April 24, 2007

The Guardian on "Fascist America"

Stupidity on parade. An excerpt (edited for truthiniess):

Italy in the 1920s, Germany in the 30s, Stalin's Soviet Union, Cuba under Castro, East Germany in the 50s, Czechoslovakia in the 60s, the Latin American dictatorships in the 70s, China in the 80s and 90s from Chairman Mao forward, North Korea under the Kims, Vietnam under Ho Chi Minh, Saddam's Iraq, the Khmer Rouge, the Taliban, Venezuela under Chavez - all dictatorships and would-be dictators target newspapers and journalists. They threaten and harass them in more open societies that they are seeking to close, and they arrest them and worse in societies that have been closed already. . . .

Joseph C Wilson accused Bush, in a New York Times op-ed, of leading the country to war on the basis of a false charge that Saddam Hussein had acquired yellowcake uranium in Niger. After making his accusations, Wilson was found dead in his home became a huge celebrity. His wife, Valerie Plame, was outed identified as a well-known CIA spy analyst - a form of retaliation that ended her career caused her to leave her CIA desk job behind for an empty life of fame and wealth. . .

You won't have a shutdown of news in modern America - it is not possible. But you can have, as Frank Rich and Sidney Blumenthal have pointed out illustrated, a steady stream of lies polluting the news well. What you already have is a White House mainstream media directing a stream of false information that is so relentless that it is increasingly hard to sort out truth from untruth. In a fascist system, it's not the lies that count but the muddying. When citizens can't tell real news from fake, they give up their demands for accountability bit by bit.

Posted by: Ragnar at 01:54 PM | Comments (43) | Add Comment
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1 How's about actually providing examples of how she's wrong? And don't forget to cite your sources my goose-stepping little friends.

Posted by: John at April 24, 2007 04:04 PM (S3Rzh)

2 BTW... have you guys seen Jessica Lynch's tesitmony? When are you planning on smearing her?

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/04/pvt_lynch_blast.html

Posted by: John at April 24, 2007 04:05 PM (S3Rzh)

3 The enemies among us are strong. Trying to break down our resolve. Sadly, Congress is leading the charge. The leakers of classified info have a pretty strong foothold as they are still leaking. The MSM gladly obliges them. I would like to require each Congressman and Senator to lurk on terrorist and terrorist supporters websites just for ONE day. That is all it takes to convince anyone that America is not to blame. I myself have been stocking up on needed supplies (hope I don't need them) after hearing all this stupid garbage from Harry Reid. Last thing I heard today on FNC is that Harry is going to cut off all funding for the troops. Reason? Bush is in denial. No, Reid is in denial and dammit if this happens I hope he is the first one the radical islamist go after.

Posted by: allahakchew at April 24, 2007 04:06 PM (BrndJ)

4 John, why would we smear Jessica Lynch? The MSM is responsible for what they reported about her. That is how honest they are, they only care about a story even if they need to invent something to make it more readible. Right now jobs are being cut as I speak as they are losing their credibility to the public as the public is tired of hearing "fake" news.

Posted by: allahakchew at April 24, 2007 04:10 PM (BrndJ)

5 Okay John, do we need to go through this again? Fascism is type of government, with real world historic examples.  The word "fascism" thus has a real meaning, and it cannot be properly used in the context which the guardian (here, Naomi Wolf) has done, namely "a type of government which we don't like."

When it comes to statist governments which intrude on personal liberty (in the economic, political, religious, or whatever sense), the Europeans have them in spades.  Europe has no legitimate "freedom of the press."  Europe has no freedom of contract.  European governments dominate the corporations.  Those are all characteristics of fascism which we see in spades in Europe, but which are remarkable absent in America.

"..the dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe."
-Tom Wolfe



Posted by: wooga at April 24, 2007 04:12 PM (t9sT5)

6 Dude. The msm reported what they were told by the Pentagon. That's the whole point of these inquiries dummy. Fuck you guys are retarded.

And Wooga... go read a dictionary.

Posted by: John at April 24, 2007 04:25 PM (S3Rzh)

7 John, of course the MSM said that. Apparantly you are very guilible.

Posted by: allahakchew at April 24, 2007 04:31 PM (BrndJ)

8 And don't forget to cite your sources my goose-stepping little friends.

Which part of National Socialism do you and your Socialist friends get confused on Herr John.

And Wooga... go read a dictionary.

Wooga owned your ass you illiterate terrorist lover. And if you want to know what fascism means one would be better educated by a political text rather than a dictionary. Fuck you very much.

Posted by: Randman at April 24, 2007 04:35 PM (Sal3J)

9 ...a steady stream of lies polluting the news well.

That pretty much describes the MSM.

Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at April 24, 2007 04:44 PM (8e/V4)

10 my favorite part is likening of conservatives to fascists - national SOCIALIST party. Is that just me or is every truth twister calling others what he himself is?

Posted by: Kamchatka Bear at April 24, 2007 04:53 PM (gtZwa)

11 Is that just me or is every truth twister calling others what he himself is?

Where do you think they came up with the name "Truther" movement?


Posted by: Randman at April 24, 2007 05:02 PM (Sal3J)

12  I copied the article to a file called "Idiot accusations of fascism"  so I can reference it again.  It helps me understand the twisted nature of the enemy to read what they write.   And as for 'media' being used by totalitarians, it seems to me there is a lot of history where stable, and fairly polite governments found themselves being pamphletered to death by left wing extremeists who when THEY DID TAKE OVER decided to shoot lots of people. When media is used to spread lies, IT CAN KILL PEOPLE!  'John' is a modern pamphletier, as may be proven by following up on his 'claims' and doing some of your own fact checking. It's time consuming, but it will help you realize what a waste of time most of his rants actually are!                     
                                               
                          USA, all the way! 

Posted by: Michael Weaver at April 24, 2007 06:30 PM (2OHpj)

13 "The dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe"

--Tom Wolfe


John, go **** yourself.

Posted by: Richard Romano at April 24, 2007 07:46 PM (iD1fP)

14 And Wooga... go read a dictionary.

John,

Pick a dictionary.  I'm sure that under whatever definition you find, countries like, say, France, will best America on all counts in the race to fascism.

Me, I'll stick to reading books without pictures.

Posted by: wooga at April 24, 2007 07:47 PM (t9sT5)

15 That was about 5 seconds in google, by the way...

Posted by: Ranba Ral at April 24, 2007 10:52 PM (VvXII)

16 From BoingboingFascist America, in 10 easy steps
Naomi
Wolf wrote an essay about the ten steps a corrupt government takes to
create a fascist state, and provides examples of what the Bush
administration is doing to fulfill the requirements of each step. Some
of Wolf's examples are quite a stretch, but others are spot on.

1 Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

2 Create a gulag

3 Develop a thug caste

4 Set up an internal surveillance system

5 Harass citizens' groups

6 Engage in arbitrary detention and release

7 Target key individuals

8 Control the press

9 Dissent equals treason

10 Suspend the rule of law


Posted by: John at April 25, 2007 12:50 AM (S3Rzh)

17 Basically, what you guys have going on down there is what I would call "fascist lite"

Posted by: John at April 25, 2007 12:51 AM (S3Rzh)

18 eh, then you could argue that any social and political system that isn't like teletubbies 24/7 (that is to say, all of them) is fascist lite.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at April 25, 2007 01:05 AM (VvXII)

19 10 easy steps
Naomi
Wolf wrote an essay about the ten steps a corrupt government takes to
create a fascist state


Again, fuckhead, just because you make up a list of attributes for something does not make it "fascist." "Fascism" means certain things, and doesn't mean other things. Naomi Wolf simply recycled some earlier truther trash which picks 10 things they don't like about America, and then says those make it fascist.  That's like me saying the Oakland Raiders are like the Nazi SS, because they utilized a skull symbol to strike fear in their opponents.  Sure it's a common attribute, and ripe for criticism, but it has nothing to do with "fascism."

Tell me John, where is the disarmament of the population?  Where is the government seizure of corporate property? Where are the blasphemy laws?  Where are the opposition leaders being thrown in jail?  Where are the media outlets being seized by the government?  Where is the government endorsement of leader worship?  Where do the leaders blame their failings on the joos?

Oh yeah, those are what made Germany fascist in the 30s, and those are what is going on in present day Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, Zimbabwe, Russia...  but not America.  Funny.

Posted by: wooga at April 25, 2007 03:28 AM (2YapR)

20 John, your Canada is more fascist than the USA, what with your outlawing certain religious speech, outlawing freedom of contract for healthcare, outlawing the bearing of arms, and rampant sodomy. 

Posted by: wooga at April 25, 2007 03:32 AM (2YapR)

21 Basically, what you guys have going on down there is what I would call "fascist lite"

Basically, what you are doing is "thinking lite".

Posted by: Randman at April 25, 2007 09:26 AM (Sal3J)

22 John, you're pure slime--a screwball left wing kook, worse than Jack Layton (coward), and Stephane Dion (a dual-citizenship moron and wimp).  You are a moral idiot--and a very dangerous person in a world where terrorism is real, and the enemy plain...but you can't see it because you are a first-class moral idiot.

Again, go **** yourself!

Posted by: Richard Romano at April 25, 2007 09:35 AM (iD1fP)

23 I find it funny that so many people allied with or on the left have no sense of irony.
 
Protesters, in broad daylight in front of the sniper-guarded White House, call bush a fascist and Hitler without the slightest worry that they may die in a prison camp. George Soros writes an article seen around the world that is highly critical of Israel, saying that the Jews have stifled criticism of Israel. The press writes frequent articles in globally read newspapers saying that the press is under Bushitler's thumb. Muslims hold frequent speaking arrangements in highly visible public venues to say that there is a conspiracy by the omnipotent Jews and the government to suppress Muslim freedoms. People in all branches of government from Congress to the CIA to Education to State to Justice to Defense publicly screech that they've been "silenced", claiming in public without even a remote fear of being arrested that we live in a police state.
 
Is it just me, or are the people complaining about their speech being suppressed always the ones bitching the loudest?

Posted by: Lehosh at April 25, 2007 10:01 AM (BXpVN)

24 But Lehosh. Your using logic for liberals. Logic just doesn't  jive with emotions.

Posted by: Randman at April 25, 2007 10:09 AM (Sal3J)

25

Lehosh, Right On!  but it won't make any sense to the left, because they are incapable of true critical thinking. 
And about John and 'fascism lite'.  As a comic book collector, I learned that Canada has some mean censorship laws. It affects which magazines we can export across the border to the north. I eventually learned this extends to which video tapes, or DVD's can go up there.


OR what gets imported from Japan! Anime gets 'edited' for the Canadian market! These laws have been used to prosecute, and convict Canadian citizens, such as one experimental film maker, on "obscenity" charges that pretty much ruined his life. He had some digital special effects, simulated violence, and partial nudity!


Big Whoop!


Down here you can find the real stuff, not that I'm saying it's good ... but it IS more free!  I mean jeepers! If Ragnar puts up a beheading vid, on his blog, he is already pushing the limits well past where this other guy went! Nudity, and violence that IS REAL!


And don't we all love how the 'fascist' Canadian health care system lets people go without important treatment if they exceed some arbitrary quota for a type of surgery?  Well it happens y'know?


ANYWAY, I LIKE CANADA ......... I'M JUST PICKING ON JOHN ..... OK?  No system of government is perfect.  But everything would seem a little more perfect if an asteroid fell out of the sky directly on John's head! It wouldn't kill him though ...


USA, all the way!


Posted by: Michael Weaver at April 25, 2007 10:42 AM (2OHpj)

26 Oh good grief.

You guys are such braindead zombies that you can't see that most "liberals" agree that radical Islam is dangerous, but we disagree on how to handle it.

Seeing as how everything Bush has done to date has only made things worse, you have demonstrated how out of touch with reality you are.

Ah well... no surprise there. Most of you guys probably still think that Zeus... sorry I should have said "God" created the world in six days.

Just because you believe something doesn't mean it's true.

Speaking of which... have you guys seen any of the stuff on how your goverment totally lied about Pat Tillman's death so that it could use him as a propaganda tool?

Posted by: John at April 25, 2007 10:49 AM (S3Rzh)

27 Just because you believe something doesn't mean it's true.

Hey, John had a moment of clarity!  So, will you admit that you were wrong about America being more fascist than, say, Canada?

Posted by: wooga at April 25, 2007 11:37 AM (t9sT5)

28 Fine, John, what you said is the unvarnished gospel. Bush is fascist and everyone who says otherwise is just bespelled by the dark sorcerer Karl "Cthulhu" Rove. Sit down Hitler, Boosh is here to show you how its done.
 
How could we not see it? I'm sure, when screaming at the top of their lungs, all those senators, congressmen, bureaucrats, CIA agents, veterans, staff, journalists, teachers, college professors, scientists, soldiers, actors, producers, mayors, governors, students, protesters, activists, house wives, hippies, and civil rights leaders are just petrified with mortal terror that at any moment during their openly public, widely reported, globally televised, and broadly unimpeded rallys, statements, lectures, press conferences, and advertisements, that the Bushiburton Gestapo will take them off to the gas chamber.
 
What brave, brave people they are.

Posted by: Lehosh at April 25, 2007 11:50 AM (BXpVN)

29 Joseph Wilson and Valerie Plame were executed.  You just didn't hear about it because Bush controls the Press.  Duh!

Posted by: Doug Purdie at April 25, 2007 05:53 PM (00DOn)

30 John,

Given temporal distrotion as explained by relativity, it's quite possible the earth, and even the entire universe was created in 6 days.  It just depends on how close to a gravity well you happen to be when you start and finish your time measurment (farther from gravity means time passes faster).

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