April 24, 2007
I am very perturbed by the fact that the current anti-Operation Iraqi Freedom battle cry is that the United States does not need to be in Iraq and, more recently, that the military has failed in Iraq or that the military can no longer sustain this operation. I find the latter statement to be a complete falsehood. The US Armed Forces contained the reach of the Soviets for many years only giving up ground where it did not make sense to fight or because of actions like this current Congress is trying to take (de-funding the war). Did the US military need to go in to Bosnia and help stop genocide? The short answer is, no. The long answer is yes, because, those people were deprived of their liberty. The Iraqi people for years were deprived of their liberty. We liberated Kuwait when Saddam Hussein deprived Kuwaitis of their liberty. A by-product of liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein is violence from terrorists. This violence must be stopped, contained, or destroyed before a withdrawal from Iraq can be considered.
I completely understand that the reason the US gave to the world was that Saddam Hussein was a madman with weapons of mass destruction. We definitely had 50% of that justification for war pegged. However, the hoards of WMDs have not turned up, yet. There have been batches of this and that chemical or biological agent found but the intelligence failure pre-OIF is now a widely accepted conclusion. However, WMDs are not the reason we are still in Iraq today.
Nevertheless, there are essentially two sides to this debate; those that want us out of Iraq and those that want us to stay in Iraq. Those that want us out have a myriad of reasons which I am sure most of us have heard. Being in the military, I have been told face-to-face every "reason" to pull out of Iraq. Those reasons vary from pacifistic-type reasons to down right hatred of anything that President Bush proposes. Some people have decent justifications for withdrawal but no one has truly stepped out of the crowd and given me a justifiable reason.
To be honest, I have one reason to stay in Iraq. It is something that I have found that the vast majority of Conservatives believe in and the exact opposite is something I have noticed from those on the left. That reason is simple; hope. Yes, hope. It is a simple fact that the US military came in and overthrew Saddam Hussein. However, the underlying want, what most people who share my opinion are yearning for boils down to hope.
My short term hope is that my comrades who have fallen in Iraq did not die in vain. My long term hope is that Iraq can be a prosperous, free nation in the Middle East. My distant hope is for an Iraq that becomes a model for other nations in that region. A CEOs hope might be for an emerging market in cell phones, construction, and other various kinds of infrastructure that could be gleaned from Operation Iraqi Freedom. An Iraqi mother hopes for a neighborhood safe enough to let her child roam free in and a nation strong enough to provide many opportunities to her child. An Iraqi father hopes that his family will not be threatened by the terrorists that roam his streets currently and that US-led coalition forces are struggling so hard to remove from that father's streets.
Why is it time to pull out of Iraq? The real answer is that now is definitely not the time to abandon the Iraqi people and our mission in Iraq. There is so much to hope for and it is so incredibly close. The successes in the demolition of terrorist networks in Iraq can not be measured by someone who does not see reports of that on a daily basis. When you mirror those successes against the US casualty reports it pains you but you can still see success. I can not definitively measure those successes for I am not reading such reports on a daily basis (weekly would be more like it). Hope breeds success and success breeds will and will breeds hope. What I am seeing today is a lack of hope for the future from those that want the United States out of Iraq. It pains me to see people give up all hope.
Originally Written for Conservative Thinking
Posted by: Chris Short at
05:22 AM
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Posted by: greyrooster at April 24, 2007 06:44 AM (Ri8KN)
Posted by: TBinSTL at April 24, 2007 07:22 AM (MSiPb)
I think this question should be at the top of the list. As to what Chris Short suggests is our "honor" I would ask him to direct his attention to those who we Americans elected to serve within our government. As he suggests, our troops are in fact being undermined: Would you suspect our future youth to "volunteer" to join our military given this mess?
Why has our government chosen to fight a war in this manner? Why have so many Americans chosen to step back from supporting this war in Iraq? Why do so many Americans look to the Muslim peoples and see a bunch of beheading, spiritual clowns bent on destroying our way of life to replace it with one of super rigidity and male dominated control?
How did so many emasculated men come to political power in our government? Example: Harry Reid and Barak Obama.
Further: The reluctant warrior: where is Colin Powell? Here is one man who this world of nations know when he says he intends to fight to win, he means it. We know why he is beneath the radar: when given the information on WMDs he went forward and got his face smeared with the crap he was fed...so he left that team and went home. Do you know of anybody in our country who other nations would really listen to? Balls...Brains...Leadership...see anybody out there who really has all this and has some history in showing such use where we, as Americans could and would support such a person?
Rules of Engagement. Here is where we lost this war, and here is where we continue to shoot ourselves in the back. Who are these assholes who created these defeatist ROEs? Out attention belongs in finding them. If for no other reason, 3000 plus dead American citizens, 3000 plus dead American soldiers, 5000 plus injured American soldiers...should I go on? I wanted to win, but every chance seems to have a hidden counterpart within our government that diverts such energies away from a victory toward a defeat. Why is all I ask?
Posted by: RJ at April 24, 2007 07:44 AM (yyxO/)
that Saddam Hussein was a madman with weapons of mass destruction. We
definitely had 50% of that justification for war pegged. However, the
hoards of WMDs have not turned up, yet. There have been batches of this
and that chemical or biological agent found but the intelligence
failure pre-OIF is now a widely accepted conclusion."
It's like this: Iraq and Syria are two drug dealers on the block, whose buildings directly abut one another with an internal door connecting them. Undercover police and local witnesses have observed people staggering out of both in apparently drugged states, users have been apprehended and confessed, and corpses have been found in the dumpsters of their back lots who autopsies show to have died from massive drug overdoses.
The police request permission from the DA to raid both. The DA decides Syria is off limits, and gives the green light for Iraq only after announcing the raid several weeks in advance via press conference.
The raid goes down, lots of drug paraphernalia is recovered - but no drugs.
Cue in Greek tragedy play wherein everyone in the press and state senate wail, stamp, gnash their teeth and otherwise disparage the police for ever thinking they would find drugs in dealer Iraq's house, and even sarcastically ask "So where are the drugs you jackbooted thugs?? Did they just disappear???"
This is the disingenuous farce that happened in 2003, and the thing that blows my mind is that everyone is still playing along.
Posted by: Scott at April 24, 2007 07:45 AM (FAHM2)
Posted by: RJ at April 24, 2007 08:03 AM (yyxO/)
Let's talk about the people of Iraq, shall we? The most recent poll (D3) shows much less optimism about the future than 2004 or 2005: 32% of Iraqis polled
expected that in a year's time things would be somewhat worse or much
worse (compared to 12% in 2005 and 6% in 2004); 35% expected that in a year's time things
would be much or somewhat better, compared to 64% in 2005 and 71% in
2004.
So basically your strategy of holding on in there seems to be crushing the hopes of the Iraqi people. At the end of your touching plea, you say that it "pains" you to see people give up all hope. I'm sorry that you feel so much pain, but you'd probably feel a lot worse if you actually had to live there and watch your country going down the toilet every single day.
The real question is, whose hopes are more important - your hope that "my comrades who have fallen in Iraq did not die in vain", or the hopes of the Iraqi families you claim to care oh-so-much about?
Posted by: merkur at April 24, 2007 08:17 AM (vgIQh)
Posted by: RJ at April 24, 2007 08:31 AM (yyxO/)
Chris, I assure you the sacrifice of your comrades is known to God and to those of us who have suffered directly or indirectly at the hands of Islamo-fascists; and is therefore never in vain.
"...My long term hope is that Iraq can be a prosperous, free nation in the Middle East.."
This is precisely what the Mullahcracy of Iran and the thugocracy of Syrian can not tolerate. A free country right at their doorsteps?! Are you kidding?! This exactly why they don't spare any effort to stoke the fire of terrorism in Iraq knowing full well that ordinary Iraqi's pay the heaviest price. Put another way, I believe for each terrorist attack in Iraq the coalition (including free Iraqi's of course) should attack a few military installations and/or terrorist training camps in Syria and Iran. Believe me, I don't say this lightly, I'm Iranian myself.
Posted by: Garduneh Mehr at April 24, 2007 08:51 AM (j97MF)
Wow! Is that the only variable. Thanks for the simple view.
if you actually had to live there and watch your country going down the toilet every single day.
Yes yes...it was utopia on earth before. Just forget the torture chambers (places where they did not put underwear on your head but instead put you feet first in wood chippers). Forget the children's prison or the entire cities wiped out by nerve gas. Forget that most of the country was without electricity, fresh water or good schools and hospitals. Forget that Saddam spent the wealth of the nation on palaces and weapons. It was just perfect before.
Posted by: Randman at April 24, 2007 08:58 AM (Sal3J)
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention.
Posted by: David M at April 24, 2007 09:06 AM (kNjJk)
This only makes it all the more tragic that year-on-year, US policy has progressively alienated those people, to the point where 50% of them now believe that things are worse than they were immediately before the war (Q7 of the same poll).
And no, the "let's hang in there" policy isn't the only variable, except in the column to which I was responding. If you were hoping for a more nuanced view, I suggest you go to a blog where the only factor isn't a fantasyland approach to international politics.
Posted by: merkur at April 24, 2007 10:20 AM (xs87s)
Just like they are getting away with every meme that started in 2001-War for Oil, Bush Lied, Selected not Elected etc., ad infinitum.
All of those quotes from Dems supporting Operations Desert Fox'Iraqi Freedom and UN Weapons Inspections are down the memory hole as far as the MSM is concerned.
Posted by: CozMark at April 24, 2007 10:31 AM (8Wwo1)
Posted by: CozMark at April 24, 2007 10:37 AM (8Wwo1)
Posted by: CozMark at April 24, 2007 10:44 AM (8Wwo1)
Or better yet how about you pull your head out of your ass and quit pretending that America is making the situation over there worse. If you had one single clue about what is happening in Iraq you would probably drown yourself for being such a complete fool.
What is happening in Iraq is that a cult of death is attempting force its sick and perverted religion on a country that doesn’t want it. The fanatical extremist Muslims from all over the Middle East have converged on Iraq in an attempt to prevent the Iraqi people from governing themselves without Iraq becoming another Islamic theocracy.
The people of Iraq do not want to become a Islamic theocracy, they want to be a representative democracy, but the governments of other middle eastern nations which are either totalitarian regimes or Islamic theocracies cannot tolerate a threat like that because it would spell their own demises.
Hence the involvement of Iran, Syria and a host of other fundamentalists from nations like Saudi Arabia and Yemen.
http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=16834
Posted by: doriangrey at April 24, 2007 10:44 AM (XvkRd)
Sorry for the sweeping use of "everyone"; my <i>gut</i> tells me others feel the same way about the WMD charade, but it's been 3 years now and in all that time the most likely answer to the WMD question hasn't really been put out there, at least not in any strong or persistent manner and so instead it remains the elephant in the room that remains studiously unacknowledged.
I know it can't all be due to MSM blackout; the Swiftboaters were able to beat that racket albeit with a lot of difficulty, and so I know that it can be done.
But instead the whole issue is allowed, on the big stage at least, to rest purely on the intentionally short sighted and simplistic question of "did we find WMD in Iraq?"
Why is that? This one nonsequitur has been allowed to seriously hinder the efforts in Iraq by diverting attention from the actual issues and giving the left a talking point, however idiotic.
Posted by: Scott at April 24, 2007 11:21 AM (FAHM2)
Weapons of Mass Destruction: Scott, let me try to answer this for you. By example: You and I go to a car lot looking to buy a car. The salesman points out to us the features of a car that caught our attention. As we talk about it, this salesman notes one feature that has our attention: big engine. He then goes on to highlite this feature, sublimating all the others. My point; this is what happened to the WMD feature. We were given a host of reasons to go into Iraq, one of them being the WMD suspicion. That hit a nerve with our society and the media, yes the media, ran with it due to the natural fact it brought viewers to every station that boosted up its volume on WMD potentials. Ergo, the big elephant that still is in the room is there because most forgot how this "sales job" was played. Our government allowed the WMD sales pitch to go forward while they worked on other isssues, not realizing the trap if none we openly found. Of course, this does not, in my opinion, forgive our government's choices since then in fighting this war...with both hands tied behind our backs. I hold the Congress and the Administration responsible for this fiasco. I am going to vote for new blood next time around.
Posted by: RJ at April 24, 2007 11:37 AM (yyxO/)
"Or better yet how about you pull your head out of your ass and quit pretending that America is making the situation over there worse. If you had one single clue about what is happening in Iraq you would probably drown yourself for being such a complete fool."
There's nothing better than abuse to win your argument, but you should probably direct your abuse at the Iraqis.
Back to that opinion poll - when asked "do you think the presence of US forces in Iraq is making security in our country better, worse, or having no effect on the security situation?" a whole 69% of them replied Worse. When asked which countries were playing a positive or negative role in Iraq, 77% of them replied that the US was playing a negative role.
Now I realise that opinion polls are not 100% accurate, but according to your logic all those Iraqis - you know, the ones that actually live in Iraq? - clearly don't have a clue what's happening in Iraq, and they should probably drown themselves for being such complete fools.
Your understanding of what Iraqis actually want is as limited as your compassion for them. The good news is that they don't want US forces to leave - only 35% believe we should leave now. However that seems to be based on their lack of trust in their own government, military and police, rather than on any particular love of being occupied.
"What is happening in Iraq is that a cult of death is attempting force its sick and perverted religion on a country that doesn’t want it. The fanatical extremist Muslims from all over the Middle East have converged on Iraq in an attempt to prevent the Iraqi people from governing themselves without Iraq becoming another Islamic theocracy."
You'll find no argument from me there. Unfortunately those extremists have generally arrived since the invasion of Iraq, and the coalition has substantially failed to prevent them from entering or operating within the country. In addition a significant proportion of the insurgents are not Islamic militants but local Iraqis operating in a security vacuum.
"The people of Iraq do not want to become a Islamic theocracy, they want to be a representative democracy, but the governments of other middle eastern nations which are either totalitarian regimes or Islamic theocracies cannot tolerate a threat like that because it would spell their own demises."
You're absolutely right - the majority of Iraqis do want a democracy. Presumably that's why the US government supports an Iraqi Council of Representatives in which the largest party is the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI). SCIRI was originally based in Tehran, retains clear links with the government there and is alleged to receive funds, weapons and other resources from within the Iranian government; it also has an explicit agenda that says government should be under the control of Islamic scholars, which might sound familiar to you.
So if that bothers you so much, then I suggest you hurl abuse at the administration that not only took us into Iraq, but failed singularly to secure it and now tolerates the very things that you despise so much. The real kicker for you must be that SCIRI was voted into power by - guess who? - the people of Iraq, in their democratic elections.
Good luck with reconciling your first attempts at political analysis with the real world, dorian.
Posted by: merkur at April 24, 2007 12:07 PM (xs87s)
The words of Mahmoud amadhijinad rings across the land, "Look at yourselves, look at A merica you have legislated your selves so that you cannot defend yourselves"
Wake up folks, America will be Islamic and our laws and our elected Officials both Democrats and republicans will help them and prevent the un willing from stopping it.
After all the ones in power now will still be in power even should they have to become Islamified.
Win the war in Iraq and lose the war for freedom back home.
The questions we all must ask ourselves now is,
1. should I die for not submitting?
2. should I pay the Jizyah tax?
3. should I submit to Islam since my government is not going to stop Islam from taking over.
Posted by: Barry at April 24, 2007 12:17 PM (cl1Cf)
our schools teach anti military meme and we take it, teach anti christian Meme and we take it. Islam can and is taught in our higher colleges in order that our next generation will have a good impression of the winners religion.
now certain souls are stripping medals from the heroes Tillman and Lynch and even the Global war on terror medals have had their war renamed making them a medal for which a war did not exist.
No, I would not advise any kids this day to serve and fight because they will only be used to fight a holding action before we become DAR Al Islam.
They will be in the words of Mcain and kerry Wasted.
Posted by: Barry at April 24, 2007 12:27 PM (cl1Cf)
Last year in Europe there were about 500 incidents of terrorism occuring in 11 countries. Only one of those was connected to Islamists.
http://www.blink.org.uk/pdescription.asp?key=14646&grp=30&cat=138
Posted by: John Ryan at April 24, 2007 01:43 PM (TcoRJ)
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