November 21, 2006
Minneapolis Airport Incident May Be a Setup
The incident I wrote about last night, in which six Muslim imams were removed from a plane at Minneapolis/St. Paul International Airport, is looking more and more like a deliberate provocation. From the Associated Press [emphasis added]:
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"They took us off the plane, humiliated us in a very disrespectful way," said Omar Shahin, of Phoenix.This sounds very much like the deliberate provocation mentioned in my previous post, when Muslims admitted to trying to cause anxiety among fellow passengers as a form of "civil disobedience."The six Muslim scholars were returning from a conference in Minneapolis of the North American Imams Federation, said Shahin, president of the group. Five of them were from the Phoenix-Tempe area, while one was from Bakersfield, Calif., he said.
Three of them stood and said their normal evening prayers together on the plane, as 1.7 billion Muslims around the world do every day, Shahin said. He attributed any concerns by passengers or crew to ignorance about Islam.
"I never felt bad in my life like that," he said. "I never. Six imams. Six leaders in this country. Six scholars in handcuffs. It's terrible."
Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, expressed anger at the detentions.
"CAIR will be filing a complaint with relevant authorities in the morning over the treatment of the imams to determine whether the incident was caused by anti-Muslim hysteria by the passengers and/or the airline crew," Hooper said. "Because, unfortunately, this is a growing problem of singling out Muslims or people perceived to be Muslims at airports, and it's one that we've been addressing for some time."
UPDATE by Rusty: A friend of Lilek's was at the conference hotel. Much anti-American sentiment. And Charles Johnson links the spokeman for the imams to a terrorist fundraising organization masquerading as a charity.
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Im tired of Muslims always demanding respect for their beliefs. How about Muslims learning to respect the beliefs of others who don't want to watch them roll out prayer rugs on an airplane?
Posted by: BelchSpeak at November 21, 2006 10:22 AM (rXmHB)
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First there is the incident at the UCLA library and now an incident on an airplane. Is there more than just a correlation to the two acts of civil disobedience this week? Could this be a concerted effort by the terrorists to activate their sleeper cells in an effort to reduce security at libraries and airports? Both libraries and airports, in general, were key places for terrorist activities that led up to 9/11.
Posted by: Peter S at November 21, 2006 10:49 AM (mJpNo)
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2006 11:09 AM (8e/V4)
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It is religious provocation, nothing more. Like people who pray at restaurants, or pray for an end to abortion in front of clinics.
What scared people is the association of terrorist acts (especially on airplanes) with extreme Muslim piety. This is what the Muslim community needs to address, but won't.
What scared people is the association of terrorist acts (especially on airplanes) with extreme Muslim piety. This is what the Muslim community needs to address, but won't.
Posted by: garrett at November 21, 2006 11:17 AM (6Hyks)
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It is religious provocation, nothing more. Like people who pray at restaurants, or pray for an end to abortion in front of clinics.
Posted by: garrett at November 21, 2006 11:17 AM
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Whatever happened to freedom of religion? I do agree however, considering that climate that exists choosing to demonstrate this while flying is foolish.
On the other hand, if I'm at Denny's and someone wants to say grace, let them.
Pray at abortion clinics. As long as they have a permit.
Posted by: garrett at November 21, 2006 11:17 AM
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Whatever happened to freedom of religion? I do agree however, considering that climate that exists choosing to demonstrate this while flying is foolish.
On the other hand, if I'm at Denny's and someone wants to say grace, let them.
Pray at abortion clinics. As long as they have a permit.
Posted by: No Fear at November 21, 2006 12:03 PM (ZQepB)
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Holy shit! The article says that there are 1.7 billion Muslims now. They're either freaking great breeders or the AP is complicit in their taquiya. I've heard rough estimates from 900 million to 1.2 billion. Some Muslims like to pull 1.5 billion out of their ass, but 1.7 billion!? At this rate, there'll be more Muslims than the population of the entire planet! It's kind of like the homosexual lobby, which chants "homosexuals are 10%" of the population (when reality is closer to 1% according to every study out there) in order to push the normalcy of their cause. It reminds me of cats (or pick your animal of choice) raising its fur to make it appear bigger and thus more threatening. Same thing with Muslim propagandist lies about Islam being the fastest growing religion and ever growing "population creep" numbers.
Posted by: Ansar Al-kuffir at November 21, 2006 12:06 PM (KjO46)
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2006 12:43 PM (8e/V4)
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It appears to have been a setup. I lived in the Middle East for 7 years and in all my flights on Saudia, Gulf Air, and other airlines not once did anyone stand up for prayer. Kids running loose, using cell phones in flight, etc. were common, but not standing for prayer. I hope US Airways doesn't cave in.
Posted by: Lee at November 21, 2006 12:59 PM (Ogh6Q)
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This is just a wild guess but I am thinking that a group of suicide bombers might not be inclined to attract attention before their mission by standing together in the boarding area and praying together. I think that might jeopardize their operational security.
The flight takeoff was delayed over 3 hours, probably quite a few missed connections.
The flight takeoff was delayed over 3 hours, probably quite a few missed connections.
Posted by: John Ryan at November 21, 2006 01:42 PM (TcoRJ)
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Yeah, I'd be pretty fucking scared if a Christian started loudly praying on my flight. I'd fucking want some air marshal to give him the beat down.
Like it or not, religion is usually why individuals kill large groups of people. Hell, you might have Richard Dawkins on that flight & some nut job fundamentalist descided its worth killing the lot of us to take him out. You saw Jesus Camp right? What do you think they are training these kids for?
Religion is fine for safe situations. But Religion always aludes to extremist behavior. So any religious references are unacceptable in an unsafe situation.
Like it or not, religion is usually why individuals kill large groups of people. Hell, you might have Richard Dawkins on that flight & some nut job fundamentalist descided its worth killing the lot of us to take him out. You saw Jesus Camp right? What do you think they are training these kids for?
Religion is fine for safe situations. But Religion always aludes to extremist behavior. So any religious references are unacceptable in an unsafe situation.
Posted by: Mr. C at November 21, 2006 02:25 PM (cYBtu)
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Says John "Terrorist Hunter Extraordinaire' Ryan:
One military official, who asked not be named because he is not permitted to speak to reporters, said the bomber shouted "Allahu Akbar," God is Great, before detonating the bomb.
Witnesses claim that one of the bombers chanted "Allahu Akbar" (God is great) before detonating himself.
"They are not tactics previously used by the Chechens," said Russia's prosecutor-general, Vladimir Ustinov, last month after a Chechen woman shrieked "Allahu Akbar" (God is great) before detonating herself under a bus and killing 17 Russian military personnel bound for Chechnya.
Yeah, let's not worry about anyone Islamic chanting on a Plane, please John don't work for the CIA.
One military official, who asked not be named because he is not permitted to speak to reporters, said the bomber shouted "Allahu Akbar," God is Great, before detonating the bomb.
Witnesses claim that one of the bombers chanted "Allahu Akbar" (God is great) before detonating himself.
"They are not tactics previously used by the Chechens," said Russia's prosecutor-general, Vladimir Ustinov, last month after a Chechen woman shrieked "Allahu Akbar" (God is great) before detonating herself under a bus and killing 17 Russian military personnel bound for Chechnya.
Yeah, let's not worry about anyone Islamic chanting on a Plane, please John don't work for the CIA.
Posted by: davec at November 21, 2006 02:31 PM (QkWqQ)
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If your praying in front of an abortion clinic, no you probably should not just be arrested outright, but the cops ought to question you & search you for weapons. As long as you don't have any weapons & aren't causing a *physical* disturbance they probably ought to let you continue your protest.
An airplane is a much more dangerous place than an abortion clinic & weapons aren't as critical to the danger. Anyone who loudly prays on an airplane ought to be taken off, questioned, and rebooked on another flight. I don't care if they are Muslim, Christian, Aztec, or even Buddhist.
An airplane is a much more dangerous place than an abortion clinic & weapons aren't as critical to the danger. Anyone who loudly prays on an airplane ought to be taken off, questioned, and rebooked on another flight. I don't care if they are Muslim, Christian, Aztec, or even Buddhist.
Posted by: Mr. C at November 21, 2006 02:45 PM (cYBtu)
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You don't have freedom of religion on the deck of someone else's plane. If they don't like you praying on their plane, they are within their rights to throw you off, whether you be Muslim, Christian, or Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Posted by: Michael Hampton at November 21, 2006 03:32 PM (FVbj6)
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But Religion always aludes to extremist behavior.
What a load of crap. Some of the most extreme people, past and present, haven't been religious at all, but were atheists. In fact, more people have died BY FAR at the hands of atheists.
What a load of crap. Some of the most extreme people, past and present, haven't been religious at all, but were atheists. In fact, more people have died BY FAR at the hands of atheists.
Posted by: Jesusland Carlos at November 21, 2006 05:39 PM (8e/V4)
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I guess the difference is a Christian terrorist would be going against the teachings of the Christian religion, a Muslim would be fulfilling it.
Posted by: davec at November 21, 2006 06:58 PM (QkWqQ)
Posted by: Heroic Dreamer at November 21, 2006 11:01 PM (fbyrb)
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Joe I am not sure exactly what you mean by THE teachings of the Christian religion. There seems to be quite a range of what is acceptable behavior. Quite frankly the only thing they seem to be putting an effort into nowadays is in regulating the sexual behavior.
If you could give me a quote from Jesus on when it is acceptable to kill I would like to hear it.
Also Dave I think that this is going to turn out to be a case where people over reacted. That has happened before. It took us 40 years before we were ready to apologize for interning the Japanese who were American citizens in WWII. Sometimes in these situations common sense has to be used, I don't think it was in this case.
Also Davec please don't work for the CIA. If you did you would probably "cook the books" to show something that was never there, like the WMD. Doing things like that would hurt the security of these United States, not improve it
If you could give me a quote from Jesus on when it is acceptable to kill I would like to hear it.
Also Dave I think that this is going to turn out to be a case where people over reacted. That has happened before. It took us 40 years before we were ready to apologize for interning the Japanese who were American citizens in WWII. Sometimes in these situations common sense has to be used, I don't think it was in this case.
Also Davec please don't work for the CIA. If you did you would probably "cook the books" to show something that was never there, like the WMD. Doing things like that would hurt the security of these United States, not improve it
Posted by: John Ryan at November 22, 2006 10:24 AM (TcoRJ)
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With yesterday’s news story in mind, I wanted to give you a few facts we’ve found in our studies. A lot of opinion is floating around, so here are some facts. While Americans were more likely to favor stricter security measures directly after 9/11, there is still some concern today. Half of Americans say there is no excuse for the racial profiling of African Americans, but two-thirds say greater scrutiny of Middle Eastern people is "understandable." Check out more information on this topic at http://www.publicagenda.org/issues/red_flags.cfm?issue_type=race#profiling.
Posted by: William at November 22, 2006 11:15 AM (BCjl6)
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John Ryan:
wtf are you talking about?
You're constantly ignoring the Elephant in the room, when you're not doing that -- you're making nonsensical links like being detained at an airport vs. internment camps.
I also find it ironic that you Liberals are constantly invoking Jesus, and murder/killing and totally ignore the parts about Gods wrath, where he promises to destroy people and countries, does he fit the picture of Jesus as a hippy spreading love, you people like to paint?
I find it ironic that a person that thinks the domestic murder rate is more a threat than international Islamic terrorism, despite it being in almost every country would tell me about 'cooking intelligence' to be rich.
wtf are you talking about?
You're constantly ignoring the Elephant in the room, when you're not doing that -- you're making nonsensical links like being detained at an airport vs. internment camps.
I also find it ironic that you Liberals are constantly invoking Jesus, and murder/killing and totally ignore the parts about Gods wrath, where he promises to destroy people and countries, does he fit the picture of Jesus as a hippy spreading love, you people like to paint?
I find it ironic that a person that thinks the domestic murder rate is more a threat than international Islamic terrorism, despite it being in almost every country would tell me about 'cooking intelligence' to be rich.
Posted by: davec at November 22, 2006 11:47 AM (QkWqQ)
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It was funny on the Lebanese assassination thread you wrote:
Just when the conditions in Lebanon really seemed to be improving , that nation again fell apart.
Ignoring the Elephant again John? The fact that the Lebanese Government allowed Hezbollah to amass rockets and missiles, and militarize their border despite being told to remove them by the U.N and secure their own border, ignores that and then does nothing while the same cross the border, and commit an act of war, against another nation and kidnap their soldiers seem "improved" to you John, really? I guess the fact that the Government cannot control Hezbollah, and allows it's people to suffer bombardments and destruction because of it, is lost on you?
As I said before, did you see pictures of coffeeshops, and children flying kites and think everything was OK?
Just when the conditions in Lebanon really seemed to be improving , that nation again fell apart.
Ignoring the Elephant again John? The fact that the Lebanese Government allowed Hezbollah to amass rockets and missiles, and militarize their border despite being told to remove them by the U.N and secure their own border, ignores that and then does nothing while the same cross the border, and commit an act of war, against another nation and kidnap their soldiers seem "improved" to you John, really? I guess the fact that the Government cannot control Hezbollah, and allows it's people to suffer bombardments and destruction because of it, is lost on you?
As I said before, did you see pictures of coffeeshops, and children flying kites and think everything was OK?
Posted by: davec at November 22, 2006 11:56 AM (QkWqQ)
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"you might have Richard Dawkins on that flight & some nut job fundamentalist descided its worth killing the lot of us to take him out."
Bad example. Richard Dawkins advocates outlawing religion.
Bad example. Richard Dawkins advocates outlawing religion.
Posted by: pst314 at November 22, 2006 12:04 PM (lCxSZ)
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Hitler was quite clearly chrisitian, even the pope gave him partial authority over apointments of bisops within Germany. Never really sure why people claim he wasn't christian. Heck, I've even seen people claimed he worshiped Norse pagan gods. But the only really consistant story is that he remained quite officially tieed to the catholic church.
Stalin's religious isn't known but his actions are clearly those of a leader who wished to bring religion under his control not eliminate it, i.e. Stalin is closest to Constantine I and Henry VIII.
Mao was very likely atheist, Chinese leaders have tended to actually believe whatever they are preaching. Funny story, most deaths caused by Mao were simply due to the arrogance & stupidity of the Great Leap Forward, and not the normal sort of killings. So Mao should be remembered mostly for stupidity.
But all such things are moot point for two reasons:
First, communism itself was a belief featuring many features of religion. I'd be pretty worried if another person on my flight stood up and started yelling about oppression by capitalism too.
Second, we're talking about extremist behavior, not state sanctioned mass murder. As I said before, Religion always aludes to extremist behavior. Doesn't mean all religious people are extremists, but the allusion is there. So it doesn't belong on an airplane.
Stalin's religious isn't known but his actions are clearly those of a leader who wished to bring religion under his control not eliminate it, i.e. Stalin is closest to Constantine I and Henry VIII.
Mao was very likely atheist, Chinese leaders have tended to actually believe whatever they are preaching. Funny story, most deaths caused by Mao were simply due to the arrogance & stupidity of the Great Leap Forward, and not the normal sort of killings. So Mao should be remembered mostly for stupidity.
But all such things are moot point for two reasons:
First, communism itself was a belief featuring many features of religion. I'd be pretty worried if another person on my flight stood up and started yelling about oppression by capitalism too.
Second, we're talking about extremist behavior, not state sanctioned mass murder. As I said before, Religion always aludes to extremist behavior. Doesn't mean all religious people are extremists, but the allusion is there. So it doesn't belong on an airplane.
Posted by: Mr. C at November 22, 2006 02:39 PM (cYBtu)
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I also saw something about calling for Muslims to boycott USAir. That leads me to two thoughts.
1) Make a point of flying USAir whenever possible -- and tell them it is because they take the terrorist threat seriously.
2) I'd love to see (but won't, because it is clearly illegal) USAir announce that in response it is going to boycott all Muslims -- passengers, employees, vendors, contractors, etc.
1) Make a point of flying USAir whenever possible -- and tell them it is because they take the terrorist threat seriously.
2) I'd love to see (but won't, because it is clearly illegal) USAir announce that in response it is going to boycott all Muslims -- passengers, employees, vendors, contractors, etc.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at November 22, 2006 06:44 PM (tdsAK)
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John Ryan: I believe those that give comfort and aid to the enemy are as bad as the enemy. You and puddleduck fall in that category. You may not believe it. Many people are devoid of common sense. Common sense is not measued and that is sad. Academia will not get you anywhere without it. Common sense will allow one to figure the other guys reaction. Friend or foe. What you, Greg and puddleduck do is give hope to the enemy. They read this blog. When they do, some idiot with a rag on his head knowingly strokes his beard and says we have friends in America (fools or not). We will win. Therefore: You and yours are my enemy. Meaning to or not has nothing to do with it. I don't hate a rabid dog but he is a threat to me and mine and I will blow his head off.
Posted by: Greyrooster at November 22, 2006 08:47 PM (6DfNG)
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