1 Violence against students will not be effective. From a moral standpoint they are mostly just brainwashed children anyway.

I've been inside a politicized classroom a semester or two myself. Students trust what they are told because it comes from a teacher, and it creates an emotion. Reason is unemotive.

Any action taken should cause the University system a financial loss. I will neither recommend or endorse vandalism, because we all know that is illegal, and conspiracy is a crime.

Some kind of discrimination suit might be useful. Lobbying with politicians to cut funds for biased colleges sounds good as well.

I suppose theoretically it will come to pass that property belonging to faculty, or the university itself will get damaged. Especially if these uncontrolled student outbeaks continue. When this sort of crap starts to cost money, it will be stopped. It would be tragic wouldn't it?

I can't imagine sending any kid of mine to a modern university. But ...

What about trying to start a rival university system? That's a lot of money, but there are a lot of rich people who would like something to put their names on, and especially if its good for their taxes.

USA all the way!

2 We must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig. Cow after cow. Village after village. Army after army. - Colonel Kurtz

3 Why is my post first, when I showed up late?

USA all the way!

4 Its time to cut off all funding to these universities that continue to discriminate against conservatives and make those little snots get off their fat lazy butts and get a job

5 Sandpiper - That's a great idea.  Any ideas how to make that happen?

6 Stalinism lives.

7 Colonel Kurtz

It's funny how Liberals will cite claptrap made in Hollywood as if it's some kind of authoritive source.  Newflash-- most of the crap about Vietnam that comes out of liberal Hollywood never happenned.  It's Leftwing propaganda.

8 The kids are being bad again !!
The lefty proffessors are brainwashing them !
It's that rap music: make it stop !!
Trying to make universities conservative would be like.... trying to make the armed forces liberal.
So yeah.... cede it

9
Trying to make universities conservative would be like.... trying to make the armed forces liberal.

Nah.  Conservatives send more of their kids to college than Liberals do (it takes us years to repair the damage).  Yet the same cannot be said of Liberals sending their kids to the military.  So why should we cede it.

10 Michael -

First, I don't know why your post showed up first.  I just you're just cooler than the rest of us.

Second, I agree with you that violence would be counterproductive.  But what about a peaceful sit-in at a university speech by a virulently anti-semitic jihadi?  Would that be counterproductive?

As to "vandalism," I'm opposed on principle to the destruction and  permanent defacement of property.  That said, I've seen university administrators denounce the posting of fliers and banners in "unauthorized places" as "vendalism."  That's just stupid and silly, and it waters down the meaning of the word.  SMASHING a window is one thing.  TAPING an "unauthorized" FLIER to a window is a completely different thing.  Only one of these can reasonably be called "vandalism" as that word is normally used. 

11 "I'm sure the jihadis would dearly love to have a photo of a white male college Republican punching an Arab kid."
Where do I sign up?

12 And yet this is otay!

13 You poor little victims! Those big, bad, mean, liberals, are picking on you again! It is amazing what ridiculous sissies the radical right-wingers are!

You peed -- and worse -- your diapers when your Boy George uttered the word "terror". Now, you are incontinent at best when confronted with how wrong you were to believe the Boy King.

America finally decided to take out the trash on November 7, 2006. Suck it up! You are now officially the minority that is against democracy and the ideals that made this country great. You are traitors to democratic principles and to the very foundations of this great country that is the U.S.A.

Get that? YOU are the traitors. YOU are anti-American. YOU are the ones who are disdaining, defacing, and humiliating, our troops. You are directly responsible for the thousands of men and women who are coming back from your lovely war of choice minus a few limbs, and/or horrible burns on their bodies, and/or PTSD syndrom.

Meanwhile, you pathetic slimebags, are watching television, and cheering on the carnage. None of you, miserable scumbags, would have the nerve to get within a mile of a recruiting office.

14 Sounds like DA has PMS again. Wipe the spittle from your chin terrorist lover.

15 Can you feel the love???

I knew you could...

The Devil's hiring criteria for Advocates have clearly taken a nose-dive.  I tell ya, the old man's losing it...

So, was there an actual POINT you wanted to make, "Advocate," or did you just misplace your meds again?

16 Ragnar.

Peaceful sit in ...
Check, I could go for that.

I cannot endorse real vandalism either.

Ever read 'the Poor Man's James Bond' or 'The Anarchists Cookbook'? I think they were banned a few years ago. I think that sort of information is still available in campus culture.

Giving up the universities is like giving up Iraq to terrorists. We need to find a winning tactic.

As long as peaceful methods will work, I support them. My community leans to the right (even if Tester won) so it may be easier to reach out here.

17
Get that? YOU are the traitors. YOU are anti-American.

ROFLMAO!  

It irks you Libs to no end when we call you anti-American because in your hearts you know it's true.   It's called touching a nerve. 

18 I think that you are getting a little confused.

College students aren't becoming more anti-American, but are becoming more anti-conservative, which IS pro-American.

When no one wants to hear your message, take it somewhere where they will listen.

Even President Moron knows better than that.

"Stalinism lives.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos "

...and is being directed from the White House.

"Trying to make universities conservative would be like.... trying to make the armed forces liberal.

Nah. Conservatives send more of their kids to college than Liberals do (it takes us years to repair the damage). Yet the same cannot be said of Liberals sending their kids to the military. So why should we cede it.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos "

Conservatives should be sending their kids to conservative colleges, where they can learn their parents' conservative values like how to hate America and Americans and how to manipulate the system for their own personal gain, and fuck every body else.

Then they wouldn't have to undo all of that liberal brainwashing.

"That said, I've seen university administrators denounce the posting of fliers and banners in "unauthorized places" as "vendalism." That's just stupid and silly, and it waters down the meaning of the word. SMASHING a window is one thing. TAPING an "unauthorized" FLIER to a window is a completely different thing. Only one of these can reasonably be called "vandalism" as that word is normally used.
Posted by: The All-Seeing Pirate Ragnar at November 21, 2006 05:40 PM"

Glad you feel that way.

We can all come to your house an post fliers and banners, all over the outside of your house and yard.

After all, no one has the right to be able to set any rules for what any other person do on private property.

That would be just "stupid and silly", wouldn't it?

"Sounds like DA has PMS again. Wipe the spittle from your chin terrorist lover.
Posted by: Randman "

Thanks for the, predictable sour grapes. You never disappoint.

Remember that President Moron likes terrorists, even more than the rest of you conservatives.

If he doesn't love them, then why did he create so many of them?

"So, was there an actual POINT you wanted to make, "Advocate," or did you just misplace your meds again?
Posted by: The All-Seeing Pirate Ragnar "

Damn! Blind Pirate. You missed the point, again?

No wonder you lost the election.

You just don't get it, do you?

"Giving up the universities is like giving up Iraq to terrorists. We need to find a winning tactic.

As long as peaceful methods will work, I support them. My community leans to the right (even if Tester won) so it may be easier to reach out here.
Posted by: Michael Weaver "

Just get President Moron to declare that all liberal college students are "enemy combatants" and replace them with conservatives.

It can be done, in the country we are becoming under Republican rule.

Fortunately, the Republican rein of terror is coming to an end, in January.

19 "Ever read 'the Poor Man's James Bond' or 'The Anarchists Cookbook'? I think they were banned a few years ago.
Posted by: Michael Weaver"

You conservatives really do dream of a Stalinist country don't you, where books can be banned?

You will also have to cancel the bookburning bonfire, as the Democrats begin to return control of America to the American people.

FYI -

From Amazon books -
The Anarchist Cookbook (Paperback)
by William Powell
Price: $19.77

Or did you mean

Recipes for Disaster: An Anarchist Cookbook (Paperback)
by Crimethinc
Price: $10.17

also available from Amazon books -

The Poor Man's James Bond (#C-065) (Paperback)
by Kurt Saxon
Price: $39.95

The books that you are most likely to see "banned" would be those that are critical of conservatism, such as -

"Dead Right : The End of the Conservativism of Hope and the Rise of the Conservativism of Fear (Paperback)
by David Frum (Author)

Availability: THIS TITLE IS CURRENTLY NOT AVAILABLE.

20 PuddleDuck,


These people are not conservative. In fact, there are very few real conservatives left in the GOP. You know, the ones who believe in fiscal responsibility and no governmental intrusion into people's lives? The current crop of Republicans -- and their supporters -- are authoritarians.

This crowd is radically right-wing. They want dictatorship. They have no clue what democracy means. They were whining before the elections, but now that the party of President Cretin and Vice President Psycho has lost, they are even more paranoid.

21 Puddleduck: Perhaps it is unavailable since no one wants to publish it or the limited printing is out of stock or even better to your delight it is sold out!  Please research on how books are published it is quite interesting and yes I am being nice.

22 Piddle,

Huckleberry Finn -- banned by Liberals for "racial insensitivity."  

23 I notice you don't mention ingraham and malkins little camp follower who was sending out white powder to perceived spokespeople of the left thru the mail...isn't that cute and fun since it is done on by your ilk!

Also you don't back up any of your claims...not a single fact or citation just "poor me...white men are being oppressed"

24 I've just started reading this blog and have added it to my favorites.
 
It's too bad that the comments section is ruined by a few venom spraying, bouncing-off-the-walls liberals. Why don't conservative blogs ban more people the way liberal blogs do?

25 Devil's Advocate,

I'm not sure what you're trying to do here... but that much truth told to the uninitiated just looks like crazy-talk. I'm actually on your side and agree with some of what you said... but I'm a liberal, and I understand the underpinnings of what you are saying. Most here do not.

You need to try to adjust their eyes before shining that much light into them.

Also, the nastiness does you no good. Just calling people sissies and cowards, etc... does not help. They have legitimate dissagreements that don't have to be reduced to cowardice (though probably are due to a fundamental lack of understanding regarding the principles of modern western elightenment, IMHO).

26 Conservative minds seem incapable of holding two dissimilar thoughts at the same time.

Being critical of aspects of American policy past and present is not necessarily Anti-American.

There is no black and white, only shades of gray.

It should not be US against the world. The world is one large community. Whatever you do to the least of my brothers (or sisters) that you do unto me.

Until you internalize these truths you will continue to be a Republican.

27 Adolfo,
Yes, liberals are routinely insulted, called liars, and ultimately banned from many right wing blogs. It is to this one's credit that it allows comments at all (most of the big conservative blogs, malkin, et al allow no comments at all.

As for banned books, I think you'll find more copies of the anarchist cookbook in skinhead and survivalist club houses than college campuses.
There actually are several strictly conservative colleges about (doing the college search thing as we speak with son who is a senior). You will find, they have a definite religious/evangelical posture so I hope that's OK with you. I mean god is with us after all, says so right on the belt buckle. (Obscure reference, sorry, but it seemed to fit with the theme of the posters who wish to take over American higher education).

If you want colleges to toe the party line, you really are talking about Stalinism in its finest hour. Google "lysenkoism" to learn more about why diversity and independant thought in education is a good thing.

28 We ceded the campus thirty years ago.

29
There is no black and white, only shades of gray.

You mean everything is essentially one color and the same (equivalent).

Makes "black and white" seem downright nuanced.

30 MuddledDuck sez:

"We can all come to your house an post fliers and banners, all over the outside of your house and yard.

After all, no one has the right to be able to set any rules for what any other person do on private property."

Dude, no one even needs to go to law school to know what a stupid argument that is.

Then again, lefties have always had a problem understanding the distinction between "public" and "private."

I don't throw epithets around much, PuddleDuck, but you're an unmitigated idiot.


"Fortunately, the Republican rein of terror is coming to an end, in January."

See point above (and go buy a dictionary, while you're at it.)


"The books that you are most likely to see "banned" would be those that are critical of conservatism, such as -

"Dead Right : The End of the Conservativism of Hope and the Rise of the Conservativism of Fear (Paperback)
by David Frum (Author)"

Did I mention you're an unmitigated idiot?  Do you even know why citing a 1995 book by David Frum to support your point is stupid?  No, you don't--and that's just further evidence of you being an unmitigated idiot.


Devil's Assmonkey Sez:

These people are not conservative. In fact, there are very few real conservatives left in the GOP. You know, the ones who believe in fiscal responsibility and no governmental intrusion into people's lives? The current crop of Republicans -- and their supporters -- are authoritarians.

This crowd is radically right-wing. They want dictatorship. They have no clue what democracy means. They were whining before the elections, but now that the party of President Cretin and Vice President Psycho has lost, they are even more paranoid.

Nothing like painting entire groups of people with a broad brush, DA.  Is that how you do your thinking?  Have you actually READ any of my posts, for example?  Clearly, you haven't if you think I even come close to fitting that stereotype.  I don't know any writer here who fits that stereotype.  Rusty (the Boss) is a libertarian.  Next time, do at least a little research before you run your fingers.


madmatt:
 
I notice you don't mention ingraham and malkins little camp follower who was sending out white powder to perceived spokespeople of the left thru the mail...isn't that cute and fun since it is done on by your ilk!

Our ilk?  How do you figure?  Every conservative I've heard mention it would like nothing better than to lock that nutjob up and throw away the key.

If he'd been spewing lefty BS, he'd have gotten an award and full-time representation by Ramsey Clark.

 
Also you don't back up any of your claims...not a single fact or citation just "poor me...white men are being oppressed"

Nice strawman, but I never claimed it was "white men" being oppressed.  I stated that an entire class of viewpoints was being suppressed on the college campus.  That should concern people of all ideological backgrounds. But, I suppose as long as the lefties get to speak, they don't care about anyone else's rights.  At least you're honest about it, I suppose.

31 It's funny really. I read every word you wrote. But everywhere you used one of your descriptions of the right-wing, I replaced it with something like "fascists" or "authoritarians", or even "corrupt Republican criminals and traitors". And everywhere you used a pejorative to describe the left-wing, I replaced that with something like, "thinking voters" or oppressed taxpayers", or even "hardworking Americans who need a paycheck to survive day to day".

And, when I did that, the result was an excellent description of the Bush Administration - a coterie of spoiled brats, anti-intellectual thugs, corporate criminals and war profiteers - and their assault to destroy the Constitution of this Great Republic.

32 The point of a liberal arts education (I'm pretty sure most of these so-called "conservative" kids aren't getting a PhD at a state college) is to expose kids to viewpoints different from what they've experienced at home and at high school. It's not the liberals' fault if the logically impaired thinking of what passes for conservative thought these days is easily replaced by a liberal ideology based on what a professor says. That's like a cultist complaining that their kid doesn't want to be a part of cult anymore because they talked to a skater punk at the local 7-11!

Additionally, I'm not sure of where you went to college, but at the many colleges I've attended, very rarely are professors put up on such pedestals - there are even lists of "whose classes to avoid" (usually circulated by upperclassmen) due to idiocy, bad grading formats, horrible lecturing styles, etc.

33 I see the usual liberal circle-jerkers are out in force today. Guess Olbermann gave them their marching orders.

Speech codes, supression of opposing viewpoints are just a couple of the usual liberal methods to squelch dissent on college campuses. Heaven forbid students be presented with opposing viewpoints and allowed to make up their own minds.

For a group of people who supposedly champion "freedom" and consider themselves "intelligent," they certainly come across, as one poster so eloquently put it, as unmitigated idiots. I'd go further than that, however. They're intellectual fascists who can't handle a world in which not everyone thinks exactly the way they do. Intelligent? Hardly. Idiotic pansies is much more fitting.

34 Well, spurious examples of bias against conservatives notwithstanding (like anonymous swastikas and anti-Semitic scrawls on bathroom walls ) I think the answer to your question "Shall we cede the campus?" has already been answered. You ceded it when you considered violence as an answer to rhetoric. You ceded the campus when people like poster Todd became the voice of the Conservative movement. Everyone who disagrees with him is an "idiot" or "intellectual fascist" or, better yet, a "pansie". When the only tool you have is name calling I think pretty much you throw logic to the the wind and cede the argument by default.

If you want to name-call you have Fox News or Limbaugh or LGF or the Wall Street Journal or Malkin or Powerline or any manner of endless right-wing outlets (like this blog) that dominate our media and attempt to suppress dissent by shouting and screaming or threating violence. It's their job and function.

However if you want to express you ideas in a civilized and orderly manner politely and with respect for alternative points of view that is what University is for.

If you otherwise, well I have no sympathy for you and your ideas are naturally suspect as a result.

35 Whatever, joe. If you think I'm the "voice" of the conservative movement, well, you just showed your own ignorance. Conservatives, by and large, are just as bad as liberals. However, the topic at hand is college campuses and any logical thinking person can see the bias present. Liberals LOVE to toss around the word fascist at any and every opportunity, all the while ignoring their own "fascist" tendencies, particularly when it comes to the freedom of expression on college campuses.

It's people like you, joe, who stereotype others without knowing the facts, that are a big problem in this country today. You speak of "politely expressing your viewpoints in a calm and civilized manner," yet the topic at hand deals with the lack of this at our nation's universities. Yet, you claim that's what a university is for. Do you not see the contradiction in what you just said? Perhaps you need to educate yourself a bitter better in the art of logical reasoning.

Anyone who silences others with an opposing view is a coward, plain and simple. THAT'S exactly what is happening at these supposed institues of higher learning. Institutes of higher brainwashing might be a more appropriate title.

And I notice how you conveniently left out the hate-filled rhetoric coming out from the left. Ever read the KosKids or DU? Heck, just check out the ever-present troll DA. Or perhaps words like "scumbag" and "slimeball" are part of your everyday vocabulary.

I think you just spoke VOLUMES with this ommision. Nice try.

36 hey ragnar...no I must of missed all the proclamations of innocence from the right wing...maybe cause malkin posts personal info about people she disagrees with and suggest people "pay them a visit" how very mafia-esque....show me a mainstream left wing blog that is suggesting similar?

37 You people are all idiots.

Pym Fortuyn showed the left in the Netherlands why Islam is wrong. He turnned the Dutch left against Islam by honestly explaining the problem & honestly offering to help their Islamic immigrants become Dutch. But he also explained that, for integration to work, additional immigration must stop.

Today the Netherlands has some of the most restrictive immigration rules in all of Europe. Why? Because the left there knows that additional immigration isn't good for the integration of the immigrants they already have.

Same could happen in U.S. universities, just place the cause of feminism or gay rights in direct opposition to the "right to oppress other religions" towel heads. Sadly U.S. conservatives are just too stupid for this job.

38 Devils Advocate is wise. His rant is right on and true. Republicans are not conservatives any longer. They gave up on that when they decided Dumbya was their dictator. The progressives are trying to get the country back on track after 6 years of you all slipping into a coma. With the kool-aid wearing off, maybe you all can see what has been truly happening to your country. If you allow limbaugh, coulter, hannity, oreilly, etc...to spew their hateful and unpatriotic words, then you need to allow the "other side" to speak their minds also. Does that sound fair? It seems when the rethugs got their beating on Nov. 7, you folks got nuttier and nuttier. The whole country knows dumbya is an imbecile - frankly the whole world knows it too. But you have so much energy and hate invested in the dimwit, it is hard to let go isn't it? But you must let him go. His dad is watching him now, so you can go on about your lives and start being a loyal American once again. I know for you rethugs, the world "out there" is a very stange and scary place. Most people don't look like you do - and that makes you crazy. Progressives welcome all thinking and feeling people in their party. You folks hate - we care. you folks attack foreign nations, we try to find a more thoughtful way to go about things. you folks welcome spying and the bankrupting of our nation, we try and understand how things are working so we can make them better. You folks like "feeling safe" - not being safe - but feeling safe. We try to understand where the risks are and devote resources to those risks. You folks are scared of science (maybe cause you never spent enough time in school to understand it). We want to utilize science for the betterment of the planet. You folks are just as fanatical as the muslims. You are. there is no difference between some of the teachings of "those bad people" and the teachings of fundamentalist christians (man has dominion over woman, women don't have a decision over their own bodies - stuff like that). So it seems you are all cut from the same cloth. America (and Americans) will survive George W Bush. We will need to spend the next 30-50 years building the US back up, but we can do it. We also need your help to do this. Bush is not king (although I sense a lot of rethugs like the idea of a king because they wouldn't have to think very much or decide things for themselves), he is not a dictator. Actually he is barely a man. We need to forget about this historical midget and move on to a better country for all of our children.

39 Wow, this sure got big fast...

PuddleDuck
Last time I tried, I couldn't get a copy of either book. Last I heard the left was into banning books because they were dangerous, but I know that college students often can 'get' things. I saw some books at a store in Calgary that were right in that catagory. I picked up a catalogue, but neither of the books I mentioned were in it.

Students are already showing violent tendencies, so the university system is becomeing dangerous. How dangerous depends on if you are part of the university culture, or not.

I really think the 'hate America' crowd has ruined higher education in many parts of the country. In my part of the world, hating America is not the default position, so maybe it can be corrected here. We do have a 'distrust the government' default setting here, but thats different.

Tanks at Waco. Need I say more about Leftist fascism? Was that Stalinist enough for everyone?

Happy thanksgiving.

USA all the way!

40 To Ragnar - My words are true, but I know the truth does hurt sometimes. You can also take your violent ways and stuff them. Violence - thanks to "dear leader" - is how we got into the mess we are in now. If you do read, you will also find that progressives - as a whole - are better educated, make more money, live longer, tolerate more, give more of their own time, etc...I'm not here to say anyone is better than anyone else. And, if I may, remind you that YOU brought up your trusty AR-15. Wow. A small insignificant little man with a weapon. Gee, what an accomplishment. Dude - anybody can buy (or steal) a weapon - ain't no big deal. Words and understanding are going to make sure the human race survives - not your little weapon. It is also curious that you brought it up. I wonder if there was an implied threat to my safety with your comment. Bullies are nowhere - just ask dumbya. He has the largest and best trained fighting force on earth and he can't control a country he decided to invade. See Ragnar - dumbyas has a weapon too, but like you, it is doing him no good. Cheers...Have a great holiday everyone.

41 everywhere you used a pejorative to describe the left-wing, I replaced that with something like, "thinking voters"

Nice try, but one survey after another has demonstrated that conservative voters are, as a group, both better-educated and better-informed than liberals.

Let me see some examples, please.

42 Jim sez:

everywhere you used a pejorative to describe the left-wing, I replaced that with something like, "thinking voters"

Nice try, but one survey after another has demonstrated that conservative voters are, as a group, both better-educated and better-informed than liberals.

JT sez:

It's not the liberals' fault if the logically impaired thinking of what passes for conservative thought these days...

Again, nice try, but perjoratives just don't make a good substitute for argument.

...is easily replaced by a liberal ideology based on what a professor says. That's like a cultist complaining that their kid doesn't want to be a part of cult anymore because they talked to a skater punk at the local 7-11!

Well, it's not like that all, but anyone who thinks those are the same thing is likely beyond trying to reason with.

Additionally, I'm not sure of where you went to college, but at the many colleges I've attended, very rarely are professors put up on such pedestals

If the political bias of the professors has little or no effect on the students, why not open the academy up to conservative professors?  The lefties won't--because they know better.

to joe : if we've learned that epithets are an integral part of an argument, we've learned it from the lefties.

if you want to express you ideas in a civilized and orderly manner politely and with respect for alternative points of view that is what University is for.

Yeah, that's all nice in THEORY.  The REALITY is a whole different story.  The reality is force, intimidation and thug behavior.

madmatt:

Proclamations of innocence?  I'm not sure I even know what that means in this context, but there have been unequivocal denunciations by Malkin and others.  As for Malkin's posting of personal info, she re-posted the contact info that they THEMSELVES put on their OWN website.  Aggressive?  Sure.  Horrible?  No.  Others may have a different opinion, but let's be honest about the FACTS.

Mr. C sez:

You people are all idiots.

Mr. C. - I agree with the rest of your comment, but if you're gonna lump ME in with the rest of the idiots, I'd respectfully request that you provide some EVIDENCE of my idiocy.

43 For all the lefties who don't remember, Communism was suppossed to destroy us from within, even to the point of using our schools against us.

Well it is working.

All the ranting about how Stalinist the gov is now is as nothing to the way things will end up if the Leftist strangle hold on universities is not broken.

Now happy Turkey day! In the USA!

44 Tom:

The world "out there" IS a very stange and scary place.  If you don't realize that, you're an idiot.  Try going to Riyadh with your liberal ideas.  Float them with some friends you find in a cafe.  Pass out some tracts on how being gay is OK.  Tell them about free love and Christianity.  Hell, you don't even have to go to Riyadh.  Try the same experiment on the outskirts of Paris.  Let us know how it goes.

Most people don't look like you do - and that makes you crazy.

Quite the contrary - I'm happy for humanity that most people don't look like I do.  Nice try with the strawman, though.  Don't y'all libs get tired of throwing all those strawmen around?

Progressives welcome all thinking and feeling people in their party.

Yes, as long as they THINK the same as you and they FEEL the same as you, you're all over welcoming them in.

You folks hate - we care.

Yeah, Tom--we can see the love in your words you've posted right here.  So much love.  So much caring.  Do you really BELIEVE the crap you type?

So, what do you have to say about the fact that libs are significantly stingier than conservatives when it comes time to give to charity?  So much for "caring."

You folks like "feeling safe" - not being safe - but feeling safe.

Thanks for telling me what I like.  How the fuck would you have the slightest IDEA what I like?

We try to understand where the risks are and devote resources to those risks.

Yeah, we can see that everytime you stick your fingers in your ears and your head in the sand.

You folks are scared of science (maybe cause you never spent enough time in school to understand it). We want to utilize science for the betterment of the planet.

HUH???  First of all, we're better educated and informed thatn you are, on average.  Second, who told you conservatives don't like science?!?!?  I LOVE SCIENCE--especially the kind of science that you can use to build bunker busters and killer bionic hornets.  There's a whole lot of science packed into my AR-15, and I thoroughly appreciate it every time I pull the trigger.  Sweet, sweet science...

It's the LEFTIES who are afraid of science.  SDI?  Animal research?  Genetic engineering?  Nuclear power?  "No, thanks--too scary."

So, do you have a VALID point to make, one backed up by some actual FACTS, perhaps?

45 Todd cracks me up. In one sentence he admonishes all liberals for tossing around the term "fascist" at every opportunity. Then, literally in the next sentence, he says that the people who stereotype others are what is wrong with America today. Good work Todd!

As to whether or not "the campus" should be ceded, I think conservatives, in general, ceded “the campus” when they decided that intellectual curiosity and critical analysis of facts had no place in the modern conservative movement. Conservativism today is much more about toeing the Republican Party line than it is about asking tough questions to tough problems that might sometimes reveal that what is good for the Republicans politically might be very bad for America as a whole. Many conservatives take great pride in their anti-intellectualism. The point of conservativism today is to create a culture of people who will respond favorably to talking points issued by conservative media outlets and who will never waver from the path chosen for the flock. There's a reason that Rush Limbaugh’s listeners proudly call themselves “dittoheads.” Fortunately for conservatives, there are a number of goodly conservative universities: Orel Roberts U., Bob Jones U., Liberty U., etc., just to name a few.

Maybe one reason that some universities have been hostile to visiting conservative lecturers or on-campus conservative groups is because modern conservatives are so hostile to education. For example, I can recall sitting in an English literature class when, one day, the professor began to talk about the impact that Charles Darwin’s “The Origin of Species” had on 19th Century literature and thought. A goodly conservative Christian student spent the next half an hour arguing with the professor that evolution was “just a theory.” But that wasn’t the point; the point was that “The Origin of Species” had an impact on Western literature and thought, whether you agreed with Darwin or not. The student just wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to foist her beliefs on the rest of the class. I wasn’t paying good money to listen to her babble. Thankfully, I encountered few such individuals in my college days, but I highly doubt that the student was alone in her sentiments.

As with my example above, if any of us decide that we want to seek out specific examples of one sort of bias or another, this world is full of all sorts of examples. The Malkin piece that Ragnar links to draws from an article in the New York Post (NYP), an unabashedly right-wing newspaper. Having read that NYP article, it is a shame that Nonie Darwish did not get a chance to tell her story. However, given that the NYP is the source, I have to wonder if we are seeing the whole story. We only know that her appearance was cancelled due to pressure from Brown’s Muslim community. Maybe years of propagation of the fear of Muslims by the right contributed to scaring Brown’s administrators into caving into the Muslim protests. The article doesn’t go into much detail on why her speaking engagement was cancelled.

By contrast, I wonder how many conservatives applauded Hamilton College when the school cancelled a speaking engagement by Ward Churchill. Churchill, you might recall, was the University of Colorado professor who was witless enough to suggest that the victims of 9/11 were a bunch of “technocrats” and “little Eichmanns.” Stupid comments aside, he might have had academically valid things to say on a host of other topics. Thanks to a flurry of patriotic correctness, he was shut down in a manner similar to the way that Brown shut down Nonie Darwish.

The Little Green Footballs piece that Ragnar linked to above gives us evidence of a tasteless Halloween costume and some swastikas that some idiot put on what looks like a restroom stall door. I don’t mean to endorse either one, but in the grand scheme of things (How many millions of college students are there in America?) they seem pretty petty.

Ragnar presents these three incidents as proof of “…the truth about what cesspools of anti-American nastiness our university campuses have become.” Is that the best he can do? If so, conservativism is in worse shape than I thought.

Oh, one other thing. Ragnar shouldn’t conflate conservative with pro-American. Pro-American attitudes come in liberal, conservative, and many flavors in between. That someone has a different idea as to what is in America’s best interests than Ragnar does doesn’t automatically make that person anti-American. To do so makes me think that perhaps Ragnar is a conservative first and an American second.

46 Yeah, yet ANOTHER jackass!! Way to go JML!! Obviously you aren't intelligent enough to recognize a satirical comment when you see one.

Sheesh. I thought you people were supposed to be intelligent...

47 I'd love to see some speaker or conservative student, in a state where concealed carry is permitted, draw on the left-wing terrorists on the grounds that they believed they were in grave danger from a lawless mob and that campus security failed to take action to protect them from physical violence despite threats made prior to the event.

No need to actually ventilate one of the little sh!ts -- just throw the fear of the deity of their choosing into them. Let them be too frightened to actually seek to shut down a speech or event -- they can protest all they want, but they should realize that any action in contravention of our rights might lead to "unfortunate consequences" for those who seek to violate the rights of conservative, pro-American speakers. After all, sthe Second Amendment is there for a reason.

If blood has to be spilled, let it be the blood of the petty "revolutionaries" who seek to suppress the liberties guaranteed by the First Amendment of the Constitution -- fundamental human rights with which we are endowed by our creator. And as for the fear of creating "martyrs", I'm all for doing so, just as we have made martyrs of Uday and Qusay Hussein, Al-Zarqawi, and countless other jihadis.

48 This topic hits a nerve for me. I didn;t finsih my college education and a while ago started back at my old university to do the classes I needed and get my degree. Anyway, I was taking a history class on the Vietnam War and a conservative co-worker saw my books and asked me about it. I explained I was taking a history class on Vietnam and he immediately started attacking me, my professor, and my school for being liberals, promoting agendas, etc. And for what? He didn't know a F*&cking thing about the class or my instructor. I like school, I like education, I enjoy it and if that makes me an evil liberal so be it. I'm tired of seeing the university system and anyone remotely attached to it being attacked by knee jerk right wingers. Its an economic system people, no one is forced to take classes. Don't like a professor's stance? Don't take the class, drop it. Like that asswipe in Colorado. If students simply refused to take classes by him and boycotted him it would be over and done for him. Universities don't get that much funding, they mostly rely on their students (i.e. consumers) for funding. You power is in your money, period. Besides, I don;t think people should be boycotted simply for their political stances, its getting absurd. And college students need to grow up and take responsibility for their educations. Their adults, quit acting like they are poor brain washed victims.

49 OK, I just saw my post, looks like hell. I'm sure someone is going to say 'no wonder you didn't finish school' so I'll just say it myself and beat him or her to it.

50 JML
We disagree a lot, but let me just say that Nonie Darwish had a chance to discuss her cancellation in other places besides the one you know of. She was shut down because her opinion is critical of Islam as expressed through violence, and because Muslims can't handle criticism.

Rhymes'
I can't quite go that far with you. The MSM is in charge, and the wheels of propaganda would be turning in favor of those who attacked you. I'm starting to get to where I think ridicule is the correct weapon in any situation where media could be involved. Carry a loaded pie

Also, a caution. Pulling out a gun in many places is felony assault, even if you have what you feel is fair cause. Its not fair, or just, but you risk jail even in making the warning.

I read once that two men who had permits for hunting rifles saw people looting their car from their apartment window. Someone called the cops, and they went out and held the theives at gunpoint, till the cops showed up.

The cops arrested the car owners for not having the correct permit to carry the guns in the city they were in (NYC) and the mandatory sentence was 1 year. I don't remember how it ended. I suppose I should track down more on that.

Anyway, you may be right, but get arrested, and sent to prison. You might think that is better than just taking it. You may be correct.

Ragnar
Thanks for putting this topic up.

USA all the way! Happy Thanksgiving.

51 JML -

I didn't intend to provide an exhaustive list of conservative events banned by university administrations.  I didn't know one was necessary.

I guess I expect too much of some people.  I guess I expect folks who read this blog (yes, even the leftists) to be informed, to read the news, and to stay up on current events.

Now, if I said "Bush is stupid," but only provided one example of Bush stupidity, I doubt you'd quibble with me or criticize me for only giving one example.  Why?  Because you like to think Bush is stupid and you already know other examples of Bush being stupid.

In this case, perhaps you don't like to think universities shut down free speech and you haven't taken the time to inform yourself as to whether or not they do.  Fact is, they do.  Routinely.  The evidence is all over the place.  The fact that you're oblivious to the fact is really not my problem.  Educate yourself.  It's not my job.

You claim that Pro-American is not exactly the same as being conservative.  You're right.

So, let's get down to brass tacks: are YOU pro-American?

Is there something special about America, or is it just one more nation in a community of nations?

If there is something special about America, what is it?

Do you want to see this country and its principles SUCCEED even if that means other countries and people have to FAIL?

Do you want to see this country and its principles TRIUMPH even if that means other countries have to be DEFEATED?

Are you willing to have people killed and things destroyed in order to protect America's interests?

52 From Michael Weaver's first post: "What about trying to start a rival university system?"

There are already plenty of universities that welcome conservative speakers and receive them graciously. They range from Falwell's Liberty University and Pat Robertson's Regent's University to small, church-affiliated colleges. Why don't you send your kids there? What? You're worried they will get laughed out of job interviews? Well then, by all means be a hypocrite and send them to prestigious secular universities--just tell them to put their fingers in their ears at the first hint of a liberal idea. Your stealth kiddies can harbor the same myths and ignorant prejudices of the Bob Jones graduates yet avoid the Bible College diploma stigma. I don't imagine that hypocrisy will be too hard to live with: I'm told that, with practice, you can build up a tolerance for it.

53 Or, EC, you could take your own damn advice and put your fingers in your ears.

Sheesh, for a group of people who are supposedly "tolerant" and "open-minded," you sure do act like a bunch of ignorant bigots.

Maybe it's just your true colors shining through...

54 Ragnar,

Thanks for your response.

You made a sweeping generalization that American universities are sliding into a cesspool of anti-Americanism. This is tantamount to a charge of treason. If you want to go that route, you had better have lots of hard evidence to back yourself up with. Otherwise, you just come across as a right-wing nutjob. So, yes, you would be wise to list more than the trio of instances in the links that you provided, only one of which, the cancelled appearance of Nonie Darwish, is relevant to the charges that you levied.

I did a few minutes of research on Nonie Darwish for my last post. It seems that her whole goal is fostering mutual understanding, and, subsequently, peace between the Arab world, Israel, and the West. Anybody who is for promoting peace and understanding is all right by me. Her position strikes me as fairly progressive (I’m not allowed to use “liberal” anymore.) and I’m surprised that a university like Brown would deny her an opportunity to speak. This is why I have to wonder if the New York Post piece that your friend Michelle Malkin liked to conveniently omitted some information that might shed more light on the situation. Perhaps it was simply a boneheaded decision by Brown administrators.

I like to think of myself as more informed than most. Apparently, you are more informed than the rest of us, including myself. To that end, frankly, no, I don’t see headlines every day that tell me that one conservative blowhard or another has been denied an opportunity to speak on your favorite campus. Again, if you spend all of your time looking for affronts to your ideological agenda, the world is full of them. This is true no matter what part of the political spectrum one resides in.

As I suggested above, perhaps any such opposition to conservative views on college campuses has to do with conservatives’ collective disdain for all things intellectual, which also happen to be the things that form the bedrock of higher education. The conflict of interest should be obvious. However, I think that there is a value in presenting today’s conservative viewpoints. I can’t think of a better way to show people how misguided conservativism has become that to let some faith-based patriotically correct idiot tell us all that exporting America’s manufacturing jobs to communist China is good for the American worker and for America in general, or that global warming is just part of a socialist anti-business agenda, or that the invasion and occupation of Iraq has been a smashing success.

Am I pro-American? Absolutely.

Is there something special about America? That depends on what you mean by “special.” America is definitely unique in the economic and military power that it wields. It is also unique in the make-up of its citizens, and especially in Americans’ abilities to coexist, relatively speaking, despite dramatic differences that in many other countries would result in civil unrest (see Iraq).

However, America used to be the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. Under the Bush Administration, we have been chipping away at the Free and we are becoming the Home of the Terrified. I have major problems with both of these phenomena. To this end, America is not the “Shining City on a Hill” that conservative hero Ronald Reagan constantly alluded to. Nor do I feel that America has Favored Nation Status with god, as many conservatives apparently do.

Perhaps you are aware that some Americans feel that freedom (a.k.a. civil liberties) has been under assault under the Bush Administration. Liberals, Leftists, or whatever you want to call them, “whine” about secret wiretaps and the detention of individuals accused of having ties to terrorism being detained without due process. And well they should. The Military Commissions Act of 2006 allows for things such as coerced statements and hearsay evidence to be used against defendants, as well as the suspension of Habeas Corpus, among other rebukes of long-standing legal practice in the West. The Right argues that these adjustments allow the President more flexibility in fighting terrorism. On the one hand, they’re right. On the other hand, there is a reason why America once held these ideals as core values. Allow me to create an analogy: Let’s say that Chicago’s Mayor Daley announced that the Chicago Police Department has the right to arrest and detain indefinitely any individual that the police thought might have even a passing association with street gangs. There is no question that such a decree would be very effective in fighting gang-related crime. However, it would also create an atmosphere that would allow for all manner of abuses by the police. Anybody who the city government found politically inconvenient might suddenly find themselves suspected of being associated with gang crime and subsequently arrested and jailed without any means of appealing their charges. Suspicion equals guilt in the Home of the Terrified.

Sure, I want to see America succeed (at what, exactly?). Is there a reason why that must come at the expense of others? If it does come at the expense of others, is it reasonable to expect that those others might retaliate against America? Can America succeed while promoting the prospects for others’ successes? (I hope so.)

If you support having people killed and things destroyed in the “defense” of American interests, however broadly or narrowly those interests might be defined and especially if said American interests have not been attacked by the recipients of America’s wrath, then do not be surprised when the subjects of those killings and that destruction vow to destroy America (see Iraq).

Oh, Todd, if that was satire, you really need to work on your delivery.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

55 JML -

First of all, I'll congratulate you on a post which is, in many aspects, thoughtful and well-reasoned.

However, there is a bigotry against conservatives that comes through very clearly in your writing.  You should work on that.

You are fond, for example, of saying things like this:

perhaps any such opposition to conservative views on college campuses has to do with conservatives’ collective disdain for all things intellectual, which also happen to be the things that form the bedrock of higher education.

Replace the word "concervative" in the above sentence with another group of your choice (Blacks, women, Jews, Amish) and read it back to yourself.  Sound enlightened?  Not much.

There is no "consevatives' collective disdain for all things intellectual."  Ever visted The Volokh Conspiracy?  Go hang out there for a day and then come back and tell me about this "collective disdain" for the intellectual.  I'm more educated and informed than most, and they lose me sometimes.

As re: whether you're "pro-American," from your answers to my questions, I'll go as far as the "Diet Coke" of pro-American.  Just one calorie--not too much.

Those of us who are civil libertarians fully understand and appreciate the need to be wary of all expanded govt. power.  The problem coming from the left side is that they don't seem to be willing to make distinctions between the various aspects of the Patriot Act, for example.  They make wild-eyed statements about how we've "thrown out the Constitution," etc.  That just makes the left look ridiculous, and makes reasonable people in the middle (much less on the right) arrive at the conclusion that the left can't be taken seriously as an interlocutor in the difficult work of balancing liberty and security.

56 JML,

I can only do so much over the internet to make it as easy as possible for idiots like you to "understand."

I can't help it if your intelligence quotient is that low.

As for your comment about conservatives' having a "disdain" for things intellectual: I wonder, do you actually BELIEVE that crap or have you been watching Olbermann reruns too much? If supressing opposing viewpoints is your idea of "intellectualism," then I hope this country is as anti-intellectual as can be. I've found in life that those who have to puff up their own intelligence do so because of a severe inferiority complex. Perhaps you realize you're really not as smart as you thought you were. Not surprising you want to squelch anyone with a different worldview than you. That's usually the response of the simple-minded.

57 I would like to thank the visiting lefturds for relieving me of my duty to remind everyone that you and all your terrorist butt-buddies should all be killed, since every time you hit the "post" button, you only make my case for me. I have better things to do and your efforts really free up a lot of my time, so thank you.

58 General response to various postings

A rival university system would be deling with factual knowledge, not teaching extreme and biased political veiws. No one should be ranting in class about Bush, or Clinton.

If you want to talk about abortion, outside of the actual medical procedure, talk about it in an ethics class. If you want to talk about 'Intelligent design' talk about it in Philosophy, because that is where it belongs.

If you are a teacher, you should, as a paid employee, not use the campus resources to promote your personal biased agenda. If you are a student organization, you should be allowed to participate in activities, and invite guests. All guest should be respected.

If Michael Moore (who I'd otherwise gladly throw up on) were an invited guest, I could be polite. You see, polite behavior is traditional in such cases, is civilized, and is supposed to be one of the benefits of a higher education.

I don't want any kids of mine attending a school where impolite behavior is celebrated. Where suppression of a guest speaker is tolerated, or cheered. Where rascism is ignored if the speaker hates Jews, but is inserted where it wasn't an issue, if the speaker is conservative.

If I want someone to teach my kids to be assholes, I can do that myself! We don't need no stinkin student loans ...

If we weren't so entrenched in the University System monopoly, I'd try to buy an alternative. Someone mentioned having your degree laughed at. Well I laugh at the quality of 'education' provided to most college students in America.

You want evidence that even our best colleges are failures? Hey everybody, look! Its GW Bush, and John Kerry! GW can't even identify a hateful death cult when he sees it, and Kerry can't tell our armed forces from Mongols. I'd flunk both of them. Especially right now.

I had an awesome Thanksgiving, and I hope you did also.

USA all the way!

59 Ragnar,

Thanks again for responding.

You’re right about one thing; I have a lot of problems with the conservative movement, at least in its current form. To an objective observer, do you think that my “bigotry” (nice subliminal suggestion that I might be a racist – I’m most definitely not) looks any different than your bigotry toward the Left/Liberalism in your initial post? You said, “The left-wingers and campus Islamic groups very effectively use violence and the threat of violence to shut down dissent on the university campuses.” I read this as a deliberate attempt to equate the American Left (there’s a Left in America?) with Islamic fundamentalism. Can you cite a specific instance where Leftists and Islamists have used violence to get their way on an American college campus? - Just curious, as I am not aware of any such incidents.

I didn’t mean to suggest that there is no such thing as a conservative intellectual. William F. Buckley. Pat Buchanan. Christopher Hitchens. Andrew Sullivan. I’ll even throw in Leo Strauss. Dare I include Donald Rumsfeld? Part of the problem here, and I think you’ll agree, is that we are forced somewhat to use generalizations about the Left or the Right, or conservative or liberal. I would bet that no two individuals have the exact same views on all of the issues that America is faced with today, no matter their political orientation. However, I do feel that conservatives are generally much more alike in their views, relative to one another, than are liberals. Conservatives tend to be more religious and more prone to a flock mentality (see “dittoheads”). This has translated into electoral advantages for the Republicans over the years, as they tend to operate in lock-step, whereas the Democrats have tended to be a sort of mish-mash of people who are uncomfortable with the Republican agenda, often for very different reasons that are themselves at odds.

You might not be aware of it, but your initial post has a very anti-university, and by extension, anti-intellectual air to it. You said that, “Conservative and pro-American speakers routinely have their campus speaking events cancelled…” Routinely? Can you provide evidence that this is the norm, not the exception? Again, you only linked to one instance of a cancellation, and I’m not so sure that Nonie Darwish is explicitly conservative. In fact, Darwish’s views seem fairly liberal/progressive, which makes Brown’s decision all that more puzzling.

I assert that conservatives, in general (certainly not in total, and, yes, I am making a generalization), have a “collective disdain for all things intellectual” based on personal experience (I grew up in a small, largely conservative town in rural Michigan) and what I can gather from right-leaning sources, particularly in the blogosphere. In efforts to gain political advantage, the Republican Party, and, by extension, conservatives, have courted Christian fundamentalists for decades. To no small extent, conservatism has been redefined in recent years, as has liberalism. Notice that many people who would have proudly called themselves liberals 25 years ago now call themselves “progressives.” Today’s conservatives have an entirely different agenda than the old low-taxes-and-keep-government-off-my-back agenda of yore. Today’s conservatives, in general, do not like anything that challenges their faith-based views of the world; faith comes first and reality is a distant second. These people have hostile attitudes toward science in general, as science tends to debunk long-held religious beliefs.

I’m well aware that there are some people who have woken up recently to find that conservativism has been redefined out from under themselves, so to speak.

As to the issue of pro-Americanism: You seem to put American citizens into two categories – Real Americans are those who agree with you, and Un-Americans are those who dare to challenge you. As to the concept of American exceptionalism; it just seems to me that the idea that Americans are fundamentally better human beings than people who have the misfortune of living elsewhere, or the idea that America can just do what it pleases on the global stage without the expectation of protest or reprisal, is just arrogant.


Todd,

Show me where I suggested anything remotely like the idea that suppressing opposing viewpoints is my idea of intellectualism. Here’s a complimentary set of quotation marks that you can use (“”). Here’s another set that you can use to show us all where I said that I want to squelch anyone with a different worldview than my own (“”).

I’m glad that you made your last post. You support my case. You are obviously very put off by the fact that I challenged you and Ragnar. Obviously, you didn’t take the time to read my posts thoroughly. You just offered up knee-jerk reactions to perceived threats to your positions. However, you seem to have no shortage of nasty names to call people who disagree with you. I suppose that’s something to be proud of…


If anybody needs proof of how hostile some right-wingers have become to opposing views, look no further than the post by Improbulus Maximus.

60 JML,

You're insistence that the conservative movement is "hostile" toward education or intellectual thinking is proof enough. It's just one example of the typical liberal elitist attitude that pervades not only our university system, but our society in general.

I have read your posts thouroughly. What you fail to grasp is that I (and obviously others) find very little of value in them, and little in the way of cogent thinking. You offer up the tired old arguments of the left as enlightened individuals vs. the right as close-minded neanderthals. And yet, time after time all we see is the left squelching the views of those they disagree with. This is hardly "enlightened" thinking. This is the result of fear and hatred, things the left has in abundance.

As for name-calling, if someone is a jackass, I'll call them a jackass. In other words, if the shoe fits, wear it. If you want to offer up the same old tired liberal talking points, I'm going to call you a shill, because that's what you are.

If anyone needs any proof of how hostile the left has become towards anyone who doesn't toe the line, go visit Kos or DU. Better yet, go visit an Ivy League school where a conservative is slated to speak.

61 *** I don't think physical violence by our side is the answer. ***

But by bringing it up you show that you've been pushed to the point of at least *considering* it, even if you are (for now) rejecting that option.

What you want is to have your views respected. You want for people to listen to you and to understand the underlying principles and key issues that shape your worldview. When you don't get that, you find it frustrating. Extremely frustrating. To the point that you start pondering the question of whether violence is the right way to address the problem.

But what you're pushing is the view that in response to groups that have been frustrated to the point of considering violence as a tactic, trying to understand the underlying principles and key issues that shape their worldview is the wrong approach.

Isn't there just a glimmer of cognitive dissonance inside your head over this?

62 well done. the latter part of this thread is worth reading in its entirety. You all managed to raise the bar in terms of talking to each other. Keep it up and we will all benefit.

63 This situation has absolutely no bearing on 99% of all institutions of higher learning in America. It's an idiotic bit of hysteria.

"I don't have a solution to this problem as of yet. I don't think physical violence by our side is the answer. Setting aside the moral issues . . . ."

LOL

64 Todd,

I don’t mean to suggest that conservatives are inherently stupid, but I do assert that conservatives, in general, are bent on upholding the status quo as they see it. If upholding a status quo is the goal, then any view that challenges the status quo will automatically be met with resistance, no matter whether that view has any validity or not. Objective review of such challenges is suspect in the conservative world (see Iraq). I don’t need to tell you that if challenges to the status quo had been rejected out-of-hand since the beginning of time, we would still be living in goddamned caves.

If I am not mistaken, there is a “museum” in Arkansas (where else?) that exists for the sole purpose of “proving” that the dinosaurs existed during the days that Adam and Eve were alive (if they, in fact, were real themselves…). If this isn’t a rebuke of intellectualism, please tell me what is. Again, I understand that not all conservatives are this stupid, but conservatives have made a pact with these religious extremists to share some common ground and promote one another’s interests for political gain and, by extension, the conservative movement at large has endorsed such incredible ignorance and stupidity. This is the future of America that the conservative movement, as a whole, wants to build.

I fully understand that you find no value in my posts. I sincerely appreciate that. As to whether or not those on the Right are a bunch of closed-minded Neanderthals, one need not look further than the “dittohead” phenomenon. What’s your explanation?

Is the Left squelching views of those they disagree with? Show me some proof. Ragnar linked to a Michelle Malkin piece, and she provided a link to exactly one such example, and then based on that one incident Ragnar proceeded to declare that the entire university system in America has become a cesspool of anti-Americanism, and we don’t even know all of the details about the situation at Brown. If it were up to me, Nonie Darwish (a.k.a. the conservative victim) would have had full run of an auditorium at Brown.

While we’re on the topic of squelching viewpoints, have you ever watched Fox News? They have turned squelching opposing views into a spectator sport. You wanna talk about fear and hatred in abundance? Listen to El Rushbo, listen to Sean Hannity, listen to Neal Cavuto, listen to Michael Savage, listen to Ann Coulter. I’d bet that you have no problem with any of them since they actively support a conservative agenda.

I am familiar with DailyKos and the DU websites. Frankly, while I might share some of their overall ideologies, I tend to be turned off by them for the same reasons that a lot of Right-wingers turn me off. They seem to be more interested in creating conflict between Left and Right than they are in objectively dissecting the issues of the day. Kinda like a lot of Right-wing sites.

65 I went to a "conservative" university - the Catholic University of America and saw mostly the opposite of what you see - I saw the "right" trying to silence the "left." Perhaps it's just some humans' nature to be offended by dissent? Perhaps thoughts collect and become hardened if not questioned regularly? I'm just spitballing. As a moderate, I find I'm always looking for balance and middle ground. I'm not saying that's always the best thing, but it can be helpful when two sides are so polarized.

66 JML,

Status quo, huh. You mean like status quo on Social Security, medicare, prescription drugs, immigration reform, etc. Is that the status quo you're talking about? Remind me again, which group of people is it that refuses to examine these failed programs and institute reform?

The thing I find quite humorous with those of the liberal persuasion, or "progressive" (I guess that's what they're calling themselves this month), is that nothing they promote is new, nor progressive. Let's just take tax cuts for example. History has proven that when you lower taxes, tax revenues actually go up (this has happened yet again under Bush.) But what does the left want to do? Raise taxes. Why? Because of the deficit. But wait a minute. If you want to bring in more revenue to cut down the deficit, shouldn't you lower taxes even more, while cutting spending? History says so, yet they hold on to their tired old view. Why? Not because of the deficit, but because class warfare plays so well to their base. Tell me, what is so intelligent or intellectual about THAT?! It's pandering, plain and simple, the same pandering you charge the right with in regards to people of faith.

I don't watch Fox News. I don't watch any cable news program, or national news program for that matter. After Dan Rather's shoddy piece of propaganda in 2004, I quit watching these "news" programs. If I want to be spoonfed BS, I'll go to DU or Kos of LGF. Otherwise, I'm quite capable of finding out information on my own, and wise enough to recognize bias when I see it.

As to the one example cited at Brown University, take a look at Colombia University and what happened when the founder/leader of the Minuteman project was invited to speak recently. People rushed the stage and shouted him down. I believe that punches were thrown as well. There have been MANY such examples. Take 2 minutes with Google and you'll see what I mean. There is an anti-intellectual spirit among many colleges and universities today. I know I certainly saw it when I was at Yale. Dare to question the standard liberal viewpoint and you've guaranteed yourself pariah status. Pray tell, how are these places considered institutes of higher learning?

It'll be interesting to see what happens one day when liberals wake up and realize they aren't as smart as they think they are.

67 Todd,

Correct me if I’m wrong, but some of the biggest changes to welfare in recent years came under Clinton’s administration. Regarding Social Security, Medicare, prescription drugs, immigration reform, etc., the Republicans have been running the whole show for six years. If you’re not happy with how they’re handling those issues, take it up with them. Oh, wait, the American electorate just did. Nevermind…

Nothing new? On the one hand you’re right. “Progressives” have spent a lot of time lately defending some long-standing pillars of our culture, such as habeas corpus. Progressives have also been the champions of a slew of environmental issues that the Right has completely ignored, probably because there is nothing in the Bible about global warming.

If playing up the class warfare that corporate elitists have declared on those of us who are so low and worthless that we actually have to rely on jobs to earn livings for ourselves (unlike the real Americans who inherit their wealth) plays well to the Democratic base, then from an electoral strategy standpoint, it is actually fairly intelligent, no?

It is comforting to see that you view a number of news media outlets with suspicion. Out of curiosity, what news sources are you familiar with that you feel are worth paying attention to? Which ones are least “biased” in your mind? Or are they all rubbish, and, in that case, how do you stay abreast of current events?

There are plenty of examples of individuals representing both the Left and the Right doing what they can to stifle dissent. Don’t equate the actions of a few intolerant idiots with the larger missions of our institutes of higher learning.

If you have a degree from Yale, I’ll bet you would agree that that degree has bought you more and better opportunities than similar degrees from lots of other schools, including decidedly conservative schools. Are you really prepared to challenge Yale’s status as an institute of higher learning? If so, maybe we’ll all wake up one day to discover that we’re not as smart as you.

68 JML,

Yes, some of the biggest changes came forth under the Clinton administration. But let's be honest. They came about as a result of the '94 election. Even 2006 pales in comparison to THAT rout. Clinton was a brilliant strategist and knew EXACTLY what '94 meant. The guy was no dummy.

Progressives have offered up nothing new to deal with the problems that we have. Seriously, 2006 was a repudiation of the republican party. What, exactly, did the democrats run on? What was their unified platform? Their unified platform was "we're not republicans." Where are all of these progressive ideas on how to deal with our energy crisis? That's right. Quit looking and drilling for our own oil. Alternative energy sources are still years away. We need to do something in the meantime, yet can't because the left won't let us. What about Social Security? Status quo. But habeus corpus for terrorists? Yeah!

Class warfare is a disgusting strategy, just as playing the homosexual marriage card is a disgusting strategy by the right. Income is up across the board, the unemployment rate is low, and disposable income is up. You act as if this is bad somehow. Those with more money are ALWAYS going to make more money that those with less. If the market dictates that someone is worth X amount of dollars, then that's what the market dictates. I don't see anyone crying about how the oil companies were making a pittance when oil was around 15-20 dollars a barrel.

As for news outlets, I read Reuters, AP, various local and national newspapers online, as well as several blogs. I also watch my local news programs. And yes I do *GASP* go to drudgereport. I also vist DU, KOS and LGF just to see what the nutcases are up to.

The Yale I attended does not resemble the Yale of today. I remember we used to throw HUGE parties whenever one of us scored an A in one of our classes, considering they were so difficult to come by. Now, they pass them around like candy, lest they hurt anyone's feelings. That, to me, does not resemble an institute of higher learning. I've audited a couple of classes over the past couple of years and I must say, was fairly disappointed. Debate used to be welcome. I watched as one student was shouted down by several others for saying that *GASP*, maybe Fidel Castro has not been good for Cuba, while the professor sat back and did nothing. The kid left in tears. Exactly what are we teaching these kids by allowing this kind of behavior? If this is "higher learning," perhaps I'll stick to the lower kind.

69 The sad and now perhaps revealed truth about college is that their are a large number of imperious ...holes who live to excercise their sadistic streak. I once took a dispute of character between myself and a "professional academic" all the way to the top. It did not end well for me. His bullying ways sadly continued for years and he retired. But that is the brutal nature of academia. These are life lessons arriving early. Take them and learn and if you truly believe what you profess then you will carry on ever affirmed. Unless you are changed and then you have them to thank.

70 You lament the lack of debate and civil discourse in our universties while witnessing the most secretive, debate-phobic, intolerant, ideologically rigid administration in our history pursue its evangelical agenda and disgrace itself and the country.

As usual, you pampered little right-wing nutjobs miss the forest for the trees. Actually, it is high time blazer wearing, snot-nosed republicans of any age or place were told to shut up and go away.

Grosshouse

71 Todd,

If simply not being Republicans was enough to get Democrats elected, that really says something about how far the Republicans have strayed. Note that a number of “conservative Democrats” were elected. It is inevitable that we will tap North American resources for every last ounce of fossil fuel. One of the reasons that alternative energy sources are years away is that energy policy, especially under Bush, has practically been hand-crafted by the oil industry. They’re not about to shoot themselves in their feet. No matter where we get fossil fuels from, there will eventually be a day when there is no more. When that happens, we’ll probably discover that our collective shortsightedness will have us playing catch-up with Japanese or the Chinese. Again.

As far as habeas corpus for terrorists: How do we (did we until recently) determine guilt in America? We hold trials. If we deny trials, then how can we legitimately punish individuals who are otherwise merely accused of having links to terrorism? The Right just wants to punish everybody in the hopes that the true terrorists get caught in the net. If they’re genuinely guilty of terrorist-related activity, fine, liquidate them. Otherwise, if mere accusation is all it takes to be put away for life, America starts to look like a lot of other authoritarian regimes.

Class warfare is a nasty strategy. So is class warfare. The anti-gay strategy by the right is every bit as nasty. Unfortunately, it has proven to be fairly successful.

Here’s where you completely lose me: “I don’t see anybody crying about how the oil companies were making a pittance when oil was around 15 – 20 dollars a barrel.” When the hell have the oil companies made a mere pittance? What are you smoking and where can I score some?

I think you’re right that standards at many schools have fallen over the years. Colleges and universities are also businesses. The more bodies they keep in their classrooms, the more money rolls into their coffers. You’re a pro-business type, you should understand this. Those who earned their A’s as opposed those who were given A’s should excel in post-college life. Unfortunately for employers, it can be hard to tell which is which sometimes when hiring recent grads.

We seem to have strayed quite a bit from the original topic, which I think we have pretty much beaten to death.

I’m outta here. Thanks for the debate. Enjoy the rest of your week-end.

Go Bears!

72 I have a question:

regarding the statement said severa times by someone that "conservatives are more educated and informed" than liberals as a whole...um, how is that if all the universities do is brainwash students into raging liberals?

According to you, this means that either the "liveral agenda" of the university isn't working so you have nothing to be so upset about, or allllllll these conservatives are going to school...uh, where? Are they cramming into the good and intelligent (as deemed by you) conservative schools that we've mentioned do excist? Exactly how are the conservatives getting so educated?

(P.S. I've always read exactly the opposite. I guess people can find whateever "facts" to support what they want to say when they look for them...)

73 EC: When people attack liberals at schools do you think the cause could be what the liberals have done to destroy the educational system. Perhaps its a warrented reaction.

74 The only "cesspools of anti-American nastiness" are blogs like this one, run by authoritarians who are against everything that is enshrined in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, i.e., the fundamental principles of American democracy. These people are the true traitors to Democracy and to this great country.

The only good thing to come out of these disastous six years, is that America has now discovered that there is a lunatic fringe in this country that advocates totalitarianism. By crawling from under their rocks, the totalitarians have made themselves visible. The rest of America now knows where to find the traitors.