1 >>>>The ACLU claims that the new law could prevent convicted sex offenders from attending church

roflmao! yeah, like the ACLU cares if somebody can't go to church.

2 If you're out of prison, you should be a free man. This kind of ordinance is patently against the spirit of a rational justice system.

Just shoot the bastards, if they can't fix themselves. This half-free/half-not kind of arrangement is not only against any sort of reasonable response to a crime, but letting such people back out only gives them another opportunity to molest kids.

Put it this way: If you have a mental disorder where getting near little old ladies gives you the irresistable urge to mug them, what is the point in letting you out of prison, and then saying you have to stay 1,000 feet from any nursing homes?

3 Also, technically, if they're so mentally ill that they have to be watched over by the gummit, don't they at least belong in a mental facility?

Not, you know, 1,001 feet from a playground?

4 Weird - I agree with MiB.

Bluto - you should know that laws like this are virtually identical to ones reference firearms. Believe the NRA is involved in an oddly similar case reference the 1000 ft crap.

Either way - both are a dumb approach to often serious problems.

5 I too think that MkB has a point, but restrictions on sex offenders aren't the only lifelong penalties that criminals face.

For instance, felons can't vote or legally own firearms. Society never completely forgives some crimes.

6 Bluto as usual your blanket covering statements are not entirely correct. Felons are able to vote, in most states after they have finished their supervised release (parole). In some states they are never able to recover their right to vote, The total in jail or on parole is now just under 4% of the population. I wasn't able to find a figure on the total disenfranchised but it is probably some multiple of that like 2x or4x. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/correct.htm Oh and Bluto I noticed that AFTER I got banned from posting comments on your site a total of only one comment was posted. Was I the only one who bothered to comment ?

7 I disagree with that stuff, too. Punish them appropriately - and so they don't forget, instead of this namby-pamby prison stuff, where you pay them to loaf, exercise and fraternize with other criminals - and then turn them loose. Once you're done being punished, you should be done being punished.

8 The ACLU is the best defense that any radical terrorist or pervert could affford and its HQ are in HANOI ON THE BAY right here in california SAN FRANCISCO

9 John Ryan is factually correct about felons and voting. In fact, only six backwards states deny felons the right to vote for life. Imagine--you break the law at 18, you get out of prison at 19, you live 60 years without ever breaking the law again, become a minister, serve in the military...whatever--and can never vote again. When I explain this to Europeans, they look at me like I come from an incredibly backwards country.

Also--on the sex offender issue: I'd favor the law over the ACLU, depending on how they define sex offender. If it is very tightly defined to apply to true pedophiles, I'd favor it. But so many of these laws cover people who were caught having sex in the back seat of a car (public indecency, public nudity, sodomy, etc) or streaking (I knew kids who had offical sex offender status from streaking--should they not be able to walk within 1000 feet of a school? Even though their records were expunged within a year, for year they had to report in...crazy) Urinating in public? If anyone on this blog comments section is innocent of outdoor sex, urinating outdoors, streaking, skinnydipping, then fine. I doubt it.

Also--sometimes people get SO status for something that we might think is a mistake, but they are no threat. There was a famous case of a man of 19 who had consensual sex with a 16 year old, then married her two years later. But in the interim, her mom started criminal proceedings for statutory rape. He was clearly guilty. He was convicted. So he has to report as an SO, for what he did with the wife who lives with him.

These laws are far too broad in most states. Narrowly targeted at true pedophiles, I don't think they do any harm, and might do some marginal good.

10 The ACLU claims that the new law could prevent convicted sex offenders from attending church or going to work

Or maybe he'd want to go to a mosque. After all was not Mohammed also a pedophile?

11 I'm no expert but I don't think these freaks are every "cured" of this stuff. Just because they've done their time doesn't mean they're not still a danger to kids. They need to be kept as far away from kids as possible. If that inconveniences them in any way, well that too fckin bad.

12 I can go back to many posts on this blog where adult women took sexual advantage of male children. The response from most of the regulars here was something like “ wish that had happened to me”
The reason these predators feel free to molest OUR kid is that we don’t punish them.
Lock these freaks (male or female) up for life for molesting a child (under 1 . I realize I am in a dream world and this will never happen. Even conservatives get a hard on over a 40 year old woman on a 12 year old kid. Sick bastards.

We get what we deserve, we let these pervs off with a few months and they go out an ruin another kid’s life.
Society really challenges me here. I am a Catholic who does not believe in abortion or the death penalty. But what is a good man to do when a child molester gets off again and again? If my kid male or female were molested by one of these people I think it might be my duty to TCB. Don’t I have an obligation to protect my neighbors and friends from the sub human who molested my kids?
The libs and conservatives (which is shocking to me) in this country seem to insist on the right to prey on kids.
Makes me sick.

13 only six backwards states deny felons the right to vote for life. Imagine--you break the law at 18, you get out of prison at 19, you live 60 years without ever breaking the law again, become a minister, serve in the military

Did the Military issue them a waiver for that Felony Jd? because the Military doesn't allow Felons to join without one either.

Normally the only people I hear whining about not being able to vote because of a felony, is liberals with their felony possession of Marijuana charge...


You are correct in respect to the SO status that sets restrictions that pertain to proximity to children, should only apply to convicted child molesters.

14 "If you're out of prison, you should be a free man. This kind of ordinance is patently against the spirit of a rational justice system."

The best thing I can do here is to quote Theodore Dalrymple:

"When prisoners are released from prison, they often say that they have paid their debt to society. This is absurd, of course: crime is not a matter of double-entry bookkeeping. You cannot pay a debt by having caused even greater expense, nor can you pay in advance for a bank robbery by offering to serve a prison sentence before you commit it. Perhaps, metaphorically speaking, the slate is wiped clean once a prisoner is released from prison, but the debt is not paid off."

In a way though I agree with some here. Sexual predators and child molesters are never reformed. They just grow to be old offenders and the system is too easy to scam and skip out on. Letting them out never works.

And while we're insisting on not using "blanket statements", states which rescind a felon's right to vote or bear arms also have a process by which they can have their rights restored.

I have a friend much like jd described. A guy I hired to work anyway because he was honest about it and his probation officer confirmed that he told the truth. At 19 he had consentual sex with a 16 year old girl. The girl's parents pressed charges and he spent a year in prison and had to register as a sex offender afterwards. I think that's wrong too. But ... after a few years of a clean life he was able to have that status removed by a judge who used common sense and rationality after reviewing his case. There is always recourse so our system is not totally un-forgiving. It's unfortunate that he had to go through that, but he was able to get it fixed.

15 dave, good point. It's only a hypothetical not referring to any specific case.

and Oyster, yes, states have processes so people get their voting rights back. But the problem is, some of them are really arcane/difficult. Some require legislation in the state house. Some require governor's action.

A lifetime ban on voting seems absurd.

16 Regarding the 19 year old who had "consensual sex" with the 16 year old. Legally, it's not possible to have "consensual sex" with a minor under the age of consent.

jd, is the guy really reformed, or is he compounding his original crime by continuing a relationship with a girl who was too immature to make the original decision to start a relationship with him?

17 Sorry guys - this is about the 1000 ft. schools/etc approach to to solving a "problem". Its not a solution and serves no purpose except BS for the public.

The reason this upsets me is that this type of approach/solution is being applied and advocated in other areas too - notably municipal gun control laws with some serious potential ramifications.

18 I stand corrected, DPB, your definition of consensual is correct. I don't know the case personally, so I don't know the answer.

I will say that, as per the other thread here on this, that such marriages were not at all uncommon in our national past. Many a 14 year old girl was married on the American frontier, and in other parts of our country well into the 20th century. Feminists (who got the age raised in a coordinated campaign) argued that this was abusive. I tend to agree, but it's important to acknowledge this is a moving target. I also don't think a 19 year old who has sex with a 16 year old is a "sex offender" in the same way that a 45 year old who has sex with a ten year old (actually, ANYONE who has sex with a ten year old). When I was 19, I certainly would have dated some 16 year olds. Unfortunately, I was too busy getting turned down by women my own age...

19 jd, I'm of the mind that if a felon wants his/her rights back he/she should have to work for it and prove they are a benefit to society rather than the detriment they've been in the past. Serving a prison sentence does not mean they are reformed and prepared to make sound decisions which affect the lives of others. Especially repeat offenders. If the system by which they can regain certain rights is "arcane/difficult" it should be addressed by state legislators and reformed. The answer is not to just say "Well, it's too hard, so let's abolish it." And again, federal entities are trying to wrest states' rights from them with this issue. And incidentally, what of those felons who were convicted of voter fraud? Should they be allowed to vote again?

20 Actually, that's a good idea--I think people who break election laws should never be allowed to vote again. I'd vote for that law.

It troubles me, though, that most of the remaining ban on felon voting states are Southern states with a history of both racist judicial systems AND clever ways to deny voting rights to blacks. Let me give you one example of how that works against black rights even today. Studies show that black and white youth smoke marijuana at about the same rate. But blacks are about 5 times more likely to be criminally penalized for teenage marijuana use. There are MANY complex reasons for this (greater police surveillance, income inequality, etc.). But the result frequently is a higher rate of felony convictions among blacks than whites for this. Moreover, it helps create a climate of fear, which many unscrupulous republicans (and a few Dems) have exploited in elections going back several decades. They hand out fliers the week of the election "Don't forget to vote on Nov 7th!!! Remember to clear all your parking tickets before voting if you don't want to get arrested!"

I don't think former felon voting is the most important problem in our electoral system (it's partisan gerrymandering in my opinion). But I'd support a federal amendment to take away the right of states to ban felon voting (actually, you wouldn't need that, you could do it by statute for federal elections). I'm a pretty strong federalist (for example, I oppose the gay marriage ban on federalist grounds) but when it comes to federal elections, the feds should make the rules if the states can't handle it. And those six have shown they can't.

21 JD: Because the black teenagers are also selling it.

22 The study I saw controlled for users and dealers, but even assuming it didn't, I would be surprised if such a stark difference arose from a single cause. Like most examples of racial disparity, it is probably multi-causal.