October 25, 2005
Witness this excerpt from an Associatedantiamerican Press article concerning the Islamotard attack on the Palestine Hotel today:
But the toll among American service members killed in the Iraq war reached 1,997 with the announcement of a Marine killed Sunday during fighting in western Iraq.Since the beginning of 2005, at least 465 vehicle bombings, including suicide car bombs and vehicles exploded by remote detonations, have killed at least 2,250 people in Iraq.
Too bad these idiots lack any sense of historical perspective, much less decency.
The following are from The Chronology Of World War Two: The Day By Day Illustrated Record 1939-1945:
Killed in action or died of wounds: 11, 237,793
Wounded: 4,015,536
Captured or missing: 7,391,433
Civilian deaths: 35,240,523
The U.S.A. alone:
Killed in action, or died of wounds: 292,131
Wounded: 671,801
Captured or missing: 139,709
Civilian deaths: 6,000
Yes, you read that right. More American civilians died in WWII than have died in the GWOT, which has now gone on longer than WWII, and will continue for many years.
I could care less anymore if the MSM is anti-war or pro-war, but in struggles of freedom vs. tyranny, at least they could offer some balanced perspective.
Fat chance, that.
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They got their wish, the gleeful gibbering has begun:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - The American military death toll in the Iraq war reached 2,000 Tuesday with the announcements of three more deaths, including an Army sergeant who died of wounds at a military hospital in Texas and a Marine and a sailor killed last week in fighting west of Baghdad.The 2,000 mark was reached amid growing doubts among the American public about the Iraq conflict, launched in March 2003 to destroy Saddam Hussein's alleged weapons of mass destruction. None was ever found.
The media is doing its level best to demoralize this nation by ruthlessly tallying up the number of dead. They know that the historical knowledge of the average citizen is woefully inadequate. They feed on it, in an attempt to convince them that this war is Vietnam The Sequel.
Therein lies their folly. By assuming that you and me are too stupid to make any connection to the past, they beat the drum of despair.
They shriek 2000 dead!!!! For nothing!!!!!! No WMD!!!!!
Germany, Italy, Japan, Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, and Romania had no WMD, either, yet this country sacrificed 292,000 of its best and its brightest to defeat the Axis.
If the media is going to use the same tactics in this war that they used to help turn public opinion against the Vietnam war, by magnifying the bad while ignoring the good, then I believe it's up to us bloggers to use history in order to provide some balance to this misinformation.
This post was not about numbers, it was not about "playing bingo" with the dead. I did this post to provide a historical perspective as to what this country was once willing to pay in order to secure its freedom and continued existence. Without that perspective, we run the risk of letting the propagandists of the other side form the picture in people's minds of what this war is about.
And it is more than apt to compare this conflict with WWII. Islamofascism and Nazism are nearly identical in their respective quests. It's even apt to compare this conflict with Vietnam, given that both are rife with spectacular Allied military victories that are twisted and spun to make them seem like defeat.
We owe our knowledge of the truth about Vietnam to diligent historians. Militarily, the United States crushed the enemy. North Vietnam suffered over 1 million casualties in that war. That truth wasn't consumed by the pubic at the time, they ended up demoralized, and were unwilling to see the victory through to the end.
We no longer have the luxury of time, my friends. History needs to be written now, in the face of this hostile media, a political party that no longer stops playing at the waters edge, and a public that consumes it's news in 30 second sound bites.
Posted by: Vinnie at
08:07 PM
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Posted by: THANOS35 at October 25, 2005 12:31 AM (IgomX)
Posted by: Route Irish at October 25, 2005 02:32 AM (Eh9tH)
Suribachi rules.
an old exJarhead
Posted by: Rod Stanton at October 25, 2005 06:20 AM (R3FcZ)
Irrespective of the validity of your point, even if the count was twenty people it is a large price to pay.
Two thousand families lives will be changed forever, Husbands, Wives, Fathers, Mothers, Brothers and sisters will never be coming back, forget the numbers game large or small.
The question we have to ask is who is making their sacrifice less? the ones who continually count the numbers, and use those figures to warrant a complete pull-out leaving Iraqi's to be killed by the terrorists in their midst, not only undermining the mission the soldiers died for, but stealing the honor of those who died to complete it.
The point is, 2,000 or 2 dead soldiers we should make sure their sacrifice wasn't in vain.
Posted by: dave at October 25, 2005 07:27 AM (CcXvt)
Posted by: Fargus at October 25, 2005 08:00 AM (ts0WI)
Posted by: THANOS35 at October 25, 2005 09:12 AM (IgomX)
Posted by: john Ryan at October 25, 2005 09:21 AM (ads7K)
I had plenty to say about the anti-war link above too.
Posted by: Oyster at October 25, 2005 09:27 AM (fl6E1)
Posted by: Oyster at October 25, 2005 09:31 AM (fl6E1)
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 25, 2005 10:05 AM (0yYS2)
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 25, 2005 10:13 AM (rUyw4)
Posted by: Vinnie at October 25, 2005 10:29 AM (Kr6/f)
Posted by: THANOS35 at October 25, 2005 10:39 AM (IgomX)
I don't believe I missed the point of the post, indeed it is all too clear, I even said that the premise is correct, however the amount of soldiers killed "bingo" you're playing right now, only enforces the lefts opinion, it doesn't crumble it. Indeed they're using grim figures to justify an opinion. I'd rather not play the game.
Posted by: dave at October 25, 2005 11:12 AM (CcXvt)
Right on! Also note - we are not repeating the mistake of the past with the stupid obsession with enemy "body counts". The MSM hates this new approach.
Posted by: hondo at October 25, 2005 01:08 PM (ymtSt)
Posted by: Vinnie at October 25, 2005 02:17 PM (Kr6/f)
The fact is that liberals want America to lose. They love to see dead Americans on television because they think it legitimizes their opposition to Bush and all his policies, opposition which is founded in nothing more than hatred and a burning desire to avenge Clinton. Liberals should all be killed, because treason is the most unforgivable of crimes, and treason lives in the heart of every liberal.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 25, 2005 04:18 PM (0yYS2)
Posted by: Howie at October 25, 2005 09:24 PM (D3+20)
The point is that it's not the Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines complaining. It's an ignorant segment of the US population (distinct from the treasonous element who seek political gain by sabotaging the war effort). They require education. Vinnie is providing it.
By the logic of the anti-war crowd, we should not have declared war on Germany and Italy after Pearl Harbor, and every man who died in Europe "died for nothing".
Posted by: The Dread Pundit Bluto at October 25, 2005 09:44 PM (RHG+K)
As I said, I do not disagree with the point Vinnie made, however rationalizing dead vs. dead is not exactly productive, indeed "only" eighteen American soldiers died in Mogadishu, were they somehow less of a sacrifice?
To focus on the Leftist celebration of the 2000 "Grim Milestone" and then turn round and say "Well in WII more than that died in one day" is that a better rational?
My point is, it's a better argument to make that we should stay the course in the relevation of two-thousand soldiers deaths, pulling out would not only make their deaths pointless, but abandon Iraqi's to the terrorists, to make their bloodsick caliphate.
However, if you like i the other opinion, then that's fine too, thats why we're expressing our own ideas.
Posted by: dave at October 25, 2005 10:59 PM (CcXvt)
It's not a grisly bodybag comparison, dave, it's an effort to provide some perspective to what the media is portraying to those whose interest in the subject is tenuous at best.
Dave, it's the media who are rationalizing dead vs. dead. They are the ones screaming "quagmire!!!" And they're doing their best to make this war seem irrational, just as with 'Nam.
Don't give me that Mogadishu shit, dave, really. "Are they less of a sacrifice?" Why don't you ask Clinton, obviously, by not bringing the might of the United States to bear on Somalia, he thought they were, but you bringing it up is utterly irrelevant to this post.
"My point is, it's a better argument to make that we should stay the course in the relevation of two-thousand soldiers deaths, pulling out would not only make their deaths pointless, but abandon Iraqi's to the terrorists, to make their bloodsick caliphate."
So tell me, dave, how do you make your point? From what basis does your argument evolve? Do you just say, "yeah, we have 2000 killed, but we need to stay the course." Why? Why do we need to stay the course, dave? What's in it for us, dave? Hm? We don't live in Iraq, what's the point of our kids dying there? Who gives a shit if Iraq lives under a bloodsick [sic] caliphate? What does a free Iraq give us in return? Why bother?
There is a cost to war, dave, and if we want this country to remain convinced that the cost is worth it, we would do well to remind ourselves of the costs that we have paid previously.
You dishonor the sacrifices of these men and women, dave, by failing to honor their place in history. For you, it's a grisly bodybag comparison. You cheapen their deaths with your hyper-emotionalism.
Go back to school, dave, and learn your history, then maybe you'll be able to honor the dead properly, not by knee jerk reaction, but by viewing their sacrifice with the honor and dignity that it deserves, and with respect to those sacrificed before them.
And if you still don't get it, I would suggest you apply for a job as an AP reporter.
Posted by: Vinnie at October 26, 2005 12:04 AM (Kr6/f)
Did you work out the media is biased all on your own? congratulations -- perhaps we should nominate you for a Pulitzer, or at the very least a medal for spotting-the-bleeding-obvious.
The MSM continues to monitor the body count in Iraq like some warped type of fantasy sports game.
Yes, you read that right. More American civilians died in WWII than have died in the GWOT, which has now gone on longer than WWII, and will continue for many years.
Which one of your posts am I to not take as a comparison, because in your first one you post a list of KIA's and killed Citizens in one war, and talk about Iraq then summerize with More American civilians died in WWII than have died in the GWOT
I guess we can't all be as gifted as you in reading the clarity of your own posts? The very fact the first two, of three posts seem to take your post to mean there was merit in comparing bodycounts:
Vinnie has it right here...the MSM are just all way too stupid to know there US military history....like this one....during the 1944 Battle of the Bulge which started December 16th and lasted till after Christmas.....aprox a 3 week period....The American forces alone suffered 19,000 causulties.....19,000....in 3 weeks, thats right to all those leftist retard trolls who stop in here......and not even 2,000 yet in how long in Iraq????
[..]
Because I am a prejudiced exJarhead I prefer Iwo Jima. We lost more than this in one day!
I guess they also missed your hallowed point too?
Posted by: dave at October 26, 2005 12:53 AM (CcXvt)
Posted by: john Ryan at October 26, 2005 01:14 AM (ads7K)
Problem was that last week when I returned to St. Louis, Mo. my chest felt funny. Like a pressure that didn't make sense. Went to Doctor for stress test. Flunked. Then to my doctor in Slidell, La. A short confersation with the St Louis Cardio. resulted in me in the operating room for a Quad by-pass. Sometimes life can be a bitch when you have a few bucks in the bank. Joking. Maybe! Medical science in America is tops. Damn I love this country. Up in 1 day, home in 5 days and mowing pastures on my Kybota in 6 days. Only in America.
Looking at Waveland, Bay St. Louis and Pass christian, and Bay St Louis Ms, just makes me sick. Ya'll have to understand that Pass Christian, Ms was one of my favorite places in the world. Gorgeous antibellun homes on the beach 100 years old. IT AIN'T THERE ANYMORE. Just concrete slabs with laundry, cars and boats in the few trees left. My home is gone. Along with all the things I have been saving for my children and grandchildren. How do you replace pictures of your parents and grandparents when they are no longer with this world.
Time to cowboy up. Told the wife I'm heading south come Friday to rebuild better than before. Never liked that house anyway. Damn thing faced the east and the morning sun was a pain. New one will face the south.
May all you patriots continue the fight. The rest may continue to kiss my ass. The greyrooster is fixing to get his second wind. The way I figure it took me 64 years to plug the arteries up. Give me another 20 years and I'll set things right. Stand tall, ya'll.
Posted by: Greyrooster at October 26, 2005 01:22 AM (ywZa8)
Posted by: Route Irish at October 26, 2005 02:30 AM (Eh9tH)
Posted by: Vinnie at October 26, 2005 07:10 AM (Kr6/f)
Questions? I saw some sort of lame "You dishonor the Soldiers" rhetoric, the kind that some moonbat might come up with, followed by some sort of attack on my grasp of history, which as I had not posted any historical reference, or in fact mentioned history at all, you have no ability to judge -- nice try though.
It's not my fault you lack the ability to make a concise article that everyone else can understand, but don't let facts get in the way.
Posted by: dave at October 26, 2005 07:57 AM (CcXvt)
I will grant you that making those assumptions was the wrong thing to do, but it was late, and I was tired and more than a little annoyed.
Now, dave, we're through with this. Try to remember, in the future, dude, it's just a blog.
Have a nice day!
Posted by: Vinnie at October 26, 2005 09:51 AM (Kr6/f)
Maybe we should give Dave a password and let him try this shit. Then we can shoot holes in em all day. Keep it up Vinnie, I got the post.
Dave if you blog post your URL once in a while.
Posted by: Howie at October 26, 2005 10:22 AM (xqi1g)
Welcome back, and I am glad to find you in the best of health. My wife's family is from New Hebron, Ms. and I have spent several weeks of almost every summer at her grandmother's old houseplace. We would always go down to Biloxi and stay there, but with the gambling interests and all the traffic, we decided to stay in Bay St. Louis two years ago. I am sorry to here almost everything is gone. What a shame! Do you know if the Jefferson Davis home survived the hurricane? We always liked to go there to.
Missed you while you were gone, have had a fuss or two, nothing that couldn't be handled, but am old enough to appreciate all the help I can get. Ha!
Continue in good health and the best of luck in all your endeavors.
Posted by: jesusland joe at October 26, 2005 10:29 AM (rUyw4)
Posted by: Howie at October 26, 2005 11:07 AM (D3+20)
"IM it sounds like you want to fight a civil war HERE again."
Sure, why not. Every house needs a good cleaning now and then, and ours is full of vermin.
"Kill all Americans who are all left of some point on the political spectrum that you pick?"
Nah, just the ones who support our enemies. You can be as looney as you like, but once you start supporting our enemies, it's time for a hanging.
"lol Well that sounds not very ummmm reasonable."
Very little is accomplished by reasonable people.
"Communism is nor really much of a threat now is it?"
You're very naive, aren't you? Ever hear of North Korea and Red China and their nuclear arsenals?
"Quite frankly I worry a lot more now a days about thieves in Washington stealing my money rather than the Red Chinese or Cubans."
So you're only capable of recognizing one threat at a time?
"I have been around long enough to have seen both the republicans and the democrats swap clothes."
And you think that everything one party says is a lie, and the other is gospel, right? You sound like a Roosevelt socialist to me.
"As far as moonbats of either the extreme left or the ectreme right I kinds think they are funny. But I am an optimist and I DO have a lot of faith in my country."
I don't, because of people like you who want to pretend everything's okay. We're living in what could be the last days of Western civilization as we've known it, and people like you want to play political games. In case you haven't noticed, there is a global war against civilization being carried on by muslims from every country and all walks of life. They want nothing less than to destroy everything that we have built and to exterminate us, and fools like you only care about indicting Karl Rove.
Do you realize that fewer people now than ever before have any faith in our government? Do you realize that the government's ability to fight terroism is being hamstrung by the ACLU and other groups, whose long-stated goals have been to turn America into a Communist country? You poor, stupid simpletons don't even realize the threat we face, so you continue to behave like spoiled brats, crying about free health care and crap like that, while our soldiers are dying every day in the fight against the enemy. That's why liberals should all be shot.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at October 26, 2005 11:12 AM (0yYS2)
I do not own a weblog.
Although if I did I wouldn't think my articles were beyond reproach, and nor should you. I enjoy reading all of the guest posters here, however if I disagree I will call you on it.
Sorry for the inconvenience
Posted by: dave at October 26, 2005 12:11 PM (CcXvt)
My place is a mess. I got tired of my wife and daughters going thru the remains, so I hired a track hoe and dozer and had it all buried. Not a trace left of a 75 year old colonial. Had a crew cut up the downed trees and move them with dozers. What the storn didn't tear up the dozers did. Place looks like a war zone.
Oh well, Now's the time to do it right the first time.
Can't find a hotel or rent a house in 100 miles. Frankly I wish the storm chasers and Fema would go leave and let us work out our problems. At least we would have motels to stay in. Fema is giving away so much money no one will work. I bought a mobile home to live in until I can rebuild. They call it a manufactured house. I call it a trailer. Switching from Wild Turkey to beer. Trailer trash at last.
Scott said he would take emergency leave and come home. I said why? The farm looks like Iraq so might as well stay there.
I have a close friend in the construction business. He is paying unskilled laborers $250.00 per day working 7 days a week. Can't find any help. Fema is paying pickup owners $3.75 per mile to bring travel trailers down from Indiana. They say they need 120,000 at Baton Rouge staging area.
800 miles @$3.75 per mile is $3000.00 per day. One day up, one day back. $1500.00 per day for driving your pickup. Not bad.
One of my neighbors got a job as an inspector for Fema. After a trailer is set in place and hooked up he looks at it. Says he's making $3100.00 per week and they pay him $90.00 per day for using his old pickup.
I wish to say thanks to all you hard working people paying the bill for this.
Posted by: Greyrooster at October 27, 2005 01:11 PM (M7kiy)
Posted by: Howie at October 27, 2005 01:17 PM (D3+20)
Posted by: Howie at October 27, 2005 01:45 PM (D3+20)
Posted by: Sparky at October 30, 2005 10:54 AM (F1nba)
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