December 18, 2006
"The Left are skeptical about Malkin because it's very obvious that her motive is not truth."As usual, debating with a leftist is an exercise in frustration. Not a single one of the above points is a counter-argument to any point I raised in my original post. I wonder sometimes: are leftists even CAPABLE of rational thought and logical argument? I used to think they were just intellectually lazy. I'm starting to think most leftists are cognitively impaired. I'm really not kidding.I can't speak to Michelle Malkin's motives, but her motives are irrelevant. Prominent bloggers in general, and Michelle Malkin in particular, are generally very accurate, but their track record on veracity has nothing to do with the quality of AP's reporting. Michelle Malkin could theoretically have a terrible track record for truth and still be 100% right as to the facts on THIS STORY. This story is not about Michelle Malkin, Curt, our own Dread Pundit Bluto or any of the other bloggers who have been doing great work on this one. Nobody is taking their word for anything. This is about AP's quality control (or rather, the lack thereof) and AP's inability to present ANY verifiable evidence that the events actually happened as they claim.
The "only evidence for [Michelle Malkin's] point of view was [a] press-release from CENTCOM and MOI."
Again, both WRONG and IRRELEVANT. The bloggers, including Michelle, have cited a number of sources to back up her reporting, including but not limited to official govt. sources. Even if they had only cited official government sources, it places the AP story in doubt, thus placing a burden on the AP to bolster their position with some piece of verifiable evidence. The fact that AP can't clear up the discrepancy after the passage of several weeks casts even more doubt on their original report.
Malkin has "shown that she doesn't care for truth and/or logical thinking so many times you just can't count."
Yet again, both wrong and irrelevant. The bloggers could be the most illogical people in the world and still convey accurate facts. This is fundamentally about factual accuracy, a complete lack of verifiable evidence and a long list of inconsistencies--even within AP's own reporting. Either the bloggers' facts and arguments ON THIS ISSUE hold up or they don't.
Update Uno By Vinnie: My friend Ragnar shows his youthfulness. I learned long ago that debating with left/liberals is pointless. You can't rationalize with the irrational. So I settled on a policy of just jumping into the swamp and flinging their own poo back at them. I do to them what they do to us, call them names, twist their arguments to fit my agenda, and in general try to make their lives miserable. Not that it's hard to do, most left/liberals wander around life abjectly miserable to begin with, and their mission is to make those of us who aren't, just like them. Unlike them, however, I fling poo with a wink and a smile, they do it with abject, undisguised hatred. Which, of course, is something they accuse us of.
Posted by: Ragnar at
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Could drugs, pot, etc. have anything to do with it? (Not that lefties have a monopoly - but as a culture, they probably 'use' more on average)
Could the fact that key leftie beliefs - such as (a) socialism and (b) pacifism - are matters of total faith, maintained AGAINST all visible real-world evidence, have anything to do with it?
In my career arguing with lefties, I've noticed the following:
(1) THEY are usually not concerned with truth.
(2) They distract a lot. (Almost everything they say is designed to distract from the available facts and evidence.)
(3) They project a lot.
So when a leftie says, for example, "Michelle Malkin is not concerned with the truth"... he or she really means, "I am not concerned with the truth, and I would like to distract you from that if I may, by projecting it onto scapegoat Malkin."
Posted by: Calarato at December 18, 2006 06:21 PM (qcheU)
Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at December 18, 2006 06:45 PM (vBK4C)
Posted by: The Gray Monk at December 18, 2006 06:54 PM (K5++D)
You gave a link to Firedoglake's post as a proof that "Left Wingers carry the water for AP". The subject of that post was not the veracity of AP, but Malkin's motives and sanity, so I can't see how it is irrelevant. "The story" that Firedoglake discusses is not "six burnt Sunnies", but "Malkin goes to Baghdad" and it is discussed in the context of Powerline's "Iraq is twice as bad as Washington DC".
The bloggers, including Michelle, have cited a number of sources to back up her reporting, including but not limited to official govt. sources.
OK, what are those other sources?
This is fundamentally about factual accuracy, a complete lack of verifiable evidence and a long list of inconsistencies--even within AP's own reporting.
OK, go on, bash AP as much as you want, nobody will cry for them if they are found to be guilty. This would not change the general picture a bit, and this is what amuses "lefties". The level of violence is significantly underreported anyway, this is what ISG confirmed, this is what the Iraqi bloggers write. The "lefties" give AP benefit of the doubt not because they have such a big faith in AP, but because they can't imagine what would be the reason for inventing the story about six atrocious killings in a city where there's a daily harvest of sixty mutilated bodies anyway.
Posted by: Nikolay at December 18, 2006 07:18 PM (mS6dz)
Time to get back under the rock....
Posted by: codekeyguy at December 18, 2006 07:44 PM (+WuRB)
As to "are leftists even CAPABLE of rational thought and logical argument?" the answer would be a resounding "NO!"
It's all about talking points, deflections, feelings, and smears.
Anyhow, what else would you expect from a school of, well, I hesitate to use the word "thought" in that phrase, maybe feeling? that makes keeping abortion on demand completely legal and easy to get their number one priority.
Posted by: William Teach at December 18, 2006 07:53 PM (doAuV)
As opposed to folks like you, who can with [broken] math prove that it's twice as bad as Washington DC. This was not a parody, this was an actual post on Powerline.
This story IS a big deal for you because you, obviously, hope to uncover some vast conspiracy that just invents those sixty daily mutilated bodies. This is your motive, although most of you don't state it this open, and this is desperate.
Posted by: Nikolay at December 18, 2006 08:09 PM (mS6dz)
Posted by: Kingcob Bob IV at December 18, 2006 08:15 PM (DebeI)
Posted by: Good Lt at December 18, 2006 08:17 PM (D0TMh)
Posted by: Perplexed at December 18, 2006 08:23 PM (nzqB7)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at December 18, 2006 08:27 PM (v3I+x)
big faith in AP, but because they can't imagine what would be the
reason for inventing the story about six atrocious killings in a city
where there's a daily harvest of sixty mutilated bodies anyway.
An this, dear Nikolay, is exactly why this story IS a big deal. Why make up stories? Because folks like you believe the BS, and soon its a "Known Fact" that we average 60 mutilated bodies a day....
Posted by: wooga at December 18, 2006 08:38 PM (t9sT5)
I fail to see the importance of the 6 burning sunnis.
3-4000 others died that month many described as "showing signs of being tortured"
The situation is very bad in Iraq.
If the situation was good there would not be any talk of a possible 15000 troop surge.
Vinnie at this point in our history the words "leftist and rightist" are losing their meanings. In what respect are you using them? It was the Republicans who ran up all of our record deficits. If by "leftists" you mean all of those Americans who are dreaming of a communist style government in the USA well there are some but I think perhaps not a significant number maybe 20,000. If by leftists you mean anyone who voted Democratic in the last election well that would be 56%. As for the "undisguised hatred" I could point you to some posts here from Maxie and others where the cutting of throats of Americans Quakers was posted and frequent talk of hanging of those with whom there was political disagreement. As for trying to make the lives of others miserable, well we all choose our own paths......
Posted by: John Ryan at December 18, 2006 08:49 PM (TcoRJ)
The fundamental problem with the US left is that all movements are driven by two cognitions: the Vision and the Grievance. The Vision is a future ideal scenario (for US conservatives, this is full democracy, an unimpeded economy, and opportunity for all; for Islamists, it is the society as it was with Mohammed). The Grievance is a present-time, frustrating impediment to The Vision (For US conservatives, this might be the Georgian 17 yr old boy and 15 yr old girl who enjoyed oral sex, but he got 10 yrs. For Islamists, it might be the recent Dubai Film festival, with Muslim women wearing beautiful, revealing dresses). This Vision-Grievance template works for every movement from neo-nazis to boy scouts. The catastrophe for the US left has been the death of their Vision, the socialist paradise. They still have many grievances (Big Oil, economic inequities, inadequate welfare, etc), but without the Vision, they are defensive and hostile. The Cindy Sheehans, John Kerrys, etc., are angry because their life-long Vision is dead. Socialism failed, wherever it was implemented. The moral turpitude, the wobbly high-grounding, the aimless reasoning, the constant whining, betray the permanent lack of direction, the frustrated malaise of a dying political philosophy
Posted by: DemocracyRules at December 18, 2006 09:01 PM (+WNUd)
the Repubs won Congress in 94. You might want to read up on that one.
So... are taking bets that now the Dems have both houses the budget will
go down because I would dearly love to get in on some of that action.
Posted by: Randman at December 18, 2006 09:07 PM (Sal3J)
Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at December 18, 2006 09:21 PM (bLPT+)
The level of violence in Iraq is Underreported by the Establishment Media? It is the only thing reported, you twit. It's also exaggerated beyond all rational belief, but you peddle it as irrefutable fact.
You've inadvertantly confirmed Danneskjold's reflection about cognitive impairment with your retarded comments.
Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at December 18, 2006 09:48 PM (bLPT+)
Are you capable of anything other than lying? Your "Lancet" strained fatality figures were refuted as nonsense the day they were propagated.
A leftist swallows the multy culty, politically correct, conformist, big brother fantasies of Marxism hook, line, and sinker--usually without being aware that those empty slogans were concocted in Stalin's Soviet Union to control the people and murder dissidents.
A "rightist" is how the left describes anybody to the right of Michael Moore.
Only 70 million people out of a population of 300 million voted in the last election. Your claim that 56% of Americans voted for the Dhimmiecrats is leftie math at it's best. The butchers Lenin and Stalin would be proud. Did you get that figure from the Establisment Media you're defending?
Leftism is based 100% on hatred for the other and power fantasies, which is why the Marxists were able to recruit so many "useful idiots" like yourself. They're still doing it.
Posting comments about killing leftists who are destroying our country from within is not the same as hating everybody who disagrees with you, which is what leftists do.
"Cognitively impaired" indeed. Not onlyt for being stupid enough to buy into Soviet claptrap, but because you think you can convince rational people to turn to the dark side with crude, easily exposed lies.
Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at December 18, 2006 10:18 PM (bLPT+)
Clearly, both ideas are devoid of logical support outside of ideal conditions not found in the real world.
I dare anyone from the left to prove either of these ideas really work. When you fail, which you will, it will establish the fact of leftist mental failure.
We can keep it as simple as that.
USA, all the way!
Posted by: Michael Weaver at December 19, 2006 12:22 AM (2OHpj)
I am skeptical of leftists as i know their motives are not the truth.
Malkin has "shown that she doesn't care for truth and/or logical thinking so many times you just can't count."
The only reason a leftist would accuse Malkin of this is because leftists practise exactly what they accuse her of.
it's amazing how much leftists hate commentators like Malkin, Coulter etc not to mention Fox News, yet in the grand scheme of things they have small audiences. i guess leftists are most upset because they are being exposed for what they are and not allowed to lie freely.
Get bent leftists.
Posted by: Mathewk at December 19, 2006 05:33 AM (pVHqF)
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at December 19, 2006 09:34 AM (oC8nQ)
it's twice as bad as Washington DC. This was not a parody, this was an
actual post on Powerline.
See, Nikolay, I took a quote of YOURS, and explained how it exemplified the problem - you think there are 60 mutilated bodies a day turning up, because of the lies fed to you by the AP.
Then you come back with the above quote, and try to say I'm no different from the powerline guys. Of course, I (and I don't think anybody on this site) claim Baghdad is twice as bad as Washington DC (I'm mean - where are the Iraqis going to get someone corrupt as Marion Barry?!).
Way to go dumbass, you just proved my point in the predecessor thread about leftists' obsession (or perhaps it merely reflects the ceiling on their intellect) with viewing everyone to their right as one monolithic entity...
Posted by: wooga at December 19, 2006 11:01 AM (t9sT5)
Well, it is a mental disorder, isn't it? So of course they are incapable of logical argment. They operate from emotions, from the gut, not from the mind. They FEEL it and then try to support it rationally, with the predictable results. That's why they call us heartless, because we don't feel it, we think it.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at December 19, 2006 11:11 AM (8e/V4)
Leftist Cognition: Iraq is a nightmarish quagmire filled with countless atrocities and its all Bush's fault.
Conflicting Cognition: Stories of Iraqi atrocities are greatly exaggerated or completely fabricated by the MSM.
Modified Belief: The media is allowed to fabricate stories about atrocities in Iraq because accuracy is irrevelant as long as it shows that Iraq is a quagmire.
Examples:
"what would be the reason for inventing the story about six atrocious killings in a city where there's a daily harvest of sixty mutilated bodies anyway."
"I fail to see the importance of the 6 burning sunnis. 3-4000 others died that month many described as 'showing signs of being tortured'"
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at December 19, 2006 11:31 AM (oC8nQ)
Posted by: osamabinthere at December 20, 2006 04:12 AM (ZxuJ4)
You are much mightier than we are. Your intellect is astounding, your wit is amazing, your wisdom is astonishing.
Yes, and shit tastes good. Fucking retard.
Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at December 22, 2006 07:05 AM (abVz3)
You would know! It's flying out of your mouth everytime you open it. My point has been proven. Any insult from you is a huge compliment!
Posted by: osamabinhiding at December 22, 2006 02:04 PM (ZxuJ4)
As Robert Conquest said, "[N]ot even high intelligence and a sensitive spirit are of any help once the facts of a situation are deduced from a political theory, rather than vice versa."
Posted by: MnZ at December 22, 2006 06:14 PM (V1Zx3)
Don't bother to check back on this thread. You're too busy hiding from the facts.
Either that, or you're hunting down the elusive "Jamil Snark Hussein."
Good luck with that, shit for brains.
Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at December 24, 2006 02:25 AM (abVz3)
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