1 Water mains in Detroit actually bursting from freezing cold. We are doomed. Global cooling is at hand.
We will all freeze in 7 yrs. The level of the ocean will recede and beaches will be destroyed. Florida to place elevators on public to lower people to the water's edge. Polar bears will have a population explosion and start eating people. Doomed I say. Doomed.
 
 
 
Rush Limbaugh has been nominated for the nobel peace prize. Says he is leading advocate of freedom in the world. Go Rush.

2 Brr it was 7 at my house this am.  REcord high for yesterday was 67 set in 1960s record high for Jan 31'st was 73 set in 1911. 

3 Didn't you know, warm summers are proof of global warming, but colder than normal winters aren't proof to the contrary?  Thems are the rules.

4 It would do you a lot of good to familiarize yourself with the science of global warming before you cite any sort of seasonal weather as evidence against it.  We're not going to feel warm due to global warming before the problems (sea level rise, etc) set in.

One day, week, month, or year that is warmer or colder than usual does not prove or disprove global warming.  It is a long term trend, and deviations from a trend are always possible.

5 Actually the planet probably is warming a bit.  We keep burning stuff so we are probably almost up to volcanic activity as far as Co2 and Sulpher dioxide.  Plus we keep trying to "burn clean" meaning less particulates are emitted to offset the gas part of the burn.  There is a reason nature puts particles in smoke.  We keep taking them out.  There must be some money behind it.  Becuase all the focus is in co2 not mention of sulpher dioxide or deforrestation or too much pavement. Hell the report even says we can't stop it. We can sure as hell waste a lot of money trying to stop it.  But ti seems to me that other parts of the problem are ignored.  Some low production farmlands and pastures could be allowed to grow back.  After 100 years you could harvest the timber correctly.  my neighbor gets 30,000 buck worth of timber every ten years.  The Amish come over and get it and pay good meney, his  forest is fine I hunt mushrooms there every spring. New forest is also a carbon trap.

The earth has always been changing, warming and cooling, We adapt well so I have confidence we could adapt to this.  Some species will not be able too but that is the law of nature.  Yes we are part of nature.  We can do a lot to be sure we are not changing things too much but we tend to look at pie in the sky solutions that won't work and will kill the "evil profiteers".   It's all a sillty bunch of crap to double my electric bill so they can double the tax on my electric bill. 

6 What if this current  warming trend is a deviation from a longer-term global cooling trend? In the 1970's, science warned of us of both global cooling in two decades and the population bomb. Neither occured, so the propagandists within the movement extended the timeline out beyond their own and their children's lifetimes. If nobody's around to say who was right or wrong, then you can recycle the same meme over and over again in order to sustain the life of the movment.

How long is the timeline we're using to measure this trend from beginning to end? 1000 years? 100 years? 10 years? Each will reveal different things - the former two, that there is no validity or substance to the hysteria surrounding an uptick of a decimal point of a percent in mean global temperature.

That's probably why we don't hear much about the history of global climate - it would reveal the truth. And the church of anthropogenic global warmingism can't have that.

7 There is only one thing certain about global warming-- China and India won't sign Kyoto, so that treaty will cause more pollution, not less.  I dare any Leftard try to dispute that.

8 Jeeez, didn't you guys get the memo? It's not "global warming" any more, it's "global climate change". See how that works?

9 Hey - lighten up! What else can we expect with all that "globAL warming" on our backs! ;-)

10 Oh how I miss those halcyon days of december and January when global warming/climate change gave me 75 deg weather. What is the worst case scenario? Miam and NY as well as LA and San Fran sink into the sea? Where is the down side? Deserts get hotter? They are already hot as hell and dry in the desert. Only a moron would choose to live where they must be supported artificially.

11 "Only a moron would choose to live where they must be supported artificially."

Oh, so you don't use electricity or oil or gasoline? Hey you RINO hippie, you can't diss Al Gore AND wear patchouli, you know.

"There is only one thing certain about global warming-- China and India won't sign Kyoto, so that treaty will cause more pollution, not less."

Creating a treaty that tries to get nations to cap pollution causes more pollution? Carlos, with that reasoning, why do we even have laws? Oh, and hello as well. Long time no see. I've been hiding in a cave too long. After a while, I realized Bush was never after me in the first place! How are ya doin'?

12 osama,

last I heard kyoto doesn't bind developing countries-- including some of the biggest polluters, India and China-- which means our industries would flock to those countries where Kyoto would make it even cheaper to do business there than it already is, and where there are hardly any pollution controls at all.  The result would be more pollution, not less.  Your precious treaty is nothing more than an exercise in Liberal white guilt and would literally cause more harm than good.  Thanks for asking.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/kyoto/

13 IPCC
 
Working  Group 1,2,3 issued in 2001.....
 
VERY LIKELY:
 
1) Higher daily maximum temperatures and more hot days over nearly all the earth
 
2) Warmer overnight low temperatures
 
3) Fewer cold days and frost days over nearly all land
 
4) Reduced differences between daily highs and lows  (say, 0 degrees or 8 below, that's cold no matter the numbers, its' all low)
 
5) MORE INTENSE  rain or SNOWSTORMS over many areas
 
6) A higher risk of summer droughts over inland areas of mid latitude continents
 
While snow cover and sea ice will continue decreasing and glaciers melt ***the Antaractic ice sheet will contnue to grow.  ***This is because WARMER air will hold more water vapor, which will increase the amount of snow in areas otherwise to cold to snow.  The climate changes during the warming phenomenon can actually make some places colder. 
 
CLIMATE CHANGE ACTUALLY REFERS TO AND AVERAGE OF TEMPERATURES OF EARTH OVER THE YEARS NOT TO TEMPERTURES AT PARTICULAR TIMES AND PLACES.  Which is why it is a bit of a misnomer to call it global warming.  In essence it is the ***UNPREDICTABILITY of  climate changes which is so dangerous.   
 
Of course knowing any of this would be if one was so inclined to actually read, say the IPCC report.  Of course no report written taking 6 years, combining the work of adjudication by 2500 scientists, 800 contributors, 450 authors from 130 countries is enough for the insanity of the contrarians to assuage their guilt over their pimped lifesyle enough to change their ways.  All these people just get together just to make sh** up.  Line by line they edit just for fun.
 
But the golden goose showed up just in time to offer the scientists and economists $10k each plus travel and perks if only they would remand their efforts to the dustbin of history.  Imagine that, Exxon thinking scientists could be bought off for as little as $10K.  I guess they must be used to buying off sheeple.  Indoctination comes pretty cheap for the evangelical oil morons.
 
Anyone bothered to check into what the IPCC report has to say for 2007??
 
Heck no, too busy killing kids in Iraq.

14 issued in 2001.....
 
VERY LIKELY:

Except none of it came true!  Just like hurricane season last year never came true.  LOL. 

You are a religious cultist, nothing more.  Even your proselytizing is religious in it's fervor.  You don't debate.  You just proselytize. LOL.

15 This thread is under control                       USA, all the way!

16 USA! All the way! (underwater) hehehe. Carlos, I see your point now. Don't you think it would be better if all countries had to be in the treaty? It's no wonder the biggest polluters aren't into it. Either way, I think jobs are going to these countries regardless. It's no wonder the dollar isn't doing well. As usual, the world's problems can mostly be attributed to greed or religious nutjobs. The outlook is pretty bleak!

17 Hey moonbats:


Feel free to prove any anthropogenic cause for "global warming."


Until you do, spare us your doomsday predictions.


I hope the Earth is warming. America would be much better off with increased fertile seasons and clear roads. The Canadians would love to own houses instead of igloos.

18 Uh oh. Here comes Buttholz to chime in. I'll play...

How about the massive spike in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that is exactly paralleled to development in industrialized society?

How about how carbon dioxide levels are directly tied in with heat/cold extremes and dramatic climate shifts like ice shelves busting for the first time in recorded history, or the frequency of bad storms increasing?

The funny thing is, why would you not believe the warnings of the solid majority of scientists who agree that this is not a scare tactic & that it is real. It's not like they lack evidence.

Of course science is not perfect, but who would you rather believe: a scientist wanting to help humanity or some corporate shill paid to confuse the public? Do you trust oil companies? I don't. Even though I know most of you think this is all a bunch of crap, I'm not trying to be a jackass by saying all this. I also don't think this is all about lefturd moonbats.

I'm also wondering why Evangelical Christians find modern science so threatening...like archaeology, global warming, etc. It's like they treat it as a direct threat. If anyone here is Evangelical, please respond.

Buttholz, if you respond seriously without being insulting, I'll start calling you by your real name again.

19

osamabinthere: The 'hockey stick' is a lie   get real ...

I can't wait for the ocean to finally get here! It's been awhile since I have been to the coast, and I think it  will be just lovely if instead of me driving all that way, I could just jog down to it in the morning. I expect, like all promises made by the left, your going to let me down on this one as well.

Oh crap! I just realized that I was being optimistic! With your sides track record for honesty, I'll probably have to shovel a tunnel to the wood pile, to keep my home livable in July when this whole warming thing turns back into an ice age ...

Or more likely, I'll have to shovel straight down till I hit a coal bed. Trees don't do so well when it gets all glacial at my latitude.

If I do enough digging, I can create a shelter to keep humans alive despite the coming global ice sheet that must be coming.

Hey, I know what to do! I can hire illegals to do all the digging, since we are going to just pretend they aren't a problem anyway, I might as well take advantage. It's not like any Americans will want to do the work ... isn't that what you keep saying?

Since they will be working under the table, I can count on their desire to avoid capture to keep them in my thrall, and after awhile when they all die from black-lung, I can loot their corpses, let them dry out, then burn them as well. They should be good for a lot of btu's don't you think? I'm sure glad we don't try and fix the immigration problem, now that I see how useful a helpless underclass can be. All I have to do to be OK with this is adopt the 'moral relativism' of the left, and suddenly this horrible exploitation of a greivance group makes perfect sense. They WANT me to do it to them! And it's for their own good! Elitists know best!

I'm sure glad I don't have to worry about global warming though. I should have known it was a hoax outright, what with Al Gore being a major spokesperson and all.

Really, I'm sorry if you don't think I'm treating this seriously, but global warming alarmism, along with nearly all other leftist religious sermons, are just a bunch of big jokes. They are so stale and old, that any attempt to improve them is almost certain to succeed.

Aiming facts at you is like trying to reason with a mosquito. You just keep buzzing with the same whiney pitch to your voices, trying to suck blood from the productive members of society, so you can lay more eggs in your smelly old bog!  I know you don't care about how much the science that "supports" global warming has been doctored. So why should I bother trying to reason with you?

Really, why should anyone try to reason with you?  Even this question is an literal waste of time, because you think YOUR the one who is trying to reason with us ... but we all know that flaming lunatics who don't accept that the 'hockey stick' is a lie. aren't able to reason out a damn thing

You lefties are a hoot! "I didn't have sexual relations ..." Blah blah blah! Any intellectually honest person understood what the intent of the question was, therefore any intellectually honest person knows that in plain English, Clinton lied. "It depends on your definition ..."  Hah! Like anyone of even average intelligence couldn't understand the context, or the direction of inquiry. Clinton lied. You guys lie about so much, I think it must be pathological.

Lies like Pelosi saying she was going to have the most ethical Congress ... *Snicker*  Does she really believe this crap, or does she just read what her speech writers prepare?

Gobal Warming ... Yup! Sure!  Must be true! It depends on what your definition of 'warming' is, I would guess?  Sort of like it's going to get warmer for the next several months, at an insane pace, and it will do so again, next year about this same time .... Heh!

Tha stuff about a midevil warm period sure is interesting. I guess it isn't important, or Al Gore would have said something about it.

osamabinthere, wherever 'there' is, you should go back to. I make this suggestion because I'm really bored with you. Or at least pick a different topic. Maybe something you know something about? Maybe something just a little bit fresh and new?

I'd appreciate either one, but PLEASE, no more global warming nonsense, because that is what it is. Why don't you go find me a moderate Muslim, and bring them here to post. If you agree to try, I'll match you by trying to get a Unicorn to show up here. I happen to know that both creatures exist, which is more than I can say about your imaginary weather spirit.

That IS a formal challenge!

USA, all the way!

20 Michael:

Reading your posting was fun...

If you don't want discussions about global warming, how come you guys post about it all the time?

Also, the right-wingers never lie? Is that what you are saying?

Also, if the "hockey stick" is a lie, how come you don't have any proof to disprove? Can you supply me with anything other than "it's a lie"?

What really cracks me up is that your post was pretty much a hate filled rant against Gore, Clinton, Pelosi, the whole left wing, etc. Did I leave out immigrants? Either way, who do you think elects these people? Americans. Are you anti-America?

Please, take a second to turn off Faux News, turn off Savage on the radio and listen:

"I can't wait for the ocean to finally get here!"

You won't have long to wait if you live in Florida.

"Oh crap! I just realized that I was being optimistic! With your sides track record for honesty, I'll probably have to shovel a tunnel to the wood pile, to keep my home livable in July when this whole warming thing turns back into an ice age"

Yeah, the Republicans have a great track record. That's why they are getting voted out.

"Hey, I know what to do! I can hire illegals to do all the digging, since we are going to just pretend they aren't a problem anyway, I might as well take advantage. It's not like any Americans will want to do the work ... isn't that what you keep saying?"

I never said anything about illegals or Americans not wanting jobs. Where are you getting this?

"All I have to do to be OK with this is adopt the 'moral relativism' of the left, and suddenly this horrible exploitation of a greivance group makes perfect sense. They WANT me to do it to them! And it's for their own good! Elitists know best!"

Ah, the old Repug method of blaming someone else for what you feel guilty of? Blame the victim is a good method too. Hey, I'd come up with crap like that too if my party was known to be more racist.

"I'm sure glad I don't have to worry about global warming though. I should have known it was a hoax outright, what with Al Gore being a major spokesperson and all."

Yeah, if Gore says it's true....then my scientific conclusion is it must be wrong. Evidence or facts are instantly void if Gore says it's true.

"You lefties are a hoot! "I didn't have sexual relations ..." Blah blah blah! Any intellectually honest person understood what the intent of the question was, therefore any intellectually honest person knows that in plain English, Clinton lied. "It depends on your definition ..." Hah! Like anyone of even average intelligence couldn't understand the context, or the direction of inquiry. Clinton lied. You guys lie about so much, I think it must be pathological."

Yup, you got me. I'm busted. Everyone but the right-wing lies. You guys are all going to heaven within 40 years when the rapture happens. No wonder you don't like the idea of treating the environment with a little more respect. Do you shit in your bed? Pee on your living room rug? Do you pee on other people's rugs? Were you in the Big Lebowski?

"lies like Pelosi saying she was going to have the most ethical Congress ... *Snicker* Does she really believe this crap, or does she just read what her speech writers prepare?"

I dunno, ask Bush. I heard he's an expert on ethics and speeches.

"Tha stuff about a midevil warm period sure is interesting. I guess it isn't important, or Al Gore would have said something about it."

Ok, if it's so interesting, surely you can tell me what caused it and back it up with data?

"osamabinthere, wherever 'there' is, you should go back to. I make this suggestion because I'm really bored with you. Or at least pick a different topic. Maybe something you know something about? Maybe something just a little bit fresh and new?"

If you were so bored, why would you spout off so much?

"Why don't you go find me a moderate Muslim, and bring them here to post."

I wouldn't wish that on anyone, regardless if they were a Muslim or not. Oh, can you lure someone here so I can fight them? Hahaha.

"If you agree to try, I'll match you by trying to get a Unicorn to show up here. I happen to know that both creatures exist, which is more than I can say about your imaginary weather spirit."

Yeah, we all know modern science and technology is all fake story book stuff. Hell, even the computer you're reading from is a illusion created by Al Gore to scare everyone into becoming a moonbat!

21 Osamasbutthair:


Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere have fallen, not risen, and they do not preceed warming cycles, they succeed them. They do not match warming trends either. The mini ice age in the late 19th century and early twentieth century had higher Co2 levels than we have today.


It's a moot point because Co2 makes up less than 2% of so called "greenhouse gasses," and does not cause temperature increases.


The polar ice caps are thickening, and 2006 had less violent storms than any of the preceeding ten years.


The majority of PHD level climatologists dismiss anthropogenic warming as pure hokum. Only the unprincipled twats looking to ride the gravy train of free funding push the doomsday scenario. They have no evidence to support their wild claims, which is why you are unable to provide any.


I guess I missed those Big oil fatcats telling the public that anthropogenic warming doesn't exist. Of course, I don't wear a tinfoil hat, so i miss a lot of interesting transmissions.


"Evangelical" Christians are not the ones spreading psuedo-science for monetary gain, leftbots are. Do you think atheists invented light bulbs, air-conditioning, television, recorded music, refrigeration, automobiles, planes, etc? Even your beloved Darwin was a Christian. I'd be interested to know what kind of Christian doesn't follow the Evangels, by the way.


Idiot.

22 Yeah. I'm sure the scientists haven't considered this. You guys sure showed them. Jeff, you're still retarded I see. So about that blog... are we starting it or what?

Come on man... we'll be the first Left / Right blog team. Whaddya say?

23 Bargbuttholz:

"Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere have fallen, not risen, and they do not preceed warming cycles, they succeed them. They do not match warming trends either. The mini ice age in the late 19th century and early twentieth century had higher Co2 levels than we have today."

Really. So all those ice cores going back 160,000 years are lying. Considering we have the highest carbon dioxide levels in history, with a huge spike since the industrial revolution + the hottest years on record EVER in the past 14 years...does this not make you wonder?

"It's a moot point because Co2 makes up less than 2% of so called "greenhouse gasses," and does not cause temperature increases."

Another falsehood. It is scientifically proven they are linked. If you disagree, show me proof. I've got 46 countries and the majority of the world's scientists on my side.

"The polar ice caps are thickening, and 2006 had less violent storms than any of the preceeding ten years."

Hmmmm. another lie. I guess you didn't notice that all the world's glaciers are rapidly melting? Or maybe those huge unprecedented Rhode Island sized ice shelves breaking off? Hmmmm.

"The majority of PHD level climatologists dismiss anthropogenic warming as pure hokum. Only the unprincipled twats looking to ride the gravy train of free funding push the doomsday scenario. They have no evidence to support their wild claims, which is why you are unable to provide any."

So all those scientists who just made news were a bunch of kooks. Who are your scientists? I dare you to mention one who isn't a oil shill.

"I guess I missed those Big oil fatcats telling the public that anthropogenic warming doesn't exist. Of course, I don't wear a tinfoil hat, so i miss a lot of interesting transmissions."

Well, maybe if you watched something besides faux news, you'd know that oil fats cats were just trying to pay 10,000 per scientist to get them to counter all the evidence coming out supporting global warming.

""Evangelical" Christians are not the ones spreading psuedo-science for monetary gain, leftbots are."

Oh yeah, you trust the big oil and politicians. Smart choice Jeff. Evangelicals think fossils were planted by the devil and man walked with dinosaurs...and you want to talk about pseudo-science? Give me a fucking break.

"Do you think atheists invented light bulbs, air-conditioning, television, recorded music, refrigeration, automobiles, planes, etc?"

Never said they did.

"Even your beloved Darwin was a Christian. I'd be interested to know what kind of Christian doesn't follow the Evangels, by the way."

That's easy. The ones who aren't brainwashed. The ones who aren't hypocrites like Haggard. The ones who enjoy reality.

Jeff, I'm asking you to back up your arguments, but you have no hard evidence. Give it up, or provide me with hard (non-oil funded) science that proves your points.

24 saay, whered my comment go....

i just said that i thought the moonbat thing was funny... and al gore is a sad silly man.

25 Jake, repost!

26

osamabinhiding: You might bestir your lazy leftist hide to type "Medieval Warm Period" into a search engine!

You might also bother to follow this link, for starters ...

http://www.biocab.org/Global_Warming.html

You might also consider that if you would do this kind of cross checking BEFORE hand, you might be treated to a little more respect. Just repeating your Global Warming religious dogma really is a waste of your time, and mine.

When someone tells you there is an alternative to the "consensus" you should WANT to find out more. We have been hearing the voice of "consensus" till our ears bleed, but that isn't the whole truth, and it may not be true AT ALL!

And you should check out Al Gore, Occidental Oil, and Armand Hammer, or is that to much work?

And I'm getting that unicorn, so you better not wimp out on finding a moderate Muslim. I've been looking for one to talk to, but they are apparently not as common as unicorns, so I remind you that YOU ARE CHALLENGED!

Meantime ... USA, all the way!

27 Haha, Michael. It's gonna take me a while... I barely know any people who are Muslim. In the meantime, I do agree that a person should always want to know more. I'll google & you find that damn unicorn.

28

UNICORN ALERT.

I don't know how to put up pictures, and the link is a bit annoying, but I'll start with this ...

http://www.lair2000.net/Unicorn_Dreams/Unicorns_Man_Made/unicorns_man_made.html

Now this takes you to a real unicorn named Lancelot, that was making public appearances and was on TV, and I hope anyone interested will take a look.

So for those who say there is no such thing, here you go.

Now as to the legendary moderate Muslim, I know they exist, but it is very hard to get them to come out publically. I've been turned down by some moderates who are afriad of the backlash, and its dimming my hopes, so I am eager to see what Osamabinthere comes up with.

On Global warming science, I only know for sure, that the debate isn't over, and there is a lot of evidence that global warming alarmists don't consider. Like the unicorn, they say its not real, so they don't give it consideration.

When science is ignored, or discarded because it doesn't fit the "consensus" this makes me deeply suspicious of the motives of those who are doing the discarding. I am especially suspicious of those who would have us adopt policies that weaken our position, while allowing our rivals, and our enemies to move forward unimpeded.  I am also suspicious when such policies increase the size and intrusiveness of our federal government, and place our 'government by the people' under the authority of one-world socialists and bureaucrats.

I need to KNOW global warming is a genuine, and serious risk, and that it can be mitigated sucessfully, before I can endorse any behavior that runs against obvious American interests. Whether it is man made or not is really not important IF global warming isn't really dangerous, or IF it can't be stopped anyway. If this is going to be a global catastrophy no matter what we do, then it is smarter to use our wealth to adapt to the change, rather than waste our resources trying to stop an irresistable force.

I hope you get a laugh out of the Unicorn, but I had trouble with the link before, so it may take a few tries.

Anyway, USA, all the way!

29 I tested the link, and you should see the unicorn.       USA, all the way!

30 Osamasbutthair:


If you're going to lie blatantly, lie to someone else. Not even Al Gore is stupid enough to claim current levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere are the highest in "history." Carbon dioxide is an integtral componenet of the atmosphere necessary for life on this planet, by the way.


The hottest year on record did not occur in the last 14 years, and hot Summers have nothing to do with carbon dioxide levels. You still haven't pasted any evidence that anthropogenic warming is even possible, much less a reality. Newsflash, retard: High temperatures come first, increased carbon dioxide levels come second, when they come at all. Learn the difference between cause and effect.


The flat Earthers pushing global warming do so for monetary gain and to harm America's economy, when they aren't doing it from outright stupidity, as you are. Your phony stats don't address the simple facts concerning global sky falling. Nobody has been able to prove whether global temperatures are even rising, much less that humanity is the cause. All of the global climate forums since the ridiculous Kyoto produced forecasts that have turned out to be 100% wrong. All of them. If you can produce one forecast that turned out to be accurate, I'll buy you some new antennae for your tinfoil hat.


You know even less about Evangelicals than you do about global worrying. The Evangels are the Gospels, dimwit. The books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They relay the teachings of Jesus, and there isn't a Christian on the planet who doesn't consider them important. Claiming that Evangelicals hold lockstep beliefs about the age of the universe shows your overweening ignorance, reliance on anti-Christian hate tracts, and hopeless nihilism. Coming from a dork who thinks deodorant spray cans have killed Winter, your calumny about Christians is a joke.


If you're really worried about the flat earth getting too warm, stop using your mom's computer. The electricity used to power it is probably  generated by burning coal. Stop riding the short bus, too. It runs on deisel fuel, which is the dirtiest fuel available. I probably don't have to warn you against using deodorant, do I, stinky?


Stop spanking yourself so much. The loss of protein is causing massive brain degeneration.

31 Michael...hilarious unicorn page. Oh, just so you know: There's a chance I wouldn't be able to find a moderate Muslim. Not because there aren't any, but I don't know any. I'm an something between Agnostic and Atheist myself! Always have been.

Now, on to Buttholz:

"If you're going to lie blatantly, lie to someone else. Not even Al Gore is stupid enough to claim current levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere are the highest in "history." Carbon dioxide is an integtral componenet of the atmosphere necessary for life on this planet, by the way."

Jeff, you're such a dumb fuck. Do I need to whack you on the head with the ice core samples to get through to you? Yes, Al Gore states they are the highest in recorded history right now. If you want the direct quote I'll get it for you. Also: Duh, yes carbon dioxide is part of our atmosphere and nessisarry for life. Do you think I don't know what photosynthesis is? The point is that man made imbalances have consequences. Or are you the type who craps upstream and then wonders why people downstream got sick?

"The hottest year on record did not occur in the last 14 years, and hot Summers have nothing to do with carbon dioxide levels."

Ah, so all those thousands of scientists from 113 countries were just kiddin'. Ok. I'll only believe you.

"Newsflash, retard: High temperatures come first, increased carbon dioxide levels come second, when they come at all. Learn the difference between cause and effect."

News flash fuck face, you are proof that retards can use computers. You have it backwards.

"The flat Earthers pushing global warming do so for monetary gain and to harm America's economy"

Ok, then tell me why they would do that and how.

"Nobody has been able to prove whether global temperatures are even rising, much less that humanity is the cause"

Again, it's your shrill little voice drowned out my mountains of data. I think you should go into the unicorn business since at least Michael has brains enough to admit that there are possibilities that this is caused by humans. You flat out reject the whole kahuna. Pathetic.

"You know even less about Evangelicals than you do about global worrying. The Evangels are the Gospels, dimwit. The books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They relay the teachings of Jesus, and there isn't a Christian on the planet who doesn't consider them important. Claiming that Evangelicals hold lockstep beliefs about the age of the universe shows your overweening ignorance, reliance on anti-Christian hate tracts, and hopeless nihilism. Coming from a dork who thinks deodorant spray cans have killed Winter, your calumny about Christians is a joke."

The joke is on you and the Evangelicals. It's not my fault you're all delusional. Maybe you should rent "Jesus Camp" and then go do some meth with Haggard. I heard that he's been "cured" of his homosexuality, so you don't have to worry about a thing!


"If you're really worried about the flat earth getting too warm, stop using your mom's computer. The electricity used to power it is probably generated by burning coal. Stop riding the short bus, too. It runs on deisel fuel, which is the dirtiest fuel available. I probably don't have to warn you against using deodorant, do I, stinky? Stop spanking yourself so much. The loss of protein is causing massive brain degeneration."

Is this another one of those Repug tactics to blame accuse someone else of what you are doing? You're not painting a very bright picture of yourself, Buttholz. Oh, and I know you have spell check. Use it, or stop getting drunk before you type.

32 Figures. I have a typo in that last post after dissing Buttholz for not using spell check. Must be from "protein" loss. Or maybe it's all the carbon dioxide in the air? Blech.

33 Also: I heard that conserving on fossil fuels right now would send the wrong message to the earth. It would embolden our planet. We need to show the earth we mean business! More pollution! The earth needs to know we have the stomach for this fight!

34

Well I was going to move to the 'Unicorn' that Howie helped me post, but I will leave this comment regarding the battle between Jeff, and Osama. Leave off the Bible bashing. Jesus obviously was focused on healing our souls, not arguening over metaphoral ages of the creation. Jeff is corect that we don't know enough about who may be causing what EXACTLY, and that we can resonably doubt the motives of alarmists.

OsamaB(?) is correct that we have an impact, but is over the top in suuggesting that we so called 'deniers' want to pollute everything in sight. I know I can speak for Jeff when I say WE don't have any problems with clean air and water, we just don't like draconian laws imposed through alarmism. Global warming is not as reliably established as (Oh say ...) global barbarity in the name of Islam, and the fact that terrorist use our own territory to launch attacks against us. That danger is clearly real. We know climate change has been real for billions of years, but we don't know if it is dangerous, or what really causes it. One of these things is not like the other ...

I never ruled out a human contribution to enviromental changes, because everything affects the enviroment, and for people who get all their education from movies, I would point out the discussion of chaos theory in the first Jurrasic Park movie. Basically lots of little things affect the enviroment.

(Having a dyslexic day, and this is getting hard, so please forgive errors, I'll catch what I can)

The counteracting arguement to a butterfly flapping its wings, and making it rain in NYC, is the self regulating theory which is easily explained using a pond, or swimming pool, and any handy object. Just throw it into the water, and watch the ripples. Eventually they fade. If you use a stream for your test, the 'oblect' will have an effect lasting a fraction of a second, and it will be over. In other words things will move from extremes states to normal states on their own, even if they are tampred with.

Neither theory is bullet proof. A stream may SEEM invulnerable to your influence, but the bottom just came up by that small fraction that you added when you threw the object into the water. On the other hand it takes an awful lot of butterflies to create a Katrina, and I doubt there is enough butterfly mass on earth to flap that hard.

As to what the effects of human activity are, we are not SURE.

There is credible arguement that we are already SLOWING the natural global warming that would have occured without us, and that in itself argues for us to both examine the problem, but not to do anything rash.

I am more concerned with the social agenda of some alarmists. There are those who want us to place our national soveriegnty under the authority of treaties which undermine our Constitutional rights. Without good reason, I cannot support placing our nation under the authority of the UN, or similar organization. To many member states seek our downfall. To many of them posses the kneejerk anti-Americanism that comes from being on the wrong side of justice. If they can wound our economy, they will do it. The real Osama has said as much to his followers. mant state actors share his goal, if not directly employing his methods.

To OSAMABINHANGINGAROUND. I was ranting a bit. I have friends on the left that I do not yell at, so don't think it's my regular state. Still I would be glad to know you at least looked at the other side of the argument, and IF it affected your opinion.

USA, all the way!

35 Michael...I wish Jeff was as eloquent as yourself when posting. Even if I'm disagreeing with you, it's not like we are throwing turds at each other. I guess what I'm hoping is that we get the hell off fossil fuels ASAP. There's gotta be way to transition without messing with the economy. Between the wind, water and sun there's a lot to be harnessed...and all without pollution in the air. Even the thought of not depending on other countries for oil is reason enough. Btw, ranting is just fine with me. Please supply those links again...I can't find the ones you sent before. As far as religion...my beef is more with hypocrites or those who blatantly spread misinformation to children or kill in the name of god. If they are none of the above, I have no problem with 'em!

Unicorns, all the way!

36

http://www.biocab.org/Global_Warming.html

I thought that one was kinda of allright, but there are a lot of others if you look around.  This link will provide lots of useful fuel for googling. One thing that you will find out right away is that there is a lot of effort put into debunking the midieval warm period just by itself. If you start to look at cosmic rays, solar output, and volcanic activity, cows, tec, you will see a lot of other variables get thrown into the mix.

I have a favorite article in two parts I'll relocate for you. Ultimately, wherever you start your search, this will require a lot of personal time just reading the alternative views.

I started really looking at this hard when I realized some famous commentators were telling me things that seemed to directly contradict things I had learned by studying prehistoric history. Al Gore was one of the first I looked at, and it was his contradictory relationship to Occidental Oil and his fathers connections to Armand Hammer that finally put Al in the dog house. He wasn't even trying to live a green lifestyle. This launched me into looking at who gets paid by who, for what, and why.

Keep an eye out, and I'll try and get something in the next couple of hours.

USA, all the way!

37 Hey Michael...

Before I spend time reading anything, I always consider the source. The link you sent, funded by big oil/coal?

Here are some some shills I discovered:

Fred Singer is a Research Fellow at the Independent Institute, a recipient of Philip Morris and Exxon/Mobile funds and has received multiple grants from Exxon-Mobil. Given his professional History it would seem that Singer is little more than a hired gun trying to spread misinformation information. He and those like him did so for the Tobacco industry and are doing so now for the Energy industry.

James Taylor, works for the conservative think tank/propaganda site Heartland Institute. Which and whom is supported by guess who? the oil and gas industry. Their primary concern it seems is to advocate the theory that global warming is a myth.

Pat Michaels is associated with and has received money directly from among others, the Intermountain Rural Electric Association, ($100,000) and more than $115,000 over the last four years from coal and energy interests.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_F._Hayward

Do you have any reports from non-oil, coal or electricity funded scientific organizations relying on peer reviewed research? I am really trying had to find one that is independent that offers in-depth information about the warming period you've mentioned.

Also...I was wrong about the ice cores going back 160,000 years. A study by researchers at the Physics Institute at the University of Bern and the European Project for Ice Coring in Antarctic presenting data from Antarctic ice cores showing carbon dioxide concentrations higher than at any time during the past 650,000 years.

No one is saying the climate doesn't go through cycles of warming and cooling. Neither is anyone saying that man is the sole cause of warming. The whole global warming thing implicates that activities have increased the warming trend beyond the scope of natural cycles, and that this trend is continuing to accelerate. It seems those who point to previous climate cycles as evidence that man isn't to blame for the current situation are simply knocking down straw men at a furious pace.

Why would 928 peer reviewed scientific articles on climate change supporting global warming be so wrong? What would they have to gain through deception?

Either way, more links...I'm very interested. It's not easy, as there are craploads of "experts" (non-scientist) postings all over the place. It's pretty exhausting to weed through it all.

38

Quick comment on "Shills". I personally hate Ted Rall, but sometimes he is so right. I know he is a "leftist stormstrooper" but I can't dismiss what he says WHEN HE IS CORRECT!

I'm willing to remove a factual statement, or a solidly logical arguement from the forum where it was presented to me, and look at it on it's own merits.

Al Gore has many strikes against him besides oil ties, and taken together, they are to much for me to accept him at his word. On the other hand Lieberman I can mostly believe, because I see that despite ties to a particular party, he is still bound by personal priciples for which he is willing to sacrifice.

Your doctor makes money off of you when your sick, but you trust him to help you get better. Corporations fund research, and have done so for a long time, yet we still expect accurate data.

There is a lot to talk about, but I need to get some sleep for tonight. I don't know what time it is for you, but it's 4:15 AM, and I need to be up again in about five hours. I'll be back either here, or another climate thread. Just remember that even if you hate the source, it can still provide truth. Ted Rall taught me that, in spite of himself.

USA, all the way!

39 Hey Michael...

I copied everything over so I can go through it all. I'm not saying I love Al Gore either, just so you know. Funny thing is, my fiancé's parents voted Bush twice and almost didn't watch Gore's film just because they hate Gore. I was told they rented it last week and although they hated the messenger, they thought the film was very important.

As far as shills go...of course oil money filters into almost everything. It's the scientists that are paid to deliberately mislead that I'm worried about. Remember when 9 out of 10 doctors preferred Marlborough Cigarettes?

Either way, I'll go through the info. I'll try to ignore all the bullshit and glean some info. Makes you wish the country wasn't so polarized.

"Your doctor makes money off of you when your sick, but you trust him to help you get better. Corporations fund research, and have done so for a long time, yet we still expect accurate data."

Ha! I actually don't trust most doctors. Especially my psychologist. Just kidding. I actually cancelled my health insurance the other day. I felt they were taking too much and I wasn't getting any benefits. Most think it would be stupid to not have any health insurance: "What is something happens?" Oh, like a car accident? They only cover up to 15g. That doesn't cover much if you actually needed some serious medical attention. Dental coverage? Laughable. I'm young though...46 bpm resting heart rate, low cholesterol and a healthy family history. Don't even get me started on Western medicine either...haha. I have never thought throwing a pill at something was a cure. More like treating the symptom but not the cause.

So yeah. Lots of reading. I gotta get to it.

Btw, a little off topic, but related (oil): I'm sure you heard about the recent CEO cash-out at Exxon...what was it, 400? 500 million? Imagine if they had used 350 million to develop alternative energy? I mean really...does it hurt some old fart to ONLY get 50 million on the way out? I'm all about the free market, but I still feel there has to be some sort of regulations. Like maybe a CEO pay cap of 20 million. Who could piss and moan about not being able to make more than that? Seriously, how greedy can someone be allowed to get?

40 Oh yeah, and regarding the virus you got...makes me glad I have a Mac! If Apple had more than 5% market share, I'd be a little worried about security a little more...not that I don't take precautions.

41 On capitalism ... If there is always a bigger prize to work for, you will find someone willing to try and win it.         USA, all the way!

42

Osamasbutthair:



Once again you have failed to back up a single plagiarized claim you made. You cant prove a falsehood, and you cant disprove a fact, but that‘s the price you pay for being a moonbat moron.


Co2 levels are not now the highest in recorded history, nor in all of history, as you first claimed.


Co2 does not cause global warming.


Co2 makes up less than 2% of greenhouse gasses. Water vapor makes up more than 97%, and its relationship with ocean currents such as El Nino is the main cause of naturally occurring climate change cycles.


Mankind does not add more Co2 to the atmosphere than vegetation converts to oxygen, and couldn't if we tried.


So-called “greenhouse gasses” do not create a greenhouse effect.


A greenhouse effect has never existed on the planet Earth--not even during the age of the dinosaurs.


Every prediction made by every climate convention held since the Kyoto convention has turned out to be dead wrong.


The predictions made at Kyoto about temperature increase rates placed mean global temperature more than 13 degrees higher than it actually is.


The "experts" and "scientists" quoted from most UN focus groups are actually policy makers and politicians. They are thoroughly unreliable--as is any climatologist who backs anthropogenic global warming/climate change.


The same liars and idiots claiming the Earth is warming used to claim it was cooling. Opposite doomsday scenarios, same lack of facts.


A lie is a lie, no matter how many fools repeat it.


Nobody can say for sure if the Earth is getting warmer or not, but the maximum increase for the last 75 years may be about 1 degree Fahrenheit.


Flat Earthers don't go back more than 75 years in their phony climate models because the Earth suffered a mini ice-age at the turn of the 20th century.


Temperature readings prior to the satellite age were crude surface readings, and so inaccurate in any model used to gauge long term climate change. Temperature readings now are atmospheric readings.


Those are the facts, tard-boy. No amount of peter-puffing can make up for your protein deficiency.


As far as Christians go, I can claim Galileo, Shakespeare, Newton, Bach, Darwin, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Melville, Conrad, Einstein, and John Wayne in my camp. Who can you claim in yours, dweeb? Besides Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Chompsky, Manson, and Dahmer.


Comparing my unspecified typos to your sub-standard writing skills was hilarious. You write about as well as you debate.


Don't let the record cold temperatures we're experiencing get you down. I'm sure the globe will begin warming when Summer rolls around. Try not to freeze to death in the meantime.

 

 

43 "Once again you have failed to back up a single plagiarized claim you made. You cant prove a falsehood, and you cant disprove a fact, but that‘s the price you pay for being a moonbat moron."

Uh, I have backed it up. If you would read my posts thoroughly, you would find I cite specific research. Wingnut reactionary.

"Co2 levels are not now the highest in recorded history, nor in all of history, as you first claimed."

Ice cores, idiot.

"Co2 does not cause global warming."

Prove it. Give me one, just ONE study saying it doesn't that isn't funded by the oil/coal industry.

"Co2 makes up less than 2% of greenhouse gasses. Water vapor makes up more than 97%, and its relationship with ocean currents such as El Nino is the main cause of naturally occurring climate change cycles."

Comparing a worldwide atmospheric change to El Nino? Are you trying to tell me El Nino is causing global warming? Give me a break, you really are grasping.

"Mankind does not add more Co2 to the atmosphere than vegetation converts to oxygen, and couldn't if we tried."

That would make a great slogan for clear cutting! Bravo! Again, Jeff...you have farted and accused everyone else in the room of stinking up these posts.

"So-called “greenhouse gasses” do not create a greenhouse effect."

Hmmm...all the world's leading scientists must be dead wrong then. I'll believe you. What are your credentials again?

"A greenhouse effect has never existed on the planet Earth--not even during the age of the dinosaurs."

Yeah, maybe because they didn't burn fossil fuels! Hahaha. They were too busy turning into fossil fuels.

"Every prediction made by every climate convention held since the Kyoto convention has turned out to be dead wrong."

Proof. Give me proof not covered in oily fingerprints. At least Michael can carry on a sane conversation. We can find a middle ground and swap links, but you're being a fucking pud. Stop wasting my time.

"The predictions made at Kyoto about temperature increase rates placed mean global temperature more than 13 degrees higher than it actually is."

Give me proof.

"The "experts" and "scientists" quoted from most UN focus groups are actually policy makers and politicians. They are thoroughly unreliable--as is any climatologist who backs anthropogenic global warming/climate change."

Black and white Jeff world: Anyone who hints climate change is at all the fault of humans = thoroughly unreliable. Pathetic.

"The same liars and idiots claiming the Earth is warming used to claim it was cooling. Opposite doomsday scenarios, same lack of facts."

Show me proof. Never heard this.

"A lie is a lie, no matter how many fools repeat it."

Applies nicely to yourself. Rinse, lather, repeat.

"Nobody can say for sure if the Earth is getting warmer or not, but the maximum increase for the last 75 years may be about 1 degree Fahrenheit."

OMFG. You almost admitted to global warming.

"Flat Earthers don't go back more than 75 years in their phony climate models because the Earth suffered a mini ice-age at the turn of the 20th century."

Oh, so nobody EVER collected ice cores. I trust you Jeff, you are the authority on global science.

"Temperature readings prior to the satellite age were crude surface readings, and so inaccurate in any model used to gauge long term climate change. Temperature readings now are atmospheric readings."

Hmmmm, so then how did you come about claiming the Medieval warming period was hotter than temperatures today? Duh. Thought so.

"Those are the facts, tard-boy. No amount of peter-puffing can make up for your protein deficiency."

I thought you didn't use facts. Isn't that your whole m.o.?

"As far as Christians go, I can claim Galileo, Shakespeare, Newton, Bach, Darwin, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Melville, Conrad, Einstein, and John Wayne in my camp. Who can you claim in yours, dweeb? Besides Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Chompsky, Manson, and Dahmer."

Maybe you should read some Richard Dawkins. You might benefit from "The God Delusion".

"Comparing my unspecified typos to your sub-standard writing skills was hilarious. You write about as well as you debate."

Repug technique #104: Blame opposition with what you are bad at. Listen, don't blame me if Bush can spell and speak better than yourself.

"Don't let the record cold temperatures we're experiencing get you down. I'm sure the globe will begin warming when Summer rolls around. Try not to freeze to death in the meantime."

Hahaha...still not getting it, are we? This isn't about brief, localized weather. Cold snaps don't mean shit. 70 degrees in NYC during dead winter is cause to wonder what the hell is going on. Winter is SUPPOSED to be cold.

Jeff, honestly man... Insults aside, do you have anything to contribute? Rather than wholesale diss, piss and moan...why don't you try to convince me? You spend so much time typing all this crap out and have nothing to back it up. I'm asking for a source of hard scientific data that isn't funded by oil/coal. No shills. No far left or right blogwits who think they are experts. Really...I'm actually hoping between you and Michael that I can read something substantial. He's given me plenty to go through...are you going to step up?

44 i think it would be really funny if, while you lot were arguing, the ocean flooded up to your house and shorted your computers killing you all...

seriously, instead of arguing about the details, we should be doing something about this. wheter or not its going to kill us all, it will still cause turmoil and bad stuff to happen. it has been proven that CO2 levels ARE rising and thats the thing we should focus on. in the words of bart simpson, instead of arguing about the small nagging differences, why not focus on the huge obvious similarities. its all climate change folks, and something has to be done.

45 Luckily, I have enough elevation for now. Let's hope Jeff Buttholz lives in Florida.

46 Earth suffered a mini ice-age at the turn of the 20th century.

lol at that... earth suffers alot... poor earth..

Are you trying to tell me El Nino is causing global warming?

i believe back in 1998 el nino caused everything else.... tornados hurricanes explosions malfunctioning satelittes so on and so forth, why wouldnt it stoop to global warming? there may be no limit to how low el nino will go.



"Co2 levels are not now the highest in recorded history, nor in all of history, as you first claimed."


you know standardized English tests in high school would disagree, considering that a graph showing just that and sourced back to a nationally funded group of climatologists made its way onto a california standards test.

Once again you have failed to back up a single plagiarized claim you
made. You cant prove a falsehood, and you cant disprove a fact, but
that‘s the price you pay for being a moonbat moron.

is anything in this discussion unplagiarized? when two people who are not climatologists discuss stuff like that then they just end up parroting actual climatologists...

47 Hey Jake...I don't think you have to be a climatologist to discuss this topic. I don't claim to be an expert. I do have a lot of faith in the scientific community though. Not the oil shills, but ones who can back up everything with data and a network of peers. I guess where I'm butting heads with anyone in here is over who's data is legit, who funded it, etc. In Michael's case, he is giving me leads to explore. Jeff is just being a rhetorical jackass repeating the wing-nut echo chamber. I'm simply looking for data from a scientist that goes against the consensus that isn't a oil shill. I have yet to find one.

48

Sorry if I have been slow getting back but I DO have to make a living, and today was kinda busy.

Oil SHills? If they have data, you should look at it, and not dismiss them out of hand. Oil everywhere, and on both sides of the arguement, so I'm not sure it is fair to ignore sceptics just because of it. Please consider that. You DID check out Al Gore and Occidental?

Also this takes you to a fairly well thought out arguement. I allow the writer isn't an expert, any more than you or I, but he has done some intersting research in any case. Some of his assumptions are of base, and I'll get you anothr link to where he will say so himself. he gets attacked for his positions, but to the best of my knowledge he hasn't recieved any oil money. His motive? geting it right before wasting time and energy on alarmist policies that may not be needed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/05/nosplit/nwarm05.xml

http://ff.org/centers/csspp/pdf/20070201_monckton.pdf

USA, all the way!

49 Osamasbutthair & Fake:


You leftards can only claim the sky is falling for so long before everybody realizes that it isn't. The anthropogenic global warming disaster hoax has been going on for more than a decade now--and still no sign of a disaster.


Once people inevitably stop listening to this foolishness, the hucksters will go back to claiming global cooling is destroying the planet. Real climate cycles last anywhere from decades to millenia, but these ridiculous doomsday cycles only last as long as the gullible believe them. The hucksters grow rich touting either hoax, of course.


You morons are too stupid and dishonest to do any research, because you don't want to find any conclusions that refute your blind ideology. Like all leftards, you see what you believe, instead of believing what you see--a healthy, vibrant planet.


I, on the other hand, don't need to do any research, because I did it a long time ago. I'm writing from knowledge, while you twits are pasting inanities and easily disproven statistics from far left websites. That's the difference between an education and indoctrination, knowledge and ideology.


I'm still waiting for you flat-Earth tards to prove the sky is falling.

50

To EVERYONE who is following this thread!

When this runs off of the bottom of the page, I will carry on with Osamabingivingustrouble on some newer thread. Now that we have started with this, I intend to provide more material and let's see if he will at least admit there is reasonable room for scepticism on Global Warming Alarmism.

Some things I'd like to clarify. I copy and save a lot of articles on political issues. I have over 6000 files saved to my computer, some of which are small collections of articles I found interesting, and a worthwhile fraction of those are really good global warming debates. However, I am VERY BAD AT ORGANIZING. I have most documents saved in Notepad, or Word, and most of them have titles like "New Text Document (x)" where x = a number between zero and infinity. At least they are all under the same main folder on my desktop.

I realize now that while I could just use the search engines to relocate many of these articles, I'd prefer to pick through the better ones I already have, and I need to organize my stuff anyway, so this provides me with a strong motivation to do that.

SO, I am hoping that you don't lose interest, and that you'll indulge a slower turn around on some of the argueing.

My official position used to be "OMG! Its global warming! Somebody needs to figure this out!" 

NOW my official position is that "Nobody knows for sure WHAT'S happening." 

In other words, yes, climate change happens, and sometimes very rapidly. Yes, mankind, like any other species, does affect the enviroment. All living things DO, each according to their inherent qualities. Yes, we should be conscious of excess pollution, but we should remember that everything in nature is guilty of some form of pollution, Just like living things feed off of the remains of other living things (even plants do this) and this can be mitigated only so much.

We DON'T know for sure what is happening with the climate. We could be at the brink of global cooling, or this warming could go on for awhile. We can be relatively certain, that life on earth will continue, just as it has for hundreds of millions of years, even if some species are replaced by others, and some species die out all together. This has been the way of the world for something like a billion years.

Because of the position I find myself in, I cannot endorse any radical changes in our laws, or our economic processes. It seems "very likely" that any enviromental changes will have far less drastic consequences than we would face if Iran goes nuclear, or Islamists take power in Pakistan. How about that for "climate change"? I think we can handle the climate a lot easier than nuclear war, and global Islamization. I am for new energy sources, but I'm not holding my breath.

OK, so I'll be digging through my documents, and when I get frustrated I will do a cheap and easy google so that this debate can continue. Just keep your eyes open.

If Osamaneedsashortername want's he can e-mail me and we can move to a thread of mutual choice, but I'd like to keep this public for interested readers. I intend to continue in good faith.

I'm still waiting for that 'moderate' 

If I don't get back here in time, I'll see you on the road ...
USA, all the way!

51 Michael: Sounds good to me. I wouldn't mind this being discussed further. Also: Is Jeff always such a loud mouth know-it-all ignoramus?

Jeff: You're a lazy posturing fuck. Case in point:

"I, on the other hand, don't need to do any research, because I did it a long time ago. I'm writing from knowledge".

You don't HAVE any research! You have NOTHING to back up your argument but oil funded propaganda. I challenge you time and time again, but you STILL have nothing to give me to prove your point except your own hot air. As far as believing what I see, you have truly re-adjusted my perception of how ignorant and stubborn a human being can be. Your mind is in a box. I am open to debate. Michael clearly is too. You're just polluting this post like a wing-nut troll. Get a fucking life and let us adults discuss something we find important. Btw, I find it hilarious you call me a "flat-earth tard" when it's people like yourself throughout history who probably claimed the sun revolved around the earth, or the earth was flat, etc. You never fail to use the common repug technique of blaming someone else for your own faults. VERY predictable. Oh, and if you can please tell me:

The hucksters grow rich touting either hoax, of course."

Exactly who and how. If you can't supply names and method, then you'll just be admitting how full of crap you are.

52 Michael...forgot to ask you this while I was pistol whipping Jeff:

Regardless of your stance on global warming (or Jeff's global war mongering) if we could switch to an alternative fuel or fuels under these conditions, would you be in favor?:

If it was...

-Renewable, non-polluting to water or air.
-Stimulated the economy and created new jobs.
-Ended dependancy on foreign oil.

Can you imagine NYC or LA with no smog? I was in Iceland a few years back and they have really tapped into geothermal sources for energy. Although the tap water smelled like sulfur, they way they had things running was genius. I do feel that between ocean currents, rivers, sunlight, wind, geothermal activity and gravity there are massive sources of energy not being taken advantage of. That is minus any brilliant physics breakthroughs that might aid us as well. It makes sense why the oil/coal industry is so resistant, but on a personal level, what do you think about this?

53 Osamasbutthair:


I have refuted every scrap of bullshit you excreted. You have yet to prove a single idiotic claim you've pasted. It is not incumbent upon me to provide further proof of your stupidity. You are the simp who made the risible claims about Global Warming. PROVE THEM.


Claiming guys like me hate science is hilarious. Last time I checked, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Gore, and Hillary Clinton don't care much for science. I've already provided a list of conservative Christian luminaries who do.


Try not to display your juvenile stupidity so flagrantly.


Please tell us who and how billions of grant dollars don't go to "global warming" research. If you can't supply names and method, then you'll just be admitting how full of crap you are.


Even for a kid with fuzz on his peaches, you're unusually stupid. debating you is like debating a laboratory monkey with terminal cretinism. The monkey would be smarter, of course. Try to pull your head out of your ass before it's too late. Shit is for toilets, not for brains.

54 actually im totally annoyed that im being lumped in with bleeding heart left wingers....

did i ever actually say that there was global warming and that it was killing us all? no, i merely tried to get across the point that irregardless of  what the details are, as Micheal says, something IS happening. and we ought to be doing something about it. and we all should own guns and kill criminals. not with our guns, but with the legal system. and with our guns too i suppose. but also legal system. yeah. im not a liberal.

55 /points out BLEEDING HEART left wingers.... they arent all that way, but you seem to want to beleive so.

56 "I have refuted every scrap of bullshit you excreted."

You have not, actually. You have given no names and no sources and no links.

"You have yet to prove a single idiotic claim you've pasted."

It's not me proving it, it's the entire world's legitimate scientific community proving it.

"It is not incumbent upon me to provide further proof of your stupidity."

Yeah, because you have none.

"You are the simp who made the risible claims about Global Warming. PROVE THEM."

Why don't you look in any recent newspaper or scientific journal. No shortage of proof for you there. But, ok. Here's a few links wince you don't know how to use google:

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/stateofknowledge.html

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/

http://www.nrdc.org/globalWarming/default.asp

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html#Q3

Maybe you'll read those and realize how fucking stupid it is to ignore the mountains of evidence they represent. Your turn, bitch-ass. Give me a non oily link.

"Claiming guys like me hate science is hilarious. Last time I checked, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Gore, and Hillary Clinton don't care much for science."

Uh, none of those people are you or me, so what's your point?

"I've already provided a list of conservative Christian luminaries who do."

No you haven't! Btw, isn't that a oxymoron too?

"Try not to display your juvenile stupidity so flagrantly."

Oh yeah, you're the epitome of maturity and knowledge.

"Please tell us who and how billions of grant dollars don't go to "global warming" research."

Billions, eh? Can you back up those numbers? Who was paid and by whom? I don't see most scientists living large, Jeff.

"If you can't supply names and method, then you'll just be admitting how full of crap you are."

Ok. This one covers enough legitimate names:
http://www.ipcc.ch/ You have nothing even CLOSE to that. Not even remotely. All you have is your Christian hypocrites and oil shills.

"Even for a kid with fuzz on his peaches, you're unusually stupid."

Repug technique employed again. Blame me for what you're insecure about. It's ok, I can take it.

"debating you is like debating a laboratory monkey with terminal cretinism."

Hey, at least I don't live a alternative reality like yourself where you're right and the whole world is wrong. It must get lonely in there with just you and the Bush administration. Oh, wait...even they are willing to admit more about this than you.

"The monkey would be smarter, of course."

I take it you are referring to yourself.

"Try to pull your head out of your ass before it's too late. Shit is for toilets, not for brains."

Yeah and toilets are where your ideas start. Give up Jeff. It's wayyyyyyyyyy too easy to pick you apart and make you look as stupid as you are. It's almost fun sometimes, but mostly it's just boring. I'd like a challenge. Michael challenges me, but interacting like you is like shooting crayfish in a bucket. Crawl back up your mom's ass where you belong.

Michael: I'm outta here for the weekend. I'll check back on this post to see if you've started another thread. I look forward to it. Have a good Saturday/Sunday.

Jeff: I fully expect you to be a little bitch and take shots at me over the weekend while I'm gone like a little coward. I look forward to making you look like even more of a fool when I get back.

57 Aww geez!  Well I'm sorry I took so long to type this. I hope someone sees it.                             USA, all the way!
                
                    
                     
                         
                                
 

 

And Christian Conservative Luminaries is in no way an oxymoronic association.

58 "Secondly, I prefer the free market development of such technologies
because if they are really better, they will prove it by winning on
their own merits. people wqill want them because they feel like its an
improvement. The Government should only reward the new techn ologies by
awarding contracts to competeing designs that are superior, but not by
enforcement. Socialism is armed robbery by the state, with hobbles to
match. Don't need it!"

but then again i dunno, it doesn't seem very likely that major energy companies are just going to up and change their policies until its too late and we end up with a crisis. I'm all for free market, but this is something that we have known for sometime to be a potential upcoming problem, and oil companies have largely procrastinated actually doing anything about it. if they need a little kick in the ass to get them to actually make some changes, then i'm all for it. oil has been known to be running out for quite some time, and we all saw the effects in the 70's oil crisis, so there should have been an initiative working on it this entire time, not just right now, when gas prices are pushing 2.50 on average. note that i've actually kinda stopped talking about global warming and am now talking about oil supply. so yeah. it's only socialism when the companies squirm and squel about losing their precious money, even if it goes to something that will sustain their livelihood in the future. thats who the real enemies of the people are. the corporations that collect their money and give it to the rich. death to the rich! burn their bodies upon the stakes! yeah. not quite that drastic, but they definitely need to be paying MORE taxes, instead of less.actually how about this, what if we were to enact a law that stated that unless a person who makes $50m a year or more spends at least a third of their income each year, the government can claim a third of their income, above and beyond whatever income taxes they already pay. that may seem ridiculous and capitalism defeating to you, but i still pose the question, who the fuck NEEDS $50m a year anyway? and it galls me to see those millionaires putting their money away into their banks and never having it change hands until the millionaires die and it goes to whomever gets on their wills, TAX FREE. yeah thats all that pisses me off. the rich are screwing over america and the government is helping them do it.

/rant

lol

59

Jake., I don't know that anything HAS to be done. That is my primary objection to wasting a lot of time, energy, and national prosperity doing SOMETHING. Why do anything if we don't know it wil work, or if there is even a threat?

Suppose your sitting near your campfire, some night out camping. If your clothes suddenly caught on fire, maybe you could put the flames out if you just ran fast enough to crete a strong breeze. Or maybe you could run until you find a stream to jump into. Or maybe you could pour the stuff from that can on yourself to douse the fire. Or maybe you could run to the next campsite screaming for a fire extinguisher. Or maybe you could run, but focus on generating enough sweat to douse the flames.

So if you don't run off a cliff, or pour gasoline on yourself, or cook yourself for the local scavengers, or drown, or light the forest on fire as your dying act, you might, maybe try rolling on the ground.

But suppose that you don't really even know if your on fire. If you've never seen fire, or heard of it before, you may not have even the simplest idea of what to do if you catch on fire. Suppose instead you have poison ivy, or you've been bitten by a mosquito. Maybe you just got sprayed by a skunk. if you have no clue whats going on, you can't possibly make an informed choice about how to deal with the situation. "OMG I'm on fire!" But are you really?

Maybe it's a good thing. Maybe you got sprayed with some sunblock, or bug repellent. If you panic, your an idiot.

I'm worried someone is selling us 'Doctor Pinecones Elixir' good for curing most any camping malady, real or imagined, guarrenteed to work unless it is actually needed. Results may vary.

I'm worried someone wants us to buy something we don't need. And it will cost us more than we can afford.

USA, all the way!

60 Remember that rant. Save it, and after the weekend we can talk about your views on big Business, and the oil companies. Meanwhile ...        USA, all the way!

61 yeah if you move off to some other thread feel please let me know.

i dunno, i keep putting my email in this here email thing but i don't see it anywhere else....


thejakeman16@gmail.com

62 ooh need to read thses posts i make...

"thread feel please let me know"

should read either "please feel free to let me know" or the more forceful sounding, "please let me know.... or else."

63 Jake, don't let that bother you. I'm at least partly dyslexic, and even a sentence like this is kind of hard to type correctly when I'm a little tired. other folks aren't used to typing fast without a spell or grammer checker, so they make mistakes. What is sick, and sad is when they jump all over some one elses spelling errors like they never make any.        We'll talk again.        USA, all the way!

64 Jakeass:


If something is happening, why cant anybody prove it? Why should we fear something which is apparently immeasurable and inevitable?


Because you say so? Because the ever reliable U.N. says so?

65 Osamasbutthair:


Checked out your links. They didn't prove global warming exists, much less an anthropogenic cause. No surprises there.


You still haven't made your point. Conservative Christians like Galileo, Shakespeare, Bach, Newton, Darwin, Washington, Jefferson, Mellville, Lincoln, conrad, Bell,  et al have--in spades. So have I.


If anthropogenic global warming were real, you would have no problem citing evidence. You cant, you haven't, and you wont.


You're all wet, little man.

66 "If something is happening, why cant anybody prove it? Why should we
fear something which is apparently immeasurable and inevitable?


Because you say so? Because the ever reliable U.N. says so?"

guh hyuk, woow th u.n. sure was right about them WMD's that saddam had!

and yes BECAUSE I SAY SO.

67 Officially moved on to new 'climate' threads. Specifically "The Cooling Earth"                 USA, all the way!

68 Jakeass:


You mean the 800 tons of yellowcake uranium found in Iraq? The nuclear weapons program complete with centrifuge found? The tens of thousands of tons of conventional weaponry? (Which are WMD, by the way.) Are those the WMD you're blathering about.


So much for your say so.

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