1 Another university professor went off the deep end? There's been so many it's hardly news anymore.

2 Tell me again, Rusty, why I'm the one who should be silenced? You know, people who tried to warn others about Hitler were shouted down and ridiculed as dangerous warmongers. To be shocked by this behavior is not enough; one must be stirred to rage, and filled with hatred for the scum.

3 I've been following this from day one. And initially even Liberals were shocked. But in the days following, it slowly started turning around in the child molester's favor. The Lefty wagons have begun to circle around her and they're in full denial. At Patterico there's a slew of Lefties claiming Frisch's child molestation comments were actually fabricated by Goldstein himself. SICK!

4 firstly, thanks for the link, i appreciate it!

but, i would point out that frisch is obviously a whacko and also not a blogger of note (please see my discussion on her technorati list of blogs that link to her...about 12 in the last 12 months, before this whole brouhaha).

more than that, she didn't "threaten" jeff's child. she did wish him ill will, but that's different.

if i said i wish you were dead, that makes me a nutcase with no manners. if i said i'm going to kill you, that makes me a possible threat.

same w/the child molestation allegation. she didn't say she was going to molest the kid, she made a stupid, bad, ill-mannered and tasteless metaphor between jeff's child and jon benet ramsey. she didn't even say she hoped it happened, she said jeff better hope it doesn't happen.

parsing? perhaps. but let's be clear here: she's a nut, not a threat.

and, as others have pointed out, when the right starts condemning fred phelps, then we can talk about deb frisch.

(my apologies to anyone on the right who actually has condemned fred phelps. i'd like to know if you have. please come to my blog to let me know or email me.)

5 firstly, thanks for the link, i appreciate it!

but, i would point out that frisch is obviously a whacko and also not a blogger of note (please see my discussion on her technorati list of blogs that link to her...about 12 in the last 12 months, before this whole brouhaha).

more than that, she didn't "threaten" jeff's child. she did wish him ill will, but that's different.

if i said i wish you were dead, that makes me a nutcase with no manners. if i said i'm going to kill you, that makes me a possible threat.

same w/the child molestation allegation. she didn't say she was going to molest the kid, she made a stupid, bad, ill-mannered and tasteless metaphor between jeff's child and jon benet ramsey. she didn't even say she hoped it happened, she said jeff better hope it doesn't happen.

parsing? perhaps. but let's be clear here: she's a nut, not a threat.

and, as others have pointed out, when the right starts condemning fred phelps, then we can talk about deb frisch.

(my apologies to anyone on the right who actually has condemned fred phelps. i'd like to know if you have. please come to my blog to let me know or email me.)

6 >>>when the right starts condemning Fred Phelps then we can talk about deb frisch

Didn't I tell you the wagons have begun to circle! LOL!

Two points. First, Fred Phelps isn't ours. So we have no "obligation" to talk about him. Even Hitler wouldn't have associated with the guy. Deb frisch, on the other hand, IS the Left's. She a Leftwing wacademic at a major university who espouses mainstream Leftwing views. True, she's a bitch about it, but she's still mainstream Left. So you see, there's a slight diff.

Second, the right HAS talked about Fred Phelps. There have been several posts about him on this blog alone. He's a nutjob, and everybody on this blog has agreed he's a nutjob--with no qualifications. Why wouldn't we think he's a nutjob? He isn't one of ours.

7 For that comment, skippy, I may have to slap you.

8 Skippy -

I can't think of a non-lefty blogger who doesn't despise and publicly denounce Fred Phelps. (I use "non-lefty" instead of "conservative" because I don't necessarily consider myself a "conservative.") I don't regularly correspond with that many lefty bloggers, but I assume they feel the same way.

If you think the non-lefties have anything at all in common with the evil freak that is Fred Phelps, you completely fail to understand us and what we stand for. In case you missed it: I hate Fred Phelps.

Phelps never fails to draw derision from the non-lefty bloggers whenever he pops up his nasty head. He is one of the figures most hated by the group--likely even more so than Ted Kennedy and Jacques Chirac (if you can believe that).

Believe it or not, we even denounce Ann Coulter on occasion when her behaviour calls for it. For example, when Ann used the word "raghead" in a speech last year, Michelle Malkin didn't hesitate to pounce on her, and with good reason. When Pat Robertson runs his mouth, there are plenty of us more than happy to give him the rhetorical "stiff arm" when it's called for.

Below are a few recent posts relating to Phelps & his crew, some from names you probably know. After you read these posts, I'd be curious to know whether you continue to believe that non-lefty bloggers coddle or ignore Phelps, or do anything other than unequivocally denounce him.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004168.htm

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=17520&only

http://thirdwavedave.blogspot.com/2006/07/honoring-our-fallen.html

http://greensickle.com/2006/07/fred_phelps_may_we_never_see_h.html

http://thoughtfulconservative.blogspot.com/2006/06/flag-burning-amendment.html

9 Thanks ASE. I used your list on skippy's site.

10 thanks all seeing eye, for the list of non-lefty's who have condemned phelps. i'll do a post on your list, including my original comment here for context.

however, i gotta say, when i first wrote "thanks for the link" i hadn't actually seen the whole post (because your front page post ends with a link to my site saying "see what skippy has to say" and i assumed you meant for people to go to my site. didn't know you had more to say on the subject).

ergo, i can't let the "traitors" comment go. whether you were talking about coulter's remark to kill a supreme court justice or congressman (against the law, btw) or just the nytimes publishing previously-approved addresses of administration vacation homes, those are not legal, nor even moral definition of traitors, unless you want to go out on the same nutty limb that frish currently occupies.

and again, frisch didn't threaten the kid. she did have bad manners and obviously has enough issues to start her own magazine, but she didn't threaten, as i mentioned above.

i also take exception to your characterization of what i said on my blog as something tantamount to "no big deal, nothing over the line, nothing to see here. we all hope our political adversaries' children end up dead."

i didn't say that. i didn't imply that. i never said, intimated, alleged, even in a joking manner that i hope any child ends up dead.

as i am quite happy to blog about your list of non-lefty's who condemn phelps, i am sure you will be happy to apologize for putting hateful words, however much poetic license and colorful hyperbole you may have used to do it, in my mouth.

refusing to condemn (and this is important, you non-lefty's, as you make this mistake a lot) is not the same as endorsing.

however, that being said, i will happily reproduce the list you've provided in repsonse to my request about phelps, and i'll be waiting for your apology.

11 thanks all seeing eye, for the list of non-lefty's who have condemned phelps. i'll do a post on your list, including my original comment here for context.

however, i gotta say, when i first wrote "thanks for the link" i hadn't actually seen the whole post (because your front page post ends with a link to my site saying "see what skippy has to say" and i assumed you meant for people to go to my site. didn't know you had more to say on the subject).

ergo, i can't let the "traitors" comment go. whether you were talking about coulter's remark to kill a supreme court justice or congressman (against the law, btw) or just the nytimes publishing previously-approved addresses of administration vacation homes, those are not legal, nor even moral definition of traitors, unless you want to go out on the same nutty limb that frish currently occupies.

and again, frisch didn't threaten the kid. she did have bad manners and obviously has enough issues to start her own magazine, but she didn't threaten, as i mentioned above.

i also take exception to your characterization of what i said on my blog as something tantamount to "no big deal, nothing over the line, nothing to see here. we all hope our political adversaries' children end up dead."

i didn't say that. i didn't imply that. i never said, intimated, alleged, even in a joking manner that i hope any child ends up dead.

as i am quite happy to blog about your list of non-lefty's who condemn phelps, i am sure you will be happy to apologize for putting hateful words, however much poetic license and colorful hyperbole you may have used to do it, in my mouth.

refusing to condemn (and this is important, you non-lefty's, as you make this mistake a lot) is not the same as endorsing.

however, that being said, i will happily reproduce the list you've provided in repsonse to my request about phelps, and i'll be waiting for your apology.

oh, and frisch is not a professor (even before her resignation). she was an "adjutant" professor, which is more like a temp secretary.

12 hey, sorry about that, i can't seem to get the hang of posting here, i certainly don't mean to post my comments more than once.

13 >>>refusing to condemn (and this is important, you non-lefty's, as you make this mistake a lot) is not the same as endorsing.

Why would you refuse to condemn? Do her comments not shock and disturb you? Is this some new twisted manifestation of Leftwing "tolerance"? Ideology aside, it's weird that you would refuse to condemn her, and revealing.

There are only two possible reasons why you would refuse to condemn. Either because you are not disturbed by her comments, OR you because she's one of yours. So which is it? In either case, that is EFFED UP. You Lefties need a new moral compass. It's not all about "Bush" and the rethuglikkkans 24/7.

14 Skippy:

Fred Phelps is a registered Democrat. Yes, we despise him, but he's not ours to begin with.

Now, if you want us to disown, oh, Pat Robertson, for example, no problem. Robertson is a dick.

(Of course, I'm not a Republican, or even conservative, so coming from me that doesn't say much.)

15 Skippy -

For your future reference, the words "Read More 'More on Protein Wisdom'" is the Jawa way of subtly hinting to the reader that there's MORE to READ about PROTEIN WISDOM.

Now, when you say "I can't let the 'traitors' comment go," you apparently mean "I saw the word 'traitors' in front of me, and I have both a philosophical AND a legal opinion on 'traitors,' so I am compelled to share my philosophical and legal opinions, even though they have pretty much zero relevance whatsoever to the topic." Since you apparently failed to read it, my 'traitors' comment was:"Yes, that's exactly the same thing. Prosecuting traitors is exactly the same thing as murdering two-year-olds."After skimming that sentence, you then infer that I MUST have been comparing murdering two-year olds to killing a Supreme Court justice or congressman, or inferring that the New York Times' mere publication of Dick Cheney's home address was an act of treason. But let's stop and think. Is it POSSIBLE that I was talking about something ELSE? I wonder: has anyone done anything ELSE recently that has been characterized as treason? Here's another hint: has THE NEW YORK TIMES done anything else recently that has been characterized as treason? The mind boggles...

I don't know if you have children, but if you do, and some strange and clearly disturbed dude you'd never met directed the exact same comments to you that Frisch sent to Goldstein, I think you'd see those same comments a whole lot differently than you apparently do at present.

You can take exception to my "characterization" of your words all you want, but I stand by it 100%. I not only quoted you word for word, I also linked to your post. Anyone can read your own words right above mine and read your entire article via the link--if one is so inclined. If I mischaracterized your words in any respect, I'm sure that's clear enough to the readers.

In other words, I wouldn't go holding my breath for an apology.

Now, stay with me, here. Since you clearly didn't catch the implication the first time, I'll type more slowly this time around. I wasn't asserting that YOU personally want any particular child to die. I certainly hope you don't, and I really doubt you do. In fact, I think only a very twisted person would wish death on a child, even the child of one's worst enemy. And that's my point. You claimed that Frisch didn't do anything more than to just be an "asshole." You then asserted that we're all "assholes," thereby implying that we're all (more or less) just like Frisch. The ultimate implication of that, whether you like it or not, is that Frisch didn't write anything that was over any line of decency. So yes, your words did indeed imply that Frisch's comments were "no big deal" and that there was "nothing to see here." If that wasn't the implication you intended to convey, you made a very poor choice of words.

In order to truly believe that Frisch's comments were simply "bad manners," you'd have to believe that it's not really exceptional to publicly wish death on the children of one's political adversaries. You'd have to believe that Frisch's behavior was no more egregious than if Frisch had merely farted on Goldstein, or chewed with her mouth open, or cut him off in traffic. In my world, it's really quite unusual to hear a college professor publicly state that she hopes that someone else's child meets a horrible and violent death--and thankfully so. I suspect it is unusual in your world as well. Accordingly, the idea that Frisch was simply being impolite, or that she didn't write anything that you or I might not have written in a passion-filled moment of anger is just absurd.

Frisch's comments to Goldstein were abhorrent and highly disturbing, and were well beyond the level of vigorous internet debate we're all now well accustomed to. Her comments were NOT morally equivalent to controversial statements of Ann Coulter or even Pat Robertson. Frisch's words were, in fact, closer to the level of a disturbed freak show like Fred Phelps. The difference between Frisch and Phelps is that no one (to my knowledge) is defending Fred Phelps or trying to say that his comments are "morally equivalent to" or "no different than" the words of this outspoken person or that on the left, while the left feels some wierd compulsion to circle the wagons around Frisch. I really don't get it.

(No guarantees, but this is probably my last word on this thread, so have fun & good luck.)

16 You folks keep on misrepresenting the "liberal response" to this story.

Nobody, nobody, nobody "supports" what Deb Frisch did. In fact, we all universally "condemn" it.

That said, there are additional points that have been made repeatedly:

1. Frisch's crime, while clearly wrong and over-the-top, isn't so serious that she should have her career derailed over it. She has since apologized, it was clear all along that she was never an actual threat. Everybody who blogs or comments on blogs has gone "over-the-top" at one time or another... Let's all be grownups here and concede that while despicable, Deb's comments shouldn't mean the end of her job, because if they did, and we held everyone to the same standard...

2. ...many of us would be in the same boat, including many prominent conservative bloggers and their supporters - even Jeff Goldstein himself.

Goldstein sets the stage for sex and violence on his blog with his own comments about "slapping you in the face with my cock," etc. His transgressions in this area are well-known and documented. They are universally accepted as harmless, if a bit offensive. Jeff and his commenters aren't blushing virgins. They are big boys and girls who, like most of us blogging adults, know that sticks and stones may break our bones but names will never hurt us.

17 Liberal,

oh I see, it's not a new twisted form of Leftwing "tolerance", it's the same old tired Leftwing moral equivalency.

18 I had to look up who Fred Phelps is. All I can say is whoa. This what he said about the president: "George Bush worships Mr. Peanut, whose name is the great god Goober" Now if ever there is a statement that sums up the mindset of a person, this one is it. I also saw the Fox news interview with his daughter. Listening to her reminded me of the old preacher from Poltergeist 2.

As for this woman who has a problem running her mouth, Tolerence is a crime when applied to evil. I read that somewhere. But they are simply words for right now. From what I have read her words usually get about as much pub as mine.

19 So I gather from the outrage here that all of you will now denounce Misha over at the Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler for proposing that if you don't agree with the Supreme Court, you have the right to string them up?

Or is the outrage here just the usual IOKIARDI?

20 George,

there's a difference between rhetorical hyperbole vs child porn. So no, I have no intention of denouncing that.

21 Fred Phelps is a Democrat.

22 I love how the left, who I can acknowledge were not supporting her words, twists this into a free speech thing. Let me say this: Go talk to law enforcement or even a lawyer. What she did was NOT in the name of politics. It was personal. And highly illegal. There is a word called 'assault' that can apply to a felony. I've seen lesser words lead up to investigations from the FBI. What she suggested was directed directly to the boy's father. And it wasn't just a comment about the kid being 'Jon Benet'd'. The french kiss comment with a lot of saliva was so fricken gross. IF Misha, or Ann or any other winger were personally calling the parents or the justices and making comments about their kids like that, I would be the FIRST to go freaky on them.

As a conservative, I am a lot harder on conservatives saying stupid shit. And you lefties should google our rightie, Debbie Schussel, who, if you want to see how we call out bloggers who are out of line, go look her up. Shit, there is a blog coalition based just on her.

And you are batshit crazy if you think for ONE second we would not condemn Phelps. Fox News tore up one of the members of that sick vile bitch daughter. And I also want to note some of the threads over at DU concerning our troops, our country and admitted vandalism crimes are NEVER condemned. But then again, even many of you libs consider them nutbags.