August 21, 2006
Hindus Praising Hitler?
The way this story is written, you'd think it was Hindus that opened a Hitler themed cafe. Question to Indian readers: what kind of name is Punit Shablok, the owner of the restaurant?
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Do I need to even say what certain religion of peace the name Fatima Kabani probably indicates?
Hitler's Cross', which opened last week, serves up a wide range of continental fare and a big helping of controversy, thanks to a name the owners say they chose to stand out among hundreds of Mumbai eateries.Laurence Simon has more."We wanted to be different. This is one name that will stay in people's minds," owner Punit Shablok told Reuters.
"We are not promoting Hitler. But we want to tell people we are different in the way he was different."...
A huge portrait of a stern-looking Fuehrer greets visitors at the door. The cross in the restaurant's name refers to the swastika that symbolized the Nazi regime.
"This place is not about wars or crimes, but where people come to relax and enjoy a meal," said restaurant manager Fatima Kabani, adding that they were planning to turn the eatery's name into a brand with more branches in Mumbai.
If it was a Hindu who opened the restaurant, we are in deeper shit than I thought.
Parenthetically, a few readers from India have e-mailed me saying they can now access my blog. As far as we can tell, we are still officially banned in India, but unoficially....... you can't stop the Jawa juggernaut!
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1
Well, the owner might by hindu, but the manager's name is Fatima Kabani, and that is clearly Islamic.
Posted by: ansar-al kufir at August 21, 2006 03:51 PM (Wikc/)
2
Well, the owner might by hindu, but the manager's name is Fatima Kabani, and that is clearly Islamic. Fatima (besides being a place where an apparition of Mary was seen) was the daughter of Mohammed and the first wife of Ali.
Posted by: ansar-al kufir at August 21, 2006 03:53 PM (Wikc/)
3
Dudes, the owner of that cafe is a muslim who is simply passing himself off as a hindu. With millions of hindus, muslims, sikh and a whole bunch of other people inhabiting Mumbai, do you really think the media would check, or even care for that matter? (I've been to Mumbai several times, few people would even care.)
The reverse swastika is a symbol of the Hindu religion, long before Germany ever adopted it in the 1930's.
The reverse swastika is a symbol of the Hindu religion, long before Germany ever adopted it in the 1930's.
Posted by: Agent Meatball at August 21, 2006 04:03 PM (30FRH)
4
Hint, hint. Fatima is a muslim name.
Posted by: greyrooster at August 21, 2006 04:05 PM (VMww0)
5
The owner's name is Hindu. Some of the guests mentioned at the launch also have Hindu names.
This article says that a Sablok Builders group is behind the management. I could be wrong, but I believe that Sablok is a Hindu name, as well.
This article says that a Sablok Builders group is behind the management. I could be wrong, but I believe that Sablok is a Hindu name, as well.
Posted by: Perla Zhemchuzhina at August 21, 2006 04:25 PM (+p36Q)
6
The article mentions they're "planning to turn the eatery's name into a brand." I'm guessing they'll want the URL http://www.hitlerscross.com to do that. (Feel free to post the link so people may have an idea of why it's NOT funny to name a restaurant after Hitler.
Posted by: Bruno Mitchell at August 21, 2006 04:53 PM (MquK5)
Posted by: Bruno Mitchell at August 21, 2006 04:56 PM (MquK5)
Posted by: Bruno Mitchell at August 21, 2006 04:58 PM (MquK5)
9
Utterly distasteful and with total lack of respect and sensitivity.
That said, Haywood recommends NOT ordering anything from the oven.
That said, Haywood recommends NOT ordering anything from the oven.
Posted by: haywood jablowmi at August 21, 2006 05:14 PM (VUmVc)
10
Perla, Does it matter that the owner is Hindu?
NO.
What matters is that the manager is a Muslim and if one knows anything about the restaurant business, its the manager that has ultimte control.
Especially if she is being quoted, as that has Public Relations ranking, which means she is very high on power scale in the restaurant.
Secondly, her first name is Fatima, which is usually associated with very strict and hard-core Muslims in today's day and age. It's liking naming your kid Jesus, if you know what I mean.
Don't make excuses for Muslims.
NO.
What matters is that the manager is a Muslim and if one knows anything about the restaurant business, its the manager that has ultimte control.
Especially if she is being quoted, as that has Public Relations ranking, which means she is very high on power scale in the restaurant.
Secondly, her first name is Fatima, which is usually associated with very strict and hard-core Muslims in today's day and age. It's liking naming your kid Jesus, if you know what I mean.
Don't make excuses for Muslims.
Posted by: Kloss at August 21, 2006 05:38 PM (LBfaS)
11
I think its extremely ridiculuous to make this into a Hindu vs. Jew or even a Muslim vs. Jew thing. Its clearly a case of stupidity on the part of the owners. Either that or the owners want to garner publicity by creating a controversy. And most educated Indians are infact outraged by it all. I was completely taken aback and disgusted when I first heard about it. To get an idea of the varying Indian perspectives have a look at this post on Sepia Mutiny.
It would be similar to the Hong Kong Nazi Chic issue posted on LGF or this Korean Hitler Bar(via ethnic on SM).
It would be similar to the Hong Kong Nazi Chic issue posted on LGF or this Korean Hitler Bar(via ethnic on SM).
Posted by: Ken at August 21, 2006 05:47 PM (rXl/4)
12
It's _not_ a hindu vs. jew thing -- that's correct.
But it _is_ in fact, a muslim vs. jew thing. You will just have to pick up a history book from any time period, after 600 A.D. that is, and you will see what I mean.
Otherwise, you will be part of the problem.
But it _is_ in fact, a muslim vs. jew thing. You will just have to pick up a history book from any time period, after 600 A.D. that is, and you will see what I mean.
Otherwise, you will be part of the problem.
Posted by: Kloss at August 21, 2006 05:54 PM (LBfaS)
13
Only in Muslim countries is Mein Keimpf still a bestseller. Antisemetism exists everywhere, but not to the extent that it does in Muslim countries.
Posted by: Rusty at August 21, 2006 06:28 PM (JQjhA)
14
The owner is Hindu, Punit in Hinduism means "pure". It is disgusting to see the picture of a person who slaughtered millions of Jews being used for marketing, but it is not against the law. If someone has a problem with the picture, they should not dine there. Simple.
Posted by: blahblah at August 21, 2006 06:47 PM (IHzgu)
15
I agree with Ken; I know a fair bit about India including the fact that there is a thriving Jewish community there (I've forgotten what they call their branch). And to my knowledge they haven't experienced anti-semitism, certainly not from the Hindu's. Hindu's are surprisingly tolerant of other faiths with Islam being the only exception (and I agree with the Hindu's on that).
This is nothing more than a f&$king stupid publicity stunt on the part of the restaurant owner.
As regards the Swastika; that's an entirely different story.
Ken, correct me if I'm wrong, but the word "Swastika" is a Sanskirit compound noun meaning "The Symbol of Well-being". This symbol has existed in Hinduism, Buddhaism and Zoroastrianism (the pre-Islam religion of the Iranian people). If you visit a Hindu temple you'll definitely see it drawn counter-clockwise surrounding depictions of Hindu deities. In Zoroastrianism this symbol is referred to as the "Wheel of the Sun" its four arms representing the four seasons and its rotational symmetry is meant to represent the concept of "enternity".
This is nothing more than a f&$king stupid publicity stunt on the part of the restaurant owner.
As regards the Swastika; that's an entirely different story.
Ken, correct me if I'm wrong, but the word "Swastika" is a Sanskirit compound noun meaning "The Symbol of Well-being". This symbol has existed in Hinduism, Buddhaism and Zoroastrianism (the pre-Islam religion of the Iranian people). If you visit a Hindu temple you'll definitely see it drawn counter-clockwise surrounding depictions of Hindu deities. In Zoroastrianism this symbol is referred to as the "Wheel of the Sun" its four arms representing the four seasons and its rotational symmetry is meant to represent the concept of "enternity".
Posted by: Garduneh Mehr at August 21, 2006 06:52 PM (Bp6wV)
16
It's alright folks. Hitler was reincarnated as a pet rat. They give him milk in the back by the trash. It's a Hindu thing.
Posted by: Leatherneck at August 21, 2006 07:05 PM (D2g/j)
17
"Perla, Does it matter that the owner is Hindu? NO. What matters is that the manager is a Muslim and if one knows anything about the restaurant business, its the manager that has ultimte control.
Especially if she is being quoted, as that has Public Relations ranking, which means she is very high on power scale in the restaurant."
Thanks, I've worked in the restaurant industry myself. The manager still must report to the owner. In any of the places where I worked, the manager was always frantic before the owner arrived, trying to make sure that everything would look good. The manager is not higher on the "power scale" than the owner. Owners can sack the manager, and not the other way around. And who would have come up for the idea of the restaurant to begin with?
"Secondly, her first name is Fatima, which is usually associated with very strict and hard-core Muslims in today's day and age. It's liking naming your kid Jesus, if you know what I mean."
Fatima is a very common name amongst Muslims. I don't think that we can fairly judge how religious someone is by her first name. Now of course we can't comment on this particular woman specifically, but a great deal of the Muslims in India are not very strict. For example, if you go to Jamma Masjid in Delhi, you will find that many of the women don't even have their hair covered, and even those that do, are often wearing only a thin dhupatta, and if the weather is warm, they will be wearing saris and short-sleeved kurtas. In some parts of India, Muslims even celebrate some Hindu holidays with their Hindu neighbours.
I wouldn't have thought of this as a Muslim or Hindu vs. Jews situation, as the staff of the restaurant is apparently made up of at least 2 religions, which should show us that this is a tasteless way to get publicity for their restaurant and make money. It is probably a desire to get attention, which will translate into business and money for the restaurant, which led to the decision to name the restaurant as such, rather than any animosity toward Jews by either the Hindu owner or the Muslim manager. It just seems a bit hypocritical to portray the restaurant as being run by Muslims, when the owner is Hindu.
Especially if she is being quoted, as that has Public Relations ranking, which means she is very high on power scale in the restaurant."
Thanks, I've worked in the restaurant industry myself. The manager still must report to the owner. In any of the places where I worked, the manager was always frantic before the owner arrived, trying to make sure that everything would look good. The manager is not higher on the "power scale" than the owner. Owners can sack the manager, and not the other way around. And who would have come up for the idea of the restaurant to begin with?
"Secondly, her first name is Fatima, which is usually associated with very strict and hard-core Muslims in today's day and age. It's liking naming your kid Jesus, if you know what I mean."
Fatima is a very common name amongst Muslims. I don't think that we can fairly judge how religious someone is by her first name. Now of course we can't comment on this particular woman specifically, but a great deal of the Muslims in India are not very strict. For example, if you go to Jamma Masjid in Delhi, you will find that many of the women don't even have their hair covered, and even those that do, are often wearing only a thin dhupatta, and if the weather is warm, they will be wearing saris and short-sleeved kurtas. In some parts of India, Muslims even celebrate some Hindu holidays with their Hindu neighbours.
I wouldn't have thought of this as a Muslim or Hindu vs. Jews situation, as the staff of the restaurant is apparently made up of at least 2 religions, which should show us that this is a tasteless way to get publicity for their restaurant and make money. It is probably a desire to get attention, which will translate into business and money for the restaurant, which led to the decision to name the restaurant as such, rather than any animosity toward Jews by either the Hindu owner or the Muslim manager. It just seems a bit hypocritical to portray the restaurant as being run by Muslims, when the owner is Hindu.
Posted by: Perla Zhemchuzhina at August 21, 2006 08:14 PM (4PuWz)
18
Why make a comment such as this? This is what one resorts to when they end up defending the indefensible, a bit on the personal attack on character?
"It just seems a bit hypocritical to portray the restaurant as being run by Muslims, when the owner is Hindu."
Perla .... I too have worked in a restaurant. And you said you did too, but it must have been one of meager persona, not much for one to notice on a road. I say this because in top-end restaurants, such as this "H-----" restaurant appears to be, this is not the case!
In such restaurants, they are run like top hotels. The manager is a strong, demanding Manager, who runs the place like the captain of his own ship. In most cases, the Manager has a percentage share in the Ownership!
This appears to be the case here, that Muslim Fatima has a significant ownership in the restaurant.
Perla, I respect your opinion, but here you have got it all wrong. Stop trying to blame the Hindu! Stop pointing out how each name you come across is a Hindu name! When you came across Fatima Kabani's name, you should have stopped right there and figured it out.
"It just seems a bit hypocritical to portray the restaurant as being run by Muslims, when the owner is Hindu."
Perla .... I too have worked in a restaurant. And you said you did too, but it must have been one of meager persona, not much for one to notice on a road. I say this because in top-end restaurants, such as this "H-----" restaurant appears to be, this is not the case!
In such restaurants, they are run like top hotels. The manager is a strong, demanding Manager, who runs the place like the captain of his own ship. In most cases, the Manager has a percentage share in the Ownership!
This appears to be the case here, that Muslim Fatima has a significant ownership in the restaurant.
Perla, I respect your opinion, but here you have got it all wrong. Stop trying to blame the Hindu! Stop pointing out how each name you come across is a Hindu name! When you came across Fatima Kabani's name, you should have stopped right there and figured it out.
Posted by: Kloss at August 21, 2006 08:50 PM (LBfaS)
19
Hi Kloss. Well, you are right that I haven't worked at any famous restaurants. I was a university student trying to earn some extra money, it wasn't exactly a career for me.
I only began pointing out Hindu names in response to earlier posts that pointed out the name of the Muslim manager. (I mentioned in my post that I think that this is a cynical and tasteless way to make money, not a matter of religion of anyone involved.) But you can't act as if the owner of a restaurant has nothing to do with the place. The fact that he owns the place means that he has apparently given tacit approval to the name, general theme, etc... of the restaurant. Suppose you were to open an expensive restaurant and discovered one day that the manager had taken it upon himself to name the place after Hitler...would you allow it to remain open, in that form and with the same management?
I only began pointing out Hindu names in response to earlier posts that pointed out the name of the Muslim manager. (I mentioned in my post that I think that this is a cynical and tasteless way to make money, not a matter of religion of anyone involved.) But you can't act as if the owner of a restaurant has nothing to do with the place. The fact that he owns the place means that he has apparently given tacit approval to the name, general theme, etc... of the restaurant. Suppose you were to open an expensive restaurant and discovered one day that the manager had taken it upon himself to name the place after Hitler...would you allow it to remain open, in that form and with the same management?
Posted by: Perla Zhemchuzhina at August 21, 2006 09:03 PM (4PuWz)
20
Okay, then we can agree to disagree. But I think what you are asking me (and other readers) to do is give the Muslim Manager a pass. A complete pass! You want me to overlook a clear & obvious danger to the Jewish community in India through this person, just so that you remain Politically correct?
Ok, so let's do that. But then will you be comfortable knowing that in the near future, this woman will have taken the next step in her hate and harm innocent life? Will you still defend your position then?
It is really an interesting time that we live in, where a terror-breeding Muslim can open a restaurant in praise of H----- and the slaughter of Jews, right in the middle of a major city....YET she will have supporters who defend her and make excuses for her. And worse, blame it on Hindus (who were among the first during WW2 to declare themselves against H-----!
Perla is not a Muslim name from what I can tell. So where Oh where in your life, did you make such a decision, to take the side of those who would never let you speak in the first place?
Ok, so let's do that. But then will you be comfortable knowing that in the near future, this woman will have taken the next step in her hate and harm innocent life? Will you still defend your position then?
It is really an interesting time that we live in, where a terror-breeding Muslim can open a restaurant in praise of H----- and the slaughter of Jews, right in the middle of a major city....YET she will have supporters who defend her and make excuses for her. And worse, blame it on Hindus (who were among the first during WW2 to declare themselves against H-----!
Perla is not a Muslim name from what I can tell. So where Oh where in your life, did you make such a decision, to take the side of those who would never let you speak in the first place?
Posted by: Kloss at August 21, 2006 10:35 PM (LBfaS)
21
Maybe its becuase HITLER WAS A VEGETARIAN
Posted by: sandpiper at August 21, 2006 10:53 PM (uo3LX)
22
A guest on the Michael Medved radio show on Monday made the claim that the most recent previous government of India was headed by a pro-Nazi Hindu. Doing a quick Google search brought up leads indicating pro-Nazi sentiments in a couple Indian politcal parties (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and Shiv Sena). Apparently, there are many Hindus who admire Hitler for one reason or another.
Rail travel is big in India, and I'd say they admired him for making the trains run on time, but that was Mussolini...
Rail travel is big in India, and I'd say they admired him for making the trains run on time, but that was Mussolini...
Posted by: Pants at August 22, 2006 02:29 AM (BPyqV)
23
So now it is Hindu-bashing time?
One can learn from the Nazi party but have absolutely nothing but contempt for H-----. He usurped the party and turned it into a hate machine. Hindus who appear to admire the Nazi's do so only the party and not the man.
To say Hindus love H----- because of their support for the Nazi party means you did not even read the references properly.
Please try and find any quotes from Hindu leaders praisig Hitl-- ,otherwise do not draw such conclusions.
So now it is Hindu-bashing time?
One can learn from the Nazi party but have absolutely nothing but contempt for H-----. He usurped the party and turned it into a hate machine. Hindus who appear to admire the Nazi's do so only the party and not the man.
To say Hindus love H----- because of their support for the Nazi party means you did not even read the references properly.
Please try and find any quotes from Hindu leaders praisig Hitl-- ,otherwise do not draw such conclusions.
Posted by: Kloss at August 22, 2006 06:09 AM (LBfaS)
24
Actually, I think Perla has a point. The owner would have to approve of the theme for the restaurant to have it. But Kloss' argument that this is giving the manager a pass is invalid. Everyone involved with the restaurant is shown in a negative light by association on this one. The cooks, the waiters, the bussers, the manager all would have to be at least apathetic towards, if not outright supporting of, the Hitler theme if they were to work there.
And Kloss, the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei was always antisemetic and violent. They started off in 1920 as a paramilitary group that railed against the Treaty of Versailles and against Jews. That's why Hitler was so drawn to them initially. This lost its appeal for a while when their charasmatic primary speaker, Adolf Hilter, was trown in jail. It disolved. It was reestablished by Hitler, with him as the leader instead of just a talking head, upon his release.
And Kloss, the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei was always antisemetic and violent. They started off in 1920 as a paramilitary group that railed against the Treaty of Versailles and against Jews. That's why Hitler was so drawn to them initially. This lost its appeal for a while when their charasmatic primary speaker, Adolf Hilter, was trown in jail. It disolved. It was reestablished by Hitler, with him as the leader instead of just a talking head, upon his release.
Posted by: Ranba Ral at August 22, 2006 07:24 AM (VvXII)
25
Not many people know it, but during WW2, most Indians supported the Axis powers, because they wanted to get the British out of India. There is still a lot of lingering resentment among Indians of all stripes against the British, and by extension, Americans. I guess they didn't appreciate being brought into the modern world.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at August 22, 2006 10:14 AM (v3I+x)
26
Hi i don't know how i stumbled upon this blog, but anyways, i'm a Indian American of Hindu descent, was born and raised in the U.S. (Texas).
I'd like to chime in if I may. I've been to India a number of times and most of my non-immediate family still lives there.
Punit is a Hindu name. That is the owner according to the article. Fatima is obviously a Muslim name. Whether Punit is a real Hindu or a Muslim pretending, I have no idea, but to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he was in fact a Hindu
BUT, I would like to make one thing clear here. Hindus were one of the few countries to give refuge to Jews and Parsis as they escaped religious persecution in the Middle East. There is a community of Jews in India who have lived there for hundreds of years, in peace with there Hindu brothers. In India Hindu neighbors celebrate Hanakka (sp?) with Jews, as the festival of lights, and the Jews celebrate with Hindus on their festival of lights, "Diwali."
Jews and Hindus, the world over, have very strong ties for very obvious reasons. I have several good Jewish friends who have good friends of Indian descent that I don't even know. We get along very well. We both are made of highly intelligent, ambitious, and cheap people (just kidding). But seriously, we have a lot in common especially the threat of Islamic fundamentalism.
The owner of this cafe, Punit, is not even 1% representative of the Indian-Hindu mentality. I seriously doubt he himself respects Hitler. Most Hindus actually are offended that Hitler took our Swastika and bastardized it. In India, the Swastika is widely used, and has been, for thousands of years (before the Buddhists, who stemmed from Buddha, who was born Hindu himself). I think its sad that we cannot use the symbol of peace and good fortune as much in the U.S. or as freely as we do in India. I squarely blame the Nazi's for this. They have hijacked our symbol so to speak.
Bottom line: This guy is probably doing this to make money. Hindus and Jews not only get along, they get along very well as far as any two ethnic groups go, This guy will get slack for this from Indians, in India, for sure. The owner may be Hindu and the manager Muslim, but religion has nothing to do with this, its capitalism.
There exists a very small minority of "Aryan" proud Hindus who Nazi's tried to court in the 1930s and 1940's (Nazis travelled to India to learn about Aryan-ism). But I seriously doubt any of them have anything to do with this. This is way to blazen and is definitely just to make money. Something akin to "freedom fries" that we saw after 9/11.
I'd like to chime in if I may. I've been to India a number of times and most of my non-immediate family still lives there.
Punit is a Hindu name. That is the owner according to the article. Fatima is obviously a Muslim name. Whether Punit is a real Hindu or a Muslim pretending, I have no idea, but to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he was in fact a Hindu
BUT, I would like to make one thing clear here. Hindus were one of the few countries to give refuge to Jews and Parsis as they escaped religious persecution in the Middle East. There is a community of Jews in India who have lived there for hundreds of years, in peace with there Hindu brothers. In India Hindu neighbors celebrate Hanakka (sp?) with Jews, as the festival of lights, and the Jews celebrate with Hindus on their festival of lights, "Diwali."
Jews and Hindus, the world over, have very strong ties for very obvious reasons. I have several good Jewish friends who have good friends of Indian descent that I don't even know. We get along very well. We both are made of highly intelligent, ambitious, and cheap people (just kidding). But seriously, we have a lot in common especially the threat of Islamic fundamentalism.
The owner of this cafe, Punit, is not even 1% representative of the Indian-Hindu mentality. I seriously doubt he himself respects Hitler. Most Hindus actually are offended that Hitler took our Swastika and bastardized it. In India, the Swastika is widely used, and has been, for thousands of years (before the Buddhists, who stemmed from Buddha, who was born Hindu himself). I think its sad that we cannot use the symbol of peace and good fortune as much in the U.S. or as freely as we do in India. I squarely blame the Nazi's for this. They have hijacked our symbol so to speak.
Bottom line: This guy is probably doing this to make money. Hindus and Jews not only get along, they get along very well as far as any two ethnic groups go, This guy will get slack for this from Indians, in India, for sure. The owner may be Hindu and the manager Muslim, but religion has nothing to do with this, its capitalism.
There exists a very small minority of "Aryan" proud Hindus who Nazi's tried to court in the 1930s and 1940's (Nazis travelled to India to learn about Aryan-ism). But I seriously doubt any of them have anything to do with this. This is way to blazen and is definitely just to make money. Something akin to "freedom fries" that we saw after 9/11.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 22, 2006 10:22 AM (A8Hxo)
27
Hi i don't know how i stumbled upon this blog, but anyways, i'm a Indian American of Hindu descent, was born and raised in the U.S. (Texas).
I'd like to chime in if I may. I've been to India a number of times and most of my non-immediate family still lives there.
Punit is a Hindu name. That is the owner according to the article. Fatima is obviously a Muslim name. Whether Punit is a real Hindu or a Muslim pretending, I have no idea, but to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he was in fact a Hindu
BUT, I would like to make one thing clear here. Hindus were one of the few countries to give refuge to Jews and Parsis as they escaped religious persecution in the Middle East. There is a community of Jews in India who have lived there for hundreds of years, in peace with there Hindu brothers. In India Hindu neighbors celebrate Hanakka (sp?) with Jews, as the festival of lights, and the Jews celebrate with Hindus on their festival of lights, "Diwali."
Jews and Hindus, the world over, have very strong ties for very obvious reasons. I have several good Jewish friends who have good friends of Indian descent that I don't even know. We get along very well. We both are made of highly intelligent, ambitious, and cheap people (just kidding). But seriously, we have a lot in common especially the threat of Islamic fundamentalism.
The owner of this cafe, Punit, is not even 1% representative of the Indian-Hindu mentality. I seriously doubt he himself respects Hitler. Most Hindus actually are offended that Hitler took our Swastika and bastardized it. In India, the Swastika is widely used, and has been, for thousands of years (before the Buddhists, who stemmed from Buddha, who was born Hindu himself). I think its sad that we cannot use the symbol of peace and good fortune as much in the U.S. or as freely as we do in India. I squarely blame the Nazi's for this. They have hijacked our symbol so to speak.
Bottom line: This guy is probably doing this to make money. Hindus and Jews not only get along, they get along very well as far as any two ethnic groups go, This guy will get slack for this from Indians, in India, for sure. The owner may be Hindu and the manager Muslim, but religion has nothing to do with this, its capitalism.
There exists a very small minority of "Aryan" proud Hindus who Nazi's tried to court in the 1930s and 1940's (Nazis travelled to India to learn about Aryan-ism). But I seriously doubt any of them have anything to do with this. This is way to blazen and is definitely just to make money. Something akin to "freedom fries" that we saw after 9/11.
I'd like to chime in if I may. I've been to India a number of times and most of my non-immediate family still lives there.
Punit is a Hindu name. That is the owner according to the article. Fatima is obviously a Muslim name. Whether Punit is a real Hindu or a Muslim pretending, I have no idea, but to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he was in fact a Hindu
BUT, I would like to make one thing clear here. Hindus were one of the few countries to give refuge to Jews and Parsis as they escaped religious persecution in the Middle East. There is a community of Jews in India who have lived there for hundreds of years, in peace with there Hindu brothers. In India Hindu neighbors celebrate Hanakka (sp?) with Jews, as the festival of lights, and the Jews celebrate with Hindus on their festival of lights, "Diwali."
Jews and Hindus, the world over, have very strong ties for very obvious reasons. I have several good Jewish friends who have good friends of Indian descent that I don't even know. We get along very well. We both are made of highly intelligent, ambitious, and cheap people (just kidding). But seriously, we have a lot in common especially the threat of Islamic fundamentalism.
The owner of this cafe, Punit, is not even 1% representative of the Indian-Hindu mentality. I seriously doubt he himself respects Hitler. Most Hindus actually are offended that Hitler took our Swastika and bastardized it. In India, the Swastika is widely used, and has been, for thousands of years (before the Buddhists, who stemmed from Buddha, who was born Hindu himself). I think its sad that we cannot use the symbol of peace and good fortune as much in the U.S. or as freely as we do in India. I squarely blame the Nazi's for this. They have hijacked our symbol so to speak.
Bottom line: This guy is probably doing this to make money. Hindus and Jews not only get along, they get along very well as far as any two ethnic groups go, This guy will get slack for this from Indians, in India, for sure. The owner may be Hindu and the manager Muslim, but religion has nothing to do with this, its capitalism.
There exists a very small minority of "Aryan" proud Hindus who Nazi's tried to court in the 1930s and 1940's (Nazis travelled to India to learn about Aryan-ism). But I seriously doubt any of them have anything to do with this. This is way to blazen and is definitely just to make money. Something akin to "freedom fries" that we saw after 9/11.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 22, 2006 10:29 AM (A8Hxo)
28
Improbulus:
The only thing the British deserve credit for was the railway system, and unifying India. But the Brits, who did not have a resource rich nation of their own, also looted from India. They did not even spare the Taj Mahal's jewels or the Kohinoor Diamond. They would buy cotton from India, then re-sell textiles made from that back to Indians at a high profit. There was nothing admirable about their occupation of India.
Indians learned from Brits, and Brits learned from Indians as well. The British were learning the Indians rocket power. They were awed when they battled Tipu Sultan (and lost) in South India. They took back the discharged rockets to England to study how they worked. Master planned cities, plumbing, irrigation, brain surgery, metallurgy were all being performed by Indians thousands of years ago - read up on the Mohenja Daro civilization.
The inventions of the engine were what modernized the world, not just India.
The only thing the British deserve credit for was the railway system, and unifying India. But the Brits, who did not have a resource rich nation of their own, also looted from India. They did not even spare the Taj Mahal's jewels or the Kohinoor Diamond. They would buy cotton from India, then re-sell textiles made from that back to Indians at a high profit. There was nothing admirable about their occupation of India.
Indians learned from Brits, and Brits learned from Indians as well. The British were learning the Indians rocket power. They were awed when they battled Tipu Sultan (and lost) in South India. They took back the discharged rockets to England to study how they worked. Master planned cities, plumbing, irrigation, brain surgery, metallurgy were all being performed by Indians thousands of years ago - read up on the Mohenja Daro civilization.
The inventions of the engine were what modernized the world, not just India.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 22, 2006 10:39 AM (A8Hxo)
29
Improbulus:
The only thing the British deserve credit for was the railway system, and unifying India. But the Brits, who did not have a resource rich nation of their own, also looted from India. They did not even spare the Taj Mahal's jewels or the Kohinoor Diamond. They would buy cotton from India, then re-sell textiles made from that back to Indians at a high profit. There was nothing admirable about their occupation of India.
Indians learned from Brits, and Brits learned from Indians as well. The British were learning the Indians rocket power. They were awed when they battled Tipu Sultan (and lost) in South India. They took back the discharged rockets to England to study how they worked. Master planned cities, plumbing, irrigation, brain surgery, metallurgy were all being performed by Indians thousands of years ago - read up on the Mohenja Daro civilization.
The inventions of the engine were what modernized the world, not just India.
The only thing the British deserve credit for was the railway system, and unifying India. But the Brits, who did not have a resource rich nation of their own, also looted from India. They did not even spare the Taj Mahal's jewels or the Kohinoor Diamond. They would buy cotton from India, then re-sell textiles made from that back to Indians at a high profit. There was nothing admirable about their occupation of India.
Indians learned from Brits, and Brits learned from Indians as well. The British were learning the Indians rocket power. They were awed when they battled Tipu Sultan (and lost) in South India. They took back the discharged rockets to England to study how they worked. Master planned cities, plumbing, irrigation, brain surgery, metallurgy were all being performed by Indians thousands of years ago - read up on the Mohenja Daro civilization.
The inventions of the engine were what modernized the world, not just India.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 22, 2006 10:40 AM (A8Hxo)
30
Crap, I'm sorry about the double posts. your server is very slow for me. Mods, please erase accoringly.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 22, 2006 10:46 AM (A8Hxo)
31
I think the important thing to remember is that the Hindus are not trying to kill Americans. The pig shit eating muslims are.
Posted by: greyrooster at August 22, 2006 10:49 AM (/GBNb)
32
Hi Friends
The Romans have gone, the Egyptions have gone, so have the Persians, and Assyrians and Mesopotamians.
We, Hindus and Jews, still survive. This silly name marketing ploy in Mumbai won't break our 6000 years of brotherhood and understanding
Your Friend
The Romans have gone, the Egyptions have gone, so have the Persians, and Assyrians and Mesopotamians.
We, Hindus and Jews, still survive. This silly name marketing ploy in Mumbai won't break our 6000 years of brotherhood and understanding
Your Friend
Posted by: Indian Hindu at August 22, 2006 11:24 AM (2CO/g)
33
No problem with Indian people opening a restaurant in India and naming it after Hitler!
Actually the tirades launched by Jewish groups is great publicity for the owners of the restaurant. Hope they make it a success.
Btw. My link is banned in Germany!
Actually the tirades launched by Jewish groups is great publicity for the owners of the restaurant. Hope they make it a success.
Btw. My link is banned in Germany!
Posted by: Hektor at August 22, 2006 12:58 PM (3OeM7)
34
The only thing the British deserve credit for was the railway system, and unifying India.
DT, You conveniently left out that they brought Western-style codified civil and criminal law, freed millions of people from serfdom, set the stage to free the whole populace from the tyranny of the caste system, and offered educational opportunities to many who would never have had the chance under native rule.
But the Brits, who did not have a resource rich nation of their own, also looted from India.
Oh Britain was, and is, rich in resources, but not enough to supply their dynamic, ever-growing economy. The success of the British people was due to their ability to exploit their available resources to the maximum extent, mainly through the freedom of individuals to own the wealth that they created, unlike in India, where the average person had zero chance of rising out of poverty. Not only could most Indians not own property, they were property, as they existed mostly in a state of chattel servitude.
They did not even spare the Taj Mahal's jewels or the Kohinoor Diamond.
Taking the spoils of conquest was a well-established tradition among India's native rulers long before the British arrived. Are you saying that only brown people have the right to loot and pillage?
They would buy cotton from India, then re-sell textiles made from that back to Indians at a high profit.
Which is wrong in what way? At least they were buying the cotton, and simply taking it, as they could have.
There was nothing admirable about their occupation of India.
Yet previous conquerers, who enslaved entire populations, were better because they had brown skin?
Indians learned from Brits, and Brits learned from Indians as well. The British were learning the Indians rocket power.
Which they got from the Chinese, probably in trade for opium.
They were awed when they battled Tipu Sultan (and lost) in South India. They took back the discharged rockets to England to study how they worked.
So they were wrong for absorbing this new, foreign technology?
Master planned cities, plumbing, irrigation, brain surgery, metallurgy were all being performed by Indians thousands of years ago - read up on the Mohenja Daro civilization.
All true, but totally irrelevant to the point.
The inventions of the engine were what modernized the world, not just India.
It's true that the engine helped technologically modernize the world, but technology alone does not make a modern civilization. The Nazi's made many technological advances that we use today, but does that mean their ideology was superior to ours?
I may be wrong, but I believe that just about all technological and ideological advances of the past five centuries originated from European societies, giving rise to the modern world. It was in Europe where the idea was first formed that the individual had an intrinsic worth beyond his or her station in life. It was in Europe where the idea of individual ownership of property, regardless of one's economic or cultural status, originated. It was in Europe where the political concepts of democracy and republican government were born. It was in Europe that Liberty was born.
They had rockets, which they did not develop, but simply purchased the technology, and we had individual rights, which we did develop. We brought them the idea of Liberty, and everyone won, but the tyrants. India is now a democracy, though it still falls far short of its potential due to the inability to shake off ancient beliefs, but it is rapidly becoming a modern civiliation in every sense of the word, but without a word of thanks.
DT, You conveniently left out that they brought Western-style codified civil and criminal law, freed millions of people from serfdom, set the stage to free the whole populace from the tyranny of the caste system, and offered educational opportunities to many who would never have had the chance under native rule.
But the Brits, who did not have a resource rich nation of their own, also looted from India.
Oh Britain was, and is, rich in resources, but not enough to supply their dynamic, ever-growing economy. The success of the British people was due to their ability to exploit their available resources to the maximum extent, mainly through the freedom of individuals to own the wealth that they created, unlike in India, where the average person had zero chance of rising out of poverty. Not only could most Indians not own property, they were property, as they existed mostly in a state of chattel servitude.
They did not even spare the Taj Mahal's jewels or the Kohinoor Diamond.
Taking the spoils of conquest was a well-established tradition among India's native rulers long before the British arrived. Are you saying that only brown people have the right to loot and pillage?
They would buy cotton from India, then re-sell textiles made from that back to Indians at a high profit.
Which is wrong in what way? At least they were buying the cotton, and simply taking it, as they could have.
There was nothing admirable about their occupation of India.
Yet previous conquerers, who enslaved entire populations, were better because they had brown skin?
Indians learned from Brits, and Brits learned from Indians as well. The British were learning the Indians rocket power.
Which they got from the Chinese, probably in trade for opium.
They were awed when they battled Tipu Sultan (and lost) in South India. They took back the discharged rockets to England to study how they worked.
So they were wrong for absorbing this new, foreign technology?
Master planned cities, plumbing, irrigation, brain surgery, metallurgy were all being performed by Indians thousands of years ago - read up on the Mohenja Daro civilization.
All true, but totally irrelevant to the point.
The inventions of the engine were what modernized the world, not just India.
It's true that the engine helped technologically modernize the world, but technology alone does not make a modern civilization. The Nazi's made many technological advances that we use today, but does that mean their ideology was superior to ours?
I may be wrong, but I believe that just about all technological and ideological advances of the past five centuries originated from European societies, giving rise to the modern world. It was in Europe where the idea was first formed that the individual had an intrinsic worth beyond his or her station in life. It was in Europe where the idea of individual ownership of property, regardless of one's economic or cultural status, originated. It was in Europe where the political concepts of democracy and republican government were born. It was in Europe that Liberty was born.
They had rockets, which they did not develop, but simply purchased the technology, and we had individual rights, which we did develop. We brought them the idea of Liberty, and everyone won, but the tyrants. India is now a democracy, though it still falls far short of its potential due to the inability to shake off ancient beliefs, but it is rapidly becoming a modern civiliation in every sense of the word, but without a word of thanks.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at August 22, 2006 01:08 PM (v3I+x)
35
Indian Hindu: But the damn muslims are still there. They are a problem on every continent. I thought you guys separated from them when Pakistan and Bangldesh were formed? Wasn't that the purpose? What happened?
Posted by: greyrooster at August 22, 2006 02:47 PM (/GBNb)
36
Posted by Hektor at August 22, 2006 12:58 PM
The only thing the British deserve credit for was the railway system, and unifying India.
"DT, You conveniently left out that they brought Western-style codified civil and criminal law, freed millions of people from serfdom, set the stage to free the whole populace from the tyranny of the caste system, and offered educational opportunities to many who would never have had the chance under native rule."
It is arguable if "Western style" codified civil and criminal law was superior, which you are implying here. There were a great many atrocities being committed in Europe as in the rest of the world. Under HINDU India, arts and education flourished. The oldest university in the world, for example, was an "Indian" university: Takshashila University (Taxila): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Universities_of_India Another ancient University is Nalanda University in India: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda_University founded prior to the 5th Century BC. the oldest European University is the University of Bologna, Italy which was founded in 1088 for example.
But the Brits, who did not have a resource rich nation of their own, also looted from India.
Oh Britain was, and is, rich in resources, but not enough to supply their dynamic, ever-growing economy. The success of the British people was due to their ability to exploit their available resources to the maximum extent, mainly through the freedom of individuals to own the wealth that they created, unlike in India, where the average person had zero chance of rising out of poverty. Not only could most Indians not own property, they were property, as they existed mostly in a state of chattel servitude.
There were masses of the peasant class in Europe at the time, they also lived in a state of servitude.
They did not even spare the Taj Mahal's jewels or the Kohinoor Diamond.
Taking the spoils of conquest was a well-established tradition among India's native rulers long before the British arrived. Are you saying that only brown people have the right to loot and pillage?
You talk of the British, that is what we are talking here, its not a question of white or brown... unless you're a racist and these things are the first things you see?
They would buy cotton from India, then re-sell textiles made from that back to Indians at a high profit.
Which is wrong in what way? At least they were buying the cotton, and simply taking it, as they could have.
It was wrong in the way your depicted everything being peachy and happy with the British occupation of India. It wasn't.
There was nothing admirable about their occupation of India.
Yet previous conquerers, who enslaved entire populations, were better because they had brown skin?
Again the brown skin. You seem to be preoccupied with melanin content.
Indians learned from Brits, and Brits learned from Indians as well. The British were learning the Indians rocket power.
Which they got from the Chinese, probably in trade for opium.
They were awed when they battled Tipu Sultan (and lost) in South India. They took back the discharged rockets to England to study how they worked.
So they were wrong for absorbing this new, foreign technology
No they weren't wrong, but the point is, they learned a lot from Indians as well. Read more at the following link: http://www.open2.net/whattheancients/indians.html
I suggest you stop confining your reading to Western only sources. They are very wrong in a number of ways, including what you will find in the link above, that 0, and 1-9 are Indian inventions, yet they are incorrectly labeled as Arab Numerals, they are in fact Indian.
I would agree that in the past 500 years, the West has seemingly contributed more to the world, but the West hasn't had to contend with Muslim Invasions the way India has. China had the benefit of being an isolationist civilization that never came out from under the rock until recent times. Civilizations go in cycles. Its good to be proud, but not to the point of arrogance. The way you seemingly pride European heritage, some Indians [wrongly imho] pride their heritage. They feel that Europeans were chucking spears when they were performing brain surgery. Civilizations rise and fall, but at the end of the day we're all human. Thats my take on it.
Posted by Hektor at August 22, 2006 12:58 PM
The only thing the British deserve credit for was the railway system, and unifying India.
"DT, You conveniently left out that they brought Western-style codified civil and criminal law, freed millions of people from serfdom, set the stage to free the whole populace from the tyranny of the caste system, and offered educational opportunities to many who would never have had the chance under native rule."
It is arguable if "Western style" codified civil and criminal law was superior, which you are implying here. There were a great many atrocities being committed in Europe as in the rest of the world. Under HINDU India, arts and education flourished. The oldest university in the world, for example, was an "Indian" university: Takshashila University (Taxila): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Universities_of_India Another ancient University is Nalanda University in India: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda_University founded prior to the 5th Century BC. the oldest European University is the University of Bologna, Italy which was founded in 1088 for example.
But the Brits, who did not have a resource rich nation of their own, also looted from India.
Oh Britain was, and is, rich in resources, but not enough to supply their dynamic, ever-growing economy. The success of the British people was due to their ability to exploit their available resources to the maximum extent, mainly through the freedom of individuals to own the wealth that they created, unlike in India, where the average person had zero chance of rising out of poverty. Not only could most Indians not own property, they were property, as they existed mostly in a state of chattel servitude.
There were masses of the peasant class in Europe at the time, they also lived in a state of servitude.
They did not even spare the Taj Mahal's jewels or the Kohinoor Diamond.
Taking the spoils of conquest was a well-established tradition among India's native rulers long before the British arrived. Are you saying that only brown people have the right to loot and pillage?
You talk of the British, that is what we are talking here, its not a question of white or brown... unless you're a racist and these things are the first things you see?
They would buy cotton from India, then re-sell textiles made from that back to Indians at a high profit.
Which is wrong in what way? At least they were buying the cotton, and simply taking it, as they could have.
It was wrong in the way your depicted everything being peachy and happy with the British occupation of India. It wasn't.
There was nothing admirable about their occupation of India.
Yet previous conquerers, who enslaved entire populations, were better because they had brown skin?
Again the brown skin. You seem to be preoccupied with melanin content.
Indians learned from Brits, and Brits learned from Indians as well. The British were learning the Indians rocket power.
Which they got from the Chinese, probably in trade for opium.
They were awed when they battled Tipu Sultan (and lost) in South India. They took back the discharged rockets to England to study how they worked.
So they were wrong for absorbing this new, foreign technology
No they weren't wrong, but the point is, they learned a lot from Indians as well. Read more at the following link: http://www.open2.net/whattheancients/indians.html
I suggest you stop confining your reading to Western only sources. They are very wrong in a number of ways, including what you will find in the link above, that 0, and 1-9 are Indian inventions, yet they are incorrectly labeled as Arab Numerals, they are in fact Indian.
I would agree that in the past 500 years, the West has seemingly contributed more to the world, but the West hasn't had to contend with Muslim Invasions the way India has. China had the benefit of being an isolationist civilization that never came out from under the rock until recent times. Civilizations go in cycles. Its good to be proud, but not to the point of arrogance. The way you seemingly pride European heritage, some Indians [wrongly imho] pride their heritage. They feel that Europeans were chucking spears when they were performing brain surgery. Civilizations rise and fall, but at the end of the day we're all human. Thats my take on it.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 22, 2006 06:09 PM (dwRGy)
37
Greyrooster:
For good or bad, one thing about Hindus is they are peace loving people. Here was the deal during partition (Believe it or not):
Muslims got to carve out their own land and form Pakistan. Only Muslims allowed (publicly they stated it would be secular, but only a very, very, very small group of non-muslims stayed back, like 3-5%.) There was ethnic cleansing to ensure that it was ONLY Muslim land.
Indian Hindus told the Muslims they can go to Pakistan OR stay. They got a real choice. Many stayed back. Many went to Pakistan and came back years later after realizing that the conditions there were more pathetic (it was an Islamic state afterall), OR that they were mistreated. Indian Muslims who came from areas that were not indigenous to this newly formed nation of Pakistan (i.e. the state of Punjab) were mistreated and called "Mohajirs." They looked different, wore different clothes, spoke differently, etc. and were mistreated by the Punjabi Pakistanis, so many came back to India, and were welcomed back by Hindus.
Crazy, isn't it?
For good or bad, one thing about Hindus is they are peace loving people. Here was the deal during partition (Believe it or not):
Muslims got to carve out their own land and form Pakistan. Only Muslims allowed (publicly they stated it would be secular, but only a very, very, very small group of non-muslims stayed back, like 3-5%.) There was ethnic cleansing to ensure that it was ONLY Muslim land.
Indian Hindus told the Muslims they can go to Pakistan OR stay. They got a real choice. Many stayed back. Many went to Pakistan and came back years later after realizing that the conditions there were more pathetic (it was an Islamic state afterall), OR that they were mistreated. Indian Muslims who came from areas that were not indigenous to this newly formed nation of Pakistan (i.e. the state of Punjab) were mistreated and called "Mohajirs." They looked different, wore different clothes, spoke differently, etc. and were mistreated by the Punjabi Pakistanis, so many came back to India, and were welcomed back by Hindus.
Crazy, isn't it?
Posted by: DT2004 at August 22, 2006 06:29 PM (dwRGy)
38
Punit Shablok is a Hindu name but that doesn't mean he's a Hindu! Most of the restaurant patrons are Bollywood elite - a bunch of spoilt brats who no self-respecting Hindu would want to associate with. All the same, I am saddened by the insensitivity and ignorance of some Indians.
Posted by: Hindu at August 22, 2006 08:05 PM (S3F2p)
39
DT2004 -- I agree with what you wrote, but in all fairness, one must point out that there are very vicious Hindu fanatical groups as well such as the Shiv Sena, VHP, BJP, RSS and others.
Most Westerners don't know about this fact, including myself.
They are not peaceful Hindus by any stretch of the imagination and don't say they are not real Hindus. In fact, if you see & read what these groups are saying, they are exactly laying claim to being true Hindus!
They are Hindu terrorists groups, without doubt. The equivalent of what the Muslims have going in their own messed up house. In both cases (thankfully to us!), they are the minority in their religions.
Most Westerners don't know about this fact, including myself.
They are not peaceful Hindus by any stretch of the imagination and don't say they are not real Hindus. In fact, if you see & read what these groups are saying, they are exactly laying claim to being true Hindus!
They are Hindu terrorists groups, without doubt. The equivalent of what the Muslims have going in their own messed up house. In both cases (thankfully to us!), they are the minority in their religions.
Posted by: Kloss at August 22, 2006 08:18 PM (LBfaS)
40
DT2004, I have recently read a short history of the Muslim incursions into the Hindu and Buddist areas of Afghanistan and India, which included Pakistan, and I tell you I was sickened by the brutality of it all. No where else in the World has the slaughter of innocents ever compared to the slaughter of the Hindus by Muslim invaders. Mahmud of Ghazni and Muhammed of Ghor were truly beasts, and frankly, I do not know how the Hindus can even stand to see a Muslim after what was done to them by these beasts.
Posted by: jesusland joe at August 22, 2006 08:40 PM (rUyw4)
41
Hi Friends,
The conquests happened a long time ago and Indian Muslims have made great contributions to India, like Abdul Kalam (current President and father of the Indian missile technology industry). Also Bollywood's leading actors are Indian Muslims, like Shah Rukh Khan. The issue India has is with Pakistan, which was created for Indian Muslims, but now only contains 25% of Muslims of South Asia - the rest being in India (14% of population [140 million people and Bangaladesh [120 million people]). In addition, we should not forget the contributions in terms of historical buildings (Taj Mahal) and literature, music and poetry.
Indian Hindus are in the process of rediscovering their own roots and rebuilding Hindu Indian society. This process is well underway and needs to be done without harming India's other citizens.
Thanks, Indian Hindu
The conquests happened a long time ago and Indian Muslims have made great contributions to India, like Abdul Kalam (current President and father of the Indian missile technology industry). Also Bollywood's leading actors are Indian Muslims, like Shah Rukh Khan. The issue India has is with Pakistan, which was created for Indian Muslims, but now only contains 25% of Muslims of South Asia - the rest being in India (14% of population [140 million people and Bangaladesh [120 million people]). In addition, we should not forget the contributions in terms of historical buildings (Taj Mahal) and literature, music and poetry.
Indian Hindus are in the process of rediscovering their own roots and rebuilding Hindu Indian society. This process is well underway and needs to be done without harming India's other citizens.
Thanks, Indian Hindu
Posted by: Indian Hindu at August 23, 2006 03:38 AM (w4INs)
42
Indian Hindu: Thank you for the pleasing history lesson. I do hope for the best for India. I have always be facinated with Indian history. Where you fail is in your apparent trust of muslims. Their relion insists that yours must perish. As they grow in power to will see more and more civil disturbance and bombings. Hindu and muslim will again be in the streets killing each other. It's the muslim way. They will not change. Good luck.
Posted by: greyrooster at August 23, 2006 06:41 AM (dQaun)
43
People! It is a resturant! Its success will depend solely on the food - not the decor. Kinda like a Planet Bollywood - bad investmnent!
So - what's on the menu - I love German food! All the Iron Crosses and portaints of Hitler will never compensate for a bad jagersnitzel!
So - what's on the menu - I love German food! All the Iron Crosses and portaints of Hitler will never compensate for a bad jagersnitzel!
Posted by: hondo at August 23, 2006 07:34 AM (XrexX)
44
Do they have Pilsen on tap?
Posted by: hondo at August 23, 2006 07:35 AM (XrexX)
45
Dear Greyrooster
Its not so simple in India. India is secular and has no state religion. Thats the score in India. The republic's falg is saffron (Hindu/ Sikh) and Green (Islam) with White (Islam). The Hindu State does not exist. The nationalist parties would like to set it up, but in the last election they lost power in the Federal centre to the communist and centraist parties. The Hindu State India ended in 2004 with that defeat. The communists and centraists are opposed to the concept of the Hindu State.
We have huge problems; muslims killing hindus, hindus killing muslims, muslims killing muslims, and hindus also killing each other. Check the Times of India or CNNIBN websites and you will see that there.
Also, Histler wasn't Islamic.
Thanks, Indian Hindu
Its not so simple in India. India is secular and has no state religion. Thats the score in India. The republic's falg is saffron (Hindu/ Sikh) and Green (Islam) with White (Islam). The Hindu State does not exist. The nationalist parties would like to set it up, but in the last election they lost power in the Federal centre to the communist and centraist parties. The Hindu State India ended in 2004 with that defeat. The communists and centraists are opposed to the concept of the Hindu State.
We have huge problems; muslims killing hindus, hindus killing muslims, muslims killing muslims, and hindus also killing each other. Check the Times of India or CNNIBN websites and you will see that there.
Also, Histler wasn't Islamic.
Thanks, Indian Hindu
Posted by: Indian Hindu at August 23, 2006 08:49 AM (w4INs)
46
I think the owner was just too stupid, even though the brand name got him free publicity; India has no history of anti- semitism and Jews have never been targets like in Europe & Middle East.
Under Indian law once the local jewish community has protested about the offence caused by the brand name, the owner will have to drop the offensive name or face legal action.
The symbol swastika is not associated with the Nazis or Hitler in India, it is infact an old symbol which is seen in most Indian homes & many businesses, however the name Hitler is clearly offensive and only a idiot will think otherwise.
I dont see anything here more than gross stupidity & insensitivity on part of the owner in choosing such a heinous brand name.
Under Indian law once the local jewish community has protested about the offence caused by the brand name, the owner will have to drop the offensive name or face legal action.
The symbol swastika is not associated with the Nazis or Hitler in India, it is infact an old symbol which is seen in most Indian homes & many businesses, however the name Hitler is clearly offensive and only a idiot will think otherwise.
I dont see anything here more than gross stupidity & insensitivity on part of the owner in choosing such a heinous brand name.
Posted by: XM at August 23, 2006 09:12 AM (2ZI6Y)
47
I think "Indian Hindu" is really a Muslim, or one of those Muslim-loving fake Hindus who think they can change reality by spouting a bunch of lies. How many know that the Taj Mahal was a Hindu monument? And that the Muslim emperor cut off the hands of all his architects so they would never build something like that again?
Literature, music and poetry - Hindus were pioneers in this field. Muslim invaders burnt down the ancient libraries of India.
As for Bollywood and Shah Rukh Khan - enough said! Another B'Wood actor (Salman Khan) and three Muslim actresses were recently implicated in a poaching case on Hindu land. Please don't bring up Bollywood as a sign of achievement. It was a Bollywood actor (a 'Hindu' and I am embarrassed to call him one) who said this restaurant was 'amusing'.
Literature, music and poetry - Hindus were pioneers in this field. Muslim invaders burnt down the ancient libraries of India.
As for Bollywood and Shah Rukh Khan - enough said! Another B'Wood actor (Salman Khan) and three Muslim actresses were recently implicated in a poaching case on Hindu land. Please don't bring up Bollywood as a sign of achievement. It was a Bollywood actor (a 'Hindu' and I am embarrassed to call him one) who said this restaurant was 'amusing'.
Posted by: Another Indian Hindu at August 23, 2006 09:54 AM (/yWdi)
48
Indian Hindu --
You sound like a wise and calm person. thanks for calming the out-of-control rhetoric here.
Grey Rooster -- a lesson to you that your attempts to constantly skew things in favor of your world view may not work with everyone, especially against the facts baby!
You sound like a wise and calm person. thanks for calming the out-of-control rhetoric here.
Grey Rooster -- a lesson to you that your attempts to constantly skew things in favor of your world view may not work with everyone, especially against the facts baby!
Posted by: Kloss at August 23, 2006 09:55 AM (LBfaS)
49
So - how is the jagersnitzel?
Posted by: hondo at August 23, 2006 10:14 AM (XrexX)
50
I hate to say this, but I do believe my Hindu friends are going to suffer horribly under resurgent Islam, and make no mistake, radical Islam is rearing its ugly head in India, and it will get worse. The wahhabism being spread through mosques worldwide preaching Islamic supremism is causing violence in Africa and other parts of Asia. Recent events in India prove me to be correct. I hate it for my Indian friends, but pray they will not lie down and take it, even though they are a peaceful people.
Posted by: jesusland joe at August 23, 2006 10:48 AM (rUyw4)
51
The reason why people in India want someone like HITLER is because they want the Indian MUSLIMS out of India.It is really funny that a muslim start such a restaurant, the OWNER'S REAL NAME IS SHABIR SIDDIQUE. Firstly ALMOST EVERY HINDU supports ISRAEL and U.S.ISRAEL has always helped India in every war by supplying us arms.MOSSAD-RAW have had great relations.
WE INDIANS(everyone apart from Muslims) CANNOT STAND THE MUSLIMS. So we need a leader to teach this community a lesson.India has suffered the most because of this community. I as a peace loving person respect every religion from sikhism,christianity,buddhism,parsees(iranians),
judaism,etc.But I DO NOT RESPECT ISLAM.
Another important point , is INDIA IS THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT HAS TREATED JEWS WITH THE HIGHEST RESPECT AND DIGNITY.Two of the most ancient jewish tribes reside in India.
WE INDIANS(everyone apart from Muslims) CANNOT STAND THE MUSLIMS. So we need a leader to teach this community a lesson.India has suffered the most because of this community. I as a peace loving person respect every religion from sikhism,christianity,buddhism,parsees(iranians),
judaism,etc.But I DO NOT RESPECT ISLAM.
Another important point , is INDIA IS THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT HAS TREATED JEWS WITH THE HIGHEST RESPECT AND DIGNITY.Two of the most ancient jewish tribes reside in India.
Posted by: The Hindu India. at August 23, 2006 11:39 AM (IY71c)
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Great comment JESUSLAND JOE.
I am scared , and so are other Indians(except muslims). Why am I scared? because every time a NATIONALIST party wants to do something for the country by bringing these "IDIOTIC MUSLIMS" to task, you have stupid" SECULARISTS" giving us a lecture on how " EVERY MUSLIM IS NOT A TERRORIST".
I respect my PRESIDENT a lot. And everytime I meet an educated MUSLIM , who loves his nation I feel ashamed. but for every one of those guys , there are a 1000 fundamentalists Muslims in India.IMO , IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THIS TERRORIST RELIGION IS WIPED OUT.Even though they have 1 good muslim in a 1000 ,it is sad but all of them have to be wiped out.
I fear for Israel and my country because we are the only countries surrounded by radical , fundamentalists mullahs who are willing to blow up people for their so called " PARADISE , VIRGINS AND YOUNG BOYS"(HAHAHA).
I am scared , and so are other Indians(except muslims). Why am I scared? because every time a NATIONALIST party wants to do something for the country by bringing these "IDIOTIC MUSLIMS" to task, you have stupid" SECULARISTS" giving us a lecture on how " EVERY MUSLIM IS NOT A TERRORIST".
I respect my PRESIDENT a lot. And everytime I meet an educated MUSLIM , who loves his nation I feel ashamed. but for every one of those guys , there are a 1000 fundamentalists Muslims in India.IMO , IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THIS TERRORIST RELIGION IS WIPED OUT.Even though they have 1 good muslim in a 1000 ,it is sad but all of them have to be wiped out.
I fear for Israel and my country because we are the only countries surrounded by radical , fundamentalists mullahs who are willing to blow up people for their so called " PARADISE , VIRGINS AND YOUNG BOYS"(HAHAHA).
Posted by: Indian Hindu at August 23, 2006 11:50 AM (IY71c)
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It is arguable if "Western style" codified civil and criminal law was superior, which you are implying here.
Well, yes, that is exactly what I was implying, and it is superior, because it culminated the the U.S. Constitution, specifically the Bill of Rights, which is now the universal model if a people want to establish a free country and fair system of government. Can you think of one better?
There were a great many atrocities being committed in Europe as in the rest of the world.
Yep, and we've long gotten past all that, but the non-Western world hasn't. Next.
Under HINDU India, arts and education flourished. The oldest university in the world, for example, was an "Indian" university: Takshashila University (Taxila): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Universities_of_India Another ancient University is Nalanda University in India: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda_University founded prior to the 5th Century BC. the oldest European University is the University of Bologna, Italy which was founded in 1088 for example.
And of course you make no mention of the Academy at Athens, birthplace of democracy, at roughly the same time period. You are an anti-Western hack.
There were masses of the peasant class in Europe at the time, they also lived in a state of servitude.
Yep, and many of them escaped to America, where they founded the apex of Western civilization. It's the journey and struggle, not a time, place, or circumstances, that define Liberty. What has India or any other non-Western nation contributed to the cause of Liberty?
You talk of the British, that is what we are talking here, its not a question of white or brown... unless you're a racist and these things are the first things you see?
You, my dear dishonest hypocrite, are the one who speaks only of the British, as if they were the only ones who had ever made war in India. You're a liar hypocrite, plain and simple.
It was wrong in the way your depicted everything being peachy and happy with the British occupation of India. It wasn't.
I never said "peachy" or "happy". Now you're a liar. Next strawman please.
Again the brown skin. You seem to be preoccupied with melanin content.
And again you dodge the issue. Why do you only pick on the British? Hypocrite, liar, and now racist.
I suggest you stop confining your reading to Western only sources. They are very wrong in a number of ways, including what you will find in the link above, that 0, and 1-9 are Indian inventions, yet they are incorrectly labeled as Arab Numerals, they are in fact Indian.
I have read more about India, from various sources, than you ever will, because the history of civilizations is one of my interests, and your lying, hypocrisy, racism, and ad hominem attacks just go to show how hollow and shallow your argument is.
I would agree that in the past 500 years, the West has seemingly contributed more to the world, but the West hasn't had to contend with Muslim Invasions the way India has.
So when the Turks were besieging Europe, they weren't muslim then? When Europe was forming and defining itself through internicine warfare for five hundred years, that doesn't count?
China had the benefit of being an isolationist civilization that never came out from under the rock until recent times. Civilizations go in cycles.
Yes, and Chinese civilization has completely collapsed on at least three occasions, and is on its fourth ascendancy - with Western ideas and technology leading the way.
Its good to be proud, but not to the point of arrogance.
Ah, the old arrogance accusation. I was wondering when you'd get around to that. It shows that you really know, deep down, that I'm right, and you can't stand it. Loser.
The way you seemingly pride European heritage, some Indians [wrongly imho] pride their heritage.
It's not about pride, but results. I have nothing against India, and love its culture, but it has directly contributed little to the advancement of humanity.
They feel that Europeans were chucking spears when they were performing brain surgery.
That part is true, but Europe doesn't have India's rich soil or long growing season, both of which contributed to the early rise of civilization there.
Civilizations rise and fall, but at the end of the day we're all human. Thats my take on it.
Except white people, who are devils.
Well, yes, that is exactly what I was implying, and it is superior, because it culminated the the U.S. Constitution, specifically the Bill of Rights, which is now the universal model if a people want to establish a free country and fair system of government. Can you think of one better?
There were a great many atrocities being committed in Europe as in the rest of the world.
Yep, and we've long gotten past all that, but the non-Western world hasn't. Next.
Under HINDU India, arts and education flourished. The oldest university in the world, for example, was an "Indian" university: Takshashila University (Taxila): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Universities_of_India Another ancient University is Nalanda University in India: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda_University founded prior to the 5th Century BC. the oldest European University is the University of Bologna, Italy which was founded in 1088 for example.
And of course you make no mention of the Academy at Athens, birthplace of democracy, at roughly the same time period. You are an anti-Western hack.
There were masses of the peasant class in Europe at the time, they also lived in a state of servitude.
Yep, and many of them escaped to America, where they founded the apex of Western civilization. It's the journey and struggle, not a time, place, or circumstances, that define Liberty. What has India or any other non-Western nation contributed to the cause of Liberty?
You talk of the British, that is what we are talking here, its not a question of white or brown... unless you're a racist and these things are the first things you see?
You, my dear dishonest hypocrite, are the one who speaks only of the British, as if they were the only ones who had ever made war in India. You're a liar hypocrite, plain and simple.
It was wrong in the way your depicted everything being peachy and happy with the British occupation of India. It wasn't.
I never said "peachy" or "happy". Now you're a liar. Next strawman please.
Again the brown skin. You seem to be preoccupied with melanin content.
And again you dodge the issue. Why do you only pick on the British? Hypocrite, liar, and now racist.
I suggest you stop confining your reading to Western only sources. They are very wrong in a number of ways, including what you will find in the link above, that 0, and 1-9 are Indian inventions, yet they are incorrectly labeled as Arab Numerals, they are in fact Indian.
I have read more about India, from various sources, than you ever will, because the history of civilizations is one of my interests, and your lying, hypocrisy, racism, and ad hominem attacks just go to show how hollow and shallow your argument is.
I would agree that in the past 500 years, the West has seemingly contributed more to the world, but the West hasn't had to contend with Muslim Invasions the way India has.
So when the Turks were besieging Europe, they weren't muslim then? When Europe was forming and defining itself through internicine warfare for five hundred years, that doesn't count?
China had the benefit of being an isolationist civilization that never came out from under the rock until recent times. Civilizations go in cycles.
Yes, and Chinese civilization has completely collapsed on at least three occasions, and is on its fourth ascendancy - with Western ideas and technology leading the way.
Its good to be proud, but not to the point of arrogance.
Ah, the old arrogance accusation. I was wondering when you'd get around to that. It shows that you really know, deep down, that I'm right, and you can't stand it. Loser.
The way you seemingly pride European heritage, some Indians [wrongly imho] pride their heritage.
It's not about pride, but results. I have nothing against India, and love its culture, but it has directly contributed little to the advancement of humanity.
They feel that Europeans were chucking spears when they were performing brain surgery.
That part is true, but Europe doesn't have India's rich soil or long growing season, both of which contributed to the early rise of civilization there.
Civilizations rise and fall, but at the end of the day we're all human. Thats my take on it.
Except white people, who are devils.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at August 23, 2006 12:07 PM (v3I+x)
54
Kloss: Always a dickhead pops out with every conversation. I will let the other contributors from India answer your statement. Seems like 4 of 5 seems to disagree with your comment.
But keep kissing those muslim asses. I'm sure you are helping peaceful nations like India with your BS.
But keep kissing those muslim asses. I'm sure you are helping peaceful nations like India with your BS.
Posted by: greyrooster at August 23, 2006 12:48 PM (QIUU7)
55
HAHAHAH kloss seems to have a very warped meaning of Terrorism.
See , Shiv Sena , BJP, RSS AND VHP have not planted bombs in India.They run some of the best ("MODERN") Institutions in the country. They have also helped masses in a lot of ways. And , if these parties really wanted to be a terrorist outfit they would have gone ona rampage and killed muslims. The very fact that muslim population(in india) has increased from 9% to 19% disproves your so called "TERRORIST" claims. And , if these parties wanted to be another NAZI regime they would have slaughtered muslims when they came to power.So there goes your "RUBBISH" into the trash can.SO PLEASE GIVE THESE THEORIES TO SOME OTHER SECULAR FOOL , WHO WILL NOD HIS HEAD IN APPROVAL.
So by your definition ISRAEL AND G.BUSH are terrorists too? heheheheheh . If you are one of those "IGNORANT AMERICANS" and does not understand the situation in India , then you just have the Holier than Thou attitude. And , if you are a "SECULAR IDIOT" then please post the same comments when those islamic terrorists place a bomb in a train in which your parents are travelling.
BEFORE PEOPLE JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS , I SUPPORT G.BUSH AND ISRAEL, and the SHIV SENA , BJP , VHP , RSS.The problem is with their religion and the islamic terrorists and NOT WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE FINDING FAULT WITH THE RELIGION.
See , Shiv Sena , BJP, RSS AND VHP have not planted bombs in India.They run some of the best ("MODERN") Institutions in the country. They have also helped masses in a lot of ways. And , if these parties really wanted to be a terrorist outfit they would have gone ona rampage and killed muslims. The very fact that muslim population(in india) has increased from 9% to 19% disproves your so called "TERRORIST" claims. And , if these parties wanted to be another NAZI regime they would have slaughtered muslims when they came to power.So there goes your "RUBBISH" into the trash can.SO PLEASE GIVE THESE THEORIES TO SOME OTHER SECULAR FOOL , WHO WILL NOD HIS HEAD IN APPROVAL.
So by your definition ISRAEL AND G.BUSH are terrorists too? heheheheheh . If you are one of those "IGNORANT AMERICANS" and does not understand the situation in India , then you just have the Holier than Thou attitude. And , if you are a "SECULAR IDIOT" then please post the same comments when those islamic terrorists place a bomb in a train in which your parents are travelling.
BEFORE PEOPLE JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS , I SUPPORT G.BUSH AND ISRAEL, and the SHIV SENA , BJP , VHP , RSS.The problem is with their religion and the islamic terrorists and NOT WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE FINDING FAULT WITH THE RELIGION.
Posted by: Indian at August 23, 2006 01:35 PM (IY71c)
56
Just a thought ... ASSUMING , the HINDU POPULATION in India was 19% , do you think the HINDUS would survive in MUSLIM INDIA?
Just to quote figures , the Hindu population in BANGLADESH has fallen from 26% to 6%.
The Hindu popluation is barely 2000 in Pakistan.
Just to quote figures , the Hindu population in BANGLADESH has fallen from 26% to 6%.
The Hindu popluation is barely 2000 in Pakistan.
Posted by: Indian at August 23, 2006 01:42 PM (IY71c)
57
Just a thought ... ASSUMING , the HINDU POPULATION in India was 19% , do you think the HINDUS would survive in MUSLIM INDIA?
Just to quote figures , the Hindu population in BANGLADESH has fallen from 26% to 6%.
The Hindu popluation is barely 2000 in Pakistan.
Just to quote figures , the Hindu population in BANGLADESH has fallen from 26% to 6%.
The Hindu popluation is barely 2000 in Pakistan.
Posted by: Hindu at August 23, 2006 01:43 PM (IY71c)
58
Greyrooster --- insult me Yes, but provide your own response, you have not!
Come on guys, all those who are posting about how Islam/Muslims need to be wiped out, are the worst thing to happen to India, etc etc --- why hide behind your terrorism reason?
You hate Muslims and Islam and that's the only reason there is even some Westerners who support Hindus --- equal hatred of Islam.
But that's OK to hate them. Just don't make make flimsy & revealing arguments as to why you do. Be bold enough to state your intention. But then, what would you guys really have to talk about?
And to the one who posted "IMO , IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THIS TERRORIST RELIGION IS WIPED OUT" ....
are you really that much of an ignorant ostrich with your head in the sand? the fact is the exact obvious, that it is among the fastest growing religions on the planet.
This, in addition to the 1.2 Billion Muslims that already exist.
Muslims ruled India for hundreds of years --- and yet, majority of India is Hindu. That in of itself shows the ignorant posters here that they have their facts all messed up about history.
Greyrooster --- insult me Yes, but provide your own response, you have not!
Come on guys, all those who are posting about how Islam/Muslims need to be wiped out, are the worst thing to happen to India, etc etc --- why hide behind your terrorism reason?
You hate Muslims and Islam and that's the only reason there is even some Westerners who support Hindus --- equal hatred of Islam.
But that's OK to hate them. Just don't make make flimsy & revealing arguments as to why you do. Be bold enough to state your intention. But then, what would you guys really have to talk about?
And to the one who posted "IMO , IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THIS TERRORIST RELIGION IS WIPED OUT" ....
are you really that much of an ignorant ostrich with your head in the sand? the fact is the exact obvious, that it is among the fastest growing religions on the planet.
This, in addition to the 1.2 Billion Muslims that already exist.
Muslims ruled India for hundreds of years --- and yet, majority of India is Hindu. That in of itself shows the ignorant posters here that they have their facts all messed up about history.
Posted by: Kloss at August 23, 2006 04:07 PM (LBfaS)
59
Hindus are very cool people. Jews and Hindus get along better than almost any people. Brothers against the Islamic Terrorist that try to ruin the peace..
Posted by: Mark at August 23, 2006 05:25 PM (4/O/w)
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Kloss: You said that the majority of India is Hindu despite being ruled by Muslims. This comment is steeped in ignorance! First of all, Greater India (before Islam arrived) included present day Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Afghanistan and parts of Myanmar. Excluding Myanmar and modern India,all of these countries have a huge (>95%) Muslim majority! Current political borders did not exist in those days. The real borders were with the Zoroastrians (Iran) on the west and Buddhists (China) on the east. Look up a map and see the size of that land area. Then look at the size of current day India.
The Muslims only set India back 1000 years with their medieval customs, misogyny, violence, weird dress etc. Add some Victorian rule to the mix and many modern Hindus don't even realize what their true culture is. Sati, dowry,misogyny etc arose from a mix of Islam, Victorian customs and contemporary poverty and ignorance.
The Muslims only set India back 1000 years with their medieval customs, misogyny, violence, weird dress etc. Add some Victorian rule to the mix and many modern Hindus don't even realize what their true culture is. Sati, dowry,misogyny etc arose from a mix of Islam, Victorian customs and contemporary poverty and ignorance.
Posted by: Another Indian Hindu at August 23, 2006 05:37 PM (RKRr/)
61
Islam is the world's fastest growing religion for one reason & one reason only - birth rate. They've got the highest birth rate on the planet with no signs of slow down - especially arabs.
Posted by: hondo at August 23, 2006 05:46 PM (XrexX)
62
Just a word of advice:
Keep in mind that Muslims rarely post on blogs under the name Ahmed or Ibrahim or whatever. I have seen Muslims posting under 'Western' names to grant legitimacy to their comments. They will do anything to drive a wedge between their enemies, such as accusing Hindus of non-existent anti-semitism or even posting under Hindu names. Check out the tells of 'Joshua' at YNet.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3293949,00.html
Wanna bet his/her real name is Jamal or Jameela?
Keep in mind that Muslims rarely post on blogs under the name Ahmed or Ibrahim or whatever. I have seen Muslims posting under 'Western' names to grant legitimacy to their comments. They will do anything to drive a wedge between their enemies, such as accusing Hindus of non-existent anti-semitism or even posting under Hindu names. Check out the tells of 'Joshua' at YNet.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3293949,00.html
Wanna bet his/her real name is Jamal or Jameela?
Posted by: Another Indian Hindu\ at August 23, 2006 05:55 PM (RKRr/)
63
Hondo ---
Again, your internal hatred for Islam & Muslims shows through your argument.
I told you Islam is among the fastest growing religions in the world. Let me ADD to that, that here in the United States, it is the fastest growing religion as well, soon to overtake Judaism in 10-20 years -- and the birth rate of Muslims is relatively equal to Christians! How do you explain that? Do some simple Google research and off of Christian websites and they will point to the "conversion" factor as the main cause.
Conversion is high, look around the world. That's why so many Christian groups are engaging in active evangelical work here in the U.S.A and abroad, because so many people are converting to Islam.
What's my point? That it cannot be "wiped" or destroyed as suggested by that simpleton poster earlier. It is the 2nd largest religion in the world, even though it is the youngest religion of such caliber in history and this "success" cannot be ignored and don't put your head in the sand about it. You must deal with Islam through something much different than your personal hatred and centuries-old animosity!
You guys come here it seems, to share in the community of equal Muslim haters. Hate the Islamic terrorists but what you got going here is pretty sad and pathetic.
I would guarantee that the majority of you (especially Indian Hindus) hide these thoughts from your Muslim counterparts (if you have any). If you believe in something, don't be afraid to say it directly. Otherwise you know what you really are.
Again, your internal hatred for Islam & Muslims shows through your argument.
I told you Islam is among the fastest growing religions in the world. Let me ADD to that, that here in the United States, it is the fastest growing religion as well, soon to overtake Judaism in 10-20 years -- and the birth rate of Muslims is relatively equal to Christians! How do you explain that? Do some simple Google research and off of Christian websites and they will point to the "conversion" factor as the main cause.
Conversion is high, look around the world. That's why so many Christian groups are engaging in active evangelical work here in the U.S.A and abroad, because so many people are converting to Islam.
What's my point? That it cannot be "wiped" or destroyed as suggested by that simpleton poster earlier. It is the 2nd largest religion in the world, even though it is the youngest religion of such caliber in history and this "success" cannot be ignored and don't put your head in the sand about it. You must deal with Islam through something much different than your personal hatred and centuries-old animosity!
You guys come here it seems, to share in the community of equal Muslim haters. Hate the Islamic terrorists but what you got going here is pretty sad and pathetic.
I would guarantee that the majority of you (especially Indian Hindus) hide these thoughts from your Muslim counterparts (if you have any). If you believe in something, don't be afraid to say it directly. Otherwise you know what you really are.
Posted by: Kloss at August 23, 2006 08:08 PM (LBfaS)
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Hit a nerve huh? Just got tired of that often repeated BS about world's fastest growing religion as if it is suppose to be some shining indicator of special validity.
And BS it is - part of a public relations spin on the face of islam.
Most people don't bother to check - but islamic countries do indeed have the highest birthrates which almost solely account for islam's growth - nothing special there unless you want to play semantics with it and alter its meaning to something "islamicly mystical".
The conversion crap is just that - more PR designed to give some glowing image.
And BS it is - part of a public relations spin on the face of islam.
Most people don't bother to check - but islamic countries do indeed have the highest birthrates which almost solely account for islam's growth - nothing special there unless you want to play semantics with it and alter its meaning to something "islamicly mystical".
The conversion crap is just that - more PR designed to give some glowing image.
Posted by: hondo at August 23, 2006 10:11 PM (XrexX)
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I don't hate islam - don't advocate death to all, destroy them etc - everybody here knows that (I'm a softy) - don't fear it either.
Truth is - I don't give a flying fuck about islam, mohammed, or any of your shit - I have no respect for islam and am totally indifferent to it.
That's the problem, isn't it. Most here don't realize that what muslims want is to be acknowledged, respected, and feared - you want your place recognized in world civilization for today and tommarrow.
That is what you want kloss - and I say - fuck off & die - I ain't giving you or islam jackshit.
Truth is - I don't give a flying fuck about islam, mohammed, or any of your shit - I have no respect for islam and am totally indifferent to it.
That's the problem, isn't it. Most here don't realize that what muslims want is to be acknowledged, respected, and feared - you want your place recognized in world civilization for today and tommarrow.
That is what you want kloss - and I say - fuck off & die - I ain't giving you or islam jackshit.
Posted by: hondo at August 23, 2006 10:22 PM (XrexX)
66
Point numbr one: I am a Hindu from India.
Point number two; I am not surprised that the Indian government banned bloggs as the poison here is far too strong. What purpose does hating anyone serve? Will it bring back the Mauryan Empire? What do people want; one set of Indians to wage war on another set?? This is not right.
Point number three; As for defending India, I put my full trust in the Indian military, the RAW, and state police, and leaders. I also trust India's international friends; Israel and America and other friends like Indonesia, Malaysia and Egypt.
Point number five; You are right about what happened to Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh. But that is the reason why those nations are facing a grim future. The same cannot be said for Hindus in Oman, Indonesia, Malaysia, non Taliban Afghanistan. I am not defending the lack of liberalism in the Muslims Middle East. But turing India, or for that matter the US and Israel, into Saudi US and Saudi India will not help our economic growth rates. The futire belongs to nations that are generally liberal, democratic, and free.
I don't know about anyone, but I do not have issues with people. I have Indian Muslim friends and friends of all religions, including Jews. There will NOT be any progress in the world if we move away from the concepts of freedom, secularism, and democracy.
Indian Hindu
Point number two; I am not surprised that the Indian government banned bloggs as the poison here is far too strong. What purpose does hating anyone serve? Will it bring back the Mauryan Empire? What do people want; one set of Indians to wage war on another set?? This is not right.
Point number three; As for defending India, I put my full trust in the Indian military, the RAW, and state police, and leaders. I also trust India's international friends; Israel and America and other friends like Indonesia, Malaysia and Egypt.
Point number five; You are right about what happened to Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh. But that is the reason why those nations are facing a grim future. The same cannot be said for Hindus in Oman, Indonesia, Malaysia, non Taliban Afghanistan. I am not defending the lack of liberalism in the Muslims Middle East. But turing India, or for that matter the US and Israel, into Saudi US and Saudi India will not help our economic growth rates. The futire belongs to nations that are generally liberal, democratic, and free.
I don't know about anyone, but I do not have issues with people. I have Indian Muslim friends and friends of all religions, including Jews. There will NOT be any progress in the world if we move away from the concepts of freedom, secularism, and democracy.
Indian Hindu
Posted by: Indian Hindu at August 24, 2006 03:23 AM (w4INs)
67
This whole debate is as stupid and ignorant as the name of this eatery. All you do is quarreling about whether this name is Hindu or Muslim in order to endorse your prejudices and stirring hate against a minority.
If you would be interested a little bit in Indian politics you would clearly know that the leader of the Hindu Party BJP, Bal Thackeray, resident of Mumbai, is an admirer of Adolf Hitler. So, don't blame all Muslims for any antisemitism, but look what really happen in order to understand it.
And for some ignorant Hindus: Hindus have butchered as much Muslims as Muslims have butchered Hindus. You are no innocent victims.
By the way: I am a German citizen with a Hindu father.
If you would be interested a little bit in Indian politics you would clearly know that the leader of the Hindu Party BJP, Bal Thackeray, resident of Mumbai, is an admirer of Adolf Hitler. So, don't blame all Muslims for any antisemitism, but look what really happen in order to understand it.
And for some ignorant Hindus: Hindus have butchered as much Muslims as Muslims have butchered Hindus. You are no innocent victims.
By the way: I am a German citizen with a Hindu father.
Posted by: Evelyn Chatterji at August 24, 2006 07:12 AM (8zlnn)
68
Kloss , really kicks ass. I mean just because it is such a "SUCCESSFUL"(ahem) religion does it grant them permission to kill people?
Now , I am sure that Kloss is either Khalid or Kadir.And , please learn some Indian History before you post , because you obviously know nothing.India before 1947 was huge. And it included PORKISTAN,BANGLADESH , parts of AFGHANISTAN, MYANMAR.And the Muslims were the majority, just do some addition and you will know Hindus were the minority then. Unless , you are stuck on the ISLAMIC concept of 1. The islamic invadrs destroyed 400 temples , forcibly converted the hindus, raped women etc the list is endless.The only good kings were AKBAR , SHER SHAH SURI, BAHADUR SHAH ZAFAR , SHAH JAHAN the rest were ASSHOLES.
We , Indians do not want anything to do with those Muslims.If they can keep their half cut cocks inside their pants and mind their own business it is better for them. As the day the Indians lose their mind , Muslims will learn a lesson.
So , ISLAM is growing - is that good or bad? well it is scary. As long as, they try to lead a good life , no one will have a problem. But , it is in their blood hate anyone who is a NON-MUSLIM.So , let me try to figure out what you are trying to say here - JUST BECAUSE THOSE GUYS KEEP GETTING LAID AND GIVE BIRTH TO MANY MORE TERRORISTS AND FUNDAMENTALISTS , THE RELIGION THEY FOLLOW MUST BE GOOD AND MUST BE A PEACEFUL RELIGION? You obviously would not have been able to comprehend what I said as you must have been busy in you LOCAL MOSQUE learning how to build the next Timer Bomb...
PLEASE , LEAVE THE JOB OF DEALING WITH THE TERRORISTS TO US. SO THAT YOU CAN BE WITH YOUR FUNDAMENTALISTS BROTHERS , WHO WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO CUT YOUR "DICK" INTO HALF.
Now , I am sure that Kloss is either Khalid or Kadir.And , please learn some Indian History before you post , because you obviously know nothing.India before 1947 was huge. And it included PORKISTAN,BANGLADESH , parts of AFGHANISTAN, MYANMAR.And the Muslims were the majority, just do some addition and you will know Hindus were the minority then. Unless , you are stuck on the ISLAMIC concept of 1. The islamic invadrs destroyed 400 temples , forcibly converted the hindus, raped women etc the list is endless.The only good kings were AKBAR , SHER SHAH SURI, BAHADUR SHAH ZAFAR , SHAH JAHAN the rest were ASSHOLES.
We , Indians do not want anything to do with those Muslims.If they can keep their half cut cocks inside their pants and mind their own business it is better for them. As the day the Indians lose their mind , Muslims will learn a lesson.
So , ISLAM is growing - is that good or bad? well it is scary. As long as, they try to lead a good life , no one will have a problem. But , it is in their blood hate anyone who is a NON-MUSLIM.So , let me try to figure out what you are trying to say here - JUST BECAUSE THOSE GUYS KEEP GETTING LAID AND GIVE BIRTH TO MANY MORE TERRORISTS AND FUNDAMENTALISTS , THE RELIGION THEY FOLLOW MUST BE GOOD AND MUST BE A PEACEFUL RELIGION? You obviously would not have been able to comprehend what I said as you must have been busy in you LOCAL MOSQUE learning how to build the next Timer Bomb...
PLEASE , LEAVE THE JOB OF DEALING WITH THE TERRORISTS TO US. SO THAT YOU CAN BE WITH YOUR FUNDAMENTALISTS BROTHERS , WHO WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO CUT YOUR "DICK" INTO HALF.
Posted by: snakefighter at August 24, 2006 08:00 AM (HUw/r)
69
"If you would be interested a little bit in Indian politics you would clearly know that the leader of the Hindu Party BJP, Bal Thackeray, resident of Mumbai, is an admirer of Adolf Hitler."
@YO GERMAN CITIZEN CHATTERJI!!
Yeah , shows how much you know. He is not the leader of BJP.He is the leader of Shiv Sena.And , please check out the interview where he said that he admires Hitler but he condemns what he did to the Jews. He , has said that it should have been done to the MUSLIMS.
@YO GERMAN CITIZEN CHATTERJI!!
Yeah , shows how much you know. He is not the leader of BJP.He is the leader of Shiv Sena.And , please check out the interview where he said that he admires Hitler but he condemns what he did to the Jews. He , has said that it should have been done to the MUSLIMS.
Posted by: dude at August 24, 2006 08:21 AM (HUw/r)
70
"And for some ignorant Hindus: Hindus have butchered as much Muslims as Muslims have butchered Hindus. You are no innocent victims."
@MR.GERMAN CHATTERJI
And when would that be?There is no denying that hindus have killed Muslims.But , please don't give me crap that Hindus have killed as much as muslims have.
Let me tell you , we ARE not Innocent Victims.We are victims whose hands are tied , and we fight a boxing match with our hands tied. Just to tell you , something Christians , Jews , Parsees , Sikhs are all well to do in India ... so what stops the Muslims from going forward and progressing to a more modern outlook.If it is any community that has shown restrain it is the HINDU community. My Bengali brother , you are far away. And after 108 blasts in Maharastra alone from 1992-2006 , when all the accused have been muslims . You must give us our due , for showing restrain. But , there will come a time will patience will run out ...and we might FORCED to fight them.
@MR.GERMAN CHATTERJI
And when would that be?There is no denying that hindus have killed Muslims.But , please don't give me crap that Hindus have killed as much as muslims have.
Let me tell you , we ARE not Innocent Victims.We are victims whose hands are tied , and we fight a boxing match with our hands tied. Just to tell you , something Christians , Jews , Parsees , Sikhs are all well to do in India ... so what stops the Muslims from going forward and progressing to a more modern outlook.If it is any community that has shown restrain it is the HINDU community. My Bengali brother , you are far away. And after 108 blasts in Maharastra alone from 1992-2006 , when all the accused have been muslims . You must give us our due , for showing restrain. But , there will come a time will patience will run out ...and we might FORCED to fight them.
Posted by: dude at August 24, 2006 08:31 AM (HUw/r)
71
Kloss you friggin idiot. I support Hindus because are not calling for my death, the death of other religions, and the death of America. America should do everything to aid India in their quest for peace and prosperity.
Posted by: greyrooster at August 24, 2006 08:50 AM (eId1k)
Posted by: greyrooster at August 24, 2006 08:59 AM (eId1k)
73
Kloss:
Regarding your aug. 22nd post:
With regards to Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal, RSS, etc. They have been painted as terror groups by some media groups, but the thing that needs to be realized is they have not, EVER, been convicted of STARTING or propagating an attack. EVER. They have NEVER been convicted or even thought to have randomly shot or bombed people or places unprovoked.
When do these groups come out to fight? ONLY when there is instigated by Muslims.
I see this as a big difference than from Muslims who pro-actively attack other groups in India without provocation.
Regarding your aug. 22nd post:
With regards to Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal, RSS, etc. They have been painted as terror groups by some media groups, but the thing that needs to be realized is they have not, EVER, been convicted of STARTING or propagating an attack. EVER. They have NEVER been convicted or even thought to have randomly shot or bombed people or places unprovoked.
When do these groups come out to fight? ONLY when there is instigated by Muslims.
I see this as a big difference than from Muslims who pro-actively attack other groups in India without provocation.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 24, 2006 10:02 AM (A8Hxo)
74
JesuslandJoe:
You are absolutely correct. A lot of people did not know that from Afghanistan to Myanmar was Hindu. Some say the Hindu Kush mountains, north Afghanistan were a place where Muslim Invaders killed Hindus. Apparently, Kush means "kill or Murder" in Arabic. So this translates to "Hindu Kill."
They are barbarians, there is no question about it. I think the reason they are being tolerated is because 18% of India is Muslim. This amounts to almost 200 Million people! Second, the government leaders are corrupt individuals. Corruption is EXTREMELY rampant. Some of them even have ties with the Bombay Mafia, which is mostly run by Muslims. They just care to fill their own pockets and care little for India. You guys cannot believe how much money a governor of even ONE state can make in India: 1 BILLION USD. India actually has a lot of money, but the problem is, it is in the pockets of a VERY, VERY few heartless and corrupt individuals.
You are absolutely correct. A lot of people did not know that from Afghanistan to Myanmar was Hindu. Some say the Hindu Kush mountains, north Afghanistan were a place where Muslim Invaders killed Hindus. Apparently, Kush means "kill or Murder" in Arabic. So this translates to "Hindu Kill."
They are barbarians, there is no question about it. I think the reason they are being tolerated is because 18% of India is Muslim. This amounts to almost 200 Million people! Second, the government leaders are corrupt individuals. Corruption is EXTREMELY rampant. Some of them even have ties with the Bombay Mafia, which is mostly run by Muslims. They just care to fill their own pockets and care little for India. You guys cannot believe how much money a governor of even ONE state can make in India: 1 BILLION USD. India actually has a lot of money, but the problem is, it is in the pockets of a VERY, VERY few heartless and corrupt individuals.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 24, 2006 10:09 AM (A8Hxo)
75
JEWS AND HINDUS HAVE NO SIMILARITY WHATSOEVER.CALLING IT A HISTORIC FRIENDSHIP IS A JOKE. JEWS ARE A SPECIAL RACE CHOSEN BY ONE GOD WHEREAS HINDUS HAVE 33 MILLIONS GODS AND GODDESSES. YOU CAN CALL IT A FRIENDSHIP OF CONVENIENCE AS THERE IS NO FRIEND FOR HINDUS IN THE WORLD. CHRISTIANS WANT TO CONVERT HINDUS, MUSLIMS AND HINDUS HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON AND THERE ARE MANY CASTES IN HINDUISM ITSELF THAT MAKES THEM A SHATTERED COMMUNITY. JEWS HATE YOUR SO CALLED SACRED SYMBOL "SWASTIKA". JEWS HAVE WORKED HARD TO BAN THE SWASTIKA IN ALL OF EUROPE. DRAWING SWASTIKA IS A CRIME IN NEW YORK (LAW PASSED RECENTLY IN 2006). MICROSOFT REMOVED THE SWASTIKS SYMBOL FROM THE MICROSOFT OFFICE RECENTLY-UNDER THE JEWSISH COMMUNITY'S PRESSURE.
THE TRUTH IS JEWS AND MUSLIMS SHARE A LOT IN COMMON.THEIR FAITH AND CUSTOMS ARE VERY SIMILAR. JEWS AND MUSLIMS CUT THE COW IN A KOSHER/HALAL METHOD.THEY BURY THEIR DEAD EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. MUSLIMS ARE ALLOWED BY ISLAMIC LAW TO EAT COWS SLAUGHTERED BY JEWS AS IT CONFIRMS TO THE ISLAMIC WAY. JEWS AND MUSLIMS DO NOT EAT PIG. BOTH REGARD MOSES AS THEIR PROPHET. BOTH REGARD ABRAHAM AS THEIR FATHER. BOTH BELIEVE IN ALAH OR ALOHIM AS THEIR ONLY GOD. THE ONLY ONLY PROBLEM BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND JEWS IS THE PALESTINIAN CONFLICT WHICH IS SIMPLY A POLITICAL ISSUE JUST LIKE KASHMIR ISSUE.
HINDUS!WAKE UP FROM THE BAD DREAM AND SEE THE REALITY.
THE TRUTH IS JEWS AND MUSLIMS SHARE A LOT IN COMMON.THEIR FAITH AND CUSTOMS ARE VERY SIMILAR. JEWS AND MUSLIMS CUT THE COW IN A KOSHER/HALAL METHOD.THEY BURY THEIR DEAD EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. MUSLIMS ARE ALLOWED BY ISLAMIC LAW TO EAT COWS SLAUGHTERED BY JEWS AS IT CONFIRMS TO THE ISLAMIC WAY. JEWS AND MUSLIMS DO NOT EAT PIG. BOTH REGARD MOSES AS THEIR PROPHET. BOTH REGARD ABRAHAM AS THEIR FATHER. BOTH BELIEVE IN ALAH OR ALOHIM AS THEIR ONLY GOD. THE ONLY ONLY PROBLEM BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND JEWS IS THE PALESTINIAN CONFLICT WHICH IS SIMPLY A POLITICAL ISSUE JUST LIKE KASHMIR ISSUE.
HINDUS!WAKE UP FROM THE BAD DREAM AND SEE THE REALITY.
Posted by: RAJ at August 24, 2006 10:17 AM (wauNA)
76
Dear Evelyn,
I hope you won't be offended by this, but your dad IS from West Bengal. WB is one of only two communist states in India. Indian communists have traditionally been close allies of Muslims. I'm not surprised your dad mistakenly blames Hindus and absolves Muslims of blame. But I can't forgive YOU for making his mistake. You have access to the news in a modern Western nation; you should come up with your own conclusions. How many times do Hindus attack Muslims unprovoked? Now, how often do Muslims attack everyone else?
Hindu fundamentalists don't admire Hitler. They just admit he was a man of strong will, but definitely an EVIL man. They only wish that someone with equally strong resolve, but with a GOOD purpose, will rid India of its Islamic terror problem. This does NOT mean sending them to death camps, but it does mean restricting their growth, deportation to Muslim countries, and active reconversion to Hinduism where possible. Hindus have been the most vocal supporters of Israel (barring some Communists, ahem).
I hope you won't be offended by this, but your dad IS from West Bengal. WB is one of only two communist states in India. Indian communists have traditionally been close allies of Muslims. I'm not surprised your dad mistakenly blames Hindus and absolves Muslims of blame. But I can't forgive YOU for making his mistake. You have access to the news in a modern Western nation; you should come up with your own conclusions. How many times do Hindus attack Muslims unprovoked? Now, how often do Muslims attack everyone else?
Hindu fundamentalists don't admire Hitler. They just admit he was a man of strong will, but definitely an EVIL man. They only wish that someone with equally strong resolve, but with a GOOD purpose, will rid India of its Islamic terror problem. This does NOT mean sending them to death camps, but it does mean restricting their growth, deportation to Muslim countries, and active reconversion to Hinduism where possible. Hindus have been the most vocal supporters of Israel (barring some Communists, ahem).
Posted by: Another Indian Hindu at August 24, 2006 10:18 AM (ChjOq)
77
Raj,
You are right in saying that Islam and Judaism share a lot in common.
However, it's not true that Hindus have 33 million Gods. We may have 33 million forms of God but they are all one and the same, like different drops of water in the ocean.
Also, Jews do not proselytize like Muslims and Christians. Jews and Hindus make good friends albeit with some distance. As long as we don't force our religion on each other, it should be fine.
You are right in saying that Islam and Judaism share a lot in common.
However, it's not true that Hindus have 33 million Gods. We may have 33 million forms of God but they are all one and the same, like different drops of water in the ocean.
Also, Jews do not proselytize like Muslims and Christians. Jews and Hindus make good friends albeit with some distance. As long as we don't force our religion on each other, it should be fine.
Posted by: Another Indian Hindu at August 24, 2006 10:27 AM (ChjOq)
78
Indian Hindu,
Indonesia and Malaysia are India's friends? ROFL! You're more misguided than I thought. Muslim Malaysia recently destroyed Hindu temples. Muslim Indonesians bombed Balinese Hindus and refused to let the Indian Navy *help* police the Malacca Strait.
All Arabs support(ed) Pakistan over the Kashmir issue (Saddam was the only exception ROFL and he did that just to give the other Arabs the finger).
Indonesia and Malaysia are India's friends? ROFL! You're more misguided than I thought. Muslim Malaysia recently destroyed Hindu temples. Muslim Indonesians bombed Balinese Hindus and refused to let the Indian Navy *help* police the Malacca Strait.
All Arabs support(ed) Pakistan over the Kashmir issue (Saddam was the only exception ROFL and he did that just to give the other Arabs the finger).
Posted by: Another Indian Hindu at August 24, 2006 10:32 AM (ChjOq)
79
leading Hindu organizations RSS and BJP are the most loyal friends of Hitler and Nazism. In fact RSS is based on Nazi idealogy of a pure nation of aryan supremacy.How is that then Hindus and Jews could be friends. If there is a friendship it is temporary till Muslims and Jews get along. Those days are not far when jews and Muslims will join together against Hindus.
Posted by: steve at August 24, 2006 10:37 AM (wauNA)
80
Improbulus Maximus:
Trying to argue with a narrow minded, stubborn individual who as a very, very skewed of human history will get me nowhere, so this is my last reply to you. Your 3rd grade U.S. history textbooks have not served you well, but that is the information you keep referring to,
"Greece, the birthplace of democracy, Greece is considered "Western,", Western is democracy, Western is best." Thats the sum of your knowledge apparently.
Lets not even get into the fact that these textbooks take into account what is KNOWN, and by Western standards Greece is old, but there are older advanced civilizations -- and no, not just in India, mesopotamia, India, China, etc. What your 3rd grade western textbooks do not give due credit to, is the advancements, both socially as well as technologically, that served as stepping stones for Western civilization to advance upon.
Where would the world be if there was no system of 0-9? or Metallurgy? Copernicus, Da Vinci, Einstein, all "Western inventors and scientists" would be NO WHERE. So when you write that India has not contributed much to the world, you are wrong.
And let me correct you on your asssertion that the "world" uses the U.S. system as a model. It doesn't. The British system is used in more countries.
What atrocities occur in India? Do tell? Killing 2,000 muslims? Riots? Wait until ANY ONE western country has an 18% Muslim population. England has a much smaller amount, yet there have been several riots there. Lets talk about America. What about the several race riots in recent history? WHAT ABOUT SLAVERY? WHAT ABOUT THE NATIVE AMERICANS? Those are not atrocities committed by the West Improbulus Maximus?
I make no mention of the Academy of Athens, why would I? You're the one saying that the West is superior and that India has not contributed anything, and I've proved you wrong. You sound like a sissy 3rd grader. I'm not saying the West has not contributed anything, like I said, I do think that as you have mentioned, in the past 500 years they have. To which I stated that the period of enlightment in India was stunted with Muslim invasions, to which you do not respond. Nor are you give proper credit to the foundation that was set by the great Indian civilizations, upon which the West built itself.
I said you "depicted" things as being Peachy or Happy, not that you said it. Are you slow or something?
#1 The Turks besieged, BREIFLY, they never stayed on in large amounts. #2, the Ottoman empire has not been nearly as zealous of religious conversions as Arabs have, #3, if you look at the countries the Muslims invaded, most of them are poor by European standards: Russia (esp. Chechen area), Italy, Hungary, Greece. Greece barely made the U.N. the only thing that got Greece accepted was the thinking by Europeans that they are the "cornerstone of Western civilization." Otherwise, its a pretty poor country, as is Hungary, southern Italy, and Russia.
When did I say or imply that white people are devils? Get a grip on reality and stop reading your 3rd grade public school textbooks.
Trying to argue with a narrow minded, stubborn individual who as a very, very skewed of human history will get me nowhere, so this is my last reply to you. Your 3rd grade U.S. history textbooks have not served you well, but that is the information you keep referring to,
"Greece, the birthplace of democracy, Greece is considered "Western,", Western is democracy, Western is best." Thats the sum of your knowledge apparently.
Lets not even get into the fact that these textbooks take into account what is KNOWN, and by Western standards Greece is old, but there are older advanced civilizations -- and no, not just in India, mesopotamia, India, China, etc. What your 3rd grade western textbooks do not give due credit to, is the advancements, both socially as well as technologically, that served as stepping stones for Western civilization to advance upon.
Where would the world be if there was no system of 0-9? or Metallurgy? Copernicus, Da Vinci, Einstein, all "Western inventors and scientists" would be NO WHERE. So when you write that India has not contributed much to the world, you are wrong.
And let me correct you on your asssertion that the "world" uses the U.S. system as a model. It doesn't. The British system is used in more countries.
What atrocities occur in India? Do tell? Killing 2,000 muslims? Riots? Wait until ANY ONE western country has an 18% Muslim population. England has a much smaller amount, yet there have been several riots there. Lets talk about America. What about the several race riots in recent history? WHAT ABOUT SLAVERY? WHAT ABOUT THE NATIVE AMERICANS? Those are not atrocities committed by the West Improbulus Maximus?
I make no mention of the Academy of Athens, why would I? You're the one saying that the West is superior and that India has not contributed anything, and I've proved you wrong. You sound like a sissy 3rd grader. I'm not saying the West has not contributed anything, like I said, I do think that as you have mentioned, in the past 500 years they have. To which I stated that the period of enlightment in India was stunted with Muslim invasions, to which you do not respond. Nor are you give proper credit to the foundation that was set by the great Indian civilizations, upon which the West built itself.
I said you "depicted" things as being Peachy or Happy, not that you said it. Are you slow or something?
#1 The Turks besieged, BREIFLY, they never stayed on in large amounts. #2, the Ottoman empire has not been nearly as zealous of religious conversions as Arabs have, #3, if you look at the countries the Muslims invaded, most of them are poor by European standards: Russia (esp. Chechen area), Italy, Hungary, Greece. Greece barely made the U.N. the only thing that got Greece accepted was the thinking by Europeans that they are the "cornerstone of Western civilization." Otherwise, its a pretty poor country, as is Hungary, southern Italy, and Russia.
When did I say or imply that white people are devils? Get a grip on reality and stop reading your 3rd grade public school textbooks.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 24, 2006 10:42 AM (A8Hxo)
81
IndianHindu:
You write that Hinduism lives well in Muslim countries like "non-Taliban" Afghanistan, or "Malaysia."
You are wrong bhai. Muslims ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD in a majority are a problem. Read about the demolition of Hindu temples in Malaysia:
http://www.pluralism.org/news/intl/index.php?xref=Destruction+of+Hindu+Temples+in+Malaysia&sort=DESC
You write that Hinduism lives well in Muslim countries like "non-Taliban" Afghanistan, or "Malaysia."
You are wrong bhai. Muslims ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD in a majority are a problem. Read about the demolition of Hindu temples in Malaysia:
http://www.pluralism.org/news/intl/index.php?xref=Destruction+of+Hindu+Temples+in+Malaysia&sort=DESC
Posted by: DT2004 at August 24, 2006 10:45 AM (A8Hxo)
82
AnotherIndianHindu:
Sorry bhai, I see that you already mentioned the grazing of Hindu Temples in Malaysia. "IndianHindu" does not read enough on tihs stuff.
Sorry bhai, I see that you already mentioned the grazing of Hindu Temples in Malaysia. "IndianHindu" does not read enough on tihs stuff.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 24, 2006 10:47 AM (A8Hxo)
83
The west is the best. Come here and we'll take care of the rest.
Posted by: Howie at August 24, 2006 10:48 AM (YdcZ0)
84
Muslim Alert - Steve! Steve, what's your real name? Samir? Sami?
Posted by: Another Indian Hindu at August 24, 2006 10:48 AM (ChjOq)
85
Mr. Jones and Greg tell each other fairy tales.
Posted by: Howie at August 24, 2006 10:51 AM (YdcZ0)
86
BREAKING NEWS: THE RESTAURANT IS CHANGING ITS NAME.
For those, such as Improbulus Maximums' doubt of India being a truly democratic, wonderful country, for those that said that right wing Hindu groups are followers of Nazi-ism, and that Hindus are not true allies of Jews, read it and weep.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4138593.html
I told this, in an earlier post, that THE RESTAURANT WILL GET SLACK FROM INDIANS THEMSELVES, AND THEN CHANGE IT. I was right. Sorry, didn't mean to rub it in, but its true.
Hindus are peace loving, and India is a true democracy. Thats all I have to say about this.
For those, such as Improbulus Maximums' doubt of India being a truly democratic, wonderful country, for those that said that right wing Hindu groups are followers of Nazi-ism, and that Hindus are not true allies of Jews, read it and weep.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4138593.html
I told this, in an earlier post, that THE RESTAURANT WILL GET SLACK FROM INDIANS THEMSELVES, AND THEN CHANGE IT. I was right. Sorry, didn't mean to rub it in, but its true.
Hindus are peace loving, and India is a true democracy. Thats all I have to say about this.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 24, 2006 10:52 AM (A8Hxo)
87
Besides, what's the point of having a German-themed restaurant without German food! This manager Fatima must be a real moron! Back to Burger King for her ass!
Posted by: hondo at August 24, 2006 11:32 AM (XrexX)
88
Greyrooster, Hondo ---
Call me what you want and riddle your comments with abuses towards me -- but I pointed you towards facts that can easily be verified.
And you have not. No facts -- just conjecture.
We'll leave it at that because your basis for argument is the proverbial shout-and-insult me down.
Others who are feel a need to accuse of being a Muslim because I don't share in the venom that you do...
what's your point in trying to accuse me of being a Muslim?
Stick to the points I am making.
I am not a Muslim but the reason why I make the arguments against you is because you have prejudices that are beyond control! As I've said, I am at war with the Islamic terrorists -- but not with the Islamic world.
Why? Because the overwhelming majority of the 1.2 Billion Muslims have not attacked America, India, Israel, Hindus, Jews, Christians, etc.
If they did, we should have a global war against Islam at levels you cannot imagine. But they have not and therefore, your arguments are foolish and an expression of your internal hatred.
Silly people, *IF* Muslims on a whole wanted to do what you think they aspire to do, ALL of humanity would be either converted, killed, or in a perpetual war that would have destroyed us all by now!
Worldwide, airplanes, churches, synagogues, temples, financial buildings, army bases, would have bombs and fiery blasts devouring them.
Islam has been around for more than 1400 years and its track record of killing masses of people is nothing in comparison to what the Nazis, Fascists and Communist totalitarian dictators did! Again don't take my word for it, look up the facts; they are easy to find an unbiased.
That's why a response to the Islamic terrorist threat must be smart and not what you guys are suggesting, inflaming one against the other without taking into account who is an innocent person and who isn't.
Like I said, if Muslims wanted to kill every Jew, Christian, Hindu and atheist, we would all be done by now.
Greyrooster, Hondo ---
Call me what you want and riddle your comments with abuses towards me -- but I pointed you towards facts that can easily be verified.
And you have not. No facts -- just conjecture.
We'll leave it at that because your basis for argument is the proverbial shout-and-insult me down.
Others who are feel a need to accuse of being a Muslim because I don't share in the venom that you do...
what's your point in trying to accuse me of being a Muslim?
Stick to the points I am making.
I am not a Muslim but the reason why I make the arguments against you is because you have prejudices that are beyond control! As I've said, I am at war with the Islamic terrorists -- but not with the Islamic world.
Why? Because the overwhelming majority of the 1.2 Billion Muslims have not attacked America, India, Israel, Hindus, Jews, Christians, etc.
If they did, we should have a global war against Islam at levels you cannot imagine. But they have not and therefore, your arguments are foolish and an expression of your internal hatred.
Silly people, *IF* Muslims on a whole wanted to do what you think they aspire to do, ALL of humanity would be either converted, killed, or in a perpetual war that would have destroyed us all by now!
Worldwide, airplanes, churches, synagogues, temples, financial buildings, army bases, would have bombs and fiery blasts devouring them.
Islam has been around for more than 1400 years and its track record of killing masses of people is nothing in comparison to what the Nazis, Fascists and Communist totalitarian dictators did! Again don't take my word for it, look up the facts; they are easy to find an unbiased.
That's why a response to the Islamic terrorist threat must be smart and not what you guys are suggesting, inflaming one against the other without taking into account who is an innocent person and who isn't.
Like I said, if Muslims wanted to kill every Jew, Christian, Hindu and atheist, we would all be done by now.
Posted by: Kloss at August 24, 2006 11:34 AM (LBfaS)
89
People like KLOSS , should wake up and see what is happening around them. Local BRITISH muslims being invovled in terrorist activites. Indian Muslims arrested for the 7/11 blasts.This is just the trend.With more and more Muslims swearing their allegiance to their religion and being least bothered about the country they stay in , is a dangerous sign. KLOSS , you are just looking at the current scenario maybe because you have not been affected by TERRORISM. I stay in Mumbai , and I swear to GOD,I have seen a lot of these people who are not bothered about INDIA.They are shameless beyond doubt. How would you feel when you hear People who live in your country support PAKISTAN your country's worst enemy?How would you feel when they are ashamed/refuse to sing the Indian National song" Vande mataram" (hymn to the freedom fighters ) because Islam does not allow people to bow their heads to anyone apart from ALLAH? In my country , they are given 150 crores as HAJ SUBSIDY, and they abuse the very country that gives them these privileges.... And WHY SHOULD WE TOLERATE THIS NONSENSE?
We have no problem with people who work hard for their family. Earn their daily wages , and want to have happy life. People in India have had enough of this Islamic terrorism. There are other terrorists in this world , but it is not base on religious Ideology. This one is even more dangerous as the more people unite and form the ISLAMIC BLOC , the more vulnerable my country is. IN THE END , MY COUNTRY MATTERS MORE THAN ANYTHING.AND , BY SITTING 10,000 MILES AWAY AND POSTING WITHOUT KNOWING THE GROUND REALITIES YOU ARE JUST PROVING WHAT A FOOL YOU ARE.
Remmember one thing , these people want to bleed you with a 1000 wounds. YOU CANNOT TALK TO THEM . AS APART FROM PALESTINE WHAT IS THE POSSIBLE REASON FOR THESE TERRORISTS TO ATTACK "U.S".CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT PROVOKED THEM TO ATTACK U.S? WHAT PROVOKED THEM TO ATTACK THE ZILLION CITIES IN MAINLAND INDIA(I can understan Kashmir).?
So , if negotiations is ruled out. The only thing left is to wait for them to attack you - or you attack them.... I prefer attacking them first , because they have bled me a 1000 times , I WONT DIE WITHOUT A FIGHT. AT LEAST , TO SAVE MY HONOUR.IF I HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN MY CHILDREN AND THEIR , I WILL CHOOSE MY CHILDREN. IF I HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN BY COUNTRY AND THEIR COUNTRY , I WOULD CHOOSE MINE.
We have no problem with people who work hard for their family. Earn their daily wages , and want to have happy life. People in India have had enough of this Islamic terrorism. There are other terrorists in this world , but it is not base on religious Ideology. This one is even more dangerous as the more people unite and form the ISLAMIC BLOC , the more vulnerable my country is. IN THE END , MY COUNTRY MATTERS MORE THAN ANYTHING.AND , BY SITTING 10,000 MILES AWAY AND POSTING WITHOUT KNOWING THE GROUND REALITIES YOU ARE JUST PROVING WHAT A FOOL YOU ARE.
Remmember one thing , these people want to bleed you with a 1000 wounds. YOU CANNOT TALK TO THEM . AS APART FROM PALESTINE WHAT IS THE POSSIBLE REASON FOR THESE TERRORISTS TO ATTACK "U.S".CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT PROVOKED THEM TO ATTACK U.S? WHAT PROVOKED THEM TO ATTACK THE ZILLION CITIES IN MAINLAND INDIA(I can understan Kashmir).?
So , if negotiations is ruled out. The only thing left is to wait for them to attack you - or you attack them.... I prefer attacking them first , because they have bled me a 1000 times , I WONT DIE WITHOUT A FIGHT. AT LEAST , TO SAVE MY HONOUR.IF I HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN MY CHILDREN AND THEIR , I WILL CHOOSE MY CHILDREN. IF I HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN BY COUNTRY AND THEIR COUNTRY , I WOULD CHOOSE MINE.
Posted by: killer at August 24, 2006 12:02 PM (HUw/r)
90
Just for a change my friend KLOSS THE SIMPLETON.
Please check out this link , and see what I-SLAM teaches ...
www.faithfreedom.org
very peaceful religion I must say.
Please check out this link , and see what I-SLAM teaches ...
www.faithfreedom.org
very peaceful religion I must say.
Posted by: killer at August 24, 2006 12:06 PM (HUw/r)
91
http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm
KLOSS , CHECK THIS OUT. DEFEAT HIM AND WIN $ 50, 000 . It is a great chance for you secularists. And , he has proof that this is a terrorist religion.
KLOSS , CHECK THIS OUT. DEFEAT HIM AND WIN $ 50, 000 . It is a great chance for you secularists. And , he has proof that this is a terrorist religion.
Posted by: killer at August 24, 2006 12:12 PM (HUw/r)
92
Raw senseless emotion, that's all that you got.
*Where* are the masses of Muslims attacking flights, building and "infidels" in the USA, in the UK, in India?
What's the total number they got, 15, 25, 500, 1000, say even 1M?!
And what percentage of 1.2 Billion is that?
Your emotional hatred of the whole Islamic peoples is not justified by the actual number of people who are committing these acts.
If 10 Muslims commit just 1 act of terror in 100 different places around the globe, that looks like a global massive war from the Muslims doesn't it? You can spin things any way you want them my friend.
And it's this point that belies your whole tactic. Wise up and if logical & aware people look at the facts, you will be shown for who you really are -- hateful opportunists.
If you direct your attacks against the actual Muslim terrorists that do this, you are totally correct. But not if you use that to attack Islam and Muslims at large. That shows you have a much larger agenda. And I'll respect that too, but as long as you can say it straight and direct, and not hide behind the baseless excuses!
I invite the readers here to find how much *fact* is actually in the posts from those who have written the most vile things to say about *all* Muslims and Islam.
If you don't have facts, you are wasting everyone's time.
Raw senseless emotion, that's all that you got.
*Where* are the masses of Muslims attacking flights, building and "infidels" in the USA, in the UK, in India?
What's the total number they got, 15, 25, 500, 1000, say even 1M?!
And what percentage of 1.2 Billion is that?
Your emotional hatred of the whole Islamic peoples is not justified by the actual number of people who are committing these acts.
If 10 Muslims commit just 1 act of terror in 100 different places around the globe, that looks like a global massive war from the Muslims doesn't it? You can spin things any way you want them my friend.
And it's this point that belies your whole tactic. Wise up and if logical & aware people look at the facts, you will be shown for who you really are -- hateful opportunists.
If you direct your attacks against the actual Muslim terrorists that do this, you are totally correct. But not if you use that to attack Islam and Muslims at large. That shows you have a much larger agenda. And I'll respect that too, but as long as you can say it straight and direct, and not hide behind the baseless excuses!
I invite the readers here to find how much *fact* is actually in the posts from those who have written the most vile things to say about *all* Muslims and Islam.
If you don't have facts, you are wasting everyone's time.
Posted by: Kloss at August 24, 2006 03:31 PM (LBfaS)
93
Kloss,
You recieved a link. Go to it if you have the balls to do so. The answers are there. There are peaceful Muslims but that's despite their being Muslim, not because they're Muslim. See the difference?
You recieved a link. Go to it if you have the balls to do so. The answers are there. There are peaceful Muslims but that's despite their being Muslim, not because they're Muslim. See the difference?
Posted by: Another Indian Hindu at August 24, 2006 03:57 PM (ChjOq)
94
I am satisfied that my friends in India are aware of the danger, and either are taking steps by watching closely, or they are prepared to react if need be. That is all I can ask any man to do, as that is what I do. But I say this, I, like many of my friends in India, am prepared to live peacefully with anyone who is willing to live with me in peace, but I will fight if need be.
Posted by: jesusland joe at August 24, 2006 05:46 PM (rUyw4)
95
kloss
Thank you for grouping me with my good ol' friend greyrooster. Better company can not be found (unless its a good lookin' female of course - sorry GR).
Looking back in reflection - I notice that neither I nor greyrooster bothered to get particularly involved with this topic. A couple of line comments here and there - not much actually.
GR's few comments were essentially benign and short - He likes and respects Hindus and their culture and wishes them luck - that's about it.
Mine were almost exclusively a few short satirical jokes about German restuarants without German food, how is the jagersnitzel, do they have Pilsen on tap - stuff like that. Plus one minor comment pointing out that islam's "growth" is due solely to exceptionally high birthrates (especially arabs).
So why the odd interest in us?
Oh! I got! What is it that islam wants - to be respected and/or feared. Now others will give you an argument - a debate - paragraphs of data and thought ....
GR will simply tell you to fuck off as I - and we will both laugh at you.
Imagine - muslims rising up and conquering all ... others would be angry at the thought - myself and GR would however just fall out of our chairs laughing.
And that folks is what muslims truly can't stand!!!
Thank you for grouping me with my good ol' friend greyrooster. Better company can not be found (unless its a good lookin' female of course - sorry GR).
Looking back in reflection - I notice that neither I nor greyrooster bothered to get particularly involved with this topic. A couple of line comments here and there - not much actually.
GR's few comments were essentially benign and short - He likes and respects Hindus and their culture and wishes them luck - that's about it.
Mine were almost exclusively a few short satirical jokes about German restuarants without German food, how is the jagersnitzel, do they have Pilsen on tap - stuff like that. Plus one minor comment pointing out that islam's "growth" is due solely to exceptionally high birthrates (especially arabs).
So why the odd interest in us?
Oh! I got! What is it that islam wants - to be respected and/or feared. Now others will give you an argument - a debate - paragraphs of data and thought ....
GR will simply tell you to fuck off as I - and we will both laugh at you.
Imagine - muslims rising up and conquering all ... others would be angry at the thought - myself and GR would however just fall out of our chairs laughing.
And that folks is what muslims truly can't stand!!!
Posted by: hondo at August 24, 2006 07:57 PM (XrexX)
96
MR.KLOSS KADIR KHAN.
Please check out those links. I think it will give you a good insight on what the religion exactly is. i have read Yusuf ali's translation , and I know what it believes in. i have read parts of the Hadith and I know what it says.
And just because we do not " believe" in what you say or feel... please dont label us " INFIDELS". I know with all the laws of the shariat you are compelled to hate us.
And , stop practicing self-denial. There is enough proof and argument on this topic.But , then I cannot expect much from you because Muslims are known to be in a state of self -denial.That is how they mould facts and kill people by blowing up the plane , and then turn around INNOCENTLY and project the religion as a peace loving one.Go take a hike.
Your whole logic is based on two facts - :
a) You cannot accept that there is a problem with YOUR religion. Because if you do , you will have to take responsibility for the TERRORISTS actions.And actually get down to cleaning up the community.
b)If you are not one of those Mullahs sitting in afghanistan learning how to use a PC for a higher purpose....you are either Ignorant , and have no idea of what is happening around the world.For a start , please watch CNN , BBC. Would be helpful...it is only because of fools like you , who do not want to face the truth that fundamenalist forces are on the rise.YOU do not WANT TO BLAME THEM , JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT THAT IT IS A DANGEROUS PROBLEM.
Like I said , I have felt the power and danger of terrorism in Mumbai. And I have been on your side of the see-saw, it is a nice place to be. But , please rememmber without knowing where you stay , I have seen more about this community thna you would ever have. It is nto based ona bias, it is based on how most of the people have behaved.
Please check out those links. I think it will give you a good insight on what the religion exactly is. i have read Yusuf ali's translation , and I know what it believes in. i have read parts of the Hadith and I know what it says.
And just because we do not " believe" in what you say or feel... please dont label us " INFIDELS". I know with all the laws of the shariat you are compelled to hate us.
And , stop practicing self-denial. There is enough proof and argument on this topic.But , then I cannot expect much from you because Muslims are known to be in a state of self -denial.That is how they mould facts and kill people by blowing up the plane , and then turn around INNOCENTLY and project the religion as a peace loving one.Go take a hike.
Your whole logic is based on two facts - :
a) You cannot accept that there is a problem with YOUR religion. Because if you do , you will have to take responsibility for the TERRORISTS actions.And actually get down to cleaning up the community.
b)If you are not one of those Mullahs sitting in afghanistan learning how to use a PC for a higher purpose....you are either Ignorant , and have no idea of what is happening around the world.For a start , please watch CNN , BBC. Would be helpful...it is only because of fools like you , who do not want to face the truth that fundamenalist forces are on the rise.YOU do not WANT TO BLAME THEM , JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT THAT IT IS A DANGEROUS PROBLEM.
Like I said , I have felt the power and danger of terrorism in Mumbai. And I have been on your side of the see-saw, it is a nice place to be. But , please rememmber without knowing where you stay , I have seen more about this community thna you would ever have. It is nto based ona bias, it is based on how most of the people have behaved.
Posted by: snake at August 24, 2006 11:06 PM (z25F+)
97
To correct my response earlier, i meant Greece joining EU not UN.
And for the record, I don't think Kloss is wrong. I do not think all Muslims are evil.
Radical Islam is one of the world's most serious threats, no doubt about it, but lets be objective here folks. They aren't the ONLY source of terrorism. The IRA has been brandished as terrorists. The Tamil Tigers have been, militiamen have, as well as random weirdo's like Timothy McVeigh.
Also, it is unfair to label ALL Muslims as terrorists (or even as sympathizers). I believe 70% of Muslims are radical in some form, either they sympathize (and donate funds towards) with terrorists, participate/support religious conversions, or are terrorists themselves. But I believe there to be about 3 out of 10 that are not radical. Of course this is in stark contrast to other religions, where maybe 70% of Hindus on the flip side are NOT radical, 70% of Christians are NOT radical. But it would be unfair to group people who are not terrorists or symphatizers with the rest of them. Did you know there are Muslim Americans fighting in Iraq? Some have been dismembered? Does that prove anything to some of you?
My approach to Muslims is with cautious skepticism. I think that their history warrants this. We have to keep an eye on them, where they locate their mosques, their reproduction rates, their practices of conversions, what they preach in the mosques, where they transfer money, do they keep arms, what sort of training/education do they go for. Sure, keep a larger watch on them than the rest of us, but lets not be judge, jury and executioner and call them guilty UNTIL proven innocent.
And for the record, I don't think Kloss is wrong. I do not think all Muslims are evil.
Radical Islam is one of the world's most serious threats, no doubt about it, but lets be objective here folks. They aren't the ONLY source of terrorism. The IRA has been brandished as terrorists. The Tamil Tigers have been, militiamen have, as well as random weirdo's like Timothy McVeigh.
Also, it is unfair to label ALL Muslims as terrorists (or even as sympathizers). I believe 70% of Muslims are radical in some form, either they sympathize (and donate funds towards) with terrorists, participate/support religious conversions, or are terrorists themselves. But I believe there to be about 3 out of 10 that are not radical. Of course this is in stark contrast to other religions, where maybe 70% of Hindus on the flip side are NOT radical, 70% of Christians are NOT radical. But it would be unfair to group people who are not terrorists or symphatizers with the rest of them. Did you know there are Muslim Americans fighting in Iraq? Some have been dismembered? Does that prove anything to some of you?
My approach to Muslims is with cautious skepticism. I think that their history warrants this. We have to keep an eye on them, where they locate their mosques, their reproduction rates, their practices of conversions, what they preach in the mosques, where they transfer money, do they keep arms, what sort of training/education do they go for. Sure, keep a larger watch on them than the rest of us, but lets not be judge, jury and executioner and call them guilty UNTIL proven innocent.
Posted by: DT2004 at August 25, 2006 08:45 AM (A8Hxo)
98
All my comments are with respect to those 70%.I do respect a lot of muslims , like my president(I SALUTE HIM), members of the Indian cricket team etc.
But , my only problem is that IT(islamic terrorism) is on the rise.I can digest someone fighting for a reason, even though it is wrong , you can understand that they have done it because of (A), (B), (C) etc.The islamic terrorists do it without any reason.And , once they have killed people they give some stupid reason why they did it, which does not make any sense. And the community instead of condeming the incident are quick to "Save their ass" by calling it the religion of peace. And then make weird ass claims like there were 5 muslim who died in the attack(among the 200).It should be the prerogative of SMART , EDUCATED muslims with sound reasoning to help mould the community into a more modern one.Instead , of blaming the 5% hindus , christians, sikhs, government etc for the state of muslims they should look at why 70% muslims are sympathizers , terrorists or fundamentalists...
All I ask is to love your COUNTRY , and help in nation building.If they do that who will have a problem? INDIA has always listened to every who has an opinion be it Hindu /muslim/Jew/christian /sikh etc.And , if discrimination is the reason then it exists everywhere for everyone.There is no soul in this world who does not face discrimination or has not faced discrimination at some point in time.
If a Muslim can be like ABDUL KALAM(Indian president) , then there is still hope. I still "HOPE" that Muslims in INDIA pull out the poster of terrorists and start respecting intelligent people like KALAM and aspire to be like him.
See , my problem is why do the muslims need an ULEMA(cleric) , MULLAH , IMAM as their head? why can't they have people like Indian President solve the problems related with the community.It is high time some Intelligent person takes charge of this community , or else it will meet its fate.Prejudices will only grow , and then there will come a time when nothing can be done to save them .
So , I do not view them as all "BAD".But I view the teachings of the religion as dangerous. That is the difference. BIG DIFFERNCE BETWEEN A "DEVOUT MUSLIM" AND "AN INDIAN FIRST AND MUSLIM LATER".BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN " RELIGIOUS BROTHERHOOD" AND " NATIONAL UNITY.do you get my drift?
So , I respect anyone , who works hard , wants to live a good life without hurting anyone , and follow the rules of humanity. If you cannot do that then you will pay a price. So to every GOOD MUSLIM please stand and represent your community , I am sick and tired of seeing someone retarded indiviual who only talks about "HATING SOME COUNTRY", "KILLING SOMEONE " and "TEACHINGS OF KORAN".There is more to the " MUSLIM - HUMAN BEING" than his " OUTWARD AFFECTION FOR HIS RELIGION".
But , my only problem is that IT(islamic terrorism) is on the rise.I can digest someone fighting for a reason, even though it is wrong , you can understand that they have done it because of (A), (B), (C) etc.The islamic terrorists do it without any reason.And , once they have killed people they give some stupid reason why they did it, which does not make any sense. And the community instead of condeming the incident are quick to "Save their ass" by calling it the religion of peace. And then make weird ass claims like there were 5 muslim who died in the attack(among the 200).It should be the prerogative of SMART , EDUCATED muslims with sound reasoning to help mould the community into a more modern one.Instead , of blaming the 5% hindus , christians, sikhs, government etc for the state of muslims they should look at why 70% muslims are sympathizers , terrorists or fundamentalists...
All I ask is to love your COUNTRY , and help in nation building.If they do that who will have a problem? INDIA has always listened to every who has an opinion be it Hindu /muslim/Jew/christian /sikh etc.And , if discrimination is the reason then it exists everywhere for everyone.There is no soul in this world who does not face discrimination or has not faced discrimination at some point in time.
If a Muslim can be like ABDUL KALAM(Indian president) , then there is still hope. I still "HOPE" that Muslims in INDIA pull out the poster of terrorists and start respecting intelligent people like KALAM and aspire to be like him.
See , my problem is why do the muslims need an ULEMA(cleric) , MULLAH , IMAM as their head? why can't they have people like Indian President solve the problems related with the community.It is high time some Intelligent person takes charge of this community , or else it will meet its fate.Prejudices will only grow , and then there will come a time when nothing can be done to save them .
So , I do not view them as all "BAD".But I view the teachings of the religion as dangerous. That is the difference. BIG DIFFERNCE BETWEEN A "DEVOUT MUSLIM" AND "AN INDIAN FIRST AND MUSLIM LATER".BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN " RELIGIOUS BROTHERHOOD" AND " NATIONAL UNITY.do you get my drift?
So , I respect anyone , who works hard , wants to live a good life without hurting anyone , and follow the rules of humanity. If you cannot do that then you will pay a price. So to every GOOD MUSLIM please stand and represent your community , I am sick and tired of seeing someone retarded indiviual who only talks about "HATING SOME COUNTRY", "KILLING SOMEONE " and "TEACHINGS OF KORAN".There is more to the " MUSLIM - HUMAN BEING" than his " OUTWARD AFFECTION FOR HIS RELIGION".
Posted by: snake at August 25, 2006 09:50 AM (lCrSt)
99
Hahaa Snake!
I have attacked the Islamic terrorists. I said I am at war with the Islamic terrorists. Read all my earlier posts before you say that I find no fault with Islam and Muslims.
Why is it so hard for you to believe that there are non-Muslims who can defend innocent Muslims? Decent people all over the world do this.
Again, I ask you Snake (and the others) if Islam the actual religion is so bent on the destruction and killing of others and if the silly "only 3 out of 10 are good" argument is correct --- prove it!
In today's day and age, if 70% of Muslims are potential terrorists, where are the results & consequences of that?
Muslims are everywhere, every corner of the globe, living AMONGST the people. Show us the proof, that these inherently evil teachings found in Islam will cause even 1% (just 1%) of Muslims to lash out and kill and hurt people in society.
Where is the proof?
Hahaa Snake!
I have attacked the Islamic terrorists. I said I am at war with the Islamic terrorists. Read all my earlier posts before you say that I find no fault with Islam and Muslims.
Why is it so hard for you to believe that there are non-Muslims who can defend innocent Muslims? Decent people all over the world do this.
Again, I ask you Snake (and the others) if Islam the actual religion is so bent on the destruction and killing of others and if the silly "only 3 out of 10 are good" argument is correct --- prove it!
In today's day and age, if 70% of Muslims are potential terrorists, where are the results & consequences of that?
Muslims are everywhere, every corner of the globe, living AMONGST the people. Show us the proof, that these inherently evil teachings found in Islam will cause even 1% (just 1%) of Muslims to lash out and kill and hurt people in society.
Where is the proof?
Posted by: Kloss at August 25, 2006 11:15 AM (LBfaS)
100
You cannot help a blind man "SEE".The problem with opinions is it can get shitty , but you cannot SHIT without an asshole.
Posted by: snake at August 25, 2006 12:51 PM (ZiEd9)
Posted by: A at August 25, 2006 01:09 PM (ZiEd9)
102
Just as I thought, no Proof. Plenty of hot air. But no proof.
Good luck guys with your thoughtful analysis, I hope it serves you well. It's been interesting.
Signing off,
-Kloss
Just as I thought, no Proof. Plenty of hot air. But no proof.
Good luck guys with your thoughtful analysis, I hope it serves you well. It's been interesting.
Signing off,
-Kloss
Posted by: Kloss at August 25, 2006 02:03 PM (LBfaS)
103
Trying to argue with a narrow minded, stubborn individual who as a very, very skewed of human history will get me nowhere, so this is my last reply to you.
Meaning you can't refute my arguments, so you're going to make some snide remarks and ad hominem attacks, then flee the field, declaring victory.
Your 3rd grade U.S. history textbooks have not served you well, but that is the information you keep referring to,
Boy I called that one.
"Greece, the birthplace of democracy, Greece is considered "Western,", Western is democracy, Western is best." Thats the sum of your knowledge apparently.
You really gutted that strawman! Have at another...
Lets not even get into the fact that these textbooks take into account what is KNOWN, and by Western standards Greece is old, but there are older advanced civilizations -- and no, not just in India, mesopotamia, India, China, etc.
I never said there weren't, but you're attacking strawmen, so I'll leave you to your work.
What your 3rd grade western textbooks do not give due credit to, is the advancements, both socially as well as technologically, that served as stepping stones for Western civilization to advance upon.
Please enlighten us!
Where would the world be if there was no system of 0-9?
I'll give you "zero", but Rome did just fine without it, so I think overall, the concept of "nothing" hardly measures up to geometry or calculus.
or Metallurgy?
Copper was first smelted in Jordan, where it was found in depostits close to the surface. Exploitation of resources is a universal human trait, not culturally specific, though some cultures are better at it than others.
Copernicus, Da Vinci, Einstein, all "Western inventors and scientists" would be NO WHERE. So when you write that India has not contributed much to the world, you are wrong.
When did I say that? Oh, I'm sorry, you're still attacking strawmen. But please, tell me of the great non-European mathematicians, scientists, philosophers, etc., who have contributed to the making of our modern world...
And let me correct you on your asssertion that the "world" uses the U.S. system as a model. It doesn't. The British system is used in more countries.
Another strawman? You're on a roll today! I never said that, but you've never yet let intellectual honesty get in the way of a good argument, have you?
What atrocities occur in India? Do tell? Killing 2,000 muslims? Riots?
Don't pretend that India doesn't have regular riots in which dozens and sometimes hundred of people are injured and killed. It only takes a moment to find scores of stories of such. You're not only a liar; you're a bad one.
Wait until ANY ONE western country has an 18% Muslim population.
I'd rather not wait, but exterminate them now.
England has a much smaller amount, yet there have been several riots there.
Because that's what muslims do.
Lets talk about America. What about the several race riots in recent history?
What about them? Blacks who feel they have the right to steal and kill occasionally go on the rampage.
WHAT ABOUT SLAVERY?
What about it? When it was practiced, it was universal, but it was outlawed in all Western nations long ago, yet in Eastern countries, it's still fairly common, especially in Africa. Not only are you a hypocrite, you're also an idiot for presenting an argument so indefensible.
WHAT ABOUT THE NATIVE AMERICANS?
What about them? We did to them what the muslims did to your people, only we did a better job. Now they get free college tuition and a check from the government every month. What do you get from the muslims? Oh yeah, that's right - bombs on trains and the threat of nuclear annihilation. Moron.
Those are not atrocities committed by the West Improbulus Maximus?
No worse than anyone else's actions of the day, but then, that's got nothing to do with your strawman does it?
I make no mention of the Academy of Athens, why would I?
Because you were talking about the world's oldest learning instutions, dumbass.
You're the one saying that the West is superior and that India has not contributed anything, and I've proved you wrong.
No I didn't, and no you haven't; you've only attacked strawmen of your own making.
You sound like a sissy 3rd grader.
Oooh that really stings coming from an intellectual giant such as yourself. I bet you're the baddest dude in the call center!
I'm not saying the West has not contributed anything...
Actually, that was pretty much the sum of your argument.
...like I said, I do think that as you have mentioned, in the past 500 years they have.
How nice of you to acknowledge that just about everything that surrounds you is a product of Western civilization, if grudgingly so.
To which I stated that the period of enlightment in India was stunted with Muslim invasions, to which you do not respond.
But you went on about what the muslims contributed to India. Which was it? Did they stunt India or enrich it?
Nor are you give proper credit to the foundation that was set by the great Indian civilizations, upon which the West built itself.
So you're saying that everything the West accomplished, it did so because of India? Indian civilization brought about the rise of Greece and Rome? The Rennaisance? The Enlightenment? The Industrial Revolution? The Space Age? The internet?
I said you "depicted" things as being Peachy or Happy, not that you said it.
So you used a strawman. Boy, that's shocking.
Are you slow or something?
Apparently not slow enough for you to catch.
#1 The Turks besieged, BREIFLY, they never stayed on in large amounts. #2, the Ottoman empire has not been nearly as zealous of religious conversions as Arabs have, #3, if you look at the countries the Muslims invaded, most of them are poor by European standards: Russia (esp. Chechen area), Italy, Hungary, Greece. Greece barely made the U.N. the only thing that got Greece accepted was the thinking by Europeans that they are the "cornerstone of Western civilization." Otherwise, its a pretty poor country, as is Hungary, southern Italy, and Russia.
Yeah, and the poorer countries were the farthest from the epicenter of Western development, i.e. Western Europe.
When did I say or imply that white people are devils?
I didn't say you said it; are you slow or something?
Get a grip on reality and stop reading your 3rd grade public school textbooks.
Ooooh another zinger! Boy, it's too bad you couldn't have lived in Aristotle's or Cicero's time, because your superior Indian intellect would have stopped the development of the Western Canon in its tracks!
Meaning you can't refute my arguments, so you're going to make some snide remarks and ad hominem attacks, then flee the field, declaring victory.
Your 3rd grade U.S. history textbooks have not served you well, but that is the information you keep referring to,
Boy I called that one.
"Greece, the birthplace of democracy, Greece is considered "Western,", Western is democracy, Western is best." Thats the sum of your knowledge apparently.
You really gutted that strawman! Have at another...
Lets not even get into the fact that these textbooks take into account what is KNOWN, and by Western standards Greece is old, but there are older advanced civilizations -- and no, not just in India, mesopotamia, India, China, etc.
I never said there weren't, but you're attacking strawmen, so I'll leave you to your work.
What your 3rd grade western textbooks do not give due credit to, is the advancements, both socially as well as technologically, that served as stepping stones for Western civilization to advance upon.
Please enlighten us!
Where would the world be if there was no system of 0-9?
I'll give you "zero", but Rome did just fine without it, so I think overall, the concept of "nothing" hardly measures up to geometry or calculus.
or Metallurgy?
Copper was first smelted in Jordan, where it was found in depostits close to the surface. Exploitation of resources is a universal human trait, not culturally specific, though some cultures are better at it than others.
Copernicus, Da Vinci, Einstein, all "Western inventors and scientists" would be NO WHERE. So when you write that India has not contributed much to the world, you are wrong.
When did I say that? Oh, I'm sorry, you're still attacking strawmen. But please, tell me of the great non-European mathematicians, scientists, philosophers, etc., who have contributed to the making of our modern world...
And let me correct you on your asssertion that the "world" uses the U.S. system as a model. It doesn't. The British system is used in more countries.
Another strawman? You're on a roll today! I never said that, but you've never yet let intellectual honesty get in the way of a good argument, have you?
What atrocities occur in India? Do tell? Killing 2,000 muslims? Riots?
Don't pretend that India doesn't have regular riots in which dozens and sometimes hundred of people are injured and killed. It only takes a moment to find scores of stories of such. You're not only a liar; you're a bad one.
Wait until ANY ONE western country has an 18% Muslim population.
I'd rather not wait, but exterminate them now.
England has a much smaller amount, yet there have been several riots there.
Because that's what muslims do.
Lets talk about America. What about the several race riots in recent history?
What about them? Blacks who feel they have the right to steal and kill occasionally go on the rampage.
WHAT ABOUT SLAVERY?
What about it? When it was practiced, it was universal, but it was outlawed in all Western nations long ago, yet in Eastern countries, it's still fairly common, especially in Africa. Not only are you a hypocrite, you're also an idiot for presenting an argument so indefensible.
WHAT ABOUT THE NATIVE AMERICANS?
What about them? We did to them what the muslims did to your people, only we did a better job. Now they get free college tuition and a check from the government every month. What do you get from the muslims? Oh yeah, that's right - bombs on trains and the threat of nuclear annihilation. Moron.
Those are not atrocities committed by the West Improbulus Maximus?
No worse than anyone else's actions of the day, but then, that's got nothing to do with your strawman does it?
I make no mention of the Academy of Athens, why would I?
Because you were talking about the world's oldest learning instutions, dumbass.
You're the one saying that the West is superior and that India has not contributed anything, and I've proved you wrong.
No I didn't, and no you haven't; you've only attacked strawmen of your own making.
You sound like a sissy 3rd grader.
Oooh that really stings coming from an intellectual giant such as yourself. I bet you're the baddest dude in the call center!
I'm not saying the West has not contributed anything...
Actually, that was pretty much the sum of your argument.
...like I said, I do think that as you have mentioned, in the past 500 years they have.
How nice of you to acknowledge that just about everything that surrounds you is a product of Western civilization, if grudgingly so.
To which I stated that the period of enlightment in India was stunted with Muslim invasions, to which you do not respond.
But you went on about what the muslims contributed to India. Which was it? Did they stunt India or enrich it?
Nor are you give proper credit to the foundation that was set by the great Indian civilizations, upon which the West built itself.
So you're saying that everything the West accomplished, it did so because of India? Indian civilization brought about the rise of Greece and Rome? The Rennaisance? The Enlightenment? The Industrial Revolution? The Space Age? The internet?
I said you "depicted" things as being Peachy or Happy, not that you said it.
So you used a strawman. Boy, that's shocking.
Are you slow or something?
Apparently not slow enough for you to catch.
#1 The Turks besieged, BREIFLY, they never stayed on in large amounts. #2, the Ottoman empire has not been nearly as zealous of religious conversions as Arabs have, #3, if you look at the countries the Muslims invaded, most of them are poor by European standards: Russia (esp. Chechen area), Italy, Hungary, Greece. Greece barely made the U.N. the only thing that got Greece accepted was the thinking by Europeans that they are the "cornerstone of Western civilization." Otherwise, its a pretty poor country, as is Hungary, southern Italy, and Russia.
Yeah, and the poorer countries were the farthest from the epicenter of Western development, i.e. Western Europe.
When did I say or imply that white people are devils?
I didn't say you said it; are you slow or something?
Get a grip on reality and stop reading your 3rd grade public school textbooks.
Ooooh another zinger! Boy, it's too bad you couldn't have lived in Aristotle's or Cicero's time, because your superior Indian intellect would have stopped the development of the Western Canon in its tracks!
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at August 25, 2006 03:16 PM (v3I+x)
104
Maxie
Why do you bother with shitheads like this? You waste your talents on the likes of him! God Maxie! You gotta get another hobby just to relax a bit.
Why do you bother with shitheads like this? You waste your talents on the likes of him! God Maxie! You gotta get another hobby just to relax a bit.
Posted by: hondo at August 25, 2006 05:56 PM (XrexX)
105
Hondo, it's like teaching a pig to sing, (meaning no offense to pigs, of course), but somebody has to try every now and then, just for the sake of amusement if nothing else.
Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at August 26, 2006 07:58 AM (v3I+x)
106
106 comments and I still don't know what is on the Freakin' menu!
How in God's name did this topic earn so many "serious" comments!
How in God's name did this topic earn so many "serious" comments!
Posted by: hondo at August 26, 2006 11:35 AM (XrexX)
107
Name changing of Hitler's Cross. Wonder if Star of David would fly? Or how about Auschwitz Station?
Posted by: Last gasp Larry at August 26, 2006 03:21 PM (gLMre)
108
Better - but late - keep working at it.
Give you a heads up - start working on race-based material to coincide with Surviror's upcoming Battle Of the Races - it may yet be pulled from the Fall schedule.
Also - you definitely need more guidance reference satire and Theater of the Absurb - recommend checking out The Onion (google it) to get some ideas on organization & flow.
Give you a heads up - start working on race-based material to coincide with Surviror's upcoming Battle Of the Races - it may yet be pulled from the Fall schedule.
Also - you definitely need more guidance reference satire and Theater of the Absurb - recommend checking out The Onion (google it) to get some ideas on organization & flow.
Posted by: hondo at August 26, 2006 04:36 PM (XrexX)
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