1
Frankly, I'm shocked we can still find the rare Democrat that puts country before party.  What he says is obvious and self-evident.  But don't expect the Leftards to be moved by this.  It's been put just as clearly to them a thousand times before.   

2 >I totally agree, of course, though I'll go further than that. Withdrawal from Iraq would hand bin Laden a substantial strategic victory as well.

Is any of that loss the Bush Administration's fault? That maybe there wasn't a way to win Iraq in the first place and that the only sensible move would have been not to invade?

3 What's that they say about a stopped clock?

4 Yes, but a withdrawal would allow the Shia, Sunni and Kurds to kill each other without the silly rules of engagement enforced by the USA
let's leave and let Islam eat it's own.

5 Here is a great "Surrender Monkey" pix and videos from Move America Forward (BTW Melanie has been banned from PBS). Gotta love it as they use live monkeys.......
http://www.moveamericaforward.org/

6 Is any of that loss the Bush Administration's fault? That maybe there wasn't a way to win Iraq in the first place and that the only sensible move would have been not to invade?

Let me put it to you as simply as I can:

Across the political spectrum, no matter what we might disagree about, the one thing we all seem to agree on is that there's a "fire" burning in Iraq.  If you can't agree with that metaphor, then I don't really care to hear from you, because you're an idiot.

Now, if you can accept my "fire" metaphor, you have a number of options as to what you should do right now, among them:

1. try to figure out how to put out the fire, or

2. try to figure out who should be blamed for the fire,or

3. start a public campaign to force the "fire department" to leave the fire alone.

It really is just that simple.

Whether or not you choose option 1, I wonder if your choice would be different if it were your own house on fire, or your family's house, instead of a house occupied by a bunch of brown-skinned strangers living in a faraway corner of the world.

7 That maybe there wasn't a way to win Iraq in the first place and that the only sensible move would have been not to invade?

That train left the station a long time ago.  Fact is we did invade (with Congress's blessing), and there's no taking it back.  The question is, therefore, what do we do now.  A question, by the way, you and the tards Bob Kerry is talking to wish to avoid.

8 thing we all seem to agree on is that there's a "fire" burning in Iraq

There certainly was no "agreement" of the sort.

No, Iraq was not a "fire" it was a typical third world dictatorship and a threat to no one save the people who lived within her borders.

See the lack of WMD? No fire. No threat to America, no reason to invade.

And if it was a fire than your Dear Leader's solution was to walk up with a giant can of aviation fuel ignoring the people screaming "What the hell are you doing?!?!" He then poured it all over the fire and as the flames got higher and higher he turned and faced the people with a huge grin on his face yelling "Yeeehawwww! Mission Accomplished!"

Furthermore it's cute the way you don't want to blame anyone but considering the stack of bodies that gets higher everyday I think blame should be assigned. But that would be the whole responsibility thing, conservatives seem pretty selective when it comes to that these days. Shame it was President Gore that made this mess, I bet you'd been keen on accountability then.

NK, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and a host of other nations were far
greater threats or bigger "fires". They've had a free reign for the last 6 years now.

Not to mention Afghanistan was left unfinished.

you can't agree with that metaphor, then I don't really care to hear from you, because you're an idiot.

Wow, that's quite the debate tactic but it falls apart because your metaphor is inoperable.

9 salvage,

fuck off and die asshole.  How's that for a debate tactic.  Your only concern it to blame, as long as it's Bush, rather than all the Democrats who also voted for the war because your concerns are purely political-- which are lowest of the low when it comes down to it.  You care not an ounce for how the outcome of this war will affect your country as long as your shitty little politics are vindicated.  You disgust me to the core, you little creep.

10 No, Iraq was not a "fire" it was a typical third world dictatorship and a threat to no one save the people who lived within her borders.

Just as I suspected.  You're an idiot.

If you weren't an idiot, you'd understand the difference between "was" and "is."  You see, the word "was" is used to describe things in the past tense.  The word "is," on the other hand, is used in connection with things occurring in the present tense.  I am talking about "is" (present tense, relevant to ideal future course of action), while you're obsessed with "was" (past tense, almost completely irrelevant to ideal future course of action.)

You're obsessed with going back and revisiting things done four years ago when they are completely irrelevant to what course of action we should take today.  You want to point fingers?  Hey, knock yourself out.  But can we at least hold off on the recriminations until we've got this fire at least under some sort of control?  Can we do that, at least?  Is it too much to ask that we let the firemen do their fucking job without the moonbats turning off their water and jumping on their backs while they're trying to do their best to do something positive?  Is that so much to ask?

You want me to admit Bush has fucked up?  Fine.  Bush has fucked up.  There it is.  You want me to admit that, knowing what we know today, we may not have invaded Iraq if we had it to do over again.  I'm willing to admit that's a distinct possibility.  I don't owe the Bush administration a damn thing.  I have no incentive to defend any of them.  Mistakes have been made--a lot of them.  But SO F-ING WHAT?  Who, other than a bunch of vindictive ninnie peacenik moonbats gives a flying fuck about that today, in 2007, when we have people working and fighting and dying in Iraq and we're trying to figure out what the hell we should do next?

11 Ragnar: Nice speech. Your Solution # (1)  Try to.  Your Solution # (2)  Try to. Your Solution # (3) Start a.  Is there a solution in there?
 
 
 
 
How about telling the world we are tired of the bullshit. That a government/country is responsible for the actions of its people. How about telling them we will retaliate against any country that has its citizenry attack us. We will punish any nation that doesn't do everything in its power to prevent its citizenry or government from harming any American interest. In particularly our homeland. In plan English. We will destroy the infracture of any country that allows its government or citizens to comitt violence against America. THEN DO IT.  Their own governments will clean up the mess for us. We had the abilitly to send our enemies back to the stone age. We paid for it. Why not use our technology instead of the lives of our young people? WE BE STUPID because we talk to our enemies in a language they don't understand. I say give them something they will understand. AN EXAMPLE MUST BE MADE IN THE WAR BETWEEN ISLAM AND FREEDOM. I PREFER THE EXAMPLE BE THEM INSTEAD OF US. The distruction of the infracture of Iran will bring about peace. They will cry. They will threaten. But in the end they will behave. And if their friends don't like it. Well, they can join them in riding a donkey to work and cooking on camel dung fires. Just like the good ole days.

12 Salvage: Why is Nk, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia a big threat to us. North Korea is starving to death. China is our largest trading partner. They are becoming westernized at a tremenous rate. They know trade with America is responsible for their new found wealth and they love it. Russia is at present a joke who can bearly put down inside rebellions. Shit they couldn't whip Afghanistan. Saudi Arabia knows that their kingdom would not exist without America. THE ENEMY IS ISLAM. Not third world gooks or has been Ruskies or never been Saudis. ISLAM is the world's cancer. We must come up with a cure for it. We have a choice. Kill it or contain it. We cannot let it grow or it will kill us. OUTLAW ISLAM

13 Bob Kerry gets a free pass when he talks military.  When he talks politics, the free pass is not available.  He deeply admires Bill Clinton.  Deeply admires that man.

When Bob Kerry talks politics I see in the shadows Bill Clinton.  As to what role ole Bubba is playing, I can't say with certainty.  I do "color" Bob Kerry's political thoughts knowing this.  I would not offer this man automatic trust, politically. 

I remember his work on the 9/11 commission, too...kind of a rubber stamp for the Democratic team out to slam dunk our President and cover their asses, especially during Clinton's time.

Two words:  Sandy Berger.  He likes Bob Kerry.

14 Sandy Berger likes Bob Kerryy. Says it all.