorists, we must not cease to pray
for her and to take what actions we can.
Jill is an intelligent and resourceful
young woman. Let us pray that God gives
her the words to say to her captors which
result in her quick release.
Posted by: Kathy at January 11, 2006 07:10 PM (8FV9w)
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I knew Jill when I worked at the Collegian at UMass. She is sharp, fair and compassionate. Let's hope they realize just what a valuable member of our humanity she is; it is obvious. I pray for you, Jill and for your family and hope for your safe return.
Posted by: LAB at January 11, 2006 08:51 PM (96VI6)
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I knew Jill at the Collegian at UMass as well. She's a real person who has been part of people's lives. At the Collegian she was hard-working, dedicated, and extremely bright. I can see from her articles and reporting work that she hasn't changed. I am keeping her in my prayers, regardless of what her views are on abortion.
Posted by: Dan B at January 11, 2006 09:40 PM (IpxFL)
19
What do her personal views have to do with anything? Isn't this why we are over there in the first place? Anyone who makes this an issue is as sick as the terrorists.
It is their agenda to kill anyone who isn't as twisted as they are, and who doesn't subscribe to their fanatical points of view.
Don't sink to their level.
It is their agenda to kill anyone who isn't as twisted as they are, and who doesn't subscribe to their fanatical points of view.
Don't sink to their level.
Posted by: Dee at January 11, 2006 10:01 PM (HUims)
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Keeping things in perspective, there is a human out there who is in danger. A woman that could be your wife, your sister, your best friend, your co-worker...even you, imagine. Sending prayers to Jill that she is comforted & protected, alive & well. Asking for God's blessings to resolve this matter & bring her & other hostages back to their family & friends, who are missing & loving them.
Show us that there is good in this world. Pls leave politics & judgements aside when it comes to human suffering.
Thank you.
Grace
Show us that there is good in this world. Pls leave politics & judgements aside when it comes to human suffering.
Thank you.
Grace
Posted by: State of Grace at January 17, 2006 03:07 PM (LdSEa)
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I am so sorry to hear that Jill's captors have now threatened to kill her, and are making impossible demands on the US as ransoms.
Have we had had enough?
Mr Bush, You now what must be done. These people need to understand that we no longer will stand for their fanatical behaviour.
Have we had had enough?
Mr Bush, You now what must be done. These people need to understand that we no longer will stand for their fanatical behaviour.
Posted by: Dee at January 17, 2006 06:02 PM (HUims)
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I feel really bad for that young lady. I feel bad for all the innocents that get hurt on any side at war. War is a very ugly beast and should be avoided. This is a war of power, greed, and lies. One religious nut trying to take over another. They both want the very same thing. Take over the world and make everyone live under their God. That is a war zone. What was she doing there, cause it was the cool thing to do. War is not a game. It's not like tree hugging, or save the whales. I pray she stays safe.
Posted by: hockpooh at January 17, 2006 06:31 PM (c29rn)
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I believe Ms Carroll was honestly trying to help this situation, and that she did know the risks. I do not believe this in any way justifies her kidnapping and possible death.
Anyone remember Daniel Pearl? Were we not paying attention? What about all the other Americans that have died after him? People that were there trying to help these people.
They do not want help. They cannot fathom living any other way than they have for the past thousands of years. There is no reason or intelligence here.
HELLO !!!!!
Anyone remember Daniel Pearl? Were we not paying attention? What about all the other Americans that have died after him? People that were there trying to help these people.
They do not want help. They cannot fathom living any other way than they have for the past thousands of years. There is no reason or intelligence here.
HELLO !!!!!
Posted by: Dee at January 17, 2006 09:43 PM (HUims)
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Are you people insane? The Christian Science Monitor is NOT a conservative newspaper nor does it have anything to do with religion. They are a left wing rag in Boston. Jill Caroll has been writing hit pieces on the US Government for a few years now, she is a terrorist sympathizer. The irony of this story is- Now she will be depending on the marines (the people she hates so much) to come rescue her from her ordeal.
Posted by: GiGi at January 17, 2006 11:15 PM (GlnbV)
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These people are evil. And anybody, whether American or other, that criticizes the war on terror and sympathizes with these animals, have this girl's blood on there hands if she is killed. Why? Because the anti-war, careless statements give the enemy hope and prolong this insanity.
May all the radical Muslims burn forever in hell! And, may you sympathizers burn with them!
May all the radical Muslims burn forever in hell! And, may you sympathizers burn with them!
Posted by: de at January 18, 2006 03:00 AM (d6PGq)
26
These terrorist know that the U.S. will never give in to their demands.Thats the whole point.They are just eager to kill as many Americans & Jews & any of our allies as they can.
Although the dumbasses fail to realize that by killing all these innocent people is just gonna make things worse for them.I hope they wise up &
release this young woman,because killing her
isn't gonna change 1 damn thing.They know it wont.They just wanna kill as many as they can.
I think we should just take over Iraq completely,
because as soon as we leave there & it does'nt matter if it's 10 years from now.It's still gonna be the same & even worse once we leave.You can not teach the unteachable.If these dumbasses
want us out of there.Then they need to stop beheading people.If any of them had a brain.Then the smart thing to do would be to release this young lady. Oh & by the way Ernie...I hope you burn in hell you worthless piece of shit!!!
Although the dumbasses fail to realize that by killing all these innocent people is just gonna make things worse for them.I hope they wise up &
release this young woman,because killing her
isn't gonna change 1 damn thing.They know it wont.They just wanna kill as many as they can.
I think we should just take over Iraq completely,
because as soon as we leave there & it does'nt matter if it's 10 years from now.It's still gonna be the same & even worse once we leave.You can not teach the unteachable.If these dumbasses
want us out of there.Then they need to stop beheading people.If any of them had a brain.Then the smart thing to do would be to release this young lady. Oh & by the way Ernie...I hope you burn in hell you worthless piece of shit!!!
Posted by: Clyde at January 18, 2006 04:54 AM (2Xc2N)
27
Clyde ... FINALLY, a fellow voice of reson!
These people are making unreasonable demands for Ms Carroll's release simply in an attempt to justify their behaviour to their people, and to send their own people a message, as wel as the US.
They want us to be afraid of them, period. They want everyone to fear them and to feel powerless against them.
Trouble is, they are such cowards that they can't fight us like men. They scurry around refusing to wear any uniform or be recognized, always hiding their faces, do sneak attacks and then running away, torture and kill women and helpless children. They are cowards, having no honor whatsoever. They deserve nothing from us.
I believe we should pull ALL of our civilian police, contractors, and humanitarian workers out of there and take care of business. If bombing them into submission is what works, then that is what we need to do. No mercy, no sympathy.
Get them under control so we can move forward and deal with other things that need attended to ...
These people are making unreasonable demands for Ms Carroll's release simply in an attempt to justify their behaviour to their people, and to send their own people a message, as wel as the US.
They want us to be afraid of them, period. They want everyone to fear them and to feel powerless against them.
Trouble is, they are such cowards that they can't fight us like men. They scurry around refusing to wear any uniform or be recognized, always hiding their faces, do sneak attacks and then running away, torture and kill women and helpless children. They are cowards, having no honor whatsoever. They deserve nothing from us.
I believe we should pull ALL of our civilian police, contractors, and humanitarian workers out of there and take care of business. If bombing them into submission is what works, then that is what we need to do. No mercy, no sympathy.
Get them under control so we can move forward and deal with other things that need attended to ...
Posted by: Dee at January 18, 2006 11:59 AM (HUims)
28
Why hasn't the media had a lip reader tell us what Jill is saying in the video? It seems pretty obvious that this could be done.
Posted by: Natasha at January 18, 2006 12:50 PM (i6py+)
29
I am certain the Government has done this. It is possible they are not releasing that for various reason I can think of.
Posted by: Dee at January 18, 2006 01:20 PM (HUims)
30
Look at those who have been kidnapped and held hostage in Iraq so far. Notice what most of them have in common.
Recently an entire group of American peace activists, who are against the war and seeking an end to the US occupation were taken hostage, and now Jill, who is also very sympathetic to the Iraqi people, is now being held.
Remember also how the man who was beheaded, was shown to be wearing an orange jumpsuit, exactly the same as those worn by US held prisoners, he was sitting in a chair exactly the same as those used in Abu Griab Prison, and even the walls looked the same as in Abu Griab Prison.
Why can't people do the math on this and come to the obvious conclusion?
Well many do, as do many others around the world also, but Bush loyalists are in complete denial of the obvious. They would prefer to believe that Iraqis are intentionally harming their own cause by targeting those who are sympathetic to them, and that US military, who have been caught red handed several times torturing prisoners, are somehow above doing these things to keep the public supportive of their occupation.
I am a loyal American. It is because I love my country that I am outrage by such things, and I must stand up for what is right, by standing in opposition to the Bush administration.
Recently an entire group of American peace activists, who are against the war and seeking an end to the US occupation were taken hostage, and now Jill, who is also very sympathetic to the Iraqi people, is now being held.
Remember also how the man who was beheaded, was shown to be wearing an orange jumpsuit, exactly the same as those worn by US held prisoners, he was sitting in a chair exactly the same as those used in Abu Griab Prison, and even the walls looked the same as in Abu Griab Prison.
Why can't people do the math on this and come to the obvious conclusion?
Well many do, as do many others around the world also, but Bush loyalists are in complete denial of the obvious. They would prefer to believe that Iraqis are intentionally harming their own cause by targeting those who are sympathetic to them, and that US military, who have been caught red handed several times torturing prisoners, are somehow above doing these things to keep the public supportive of their occupation.
I am a loyal American. It is because I love my country that I am outrage by such things, and I must stand up for what is right, by standing in opposition to the Bush administration.
Posted by: Natasha at January 18, 2006 02:22 PM (i6py+)
31
Listen, with all due respect, I am nobody obviously, I don't know this woman personally or something, but being human, she should not die especially at this young age, and its not wrong for her friends (directly or indirectly) to vent out their love or frustrations here. For the ones who have been giving ridiculously negative comments regarding Jill her, you don't know anything what they are undergoing! All you can go is bla bla bla, lets take Iraq over, bla bla bla, they want us to negotiate, bla bla bla, Bush government aint doin anything, bla bla .. whatever!
Amanda, LAB, Dan ... ignore these ignorant fools and keep those sprits high, she will come home. There's still hope ..
Amanda, LAB, Dan ... ignore these ignorant fools and keep those sprits high, she will come home. There's still hope ..
Posted by: Thiru at January 18, 2006 11:23 PM (Fqg/6)
32
The NEOCONS have committed the same grave error of conscience and character made by the people of Germany under Adolf Hitler. Hitler rose to absolute power on the national panic caused by the Reichstag Fire, and Bush has taken the same advantage of 911.
This world has always been a dangerous place, and freedom has always been very costly. The wise know that freedom is priceless, and they know also that the safety Bush promises in exchange for it, is a mere fools ransom. Why do you think they call America the land of the free 'and' the home of the brave?
If you are not brave enough to live here in freedom, then by all means live in a safe and orderly police state, but do so somewhere else.
I hear the PRC is very safe and orderly. There are no drugs, no muggings, no terrorism, and the streets are clean too. If that is what matters to you most of all, then by all means, please get your stupid ass on plane and go!
This world has always been a dangerous place, and freedom has always been very costly. The wise know that freedom is priceless, and they know also that the safety Bush promises in exchange for it, is a mere fools ransom. Why do you think they call America the land of the free 'and' the home of the brave?
If you are not brave enough to live here in freedom, then by all means live in a safe and orderly police state, but do so somewhere else.
I hear the PRC is very safe and orderly. There are no drugs, no muggings, no terrorism, and the streets are clean too. If that is what matters to you most of all, then by all means, please get your stupid ass on plane and go!
Posted by: Natasha at January 19, 2006 01:28 AM (i6py+)
33
I hope with all my heart that Jill is released and comes home safe, but I have a feelings she is a very aware and smart woman, and by now she knows who really kidnapped her. I can just see it her eyes, and I just know somehow she desperately wishes she could tell us.
Posted by: Natasha at January 19, 2006 01:37 AM (i6py+)
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What do you think is happening to her while she is waiting for the execution?
Posted by: Clueless at January 19, 2006 02:31 AM (VQynJ)
35
What do you think is happening to her while she is waiting for the execution?
Posted by: Clueless at January 19, 2006 02:35 AM (VQynJ)
36
thes terrorist sons of bitches are cowards. ,aking their people do their dirty work while they sit in lavish palaces with their women. whats more they use their people and islam for their own greed manaical ends. peole of islam wake up! you must break free from those that put you in bondage.
Posted by: derrick at January 19, 2006 06:17 PM (jMAEl)
37
Thursday, January 19, 2006
From democracy to Captive
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) — As a deadline neared for hostage American journalist Jill Carroll, Muslim leaders and her pleading mother appealed Thursday to kidnappers to spare her life and set her free.
Referring to demands from Carroll's abductors that Iraqi women be released from U.S. custody, a senior Iraqi official said six jailed Iraqi women were due to be freed by the U.S. military.
Not just another beautiful face,but another beautiful AMERICAN face.
So we have been wondering fro a long time now......what does our government in charge stand for? or are the suspisions correct and and they dont stand but are controlled by the anceant middle east?
Are we going to ler our girl....that's right ( Our Girl) whose only plan as a journalist was to bring demography to seed in the middel east with comasssionate reports and storys of burnt out life in Iraq?
Do you want to wake up every morning to this----->
Well have a nice day at school now son,and study the rebelion hard so you can show the world that even though we are a 3rd rate country we can offer a better show then the blai witch .So go on now Son,go suck some 1st rate blood and get a real good taste for it now.
was that totally out there....out of controll,maybe even stupid?
Well not any more stupid as the complete waste of man power,service men and woman lifes, millions on millions if not billions of dollars spent to show a ungrateful people the meaning of democracy.
Yes they are learning all right, learning that the bush administration is a first rate fear factor machine,and doesn't have the balls to go in there...take the chance,and get the girl or not but put an end to this terrorists activitys once and for all.
Will some one in the Bush administration please wake up!,and lets get moving into a peaceful future,and if that means taking out a natation full of terrorists.........do it all ready.
I believ in second chances...third ,fourth,even fifth chances if that is what it takes.
But if after all that time and effort the only response we can get back is ( off with her head!)
Man....I mean put the playboy mag down and get out of the john Mr. P/
Do Something! Help me Mr. President! BOO HOO HOO HOO..snif! some body call 911 please. Have you seen this girl?Call Us.... we can help.Do you know where our childeren are?BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) — As a deadline neared for hostage American journalist Jill Carroll, Muslim leaders and her pleading mother appealed Thursday to kidnappers to spare her life and set her free.
Referring to demands from Carroll's abductors that Iraqi women be released from U.S. custody, a senior Iraqi official said six jailed Iraqi women were due to be freed by the U.S. military.Read some other blogs.
From democracy to Captive
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) — As a deadline neared for hostage American journalist Jill Carroll, Muslim leaders and her pleading mother appealed Thursday to kidnappers to spare her life and set her free.
Referring to demands from Carroll's abductors that Iraqi women be released from U.S. custody, a senior Iraqi official said six jailed Iraqi women were due to be freed by the U.S. military.
Not just another beautiful face,but another beautiful AMERICAN face.
So we have been wondering fro a long time now......what does our government in charge stand for? or are the suspisions correct and and they dont stand but are controlled by the anceant middle east?
Are we going to ler our girl....that's right ( Our Girl) whose only plan as a journalist was to bring demography to seed in the middel east with comasssionate reports and storys of burnt out life in Iraq?
Do you want to wake up every morning to this----->
Well have a nice day at school now son,and study the rebelion hard so you can show the world that even though we are a 3rd rate country we can offer a better show then the blai witch .So go on now Son,go suck some 1st rate blood and get a real good taste for it now.
was that totally out there....out of controll,maybe even stupid?
Well not any more stupid as the complete waste of man power,service men and woman lifes, millions on millions if not billions of dollars spent to show a ungrateful people the meaning of democracy.
Yes they are learning all right, learning that the bush administration is a first rate fear factor machine,and doesn't have the balls to go in there...take the chance,and get the girl or not but put an end to this terrorists activitys once and for all.
Will some one in the Bush administration please wake up!,and lets get moving into a peaceful future,and if that means taking out a natation full of terrorists.........do it all ready.
I believ in second chances...third ,fourth,even fifth chances if that is what it takes.
But if after all that time and effort the only response we can get back is ( off with her head!)
Man....I mean put the playboy mag down and get out of the john Mr. P/
Do Something! Help me Mr. President! BOO HOO HOO HOO..snif! some body call 911 please. Have you seen this girl?Call Us.... we can help.Do you know where our childeren are?BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) — As a deadline neared for hostage American journalist Jill Carroll, Muslim leaders and her pleading mother appealed Thursday to kidnappers to spare her life and set her free.
Referring to demands from Carroll's abductors that Iraqi women be released from U.S. custody, a senior Iraqi official said six jailed Iraqi women were due to be freed by the U.S. military.Read some other blogs.
Posted by: Aaron at January 19, 2006 10:19 PM (YXP9P)
38
These beast abductors must be killed. . . the only thing they know is to raise funds by abducting people. Our society must not give importance for these kind of people. by recognizing them, they are also very happy since they thought they are important. They are evil and considered as social cancer.(Neneng C.Rellama-Philippines)
Posted by: neneng chan-rellama at January 19, 2006 10:42 PM (KeHgh)
39
Clueless, they are known to torture female Americans with electricity, using car batteries, and I heard some other rumors too...
It might not be all that good that she is pretty
I am praying for her
It might not be all that good that she is pretty
I am praying for her
Posted by: Sad Jim at January 19, 2006 11:06 PM (VQynJ)
40
The Iraqis want the US out of Iraq right? Yes they do, and supposedly they take hostages to make the US get out.
Why would the Iraqis take peace activists and sympathetic journalists as hostages? They are not stupid. They know that if they did such things it would only make the American people more supportive of the occupation.
Look at the timing of these kidnappings. They always happen when support for the occupation is failing.
It is not Al-Qaeda. It is Al-CIAda.
Use some common sense.
Why would the Iraqis take peace activists and sympathetic journalists as hostages? They are not stupid. They know that if they did such things it would only make the American people more supportive of the occupation.
Look at the timing of these kidnappings. They always happen when support for the occupation is failing.
It is not Al-Qaeda. It is Al-CIAda.
Use some common sense.
Posted by: Natasha at January 20, 2006 09:21 AM (i6py+)
41
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=3828678
ABC NEWS
Duke Professor Skeptical of bin Laden Tape By Amber Rupinta
(01/19/06 -- DURHAM) - A Duke professor says he is doubtful about Thursday's audiotape from Osama bin Laden.
Bruce Lawrence has just published ?Messages to the World: The Statements of Osama Bin Laden,? a book translating bin Laden?s writing. He is skeptical of Thursday?s message.
?It was like a voice from the grave,? Lawrence said.
He thinks bin Laden is dead and has doubts about the tape. Lawrence recently analyzed more than 20 complete speeches and interviews of the al Qaida leader for his book. He says the new message is missing several key elements.
?There?s nothing in this from the Koran. He?s, by his own standards, a faithful Muslim,? Lawrence said. ?He quotes scripture in defense of his actions. There?s no quotation from the Koran in the excerpts we got, no reference to specific events, no reference to past atrocities.?
While the CIA confirms the voice on the tape is bin Laden?s, Lawrence questions when it was recorded. He says the timing of its release could be to divert attention from last week?s U.S. air strike in Pakistan. The strike targeted bin Laden?s deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, and killed four leading al Qaeda figures along with civilians.
Lawrence believes faulty Pakistani intelligence led to the strike and the civilian deaths, and the tape was leaked by Pakistani authorities to divert attention from their mistake.
?It led to a failed military operation where America got blamed, but they people who are really to blame are the ones who provided the intelligence,? Lawrence said. ?I think this is an effort to say were not going look at this terrible incident that happened.?
Another element that Lawrence takes issue with in bin Laden?s latest message is it?s length - - only 10 minutes. Previously, the shortest was 18 minutes.
ABC NEWS
Duke Professor Skeptical of bin Laden Tape By Amber Rupinta
(01/19/06 -- DURHAM) - A Duke professor says he is doubtful about Thursday's audiotape from Osama bin Laden.
Bruce Lawrence has just published ?Messages to the World: The Statements of Osama Bin Laden,? a book translating bin Laden?s writing. He is skeptical of Thursday?s message.
?It was like a voice from the grave,? Lawrence said.
He thinks bin Laden is dead and has doubts about the tape. Lawrence recently analyzed more than 20 complete speeches and interviews of the al Qaida leader for his book. He says the new message is missing several key elements.
?There?s nothing in this from the Koran. He?s, by his own standards, a faithful Muslim,? Lawrence said. ?He quotes scripture in defense of his actions. There?s no quotation from the Koran in the excerpts we got, no reference to specific events, no reference to past atrocities.?
While the CIA confirms the voice on the tape is bin Laden?s, Lawrence questions when it was recorded. He says the timing of its release could be to divert attention from last week?s U.S. air strike in Pakistan. The strike targeted bin Laden?s deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, and killed four leading al Qaeda figures along with civilians.
Lawrence believes faulty Pakistani intelligence led to the strike and the civilian deaths, and the tape was leaked by Pakistani authorities to divert attention from their mistake.
?It led to a failed military operation where America got blamed, but they people who are really to blame are the ones who provided the intelligence,? Lawrence said. ?I think this is an effort to say were not going look at this terrible incident that happened.?
Another element that Lawrence takes issue with in bin Laden?s latest message is it?s length - - only 10 minutes. Previously, the shortest was 18 minutes.
Posted by: Natasha at January 20, 2006 01:25 PM (i6py+)
42
Catching on yet?
Christian peace activists and a journalist very sympathetic to the Iraqi people, Jill Carroll, are taken hostage.
Then a supposed audio tape of Osama bin Laden threatening terrorism in the US is released.
Now just whose agenda do these things serve?
It is brutally obvious. The Bush administration is working overtime, to get the American people to support the Iraq occupation, and the immanent invasion of Iran.
Wake up people!
It's not Al-Qaeda. It's Al-CIAda.
Christian peace activists and a journalist very sympathetic to the Iraqi people, Jill Carroll, are taken hostage.
Then a supposed audio tape of Osama bin Laden threatening terrorism in the US is released.
Now just whose agenda do these things serve?
It is brutally obvious. The Bush administration is working overtime, to get the American people to support the Iraq occupation, and the immanent invasion of Iran.
Wake up people!
It's not Al-Qaeda. It's Al-CIAda.
Posted by: Natasha at January 20, 2006 01:37 PM (i6py+)
43
I don't like everything he does or says, but his website has some great information, and you NEED to know what is really going on.
Use the link.
http://www.infowars.com/
Use the link.
http://www.infowars.com/
Posted by: Natasha at January 20, 2006 01:46 PM (i6py+)
Posted by: Clyde at January 20, 2006 05:16 PM (2Xc2N)
45
And Where The Hell Did My Last Comments I Posted Run Off To???I Think They Dont Like Us Dee...
Posted by: Clyde at January 20, 2006 05:18 PM (2Xc2N)
46
Natasha??? You would'nt by any chance be from Baltimore,Maryland would you?
Posted by: Clyde at January 20, 2006 08:53 PM (2Xc2N)
47
Why is it that people feel the need to post views about things they couldnt possibly understand and have no intention on doing a damn thing about?Hey, how about putting on a military uniform and bringing your self over here and helping rid the world of these fanatics that you have no understanding of!That woman needs prayer not people who would venture to guess what side of the political fence she rides on or whether shes pro abortion or not.makes me sick to know that i defend your right to freedom of speech.
Posted by: Mongoose at January 20, 2006 08:55 PM (5a52M)
48
Anyone who claims it makes them sick, to know they defend the right to freedom of speech of those whom they disagree with, are not the defenders of liberty they wish us to believe they are.
Out one side of his mouth pours hate, while out of the other side of his mouth oozes references to prayer. Who does that remind you of?
Out one side of his mouth pours hate, while out of the other side of his mouth oozes references to prayer. Who does that remind you of?
Posted by: Natasha at January 20, 2006 10:58 PM (i6py+)
49
Has anyone interpreted what she was saying?!
Posted by: Sandra at January 21, 2006 02:25 PM (Ffvoi)
50
as i look around iraq,Natasha......where are you?oh yeh, sitting in the states attempting to belittle others.i dont hate people like you and some of the others on this site.i just hope one day that the insurgents find and take people like you hostage instead of people like Jill Carroll.so sit in your little world taking your safety for granted and ill keep despising the fact that her life is in real danger and all you people can do is post bullshit on a web site about her.oh and by the way,rest easy knowing that we'll keep kicking in doors and dodging bullets trying to find her.god bless.....out here
Posted by: mongoose at January 21, 2006 02:54 PM (5a52M)
51
He says he doesn't hate people like me, but he hopes the insurgents take people like me hostage, instead of people like Jill Carroll.
He is obviously very confused.
He advises me to, "sit in my little world taking my safety for granted", while he kicks in the doors of terrified Iraqis, dragging them off to Abu Graib Prison for "interrogation".
Such despicable acts do not make me feel safe. I do not take my safety for granted anymore than the poor Iraqis do now.
One would have to be a complete fool to take their safety for granted since the "Patriot" Act, what with the new secret police, and the NSA spying on us and all.
Sadly now we must fear our own government.
The way things are now, taking ones safety for granted is not only stupid, it is absolutely impossible.
By the way. This "mongoose" guy is not in Iraq. They do not allow soldiers to log onto the INTERNET and go on forums discussing the occupation. They totally do NOT.
He is obviously very confused.
He advises me to, "sit in my little world taking my safety for granted", while he kicks in the doors of terrified Iraqis, dragging them off to Abu Graib Prison for "interrogation".
Such despicable acts do not make me feel safe. I do not take my safety for granted anymore than the poor Iraqis do now.
One would have to be a complete fool to take their safety for granted since the "Patriot" Act, what with the new secret police, and the NSA spying on us and all.
Sadly now we must fear our own government.
The way things are now, taking ones safety for granted is not only stupid, it is absolutely impossible.
By the way. This "mongoose" guy is not in Iraq. They do not allow soldiers to log onto the INTERNET and go on forums discussing the occupation. They totally do NOT.
Posted by: Natasha at January 21, 2006 05:45 PM (i6py+)
Posted by: Funny at January 22, 2006 11:22 PM (VQynJ)
53
Oh. Ouch.
Posted by: Natasha at January 23, 2006 01:39 AM (i6py+)
54
LOL...I Think One Of You Is Scared & The Other Is Glad Of It...
Posted by: Clyde at January 23, 2006 02:49 AM (3D94H)
55
Clearly you rarely ever do though, and once again your words make this evident.
Posted by: Natasha at January 23, 2006 11:22 PM (i6py+)
56
Oh Shut Up!!!
Posted by: Clyde at January 24, 2006 07:21 PM (3D94H)
57
When Seeing and Hearing Isn't Believing
Bill Arkin
By William M. Arkin
Monday, Feb. 1, 1999
"Gentlemen! We have called you together to inform you that we are going to overthrow the United States government." So begins a statement being delivered by Gen. Carl W. Steiner, former Commander-in-chief, U.S. Special Operations Command.
At least the voice sounds amazingly like him.
But it is not Steiner. It is the result of voice "morphing" technology developed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.
By taking just a 10-minute digital recording of Steiner's voice, scientist George Papcun is able, in near real time, to clone speech patterns and develop an accurate facsimile. Steiner was so impressed, he asked for a copy of the tape.
Steiner was hardly the first or last victim to be spoofed by Papcun's team members. To refine their method, they took various high quality recordings of generals and experimented with creating fake statements. One of the most memorable is Colin Powell stating "I am being treated well by my captors."
"They chose to have him say something he would never otherwise have said," chuckled one of Papcun's colleagues.
A Box of Chocolates is Like War
Most Americans were introduced to the tricks of the digital age in the movie Forrest Gump, when the character played by Tom Hanks appeared to shake hands with President Kennedy.
For Hollywood, it is special effects. For covert operators in the U.S. military and intelligence agencies, it is a weapon of the future.
"Once you can take any kind of information and reduce it into ones and zeros, you can do some pretty interesting things," says Daniel T. Kuehl, chairman of the Information Operations department of the National Defense University in Washington, the military's school for information warfare.
PSYOPS seeks to exploit human vulnerabilities in enemy governments, militaries and populations.
Digital morphing — voice, video, and photo — has come of age, available for use in psychological operations. PSYOPS, as the military calls it, seek to exploit human vulnerabilities in enemy governments, militaries and populations to pursue national and battlefield objectives.
To some, PSYOPS is a backwater military discipline of leaflet dropping and radio propaganda. To a growing group of information war technologists, it is the nexus of fantasy and reality. Being able to manufacture convincing audio or video, they say, might be the difference in a successful military operation or coup.
Allah on the Holodeck
Pentagon planners started to discuss digital morphing after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Covert operators kicked around the idea of creating a computer-faked videotape of Saddam Hussein crying or showing other such manly weaknesses, or in some sexually compromising situation. The nascent plan was for the tapes to be flooded into Iraq and the Arab world.
The tape war never proceeded, killed, participants say, by bureaucratic fights over jurisdiction, skepticism over the technology, and concerns raised by Arab coalition partners.
What if the U.S. projected a holographic image of Allah floating over Baghdad?
But the "strategic" PSYOPS scheming didn't die. What if the U.S. projected a holographic image of Allah floating over Baghdad urging the Iraqi people and Army to rise up against Saddam, a senior Air Force officer asked in 1990?
According to a military physicist given the task of looking into the hologram idea, the feasibility had been established of projecting large, three-dimensional objects that appeared to float in the air.
But doing so over the skies of Iraq? To project such a hologram over Baghdad on the order of several hundred feet, they calculated, would take a mirror more than a mile square in space, as well as huge projectors and power sources.
And besides, investigators came back, what does Allah look like?
The Gulf War hologram story might be dismissed were it not the case that [CENSORED] has learned that a super secret program was established in 1994 to pursue the very technology for PSYOPS application. The "Holographic Projector" is described in a classified Air Force document as a system to "project information power from space ... for special operations deception missions."
War is Like a Box of Chocolates
Voice-morphing? Fake video? Holographic projection? They sound more like Mission Impossible and Star Trek gimmicks than weapons. Yet for each, there are corresponding and growing research efforts as the technologies improve and offensive information warfare expands.
Whereas early voice morphing required cutting and pasting speech to put letters or words together to make a composite, Papcun's software developed at Los Alamos can far more accurately replicate the way one actually speaks. Eliminated are the robotic intonations.
The irony is that after Papcun finished his speech cloning research, there were no takers in the military. Luckily for him, Hollywood is interested: The promise of creating a virtual Clark Gable is mightier than the sword.
Video and photo manipulation has already raised profound questions of authenticity for the journalistic world. With audio joining the mix, it is not only journalists but also privacy advocates and the conspiracy-minded who will no doubt ponder the worrisome mischief that lurks in the not too distant future.
"We already know that seeing isn't necessarily believing," says Dan Kuehl, "now I guess hearing isn't either."
Bill Arkin
By William M. Arkin
Monday, Feb. 1, 1999
"Gentlemen! We have called you together to inform you that we are going to overthrow the United States government." So begins a statement being delivered by Gen. Carl W. Steiner, former Commander-in-chief, U.S. Special Operations Command.
At least the voice sounds amazingly like him.
But it is not Steiner. It is the result of voice "morphing" technology developed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.
By taking just a 10-minute digital recording of Steiner's voice, scientist George Papcun is able, in near real time, to clone speech patterns and develop an accurate facsimile. Steiner was so impressed, he asked for a copy of the tape.
Steiner was hardly the first or last victim to be spoofed by Papcun's team members. To refine their method, they took various high quality recordings of generals and experimented with creating fake statements. One of the most memorable is Colin Powell stating "I am being treated well by my captors."
"They chose to have him say something he would never otherwise have said," chuckled one of Papcun's colleagues.
A Box of Chocolates is Like War
Most Americans were introduced to the tricks of the digital age in the movie Forrest Gump, when the character played by Tom Hanks appeared to shake hands with President Kennedy.
For Hollywood, it is special effects. For covert operators in the U.S. military and intelligence agencies, it is a weapon of the future.
"Once you can take any kind of information and reduce it into ones and zeros, you can do some pretty interesting things," says Daniel T. Kuehl, chairman of the Information Operations department of the National Defense University in Washington, the military's school for information warfare.
PSYOPS seeks to exploit human vulnerabilities in enemy governments, militaries and populations.
Digital morphing — voice, video, and photo — has come of age, available for use in psychological operations. PSYOPS, as the military calls it, seek to exploit human vulnerabilities in enemy governments, militaries and populations to pursue national and battlefield objectives.
To some, PSYOPS is a backwater military discipline of leaflet dropping and radio propaganda. To a growing group of information war technologists, it is the nexus of fantasy and reality. Being able to manufacture convincing audio or video, they say, might be the difference in a successful military operation or coup.
Allah on the Holodeck
Pentagon planners started to discuss digital morphing after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Covert operators kicked around the idea of creating a computer-faked videotape of Saddam Hussein crying or showing other such manly weaknesses, or in some sexually compromising situation. The nascent plan was for the tapes to be flooded into Iraq and the Arab world.
The tape war never proceeded, killed, participants say, by bureaucratic fights over jurisdiction, skepticism over the technology, and concerns raised by Arab coalition partners.
What if the U.S. projected a holographic image of Allah floating over Baghdad?
But the "strategic" PSYOPS scheming didn't die. What if the U.S. projected a holographic image of Allah floating over Baghdad urging the Iraqi people and Army to rise up against Saddam, a senior Air Force officer asked in 1990?
According to a military physicist given the task of looking into the hologram idea, the feasibility had been established of projecting large, three-dimensional objects that appeared to float in the air.
But doing so over the skies of Iraq? To project such a hologram over Baghdad on the order of several hundred feet, they calculated, would take a mirror more than a mile square in space, as well as huge projectors and power sources.
And besides, investigators came back, what does Allah look like?
The Gulf War hologram story might be dismissed were it not the case that [CENSORED] has learned that a super secret program was established in 1994 to pursue the very technology for PSYOPS application. The "Holographic Projector" is described in a classified Air Force document as a system to "project information power from space ... for special operations deception missions."
War is Like a Box of Chocolates
Voice-morphing? Fake video? Holographic projection? They sound more like Mission Impossible and Star Trek gimmicks than weapons. Yet for each, there are corresponding and growing research efforts as the technologies improve and offensive information warfare expands.
Whereas early voice morphing required cutting and pasting speech to put letters or words together to make a composite, Papcun's software developed at Los Alamos can far more accurately replicate the way one actually speaks. Eliminated are the robotic intonations.
The irony is that after Papcun finished his speech cloning research, there were no takers in the military. Luckily for him, Hollywood is interested: The promise of creating a virtual Clark Gable is mightier than the sword.
Video and photo manipulation has already raised profound questions of authenticity for the journalistic world. With audio joining the mix, it is not only journalists but also privacy advocates and the conspiracy-minded who will no doubt ponder the worrisome mischief that lurks in the not too distant future.
"We already know that seeing isn't necessarily believing," says Dan Kuehl, "now I guess hearing isn't either."
Posted by: Natasha at January 24, 2006 11:55 PM (i6py+)
58
Oh Gee...That Was Something we sure did'nt know..
Thank you for the momentary Glimpse of Day-Ja-Voo
Thank you for the momentary Glimpse of Day-Ja-Voo
Posted by: Clyde at January 25, 2006 12:14 PM (3D94H)
59
Hey Natasha...Can I borrow $10 bucks???
Posted by: Clyde at January 25, 2006 12:16 PM (3D94H)
60
There are those who are not aware of that, and I posted that for their benefit.
There are other people in this world other than you. What is said or done by others, does not necessarily relate to what you want, or are already aware of.
There are other people in this world other than you. What is said or done by others, does not necessarily relate to what you want, or are already aware of.
Posted by: Natasha at January 25, 2006 02:01 PM (i6py+)
61
Homeland Security Detention Camps
http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2006/01/23/daily27.html?jst=b_ln_hl
KBR lands $385 million contract
KBR announced today that the Department of Homeland Security's U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement division has awarded KBR a $385 million five-year contract to support ICE facilities in the event of an emergency.
KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Houston-based Halliburton Co. (NYSE:HAL).
KBR also held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005.
The contract will be executed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District.
The contract provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the United States, or to support the rapid development of new programs.
The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities.
KBR may also provide migrant detention support to other U.S. government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster.
In the event of a natural disaster, KBR could be responsible for providing housing for ICE personnel performing law enforcement functions in support of relief efforts.
http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2006/01/23/daily27.html?jst=b_ln_hl
KBR lands $385 million contract
KBR announced today that the Department of Homeland Security's U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement division has awarded KBR a $385 million five-year contract to support ICE facilities in the event of an emergency.
KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Houston-based Halliburton Co. (NYSE:HAL).
KBR also held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005.
The contract will be executed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District.
The contract provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the United States, or to support the rapid development of new programs.
The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities.
KBR may also provide migrant detention support to other U.S. government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster.
In the event of a natural disaster, KBR could be responsible for providing housing for ICE personnel performing law enforcement functions in support of relief efforts.
Posted by: Natasha at January 25, 2006 03:16 PM (i6py+)
62
More On New US Containment Camps. Just in case of what?
Jan. 24, 2006, 11:05AM
(BW) KBR Awarded U.S. Department of Homeland Security Contingency Support Project for Emergency Support Services
By Business Editors
(c) 2006 Business Wire
ARLINGTON, Va.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 24, 2006--KBR announced today that the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) component has awarded KBR an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contingency contract to support ICE facilities in the event of an emergency. KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton (NYSE:HAL).
With a maximum total value of $385 million over a five-year term, consisting of a one-year based period and four one-year options, the competitively awarded contract will be executed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District. KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005.
"We are especially gratified to be awarded this contract because it builds on our extremely strong track record in the arena of emergency operations support," said Bruce Stanski, executive vice president, KBR Government and Infrastructure. "We look forward to continuing the good work we have been doing to support our customer whenever and wherever we are needed."
The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities.
The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other U.S. Government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster. In the event of a natural disaster, the contractor could be tasked with providing housing for ICE personnel performing law enforcement functions in support of relief efforts.
ICE is one of three agencies that make up the Border and Transportation Security (BTS) Directorate of the DHS. The mission of the BTS Directorate is to secure the nation's air, land and sea borders. ICE, the largest investigative arm of the DHS, is responsible for identifying and shutting down vulnerabilities in the nation's border, economic, transportation and infrastructure security.
KBR is a global engineering, construction, technology and services company. Whether designing an LNG facility, serving as a defense industry contractor, or providing small capital construction, KBR delivers world-class service and performance. KBR employs more than 60,000 people in 43 countries around the world.
Halliburton, founded in 1919, is one of the world's largest providers of products and services to the petroleum and energy industries. The company serves its customers with a broad range of products and services through its Energy Services Group and KBR. Visit the company's World Wide Web site at www.halliburton.com.
Jan. 24, 2006, 11:05AM
(BW) KBR Awarded U.S. Department of Homeland Security Contingency Support Project for Emergency Support Services
By Business Editors
(c) 2006 Business Wire
ARLINGTON, Va.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 24, 2006--KBR announced today that the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) component has awarded KBR an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contingency contract to support ICE facilities in the event of an emergency. KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton (NYSE:HAL).
With a maximum total value of $385 million over a five-year term, consisting of a one-year based period and four one-year options, the competitively awarded contract will be executed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District. KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005.
"We are especially gratified to be awarded this contract because it builds on our extremely strong track record in the arena of emergency operations support," said Bruce Stanski, executive vice president, KBR Government and Infrastructure. "We look forward to continuing the good work we have been doing to support our customer whenever and wherever we are needed."
The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities.
The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other U.S. Government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster. In the event of a natural disaster, the contractor could be tasked with providing housing for ICE personnel performing law enforcement functions in support of relief efforts.
ICE is one of three agencies that make up the Border and Transportation Security (BTS) Directorate of the DHS. The mission of the BTS Directorate is to secure the nation's air, land and sea borders. ICE, the largest investigative arm of the DHS, is responsible for identifying and shutting down vulnerabilities in the nation's border, economic, transportation and infrastructure security.
KBR is a global engineering, construction, technology and services company. Whether designing an LNG facility, serving as a defense industry contractor, or providing small capital construction, KBR delivers world-class service and performance. KBR employs more than 60,000 people in 43 countries around the world.
Halliburton, founded in 1919, is one of the world's largest providers of products and services to the petroleum and energy industries. The company serves its customers with a broad range of products and services through its Energy Services Group and KBR. Visit the company's World Wide Web site at www.halliburton.com.
Posted by: Natasha at January 25, 2006 03:21 PM (i6py+)
63
Our government keeps growing LARGER, and our rights to privacy and freedom of movement, continue to be reduced as the economy teeters on the brink of collapse.
Now the Bush administration has funded the building of massive internment camps right here at home.
I don't care if you are a conservative or a liberal. These things are cause for grave concern.
Clearly it is high time for all of us to drop the partisan bickering, and begin taking a very hard look at what is taking place in our own land for a change. Our entire way of life, the very freedom we have fought for in so many wars, is threatened not from outside by terrorists, but from within, by the very people who claim to protect us.
"Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin
Now the Bush administration has funded the building of massive internment camps right here at home.
I don't care if you are a conservative or a liberal. These things are cause for grave concern.
Clearly it is high time for all of us to drop the partisan bickering, and begin taking a very hard look at what is taking place in our own land for a change. Our entire way of life, the very freedom we have fought for in so many wars, is threatened not from outside by terrorists, but from within, by the very people who claim to protect us.
"Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin
Posted by: Natasha at January 26, 2006 03:31 AM (i6py+)
64
Oh Geez Natasha...You're pretty hostile for a barnyard animal...
Posted by: Clyde at January 26, 2006 11:36 AM (3D94H)
65
Well Natasha...I agree with you on some things...
You just need to work on pointing your finger at somebody else besides the Bush Administration for once...
You just need to work on pointing your finger at somebody else besides the Bush Administration for once...
Posted by: Clyde at January 26, 2006 11:40 AM (3D94H)
66
I'll be waiting to hear about that $10 bucks...
Posted by: Clyde at January 26, 2006 11:42 AM (3D94H)
67
Oh & by the way...The world does revolve around me...I'm just that damn great!!!
Posted by: Clyde at January 26, 2006 11:44 AM (3D94H)
68
Natasha...Maybe I can help make you feel better about yourself...So Repeat After Me............
"I LIKE ME"..."YOU LIKE ME"..."AND I'M GOING TO HELP YOU"..."LIKE YOU"..............."SMILE"...
"I LIKE ME"..."YOU LIKE ME"..."AND I'M GOING TO HELP YOU"..."LIKE YOU"..............."SMILE"...
Posted by: Clyde at January 26, 2006 11:47 AM (3D94H)
69
I sure hope Jill comes home safe. I have not heard any news about her, and so I imagine she is still alive. I think if they had killed her they would be using that for propaganda, and so I think that may be a good sign.
Maybe I am just believing what I want to believe, but I can't help it. I really really hope this has a good ending.
Maybe I am just believing what I want to believe, but I can't help it. I really really hope this has a good ending.
Posted by: Natasha at January 28, 2006 12:37 AM (i6py+)
70
its her own fault reporters should not be there on there own will
Posted by: billy at January 30, 2006 08:08 PM (Ffvoi)
71
fuckin retard
Posted by: billy at January 30, 2006 08:09 PM (Ffvoi)
72
Billy...You ot to not talk like dat...You just a boy...
Posted by: Clyde at January 31, 2006 12:39 PM (ALwK/)
73
Release of al-Qaida Detainee Still A Mystery
31 Jan 2006 - UPI
RABAT, Morocco: Mystery surrounds the release by U.S. authorities in August 2004 of a Moroccan, suspected of being once the bodyguard of Osama bin Laden.
Abdallah Tabarak, a former Moroccan transit worker, was captured in 2001 and taken to the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But then in August 2004, he was suddenly released and now Tabarak lives near Casablanca, almost a free man, reports The Washington Post.
His case comes to light as the Pentagon gets ready for the first of its military tribunals. It points to the mysteries of U.S. priorities in deciding who to keep and who to let go, said the Post.
When captured, Tabarak was suspected of being the bodyguard for the al-Qaida leader, who had worked on bin Laden's farm in Sudan and helped run a gemstone smuggling racket in Afghanistan. But neither the Pentagon nor official in Morocco would publicly offer any explanation why he was released.
Tabarak's attorney says his importance as an al-Qaida figure has been exaggerated.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060130-101121-8626r
[end UPI release]
Hmmmmm
Why was Abdallah Tabarak, Osama bin Laden's bodyguard, released by the US from Guantanamo, and yet most US prisoners have no known associations to al-Qaida? This is not the first time this has happened either.
Why would "al-Qaida" kidnap peace activists and journalists, who oppose the US occupation and are sympathetic to the Iraqi people, instead of Haliburton employees or something?
If "al-Qaida" is really that incredibly stupid, then why have US forces, not swiftly defeated them as promised?
Why does "al-Qaida" release video and audio tapes whenever support for the war begins to fall again?
Use a little common sense people.
It's not al-Qaida. It's al-CIAda.
We are on to you al-CIAda. Release Jill Carroll!
Release of al-Qaida Detainee Still A Mystery
31 Jan 2006 - UPI
RABAT, Morocco: Mystery surrounds the release by U.S. authorities in August 2004 of a Moroccan, suspected of being once the bodyguard of Osama bin Laden.
Abdallah Tabarak, a former Moroccan transit worker, was captured in 2001 and taken to the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But then in August 2004, he was suddenly released and now Tabarak lives near Casablanca, almost a free man, reports The Washington Post.
His case comes to light as the Pentagon gets ready for the first of its military tribunals. It points to the mysteries of U.S. priorities in deciding who to keep and who to let go, said the Post.
When captured, Tabarak was suspected of being the bodyguard for the al-Qaida leader, who had worked on bin Laden's farm in Sudan and helped run a gemstone smuggling racket in Afghanistan. But neither the Pentagon nor official in Morocco would publicly offer any explanation why he was released.
Tabarak's attorney says his importance as an al-Qaida figure has been exaggerated.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060130-101121-8626r
[end UPI release]
Hmmmmm
Why was Abdallah Tabarak, Osama bin Laden's bodyguard, released by the US from Guantanamo, and yet most US prisoners have no known associations to al-Qaida? This is not the first time this has happened either.
Why would "al-Qaida" kidnap peace activists and journalists, who oppose the US occupation and are sympathetic to the Iraqi people, instead of Haliburton employees or something?
If "al-Qaida" is really that incredibly stupid, then why have US forces, not swiftly defeated them as promised?
Why does "al-Qaida" release video and audio tapes whenever support for the war begins to fall again?
Use a little common sense people.
It's not al-Qaida. It's al-CIAda.
We are on to you al-CIAda. Release Jill Carroll!
Posted by: Natasha at January 31, 2006 01:14 PM (i6py+)
74
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020106Z.shtml
What Really Happened
By Cindy Sheehan
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Wednesday 01 February 2006
As most of you have probably heard, I was arrested before the State of the Union address last night.
I am speechless with fury at what happened and with grief over what we have lost in our country.
There have been lies from the police and distortions by the press (shocker). So this is what really happened:
This afternoon at the People's State of the Union Address in DC, where I was joined by Congresspersons Lynn Woolsey and John Conyers, Ann Wright, Malik Rahim and John Cavanagh, Lynn brought me a ticket to the State of the Union address. At that time, I was wearing the shirt that said: 2245 Dead. How many more?
After the PSOTU press conference, I was having second thoughts about going to the SOTU at the Capitol. I didn't feel comfortable going. I knew George Bush would say things that would hurt me and anger me, and I knew that I couldn't disrupt the address because Lynn had given me the ticket, and I didn't want to be disruptive out of respect for her. I, in fact, had given the ticket to John Bruhns, who is in Iraq Veterans Against the War. However, Lynn's office had already called the media, and everyone knew I was going to be there, so I sucked it up and went.
I got the ticket back from John, and I met one of Congresswoman Barbara Lee's staffers in the Longworth Congressional Office building and we went to the Capitol via the underground tunnel. I went through security once, then had to use the rest room and went through security again.
My ticket was in the 5th gallery, front row, fourth seat in. The person who in a few minutes was to arrest me, helped me to my seat.
I had just sat down and I was warm from climbing 3 flights of stairs back up from the bathroom so I unzipped my jacket. I turned to the right to take my left arm out, when the same officer saw my shirt and yelled, "Protester." He then ran over to me, hauled me out of my seat, and roughly (with my hands behind my back) shoved me up the stairs. I said something like "I'm going, do you have to be so rough?" By the way, his name is Mike Weight.
The officer ran with me to the elevators, yelling at everyone to move out of the way. When we got to the elevators, he cuffed me and took me outside to await a squad car. On the way out, someone behind me said, "That's Cindy Sheehan." At which point the officer who arrested me said, "Take these steps slowly." I said, "You didn't care about being careful when you were dragging me up the other steps." He said, "That's because you were protesting." Wow, I got hauled out of the People's House because I was "Protesting."
I was never told that I couldn't wear that shirt into the Congress. I was never asked to take it off or zip my jacket back up. If I had been asked to do any of those things ... I would have, and written about the suppression of my freedom of speech later. I was immediately and roughly (I have the bruises and muscle spasms to prove it) hauled off and arrested for "unlawful conduct."
After I had my personal items inventoried and my fingers printed, a nice Sgt. came in and looked at my shirt and said, "2245, huh? I just got back from there."
I told him that my son died there. That's when the enormity of my loss hit me. I have lost my son. I have lost my First Amendment rights. I have lost the country that I love. Where did America go? I started crying in pain.
What did Casey die for? What did the 2244 other brave young Americans die for? What are tens of thousands of them over there in harm's way for still? For this? I can't even wear a shirt that has the number of troops on it that George Bush and his arrogant and ignorant policies are responsible for killing.
I wore the shirt to make a statement. The press knew I was going to be there, and I thought every once in awhile they would show me, and I would have the shirt on. I did not wear it to be disruptive, or I would have unzipped my jacket during George's speech. If I had any idea what happens to people who wear shirts that make the neocons uncomfortable, that I would be arrested ... maybe I would have, but I didn't.
There have already been many wild stories out there.
I have some lawyers looking into filing a First Amendment lawsuit against the government for what happened tonight. I will file it. It is time to take our freedoms and our country back.
I don't want to live in a country that prohibits any person, whether or not he/she has paid the ultimate price for that country, from wearing, saying, writing, or telephoning any negative statements about the government. That's why I am going to take my freedoms and liberties back. That's why I am not going to let BushCo take anything else away from me ... or you.
I am so appreciative of the couple of hundred of protesters who came to the jail while I was locked up to show their support. We have so much potential for good. There is so much good in so many people.
Four hours and 2 jails after I was arrested, I was let out. Again, I am so upset and sore it is hard to think straight.
Keep up the struggle ... I promise you, I will too.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020106Z.shtml
What Really Happened
By Cindy Sheehan
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Wednesday 01 February 2006
As most of you have probably heard, I was arrested before the State of the Union address last night.
I am speechless with fury at what happened and with grief over what we have lost in our country.
There have been lies from the police and distortions by the press (shocker). So this is what really happened:
This afternoon at the People's State of the Union Address in DC, where I was joined by Congresspersons Lynn Woolsey and John Conyers, Ann Wright, Malik Rahim and John Cavanagh, Lynn brought me a ticket to the State of the Union address. At that time, I was wearing the shirt that said: 2245 Dead. How many more?
After the PSOTU press conference, I was having second thoughts about going to the SOTU at the Capitol. I didn't feel comfortable going. I knew George Bush would say things that would hurt me and anger me, and I knew that I couldn't disrupt the address because Lynn had given me the ticket, and I didn't want to be disruptive out of respect for her. I, in fact, had given the ticket to John Bruhns, who is in Iraq Veterans Against the War. However, Lynn's office had already called the media, and everyone knew I was going to be there, so I sucked it up and went.
I got the ticket back from John, and I met one of Congresswoman Barbara Lee's staffers in the Longworth Congressional Office building and we went to the Capitol via the underground tunnel. I went through security once, then had to use the rest room and went through security again.
My ticket was in the 5th gallery, front row, fourth seat in. The person who in a few minutes was to arrest me, helped me to my seat.
I had just sat down and I was warm from climbing 3 flights of stairs back up from the bathroom so I unzipped my jacket. I turned to the right to take my left arm out, when the same officer saw my shirt and yelled, "Protester." He then ran over to me, hauled me out of my seat, and roughly (with my hands behind my back) shoved me up the stairs. I said something like "I'm going, do you have to be so rough?" By the way, his name is Mike Weight.
The officer ran with me to the elevators, yelling at everyone to move out of the way. When we got to the elevators, he cuffed me and took me outside to await a squad car. On the way out, someone behind me said, "That's Cindy Sheehan." At which point the officer who arrested me said, "Take these steps slowly." I said, "You didn't care about being careful when you were dragging me up the other steps." He said, "That's because you were protesting." Wow, I got hauled out of the People's House because I was "Protesting."
I was never told that I couldn't wear that shirt into the Congress. I was never asked to take it off or zip my jacket back up. If I had been asked to do any of those things ... I would have, and written about the suppression of my freedom of speech later. I was immediately and roughly (I have the bruises and muscle spasms to prove it) hauled off and arrested for "unlawful conduct."
After I had my personal items inventoried and my fingers printed, a nice Sgt. came in and looked at my shirt and said, "2245, huh? I just got back from there."
I told him that my son died there. That's when the enormity of my loss hit me. I have lost my son. I have lost my First Amendment rights. I have lost the country that I love. Where did America go? I started crying in pain.
What did Casey die for? What did the 2244 other brave young Americans die for? What are tens of thousands of them over there in harm's way for still? For this? I can't even wear a shirt that has the number of troops on it that George Bush and his arrogant and ignorant policies are responsible for killing.
I wore the shirt to make a statement. The press knew I was going to be there, and I thought every once in awhile they would show me, and I would have the shirt on. I did not wear it to be disruptive, or I would have unzipped my jacket during George's speech. If I had any idea what happens to people who wear shirts that make the neocons uncomfortable, that I would be arrested ... maybe I would have, but I didn't.
There have already been many wild stories out there.
I have some lawyers looking into filing a First Amendment lawsuit against the government for what happened tonight. I will file it. It is time to take our freedoms and our country back.
I don't want to live in a country that prohibits any person, whether or not he/she has paid the ultimate price for that country, from wearing, saying, writing, or telephoning any negative statements about the government. That's why I am going to take my freedoms and liberties back. That's why I am not going to let BushCo take anything else away from me ... or you.
I am so appreciative of the couple of hundred of protesters who came to the jail while I was locked up to show their support. We have so much potential for good. There is so much good in so many people.
Four hours and 2 jails after I was arrested, I was let out. Again, I am so upset and sore it is hard to think straight.
Keep up the struggle ... I promise you, I will too.
Posted by: Natasha at February 02, 2006 04:51 AM (i6py+)
75
Well,If that was exactly how it happened.Then I think they were wrong for hauling her out of there.In any case,I think they should have waited until she started running her mouth like she usually does,before they arrested her.That would have been a powerful blow against her if she had of.You can't blame Bush for it either.I
know most of you democrats & Liberals like to jump at every oppertunity to blame Bush for some
bullshit like that.The next thing we will hear is
how Bush ordered her to be removed from the building.I sympathize with her over the loss of her son,but she has gone too far.She obviously
does'nt understand the reasons we are at war.She
is just so upset over her sons death she's gone
insane.So I understand she has lost,but she must still pay for her actions,& she deserves the way
she has been treated for her past actions.If I had of died when I was over there.I sure as hell
would'nt have wanted my mother acting like that.
I feel like that would disgrace my name.Everybody
has their own preferences though.That's just mine.Her son chose to be a soldier & soldiers have a duty to defend their country by going into
harms way.It's sad that we have to go to war,but
it's necessary.If we do not confront these problems now,then we endanger the future generations.(OUR CHILDREN THAT IS).Alot of people
don't think ahead of what will happen in the future if we do not take action.Thats why most of them come to retarded ass conclusions,because they don't acknowledge all the facts.Alot of people who are not political or never pay attention to what happens around the world usually,automatically make snap decisions & stupid remarks like it's wrong to be over there,
Bush is evil,we're just stealing oil,stupid shit
like that.Like my sisters for example.They know
nothing about the world,yet they think they do.
All they care about is what happens around them.
They dont know who we are fighting.They dont know
who attacked us on 9/11 except that they were terrorist.Hell,They would have to look it up just
to find out who "President Bush" is.They dont take the time to vote for anything,even when it myte benefit them.Nor do they vote for presidential elections.My point is they know not
1 damn thing.All they hear is the rumours flowing
through the air and they start running their
mouths saying they're against the war.When they
dont even who the hell we're fighting,or where
we're fighting.They dont read the papers or watch
the news or anything of that nature.They are not
aware of what is happening around their country.
Yet they like to bitch & complain when things dont go their way.It just pisses me off,because
I see alot of that.They're the type that follows the crowd.Not knowing that they're following the wrong crowd.They're all in their late 20's.They
should know better.Ofcourse,a couple of them are
blondes.(Go Figure).Thats the problem with people
here in America.Alot of them are afraid of failure & they panic.They're too scared to try &
be independent.So instead they follow the crowd.
The Democratic crowd,The Republican crowd & all the others without understanding the facts.It is
very important to vote whether you like any of the parties or not.You simply must vote for whom
you like the least.One way or another somebody is
gonna win,& in my opinion if you don't vote,then you should sit back,seal your lips,& keep your opinions
to yourself.I think we should be more stricter in
our schools today.Make sure that todays youth is
very well educated in these matters,because todays youth is losing interest in learning such
things.Part of the reason for that is because
we're not strict enough in school.Stricter by meaning kids should focus more on their work &
make sure that each level they're at,that they
have fully understood the subject.Then move on to the next.Where I went to school in the late
90's we hardly learned anything about the goverment.(And Yes It Was A Normal School).We were simply briefed on those subjects then moved on.I just know that I would want my kid to learn
as much as they can,& understand the facts of how
everything works.I dont want my kid to be the type who follows the crowd,& makes snap decisions
about things they know nothing about.I dont want
them to hear those rumours flowing through the air,& believe it without knowing the facts.Alot
of you myte think Im a little off track,& that
this is not the right place for me to be expressing my opinions.Why dont you tell that to
"Natasha".She's the one who makes me go all haywire here.This is not her first time to do that either.I feel it's relevant,because all these things we talk about,are connected just about.Anyways,Lets keep hope alive for "Jill Carroll".May she return home safe & sound.
know most of you democrats & Liberals like to jump at every oppertunity to blame Bush for some
bullshit like that.The next thing we will hear is
how Bush ordered her to be removed from the building.I sympathize with her over the loss of her son,but she has gone too far.She obviously
does'nt understand the reasons we are at war.She
is just so upset over her sons death she's gone
insane.So I understand she has lost,but she must still pay for her actions,& she deserves the way
she has been treated for her past actions.If I had of died when I was over there.I sure as hell
would'nt have wanted my mother acting like that.
I feel like that would disgrace my name.Everybody
has their own preferences though.That's just mine.Her son chose to be a soldier & soldiers have a duty to defend their country by going into
harms way.It's sad that we have to go to war,but
it's necessary.If we do not confront these problems now,then we endanger the future generations.(OUR CHILDREN THAT IS).Alot of people
don't think ahead of what will happen in the future if we do not take action.Thats why most of them come to retarded ass conclusions,because they don't acknowledge all the facts.Alot of people who are not political or never pay attention to what happens around the world usually,automatically make snap decisions & stupid remarks like it's wrong to be over there,
Bush is evil,we're just stealing oil,stupid shit
like that.Like my sisters for example.They know
nothing about the world,yet they think they do.
All they care about is what happens around them.
They dont know who we are fighting.They dont know
who attacked us on 9/11 except that they were terrorist.Hell,They would have to look it up just
to find out who "President Bush" is.They dont take the time to vote for anything,even when it myte benefit them.Nor do they vote for presidential elections.My point is they know not
1 damn thing.All they hear is the rumours flowing
through the air and they start running their
mouths saying they're against the war.When they
dont even who the hell we're fighting,or where
we're fighting.They dont read the papers or watch
the news or anything of that nature.They are not
aware of what is happening around their country.
Yet they like to bitch & complain when things dont go their way.It just pisses me off,because
I see alot of that.They're the type that follows the crowd.Not knowing that they're following the wrong crowd.They're all in their late 20's.They
should know better.Ofcourse,a couple of them are
blondes.(Go Figure).Thats the problem with people
here in America.Alot of them are afraid of failure & they panic.They're too scared to try &
be independent.So instead they follow the crowd.
The Democratic crowd,The Republican crowd & all the others without understanding the facts.It is
very important to vote whether you like any of the parties or not.You simply must vote for whom
you like the least.One way or another somebody is
gonna win,& in my opinion if you don't vote,then you should sit back,seal your lips,& keep your opinions
to yourself.I think we should be more stricter in
our schools today.Make sure that todays youth is
very well educated in these matters,because todays youth is losing interest in learning such
things.Part of the reason for that is because
we're not strict enough in school.Stricter by meaning kids should focus more on their work &
make sure that each level they're at,that they
have fully understood the subject.Then move on to the next.Where I went to school in the late
90's we hardly learned anything about the goverment.(And Yes It Was A Normal School).We were simply briefed on those subjects then moved on.I just know that I would want my kid to learn
as much as they can,& understand the facts of how
everything works.I dont want my kid to be the type who follows the crowd,& makes snap decisions
about things they know nothing about.I dont want
them to hear those rumours flowing through the air,& believe it without knowing the facts.Alot
of you myte think Im a little off track,& that
this is not the right place for me to be expressing my opinions.Why dont you tell that to
"Natasha".She's the one who makes me go all haywire here.This is not her first time to do that either.I feel it's relevant,because all these things we talk about,are connected just about.Anyways,Lets keep hope alive for "Jill Carroll".May she return home safe & sound.
Posted by: Clyde at February 02, 2006 03:18 PM (ALwK/)
76
Oh By The Way "Natasha",BITE ME!!!
Posted by: Clyde at February 02, 2006 03:27 PM (ALwK/)
77
Oh,1 more thing "Natasha".Quit copying articles
out of magazines,& posting them here.I'm the only
who ever responds to them,& they suck.You just drive me nutz!
out of magazines,& posting them here.I'm the only
who ever responds to them,& they suck.You just drive me nutz!
Posted by: Clyde at February 02, 2006 03:31 PM (ALwK/)
78
Why do you hate freedom?
Posted by: Natasha at February 02, 2006 05:37 PM (i6py+)
79
Release of al-Qaida Detainee Still A Mystery
31 Jan 2006 - UPI
RABAT, Morocco: Mystery surrounds the release by U.S. authorities in August 2004 of a Moroccan, suspected of being once the bodyguard of Osama bin Laden.
Abdallah Tabarak, a former Moroccan transit worker, was captured in 2001 and taken to the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But then in August 2004, he was suddenly released and now Tabarak lives near Casablanca, almost a free man, reports The Washington Post.
His case comes to light as the Pentagon gets ready for the first of its military tribunals. It points to the mysteries of U.S. priorities in deciding who to keep and who to let go, said the Post.
When captured, Tabarak was suspected of being the bodyguard for the al-Qaida leader, who had worked on bin Laden's farm in Sudan and helped run a gemstone smuggling racket in Afghanistan. But neither the Pentagon nor official in Morocco would publicly offer any explanation why he was released.
Tabarak's attorney says his importance as an al-Qaida figure has been exaggerated.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060130-101121-8626r
[end UPI release]
Hmmmmm
Why was Abdallah Tabarak, Osama bin Laden's bodyguard, released by the US from Guantanamo, and yet most US prisoners have no known associations to al-Qaida? This is not the first time this has happened either.
Why would "al-Qaida" kidnap peace activists and journalists, who oppose the US occupation and are sympathetic to the Iraqi people, instead of Haliburton employees or something?
If "al-Qaida" is really that incredibly stupid, then why have US forces, not swiftly defeated them as promised?
Why does "al-Qaida" release video and audio tapes whenever support for the war begins to fall again?
Use a little common sense people.
It's not al-Qaida. It's al-CIAda.
We are on to you al-CIAda.
Release Jill Carroll!
31 Jan 2006 - UPI
RABAT, Morocco: Mystery surrounds the release by U.S. authorities in August 2004 of a Moroccan, suspected of being once the bodyguard of Osama bin Laden.
Abdallah Tabarak, a former Moroccan transit worker, was captured in 2001 and taken to the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But then in August 2004, he was suddenly released and now Tabarak lives near Casablanca, almost a free man, reports The Washington Post.
His case comes to light as the Pentagon gets ready for the first of its military tribunals. It points to the mysteries of U.S. priorities in deciding who to keep and who to let go, said the Post.
When captured, Tabarak was suspected of being the bodyguard for the al-Qaida leader, who had worked on bin Laden's farm in Sudan and helped run a gemstone smuggling racket in Afghanistan. But neither the Pentagon nor official in Morocco would publicly offer any explanation why he was released.
Tabarak's attorney says his importance as an al-Qaida figure has been exaggerated.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060130-101121-8626r
[end UPI release]
Hmmmmm
Why was Abdallah Tabarak, Osama bin Laden's bodyguard, released by the US from Guantanamo, and yet most US prisoners have no known associations to al-Qaida? This is not the first time this has happened either.
Why would "al-Qaida" kidnap peace activists and journalists, who oppose the US occupation and are sympathetic to the Iraqi people, instead of Haliburton employees or something?
If "al-Qaida" is really that incredibly stupid, then why have US forces, not swiftly defeated them as promised?
Why does "al-Qaida" release video and audio tapes whenever support for the war begins to fall again?
Use a little common sense people.
It's not al-Qaida. It's al-CIAda.
We are on to you al-CIAda.
Release Jill Carroll!
Posted by: Natasha at February 02, 2006 05:41 PM (i6py+)
80
I dont hate freedom...You just annoy me...
Posted by: Clyde at February 02, 2006 06:29 PM (ALwK/)
Posted by: Natasha at February 02, 2006 11:04 PM (i6py+)
82
Oh Shut Up ya little brat!!!
Posted by: Clyde at February 02, 2006 11:39 PM (ALwK/)
Posted by: Natasha at February 03, 2006 12:57 AM (i6py+)
Posted by: Clyde at February 03, 2006 01:00 AM (ALwK/)
85
So called "Al-Qaeda", THE BASE in Arabic, was in fact the US code name for CIA funded and trained anti Soviet insurgents, operating in Afghanistan during the early 1980s.
QUESTIONS
Why was Abdallah Tabarak, Osama bin Laden's bodyguard, released by the US from Guantanamo Bay Prison, and yet the US admits that most "detainees", prisoners, have no known associations to "Al-Qaeda"?
Why would "Al-Qaeda" kidnap peace activists and journalists, who oppose the US occupation and are sympathetic to the Iraqi people, when they could abduct people who are a threat to them?
Why does "Al-Qaeda" release video and audio tapes whenever support for the war begins to fall again?
Use a little common sense people.
It's not Al-Qaeda. It's Al-CIAda.
We are on to you Al-CIAda.
Release Jill Carroll !
QUESTIONS
Why was Abdallah Tabarak, Osama bin Laden's bodyguard, released by the US from Guantanamo Bay Prison, and yet the US admits that most "detainees", prisoners, have no known associations to "Al-Qaeda"?
Why would "Al-Qaeda" kidnap peace activists and journalists, who oppose the US occupation and are sympathetic to the Iraqi people, when they could abduct people who are a threat to them?
Why does "Al-Qaeda" release video and audio tapes whenever support for the war begins to fall again?
Use a little common sense people.
It's not Al-Qaeda. It's Al-CIAda.
We are on to you Al-CIAda.
Release Jill Carroll !
Posted by: Natasha at February 04, 2006 01:36 PM (i6py+)
86
Was Jill Carroll abducted because she got to close to the truth about Al CIAda?
The following article appeared in the May 23, 2002 edition of The Christian Science Monitor.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0523/p11s02-coop.html
Debunk the myth of Al Qaeda
Its size and reach have been blown out of proportion
By Kimberly A. McCloud and Adam Dolnik
MONTEREY, CALIF. – News reports indicate that Al Qaeda, ousted from its camps in Afghanistan, is now on the loose, spreading terror around the world.
Several recent attacks have been claimed by or attributed to the terrorist network, including an assault on a Jewish synagogue in Tunisia, multiple explosions in Yemen last month (including one at the US Embassy compound), attacks in the Philippines, and a fire in the Milan metro.
But is Al Qaeda really behind all these attacks?
Analysts cite differences in modus operandi compared with alleged past attacks, as well as more probable perpetrators in those recent incidents. Still, Al Qaeda is likely to be the top suspect in future incidents. Victims, including states, may even blame Al Qaeda for political reasons, namely to gain US sympathy and support.
Would-be terrorists the world over may be inspired to perpetrate attacks, seeking to feel they are part of what they perceive as a large, powerful terrorist movement. The public perception that Al Qaeda is running wild is likely to increase fear, especially among Americans.
Such concern, when translated into a heightened vigilance about one's surroundings – particularly in light of this week's warnings about future attacks in the US – may not be a completely bad thing. But unchecked public fear, taken to an extreme, could immobilize citizens, jeopardize civil liberties, and lead America into too many fights abroad.
The United States and its allies in the war on terrorism must defuse the widespread image of Al Qaeda as a ubiquitous, super-organized terror network and call it as it is: a loose collection of groups and individuals that doesn't even refer to itself as "Al Qaeda." Most of the affiliated groups have distinct goals within their own countries or regions, and pose little direct threat to the United States. Washington must also be careful not to imply that any attack anywhere is by definition, or likely, the work of Al Qaeda.
This phenomenon of "exaggerated enemy" is not new.
In 1983, three spectacular suicide bombings in Beirut were claimed by the previously unknown "Islamic Jihad." Numerous subsequent attacks were attributed to the group. And while the intelligence community concluded that "Islamic Jihad" was a nom de guerre for the Lebanese Hizbullah, it was clear that many of the subsequent attacks were unrelated to the militant Shiia organization.
Still, the campaign succeeded in creating the image of an invincible force, and "Islamic Jihad" became a symbol to follow – much as Al Qaeda is today.
The US must be careful about its use of the term "Al Qaeda." Meaning "the base" in Arabic, it originally referred to an Afghan operational base for the mujahideen during the Soviet occupation in the '80s.
In the current context of Osama bin Laden's terror network, this name was imposed externally by Western officials and media sources. Mr. bin Laden has, in fact, never mentioned "Al Qaeda" publicly.
In the quest to define the enemy, the US and its allies have helped to blow it out of proportion. Posters and matchbooks featuring bin Laden's face and the reward for his capture in a dozen languages transformed this little-known "jihadist" into a household name and, in some places, a symbol of heroic defiance.
By committing itself to eradicating terrorism, the Bush administration has put itself in a difficult position, especially if "Al Qaeda" begins popping up all over the map. While the US government must be diligent in protecting its citizens, it cannot try to extinguish every terrorist flame that appears without further encouraging the phenomenon as well as exhausting its resources. America must choose its battles wisely.
Resisting immediate attribution of attacks to Al Qaeda is the first step in defusing the enemy. While the Bush administration has not necessarily been blaming all post-9/11 attacks on Al Qaeda, it has passively allowed others to claim themselves as Al Qaeda or to blame it.
By allowing Al Qaeda to become the top brand name of international terrorism, Washington has packaged the "enemy" into something with a structure, a leader, and a main area of operation.
An invisible, amorphous enemy may be even more frightening. But we must be honest with the facts in order to construct a viable long-term strategy to combat terrorism.
The following article appeared in the May 23, 2002 edition of The Christian Science Monitor.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0523/p11s02-coop.html
Debunk the myth of Al Qaeda
Its size and reach have been blown out of proportion
By Kimberly A. McCloud and Adam Dolnik
MONTEREY, CALIF. – News reports indicate that Al Qaeda, ousted from its camps in Afghanistan, is now on the loose, spreading terror around the world.
Several recent attacks have been claimed by or attributed to the terrorist network, including an assault on a Jewish synagogue in Tunisia, multiple explosions in Yemen last month (including one at the US Embassy compound), attacks in the Philippines, and a fire in the Milan metro.
But is Al Qaeda really behind all these attacks?
Analysts cite differences in modus operandi compared with alleged past attacks, as well as more probable perpetrators in those recent incidents. Still, Al Qaeda is likely to be the top suspect in future incidents. Victims, including states, may even blame Al Qaeda for political reasons, namely to gain US sympathy and support.
Would-be terrorists the world over may be inspired to perpetrate attacks, seeking to feel they are part of what they perceive as a large, powerful terrorist movement. The public perception that Al Qaeda is running wild is likely to increase fear, especially among Americans.
Such concern, when translated into a heightened vigilance about one's surroundings – particularly in light of this week's warnings about future attacks in the US – may not be a completely bad thing. But unchecked public fear, taken to an extreme, could immobilize citizens, jeopardize civil liberties, and lead America into too many fights abroad.
The United States and its allies in the war on terrorism must defuse the widespread image of Al Qaeda as a ubiquitous, super-organized terror network and call it as it is: a loose collection of groups and individuals that doesn't even refer to itself as "Al Qaeda." Most of the affiliated groups have distinct goals within their own countries or regions, and pose little direct threat to the United States. Washington must also be careful not to imply that any attack anywhere is by definition, or likely, the work of Al Qaeda.
This phenomenon of "exaggerated enemy" is not new.
In 1983, three spectacular suicide bombings in Beirut were claimed by the previously unknown "Islamic Jihad." Numerous subsequent attacks were attributed to the group. And while the intelligence community concluded that "Islamic Jihad" was a nom de guerre for the Lebanese Hizbullah, it was clear that many of the subsequent attacks were unrelated to the militant Shiia organization.
Still, the campaign succeeded in creating the image of an invincible force, and "Islamic Jihad" became a symbol to follow – much as Al Qaeda is today.
The US must be careful about its use of the term "Al Qaeda." Meaning "the base" in Arabic, it originally referred to an Afghan operational base for the mujahideen during the Soviet occupation in the '80s.
In the current context of Osama bin Laden's terror network, this name was imposed externally by Western officials and media sources. Mr. bin Laden has, in fact, never mentioned "Al Qaeda" publicly.
In the quest to define the enemy, the US and its allies have helped to blow it out of proportion. Posters and matchbooks featuring bin Laden's face and the reward for his capture in a dozen languages transformed this little-known "jihadist" into a household name and, in some places, a symbol of heroic defiance.
By committing itself to eradicating terrorism, the Bush administration has put itself in a difficult position, especially if "Al Qaeda" begins popping up all over the map. While the US government must be diligent in protecting its citizens, it cannot try to extinguish every terrorist flame that appears without further encouraging the phenomenon as well as exhausting its resources. America must choose its battles wisely.
Resisting immediate attribution of attacks to Al Qaeda is the first step in defusing the enemy. While the Bush administration has not necessarily been blaming all post-9/11 attacks on Al Qaeda, it has passively allowed others to claim themselves as Al Qaeda or to blame it.
By allowing Al Qaeda to become the top brand name of international terrorism, Washington has packaged the "enemy" into something with a structure, a leader, and a main area of operation.
An invisible, amorphous enemy may be even more frightening. But we must be honest with the facts in order to construct a viable long-term strategy to combat terrorism.
Posted by: Natasha at February 04, 2006 02:10 PM (i6py+)
87
Just in case you misunderstood me before "Natasha"...SHUT THE HELL UP!!!
Posted by: Clyde at February 04, 2006 08:37 PM (ALwK/)
Posted by: Natasha at February 05, 2006 01:23 PM (i6py+)
89
No...Just You!!!
Posted by: Clyde at February 05, 2006 08:36 PM (ALwK/)
90
You don't hate me. You don't even know me. No. You just hate the truth.
Posted by: Natasha at February 08, 2006 11:30 PM (i6py+)
91
An Al CIAda psychological operation (psyop) in action.
"Why did it take five months for what Western media dubbed 'instant reactions to the insult' to materialize?"
'Muhammad cartoon'
proved fake
Imam added 3 especially provocative images to fuel outrage
Posted: February 8, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48718
One of three especially inflammatory but undocumented Muhammad images distributed by a Danish imam as an example of an "anti-Muslim environment" in the European country turns out to be a poorly reproduced copy of an Associated Press photo taken at a French pig-squealing contest.
The weblog NeanderNews pointed out the image used by Imam Ahmad Abu Laban was a faxed copy of AP's Aug. 15 photo of Jacques Barrot competing at the annual French Pig-Squealing Championships in Trie-sur-Baise.
Since last week, Muslims throughout the world have engaged in protests and deadly riots in response to 12 cartoons caricaturing Islam's prophet Muhammad published in September by the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten and three much more provocative images that Muslim leaders have been unable to document.
One of those images of mysterious origin, which never were published, is from the AP photo. Another depicts Muhammad as a pedophile demon and a third has a praying Muslim being raped by a dog, according to the weblog Gateway Pundit.
Abu Laban, leader of the Islamic Society of Denmark, took the images on a tour of the Middle East in December to rally support for his protest against the newspaper and Danish government. Tour spokesman Akhmad Akkari explained the three drawings had been added to "give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims."
Akkari claimed he didn't know the origin of the three images, saying they had been sent anonymously to Danish Muslims. But he rejected a request by the Danish newspaper Ekstra Bladet to speak with the people who supposedly received them.
In a television interview, Abu Laban told Fox News the cartoons came from threatening letters, but he has not replied to the network's request to provide copies of the letters.
A profile of Abu Laban Friday night on Danish television documented his close ties to the Egyptian terrorist group Gamaa Islamiya.
Another program the same evening showed him speaking in English on Danish television in condemnation of the boycott of Danish goods, then, in an interview with the Middle East news channel al-Jazeera, happily remarking in Arabic about how well the boycott was going.
Walid Phares, senior fellow with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies in Washington, asked in an article published on Counterterrorism blog, "Why did it take five months for what Western media dubbed 'instant reactions to the insult' to materialize?"
Leaders of the Muslim community in Denmark said they attempted to resolve the matter locally by asking the newspaper or government to apologize.
But some analysts, Phares said, "see more of a greater agenda: taking advantage of the harm made by the pictures to impose a new political order in that Scandinavian country, and beyond."
Abu Laban seemed to affirm that in the interview with Fox News, which was noted by Gateway Pundit.
The Muslim cleric told reporter Jonathan Hunt of his demand that Danish leaders "within their abilities and competence and within the concept of dynamism of liberalism to create … a new set of rules. … "
Hunt: So, you want a new set of rules for the way Western Europe lives?
Abu Laban: Yes.
[the cartoons in question are here]
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48718
"Why did it take five months for what Western media dubbed 'instant reactions to the insult' to materialize?"
'Muhammad cartoon'
proved fake
Imam added 3 especially provocative images to fuel outrage
Posted: February 8, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48718
One of three especially inflammatory but undocumented Muhammad images distributed by a Danish imam as an example of an "anti-Muslim environment" in the European country turns out to be a poorly reproduced copy of an Associated Press photo taken at a French pig-squealing contest.
The weblog NeanderNews pointed out the image used by Imam Ahmad Abu Laban was a faxed copy of AP's Aug. 15 photo of Jacques Barrot competing at the annual French Pig-Squealing Championships in Trie-sur-Baise.
Since last week, Muslims throughout the world have engaged in protests and deadly riots in response to 12 cartoons caricaturing Islam's prophet Muhammad published in September by the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten and three much more provocative images that Muslim leaders have been unable to document.
One of those images of mysterious origin, which never were published, is from the AP photo. Another depicts Muhammad as a pedophile demon and a third has a praying Muslim being raped by a dog, according to the weblog Gateway Pundit.
Abu Laban, leader of the Islamic Society of Denmark, took the images on a tour of the Middle East in December to rally support for his protest against the newspaper and Danish government. Tour spokesman Akhmad Akkari explained the three drawings had been added to "give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims."
Akkari claimed he didn't know the origin of the three images, saying they had been sent anonymously to Danish Muslims. But he rejected a request by the Danish newspaper Ekstra Bladet to speak with the people who supposedly received them.
In a television interview, Abu Laban told Fox News the cartoons came from threatening letters, but he has not replied to the network's request to provide copies of the letters.
A profile of Abu Laban Friday night on Danish television documented his close ties to the Egyptian terrorist group Gamaa Islamiya.
Another program the same evening showed him speaking in English on Danish television in condemnation of the boycott of Danish goods, then, in an interview with the Middle East news channel al-Jazeera, happily remarking in Arabic about how well the boycott was going.
Walid Phares, senior fellow with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies in Washington, asked in an article published on Counterterrorism blog, "Why did it take five months for what Western media dubbed 'instant reactions to the insult' to materialize?"
Leaders of the Muslim community in Denmark said they attempted to resolve the matter locally by asking the newspaper or government to apologize.
But some analysts, Phares said, "see more of a greater agenda: taking advantage of the harm made by the pictures to impose a new political order in that Scandinavian country, and beyond."
Abu Laban seemed to affirm that in the interview with Fox News, which was noted by Gateway Pundit.
The Muslim cleric told reporter Jonathan Hunt of his demand that Danish leaders "within their abilities and competence and within the concept of dynamism of liberalism to create … a new set of rules. … "
Hunt: So, you want a new set of rules for the way Western Europe lives?
Abu Laban: Yes.
[the cartoons in question are here]
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48718
Posted by: Natasha at February 09, 2006 12:00 AM (i6py+)
92
What makes this bitch anymore important than the previous hostages that were killed? WTF are you people thinking. Ohh... let's give in to the terrorists, let us obey their every word and release other terrorists. Wake up you liberal jerks, stop being so god dam soft. Why should the United States do anything for her? afterall, we don't give into terrorist demands. They can kill her for all I care.
P.S. Somebody should tell her to stop dressing like a terrorist, she looks ridiculous with that cloth over her head.
P.S. Somebody should tell her to stop dressing like a terrorist, she looks ridiculous with that cloth over her head.
Posted by: anthony at February 09, 2006 05:31 PM (pf1KG)
93
Another perfect example of how morally superior Christians are to those barbaric Muslims huh?
By the way. Women are required to wear that "cloth" over there. It doesn't matter who they are or why they are there.
By the way. Women are required to wear that "cloth" over there. It doesn't matter who they are or why they are there.
Posted by: Natasha at February 09, 2006 08:46 PM (i6py+)
94
So much of what is happening are propaganda stunts sponsored by U.S imperial agents to fan the flames of war and aggression. With that said I'd say things do not look good for Jill. My guess is that she will be brutally killed, on video of course, so the world can witness the villan Arabs, who according to W "have no soul."
Thusly American sheeple are made ready for the attack. Orwell spins in his grave. jamie
jamie
So much of what is happening are propaganda stunts sponsored by U.S imperial agents to fan the flames of war and aggression. With that said I'd say things do not look good for Jill. My guess is that she will be brutally killed, on video of course, so the world can witness the villan Arabs, who according to W "have no soul."
Thusly American sheeple are made ready for the attack. Orwell spins in his grave. jamie
jamie
Posted by: jamie at February 10, 2006 10:56 PM (cKIVQ)
95
Very well said Jamie.
It still amazes me how blind so many people are to these things. It all seems so very obvious to me.
Certainly the modus/opportunity/timing and motivation revealed by the agenda being profited, would be enough to make any decent police detective or FBI investigator, place BushcoHaliburtoninc as the number one suspect if kidnap/extortion/serial murder unsubs were being profiled.
The structure shows these things to be standard wartime 'making of the enemy' propaganda. But the degree of viciousness and callous nature of methodology exceeds anything previously done in wartime by anyone to garner civil support for a war.
In light of these things W's accusation of 'their' supposed soulessness is doubly chilling.
It still amazes me how blind so many people are to these things. It all seems so very obvious to me.
Certainly the modus/opportunity/timing and motivation revealed by the agenda being profited, would be enough to make any decent police detective or FBI investigator, place BushcoHaliburtoninc as the number one suspect if kidnap/extortion/serial murder unsubs were being profiled.
The structure shows these things to be standard wartime 'making of the enemy' propaganda. But the degree of viciousness and callous nature of methodology exceeds anything previously done in wartime by anyone to garner civil support for a war.
In light of these things W's accusation of 'their' supposed soulessness is doubly chilling.
Posted by: Natasha at February 11, 2006 06:14 AM (i6py+)
96
“There’s a complete lack of empathy from senior officers who don’t know what it’s like to be a combat soldier on the ground,†Rebrook said. “There’s a whole lot of people who don’t want to help you. They’re more concerned with process than product.â€
[article excerpt]
The Charleston Gazette
February 07, 2006
Soldier pays for armor
Army demanded $700 from city man who was wounded
By Eric Eyre
Staff writer
The last time 1st Lt. William “Eddie†Rebrook IV saw his body armor, he was lying on a stretcher in Iraq, his arm shattered and covered in blood.
A field medic tied a tourniquet around Rebrook’s right arm to stanch the bleeding from shrapnel wounds. Soldiers yanked off his blood-soaked body armor. He never saw it again.
But last week, Rebrook was forced to pay $700 for that body armor, blown up by a roadside bomb more than a year ago.
“I last saw the [body armor] when it was pulled off my bleeding body while I was being evacuated in a helicopter,†Rebrook said. “They took it off me and burned it.â€
But no one documented that he lost his Kevlar body armor during battle, he said. No one wrote down that armor had apparently been incinerated as a biohazard.
Rebrook’s mother, Beckie Drumheler, said she was saddened — and angry — when she learned that the Army discharged her son with a $700 bill. Soldiers who serve their country, those who put their lives on the line, deserve better, she said.
“It’s outrageous, ridiculous and unconscionable,†Drumheler said. “I wanted to stand on a street corner and yell through a megaphone about this.â€
For the rest of the article go here.
http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/2006020623?pt=0
Face it. They don't care about any of us, or anything other, than getting what the want.
“There’s a complete lack of empathy from senior officers who don’t know what it’s like to be a combat soldier on the ground,†Rebrook said. “There’s a whole lot of people who don’t want to help you. They’re more concerned with process than product.â€
[article excerpt]
The Charleston Gazette
February 07, 2006
Soldier pays for armor
Army demanded $700 from city man who was wounded
By Eric Eyre
Staff writer
The last time 1st Lt. William “Eddie†Rebrook IV saw his body armor, he was lying on a stretcher in Iraq, his arm shattered and covered in blood.
A field medic tied a tourniquet around Rebrook’s right arm to stanch the bleeding from shrapnel wounds. Soldiers yanked off his blood-soaked body armor. He never saw it again.
But last week, Rebrook was forced to pay $700 for that body armor, blown up by a roadside bomb more than a year ago.
“I last saw the [body armor] when it was pulled off my bleeding body while I was being evacuated in a helicopter,†Rebrook said. “They took it off me and burned it.â€
But no one documented that he lost his Kevlar body armor during battle, he said. No one wrote down that armor had apparently been incinerated as a biohazard.
Rebrook’s mother, Beckie Drumheler, said she was saddened — and angry — when she learned that the Army discharged her son with a $700 bill. Soldiers who serve their country, those who put their lives on the line, deserve better, she said.
“It’s outrageous, ridiculous and unconscionable,†Drumheler said. “I wanted to stand on a street corner and yell through a megaphone about this.â€
For the rest of the article go here.
http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/2006020623?pt=0
Face it. They don't care about any of us, or anything other, than getting what the want.
Posted by: Natasha at February 11, 2006 06:34 AM (i6py+)
97
Hey guys Guess what? Jill Carrol doesn't have enough insight or individuality to know not to where bell bottoms under that stupid burka. So much for the independant thinker with strong opinions. Just another dumb girl which puts her in the majority.
Posted by: mark at February 24, 2006 03:30 PM (phAW+)
Posted by: Natasha at February 25, 2006 04:40 PM (i6py+)
99
Thanks for the correction, Natasha
Let me practise for a second.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
Now-Girls are dumb and where bell bottoms all the time and pull their eyebrows out into nothing because almost all of them are dumb Like Jill Carroll. I'm so glad that I'm 37 and my sex drive has declined to the point where I don't have to talk to girls any more. I used to have to talk to them when I was younger but now I'm free. I'm also very glad I've never been married because I don't want to do anything for any women and I don't care what their hopes and dreams or opinions are about anything. I also am not going to listen to someone's talking to me about nothing constantly.
Here's a little advice for you younger guys out there. If you want to get laid act as though you care what the girl has to say and keep the conversation about nothing. If you bring up anything complicated, 99% of the time you're going home alone. Also, don't get married because once the sex dies off you're stuck paying the bills of a nagging woman who will always be complaining and you'll never get anything out of the situation.
For all you Carroll fans, don't worry they're not going to kill her. They'll let her go and then she'll have a press conference in her bell bottoms.
Let me practise for a second.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
Now-Girls are dumb and where bell bottoms all the time and pull their eyebrows out into nothing because almost all of them are dumb Like Jill Carroll. I'm so glad that I'm 37 and my sex drive has declined to the point where I don't have to talk to girls any more. I used to have to talk to them when I was younger but now I'm free. I'm also very glad I've never been married because I don't want to do anything for any women and I don't care what their hopes and dreams or opinions are about anything. I also am not going to listen to someone's talking to me about nothing constantly.
Here's a little advice for you younger guys out there. If you want to get laid act as though you care what the girl has to say and keep the conversation about nothing. If you bring up anything complicated, 99% of the time you're going home alone. Also, don't get married because once the sex dies off you're stuck paying the bills of a nagging woman who will always be complaining and you'll never get anything out of the situation.
For all you Carroll fans, don't worry they're not going to kill her. They'll let her go and then she'll have a press conference in her bell bottoms.
Posted by: mark at February 27, 2006 02:28 PM (pTTG7)
100
Thanks for the correction, Natasha.
Let me practise for a second.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
Now-Girls are dumb and where bell bottoms all the time and pull their eyebrows out into nothing because almost all of them are dumb Like Jill Carroll. I'm so glad that I'm 37 and my sex drive has declined to the point where I don't have to talk to girls any more. I used to have to talk to them when I was younger but now I'm free. I'm also very glad I've never been married because I don't want to do anything for any women and I don't care what their hopes and dreams or opinions are about anything. I also am not going to listen to someone's talking to me about nothing constantly.
Here's a little advice for you younger guys out there. If you want to get laid act as though you care what the girl has to say and keep the conversation about nothing. If you bring up anything complicated, 99% of the time you're going home alone. Also, don't get married because once the sex dies off you're stuck paying the bills of a nagging woman who will always be complaining and you'll never get anything out of the situation.
For all you Carroll fans, don't worry they're not going to kill her. They'll let her go and then she'll have a press conference in her bell bottoms.
Let me practise for a second.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
I don't wear baggy pants or pants that are stacked up at the bottom.
Now-Girls are dumb and where bell bottoms all the time and pull their eyebrows out into nothing because almost all of them are dumb Like Jill Carroll. I'm so glad that I'm 37 and my sex drive has declined to the point where I don't have to talk to girls any more. I used to have to talk to them when I was younger but now I'm free. I'm also very glad I've never been married because I don't want to do anything for any women and I don't care what their hopes and dreams or opinions are about anything. I also am not going to listen to someone's talking to me about nothing constantly.
Here's a little advice for you younger guys out there. If you want to get laid act as though you care what the girl has to say and keep the conversation about nothing. If you bring up anything complicated, 99% of the time you're going home alone. Also, don't get married because once the sex dies off you're stuck paying the bills of a nagging woman who will always be complaining and you'll never get anything out of the situation.
For all you Carroll fans, don't worry they're not going to kill her. They'll let her go and then she'll have a press conference in her bell bottoms.
Posted by: mark at February 27, 2006 02:28 PM (pTTG7)
101
Oops misspelled wear again and practice too. WHere's Natasha when I need her?
Posted by: mark at February 27, 2006 02:43 PM (pTTG7)
102
My heart goes out to Jill, but only because she's a total babe. I don't think I'd be paying attention if she wasn't good-looking.
Posted by: Dave at February 27, 2006 02:44 PM (8EHMm)
103
Now we have the true Natasha. Conspiracies everywhere! No matter what it is, no matter who did it, the CIA is behind it! I'm wondering; is this the bumbling CIA who couldn't get any intel straight and couldn't connect the simplest of dots - or the CIA who controls the world as if it were their own private puppet show ... MuWAHAHAHA.
(Sooper sekrit note to self: remember to tell Natasha "'tis best to link to information on the net instead of copying and pasting reams and reams of someone else's work.")
Natasha, you're proving to be a real lightweight, dear.
(Sooper sekrit note to self: remember to tell Natasha "'tis best to link to information on the net instead of copying and pasting reams and reams of someone else's work.")
Natasha, you're proving to be a real lightweight, dear.
Posted by: Oyster at February 27, 2006 05:31 PM (YudAC)
104
OK. Who brought the trollhouse kookies?
Posted by: Natasha at February 27, 2006 05:40 PM (i6py+)
105
Uh, excuse me - "troll" speaking:
For your information there are logical and reasonable explanations for all your "conspiracies". Not that logic or reason comprises any part of your repertoire.
1) ICE facilities - ICE facilities serve many purposes. They are not detainment camps in the manner you imply no matter what you read in the media. That is all hype and baloney. They are for containment purposes for emergency reasons such as disease outbreaks that may occur naturally or by reason of mass immigration of infected persons or by reason of deliberate measures like a terrorist organization which may spread, by any means, something like typhoid, plague or any type of infectious organism. They are also for the detainment of mass illegal immigrants as well as for the use of military personnel to facilitate proper procedures of containment for any manner of issues. If they're building new facilities, my guess would be that they finally intend to detain a great deal of illegals and facilitate their deportation. Sure, such things, like anything else, could be used for nefarious purposes, but this is not for the "secret" purposes of detaining American citizens or anyone for political reasons as the media vaguely implies.
2) Cartoons - To imply that the origin of the anomalous cartoons used by the Danish Imams were CIA contrived measures to enrage the Muslim community is ridiculous. The Danish Imams did this to enrage their own people as it is "their" support which is waning.
3) Jill Carroll - To imply that the CIA is "controlling" Ms. Carroll's kidnappers to drum up waning support for the war is absurd. Common sense dictates that this provides more fodder for the opposition to the war than anything. Hence my remark, is this the incredibly stupid CIA or the fantastically smart CIA?
There are many and varied reasons to be angry at our government that are legitimate and well founded. To make phantasmagorical, conspiratorial stuff up only detracts from those legitimate issues.
Furthermore, I understand it's hard for you to see (you know, "forest for the trees" and all that), but trolls are people who show up new in blogs and immediately display a manner contrary to that of the majority of the group, calling people names, disseminating unproven and unfounded conspiracies, displaying moral superiority and propagating thoroughly debunked or non-factual information. Contrary to your belief, those of us who
come here regularly and have for a long time are
educated objective people. We don't fall for every conspiracy that comes down the pipe and prefer fact over fiction or imagination.
Of course, I could just be a CIA puppet planted here to deflect criticism and obfuscate the issues here. Or I could be a "blind Bush supporter" who can't tell truth from fiction as I lockstep to my master's command and the Zionist conspiracy.
Or I could simply be a realist. Whatever the case, your opinion of me means nothing.
For your information there are logical and reasonable explanations for all your "conspiracies". Not that logic or reason comprises any part of your repertoire.
1) ICE facilities - ICE facilities serve many purposes. They are not detainment camps in the manner you imply no matter what you read in the media. That is all hype and baloney. They are for containment purposes for emergency reasons such as disease outbreaks that may occur naturally or by reason of mass immigration of infected persons or by reason of deliberate measures like a terrorist organization which may spread, by any means, something like typhoid, plague or any type of infectious organism. They are also for the detainment of mass illegal immigrants as well as for the use of military personnel to facilitate proper procedures of containment for any manner of issues. If they're building new facilities, my guess would be that they finally intend to detain a great deal of illegals and facilitate their deportation. Sure, such things, like anything else, could be used for nefarious purposes, but this is not for the "secret" purposes of detaining American citizens or anyone for political reasons as the media vaguely implies.
2) Cartoons - To imply that the origin of the anomalous cartoons used by the Danish Imams were CIA contrived measures to enrage the Muslim community is ridiculous. The Danish Imams did this to enrage their own people as it is "their" support which is waning.
3) Jill Carroll - To imply that the CIA is "controlling" Ms. Carroll's kidnappers to drum up waning support for the war is absurd. Common sense dictates that this provides more fodder for the opposition to the war than anything. Hence my remark, is this the incredibly stupid CIA or the fantastically smart CIA?
There are many and varied reasons to be angry at our government that are legitimate and well founded. To make phantasmagorical, conspiratorial stuff up only detracts from those legitimate issues.
Furthermore, I understand it's hard for you to see (you know, "forest for the trees" and all that), but trolls are people who show up new in blogs and immediately display a manner contrary to that of the majority of the group, calling people names, disseminating unproven and unfounded conspiracies, displaying moral superiority and propagating thoroughly debunked or non-factual information. Contrary to your belief, those of us who
come here regularly and have for a long time are
educated objective people. We don't fall for every conspiracy that comes down the pipe and prefer fact over fiction or imagination.
Of course, I could just be a CIA puppet planted here to deflect criticism and obfuscate the issues here. Or I could be a "blind Bush supporter" who can't tell truth from fiction as I lockstep to my master's command and the Zionist conspiracy.
Or I could simply be a realist. Whatever the case, your opinion of me means nothing.
Posted by: Oyster at February 28, 2006 10:03 AM (7YTVr)
106
I am not going to rise to the bait being trolled by those who wish to divert the topic of this thread. I don't care who the trolls "really are", and I not going waste my time speculating upon their motives. Such childish nonsense is a complete waste of time.
I hope that Jill Carroll will be released unharmed very soon. I think such hope is still well within reason, and to me her safe return is of primary importance. I look forward to hearing some good news about her very soon.
I hope that Jill Carroll will be released unharmed very soon. I think such hope is still well within reason, and to me her safe return is of primary importance. I look forward to hearing some good news about her very soon.
Posted by: Natasha at February 28, 2006 11:53 AM (i6py+)
107
hahaha. Divert the topic of the thread? Oh, that's rich. Your hypocrisy is amazing.
Posted by: Oyster at February 28, 2006 02:13 PM (zCI3+)
108
I wonder what the Nazis called their "detention facilities"? I wonder also what official explanation the Nazis gave for their construction?
The Nazis put on a good show for those sent to check out their "detention centers". That much is known. New prisoners, who hadn't already wasted away from starvation or showed obvious signs of torture, were given nice new prison jumpers and good food, to show the visiting investigators how well the "detainees" were being treated.
Why even the acronym ICE is friendly isn't it?
So how could anyone even think the new camps, being built all over the country right now, are anything but good wholesome mass detention centers? Oh dear. It just occurred to me how they could. They think. They may also remember history.
The Nazis put on a good show for those sent to check out their "detention centers". That much is known. New prisoners, who hadn't already wasted away from starvation or showed obvious signs of torture, were given nice new prison jumpers and good food, to show the visiting investigators how well the "detainees" were being treated.
Why even the acronym ICE is friendly isn't it?
So how could anyone even think the new camps, being built all over the country right now, are anything but good wholesome mass detention centers? Oh dear. It just occurred to me how they could. They think. They may also remember history.
Posted by: Natasha at February 28, 2006 05:18 PM (i6py+)
109
Ashville Citizen Times
http://citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060226/COLUMNISTS08/60224032&SearchID=73237066393288
Detention centers for who, exactly?
by Jim Buchanan
February 26, 2006 6:00 am
Columnist Tom Hennessy beat me to the punch on today’s topic in a column published Feb. 3 in the Press-Telegram of Long Beach, Calif.
The points he made also occurred to me, and they bear repeating.
Here’s the story: In late January Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR), a subsidiary of Halliburton, was awarded a contract valued at up to $385 million to build detention centers.
On U.S. soil.
The story didn’t make much of a dent. It landed on A7 of the New York Times, and was barely picked up anywhere else.
A KBR press release says: “The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing Immigration and Custom Enforcement Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities. The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other U.S. Government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster. In the event of a natural disaster, the contractor could be tasked with providing housing for ICE personnel performing law enforcement functions in support of relief efforts.’’
Apparently if the centers aren’t built, KBR won’t get paid. And apparently, this is a contingency contract, not a commitment, that could cover the next five years.
KBR and Halliburton — Vice President Dick Cheney’s old firm — have been rolling in taxpayer dollars of late. KBR does a lot of work in Iraq, things like feeding the troops. They’ve also got some experience in building detention centers. The facilities at Guantanamo Bay come to mind.
Hennessy called for details about the proposal from elected representatives in California (a call I’ll repeat to those from North Carolina). He finished his column with this: “Let’s not have it said, years from now, that no one ever questioned this.’’
Hear hear, brother Tom.
What questions? Well, let’s look back at that press release. “In the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S. …’’
An optimist would say that’s wise planning. A pessimist would wonder just what could spark such an influx and why we should be planning to build detention centers. A true cynic would wonder just what constitutes an emergency influx. There are, after all, an estimated 10 million illegal immigrants currently in the country.
Anyway, this thing sounds like a plan to deal with immigration. But it could … “support the rapid development of new programs.’’
And those would be … what, exactly? The bottom line here is that there are plans ready to build large detention facilities in the United States. Not “illegal immigrant relocation centers,’’ not “emergency housing facilities.’’
Detention centers. This at a time when the government seems bent on probing and prying into the lives of Americans — while feeling no obligation to let citizens in on what’s going on.
Say another terror strike hits; perhaps everyone on the “no-fly’’ list should be put in camps. Thing is, people on that list have included infants, at least one U.S. senator, and the chairman of the House Transportation Committee.
Maybe I should be fitted for a tinfoil hat. Maybe this is no big deal. Whatever.
This stuff gives me the willies. Hennessy is right. We have to ask questions. We especially have to ask them in an era of fear.
http://citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060226/COLUMNISTS08/60224032&SearchID=73237066393288
Detention centers for who, exactly?
by Jim Buchanan
February 26, 2006 6:00 am
Columnist Tom Hennessy beat me to the punch on today’s topic in a column published Feb. 3 in the Press-Telegram of Long Beach, Calif.
The points he made also occurred to me, and they bear repeating.
Here’s the story: In late January Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR), a subsidiary of Halliburton, was awarded a contract valued at up to $385 million to build detention centers.
On U.S. soil.
The story didn’t make much of a dent. It landed on A7 of the New York Times, and was barely picked up anywhere else.
A KBR press release says: “The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing Immigration and Custom Enforcement Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities. The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other U.S. Government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster. In the event of a natural disaster, the contractor could be tasked with providing housing for ICE personnel performing law enforcement functions in support of relief efforts.’’
Apparently if the centers aren’t built, KBR won’t get paid. And apparently, this is a contingency contract, not a commitment, that could cover the next five years.
KBR and Halliburton — Vice President Dick Cheney’s old firm — have been rolling in taxpayer dollars of late. KBR does a lot of work in Iraq, things like feeding the troops. They’ve also got some experience in building detention centers. The facilities at Guantanamo Bay come to mind.
Hennessy called for details about the proposal from elected representatives in California (a call I’ll repeat to those from North Carolina). He finished his column with this: “Let’s not have it said, years from now, that no one ever questioned this.’’
Hear hear, brother Tom.
What questions? Well, let’s look back at that press release. “In the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S. …’’
An optimist would say that’s wise planning. A pessimist would wonder just what could spark such an influx and why we should be planning to build detention centers. A true cynic would wonder just what constitutes an emergency influx. There are, after all, an estimated 10 million illegal immigrants currently in the country.
Anyway, this thing sounds like a plan to deal with immigration. But it could … “support the rapid development of new programs.’’
And those would be … what, exactly? The bottom line here is that there are plans ready to build large detention facilities in the United States. Not “illegal immigrant relocation centers,’’ not “emergency housing facilities.’’
Detention centers. This at a time when the government seems bent on probing and prying into the lives of Americans — while feeling no obligation to let citizens in on what’s going on.
Say another terror strike hits; perhaps everyone on the “no-fly’’ list should be put in camps. Thing is, people on that list have included infants, at least one U.S. senator, and the chairman of the House Transportation Committee.
Maybe I should be fitted for a tinfoil hat. Maybe this is no big deal. Whatever.
This stuff gives me the willies. Hennessy is right. We have to ask questions. We especially have to ask them in an era of fear.
Posted by: Natasha at February 28, 2006 05:33 PM (i6py+)
110
Can we get any alien world domination theories in here. Farrakhan's always talking about the mother ship hovering just outside our atmosphere. If we ad the twelve supreme court justices to the six members of the board of governors on the federal reserve board we have eighteen. But if we throw in Jill Carroll it becomes Farrakhan's ancient evil number nineteen he's always complaining about. That's gotta mean something.
Muwahahahaha
You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads! Now evidently my cycloptic colleague informs me that that cannot be done. Ah, would you remind me what I pay you people for, honestly? Throw me a bone here! What do we have?
Muwahahahaha
You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads! Now evidently my cycloptic colleague informs me that that cannot be done. Ah, would you remind me what I pay you people for, honestly? Throw me a bone here! What do we have?
Posted by: mark at February 28, 2006 05:39 PM (ruuNT)
111
Homeland Security Contracts for Vast New Detention Camps
http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=eed74d9d44c30493706fe03f4c9b3a77
News Analysis/Commentary, Peter Dale Scott,
New America Media, Feb 08, 2006
Editor's Note: A little-known $385 million contract for Halliburton subsidiary KBR to build detention facilities for "an emergency influx of immigrants" is another step down the Bush administration's road toward martial law, the writer says.
BERKELEY, Calif.--A Halliburton subsidiary has just received a $385 million contract from the Department of Homeland Security to provide "temporary detention and processing capabilities."
The contract -- announced Jan. 24 by the engineering and construction firm KBR -- calls for preparing for "an emergency influx of immigrants, or to support the rapid development of new programs" in the event of other emergencies, such as "a natural disaster." The release offered no details about where Halliburton was to build these facilities, or when.
To date, some newspapers have worried that open-ended provisions in the contract could lead to cost overruns, such as have occurred with KBR in Iraq. A Homeland Security spokesperson has responded that this is a "contingency contract" and that conceivably no centers might be built. But almost no paper so far has discussed the possibility that detention centers could be used to detain American citizens if the Bush administration were to declare martial law.
For those who follow covert government operations abroad and at home, the contract evoked ominous memories of Oliver North's controversial Rex-84 "readiness exercise" in 1984. This called for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to round up and detain 400,000 imaginary "refugees," in the context of "uncontrolled population movements" over the Mexican border into the United States. North's activities raised civil liberties concerns in both Congress and the Justice Department. The concerns persist.
"Almost certainly this is preparation for a roundup after the next 9/11 for Mid-Easterners, Muslims and possibly dissenters," says Daniel Ellsberg, a former military analyst who in 1971 released the Pentagon Papers, the U.S. military's account of its activities in Vietnam. "They've already done this on a smaller scale, with the 'special registration' detentions of immigrant men from Muslim countries, and with Guantanamo."
Plans for detention facilities or camps have a long history, going back to fears in the 1970s of a national uprising by black militants. As Alonzo Chardy reported in the Miami Herald on July 5, 1987, an executive order for continuity of government (COG) had been drafted in 1982 by FEMA head Louis Giuffrida. The order called for "suspension of the Constitution" and "declaration of martial law." The martial law portions of the plan were outlined in a memo by Giuffrida's deputy, John Brinkerhoff.
In 1985, President Reagan signed National Security Decision Directive 188, one of a series of directives that authorized continued planning for COG by a private parallel government.
Two books, James Mann's "Rise of the Vulcans" and James Bamford's "A Pretext for War," have revealed that in the 1980s this parallel structure, operating outside normal government channels, included the then-head of G. D. Searle and Co., Donald Rumsfeld, and then-Congressman from Wyoming Dick Cheney.
After 9/11, new martial law plans began to surface similar to those of FEMA in the 1980s. In January 2002 the Pentagon submitted a proposal for deploying troops on American streets. One month later John Brinkerhoff, the author of the 1982 FEMA memo, published an article arguing for the legality of using U.S. troops for purposes of domestic security.
Then in April 2002, Defense Dept. officials implemented a plan for domestic U.S. military operations by creating a new U.S. Northern Command (CINC-NORTHCOM) for the continental United States. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld called this "the most sweeping set of changes since the unified command system was set up in 1946."
The NORTHCOM commander, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld announced, is responsible for "homeland defense and also serves as head of the North American A-e-rospace Defense Command (NORAD).... He will command U.S. forces that operate within the United States in support of civil authorities. The command will provide civil support not only in response to attacks, but for natural disasters."
John Brinkerhoff later commented on PBS that, "The United States itself is now for the first time since the War of 1812 a theater of war. That means that we should apply, in my view, the same kind of command structure in the United States that we apply in other theaters of war."
Then in response to Hurricane Katrina in Sept. 2005, according to the Washington Post, White House senior adviser Karl Rove told the governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, that she should explore legal options to impose martial law "or as close as we can get." The White House tried vigorously, but ultimately failed, to compel Gov. Blanco to yield control of the state National Guard.
Also in September, NORTHCOM conducted its highly classified Granite Shadow exercise in Washington. As William Arkin reported in the Washington Post, "Granite Shadow is yet another new Top Secret and compartmented operation related to the military's extra-legal powers regarding weapons of mass destruction. It allows for emergency military operations in the United States without civilian supervision or control."
It is clear that the Bush administration is thinking seriously about martial law.
Many critics have alleged that FEMA's spectacular failure to respond to Katrina followed from a deliberate White House policy: of paring back FEMA, and instead strengthening the military for responses to disasters.
A multimillion program for detention facilities will greatly increase NORTHCOM's ability to respond to any domestic disorders.
http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=eed74d9d44c30493706fe03f4c9b3a77
News Analysis/Commentary, Peter Dale Scott,
New America Media, Feb 08, 2006
Editor's Note: A little-known $385 million contract for Halliburton subsidiary KBR to build detention facilities for "an emergency influx of immigrants" is another step down the Bush administration's road toward martial law, the writer says.
BERKELEY, Calif.--A Halliburton subsidiary has just received a $385 million contract from the Department of Homeland Security to provide "temporary detention and processing capabilities."
The contract -- announced Jan. 24 by the engineering and construction firm KBR -- calls for preparing for "an emergency influx of immigrants, or to support the rapid development of new programs" in the event of other emergencies, such as "a natural disaster." The release offered no details about where Halliburton was to build these facilities, or when.
To date, some newspapers have worried that open-ended provisions in the contract could lead to cost overruns, such as have occurred with KBR in Iraq. A Homeland Security spokesperson has responded that this is a "contingency contract" and that conceivably no centers might be built. But almost no paper so far has discussed the possibility that detention centers could be used to detain American citizens if the Bush administration were to declare martial law.
For those who follow covert government operations abroad and at home, the contract evoked ominous memories of Oliver North's controversial Rex-84 "readiness exercise" in 1984. This called for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to round up and detain 400,000 imaginary "refugees," in the context of "uncontrolled population movements" over the Mexican border into the United States. North's activities raised civil liberties concerns in both Congress and the Justice Department. The concerns persist.
"Almost certainly this is preparation for a roundup after the next 9/11 for Mid-Easterners, Muslims and possibly dissenters," says Daniel Ellsberg, a former military analyst who in 1971 released the Pentagon Papers, the U.S. military's account of its activities in Vietnam. "They've already done this on a smaller scale, with the 'special registration' detentions of immigrant men from Muslim countries, and with Guantanamo."
Plans for detention facilities or camps have a long history, going back to fears in the 1970s of a national uprising by black militants. As Alonzo Chardy reported in the Miami Herald on July 5, 1987, an executive order for continuity of government (COG) had been drafted in 1982 by FEMA head Louis Giuffrida. The order called for "suspension of the Constitution" and "declaration of martial law." The martial law portions of the plan were outlined in a memo by Giuffrida's deputy, John Brinkerhoff.
In 1985, President Reagan signed National Security Decision Directive 188, one of a series of directives that authorized continued planning for COG by a private parallel government.
Two books, James Mann's "Rise of the Vulcans" and James Bamford's "A Pretext for War," have revealed that in the 1980s this parallel structure, operating outside normal government channels, included the then-head of G. D. Searle and Co., Donald Rumsfeld, and then-Congressman from Wyoming Dick Cheney.
After 9/11, new martial law plans began to surface similar to those of FEMA in the 1980s. In January 2002 the Pentagon submitted a proposal for deploying troops on American streets. One month later John Brinkerhoff, the author of the 1982 FEMA memo, published an article arguing for the legality of using U.S. troops for purposes of domestic security.
Then in April 2002, Defense Dept. officials implemented a plan for domestic U.S. military operations by creating a new U.S. Northern Command (CINC-NORTHCOM) for the continental United States. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld called this "the most sweeping set of changes since the unified command system was set up in 1946."
The NORTHCOM commander, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld announced, is responsible for "homeland defense and also serves as head of the North American A-e-rospace Defense Command (NORAD).... He will command U.S. forces that operate within the United States in support of civil authorities. The command will provide civil support not only in response to attacks, but for natural disasters."
John Brinkerhoff later commented on PBS that, "The United States itself is now for the first time since the War of 1812 a theater of war. That means that we should apply, in my view, the same kind of command structure in the United States that we apply in other theaters of war."
Then in response to Hurricane Katrina in Sept. 2005, according to the Washington Post, White House senior adviser Karl Rove told the governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, that she should explore legal options to impose martial law "or as close as we can get." The White House tried vigorously, but ultimately failed, to compel Gov. Blanco to yield control of the state National Guard.
Also in September, NORTHCOM conducted its highly classified Granite Shadow exercise in Washington. As William Arkin reported in the Washington Post, "Granite Shadow is yet another new Top Secret and compartmented operation related to the military's extra-legal powers regarding weapons of mass destruction. It allows for emergency military operations in the United States without civilian supervision or control."
It is clear that the Bush administration is thinking seriously about martial law.
Many critics have alleged that FEMA's spectacular failure to respond to Katrina followed from a deliberate White House policy: of paring back FEMA, and instead strengthening the military for responses to disasters.
A multimillion program for detention facilities will greatly increase NORTHCOM's ability to respond to any domestic disorders.
Posted by: Natasha at February 28, 2006 06:24 PM (i6py+)
112
"To imply that the CIA is "controlling" Ms. Carroll's kidnappers to drum up waning support for the war is absurd. Common sense dictates that this provides more fodder for the opposition to the war than anything."
If it were known, to the public, that elements within the intelligence community (including but not limited to those embedded in the CIA) were the ones behind her kidnapping (and most if not all of the other kidnappings as well) then yes it would galvanize public opposition.
They pretend to be Al Queda however, because the object is to gain support 'for' the war. It is called the making of the enemy.
The kidnappings also always take place when support for the war begins to wane. Now just whose timing would that be? Not Al Queda's certainly, because it runs counter to their agenda, of undermining support for the war.
"Hence my remark, is this the incredibly stupid CIA or the fantastically smart CIA?"
Could it be that the so called "stupid CIA" mistakes, regarding pre Iraq War intelligence, were really careful manipulations of public opinion? Once again, to garner public support, 'for' the war NOT against it.
Could it be that really, the whole "oops we messed up sorry our bad" bull shit, is an exercise in plausible deniability also? The CIA knew Iraq had no WMD, and so did Bush. They lied.
Perfect timing really, since a director already planning on retirement, could also "be a big man" about admitting "the mistakes" which happened on his watch. But Bushco Haliburton Inc and the rest of the CFR global corporate alliance get their war.
For them, it is all about the objective, by whatever means necessary.
Once again.
Why in the hell would Al Queda kidnap sympathetic journalists and peace activists? They are too stupid to know how bad that makes them look? WHAT WHAT WHAT! These supposed geniuses who pulled off 911 right in NORAD's face, being also so elusive and magically effective, that they remain a huge threat to the whole planet?!
Please use your head for a change. Drop the partisan crap and the hurt feelings. Take an objective look at what really is.
It was some body else doing the kidnapping and executions, and the actual perps being Al CIAda figured, what the hell, we can erase this nosy enemy/sympathetic journalist 'and' those pain in the ass Christian peace activists, at the same time.
I am not saying these things were done openly by the legit CIA, but rather by embeds within the Agency, and other operators of oh, say, ONI, NSA and lessor known hard/black foreign allied subintel groups, not to mention mercenary KGB left overs, who are part of shall we say a "wider agenda".
I do not for one moment assume the CIA to be "stupid", and neither do I presume them to square straight and decent boy scouts either.
If it were known, to the public, that elements within the intelligence community (including but not limited to those embedded in the CIA) were the ones behind her kidnapping (and most if not all of the other kidnappings as well) then yes it would galvanize public opposition.
They pretend to be Al Queda however, because the object is to gain support 'for' the war. It is called the making of the enemy.
The kidnappings also always take place when support for the war begins to wane. Now just whose timing would that be? Not Al Queda's certainly, because it runs counter to their agenda, of undermining support for the war.
"Hence my remark, is this the incredibly stupid CIA or the fantastically smart CIA?"
Could it be that the so called "stupid CIA" mistakes, regarding pre Iraq War intelligence, were really careful manipulations of public opinion? Once again, to garner public support, 'for' the war NOT against it.
Could it be that really, the whole "oops we messed up sorry our bad" bull shit, is an exercise in plausible deniability also? The CIA knew Iraq had no WMD, and so did Bush. They lied.
Perfect timing really, since a director already planning on retirement, could also "be a big man" about admitting "the mistakes" which happened on his watch. But Bushco Haliburton Inc and the rest of the CFR global corporate alliance get their war.
For them, it is all about the objective, by whatever means necessary.
Once again.
Why in the hell would Al Queda kidnap sympathetic journalists and peace activists? They are too stupid to know how bad that makes them look? WHAT WHAT WHAT! These supposed geniuses who pulled off 911 right in NORAD's face, being also so elusive and magically effective, that they remain a huge threat to the whole planet?!
Please use your head for a change. Drop the partisan crap and the hurt feelings. Take an objective look at what really is.
It was some body else doing the kidnapping and executions, and the actual perps being Al CIAda figured, what the hell, we can erase this nosy enemy/sympathetic journalist 'and' those pain in the ass Christian peace activists, at the same time.
I am not saying these things were done openly by the legit CIA, but rather by embeds within the Agency, and other operators of oh, say, ONI, NSA and lessor known hard/black foreign allied subintel groups, not to mention mercenary KGB left overs, who are part of shall we say a "wider agenda".
I do not for one moment assume the CIA to be "stupid", and neither do I presume them to square straight and decent boy scouts either.
Posted by: Natasha at February 28, 2006 08:00 PM (i6py+)
113
Oh my God. You Nerds are going berzerk. So far I've said girls are dumb and you guys are on State Department Reports. Let's go this way because I'm giving up here. Did the CIA sell crack to inner city minorities to fund the CONTRAS?
Anyone?...............Anyone?............
Beuller?.................Beulller?............
Natasha?..............Natasha?...........
Anyone here have frickin sharks with frickin laser beams mounted to their frickin heads? Oh and Natasha any allegations of CIA boy scout molestations?
Anyone?...............Anyone?............
Beuller?.................Beulller?............
Natasha?..............Natasha?...........
Anyone here have frickin sharks with frickin laser beams mounted to their frickin heads? Oh and Natasha any allegations of CIA boy scout molestations?
Posted by: mark at March 01, 2006 03:31 AM (YsG3A)
114
Honestly, Jill should have chosen her "friends" more carefully.
Posted by: Steve at March 03, 2006 09:41 AM (zo/+l)
115
I dont thinl she's coming home if shes even still alive
Posted by: mark at March 20, 2006 06:05 PM (BOWaf)
116
When they bring Jill's body back how will they identify the it since she'll have on the low rider bell bottoms, tramp stamp tattoo on the lower back, pierced navel, hair parted down the middle, the big chunky shoes and the high cut t-shirt just like all the other dumb girls?
Posted by: mark at March 22, 2006 12:12 PM (uG47M)
117
Jill's not coming back, guys. She may have become part of a CIA mind control plot.
Super sekrit note to self: try to score with natasha-she's probably like pretty hot and stuff. I'm glad I've still got my inner monologue. Muwahahahahahahah!
Super sekrit note to self: try to score with natasha-she's probably like pretty hot and stuff. I'm glad I've still got my inner monologue. Muwahahahahahahah!
Posted by: mark at March 22, 2006 05:37 PM (HKqZ3)
January 07, 2006
Female American Journalist Kidnapped In Baghdad
Terrorists have kidnapped a female American journalist and killed her Iraqi translator:
Scotsman—According to Mohamadawi, the translator told police before he died that she had been kidnapped and that they had been heading to meet Adnan al-Dulaimi, head of the Sunni Arab Iraqi Accordance Front who lives in the Adel neighbourhood - dominated by Sunni Arabs and considered one of toughest in Baghdad.
According to Samir Najim, a guard at al-Dulaimi's office, three armed men in a red Opel car intercepted the journalist's car and shot the translator before taking her in their car and driving away. ...
The journalist's name hasn't been revealed.
Cross-posted at OpinionBug.com
Update (1/7/2005 12:16pm):
The identity of the kidnapped woman remains unconfirmed, but two sources indicate she is Jill Carroll, a correspondent of the Christian Science Monitor:
Sources:
Euro News [ Euro News has removed all references to Jill Carroll ]
Kuwait News Agency (KUNA)
La Repubblica
Hat tip: Free Republic
Update (1/9/2005 3:58pm):
The Sunday Times Online had a story yesterday in which they said Al-Qaeda had released a statement claiming responsibility for her kidnapping:
Times Online—Attempts were being made last night to locate an American journalist who was kidnapped in Baghdad yesterday after a meeting with a senior Sunni politician. Her Iraqi translator was killed, writes Ali Rifat.
Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility for the kidnapping in a statement posted on the internet. ...
Jill, we're praying for your safe return.
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1
A number from 2 to 9, no questions, I'll check tomorrow.
Posted by: A Finn at January 07, 2006 08:38 AM (lGolT)
2
Apparently she didn't get the memo - these people are crazy fanatics who accept the most ruthless indiscrimate violence directed at innocent men, women and children as completely legitimate - and anyone not with them are either infidels or heretics.
I guess she wants to understand them. good luck.
I guess she wants to understand them. good luck.
Posted by: hondo at January 07, 2006 09:25 AM (3aakz)
3
If she's a euro-commie, she'll live. They're on the same side.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at January 07, 2006 09:35 AM (8e/V4)
4
Anti-American - yes. But the left walks a strange fineline with radical islamic fundamentalists. Beyond the first line they have nothing in common, except suppressed hatred and fear.
One day, it will blow up in their faces - what is apparent is the left's fear and willingness to be intimidated by it.
In an odd way - being anti-American is safe.
One day, it will blow up in their faces - what is apparent is the left's fear and willingness to be intimidated by it.
In an odd way - being anti-American is safe.
Posted by: hondo at January 07, 2006 09:46 AM (3aakz)
5
Note - typically the MSM and leftists would be tripping all over themselves to physically embrace and interview these guys - but this is not the case.
They will do it only from afar - less the make a mistake like her.
They will do it only from afar - less the make a mistake like her.
Posted by: hondo at January 07, 2006 09:51 AM (3aakz)
6
It's extra-special news when a *female* journalist gets kidnapped, so that goes right out in front of the headline. I'm kinda jaded lately, so female journalists aren't high enough on my pity hierarchy to work me into a lather. Now, if she had been a developmentally disabled, blind, Jewish, HIV positive female journalist, that would have made my day, but the media let me down again. I feel so unmotivated.
Posted by: ShannonKW at January 07, 2006 10:04 AM (dT1MB)
7
Common sense would say that if one chose to travelling to a notoriously dangerous neighbourhood in a dangerous country, that necessary precautions would surely constitute more than just a translator - perhaps pay for armed body guards or an unmarked police escort or maybe just do the interview over the phone. Whatever the case, I hope she makes it out okay.
Posted by: Graeme at January 07, 2006 10:35 AM (xI1Fi)
8
I read this article last night at blackfive:
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/01/cnn_despicable_.html#comments
note this reference:
When we were doing offensive operations out here, we had 25 plus reporters from CNN, USA Today, the NY Times, Time Magazine, among others. Now that the bombs aren't dropping and the cities have been stabilized... we had 1 reporter here for the elections. She is from the Christian Science Monitor.
He was talking about elections, around the Syrian border.
might not be referring to the same, however.
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/01/cnn_despicable_.html#comments
note this reference:
When we were doing offensive operations out here, we had 25 plus reporters from CNN, USA Today, the NY Times, Time Magazine, among others. Now that the bombs aren't dropping and the cities have been stabilized... we had 1 reporter here for the elections. She is from the Christian Science Monitor.
He was talking about elections, around the Syrian border.
might not be referring to the same, however.
Posted by: dave at January 07, 2006 12:24 PM (CcXvt)
9
These female terrorist sympathizers seem to be deadly for the males involved. The poor driver killed. It was also the Intelligence Agent that was killed trying to ransome the horrid Italian communist journalist Sgreana. Of course, the Italians have handled this very maturely by deciding to charge the American soldier at the checkpoint instead of the cavalier communist whose antics led to the agent's death.
If the journalist does not issue a sympathetic statement on behalf of her misunderstood captors, I apologize for being too harsh.
If the journalist does not issue a sympathetic statement on behalf of her misunderstood captors, I apologize for being too harsh.
Posted by: Kate at January 07, 2006 01:20 PM (n6ufo)
10
She's American, not a communist European. The four peacekeepers are probably dead but I could be wrong.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 07, 2006 02:10 PM (5E0ex)
11
And yes, apparently she didn't get the "GET THE HELL OUT OF IRAQ" memo. We'll being seeing her in a hostage video in a few days. She's an American so she will be held for some political demand.
Posted by: George Ramos at January 07, 2006 02:13 PM (5E0ex)
12
She may be as anti-American as can be, but just the fact that she is American will probably get her killed. I hope she makes it out OK, but like I've said before, anyone walking around that country without a belt-fed machine gun pretty much deserves to be kidnapped simply out of principle. Darwin at work maybe?
Posted by: Jack's Smirking Revenge at January 08, 2006 01:18 AM (CtVG6)
13
Does anyone know the name of the translator who was murdered?
Posted by: byrd at January 10, 2006 03:06 PM (G8flx)
14
The Christian Science Monitor says his name is Allan Enwiyah; other sources say he is Alan John Ghazi.
Posted by: Tim at January 10, 2006 03:42 PM (5rYy9)
15
Shes crazy tring to make a report, while in middle of a battle zone! but she'll be missed when her deadline expires & gets killed. I wonder if they're going to have a video of her execution like they do the other american or other hostages?
Posted by: Jeremy at January 18, 2006 06:23 AM (ZqEK2)
16
Now is the time to Pray, Pray, Pray!
Posted by: Sue at January 19, 2006 04:23 PM (xzwzw)
17
It is time to Pray but also time to understand that what She did was for the common good and that should be for both American and Iraqi people! And as the people for common good I apeal to the hearts of those who have her. Please free her she is full of love and grace you can see it her face!
Posted by: Omyra at January 19, 2006 11:51 PM (O+jgl)
18
She is anti-American, she deserves it!!!
Posted by: Jay at January 23, 2006 12:54 AM (KgZHj)
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