1 Well, here we go, back to the old Arab tradition of corruption, bribery, and betrayal. Arabs do not deserve to mingle with civilized people, or even live on the same planet.

2 You act surprised....

You realize there were no WMD?

You realize that John Lewis, the FBI's deputy assistant director for counterterrorism said in Senate testimony the biggest terrorist threats in the US were:

1) Animal Rights Activists
2) Environmental Activists

Which certainly explains why we need to short circuit FISA don't it?

listening to uncritical supporters of this administration reminds me of this old joke:

Q. What do you say to a woman with two black eyes?
A. Nothing. She obviously doesn't listen.

3 Wow, the moonbats are up early!

Anyway, I'd be guessing that some of these persons are under close observation. The doesn't mean that they can't just slip away, but since these are scientists, not terrorists, they're likely to go where their services are needed. I doubt any one of them are the true "doctor evil".

Background Noise,
Do you even know what you're talking about or going off the playlist? What is known to have occurred was acts of data colection (the likes of which any self respecting telemarketer would be embarassed by) and wire tapping (not phone tapping) that took place between entities communicating internationally. (Yes, this is 100% legal even without a court order) Nothing else has been proven to my knowledge. Do you have some secret stash of information you're not sharing?

4 Obviously, Background Noise is about 16 years old. Either that or he's a 50 year old 'hacker' living in his mother's basement off of Hot Pockets and Mountain Dew. They're the only ones with 'cool' names that use numbers or bastardized English in their handle. I'm only surprised that he didn't spell it 'noyz'.

Dr. Germ's life isn't worth a plugged nickel walking down the streets of Baghdad. Justice will be served quietly and violently by the survivors if she sticks her head up out of the hole she'll be living in.

5 Don't feed the trolls.

According to the article linked, some of them have left Iraq already.

6 Actually, I find this noisy idiot kind of amusing, because he's as stupid as greg, and there's none of the cut-n-paste crap. I need guys like this to remind me why killing liberals will be a humanitarian act when TSHTF.

7 slug,

I'm going with the 50 year old hacker. He may be John Ryan with a new name, since I have never seen the two post simultaneously. Irregardless, he has now become our resident troll.

8 As of this moment, I have been unable to get further information beyond the original story.

This is an AP story whose source is AN UN-NAMED IRAQI LAWYER! Before accepting it lets get a little verification and some details Pllleeeeeaaassseee!

Loved the NYT Iranian tanker with the ballets story too!

9 I thought you were leaving the land of the ignorant Background Noise.
Can you fill in a little detail on your comment:

You realize that John Lewis, the FBI's deputy assistant director for counterterrorism said in Senate testimony the biggest terrorist threats in the US were:
1) Animal Rights Activists
2) Environmental Activists

How many people have they killed so far, and could you tell me how long they get to the three thousand people killed in September 11th.

How people with a brainstem post comments like that, I have no clue.

10 Also Background, you might accept the current media status quo of no WMD in Iraq, I think most of the people with an idea of B/W don't think that was totally the truth either.

11 Pity him. He and the entire left's argument is totally dependent on whether this NSA program targeted American citizens domestically with no connection whats so ever with AQ-9/11 etc.

And that's their problem - because otherwise the American people are gonna say - well duh!

No legs - and this could get really comical.

12 I would guess that these scientists would remain unemployed for some time to come. The countries of the Middle East are already awash in bio and chemical weapons, so it's not like their expertise are desperately needed. With Iran uping the ante with nukes, nuclear experts are the guys who'll be in demand. The report says that some of them have already left the country. If I had to speculate as to where they'll end up, I'd say either London or Paris.

13 I'm not accepting the story as true without further information.

14 Graeme hit the nail on the head, Dr. Germ will probably have a two bedroom council house, and a dole check from the U.K Government within the week.

15 You guys do realize this story has since "disapeared". No other outlet followed up and picked it up either ...

Given the proported subject matter, makes ya think - huh?

16 Has anyone read this story on LGF:
BEIRUT - Hezbollah member Mohammed Ali Hamadi has returned to Lebanon after being secretly released in Germany, where he was serving a life sentence for the 1985 hijacking of a TWA jetliner and killing of a US navy diver, Hezbollah and Lebanese security sources said Tuesday.
...
Commentators have speculated that Hamadi’s release may be connected to the freeing Sunday of German hostage Susanne Osthoff in Iraq. German authorities had already tried to use Hamadi as a bargaining chip in the late 1980s to secure the release of German hostages in Lebanon.

wow?

17 Yes - and it does look like a trade.

18 Dave,

You're right.... it's clear that you folks just don't believe or care that the crowd you act as cheerleaders for has been and will continue to lie to you.

Instead of wrapping your heads around that factoid, you protect your fragile little world with invective and hyperbole for anyone who dares to point out stuff that should be glaringly obvious to you... you're being played for suckers.

This NSA thing is only the latest in a series of problems. You honestly think Poindexter shut down TIA because it was of questionable legality? If you believe that, you probably think OJ and Michael Jackson are innocent too.

You want to reinforce each other's paranoid delusions go ahead... but you come across like battered housewives who keep making excuses for their drunk husband who beats the crap out them.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming already in progress.

19 1) nowhere near topic
2) battered housewife/drunk husband????
That's supposed to be some kind of definitive insult?
3) .... already in progress. Thank you

20 background:
Whenever you can dissect my points in a coherent manner, please, let me know.
If I wanted to hear babble; I would just buy a wino a jug of rum.

21 "Graeme hit the nail on the head, Dr. Germ will probably have a two bedroom council house, and a dole check from the U.K Government within the week"

I partially agree but I'm saying she had better not stick her head out in public for very long. There are still many in Iraq who are going to want her popped. People like her who walk around freely don't generally have a long lifespan no matter where they live. Arafat only lived as long as he did because Israel didn't want to make a martyr out of him. Dr. Germ isn't exactly the voice of the people and a fine Iraqi citizen would love to make a hero out of himself.

However, I don't think she'll wind up in the UK after terrorists hit their busses and a biological attack against the Underground was thwarted. I think France, Spain, or one of the other apologist nations will set her up with a nice retirement package.

22 slug

As far as I can tell, the story was bogus - and designed to make the new Iraqi Gov, the US military, the Administration and the whole war effort look stupid.

This happens often enough with current "reporting".

My question is " WTF! Why do some of you guys fall for this shit?"

23 hondo... since you asked for the name of the lawyer....

Badee Izzat Aref

And count on the story to get lots of play with a rebound when Tariq Aziz is released in the next couple of weeks.

Of course why believe anything that doesn't come from the mouth of US military right?

Whassat..... who? Lieutenant Colonel Barry Johnson ooh... he said what?


He said "the prisoners, considered senior members of the administration overthrown by US forces in 2003, posed no threat to security, were neither charged with crimes nor material witnesses and had no intelligence value. "

Still don't think you were lied to?

24 Badee I know

Aziz - alleged release

Details are slowly trickling out - what its starting to look like is "a few deals are being cut - business as usual".

You doubt some kind of under the table dealin' going on?
Then -
feel free to enlighten me why their "quiet" release
and removal from country.

25 I should have invested in Reynolds Aluminum and ALCOA long ago, because idiots like greg and noisy must spend hundreds of dollars a month on the stuff.

Hey noise, you're so stupid it's funny. Say something else.

26 Curious ...

If they surprisingly show up at Saddam and others trials as State's witnesses ...

... and start telling stories of life under Saddam thru other venues ...

Will you then dismiss them as CIA dupes?

27 I think BG is confused. There are plenty of sites that criticize Bush and the military from dawn to dusk, 24/7. We say here what we want, when we want, and do not have to answer to BG or any of his ilk. I've seen plenty of criticism of Bush and others here, so BG is wrong, nobody that I know on this site follows anyone lockstep.

No, there are more independent thinkers here than just about anywhere, that's why I comment here.

Now, back on topic, I think I'll wait and see how this one plays out. The release of these people wouldn't surprise me. Nothing does, even when BG criticizes the military for lying about something that he obviously agrees with. He's a stinker.

28 hondo,

Care to speculate who BG is under the pay of?

29 BG is self-deployed (intentional misspell if he's dense)

This story is breaking very slowly under the radar - the first report was an AP stringer dispatch which triggered the thread topic.

I know how stringers work (especially the AP) so I didn't accept it at face value without further verification.

It appears now to be true.

The way the AP presented it & BG read it (and sadly - others here interpreted) was with an automatic negative spin ... actually a kneejerk reaction depending on your persuasion.

BG & his ink want this to be an embarrassment for the war and the administration - but as of now I don't see how they can stretch that out of this. They will try though.

BG and his like believe the Iraqi government is nothing more than a puppet of the US and will do as it is told with real power held in Washington -

So why then did the US government release these prisoners? So to embarrass themselves?????

There is a deal going on here - strictly business - don't know any particulars ... to read it any other way would be naive and foolish. BG is welcome to it.

30 I don't need to want this to be anything... fact is that Aziz will NOT be testifying against Saddam, that the guy who headed their supposed nuclear program ....Humam Abd al-Khaliq? He was the guy who surrendered with camera and media present so there was no doubt he came in willingly and without any resistance. Anyway...he will probably be released soon too. So much for mushroom clouds, nuclear weapons programs, and smoking guns.

Not only aren't they charging these people with crimes alleged by Wolfie, Rummy, Bush & Co.... these guys aren't even Material Witnesses Of course, Rummy knew where the WMD were. When Wolfie gets called on his obvious bogus claims, he shrugs and says "I don't have to explain anything."

You guys want to pretend you weren't lied to fine. If it makes you feel better to call me names, fine. But spare me the crocodile tears for the men and women who have been thrown into that meat grinder while you cheered.

31 So, why were they released BG?

32 lol
Lefties like BG think that Iraq had no B/W programs, because they get their experience from hollywood movies like "The Rock", He probably thinks WMD have a big Skull & Crossbones on them too (along with "Handle with care" in Arabic.

33 BG

Bad intel? Hey, I heard of some real dozzies in the past. Not the first time and not the last. Multiple reasons actually given for Iraq - I can live with it.

Don't recall calling you any names - I typically tend to deliberately avoid that - not my style.

Last part - aaaahhhhh the soldiers ...

Thanks to the volunteer military system, which we thankfully returned to 30 years ago, the current military (from generals to Privates) is a reflection of our culture - or in this case - our cultural divide or some would say cultural war.

The rank and file are (to say lightly) are massively alien to you and that segment of the population you represent. Your concern for them is feigned whether war or peacetime - I know it and they know it.

They are a faceless entity to you, to be used as a tool in your evergoing agitprop. Even Iraq itself is tool to you - the "issue of the day" in a wide arcing drama of cultural performance art.

I do cry for soldiers - 'cause I do know them - as my friends, family, and now (after 28 years) as my sons and daughters. They have faces, phone numbers, addresses, hobbies, kids, dead batteries in winter, need a few bucks at the end of the month, etc. etc.

don't cry for us BG
you are a foreigner in your own land
We simply share the same borders

34 BG may be a foreigner period. I doubt he was born in the US. Perhaps so, but as hondo says, a stranger in a strange land.

35 hondo,

my comment re epithets was more a general one than particularly directed at you...

The responses are right there on the page (unless Howie feels compelled to sanitize things) so you don't have to take my word for it... look at what people are writing in "response" to what I write. Improbus is so wounded the only thing he can think of in response is to shoot me in the head...JC can't reply to what I say so he translates it into "Libspeak" props up a straw man, knocks it down and does a happy dance. jj wanders off into delusional paranoid musings about who/what/where/how I am and forgets the topic at hand.... greyrooster just throws feces around...Oyster pouts.... Howie deletes stuff that offends him or locks people out....Rusty denies his own writings.... and you think I'm crying for you? c'mon.... how much projection can one joint handle?

All in all a pretty sorry response to a single guy who wanders in and not only provides documentation when challenged, but hasn't said anything about you guys being the enemy.

I realize why the regulars here are so angry.... you are afraid. You are afraid of what you don't know. You are afraid you are wrong. You are afraid of losing whatever it is that you think you have. When people lash out in blind anger they are terrified. Ever tried to rescue someone who thought they were drowning? Sometimes you have to punch the motherfucker in the face.

The difference here is as much as folks flail... I don't have to worry about being pulled down with you.

I don't expect you to believe this but for the record the soldiers are not nameless or faceless to me. There's plenty of military service in my family. I've got family buried at Arlington. I know people deployed. People with kids deployed. I know a divorced mom who lost her only child a few weeks before Thanksgiving in 2003. How do you set that table?


I learned a friend just sent her 18 year old off to the Army. He wants to be Special Forces. There's plenty of military service in that family. So far there are 14 left of the original 50. I think he has even odds to be one of the last 4 or 5 to get through. He is ready. His dads a doc. He don't worry about his son being killed. He knows it could be worse. He could be maimed. I look at him and wonder how such a beautiful boy would find the courage to walk into a Starbucks missing an ear and so badly burned that little children would cry? I've seen that. Who do you feel worse for in that situation? The kid? Her parents? The guy? Or the girl behind the counter whose shaking so bad they have to help her at the register?

It took me awhile, but I learned the trick is you have to look past the disfigured face, to really make eye contact and relate to the person still inside. Then all the scars become a kind of mask they are wearing, but it's not who they are. Sometimes there is a moment when both of you forget about the scars.

I know more about mechanical limbs than I ever wanted to know. Those new German models with the computer chips so the limbs swing more naturally and save you 80% of the stress of standing up...

But don't kid yourself. I'm not crying for you. I don't have that much compassion. That's what makes the CPT 4 better men than me. They have that compassion. Compassion for people who blindly follow leaders regardless of the damage they do to themselves and everyone around them in the process.

Listening to the denizens of this place has been helpful to me. I am beginning to understand what Tom Fox was talking about when he said he wanted to reach a place "beyond anger and fear"... It's hard work. But I think it's the only way we get out of this alive.

Finally, to answer your most recent question: I think the reason they are releasing the high profile detainees is simply this: They don't have anything to charge them with. And if that is not a clue that you were lied to by the people who KNEW where the stuff was.... then you are no different than the battered spouse who pretends the guy beating the crap out her really cares for her, he just doesn't know how to show it.

10-7

36 Ah BG!

An evil government would never "acknowledge" a mistake. It would simple leave them in prison, "arrange evidence", or even ... an accident.

It would not (dare say) quietly "slip them out of the country" - a country where many of their fellow citizens would just love to talk to them and give them presents like a tire necklace.

No one here is afraid - angry - Yes! So am I - we all manifest our anger differently though.

I know the left all too well! Absorbed in self-examination of their own fears and pathos - personalizing the "dangers" around them - eager to emote as a ritual requirement.

You define yourself by your fears - and have a need to believe that if you are afraid then others who disagree with you must be terrified.

They are not - sorry.

Your tone alternates and waivers. If it is an acknowledgement from me - or a hug you seek - it will not be forthcoming.

Oyster pouts?????

37 Sorry, email full, comments closed