April 19, 2005
Since When is 2,000 Years of Tradition Radical?
Andrew Sullivan is an idiot. Period.
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Jeff G sums up my thoughts exactly:
Now, I’m no Catholic—and I ain’t really religious—but I suspect the point of following a religion in the first place is to actually believe in the thing. And so were I gay, and you decided from your perspective as a Catholic that because I put my thingie into the Devil’s slot, I will burn in a lake of fire for eternity, that’s cool by me—just so long as you don’t drop a stone wall on me in order to hasten the process.And while Andrew Sullivan calls 2000 years of tradition 'radicalism....
Saudis Give 14,200 Lashes for 'Gay Wedding' Party
John Aravosis and Michael Rogers ruin the lives of gay Republicans
Saudis behead two more gay men
10,000 Reward Offered for Proof Gannon Had Gay Sex Top Officials
The Prime Minister of Malaysia Gets Jail Time for Sodomy
Zanzabar Gives 25 years for gay sex
Posted by: Rusty at
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"Since When is 2,000 of Tradition Radical?"
Since never. But the Left has taken to calling traditional values "radical" and "extremist", etc., in what turns out to be more of the projection and word games the Left is famous for.
They hate, so they call their opponents "haters". They're radical, so they call their opponents radicals and extremists.
It's just projection. Watch for it.
Since never. But the Left has taken to calling traditional values "radical" and "extremist", etc., in what turns out to be more of the projection and word games the Left is famous for.
They hate, so they call their opponents "haters". They're radical, so they call their opponents radicals and extremists.
It's just projection. Watch for it.
Posted by: Carlos at April 19, 2005 08:24 PM (1MpEr)
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Zanzabar? I didn't think they called it that anymore...
Posted by: Mr. K at April 19, 2005 08:25 PM (j86Bg)
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It's Zanzibar, which belongs to Tanzania. They still call it that, and this uncultured, ignorant prole has been there. Nice place.
Posted by: Carlos at April 19, 2005 08:31 PM (1MpEr)
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Prole?! Good to see you are on your toes.
Posted by: Mr. K at April 19, 2005 08:37 PM (j86Bg)
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Yeah, but have you ever seen the movie "The Road to Zanzabar"?
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at April 19, 2005 08:38 PM (JQjhA)
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No, and I thought is was some kind of disco place that went out of business.
Posted by: Mr. K at April 19, 2005 08:41 PM (j86Bg)
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Mr. K, according to our Lefty friends on this blog only the "proles" support Bush.
Posted by: Carlos at April 19, 2005 08:42 PM (1MpEr)
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Dude, it was a Bob Hope / Bing Crosby movie!
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at April 19, 2005 08:45 PM (JQjhA)
Posted by: TC-LeatherPenguin at April 19, 2005 08:49 PM (kiH79)
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Since it makes no sense that lefties say proletariat follow Bush, so it must be true!
I can't say I have seen that movie. But I like Bob and Bing.
I can't say I have seen that movie. But I like Bob and Bing.
Posted by: Mr. K at April 19, 2005 08:55 PM (j86Bg)
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hey, go checkout the pothole I found under a house last week...I am working on that blog, still a computer caveman.
Posted by: Mr. K at April 19, 2005 08:57 PM (j86Bg)
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And by potholes you mean pot holes!!
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at April 19, 2005 09:05 PM (JQjhA)
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Or pot hoes.
Posted by: greyrooster at April 19, 2005 10:14 PM (K/qjk)
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Zanzibar!
Sure, you have your Bing Crosby and Bob Hope "Zanzibar" references, you old farts. I'll take my Tenacious D "Zanzibar" reference anyday of the week.
"What's you favorite posish? That's cool be me it's not my favorite but I'll do it for you.
What's your favorite dish? I'm not gonna cook it but I'll order it from Zanzibar!"
Song: F**k Her Gently.
Sure, you have your Bing Crosby and Bob Hope "Zanzibar" references, you old farts. I'll take my Tenacious D "Zanzibar" reference anyday of the week.
"What's you favorite posish? That's cool be me it's not my favorite but I'll do it for you.
What's your favorite dish? I'm not gonna cook it but I'll order it from Zanzibar!"
Song: F**k Her Gently.
Posted by: Jack "Redcorn" M. at April 20, 2005 01:35 AM (1W1ap)
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Zanzibar? Is that what the Turks called it before it was Constantinople?
Posted by: Leopold Stotch at April 20, 2005 07:48 AM (R3z2X)
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"Since When is 2,000 of Tradition Radical?"
I like the story of the pope that was elected at age 18 and turned the vatican into party central. Thats some tradition! from around the first millenium.
Anyone who tries to pin ratzinger on 2000 years of tradition better try to understand what actually happened in those 2000 years.
"Since When is 2,000 of Tradition Radical?"
I like the story of the pope that was elected at age 18 and turned the vatican into party central. Thats some tradition! from around the first millenium.
Anyone who tries to pin ratzinger on 2000 years of tradition better try to understand what actually happened in those 2000 years.
Posted by: actus at April 20, 2005 07:49 AM (0HUw1)
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Actus,
I'm not Catholic, and what you cite is one of the reasons for that, but when Popes (or any one else) don't live up to the rules or traditions, this does not mean the traditions or rules don't have continuity.
I'm not Catholic, and what you cite is one of the reasons for that, but when Popes (or any one else) don't live up to the rules or traditions, this does not mean the traditions or rules don't have continuity.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at April 20, 2005 08:00 AM (JQjhA)
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Were you gay and a Catholic and you really believed in it, you would stop living the gay lifestyle. If you were an alcoholic and a Mormon and really believed in it, you would never drink again. It is all a matter of believing in it.
Here's what I don't understand: So, you believe that your religion is right. We'll assume that for argument's sake. So, how could you disagree if the Pope or your minister, your Rabbi, or other pertinent religious leader says. In a poll on CNN.com, "56 percent, said they were bothered by the pope's opposition to birth control." Not to single out Catholics (in essense, I guess, that is exactly what I am doing although it is indicitive of a trend in many churches), but more than half disagree with the church in a matter of doctrine. What I am trying to say is that churches, as opposed to being filled with believers, are overwhelmingly filled with people who don't really believe. If you really believe and the Pope says to do it you will do it. I am not trying to criticize the churches, themselves, but the people who sometimes frequent them. I have a friend who likes to say, "You need to meet some gay people, be friends with someone gay." I do know gay people and that doesn't change my view. Also, it God is in control of your church and you lose a leader the doctrine shouldn't change. The leader is just telling us God's doctrine. It is not the leader's doctrine. I just don't understand this liberal Pope, conservative Pope crap. If God has the way he wants it, it is not the leader's views that matter. If the views of your church change everytime someone dies, there's a good chance the leaders of your church set the rules, not God, and he's off in someone elses church.
Here's what I don't understand: So, you believe that your religion is right. We'll assume that for argument's sake. So, how could you disagree if the Pope or your minister, your Rabbi, or other pertinent religious leader says. In a poll on CNN.com, "56 percent, said they were bothered by the pope's opposition to birth control." Not to single out Catholics (in essense, I guess, that is exactly what I am doing although it is indicitive of a trend in many churches), but more than half disagree with the church in a matter of doctrine. What I am trying to say is that churches, as opposed to being filled with believers, are overwhelmingly filled with people who don't really believe. If you really believe and the Pope says to do it you will do it. I am not trying to criticize the churches, themselves, but the people who sometimes frequent them. I have a friend who likes to say, "You need to meet some gay people, be friends with someone gay." I do know gay people and that doesn't change my view. Also, it God is in control of your church and you lose a leader the doctrine shouldn't change. The leader is just telling us God's doctrine. It is not the leader's doctrine. I just don't understand this liberal Pope, conservative Pope crap. If God has the way he wants it, it is not the leader's views that matter. If the views of your church change everytime someone dies, there's a good chance the leaders of your church set the rules, not God, and he's off in someone elses church.
Posted by: Johnny at April 20, 2005 08:08 AM (cp2CN)
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"I'm not Catholic, and what you cite is one of the reasons for that, but when Popes (or any one else) don't live up to the rules or traditions, this does not mean the traditions or rules don't have continuity."
It means that if it wasn't traditionally done its not really tradition. I don't think that was the first or last pope to not quite live the way that ratzinger views the church as being.
It may be a few hundred years worth of tradition that ratzinger represents (he was in charge of the inquisition office, but different from the "traditional" one) but its not 2000 years.
It means that if it wasn't traditionally done its not really tradition. I don't think that was the first or last pope to not quite live the way that ratzinger views the church as being.
It may be a few hundred years worth of tradition that ratzinger represents (he was in charge of the inquisition office, but different from the "traditional" one) but its not 2000 years.
Posted by: actus at April 20, 2005 08:14 AM (0HUw1)
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Good point, Rusty. And the Church will last despite the evil that some men (and women) it do.
I like how the jerk in one article whines that the Church is "authoritarian." Imagine that! What, we can't all just vote on everything? (It's a hierarchy, moron. That's why it reflect the KINGDOM of God, not the democracy of God. Yeah, I remember Jesus asking the disciples to cast ballots...
In anoither article, a woman was crying that there can't be women priest because of Ratzinger. She should just blame God. The issue has already been settled infallibly by JPII. If she--supposedly a Catholic--had half a brain, she would know this. Join the Epicopal Church, lady. (Yeah, they're doing REALLY well, bending with the liberal winds.)
I like how the jerk in one article whines that the Church is "authoritarian." Imagine that! What, we can't all just vote on everything? (It's a hierarchy, moron. That's why it reflect the KINGDOM of God, not the democracy of God. Yeah, I remember Jesus asking the disciples to cast ballots...
In anoither article, a woman was crying that there can't be women priest because of Ratzinger. She should just blame God. The issue has already been settled infallibly by JPII. If she--supposedly a Catholic--had half a brain, she would know this. Join the Epicopal Church, lady. (Yeah, they're doing REALLY well, bending with the liberal winds.)
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 20, 2005 08:17 AM (x+5JB)
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Events like this bring out all the nuts in the church. Last night on Mathews I saw a Lesbian nun talking about the new Pope. Lesbian nun...hummmm. People must come to the faith, we can't change the faith to suite the life style of this world.
We all fall short of perfection, Popes, Nuns, Priests, Parents,Kids.
What we cannot do is demand that these short falls be accepted by the Church. Rather, we forgive them but demand change. We can't just change this faith to suite everyone or we have nothing.
I hope our new Pope continues to stand firm on conservative Catholic doctrine. To do so makes him a target for the MSM that hates this faith and what it stands for. It will be a very tough job.
To do the will of God and tell people the truth of the faith, not just what they want to hear is not a popular thing. 50% of German Catholics do not like this Pope. I'll bet those 50% are C/E Catholics
(Christmas and Easter) at best. Why cave in to the demands of those who show no disipline or respect for the faith.
My family has not missed a mass in 10 years,mabey 15. Went to mass last year on Sunday near Disneyland. I think too many people who have no disipline to attend mass, financially support the Church, and not put in time to administer it's programs have far too much say in the media about our Church.
Yeaterday in my office, I never saw so many Catholic experts rant about my faith. One based her rant on a book she was reading..yes, it was the Davinci code..This woman had not been to church in years yet was an expert on all things Catholic with her only reference book, this lousey novel.I thought I was going to puke.
Please great church, do not cave in to the likes of this woman I just mentioned.
We all fall short of perfection, Popes, Nuns, Priests, Parents,Kids.
What we cannot do is demand that these short falls be accepted by the Church. Rather, we forgive them but demand change. We can't just change this faith to suite everyone or we have nothing.
I hope our new Pope continues to stand firm on conservative Catholic doctrine. To do so makes him a target for the MSM that hates this faith and what it stands for. It will be a very tough job.
To do the will of God and tell people the truth of the faith, not just what they want to hear is not a popular thing. 50% of German Catholics do not like this Pope. I'll bet those 50% are C/E Catholics
(Christmas and Easter) at best. Why cave in to the demands of those who show no disipline or respect for the faith.
My family has not missed a mass in 10 years,mabey 15. Went to mass last year on Sunday near Disneyland. I think too many people who have no disipline to attend mass, financially support the Church, and not put in time to administer it's programs have far too much say in the media about our Church.
Yeaterday in my office, I never saw so many Catholic experts rant about my faith. One based her rant on a book she was reading..yes, it was the Davinci code..This woman had not been to church in years yet was an expert on all things Catholic with her only reference book, this lousey novel.I thought I was going to puke.
Please great church, do not cave in to the likes of this woman I just mentioned.
Posted by: Brad at April 20, 2005 08:48 AM (6krEN)
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 20, 2005 08:55 AM (x+5JB)
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I'm a compassionate conservative.
Posted by: Brad at April 20, 2005 09:06 AM (6krEN)
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Well, you still could have. But perhaps just on the book.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 20, 2005 09:15 AM (x+5JB)
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As a Catholic I'm glad we got a new Pope. I wish he had more charisma though. He appears to be struggling when he attempts a smile. Hopefully he'll be a quick study.
Posted by: greg at April 20, 2005 12:00 PM (/+dAV)
Posted by: Carlos at April 20, 2005 12:18 PM (tFXpR)
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Greg: He'll learn to smile better (but not too much--that would be weird). He'll have to keep a sense of humor with his tough job.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 20, 2005 12:30 PM (x+5JB)
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I agree. As I said in this post:
I said a couple of weeks ago about John Paul II:
The Pope treated the Catholic Canon, to which he was an enormous contributor, with respect and to a large degree the force of law. He did not seek wiggle room, did not alter the law to match the morality of the times, and did not seek to accommodate the wavering Catholic. Instead, he did what he should have done: stated the moral and theological position of the Church and said it is the duty of Catholics to conform to it, not the Church's duty to conform to them. . .
And this principle is no less true of the new Pope: he MUST and he SHOULD proclaim the position of the church in a forceful manner and ensure that the morality of the church remains strong. The Pope has no duty to change the Church's views to suit gay Catholics like Andrew Sullivan or Western commenters like Rema Rahman. The notion that adhering to the same 2,000+ year-old teachings on homosexuality, conception, value of life and marriage that form many of the underpinnings of Christendom means that the Pope is "doctrinaire" or "hardline" says more about the person who utters such nonsense than it does about the Pope or the Church. Similarly, complaining that the Pope does not tolerate dissent is pure foolishness: the Catholic Church is not a democracy and is not designed to be one. Jonah Goldberg delineates the universe of these asinine solipsists too narrowly when he claims that these reactions are a product of American left-wing media foolishness.
I said a couple of weeks ago about John Paul II:
The Pope treated the Catholic Canon, to which he was an enormous contributor, with respect and to a large degree the force of law. He did not seek wiggle room, did not alter the law to match the morality of the times, and did not seek to accommodate the wavering Catholic. Instead, he did what he should have done: stated the moral and theological position of the Church and said it is the duty of Catholics to conform to it, not the Church's duty to conform to them. . .
And this principle is no less true of the new Pope: he MUST and he SHOULD proclaim the position of the church in a forceful manner and ensure that the morality of the church remains strong. The Pope has no duty to change the Church's views to suit gay Catholics like Andrew Sullivan or Western commenters like Rema Rahman. The notion that adhering to the same 2,000+ year-old teachings on homosexuality, conception, value of life and marriage that form many of the underpinnings of Christendom means that the Pope is "doctrinaire" or "hardline" says more about the person who utters such nonsense than it does about the Pope or the Church. Similarly, complaining that the Pope does not tolerate dissent is pure foolishness: the Catholic Church is not a democracy and is not designed to be one. Jonah Goldberg delineates the universe of these asinine solipsists too narrowly when he claims that these reactions are a product of American left-wing media foolishness.
Posted by: The Monk at April 20, 2005 12:44 PM (dDKHD)
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Monk: Regarding Sullivan, remember Jimmy Durante? "EVERYBODY'S trying to get in on the act!"
Dissidents need to follow the Church's teachings or seek somewhere else to whine. They think they're stockholders in a company or something. I don't remember seeing a suggestion box in church this morning. Sheesh.
Pax, Brother.
Dissidents need to follow the Church's teachings or seek somewhere else to whine. They think they're stockholders in a company or something. I don't remember seeing a suggestion box in church this morning. Sheesh.
Pax, Brother.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 20, 2005 12:56 PM (x+5JB)
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greg, he's very conservative. How can you happy about that.-Carlos
"cause I'm a Conservative Catholic Libertarian. Go figure!
What church do you go to? Do they preach killing and hate?
"cause I'm a Conservative Catholic Libertarian. Go figure!
What church do you go to? Do they preach killing and hate?
Posted by: greg at April 20, 2005 01:46 PM (/+dAV)
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14,200 lashes for a gay wedding party. Is that with a wet noddle or the real thing?
Question: It has been 45 years since I was a member of the Catholic Church. Of course, I have a friend who says the Church is like the mafia. Once you're in, you're in. Only death or excommunication will get you out. If I remember correctly, The Cardinals are believed to be inspired by God when they vote for the pope. Is this Dogma true? I believe it is. If they don't believe God did a good job guiding the Cardinals during the selection then they don't believe Church Dogma. Church Dogma is also inspired by God. If they don't believe that the Pope is God's representative on earth and that God guided the selection then they shouldn't be members of the Church.
Question: It has been 45 years since I was a member of the Catholic Church. Of course, I have a friend who says the Church is like the mafia. Once you're in, you're in. Only death or excommunication will get you out. If I remember correctly, The Cardinals are believed to be inspired by God when they vote for the pope. Is this Dogma true? I believe it is. If they don't believe God did a good job guiding the Cardinals during the selection then they don't believe Church Dogma. Church Dogma is also inspired by God. If they don't believe that the Pope is God's representative on earth and that God guided the selection then they shouldn't be members of the Church.
Posted by: greyroostere at April 20, 2005 01:49 PM (aq8Ok)
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For me I would rather be a member of a Church with 10 true followers than a billion hypocrites.
Stay the course.
Stay the course.
Posted by: greyrooster at April 20, 2005 01:53 PM (aq8Ok)
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Greyrooster: As a baptised person, you have a "seal" upon your soul. You have succintly and eloquently stated the truth about how the pope is elected.
Yes, all whiners need to go join the Church of Feel-Good.
Yes, all whiners need to go join the Church of Feel-Good.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 20, 2005 02:22 PM (x+5JB)
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Rooster,
You and your 9 buddies are true believers of The Order of the Serpant. Don't let that rattlesnake bite you on the ass, you'd be a gonner.
You and your 9 buddies are true believers of The Order of the Serpant. Don't let that rattlesnake bite you on the ass, you'd be a gonner.
Posted by: greg at April 20, 2005 02:27 PM (/+dAV)
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Speaking of "The Road to Zanzibar"--Dorothy Lamour was a knock-out.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 20, 2005 02:40 PM (x+5JB)
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Bourbon: Succintly. Will have to look that one up. Far too focused on moments of bending to focus on English.
Amo, Amas, Amat, Amamus, Amantis, Amant. Mesaray ature tu'es Omipotens Da'us. Et di me'tis pecatis tu'es perducatay ad vi tem e ter nam. Trying to remember. So long ago. Strange how it comes back to you after 45 years.
Greg: I burn. Answer my other post you lying heathen.
Amo, Amas, Amat, Amamus, Amantis, Amant. Mesaray ature tu'es Omipotens Da'us. Et di me'tis pecatis tu'es perducatay ad vi tem e ter nam. Trying to remember. So long ago. Strange how it comes back to you after 45 years.
Greg: I burn. Answer my other post you lying heathen.
Posted by: greyrooster at April 20, 2005 07:19 PM (aq8Ok)
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Johnny: I met a gay person one time in a movie theater in San Francisco when I was 13. Near killed the bastard. He didn't know I had more than one sticker on me.
Of course, now is San Francisco they would arrest the 13 year old for assault.
In my late teens our football team used to go down to the Castro district to practice hitting.
Now they call it gay bashing. Back then, if they approached you, anything was fair.
Ah for the good ole days.
Of course, now is San Francisco they would arrest the 13 year old for assault.
In my late teens our football team used to go down to the Castro district to practice hitting.
Now they call it gay bashing. Back then, if they approached you, anything was fair.
Ah for the good ole days.
Posted by: greyrooster at April 20, 2005 07:31 PM (aq8Ok)
Posted by: Collin Baber at April 20, 2005 08:39 PM (FV4oJ)
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The clap. Pen yo mama up.
Posted by: greyrooster at April 20, 2005 09:23 PM (aq8Ok)
Posted by: Collin Baber at April 20, 2005 09:28 PM (FV4oJ)
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Ref: William S. Burroughs
Deep in the stagnant, churning bowels of Scott?s White House Briefing Room, the unholy tension began to build. Tormented by sweat-breaking revelations and squeezed tightly on all sides, Jeff?s bald head squirmed side to side, desperately fighting back against the constricting maneuvers of angry protestations. The intensity of the flagrant, scandalous behavior became too great to for him bear. He couldn?t hold it back any longer. Losing control, his life story spasmodically surged forth as he was ripped out of the place, spraying the seedy news on the publicly exposed back of the entire Administration.
Deep in the stagnant, churning bowels of Scott?s White House Briefing Room, the unholy tension began to build. Tormented by sweat-breaking revelations and squeezed tightly on all sides, Jeff?s bald head squirmed side to side, desperately fighting back against the constricting maneuvers of angry protestations. The intensity of the flagrant, scandalous behavior became too great to for him bear. He couldn?t hold it back any longer. Losing control, his life story spasmodically surged forth as he was ripped out of the place, spraying the seedy news on the publicly exposed back of the entire Administration.
Posted by: Collin Baber at April 21, 2005 04:00 AM (FV4oJ)
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Collin: Burroughs in the morning is not good. Or anytime.
Greyrooster: I'm still thinking about what you typed yesterday. What I meant is that you, out of the Church for 45 years, understand and articulated the electoral process better than many Catholics still "in" the Church. Thank you.
Corpus Domini nostri Jesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeternam. Amen.
Greyrooster: I'm still thinking about what you typed yesterday. What I meant is that you, out of the Church for 45 years, understand and articulated the electoral process better than many Catholics still "in" the Church. Thank you.
Corpus Domini nostri Jesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeternam. Amen.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 21, 2005 07:08 AM (x+5JB)
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Dear YBP,
To be able to write like Burroughs did would be a dream come true. His style is so hard to emulate.
To be able to write like Burroughs did would be a dream come true. His style is so hard to emulate.
Posted by: Collin Baber at April 21, 2005 07:27 AM (fufbw)
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"His style is so hard to emulate."
Try lots of drugs.He did!
Great Scott, Collin. You like the Beats?
Try lots of drugs.He did!
Great Scott, Collin. You like the Beats?
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 21, 2005 08:21 AM (x+5JB)
45
Hermanos Baber don't believe in Drugs.
Posted by: Collin Baber at April 21, 2005 06:27 PM (FV4oJ)
46
Collin: Please translate.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 21, 2005 06:44 PM (QSIH2)
Posted by: Collin Baber at April 21, 2005 08:54 PM (FV4oJ)
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