1 http://www.volokh.com/posts/1173703704.shtml
...was a recent post covering the 2nd as applying to individual rights.  The post itself doesn't say much, but the comments cover the back and forth pretty well.

Basically, the 2nd Amendment phrase "well-regulated" does not mean what most modern folk think it does. The phrase used to have a much more specific meaning in the context of troops: "properly disciplined."

So the way I see, the 2nd Amendment says (in a reverse structure): if people aren't allowed to own their own firearms,
we will have a really piss poor militia in a crisis, and a piss poor
militia is no good for securing a free state.


I'm no expert on 2nd Amendment law (by any means), but I like my glock.

2 Anyone with a modicum of historical knowledge and common sense can tell you that those who composed the militia of the 18th and 19th century were men who supplied their own arms, thus even if the 2nd Amendment did not say, "the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," you could make a viable argument that there is an implied right to legal gun ownership, the same way the courts have construed an implied right to privacy from the 4th Amendment. Further, it is a right supported by the long Anglo-American common law tradition. If you want to go even farther, one could quote various founders on the right of citizens to posses arms for self-defense, which may have limited usage in a court room, but then again, it is considered sound legal reasoning by most to use the Federalist papers when determining the meaning of a constitutional provision.

3 This is one of those words that seem to have values reversed when used in Iraq.

4 "The true measure of a people's freedom is whether they are armed or not." - Aristotle

I often point out to leftards that arms ownership is a basic human right (One that comes from God, and therefore one that cannot legitimately be proscribed by the puny law of man). The desciples of Christ were armed, in fact, with small swords of about 14" in blade length (I forget the exact nomenclature to describe them). The middle east was always a dangerous place.

5 I've always been rather partial to the words of the founder of my Alma Mater:

"The liberties of Rome were safe while military infomation was generally diffused and every Roman citizen considered and felt himself a soldier."

-Capt Alden Partridge

6 oh just finish the quote:

'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further,
that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to
appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common
use at the time.

7

JOHN RYAN  hey! 

I've seen you try to make that same arguement before. My gut reaction was to dismiss you as simply trying to distract folks, but I'll actually try to address your point as if you were serious.

Basically, the meaning of militia, is the same everywhere. Pretty much as it says up top, the able bodied men are the militia. If we only had pitchforks and mallets to fight with, we would still be the militia. In Iraq, and especially for Muslim men under Sharia, the meaning is no different.

What is different, is that some of the militia's are in rebellion to the elected government, and/or in alliance with non-state terrorists. Those particular militias are hostile military forces, however scattered and small, and the effort to disarm them is an effort to end the fighting. Whether it is the right thing or not depends on whose side you take.

In the USA, I take a Constitutionalists side, in favor of the rights of the individual Citizens. The Government here is ours, and it belongs to us, and it is suppossed to work for us. If it ever turns against us, and tries to oppress us, we need to sort that out by any means necessary. It is our right, and our obligation under such aberrant conditions. We are allowed to defend ourselves from our own government, and we should be wise to that possibility.

Because my country is at war, those who fight my country need to be defeated. Like any other defeated foe, they can resume thier normal rights after peace has settled in. I do not recognize the rights of those bearing arms against my country. Any mercy they recieve, is an optional courtesy, or perhaps a nod to chivalry as it used to be understood. It is not a requirement. If they are an undefeated enemy, or aiding the enemy, we should disarm them.

So it's not a double standard at all. Sure they have militias, but some of them are in opposition to the Allies. How Iarq deals with it's wayward militias after peace setttles in, will be up to Iraq. In the meantime, disarming the hostiles is all fair.

Does that make sense when filtered through your chosen reality lense? Or is there still some other question?

USA, all the way!

8 Jake (who doesn't like me anymore) I'm not trying to be snarky, so I hope you will consider this ... the language has changed. Like the words 'gay' and 'liberal' have evolved away from thier earlier meanings, and we end up using entire threads to debate what the definition of 'fascimt' is. 'Enrolled' used to mean that the local authorities knew the names of men who could answer the call, and would be reliable to follow, and obey orders. Keeping it short, I have to ask, what is your point?                                          
                                   
                             USA, all the way!

9 "what the definition of 'fascimt' is"  (Oops! "fascist") my bad.   USA, all the way!

10 Ha, Ha. If a total asshole like Jake doesn't like you wear that as a badge of honor. Means you're doing something right.

11 Words well put Professor, always a pleasure to hear you articulate. I've always had an admiration for those who are able to create a lucid, rational thought then and put it into contex that's easy to understand. Well said. Be careful that you're not labled an insurgent by pres. hillary would you?

12 Title 10 Section 311 of the US Code:



The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied

males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section

313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a

declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States

and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the

National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are -

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard

and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of

the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the

Naval Militia.

13

14 Improbulus Maximus  YEAH!  What you said!     USA, all the way!