1 Esmay weeps.

2 Lucky for you guys. If Osamisdonal represented you, this site would be open to litigation by anyone with a conscience.

3 I'm glad my posting things won't get YOU in trouble     I think I'll still be careful all the same.         USA, all the way!

4

OFF TOPIC Osamabintrying

Remember this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq_Ramadan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1344-2004Sep6.html

"Ramadan is not directly involved in terrorist activities, but many of his supporters are."

I have some understanding of the distinction. For what lies behind that statement, and other reasons, he doesn't get a passing grade. I chose to link an example article that argues he isn't moderate. 

Since my standard for 'moderate'  is based on how the individual feels about the institution of Sharia, I can't accept him as such. It's pretty clear he likes Sharia, he just wants to inject an acceptance of some modernity to it. He is pretty much a slick, Islamic imperialist.  I'd characterise him as the perfect example of  someone using 'taqiyya' to lower our cultural guard.

I have more links than this, but then, so do you ...

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/800naxnt.asp?pg=1

Anyway, I think it was at least a good attempt.

I've met a guy through YouTube who might, maybe be a good source, but I think he sees this through the lense of 'one way multiculturalism' so I'm not holding my breath. the only Muslim I fully accept as moderate, and that I've exchanged any information with, doesn't want to take a public stand. I find that very discouraging.

USA, all the way!

5

Cherish words while they yet have value.  Use them well.

In time, it is written, that words will fail. The Norse called that day Ragnarok, and on that final day, all that was left of good, would face all the accumulated evil of creation, in a final showdown. Surt will burn the entire world with fire ...  Only after complete devestation will a new world arise from the ashes of the old, and humanity can begin again....

Odin, ruler of the Gods, had the gift of prophecy, and knew that day he would die, killed in battle by the wolf Fenrir! But Odin does not cower, or weep, or ask for sympathy. He gathers the souls of the brave to Valhalla. At night they eat, drink, and celebrate stories of valor. During the day, they train for war, until Ragnarok, and the end of time finally comes.

Oh moderate Muslim! Where are you? We strain our ears! We listen for your voice! Do we only hear the distant howling of wolves? If so, let us celebrate, and sharpen our spears, for we will allow no wolf to go unchallenged!

USA, all the way!

6 Michael:

Yeah, that guy was someone who just blipped up on the radar one day. I hadn't done any in-depth research of him, but thought if you hadn't heard of him you'd want to investigate. Anyway, you know where I stand with religion...haha. I remember reading some anthropological article once that claimed religion started like this: Around when early humans started using tools they started figuring out the relationship between action/reaction or cause/effect. When they couldn't explain the unexplainable, religion was born. Supposedly it wasn't a conscious decision, but merely their brains filling in the gaps. Sort of like how our eyes sum together vision seamlessly from our two eyes. Interesting theory. Probably offensive to anyone who is religious and doesn't believe in evolution. I'm way off subject...me finding you a moderate Muslim ain't gonna be easy! I simply don't know many Muslims in general.

7 Osama: Your theory is different than mine. Religion was invented becuase early humans were screwing all day and all night.  Nothing got done, no progress. So some guy invented religion. Told them sex was bad. Next thing you know, civilization.  They were probably a lot happier screwing all day in the jungle.

8

I've heard that theory, but I have another. Some creatures can see heat, whil others can only feel it. Spirtuality is a sensitivity issue in practical scientific terms. Now I just have to prove that theory.

My favorite explaination besides that is that human beings decided to stop letting things eat them, and embraced a heavenly parent who affirmed their status. If the wolves want to feast, let them feast on thier own bloody demise.

I've been an Atheist, and rejected it, but I don't condemn those who aren't bigoted about it. My experiences as an Atheist weren't fulfilling and I found my anchor through exploration of other philosphies. As you can see, I remain fond of the Norse traditions.

It's all about battling wolves and giants, and partying afterwards, if you over simplify it. 

God bless the intellectually honest!

USA, all the way!

9 I guess along with Christianity my other religion is our Constitutional Republic. Funny, it's said that Thor challenged Christ to personal combat once ....    Ah fun fun!              USA, all the way!

10 Darth Odie: Maybe that's why I'm a Atheist...Nobody has ever been able to convince me that sex is bad! Haha. I do remember going to church as a young boy and I never felt things were right. I always had this feeling that everyone was full of crap and didn't believe any of it for a second. Then again it was a Unitarian church, so maybe I was right!

Michael: So what made you become a Atheist and what made you get into Christianity? I've always felt fulfilled with my stance, but I've known many who aren't. Some might call it ignorance, but I feel it's very humble to admit that the human mind or consciousness isn't capable of explaining everything in the universe. I'd almost say that it would be egocentric or delusional to think you could. Just my point of view though. I have been bigoted about it sometimes, but I try not to. When it comes down to it, I don't care if you think the moon is made of cheese...just don't kill people or blow shit up if I don't believe you.

11 Osamaisanasshole:


Do you know anything about Christianiaty? Your opinions and delusions about religion are positively sophomoric. The leftist standard, without deviance.


The only deviancies you suffer from are moral, ethical, and empathic.


Don't forget to let Al Qaeda overrun Iraq. America needs to give them free reign by attacking them were they don't operate, according to you.

12

My comparative religion rant: Warning.

I was raised by an 'Atheist' and a 'Christian'. My parents left me free to believe what I wanted. My interst in prehistoric life, anthroplogy, and related theoretical material, took me past the point of accepting Noah's flood, and the official 'church' age of the planet we live on. At that point I decided that Christianity couldn't be right, if there were wrong things being taught to us in scripture.

So I plunged almost directly into association with what was mostly a bunch of Atheists with a pretty strong streak of hedonism. After all, morals were suppossed to be from God, and if I no longer believed in the Bible, then what good were the morals described there?

I think it's worth mentioning, that what happened to me, is exactly what Christian parents are afraid will happen to their children if moral influences from the Bible, are not encouraged. In short, the battle for creation science owes at least something to the fear that Darwinism promotes amoral behavior. I agree with that view from experience, though I also accept evolutionary science as accurate.  We should at least require the study of ethics.

Besides rejecting the behavior of my Atheist friends, I had experiences which I deemed to be spiritual. These led me to explore many other religions, including Nordic paganism, and Wicca. I've made friends across many religious boundries, and I'm about as unbigoted about religion as I think you can get. If you don't care how I pray, I don't care how you pray, or even if you do. I'm not a Theo-cop.

I came back into Christianity from the outside. I was one of those who bought into the ACLU version of the 'seperation clause' and I studied religion to expand on my knowledge of human behavior. It tied in with other areas of study. Anthroplogy, Sociology, Psycholgy, and Philosophy.  The ethical teaching of Jesus stood out, and I have to say that if you bother to read Jesus in context, you will see that what he is saying is inclusive. The message of forgiveness is transcendent, and it is a divine message.  So ...

I am a non-denominational Christian.  I still study Norse religion though. It fascinates me. 

I've also studied the 'seperation clause' as the ACLU works it, and I now believe the ACLU has it backwards. Free exercise is for every belief, everywhere, all the time. Even Atheism.

I have reached a breaking point with one religion though.  I have posted many times asking about moderate Muslims. I have had a few who would comment with me, but I could never get one to say that they were against substituting Sharia, for our US Constitution. That threatens free exercise for everyone.

They would cushion thier opinion with "well if the people voted for it then they should have it" but on another site, I asked a Muslim a few days ago ... How do you vote Sharia out, after it has been voted in?  He has not responded. Nor can we really expect a response. Sharia is meant to be an end result, not a changing condition subject to the democratic will of the people. In short, once you have a totalitarian system, you don't ever vote it out. Not ever.

Islam is to be spread peacefully if possible, but if that is not possible, it must be spread by the sword. This is a deep truth within Islam, and anyone who tells you different, is uneducated, or a liar. Islam must conquer, and rule, and it uses it's own faithful to do the work, and offers them paradise if they die in the cause. This is a non-negotiable state of affairs. Islam is here to be the dominant religion.

So Muslim's must convert, subdue, or kill my Christian friends, my Jewish friends, and (maybe) my Bhuddist friends. They must convert or kill (not subdue) my Nordic pagan friends, my Atheist friends, my Wiccan friends, or any of my friends who are not allowed to be Dhimmi. So pretty much all my family and friends are on a list for Islam to settle with. It doesn't matter if we like Darwin, or Creation science, we're on the same list. That is a higher priority than anything else we face as a society. We need to realize that.

So I'm OK with other religions as a rule ... but ...

Islam is the most different kind of religion I've ever seen. I feel that in my life, I've seen evil close up enough to recognize it. Islam wasn't hijacked by radicals! The fundamentalists are cleaning house! Now Muslims who don't tow the fundamentalist islamic line are apostates!   I don't think all Muslim's are evil, but I'll probably offend all Muslim's when I say that Islam, is a force for evil.

I stared into the abyss, and Islam stared back. I'm hitting a wall. A breaking point. The Gjallerhorn is sounding!  Naglfar has sailed. Is your spear sharp, and close at hand?

Anyway, yep, I was an Atheist, but it didn't work out. My search for a moderate Muslim is my effort at turning the other cheek.

USA, all the way!

13

osamabinhiding,   "sex is bad"  

Well it can be, it really can be.  I've seen some of my past friends cast off the last evenings intimacy like a pair of old dirty socks. I've seen them cheat on their so called girl friends. I've seen them lie about really being in love with a girl till she leaves the room. "Oh she's got a pretty face but ..."!

I've watched them steal each others women, and I've watched them pass fragile disfunctional women around the room, legally, because it was consensual. But a hurt and vulnerable human being, desperate for affirmation from others, may not be the best person to be giving consent.  I could go on ...

Yeah, sex can be bad.

I think it would serve you well to avoid those kind of casual generalizations about religious ethics. 

                            Rant over ... USA, all the way!       

14 Michael, concerning your "sex is bad" post:

I'd say almost everything you listed as bad had more to do with lying, disrespect, manipulation, disconnection, etc. I wouldn't equate those with sex. People can do some pretty messed up things, wether they are religious or not. I'll use myself as an example...I've never done any of the things you said you've witnessed, yet religion had nothing to do with it. It was entirely how I was brought up and the values instilled by my parents. Also, by sex I didn't mean going around humping everything in sight. I meant sex in general, and how premarital sex is viewed by many faiths.

As far as the other posting, it's interesting to hear about your journey. Trust me, Islam scares the shit out of me too. The problem is, trying to stamp out any religion usually just motivates them more. It's like playing whack-a-mole. I certainly don't have any solutions...the future looks grim to me.

15 A lot of what those people did, was done to get the sex.           
                        USA, all the way!

16 "was done to get the sex."

Hehehe, but I wasn't referring to how someone ends up having it. Of course you could connect something to anything if you want to. I'm talking about the act itself.

17 Then be fruitful and multiply, if you will excuse the reference.    USA, all the way!

18 On that note, I plan to! I'm getting married this summer and we will probably have a critter within the next 2 years.

19 Nice site!

20 Very good work!