1

Answering the question. Nobody should ever need permission to state the morally obvious. It should be an obligation to do so, if only because nobody has done so already.

Whether morally right, or not, an independent Kurdistan seems like an awfully dangerous option. Turkish Kurds will certainly try to link with Kurdistan, and I cannot imagine Kurdistan refusing to accept them.

I doubt anyone here would say I'm a peacenik. If the cause is worthy, I say our nation needs to be ready to fight for it. However, unless the USA, is willing to put it's forces into the new state, on what would be the new Turkish border, then Kurdistan will have at least one major war brewing the moment it is born. Syria, and Iran have a stake in this as well.

If we put troops on the Turkish border, it will pit NATO member against NATO member even if no shot is fired. It would be a knife in the side of our ally, and might actually worsen the situation in Turkey as far as secular government. I can only believe the Islamification of Turkey will be stoked by anti-Americanism. So...

Is it more morally right to fight the long range struggle against the Islamo-Imperialist, and preserve our friendships with a NATO ally? Or is it more moral to support a people who have a distinct culture, in acheiving statehood for themselves, especially knowing we will gain an new state ally?

Complicating this question further is the (somewhat false) perception of the USA, as the reason for Israel's existence in what much of the world calls occupied territory. A new Kurdistan, would add fuel to the claims we are a colonial power, even though we here know that nothing is further from the truth. In fact, Kurdistan the nation, may well come about without our permission, just as Israel did. (see historical fact) Surely the US would feel strongly compelled to recognize such a state, as we did with Israel. that would seal our 'guilt' in the matter.

In the long term, Kurdistan as nation, is a likely probability. In the short term, it may be more than we can handle, and we would surely get the blame for whatever went wrong.

As someone who feels we totally betrayed the Kurds in Desert Storm, I look forward to the day when they are fully free, inside a land of thier own. You can choose the right thing, at the wrong time. I think this is the wrong time. Sadly ...

USA, all the way!

2 I cannot think of any better reason for us (USA) to fully support Kurdish independance - even to the the detrament of its neighbors - even if our "allys" the Turks object.
Michael Weaver, as apologist , dilutes the long forgotten, long suffering, long over due - since the League of Nations promises - for fucks sake- dues we OWE to the Kurdish nation for resisting the encroachment off Muslim fanatisism. We protected their air space,  we should protect their their liberation - if they desire. No, the Kurds aren't perfect. They are just a damn sight better than the other fucks in the ME.
 
Fuck your complications. Fuck your calls that it is not fair - that Israel is special.Fuck you Michael Weaver.
 
meleager
 

3

Meleager: What? No one should have an opinion except you. Fuck you.

4 I dunno. The Kurds seem to be able to play well in the current system.  A federal system with some autonomy of the states.  Say a democratic republic.  If it can work, and work well for all, That is good. 

It just seems to me the Kurds are a bit smarter than the rest of Iraq. They took an opportunity and made the best of it. 

Sure the kurds "deserve" it  but ,  all of the Iraqi's "deserve" it. If the rest don't wisen up they will miss their chance. If they do then sure ,we can help turkey with border issues. We will have to be will be there to provide a balance against the Sunni arabs and Iran anyway.

5

Meleager paints me as an apologist. Interesting. I do support an eventual Kurdistan, even if Meleager chooses to miss that detail in what I said above. That Israel went and did something that we weren't ready to properly handle, is a fact. It doesn't make Israel special as far as I'm concerned. It does make Israel an example of what can go wrong if events move TO QUICKLY.

Who is Meleager?  Meleager, who are you? What is your motivation? What makes you think I don't like the idea of Kurdistan? What makes you think I don't want to continue to enrich our relations with the Kurds as a people? What makes you think that the US is politically, and militarily in the position to do for the Kurds, what it barely managed for Israel?

To make it more clear, I do not claim it isn't fair, and I don't claim that Israel is special. And I am not personally in charge of the complications that you are so willing to cast aside as trivial. I didn't invent them, and they are not trivial. Frankly, I am pretty angry with Turkey, but you cannot casually break an alliance with as much importance as our commitment to NATO. AND TO BE EXTRA CLEAR, WE ARE LIABLE TO AID TURKEY, IF SHE IS ATTACKED! That is part of our NATO commitment.

Perhaps Meleager would like us to "fuck" that as well?

And exactly how are we going to amp up for defending Kurdistan,when we are barely keeping congress from dragging our troops out of Iraq in the first place? How are we to protect a Kurdish revolution when we may have to deal with Iran at any moment? Our military isn't broken, but our subtlety factor is extremely low. Our best method for countering a Turkish attack against a united Kurdistan, is to bomb the hell out of Turkish forces.

I have no problem with bombing the hell out of Iranian, or Syrian forces, but our promise to NATO, is real. It doesn't go away because Meleager blew out all the candles on his birthday cake.

I stand by what I said, This isn't a good time for a new Kurdistan.
 
I also remind any readers who don't like my position, that Rusty DID ASK US. And I did say it's good to state the morally obvious. Which Rusty essentially did do.
 
We are in a long war. We are in a war at home in the USA, against filthy neo-Koms, and taqiyya terrorists of the Umma. We are at war abroad, with rising rogue states seeking nuclear arms, and at war with IslamoImperialists, and the bastard offspring of Marx, and Mussolini that is Hugo Chavez! We are at war economically with our new 'buddy' China, and in the process of losing Europe wholesale to the Umma, and darkness resurgent in the remnants of the USSR. You may well ask, "what is one more war on top of all that?"
 
I say when you already have a lot on your plate, it might be wise to finish whats in front of you before dishing up some more!
 
Courage is a fine and worthy thing. Courage with intelligence will still win more fights than just courage alone. Courage, intelligence, patience, and perseverance will win even more fights! We need to do our best,  and not act rashly. We can destroy any enemy, if we don't mind destroying the world as well. Anything less than our full power involves at least some kind of subtlety, and the war we are fighting is hopeful. Hopeful that we will not see the end of this world from Nuclear war, or the great fascist Islamic Caliphate.
 
Kurdistan needs to take a deep breath and count to ten, before plunging us into one more hot war at thier side. As we do support them, I think that much is at least fair. I do not see us abandoning them, but I'm against rushing in where patience is actually succeeding. Or am I unaware of some immediate crises that threatens all of Kurdistan if they are not independent by the end of the week?!
 
I don't begrudge Meleager his passions, but I do wish he would read me better ...
 
I have been for Kurdish independence since Desert Storm. My Mom spent hours, actually days making me watch the video she recorded of the Kurds from the TV broadcasts. She was totally absorbed in finding the image of one little girl, who happened to look like one of my neices, and she was worrying constantly about that girl. For months it was nearly all my Mom could talk about. As for me ...
 
I was sorry we didn't stay and finish Saddam then. I know why we didn't, and how it might have made some things worse if we had, but I still wish we hadn't left him alive. The Kurds were a huge reason for my opinion.The fact that Saddam survived the war was one reason why I ended up voting for Clinton. Bush Sr. hadn't lived up to my expectations. He left the Kurds to Saddam.
 
So I hope this clarifies my comment. Meleager, I'm sorry you feel that way. If your a Kurd (?) then I hope you believe I want you to have your state someday. I think we need to clean the plate in front of us first. I hope you can hang on for a bit longer. And in any case I do put the welfare of the USA ahead of all other nations, and I will never apologize for that. Ever.
 
USA, all the way!

6 Ah Greyrooster   Always reminding me why I like you!                 
                  USA, all the way!

7 I miss Jeff though                            USA, all the way!

8 Darth Odie,  Tip o' th' hat to ya!                USA, all the way!

9 I think there's a two pronged problem there. Kurdish identity, and some of the Kurds are Communists. The Communist Kurds are the ones in greatest conflict with the Turks, if I have been informed correctly.

How to support the Kurds and not the Communists?