1 Agent Brown says most of America hasn't pitched in enough, start the draft now and join the battle for Iraqi Freedom!

2 No Draft! In fact, lets end finally again Registration! No forced conscription!

3 The large percentage of idiots and cowards you get in the draft far outweighs any advantage in numbers.

4 Our veterans of Vietnam and Korea and WWII appreciate your views joe

5 Draftees have only ever fought at all because they knew they'd be stood up against a wall and shot, or spend half their lives in prison if they didn't serve. Army studies in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam show that only about 10% of any unit fought during any battle, excepting notably the all-volunteer units such as the Airborne, etc.. And old WW2 vet once told me that he, as a squad leader, had personally executed a coward, which is as it should be. You fight with your brothers, or you die.
This isn't to say that some draftees didn't fight, quite the contrary, many did, and earned honors, but most didn't want to be there, and just tried not to get killed. Any day, any battle, I'll take one man who wants to be there, rather than a hundred who don't. If someone doesn't have the balls to volunteer, I don't want them to burden me with their presence.

6 "veterans of Vietnam, Korea & WW2 ..." ?????

Do you realise John that volunteers made of a big portion (and the majority in some cases) in those conflicts?

Do you know that draftees were disportionally (significantly) represented in disciplinary actions, AWOLS, desertions, crimes etc.

There is a myth surrounding draftees that came out of WW2 - most were OK both others .... People like Studs Turkel helped build it - and glossed over the problems.

7 I can't believe Agent Smith started a thread that people are taking seriously.

8 Oh God! Your right!

9 John Ryan,

Why do you want to be a troll? You know damn well that things have changed since WWII. And yes, just like my father volunteered to go to Korea, MOST WWII soldiers volunteered to go to that war. You can't be as stupid as you seem. I personally think you are a liberal troll. My observation, but I think several others here have observed the same thing.

10 Yes, JJ, I think he is as stupid as he seems.

11 I'm sure you guys have seen on the news channels that this election is very different from the last two, the sunnis are participating, voting stations are being open for extra time, less blood and mayhem, even some insurgents are encouraging people to vote, some of them are even protecting polling booths.

It seems George Bush's 'stay the course' is paying off big time, even his opponents are admitting it. watch the death throes of alqaeda.

Thanks to the US Soldiers, Americans and their 'spine of tempered steel' president.

12 It was the draftees who were most at risk in Vietnam. They were the ones that bore the brunt of the fighting. Most people who volunteered for 3 years were not placed in infantry units. You are entitled to your own opinion about their performance while there. "Troll" perhaps. cheerleader no. Did my designation troll come from the post about how much money was lost on the movie The Alamo ? I apologize, I know people are often emotional about historic icons. About 9 million men served in the Armed Forces 1965-72 about 1/3 went to Vietnam. Of those that went only about 12% were combat veterans. 10% Fighting 90% in the rear with the beer. Sometimes it seems from war stories that the ratio should be reversed. http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2004217.asp

13 1965? I know the routine and motive for choice of date. Its 1961 and no wishful thinking or faded memory is ever going to change that.

Combat units had a very high percentage of volunteers. Its a cultural thing you probably can't understand or comprehend that.

Sorry, draftees were not the most at risk or bore the brunt of the fighting - but that is part of the mythology isn't it - along with things like higher percentage of minorities and poor. There are others some here are familiar with.

Where have I heard this all before?

Oh, force structure and distribution - best to leave what you don't understand alone.

I'm opposed to a draft - so have others here stated - but you? - what?

You want it both ways don't you - like Rangel huh - idolize it on one hand so you can attack it and the war on the other. Sorry John - no luck today.

14 Hey John, maybe you should tell my neigbor, the disabled veteran who volunteered for the Army, the Infantry, and Vietnam that he didn't serve. Moron.

15 maxie

Go to rusty's haiko thread and pick up your present before Goggle deep six's it!

16 IM & Joe: At last something we disagree on. The value of the draft. We are in totally opposite corners.
Do all military members want to fight? Or did they join for a job? Think back to your highschool and college days. Did the best of your class join the military? I worked for the military for many years. My wife retired last July after thirty years as a military officer. My son is a Capt. in the Marine Corps. I'm a ex Marine, both enlisted and Officer. My father was killed in 1943 as a pilot in the Army Air Corps. I know the military. I know them during peace time and war time. To me they are (1) Better during wartime. The Officers tend to spend more time on other things besides getting promoted.
(2) In serious conflict, our standing military allways gets its ass kicked until the draft kicks in. (Revolutionary war, war of 1812, WW1, WW2, Korea.
Think about Pearl Harbour, Kasserine Pass, etc:
Take a walk around Keesler Air Force Base as I did the other day. Unmarried black women with 3 out of wedlock kids, dressed in boots and fatigues do not make for a winner.
The draft gets mainstream America into the fray. And mainstream America cannot be beat in anything it gets serious about.
Besides, I take particular delite in seeing a liberal democrat shipping out with full pack. They get to do their part to ensure that the wonderful lifestyle we have here continues on. If we was to lose, what would they have to complain about. They become better citizens after getting up close and comfortable with what it takes keep it going.

17 Greyrooster has a point.

I'm a grandmother who has not served, but my family comes from a long line of men who have - Army, Air Force (my dad) and Marines - all the way back to the Revolutionary War. Some enlisted and others were drafted, yet, they all feel they learned a profound respect for what our country stands for, which they may not have without knowing what it is to serve proudly with their brothers.

Hell, even my husband served willingly, not drafted, and he's an Italian citizen. He is very proud of his service and loves America above his own Italy. That's why it absolutely disgusts me to see and hear natural American citizens denigrate our country.

18 Our first draft came a couple of years into the Civil War in the North. Prior to that, we still had significant force superiority but were getting the crap kicked out of us by the South.

The response of some was forced conscription for even more manpower in what appeared to be a losing effort. The true reality however was leadership in the field - when McClellan and his cronies were dumped everything changed - and the draft had little to do with it.

The draft was haphazardly enforced and had numerous "problems".

Much of what people know about the draft comes from Vietnam and the myths surrounding WW2. you would be surprised at the reality of it.

19 Wow, what a commotion! What I intended to convey was this. Right now, in this war, we do not need the draft, and if we had it, I believe a large number, but not neccessarity the majority of people drafted, would not have the motivation we need in this particular conflict. I believe we would capture a large number of drug users and unmotivated individuals in a draft. I also believe that the draft itself would cause a large number of people to turn against the war effort. And that's exactly the reason people like John Ryan and others of his ilk would like to see a draft.

In the case of a WWII type conflict there is no question the draft would be neccessary. I hope I clarified my original statement, but frankly, I didn't think that would be neccessary here, but I did forget about John Ryan. He is easy to forget.

20 Guess Mr Smith won by successfully steering everyone of topic. Point Smith.

21 I don't disagree with your Rooster, I just happen to see things differently. I think liberals should be the first to be drafted and sent to the front as cannon fodder, which is exactly what they're good for, but if faced with the choice of ten volunteers or a hundred draftees, I know who I would choose to stand with me. Any man that has to be coerced into fighting is a gutless wretch in the first place.

22 Agent Smith agrees with Greyrooster that our military needs to stop trying to fight this war with one hand tied around our balls. The draft will pump up the ranks with hundreds of thousands of red-blooded American troops are going to go over there to find those IED planting sons-of-bitches and clean those fucker terrorists' clocks once and for all. It is payback time.