1 Whoa!

2 Anyone who is friends or associates themselves with muslims and arabs is a traitor to America.  You should be ashamed of yourself for helping the terrorists to win.

The only feast muslims should enjoy is their final meal before they are sent to hell.

God Bless America

3 Muslim hugging bigot.

4 Rusty,
Keep yer curry smellin' fingers away from my horse.

5

I prefer Thai Curry, it has so much more flavor. Indian Curry is exceptional as well, although it's a lot spicier (hotter).

There are quite a few family Thai places (hole in the wall kind of joints) in my hometown (Bakersfield, CA), and they are almost always exceptional. I agree "Dr. Rusty", follows along the lines of "hate the sin, love the sinner", I have made many friends in Muslims (at least on the surface, which is all I can tell), but that doesn't stop me from wishing the cult of Islam go bye bye. In fact it is because I feel such brotherly love for Muslims that I wish Islam would go away, to save them from real bigotry and hatred that is so much a part of "true" practicers of that religion.

6 Rusty,
Has it occurred to you that 99% of devote Muslims, like your friend, are reasonable people and that reconciliation is possible? There is nothing inherently evil about Islam.

7 Greg,

I've heard moderate muslims themselves say that they estimate the pro-terror muslims number as high as 30%.

8 The crucible cooks terrorists up like pop'n'fresh dough, "Christians" and "Muslims" alike.
Solution - turn off the oven.

9 30% my horse's ass.

10 30% in muslim math is 99.9999999999987%

11 30% doesn't pass the sniff test.
Given that "terrorists" are mostly men, that would mean that 60% of Muslim men, or 330,000,000 are terrorists. You're a terrorist, Carlos. Please stop. And stop with the Jesus crap. Jesus would want us to reconcile.

12 JDL, pro-terrorists and terrorists aren't the same thing.  It's reprehensible to support terrorists, but it's not a 1 to 1 equivalency of strapping a bomb to yourself  and detonating it on a bus of kids or sniping US soldiers handing out food.  If it were there'd be a lot more of those 'aid' organizations here in the US and abroad being shut down and their proprietors mysteriously disappearing to Gitmo.

13 I'm a bigot. The best curries are made by Hindus. Muslims can go to hell.

14 Good on you Rusty.

15 Oh yeah, and Curry rules.  There was a good Thai place around back home but it closed down due to lack of business.  They had it so you could choose how spicy you wanted your dish because they realized Ohians are pussies.  But alas, Cincinnatians proved to be even wussier than they had anticipated and ran crying like little babies from even the light seasoning back to that chocolate and cinamon infested gruel they think is chili (pay extra for meat in the chili? WTF OHIO).

16 "Anyone who is friends or associates themselves with muslims and arabs is a traitor to America."

<img src="http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2005/04/25/image690875x.jpg">

17

Ah, the old "I don't hate ____! I have ____ friends!" routine. Pfft.

18 I think what you might be trying to say is: "I'm not a bigot. Some of my best friends are (fill in the blank with whichever historical group you don't like but personal friendship has made inconvenient)."

19 Greg:
 
You pulled that 99% figure out of your ass. That seems to be where you get most of your opinions.
 
Islam most certainly is inherently evil, both in word and deed. Genocide, murder, slavery, rape, theft and xenophobia are all evil acts. All are commanded by islam.
 
Not all muslims buy into their religion's commandments. Indonesian muslims tend to be heretics, because most of them don't choose to practice any of those things. They are despised by Middle Eastern muslims for this.
 
All the evils of islam can be lain at the feet of flea-bitten Muhammad and the debased Arab culture that spawned him.
 
The only two things you know about islam are jack and shit.

20 Ranba Ral:
 
I have to disagree with you on this one. Pro-terrorists manifestly are terrorists. The vermin who provide funds, shelter, planning, "spritual" guidance, and solidarity for terrorist acts are every bit as guilty as the scum who physically carry out the acts. According to your argument, Osama Bin Laden isn't a terrorist, because he's too much of a pussy to carry out the acts he finances himself.

21 Bill Bradford:
 
You're such an obvious troll that it's a wonder why you bother at all. Only idiots are trolls, so I guess that explains it.

22 Ah, its the good professor, and the angryflower, and the moonbat, out on Halloween. My, oh, my, who woulda thunk it?

23 Professor Van Nostrum:
 
What he was saying, was not to confuse the foul religion of islam with muslims. Islam is undeniably evil, not all muslims are.
 
Only real bigots use the "some of my best friends are..." slander. Leftists use this tired old ploy to stifle debate by accusing others of racism and bigotry. It only works on morons, which is why only morons employ it.
 
Admit it. You're bigoted against anybody who thinks differently than you do. Anybody who thinks sensibly.

24 Only a academic meathead is stupid enough to trust a muslim. The same meatheads that have ill advised America for years. Where's Pol Pot when you need him.

25 Jeff has:"Genocide, murder, slavery, rape, theft and xenophobia are all evil acts. All are commanded by islam."

I'm no theologian, but I'll bet you're full of shit. Xenophobia? Who are you to squawk? I'm familiar with the list and it's not peculiar to Islam.

26 Von Nostril: I figured you would show up on halloween. Friggin jerk.

27 It takes a pretentious twit to comment on the internet with Professor before his name, as if that gives a meathead credibility. Sorry, professor, just the opposite is true. What a turd you are.

28 The meatheads are everywhere.

29 Jeff,

Exactly!! You've lived in Indonesia so you know. Almost all my Muslim friends here are Sufis and are more into mysticism, paranormalism and have a more hedonistic outlook than the Islamists. It's Islamic followers that I hate and are my enemies and I of them. Unless someone has lived in a Muslim country you won't notice the differentiation between the two and usually lump all Muslims together. My Muslim friends want the Islamists dead because they are threat to their beliefs and lifestyle. If they oppose the Islamists then they are branded apostates and either persecuted or killed. When I call for death to all the cube facing pagan moon god worshiping idiots, I'm talking about the Islamists. Most of my Muslim friends laugh at Islamists just like we do, don't pray five times a day, drink Bintang beer, go to nightclubs to dance, wear swimsuits at the beach or swimming pool (as opposed to Islamists (women)which go fully clothed), some even eat pork satay in Bali, and generally want to be free. Indonesia may be the most populous Muslim nation in the world but only because those born into Muslim families didn't have a choice of which religion to follow. They were automatically Muslims. Most Muslims here are only Muslim on their ID cards and as Jeff said, they are considered heretics by Islamists in the Middle East. The problem here is the Islamist population is small but vocal and intimidating to the poorly educated population. They threaten those who don't believe in radical Islam and will kill them to make a point. As you saw in recent polls, 1 in 5 side with JI. Why? Two possibilities. One is that people are being intimidated by the radicals and two, the demographics of the area where they polls were taken. If most of the poll was taken in West Java then the result will be higher for Islamists. West Java strongly associates itself with Islam. Same for West Sumatera and South Sulawesi. If the poll was taken where I live in North Sulawesi, 0% would support JI and Islamists.There are more Hindus, Buddhists and Confucianists here than Muslims.

30 Greg - I'll take BWI's opinion over yours any day of the week. He's usually 100% dead spot on.
 
You - it all depends on how smooth the wall and how moist the turd you're flinging is...
 
Dance Monkey Dance!!!

31 Big White: Thanks for the education.

32 A muslim that drinks beer can't be all bad. Just mostly so.

33 Since all Muslims are evil terrorists than logically it would follow that all Americans are like;

Choose one from the following:

John "stuck in Iraq" Kerry
George "dumb as a stump" Bush
Karl "evil genius' Rove
Barbara "nose bigger than her brain" Streisand
Fred "God hates everyone but the Phelps family" Phelps
The Democratic Party
The Republican Party
NOW
ACLU
Right to Life
Hell's Angel's
Mother's Against Drunk Driving
PETA
NRA
NEA
etc., ect, ect, ....

My point. I hate terrorists, I don't particularly trust Islam but I don't think all Muslims are the same. Just like I don't think all Consevatives, or Democrats or what ever group you associate with are the same. That kind of sloppy thinking is what got us into this war in the first place. If those in charge of our security 30 years ago had done what they should have we wouldn't be fighting about this now.

This time it's all Former Pres. Carter's fault.

34 The people in that hell-hole part of the world have shown what kind of animals they are, torturing, beheading and blowing up their own kind. We need to weed out that particular blood-line from modern society. And Panang curry is hard to beat .... trick or treat! 

35 Nothing wrong with "us" getting into this war. The problem was not leaving when we completed our business.
 
 

36 But Max, George Bush sez we haven't completed our business ... and probably won't for years. So that makes your first statement null and void.

37
Given that "terrorists" are mostly men, that would mean that 60% of Muslim men, or 330,000,000 are terrorists.

He didn't say 30% of muslims were terrorists, he said 30% of muslims were PRO-terrorist.  Reading comprehension is always a good thing.

And stop with the Jesus crap. Jesus would want us to reconcile.

As far as "Jesusland", that's what you Libs call us.  Now you don't like it because we embrace it. LOL.

38

Comrade Jihad Greg wrote:

"Jeff has:"Genocide, murder, slavery, rape, theft and xenophobia are all evil acts. All are commanded by islam."

I'm no theologian, but I'll bet you're full of shit. Xenophobia? Who are you to squawk? I'm familiar with the list and it's not peculiar to Islam."

Pay up, asshole. The only religion that commands its followers to commit the atrocities I listed is islam. By all means, show me the Christian commands to do so. We both know it's Christians that you hate, so you don't need to look for similar commands in other religions. (They don't exist outside of the religion of peace.) Not only is the Bible free of such commands, but you will never find a Church that preaches those things. Not ever.

You will never find a mosque that doesn't preach those things. Not ever.

There's nothing xenophobic about detesting the crimes of islam. I suggest you learn the definition of "xenophobia." It has nothing to do with religion.

 

 

 

 

 

39

Big White Infidel:

Thank you. I get tired of explaining the difference between nominal muslims and real ones.

I once met a very well informed guy on Jihad Watch who was a Minister in Manado. The two of us educated some sycophant who believed everything Spencer and his dim-witted editors wrote, including their idiotic situational assessments and policy suggestions. (Spencer knows islam inside and out, but he's hopeless when it comes to applying that knowlege to the world stage, and his editors are just plain stupid.) It had to be you. Am I right?

40 Jeff, that's my brother Stan

41

Here's an article from this week's Tempo Magazine here in Indonesia

Cover Story

Pleasing
God and Man

A number of kiai are propagating Islam in unique ways. Sufi approaches
have made them more flexible.

SLOWLY
but surely, in the field of religious propagation, those propagators who choose
the method of da’wah bil hal or “propagating the faith through concrete
action,” are increasingly drawing public attention. They are offering a
different approach. In general, they reject the old approach, namely the usual
black-and-white answers offered by Islamic jurisprudence and legal theory. They
have relied more on approaches that are Sufi, supernatural and sometimes may
seem a bit mystical—which do not involve any questionable mystical practices.
If they appear to be a bit strange, it is only a consequence of the approach
they have adopted. More importantly, these religious propagators have preferred
to take concrete action, working directly to treat social ills, usually far
from the spotlights and television cameras.

Muhammad
Sutanto is one of them.

This
follower of the Nahdlatul Ulama organization is unique. In Semarang, where he is better known as Gus
Tanto, he sermonizes in a circle usually avoided by the faithful, but
well-attended by hoodlums and small-time criminals. According to those who know
him, this young kiai (preacher) is said to have powers of invincibility. People
close to him claim that he can boil an egg and cook rice just by placing a pot
of rice and eggs on his head.

He made
his way into their world after passing a tough test. In a fight with the
hoodlums, he reportedly displayed his powers. A knife could not even scratch
his skin, and sword strokes only made his hair glow. The thugs were amazed,
then obediently began studying religion with him.

Is it
true he has such powers? God only knows. For sure, the Istighfar (place for
God’s forgiveness) School, which he founded, is widely known as the School for
Thugs. Here, the long-haired kiai does not teach Islamic legal theory or Arabic
grammar. He teaches the concept of tauhid or Islamic monotheism. He calls it a
healing of the heart.

Not
surprisingly, Gus Tanto has no problem with his students’ tattoos. He does not
ask them to have them removed. The important thing is that they are willing to
leave the world of darkness behind. During the month of fasting, he also did
not make an issue of his neighbor’s food stall, which remained open right in
front of his school.

This
unorthodox kiai even criticizes one popular religious precept, namely, that
people who fast feel that they should be respected. Gus Tanto, in fact, feels
that we should respect those who are not fasting, for the temptation that
presents itself and of which must be overcome.

There are
also special kiai who propagate the faith in the underworld. One example is
Khoiron Syu’aib, who propagates the faith in a red-light area in Bangunsari, Surabaya. He believes
that in their heart of hearts, the prostitutes and pimps still have the will to
do good. He understands that the prostitutes are forced to do their trade
because of economic pressure.

He holds
study sessions in the brothels. Sometimes he risks clashing with the pimps.
Khoiron is always trying to ‘civilize’ them. Right in front of his house, a
number of men living in the complex spend all day gambling with cards. He
leaves them alone, hoping they would be prodded into changing their minds on
seeing their children study religion near their gambling spot.

In
Parung, West Java, Habib Saggaf Bin Mahdi Bin
Syeikh Abu Bakar is an amazing example of philanthropy. He propagates the faith
through education by providing free schooling for the poor and the destitute at
his boarding school. To fund the education of the thousands of students, he
uses the proceeds from his bakery business, recycling trash, and farming.
“Wealth is only a trust from God. They really need to get an education,” he
said.

Another
unique concept of religious propagation comes from Yusuf Mansur, who often
appears on television. He focuses on the theme of voluntary charity as a form
of investment. “This is the way to overcome a life of constricted means,” he
said. He often quotes the verse from the Qur’an on encouraging mankind to set
aside a part of their wealth to be spent in God’s way. In this way, they will
be blessed with a better life and additional provision.

Kiai
Husein Muhammad from Cirebon, West
Java, also has a unique standing. Despite being raised in the
patriarchal traditions of the Islamic boarding school and classical religious
texts, Husein tries to introduce gender equality. By quoting from some of
Islam’s classic scholarly texts, he shows that men and women are equal. Just
like Amina Wadud in the United
States, he believes a woman may lead a group
prayer.

There are
also a large number of kiai from the Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) organization who have
unusual and unorthodox ideas. Perhaps the ways of these kiai are difficult to
understand in a rational way. Sociologically, however, NU followers believe in
them, some even being familiar with them.

In the
past, there was the late Kiai Hamim Djazuli from Kediri,
East Java. This kiai, better known as Gus
Miek, would drink dark beer in Surabaya
nightclubs. The beer was not an end, but a means to approach the night workers
and celebrities whose lives were far from spiritual thoughts. It worked. The
artists, celebrities, and night workers began coming to Gus Miek to share their
problems. Along with thousands of others, they would often attend the Qur’an
reading sessions he led. The study sessions continue to this day, even though
Gus Miek himself died 13 years ago.

Then
there is the story of Gus Nuril, a former commander of the force who was ready
to fight and die to defend former President Abdurrahman Wahid (better known as
Gus Dur). Gus Nuril tells the story of how one day he met a mysterious man who
introduced himself as Sheikh Yakub, then disappeared.

For two
years, he tried to discover the identity of that sheikh. One day, he
unintentionally opened an old text from NU circles. There he found out that
Sheikh Yakub was the father-in-law of Kiai Hasyim Asy’ari. So this means that
he was the great-grandfather of former Indonesian President Abdurrahman Wahid.
Sheikh Yakub had died decades ago! This spiritual encounter changed his life.
He felt emotionally attached to this ancestor. “That is why I am a strong
supporter of Gus Dur,” he said. Like the others, people often consult with Gus
Nuril regarding their problems.

Former
government officials, especially those who used to be close with the Suharto
family, were undoubtedly familiar with the figure of Mbah Lim, whose real name
is Kiai Muslim Rifa’i Imampura, from Klaten, Central Java.
The words of this kiai were difficult to understand, and only his assistant
could fully comprehend them. Nevertheless, local government officials,
including those from Jakarta,
still visit him to this day to ask for his spiritual advice.

It is
precisely these unusual habits which have raised the visibility of these kiai.
People come just to ask questions or to stay over to find knowledge and inner
peace.

Quraish
Shihab, an expert in the exegesis of the Qur’an, said that some ulama or
religious teachers still believe in the supernatural. According to him,
however, not all supernatural things are gifts bestowed by God to honor
mankind.

Indeed,
God only gives this karamah (honor) to his faithful and obedient servants.
“However, there is also ihanah (disgrace) which is given to those who deviate
from God’s teachings,” he said.

NU
followers are not the only ones who believe in supernatural occurrences. Even
Abdul Munir Mulkan, whose background is with the Muhammadiyah organization,
recognizes it. He himself once experienced something unusual. One day during
his youth, he was with a kiai in Lampung, who was invited to a place some 30
kilometers away. “If we travel there by bicycle, it should take about an hour,”
he said. They started out at 6am, and should have arrived there at 7am. But
when they arrived there, the clock still showed 6am. After this strange
occurrence, he consulted a kiai whom he knew. The kiai just kept smiling. “I have
not received an explanation which is logically acceptable. But that is what
really happened.”

According
to Munir Mulkan, who is an observer of tasawuf, the Sufi approach makes them
more flexible when it comes to dealing with people. They do not have a strict
orientation to Islamic juristic reasoning. “They feel that by serving God,
there will be an opportunity to make society better.” This differs from the
scholars of Islamic law, who usually see things in black and white and limit
socializing. “This is because they believe that hanging out with vague people
is the same as vagueness itself,” said Munir Mulkan.

Whatever
the approach taken, all of these kiai have a role to play. We are thankful that
there are religious propagators who work though da’wah bil hal—touching the
hearts of people, then use an open mind to find concrete solutions to life’s
problems. The question is whether we need people who choose to please God by
propagating religion in a manner that is pleasing to the people.

Nugroho
Dewanto, Suseno, Adek Media Roza

Just for your information the NU is the largest Islamic organization in Indonesia with over 40 million followers.

42 Refferring to:"Genocide, murder, slavery, rape, theft and xenophobia are all evil acts. All are commanded by islam."

Jeff has: "You will never find a mosque that doesn't preach those things. Not ever."

You're full of shit, Jeff.

43 Hey quit stealing the name Max Power jackass. Only I can use it.

44 Ah gregturd, you don't disappoint! I can never make half as good a case
as you do to show why you should be taken out and hanged from an
overpass for being a piece of shit dhimmi traitor. Does your muslim
boyfriend let you dress up like a goat as reward for being such a good
little bitch?

45 So Jeff, by your line of thinking if you buy Petrol or pay taxes (some of that money goes to purchasing middle east oil for government use, and some of it goes to the middle east in huge aid packets) then we're ALL terrorists since some of that trickles to the badguys?

I don't think going "well, I support the tactic" but then not actively contributing anything to it makes a person just as bad as the terrorists; just an idiot.  You may also inadvertantly do a few of those things without realizing it (like my financing example above).  Providing leadership and planning (Osama and Al Sadr) should get you ganked for terrorist activities. 

Spiritual support would depend on how far that starts to go into a leadership role since any nutjob could take the words of any religious leader and twist them to be spiritual support for violence.  If a Christian priest gives a sermon on the differences between the Old Testement and New, quoting Leviticus 20:13 as an example on how the Old Testament is less tolerant, then one of their flock goes and blows up a gay bar does it then make it exactly the same as that priest did that?  I think not.  Now if that same priest used that same passage in a sermon that was intended to get his churchmembers to kill homosexuals then he is at least guilty of conspiracy to commit those murders; which is basically what Osama and Sadr do on the spiritual end of things.

46 Greg the Goat. I think that about descibes him, Maxie. Cross animal dresser he is. A queer cross animal dresser being serviced by a misogynist.

47 To the author of Comment 45 above. You are one sick excuse making turd. They don't equate and piss on mohammed who started your gutter religion.

48 Von Nostro,

I'm not a bigot, some of my best friends are "Progressive idiots who think Chomsky has something useful to say".

QED

49 Greyrooster,



Seriously try finding a new meme.   That 'you disagreed with something
I think, even if its only on a small detail, so you're a muslim and subhuman' copypasta is
just as repetative and moronic as the KosKids' and gets a little old. 
I mean, hell, my buddy's wife's class of 'developmentally challenged'
13 year olds sling more inventive, intelligent, and relevant insults at
each other.

50 I tend to shotgun my emotions, so I am quite capable of saying something kneejerk.

Maybe we need to give this a little thought? I am oppossed to Violent Jihadi's, and those who supply them, or encourage them. I also don't care for Tim McVeigh or any who cheer his crime.

We know McVeigh is an exception, where Jihad is the Islamic rule. Even Greg must have stuck his nose into a Quran, or the Hadith.

We also know that Wafa Sultan, Nonie Darwish, Walid Shoebat and others like them, show that the violence is offensive to at least some Muslims. I belive the three named changed faiths, but they started as Muslims. They could see, and react to forces working indside their prior religion.

Michelle Leslie is a muslim model in Australia. She has taken heat from Muslim orthodoxy regarding her swimsuit/underwear poses. I don't think she likes radicals either.

Eva Roslan is another model
"She started modelling at 16, after getting permission from her Muslim parents. I actually did ask my parents because it was important that they approved, Roslan says."
"Roslan say she is very OK with swimwear and underwear and her father is OK with that, too. He understands that a model has a job, that you are being paid to work and that the things you wear, that is your job."

And a guy would have to be dead not to appreciate Yasmeen Ghauri !!!

"The father of supermodel Yasmeen Ghauri, who was born in Canada in 1971, also disapproved of her profession. Moin Ghauri is a former imam of the Islamic community of Quebec."
"Yasmeen Ghauri has said she tried to become a devout Muslim, particularly after she once visited Saudi Arabia, where women are not allowed to drive or show any flesh. I thought, ‘OK, OK, I’m going to be really religious, I’m going to cut off school, I’m going to cover my head and everything.’ Then I woke up and said: ‘This is ridiculous, I haven’t gone to hell.’ "

So if I believe (which I do ...) that most Muslims are to entrenched in the idea of Jihad, for us to avoid a long global war with them, that doesn't mean I believe they are all out to destroy western culture, or spread violence.

How exactly would that help Yasmeen?

Guys, check the coolant in your radiator, then see what I mean for yourselves. Its not p-orn so don't worry.

http://www.yasmeen-ghauri.com/talk/articles/model-muslims/

Click on 'walls'

Consider it cultural research. Then plot Jihadist destruction, as we must...

USA all the way!

51

Greggie:

Every mosque on the planet instructs its followers that jihad is a muslim's "holy" duty, and that's a fact.

Who's really full of shit?

Produce an imam who disagrees with me. While you're at it, produce a leftist with a functioning brain, an honest Marxist, and a democrat who puts his country ahead of his wretched party.

It must be hard to breathe with your head wedged so far up your ass.

52

Ranbal Wrote:

"So Jeff, by your line of thinking if you buy Petrol or pay taxes (some of that money goes to purchasing middle east oil for government use, and some of it goes to the middle east in huge aid packets) then we're ALL terrorists since some of that trickles to the badguys?"

This paragraph is nonsensical. It doesn't reflect my statement in any way, shape or form. It doesn't even qualify as sophistry. I do not buy gasoline to aid terrorists. There is absolutely no equivalence between me and someone who deliberately aids terrorists by funding, arming, sheltering, mentoring, training, cheeerleading, and praising them. To claim otherwise is just plain stupid.

Knowingly and deliberately supporting the tactic of terrorism most certainly is just as bad as carrying out the act. Both the perpetrator and the supporter are working towards the same goal.

Spiritual support of terrorists means supporting their terrorist acts and using islam to justify them, and to command that they be carried out. Giving a sermon that is misinterpreted by a terrorist is not the same as supporting a terrorist. Your silly analogy with Christianity was both predictable and specious.

I need to educate you about Leviticus as well. Christian bashers always misinterpret what is written there. The book of Leviticus describes daily life in the long extinct tribe of Leviticus. The social practices it described did not then, or at any other time since then, apply to any other group outside of the former tribes of Israel. It was never meant as a commandment for others to kill homosexuals, and it is not interpreted as such by any Church on the planet.

Your analogy is specious (again.)

Islam does command that homosexuals be killed, and that is an islamic tradition that has been practiced since the cult was spawned 1400 years ago.

Your anti-Christian bigotry is misplaced, and based on ignorance. Christian bashing always is.

53 Ranbal is just another example of you can take these animals off their camels and teach them to read and write to no avail. They are still backward shits. Only difference is we trained them to use western technology. Which as it turns out was mistake. Should have left them eating grasshoppers cooking on camel dung fires. OUTLAW ISLAM. Islam should not be a part of civilized society.

54 Jeff, try reading this one.  I even bolded my points to reduce what I think is the problem we're having here.  You never qualified point 1 with deliberately funded in your earlier post.  After re-reading your post I can see that it was implied.

The general point of the entire post was that without making more refined stated distinctions someone could twist your definition as stated to say just about anyone is a terrorist. I'm sorry that I presumed you'd pick up that implied point.  Actually, after re-reading it I can see how you didn't catch that.  I don't know how those other points are specious within that context.  I also picked what I saw to be as the biggies (leadership/spiritual support) in your definition to show that Osama would be classified as a terrorist my definition despite your earlier assertion otherwise.

"I do not buy gasoline to aid terrorists. There is absolutely no
equivalence between me and someone who deliberately aids terrorists" 
Which was my aimed for point in that paragraph and part of the next. (see: "You may also inadvertantly do a few of those things without realizing it"; meaning intent and knowledge matters, 'you' being collective)

"Spiritual support of terrorists means supporting their terrorist acts
and using islam to justify them, and to command that they be carried
out."

That's funny because this is what I was getting at with the spiritual support as leadership point.  Notice where I said "Osama and Sadr"?  Should I have listed the whole bunch of them to illustrate the point? Should I have gone even further and listed the major leaders of other religious groups, like the Pope, and how this isn't the case with them?

A lone nutter using his own screwed up take on what his religion's leadership says is still spiritual support in his own mind if not in yours.  You'd better keep this point (italicized underlined and bolded so nobody misses what I'm referring to) in mind as it is extrapolated by many on the left to mean "if a person quotes a religious souce from religion X for their course of actions then all religion X uses this as spiritual support for this action".  A position you are seemingly ascribing to me with the biggot and bashing comment because I dared use a hypothetical based on Christianity (more on that next paragraph).  This is line of thinking is how they get to things like "all christians are terrorists, because a
few of them used twisted theology as an excuse to blow up abortion
clinics 20+ years ago".  They then use this thought process as motivation to shut down public religious iconography and speech while claming church/state violations as the legal grounds.  We're only seeing it with Christianity for now.  This is a very common idea that is expressed when the issue of religion or radicalism comes up in class discussions, and you know what?  I'm usually the one defending religious expression because I believe in the constiution and think there is a difference between the lone nutter seeing support and true institutionalized support.  Many of the other young adults today don't.  I presumed that most people on the internet would think the same way as the tards in class, possibly wrongly, so I attempted illustrating what spiritual support would mean to me using a hypothetical scenario.

Thanks for the education on Leviticus, but I already knew what Leviticus says in context.  I chose it to construct a hypothetical situation (note: as in conjectural, an example to illustrate a point that is not necissarily real but could be in certain conditions) for the very reason you cite: it is often taken out of context.  I would think this would tend to increase the chances (note: chance, not actual occurance) of it being used for wrong, making the hyopthetical situation more plausible.  I would have referenced the theology and texts of other religions instead to make the hypothetical but I've never read those texts in their entirety or much about other theologies.  End result: I stuck with what I was familiar with.  I fail to see how constructing a hypothetical situation based on what I know over what I don't is bashing of and biggotry against the former, especially since I said the hypothetical preist and Christianity should not be held accountable for the hypothetical lone nutter getting it wrong.  I had the evil priest be Christian for the same reason I had the good preist be Christian.  Did you miss all this or did you just see "Leviticus" and "homosexual" and skip down while assuming I just resorted to the meme of "Leviticus says kill gays so Christians are evil"?

"It was never meant as a commandment for others to kill homosexuals, and
it is not interpreted as such by any Church on the planet."
Thus the reason it was hypothetical scenario.

Maybe I just tried to do too much in too little space and it got jumbled.

I'm actually a bit saddened you felt you had to stoop to the level of calling me a biggot.  Until that point we had been civil to each other.

Greyrooster:  I've never even seen a cammel in anything other than a picture or a zoo. Kinda hard to otherwise since my family's been here in the States since about 1910 (Germany/Scotland) on one side and the late 1600's (England/Ireland/Scotland) on the other.  Anyone else ever notice Rooster has this obsession with cammels?  Maybe he's projecting some sort of twisted Freudian desire. /end trollbaiting

55 Please don't get Rambo all riled up! We just don't have enough band-width for another novel.

56 Ranba Ral:
 
A person who patronizes a business such as a gas station that may have secret ties to terrorism is not funding terrorism. If the business provides money to the terrorist organization, the business is guiltyof funding terrorism. Not the consumer. Your point is specious.
 
The problem we're having here is that you claimed that there is no equivalency between pro terrorists and terrorists--basically, between the people who want terrorism to be committed and the people who physically commit it. There most certainly is an equivalence. Both parties are equally responsible, as Osama Bin Laden effectively proves.
 
Your comment about spiritual support is convoluted and bizzare. A "lone nutter" cant be equated with an imam who orders his followers to commit acts of terrorism in the name of his religion. Just who do you assume the "lone nutter" is providing spiritual support for? Your claim that he's providing it for himself is ridiculous. Spiritual support is given to others through scripture and preaching, not to one's self through violent acts.
 
Your comment about abortion clinics was predictable. The people who murdered abortion doctors and nurses did so to punish them for commiting what they rightly believe is murder, specifically infanticide. They did not do so to terrorize them or anybody else, and they were not following the commands of Christian theology or their Churches. Leftists do not hate Christianity because of abortion clinic bombings. They hate it because Christians dare to disagree with their Marxist social engineering program. They portray Christians as trying to control society because they are actually resisting leftist attempts to control every aspect of society. Leftists are not known for their brain power.
 
Listing Leviticus as a possible inspiration for a lone nutter is bigotry. Lone nutters can draw their motivations from any source whatsoever. Singling out Christianity was a bigoted act, despite your disclaimers. Surely you know that the left uses Leviticus to try and demonize Christianity on a regular basis. The abortion clinic bombings is another of their favorites. I am thankful that you didn't bring up Timothy McViegh, who is usually next on the list.
 
I like you based on your comments on this blog, but you're wrong about terrorist supporters and the harmful nature of using Christianity in hypothetical comments about terrorism. Quite frankly, hypothetical scenarios have no place in a discussion about reality.
 
No hard feelings.

57 Please don't set Jeff off! We just don't have enough band-width for another novel.

58 Jeff, I admit my points are a bit unorganized. I'm writing these posts between classes and research for a 30+ and several 15+ page research papers.  It's also somewhat due to basing it on my experience in arguing with the moonbats, which has been a verbal argument so far.  This is the first time I've ever written any of it down, so it's very off the cuff. 

It seems from my discussions that the older leftists are just saying the point I was making about their ideas on spiritual support and past Christian executed attacks and the younger ones actually seem to believe it.  McVeigh was a terrorist, but he was agnostic, so why would I use him in the context of a Christian potentially taking terrorist action? (note: I know the left frequently IDs him as Christian, but I wasn't willing to go that far).

I guess we differ on our underlying assumption of verbal support is equivalent to the act itself based on personal history.  I have first hand experience in how one can support something verbally and not actually condone it.  Starting in grade 6 I was the constant target of physical bullying and found myself supporting the bullies verbally or ignoring their actions against others just to avoid an after-school jumping myself.  I was not the only person to do this.  This continued until halfway through grade 9, when I'd been in Civil Air Patrol long enough to be physically fit enough to fight back an win, and proud enough in myself to convince myself that it would be worth it to do so. 

Given how myself and so many others I know were cowed by just threats of a quick beating I can imagine how threats of death if you stray could affect someone, especially if it has been going on for decades (based on the advent of modern terrorism, over a millenium if you want to start at the Ridda Wars or Muhammad's campaigns).  It might also be why I support the idea of the war, even if certain aspects of how are being bungled (e.g. not popping Al Sadr and his goons), since it took a strong outside influence to give me the physical and mental power to start taking care of the problem myself.

59 Ranba Ral:
 
The verbal support you gave the bullies wasn't genuine. You didn't really support their actions, and I'm sure you actually detested them. It's not the same thing. Terrorist supporters support terrorists because they want them to succeed.

60 Last Gulp Larry:
 
I guess that last jizz swallow choked you up a bit. You're obviously afraid of my comments. Pussy.

61 If you smell like a camel and talk like a camel you're a camel jockey.