1 If they choose to desert, let them go. Who wants them anyway. Our men in uniform couldn't trust them. However, they should never, never be allowed on American soil again. Let them stay in Canada. Canada deserves them.

2 I'd be pretty surprised to see the Canadian government take them in on refugee status. These soldiers broke their contractual obligations with the military and should face punishment. Canada would be loathe to be seen giving refugee status to people that are going to be prosecuted for their own actions, not because they are a special minority group, or anything similar.

By the way greyrooster, you do realize that Canada has troops fighting in Afghanistan, don't you?

3 Ya well, some people put a penny in the collection plate to. I guess they figure that will pay their share of the bills.

4 Sometimes a penny is all people can afford.

It's pretty well-known that Canada has a very small military. Sending a couple of thousand troops to Afghanistan (I think that's what it was at its peak) actually stretches Canada's military pretty tight. And those soldiers did very, VERY well while they were there. So well, in fact, that the US military tried to award some of those soldiers medals.

5 Yea, Yea, been there, done that. Liberals in our government always try to award someone if they feel it's politically expedient. Earning has nothing to do with it. Those snow monkeys aren't any more deserving of medals than our boys. Probably not as much. They don't wish to be on our team 100%, fine. Let us remember. All they're doing is catering to the multitude of ragheads they let into Canada. The last 5 years I've been a lot of time in Canada. I know what the real Canadians say and think. Go up to Missasauga and have a pint and maybe you'll come back with a different view. Try a bar in the West Edmonton mall and talk to the locals. See what they think.
Once again, if you don't experience it you know nothing about it. Some things are not said in the papers or on the internet. The most important things. What the ordinary people believe.

6 Yes, our Canadian brethren sent soldiers to Afghanistan. All Americans should be grateful that they did join in the war on terror, albeit a small contribution. Now, if the Canadian government would be so kind, would they mind sending back the yellow-bellied cowards so that they can spend some time in Leavenworth, or perhaps even a nice firing squad. The left hails these deserters as some sort of statesmen, keeping their conscience clear against an evil and unjust war. Let me see, if I look at the fine print when people sign up for the military, it doesn't say anything about "If you join the armed services, and you are sent to a war you don't agree with, you are released from your commitment...." Nope. Not there. You can refuse an unlawful order, such as shooting an innocent civilian or raping/pillaging. Unfortunately, the average soldier doesn't get to decide that an entire war is "Unlawful". The names of these people, along with their pictures, should be plastered all over the place so that they can hang their heads in shame while their brave brethren go off to war to fight for the freedoms that these shameful deserters won't defend.

7 I hadn't even realized anyone was deserting and Canada should send them back immediately. From friends I know in Canada, the new govt said no to any troops in Iraq and I know the Canadians were very upset by this. I honestly don't know if Canada actually sent any troops at all, so that's news to me.

Venom: could you not post after every single post someone makes? It sure would be appreciated - I think once is enough.

Cindy

8 Holy smokes, you're ignorant greyrooster.

First, it was the US military that wanted to award the medals, not some "liberal" politician. Medals to snipers, one of whom still has the longest recorded kill. Don't believe me? Why don't you read this article from Soldier of Fortune?

http://www.stormpages.com/swellal/sof.html

Or how about this one detailing the record kill:
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/50calibre/50sniping.htm

"Earning has nothing to do with it." Fuck, you're dense. And incredibly disrespectful. Those soldiers deserved those medals, unless you think saving American lives isn't deserving. Of course, you won't check out either link because that would be admitting you're wrong. Canadian soldiers performed quite admirably. And they're still there. And if you actually KNEW something about the GWOT instead of shit you make up, you'd realize that this contribution by Canada is pretty significant, given the size of the Canadian military.

Is the Canadian government more liberal than the US government? Of course. But that doesn't reflect on the work Canadian troops put in.

9 Your history of building up anything non American is sickening. As I said long ago, you are as much the enemy as any terrorist.
If you don't think the military is political you are the dense dumb shit. If fact, you probably never served.
I don't read soldier of fortune magazine. Most normal people don't. Of course, you've already shown yourself to be not normal.
The military gave medals to Kerry too. Of course, they later rescended them due to his traitorist mouth. The liberal, peanut farmer Carter allowed him to get them back.
I hold that no one is more deserving than American soldiers.
Your excuses for Canada or (any place other than America) doesn't hold water. Were they half assed in their support in WW2 and Vietnam?
They are ruining their country by allowing unchecked immigration to their country. Then allowing the immigrants to go on the dole and cry about their situation.
The worst part is many of these immigrants end up here.
Canada is becomming nothing but a stepping stone to American. Half the Canadian raghead immigrants end up in Detroit, again on the dole.
Who quit in the middle of the struggle? Canada did. Who deserves the accolades and Medals? Those holding the course. Those that don't waver.Those that don't quit in the middle.
Maybe they should make french their national language. They are on the road to being more french and English.
Canada allowed cowards to hide in their country during the Viet Nam war.
Canada needs to understand that this is not the sixties. America has been attacked at home. Canada harboring deserters should result in action. I say close the border until the deserters are returned in handcuffs.
Have you ever left your apartment?
Does your mommy ever let you out to see the real world?

10 Man, you are so delusional. I think it's you that doesn't get out enough. Like I figured, you wouldn't check out either link. You liken admitting you're wrong to admitting defeat. It's called learning, and you're so thick-skulled you don't want to peek outside of that self-built cocoon of bullshit you hide in.

Excuse me, and so the fuck what if I see the positives in other countries, as well as America? Canada has its problems and it has its positives. You, on the other hand, find only fault in other countries and no fault in the US. You believe it's unpatriotic to find fault with the US, let alone state it publicly (or, at least, that's the message you're sending in your posts). And, please, enough with the "experience" bullshit, too. Your experience has hardly enlightened you to anything, not based on what you type here. By your rationale, I could stand in the Sistine Chapel, and because I've "experienced" it, I should be an expert on 16th century art.

You don't read soldier of fortune? Well, good for you. Way to back out of a debate. Unfortunately for you, the Soldier of Fortune article has been cited in a number of conservative blogs about the great work the Canadian military (and, specifically, those snipers) has done. I guess you read the other article, huh? Oh, wait, don't answer. I already know you'd much rather hide than read. And we're not talking about who's "more deserving" than others. We're talking about whether the medals are earned. And those Canuck soldiers earned them. You keep thinking I'm trying to tear down America. Please show me in this thread here where I once criticized America. The crux of my argument was to show the good work the Canadian military was doing. You see it (for whatever insane reason) as some kind of attack on America. How do you draw up these conclusions????

"They are ruining their country by allowing unchecked immigration to their country."

More bullshit from you with nothing to back it up. In fact, the procedures to get into Canada are much more stringent since 9/11 (which, incidentally, was perpetrated by people coming through the US immigration system). Unchecked immigration...to you, I'd bet ANY kind of immigration is unchecked.

"Who quit in the middle of the struggle? Canada did."

Nope. How is this possible with troops still stationed in Afghanistan? Doesn't sound like quitting to me. Frankly, Canada couldn't afford to send troops to Iraq, even if it wanted to. And, since you made that comment about only contributing pennies, you wouldn't have been satisfied no matter what Canada contributed, no matter how token it would have been.

"Canada allowed cowards to hide in their country during the Viet Nam war.
Canada needs to understand that this is not the sixties. America has been attacked at home."

That's true, Canada did. So, if this isn't the sixties, why are you trying to relate it to now? Policies of 40 years aren't exactly the same ones being used now. I haven't heard of one American who's been granted asylum in Canada based on the Iraq war. And, in the off chance that it's actually happened, it's not occurred to anywhere near the extent it did 40 years ago. Assuming it's even happened at all.

"Canada harboring deserters should result in action."

I said this from the beginning.

11 Their all traitors and deserters they can go live in canada if they want to and phooie on them they are no better then the lowlifes who did it during vietnam and that includes bill clinton

12 VENOM AND GREYROOSTER: TAKE IT OUTSIDE!!!!

When you read a post - one comment along is enough and I mean ENOUGH ALREADY! YOU TWO WANT TO DUKE IT OUT, DO IT ON YOUR OWN TIME AND THROUGH EMAIL IF NECESSARY, NOT HERE. AND THERE IS NO NEED OF SWEARING EITHER. So guys, growup.

This posts talks about deserters going to Canada. I didn't know of anyone deserting and going to Canada so it's news to me. New news. I don't think it's right - especially if you are already in the military; the article doesn't say, so I'm just assuming it's military personnel. And for them to leave their units and go to Canada is wrong and now that they've done it, they should stay there because if they can't stand up for their own country, then they have no right to live in it. It's that simple.

I'm glad you listed the names; that was a good idea. Hopefully if they ever try to return and get a job, someone will recognize their names and fire them immediately. If these names are military men, I hope they get court-martialed when and if they come back to the US. WE do not need people that unreliable in our country or our workforce; they have no right to it by leaving it when they were needed most. Canada can either said them back and be jailed or they can keep them with the word these men will never return to the United States. It's not our loss; it's theirs.

Cindy

13 Uh, I don't have a dog in this fight, Cindy, but I would like to point out that what those two are doing is commonly known as "dialogue." Your admonition about ONE POST! is senseless, since you yourself have 2 or 3 in this one thread. Discussion entails more than a serial sequence of monologues where each "participant" gets his say with no other opportunity for input. From my impartial view, while these two guys cussed a bit, it wasn't as bad as Rusty gets at times, and they still presented their views somewhat rationally. All-in-all this is an entertaining and informative thread. Let the guys (and girls, perhaps) have their say.

14 skh

you haven't had to put up with them on all the subjects, most in archives now where there are like 86 reponses back and forth. It is not dialogue - it's arguments back and forth. So yes, they should indeed take it outside. People are getting tired of it and at least, I'm opening my mouth and have the courage to say so. You haven't been here, so you have no idea. One comment per post is enough - these guys never end, so let them do it by email to each other and not here. If you've been a reader here from the very beginning, you'd know exactly why I said what I said. I've been part of this site for almost a year now, so unless you want that particular post to have them go back and forth 100 times, you'd say what I did say. One comment is enough; these guys go over the line.

Cindy

15 I've had a few back-and-forths here myself. While I haven't been here from the beginning, I've been around a while. It's exactly those "you must be out of your fucking mind!" threads that are the most enjoyable to read. Seriously. If a blog was so dry that it only provoked a couple of comments per post then the number of visitors would likely plummet. I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything, but Venom and greyrooster are both responding to each other with more than simple insults and profanity...they are both presenting more information as the thread develops. I don't believe that they are to the point where they are about to resort to digital kung-fu ("Where do you live? I'll come over to your house and beat your ass like a $2 drum.") and, like I said, it IS entertaining to read their responses. And, neither one of them is a troll who makes a one line insulting comment and disappears. If visitors were limited to one comment per post, you and I couldn't be having this conversation...and I wouldn't be able to say that it's good to meet you!

16 First of all Crowing Grey Rooster Its not early morning adnd we dont need you to wake us up. If your going to try and open our eyes then do so with knowledge, French is also our national language we share our nationality and our contry as peaceful law abiding proud citizens. Not justifying murdering of women and children in Iraq, I think some new young rooster needs to take your post and spread seeds of understanding to feed the rest of the flock. As yours seem to be stale but then again when your a greying rooster I must consider the mind get feeble with age.
Foreverfree Proud Canadian.

17 First of all Crowing Grey Rooster Its not early morning and we dont need you to wake us up. If your going to try and open our eyes then do so with knowledge, French is also our national language we share our nationality and our country as peaceful law abiding proud citizens. Not justifying murdering of women and children in Iraq, I think some new young rooster needs to take your post and spread seeds of understanding to feed the rest of the flock. As yours seem to be stale but then again when your a greying rooster I must consider the mind gets feeble with age.
Foreverfree Proud Canadian.

18 Proud of what? Your inability to make a post correctly?
There is a young greyrooster. He is in Iraq fighting with the men not hugging the cowardly French.

19 FIRSTBROKENANGEL: If you wish to be a moderator. Start your own blog!
Tell everyone to be nice. No cussing. Lots of hugging. See how many comments are made.

20 i have a penis in my bum

21 the usa hands out medals like candy,but these guys deserve your repect.

A world-record killing shot by a Canadian sniper detachment in Afghanistan could never have been made with the ammunition they were issued when they left Edmonton last winter, the triggerman said in a recent interview. The Canadian .50-calibre rounds have a maximum range of between 2,200 and 2,300 metres.

But the U.S. rounds, they discovered, "fly farther, faster," said Cpl. "Bill", a 26-year-old native of Fogo Island, Nfld.

The two-man Canadian team, coupled with American Sgt. Zevon Durham of Greenville, S.C., made the kill from 2,430 metres, or nearly 2 1/2 kilometres, on the second shot.

This feat is the equivalent of standing at the foot of Yonge St. and hitting a target in the intersection of Yonge and Wellesley Sts., just north of College St.

The first shot blew a bag from the hand of their target, an Al Qaeda fighter walking on a road.

"He didn't even flinch," said Bill, who spoke on condition that his real name not be used.

"We made a correction and the next round hit exactly where we wanted it to. Well, a bit to the right."

The kill, one of more than 20 unofficially accredited to Canadian snipers during Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan's Shah-i-Kot Valley, beat the 35-year-old record of 2,500 yards, or 2,250 metres, set by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock in Duc Pho, South Vietnam.

Soldier of Fortune magazine estimated the number of kills made by the Canadians after talking to several U.S. soldiers in Kandahar for a cover story in its August edition.

The snipers themselves will not confirm the figure.

But judging from accounts given by Canadians involved in the first major coalition offensive of the Afghan war, the figure of at least 20 sounds conservative.

The 800-strong 3rd battalion of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry is pulling out this month.

They'll first go through a reintegration process on the Pacific island of Guam before heading home to Edmonton.

About 100 British Royal Marines, too, wrapped up their last combat mission in Afghanistan yesterday after four months in Afghanistan.

The five Canadian snipers, outfitted with British desert fatigues and an array of equipment from all over the world, were divided into two detachments that earned the respect of their American brothers-in-arms after helping rescue dozens of paratroopers pinned down by enemy fire.

The five have been nominated for one of the highest awards given by the United States military - the Bronze Star, two of them with Vs for Valour, marking exceptional bravery.

Awarding of the American medal, which was to have been done at a ceremony along with other Anaconda veterans in Kandahar in April, has been delayed by Canadian protocol officials.

But more important to the Canadians are the gestures from their American brethren who - while nearly killing them several times over with "friendly fire" - owe many lives to their shooting skills.

"They trusted us to do our job, without question," said Master Cpl. "James," a 31-year-old native of Kingsville, Ont., who like Cpl. Bill asked that his identity not be revealed.

At one point during a series of battles, one of the Canadians was without his rifle. Enemy bullets were hitting the earth all around. Mortars were dropping in front and behind them, some within 10 metres, bracketing their position and getting closer all the time. "They really hammered us," said Bill. He tried to get to their rifles but couldn't. Finally, an American sniper tossed him his rifle and said: "Here, you know how to use this better than I do."

They held off the enemy until darkness descended and escaped.

"They were instrumental in helping us achieve our goals out there," said 1st Lieut. Justin Overbaugh, 25, of Missoula, Mont., the soldier who recommended Bill and James for Bronze Stars.

"They are professionals; they are very good at what they do; they train hard, they are very mature, they are tactically and technically proficient so when it came time to do business, they were on," he said. "If they told me I was going out right now, I'd be begging, kicking, screaming, crying for them to come with us."

Bill and James said they pulled off several shots from 2,400 metres or more.

"Shots out that far are 60 per cent skill and 40 per cent luck, or vice versa," said Bill. "Usually, it takes two or three rounds, sometimes five. "Normally, a sniper wouldn't take that many shots, but they were out so far we felt confident they couldn't tell where we were."

One morning, the two Canadians were set up overlooking a compound when Al Qaeda fighters started "pouring out of buildings like ants." Bill started shooting while James called in a mortar attack, followed by B-52, F-16 and Apache helicopter strikes.

In a separate incident, Bill and James found themselves looking up at a large dark object screaming out of the sky directly above them - a 220-kilogram American bomb.

"We hit the deck and covered our heads with our hands," said James. The bomb landed 30 metres away, nose in, and never went off.

"By the grace of God, it was a dud," said Bill. "It landed 15 metres from the B company (U.S. 101st Airborne Division) trenches. A guy got up, walked out of the trench and kicked the thing."

Capt. Paul Madej, Operation Enduring Freedom chaplain, who debriefed the Canadians, described them: "The Canadian snipers are professional, well-trained soldiers who walked into harm's way and fulfilled their mission. They represent the best and they have our respect."

With files from Associated Press


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